[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Israel will not demand Hizbollah disarm > > Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:46 AM ET > > JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel will not demand the immediate disarming of > Hizbollah as part of a deal to end the current fighting in Lebanon, a > senior Israeli foreign ministry official said on Saturday. > > Israel's stance could make it easier to reach an agreement with major > powers and the Lebanese government on the deployment of a peacekeeping > force in south Lebanon. > > Read the rest at: > http://tinyurl.com/gwac7 > Israel effort alone, on the political arena, to disarm Hizbalah is not going to do it, a broader pressure is lacking at this phase. IMO, we are setting ourselves to more problems in the future as Iran will push the bottoms again and will escalate the situation when ever Iran has interest to do so. I hope to be wrong. Currently it looks like the France and Lebanon will be part of peacekeeping , hopefully they will do a better job than UN, that is if UN forces ever did something beside watching Hizbalah preparing for war. --- ynetnews: France, Lebanon to deploy to border with Israel Prime Minister Ehud Olmert meets with US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice at his Jerusalem residence Saturday night; Rice reveals initial plans for international peacekeeping force: France, Lebanese army to take part, and will also guard Syria-Lebanon border. Leaders agree diplomatic agreement dependant on release of kidnapped soldiers Ronny Sofer France and the Lebanese army will take part in the multinational peacekeeping force expected to take position along the southern Lebanese border, it was revealed following a meeting between US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in Jerusalem. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3283247,00.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
"Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of Canaanthe people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they are our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and sinister word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be a book for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. It is the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. Their enemies were not human: They were prey." http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of Canaan the > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they are > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and sinister > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be a book > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. It is > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. Their > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 I'm sorry, but it's just plain silly to pull some negative-sounding bit out of a scripture written thousands of years ago, then turn around and point fingers at the people whose scripture it is and sneer, See? See? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
This is humeristic column, bob, but it seems that you missed that point, why I'm not surprised ? cut and and paste and put things out of context seems to be the tactic for you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of Canaan the > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they are > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and sinister > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be a book > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. It is > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. Their > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "larry.potter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This is humeristic column, bob, but it seems that you missed that > point, why I'm not surprised ? > > cut and and paste and put things out of context seems to be the > tactic for you. > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of Canaan > the > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they > are > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and sinister > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be a > book > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. It > is > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. Their > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 Hi Larry, After reading Bob's insights about Israel, the Bible,and the Jews, I thought I'd share an article written by Dennis Prager. He addresses how many Jews would react to Bob's apparent beliefs. Great timing Bob, I'm sure the Seattle Jewish Community will be thrilled to read your in-depth analysis of the value of the old testament to society. Bob, do us a favor and stick to something you know about- Bevan: On Jan. 21 in Paris, a gang of Muslims intent on kidnapping Jews kidnapped 23-year-old Ilan Halimi. Reciting verses from the Koran in phone conversations demanding money from the family, they ultimately rejected the money and tortured Halimi to death. They kept him naked for weeks while they cut him up and finally poured flammable liquid over his skin and burned him alive. When Jews read this story, they see themselves as Halimi and think that such a thing could happen to them somewhere in the world today and somewhere in the world at any time in the past. If you want to understand how Jews think and behave, you must first understand how large antisemitism and the Holocaust loom in the psyche, emotions and minds of the vast majority of Jews. It could not be otherwise. While ethnic, racial, religious and national hatreds are as old as mankind, none has been as universal and as deep as hatred of Jews. Jew-hatred was given the name "anti-Semitism" only in 1879 by a German anti-Semite named Wilhelm Marr. The term is entirely misleading since it has nothing to do with "Semites." Jews may be Semites, but so are Arabs, and antisemitism never meant hatred of Arabs, only of Jews. Jew-hatred or antisemitism has been so deep that tens of millions of people have equated the Jews with the devil and many more have desired that the Jews be erased from the Earth. Such an attempt was made only one generation ago in what is called the Holocaust (or Shoah, the Hebrew term). This was the German Nazi attempt to murder every Jewish man, woman and child, which resulted in the murder of two out of every three Jews in Europe. To give an idea of how many Jews have been murdered for being Jews, all one needs to do is look at population statistics. Scholars estimate the population of the Roman Empire at about 60 million at the time of Jesus. According to the dean of Jewish historians, Professor Salo Baron, at that time Jews comprised about 10 percent of the population. That means that 2,000 years ago there were about 6 million Jews. It is also estimated that at that time, the world's population was about 200 million. Today the world's population is over 6 billion. While the world's population is about 30 times larger than 2,000 years ago, the Jewish population has barely doubled. Had Jews been left alone to procreate at the same rate as others, there would be about 180 million Jews in the world today. Moreover, even the 6 million number for the Roman empire represented a huge loss of population due to extensive killing of Jews in the 12 centuries from their inception. It is true that Jewish population losses have been also due to assimilation, but this assimilation was itself overwhelmingly a result of persecution -- forced conversions, desire to lead a far safer life as part of the majority culture, etc. In fact, because of the Holocaust, there are fewer Jews today than there were 100 years ago. One can now understand why the Passover Haggadah -- the special prayer book for the Passover Seder meal, first written about 2,000 years ago -- contains this famous statement: "In every generation there are those who rise against us to annihilate us . . . " As a result, Jews are probably the most insecure group in the world. This may come as a surprise to most non-Jews since Jews are widely regarded as particularly powerful. But Jews' power and Jews' insecurity are not mutually contradictory. In fact, Jews' power derives in large measure from their insecurity. The stronger the Jews' influence,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/weekinreview/30kifner.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante wrote: > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of Canaan > the > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they are > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and sinister > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be a > book > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. It is > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. Their > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > > I'm sorry, but it's just plain silly to pull some > negative-sounding bit out of a scripture written > thousands of years ago, then turn around and point > fingers at the people whose scripture it is and > sneer, See? See? > The point I was making was that things have not changed over the course of thousands of years -- "a single tribe at war with everyone around it." As far as your claim that this is scripture belonging only to Jews, that's not true, as the Book of Numbers is part of both Christian and Islamic tradition. If you don't like the tone of Numbers 13, you probably will also not like Numbers 31, in which Moses tells his soldiers to kill everybody in an enemy tribe, except virgin girls: http://www.sacred-texts.com/wmn/wb/wb33.htm 17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man keep alive for yourselves. The modern exception, of course, is that of the hundreds of innocent civilians that Israel is slaughtering in Lebanon, there are undoubtedly also many virgin girls. I'm not saying that Jews are worse than anybody else, but they are certainly no better, and that has always been the case. In order to keep from having to kill their neighbors in order to enforce their occupation of Palestine, which Arabs have been trying to reverse since day one, the Jews should leave Palestine and live happily elsewhere. If they don't, the numerical superiority and increasing sophistication of the Arab/Muslim world will sooner and later vacate Palestine on terms not favorable to the occupiers. Anybody who does not see this train wreck coming (actually, the train wreck has been in progress for some time) is just blinded by Zionist propaganda. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
Hi sgrayatlarge , Thank you for a insightful post! L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "larry.potter" > wrote: > > > > This is humeristic column, bob, but it seems that you missed that > > point, why I'm not surprised ? > > > > cut and and paste and put things out of context seems to be the > > tactic for you. > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > > wrote: > > > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of > Canaan > > the > > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they > > are > > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and > sinister > > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be > a > > book > > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. > It > > is > > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. Their > > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > > Hi Larry, > > After reading Bob's insights about Israel, the Bible,and the Jews, I > thought I'd share an article written by Dennis Prager. He addresses > how many Jews would react to Bob's apparent beliefs. Great timing > Bob, I'm sure the Seattle Jewish Community will be thrilled to read > your in-depth analysis of the value of the old testament to society. > Bob, do us a favor and stick to something you know about- Bevan: > > On Jan. 21 in Paris, a gang of Muslims intent on kidnapping Jews > kidnapped 23-year-old Ilan Halimi. Reciting verses from the Koran in > phone conversations demanding money from the family, they ultimately > rejected the money and tortured Halimi to death. They kept him naked > for weeks while they cut him up and finally poured flammable liquid > over his skin and burned him alive. > When Jews read this story, they see themselves as Halimi and think > that such a thing could happen to them somewhere in the world today > and somewhere in the world at any time in the past. > > If you want to understand how Jews think and behave, you must first > understand how large antisemitism and the Holocaust loom in the > psyche, emotions and minds of the vast majority of Jews. > > It could not be otherwise. > > While ethnic, racial, religious and national hatreds are as old as > mankind, none has been as universal and as deep as hatred of Jews. > > Jew-hatred was given the name "anti-Semitism" only in 1879 by a > German anti-Semite named Wilhelm Marr. The term is entirely > misleading since it has nothing to do with "Semites." Jews may be > Semites, but so are Arabs, and antisemitism never meant hatred of > Arabs, only of Jews. > > Jew-hatred or antisemitism has been so deep that tens of millions of > people have equated the Jews with the devil and many more have > desired that the Jews be erased from the Earth. Such an attempt was > made only one generation ago in what is called the Holocaust (or > Shoah, the Hebrew term). This was the German Nazi attempt to murder > every Jewish man, woman and child, which resulted in the murder of > two out of every three Jews in Europe. > > To give an idea of how many Jews have been murdered for being Jews, > all one needs to do is look at population statistics. Scholars > estimate the population of the Roman Empire at about 60 million at > the time of Jesus. According to the dean of Jewish historians, > Professor Salo Baron, at that time Jews comprised about 10 percent > of the population. That means that 2,000 years ago there were about > 6 million Jews. It is also estimated that at that time, the world's > population was about 200 million. > > Today the world's population is over 6 billion. While the world's > population is about 30 times larger than 2,000 years ago, the Jewish > population has barely doubled. Had Jews been left alone to procreate > at the same rate as others, there would be about 180 million Jews in > the world today. Moreover, even the 6 million number for the Roman > empire represented a huge loss of population due to extensive > killing of Jews in the 12 centuries from their inception. > > It is true that Jewish population losses have been also due to > assimilation, but this assimilation was itself overwhelmingly a > result of persecution -- forced conversions, desire to lead a far > safer life as part of the majority culture, etc. In fact, because of > the Holocaust, there are fewer Jews today than there were 100 years > ago. > > One can now understand why the Passover Haggadah -- the special > prayer book for the Passover Seder meal, first written about 2,000 > years ago -- contains this famous statement: "In every generation > there are those who rise against us to annihilate us . .
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
Bob, you need to grow up, first step is try not to twist things as much all the time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of > Canaan > > the > > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they > are > > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and > sinister > > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be > a > > book > > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. > It is > > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. Their > > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > > > > > > I'm sorry, but it's just plain silly to pull some > > negative-sounding bit out of a scripture written > > thousands of years ago, then turn around and point > > fingers at the people whose scripture it is and > > sneer, See? See? > > > > The point I was making was that things have not changed over the > course of thousands of years -- "a single tribe at war with everyone > around it." As far as your claim that this is scripture belonging > only to Jews, that's not true, as the Book of Numbers is part of > both Christian and Islamic tradition. If you don't like the tone of > Numbers 13, you probably will also not like Numbers 31, in which > Moses tells his soldiers to kill everybody in an enemy tribe, except > virgin girls: > > http://www.sacred-texts.com/wmn/wb/wb33.htm > > 17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill > every woman that hath known man. > > 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man keep alive > for yourselves. > > The modern exception, of course, is that of the hundreds of innocent > civilians that Israel is slaughtering in Lebanon, there are > undoubtedly also many virgin girls. > > I'm not saying that Jews are worse than anybody else, but they are > certainly no better, and that has always been the case. In order to > keep from having to kill their neighbors in order to enforce their > occupation of Palestine, which Arabs have been trying to reverse > since day one, the Jews should leave Palestine and live happily > elsewhere. If they don't, the numerical superiority and increasing > sophistication of the Arab/Muslim world will sooner and later vacate > Palestine on terms not favorable to the occupiers. Anybody who does > not see this train wreck coming (actually, the train wreck has been > in progress for some time) is just blinded by Zionist propaganda. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
You think Bob that if only the Jews vacate Israel, they really will live happily ever after? Talked about being duped, I can't believe how naive a statement that is. Have you not read about Muslim Terrorit inspired bombings in Bombay,Bali,Spain,London,Indonesia,Russia,etc. Have you read what al-Zawahiri said last week? "The war with Israel does not depend on ceasefires. It is a Jihad for the sake of God and will last until (our) religion prevails ... from Spain to Iraq," al-Zawahiri said. "We will attack everywhere" This is war of idealogies, at least 10% of the Muslim population (total population of 1.5billion) believes in a world under Allah and Sharia law. You want a train wreck, it is already here, you don't have to wait until Muslims attempt to kick the Jews out of Israel. Jews have always been the canary in the mine, it won't stop there. Question is, do we love life more than Muslim terrorists love death? Banners in Lebanon put up by hezbollah say "Motherhood is sweet, but Martyrdom is sweeter". If only the Jews would leave, nice sentiment Bob. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of > Canaan > > the > > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they > are > > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and > sinister > > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be > a > > book > > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. > It is > > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. Their > > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > > > > > > I'm sorry, but it's just plain silly to pull some > > negative-sounding bit out of a scripture written > > thousands of years ago, then turn around and point > > fingers at the people whose scripture it is and > > sneer, See? See? > > > > The point I was making was that things have not changed over the > course of thousands of years -- "a single tribe at war with everyone > around it." As far as your claim that this is scripture belonging > only to Jews, that's not true, as the Book of Numbers is part of > both Christian and Islamic tradition. If you don't like the tone of > Numbers 13, you probably will also not like Numbers 31, in which > Moses tells his soldiers to kill everybody in an enemy tribe, except > virgin girls: > > http://www.sacred-texts.com/wmn/wb/wb33.htm > > 17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill > every woman that hath known man. > > 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man keep alive > for yourselves. > > The modern exception, of course, is that of the hundreds of innocent > civilians that Israel is slaughtering in Lebanon, there are > undoubtedly also many virgin girls. > > I'm not saying that Jews are worse than anybody else, but they are > certainly no better, and that has always been the case. In order to > keep from having to kill their neighbors in order to enforce their > occupation of Palestine, which Arabs have been trying to reverse > since day one, the Jews should leave Palestine and live happily > elsewhere. If they don't, the numerical superiority and increasing > sophistication of the Arab/Muslim world will sooner and later vacate > Palestine on terms not favorable to the occupiers. Anybody who does > not see this train wreck coming (actually, the train wreck has been > in progress for some time) is just blinded by Zionist propaganda. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
Apparently Bob, even Jews in sleepy Seattle can't seem to live in peace, I know if only the Jews leave Israel, we won't have Muslim crazies use 13 year old girls as a hostage and shoot pregant women in the arm: SEATTLE - The man suspected in a fatal shooting rampage hid behind a potted plant in a Jewish charity's foyer and forced his way through a security door by holding a gun to a 13-year-old girl's head, authorities said Saturday. Once inside, police say, Naveed Afzal Haq opened fire with two semiautomatic pistols. One woman, Pam Waechter, 58, of Seattle was killed at the scene. Five more women were wounded. Haq, 30, was ordered held on $50 million bail Saturday pending formal charges of murder and attempted murder. Haq, a Muslim, told authorities he was angered by the war in Iraq and U.S. military cooperation with Israel. "He pointedly blamed Jewish people for all of these problems," Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske said at a news conference Saturday. According to a statement of probable cause, Haq told a 911 dispatcher: "These are Jews and I'm tired of getting pushed around and our people getting pushed around by the situation in the Middle East." Muhammad Ullah, a close family friend and a senior member of a mosque founded in part by Haq's father, described Haq as a quiet loner with few friends. In a statement, the Islamic Center of the Tri-Cities offered condolences to the shooting victims and said "we disassociate this act from our Islamic teachings and beliefs." Let's see where else have I heard that Jews were the cause of all "these" problems? Oh yes Nazi Germany and now Tehran. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "larry.potter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Bob, you need to grow up, first step is try not to twist things as > much all the time. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > > wrote: > > > > > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of > > Canaan > > > the > > > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for > they > > are > > > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and > > sinister > > > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to > be > > a > > > book > > > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. > > It is > > > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. > Their > > > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but it's just plain silly to pull some > > > negative-sounding bit out of a scripture written > > > thousands of years ago, then turn around and point > > > fingers at the people whose scripture it is and > > > sneer, See? See? > > > > > > > The point I was making was that things have not changed over the > > course of thousands of years -- "a single tribe at war with > everyone > > around it." As far as your claim that this is scripture belonging > > only to Jews, that's not true, as the Book of Numbers is part of > > both Christian and Islamic tradition. If you don't like the tone > of > > Numbers 13, you probably will also not like Numbers 31, in which > > Moses tells his soldiers to kill everybody in an enemy tribe, > except > > virgin girls: > > > > http://www.sacred-texts.com/wmn/wb/wb33.htm > > > > 17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill > > every woman that hath known man. > > > > 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man keep > alive > > for yourselves. > > > > The modern exception, of course, is that of the hundreds of > innocent > > civilians that Israel is slaughtering in Lebanon, there are > > undoubtedly also many virgin girls. > > > > I'm not saying that Jews are worse than anybody else, but they are > > certainly no better, and that has always been the case. In order > to > > keep from having to kill their neighbors in order to enforce their > > occupation of Palestine, which Arabs have been trying to reverse > > since day one, the Jews should leave Palestine and live happily > > elsewhere. If they don't, the numerical superiority and increasing > > sophistication of the Arab/Muslim world will sooner and later > vacate > > Palestine on terms not favorable to the occupiers. Anybody who > does > > not see this train wreck coming (actually, the train wreck has > been > > in progress for some time) is just blinded by Zionist propaganda. > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/gro
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "larry.potter" > wrote: > > > > This is humeristic column, bob, but it seems that you missed that > > point, why I'm not surprised ? > > > > cut and and paste and put things out of context seems to be the > > tactic for you. > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > > wrote: > > > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of > Canaan > > the > > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they > > are > > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and > sinister > > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be > a > > book > > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. > It > > is > > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. Their > > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > > Hi Larry, > > After reading Bob's insights about Israel, the Bible,and the Jews, I > thought I'd share an article written by Dennis Prager. He addresses > how many Jews would react to Bob's apparent beliefs. Great timing > Bob, I'm sure the Seattle Jewish Community will be thrilled to read > your in-depth analysis of the value of the old testament to society. > Bob, do us a favor and stick to something you know about- Bevan: > > On Jan. 21 in Paris, a gang of Muslims intent on kidnapping Jews > kidnapped 23-year-old Ilan Halimi. Reciting verses from the Koran in > phone conversations demanding money from the family, they ultimately > rejected the money and tortured Halimi to death. They kept him naked > for weeks while they cut him up and finally poured flammable liquid > over his skin and burned him alive. > When Jews read this story, they see themselves as Halimi and think > that such a thing could happen to them somewhere in the world today > and somewhere in the world at any time in the past. > > If you want to understand how Jews think and behave, you must first > understand how large antisemitism and the Holocaust loom in the > psyche, emotions and minds of the vast majority of Jews. > > It could not be otherwise. > > While ethnic, racial, religious and national hatreds are as old as > mankind, none has been as universal and as deep as hatred of Jews. > > Jew-hatred was given the name "anti-Semitism" only in 1879 by a > German anti-Semite named Wilhelm Marr. The term is entirely > misleading since it has nothing to do with "Semites." Jews may be > Semites, but so are Arabs, and antisemitism never meant hatred of > Arabs, only of Jews. > > Jew-hatred or antisemitism has been so deep that tens of millions of > people have equated the Jews with the devil and many more have > desired that the Jews be erased from the Earth. Such an attempt was > made only one generation ago in what is called the Holocaust (or > Shoah, the Hebrew term). This was the German Nazi attempt to murder > every Jewish man, woman and child, which resulted in the murder of > two out of every three Jews in Europe. > > To give an idea of how many Jews have been murdered for being Jews, > all one needs to do is look at population statistics. Scholars > estimate the population of the Roman Empire at about 60 million at > the time of Jesus. According to the dean of Jewish historians, > Professor Salo Baron, at that time Jews comprised about 10 percent > of the population. That means that 2,000 years ago there were about > 6 million Jews. It is also estimated that at that time, the world's > population was about 200 million. > > Today the world's population is over 6 billion. While the world's > population is about 30 times larger than 2,000 years ago, the Jewish > population has barely doubled. Had Jews been left alone to procreate > at the same rate as others, there would be about 180 million Jews in > the world today. Moreover, even the 6 million number for the Roman > empire represented a huge loss of population due to extensive > killing of Jews in the 12 centuries from their inception. > > It is true that Jewish population losses have been also due to > assimilation, but this assimilation was itself overwhelmingly a > result of persecution Not true...at least not true for America: today, 50% of Jews marry non-Jews and this is NOT a result of persecution. Jews in America enjoy a freedom of living unprecedented in history when considering Jews living as a minority in a country. Alan Dershowitz wrote a whole book on this. > -- forced conversions, desire to lead a far > safer life as part of the majority culture, etc. In fact, because of > the Holocaust, there are fewer Jews today than there were 100 years > ago. > > One can now unders
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge [snip] > > > > Not true...at least not true for America: today, 50% of Jews marry > non-Jews and this is NOT a result of persecution. Jews in America > enjoy a freedom of living unprecedented in history when considering > Jews living as a minority in a country. > > Alan Dershowitz wrote a whole book on this. [snip] Here's something on that book from Amazon.com: "Most recently in the spotlight as one of the many defense lawyers attending O. J. Simpson in his first criminal trial, attorney Alan M. Dershowitz is also a powerful advocate for the liberal Jewish tradition in this country. In an earlier book, Chutzpah, Dershowitz celebrated an end to Jewish isolation and institutional anti- Semitism in America; in his latest book, The Vanishing American Jew, he decries the perhaps inevitable result of this desegregation: assimilation. "Dershowitz writes powerfully about his fear that, with nothing to struggle against and no powerful motivation to maintain traditions, American secular Jews will, within a few generations, lose their Jewishness. The author writes from a privileged position: raised an Orthodox Jew, he embraced secular Judaism in his young adulthood and thus comes equipped with an intimate understanding of what he has chosen to reject and accept. Though Dershowitz has no definitive answers for the problem of The Vanishing American Jew, the questions he raises may be the first step in discovering a solution. --This text refers to the Hardcover edition." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of Canaan the > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they are > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and sinister > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be a book > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. It is > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. Their > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > One of the most absurd passages I've encountered in the Bible is this one from 2. Kings: 23 And he went up from thence unto Beth-el; and as he was going up by the way, there came forth young lads out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou baldhead; go up, thou baldhead. 24 And he looked behind him and saw them, and cursed them in the name of Jehovah. And there came forth two she-bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two lads of them. 25 And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria. It's weird that most English translations have "she-bears", but Vulgata has "duo ursi", which is a masculine expression. Corresponding feminine would IMO be "duae ursae". 24 qui cum se respexisset vidit eos et maledixit eis in nomine Domini egressique sunt duo ursi de saltu et laceraverunt ex eis quadraginta duos pueros To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > 23 And he went up from thence unto Beth-el; and as he > was going up by the way, there came forth young lads > out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, > Go up, thou baldhead; go up, thou baldhead. > 24 And he looked behind him and saw them, and cursed > them in the name of Jehovah. And there came forth two > she-bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two lads > of them. And there's been trouble bruin in the Middle East ever since. Reminds me of a story told by singer/bard Robin Williamson. A man in a bar was poking fun at his bald neighbor, and finally reached up and rubbed the man's smooth head and said, "Baldy, baldy, baldy...that feels just like...just like my wife's behind!" The bald man reached up and rubbed his own head and said, "So it does." :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of > Canaan > > the > > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they > are > > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and > sinister > > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be > a > > book > > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. > It is > > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. Their > > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > > > > > > I'm sorry, but it's just plain silly to pull some > > negative-sounding bit out of a scripture written > > thousands of years ago, then turn around and point > > fingers at the people whose scripture it is and > > sneer, See? See? > > > > The point I was making was that things have not changed over the > course of thousands of years -- "a single tribe at war with > everyone around it." Obviously. That's the "point" I was saying was silly. > As far as your claim that this is scripture belonging > only to Jews, I did not make such a claim, Bob. Don't put words in my mouth, please. that's not true, as the Book of Numbers is part of > both Christian and Islamic tradition. If you don't like the tone of > Numbers 13, you probably will also not like Numbers 31, in which > Moses tells his soldiers to kill everybody in an enemy tribe, > except virgin girls: Says Bob, completely missing *my* point. And Jesus said one should hate one's mother and father and not even bother to give them a decent burial when they die (in a scripture that's considerably less ancient). You can find things that sound offensive to modern sensibilities in virtually any ancient scripture. We mock Christian fundies for taking the Bible literally, then we turn around and do the same thing when we want to slam Jews. In many if not most cases, such passages in ancient scripures are either metaphorical in some sense, or aren't the point of the scripture at all; or they reflect the way the society thought *then*, in a vastly different time and vastly different situations. As I pointed out to Curtis not long ago, the Jews have a long, long history of humanitarian ethics and social-justice activism on behalf of the poor and oppressed, all grounded in the very same scriptures you and he hold up to scorn. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > > wrote: > > > > > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of > > Canaan > > > the > > > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for > they > > are > > > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and > > sinister > > > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be > > a > > > book > > > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. > > It is > > > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. > Their > > > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but it's just plain silly to pull some > > > negative-sounding bit out of a scripture written > > > thousands of years ago, then turn around and point > > > fingers at the people whose scripture it is and > > > sneer, See? See? > > > > > > > The point I was making was that things have not changed over the > > course of thousands of years -- "a single tribe at war with > > everyone around it." > > Obviously. That's the "point" I was saying was > silly. > > > As far as your claim that this is scripture belonging > > only to Jews, > > I did not make such a claim, Bob. Don't put words in > my mouth, please. > > that's not true, as the Book of Numbers is part of > > both Christian and Islamic tradition. If you don't like the tone of > > Numbers 13, you probably will also not like Numbers 31, in which > > Moses tells his soldiers to kill everybody in an enemy tribe, > > except virgin girls: > > Says Bob, completely missing *my* point. > > And Jesus said one should hate one's mother > and father and not even bother to give them > a decent burial when they die (in a scripture > that's considerably less ancient). > > You can find things that sound offensive to > modern sensibilities in virtually any ancient > scripture. > > We mock Christian fundies for taking the Bible > literally, then we turn around and do the same > thing when we want to slam Jews. > > In many if not most cases, such passages in > ancient scripures are either metaphorical in > some sense, or aren't the point of the scripture > at all; or they reflect the way the society > thought *then*, in a vastly different time and > vastly different situations. > > As I pointed out to Curtis not long ago, the > Jews have a long, long history of humanitarian > ethics and social-justice activism on behalf of > the poor and oppressed, all grounded in the very > same scriptures you and he hold up to scorn. > Different part of the scriptures. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > > wrote: > > > > > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of > > Canaan > > > the > > > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for > they > > are > > > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and > > sinister > > > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be > > a > > > book > > > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. > > It is > > > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. > Their > > > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but it's just plain silly to pull some > > > negative-sounding bit out of a scripture written > > > thousands of years ago, then turn around and point > > > fingers at the people whose scripture it is and > > > sneer, See? See? > > > > > > > The point I was making was that things have not changed over the > > course of thousands of years -- "a single tribe at war with > > everyone around it." > > Obviously. That's the "point" I was saying was > silly. > > > As far as your claim that this is scripture belonging > > only to Jews, > > I did not make such a claim, Bob. Don't put words in > my mouth, please. > > that's not true, as the Book of Numbers is part of > > both Christian and Islamic tradition. If you don't like the tone of > > Numbers 13, you probably will also not like Numbers 31, in which > > Moses tells his soldiers to kill everybody in an enemy tribe, > > except virgin girls: > > Says Bob, completely missing *my* point. > > And Jesus said one should hate one's mother > and father and not even bother to give them > a decent burial when they die (in a scripture > that's considerably less ancient). > > You can find things that sound offensive to > modern sensibilities in virtually any ancient > scripture. > > We mock Christian fundies for taking the Bible > literally, then we turn around and do the same > thing when we want to slam Jews. > > In many if not most cases, such passages in > ancient scripures are either metaphorical in > some sense, or aren't the point of the scripture > at all; or they reflect the way the society > thought *then*, in a vastly different time and > vastly different situations. > > As I pointed out to Curtis not long ago, the > Jews have a long, long history of humanitarian > ethics and social-justice activism on behalf of > the poor and oppressed, all grounded in the very > same scriptures you and he hold up to scorn. > Well said. I would add: the words in scriptures are, for the most part, "descriptions not prescriptions" (was it Judy who coined that term? If it was, it's the best and maybe only wise thing she's ever written). These words are designed only to make sense on a certain level of consciousness and, indeed, by reading or hearing them, confirm to the listener or reader the state of consciousness they are in. To take these words as instructions for living is, on the face of it, absurd and surely lead to disastrous results. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of > > > Canaan > > > > the > > > > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > > > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for > > they > > > are > > > > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and > > > sinister > > > > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be > > > a > > > > book > > > > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. > > > It is > > > > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. > > Their > > > > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > > > > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but it's just plain silly to pull some > > > > negative-sounding bit out of a scripture written > > > > thousands of years ago, then turn around and point > > > > fingers at the people whose scripture it is and > > > > sneer, See? See? > > > > > > > > > > The point I was making was that things have not changed over the > > > course of thousands of years -- "a single tribe at war with > > > everyone around it." > > > > Obviously. That's the "point" I was saying was > > silly. > > > > > As far as your claim that this is scripture belonging > > > only to Jews, > > > > I did not make such a claim, Bob. Don't put words in > > my mouth, please. > > > > that's not true, as the Book of Numbers is part of > > > both Christian and Islamic tradition. If you don't like the tone of > > > Numbers 13, you probably will also not like Numbers 31, in which > > > Moses tells his soldiers to kill everybody in an enemy tribe, > > > except virgin girls: > > > > Says Bob, completely missing *my* point. > > > > And Jesus said one should hate one's mother > > and father and not even bother to give them > > a decent burial when they die (in a scripture > > that's considerably less ancient). > > > > You can find things that sound offensive to > > modern sensibilities in virtually any ancient > > scripture. > > > > We mock Christian fundies for taking the Bible > > literally, then we turn around and do the same > > thing when we want to slam Jews. > > > > In many if not most cases, such passages in > > ancient scripures are either metaphorical in > > some sense, or aren't the point of the scripture > > at all; or they reflect the way the society > > thought *then*, in a vastly different time and > > vastly different situations. > > > > As I pointed out to Curtis not long ago, the > > Jews have a long, long history of humanitarian > > ethics and social-justice activism on behalf of > > the poor and oppressed, all grounded in the very > > same scriptures you and he hold up to scorn. > > Different part of the scriptures. Yes and no. But the point being, the existence of the "bad" parts hasn't somehow turned the Jews into an unethical people. Curtis had said: "I am always amazed when the bible is held up as a moral standard to follow and to expose to children. It makes me think, 'have you actually read that book?'" That's such an extraordinarily shallow perspective. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante wrote: > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of Canaan > the > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they are > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and sinister > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be a > book > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. It is > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. Their > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > > I'm sorry, but it's just plain silly to pull some > negative-sounding bit out of a scripture written > thousands of years ago, then turn around and point > fingers at the people whose scripture it is and > sneer, See? See? Then look at the quotes again of current leaders and those in charge of Isreal since it inception in 1949. http://www.monabaker.com/quotes.htm "We must expel Arabs and take their places." -- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985. "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." -- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978. "There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" -- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122. "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." -- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99. "Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country." -- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech. "If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel." -- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation). David Ben Gurion Prime Minister of Israel 1949 - 1954, 1955 - 1963 "There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist." -- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969. "How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." -- Golda Meir, March 8, 1969. "Any one who speaks in favor of bringing the Arab refugees back must also say how he expects to take the responsibility for it, if he is interested in the state of Israel. It is better that things are stated clearly and plainly: We shall not let this happen." -- Golda Meir, 1961, in a speech to the Knesset, reported in Ner, October 1961 "This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy." -- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971 Golda Meir Prime Minister of Israel 1969 - 1974 "We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!" -- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979. "[Israel will] create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat." -- Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton's standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnlasher20002000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante wrote: > > > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of Canaan > > the > > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they are > > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and sinister > > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be a > > book > > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. It is > > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. Their > > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > > > > I'm sorry, but it's just plain silly to pull some > > negative-sounding bit out of a scripture written > > thousands of years ago, then turn around and point > > fingers at the people whose scripture it is and > > sneer, See? See? > > Then look at the quotes again of current leaders and those in charge > of Isreal since it inception in 1949. No. We can look at the quotes all we want, but it would still be silly to try to make a connection between them and scripture. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > > wrote: > > > > > > > > "Listen to how Joshua and Caleb describe the inhabitants of > > Canaan > > > the > > > > people who rightfully possess the land the Israelites want to > > > > seize: "Have no fear then of the people of the country, for > they > > are > > > > our prey" (my italics). "Prey"that's a breathtaking and > > sinister > > > > word! Again we're reminded that the Torah is not aspiring to be > > a > > > book > > > > for everyone. It is not preaching universal truth for all men. > > It is > > > > the work of a single tribe at war with everyone around it. > Their > > > > enemies were not human: They were prey." > > > > > > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2146473/entry/2146669/?nav=tap3 > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but it's just plain silly to pull some > > > negative-sounding bit out of a scripture written > > > thousands of years ago, then turn around and point > > > fingers at the people whose scripture it is and > > > sneer, See? See? > > > > > > > The point I was making was that things have not changed over the > > course of thousands of years -- "a single tribe at war with > > everyone around it." > > Obviously. That's the "point" I was saying was > silly. > > > As far as your claim that this is scripture belonging > > only to Jews, > > I did not make such a claim, Bob. Don't put words in > my mouth, please. > > that's not true, as the Book of Numbers is part of > > both Christian and Islamic tradition. If you don't like the tone of > > Numbers 13, you probably will also not like Numbers 31, in which > > Moses tells his soldiers to kill everybody in an enemy tribe, > > except virgin girls: > > Says Bob, completely missing *my* point. > > And Jesus said one should hate one's mother > and father and not even bother to give them > a decent burial when they die (in a scripture > that's considerably less ancient). > > You can find things that sound offensive to > modern sensibilities in virtually any ancient > scripture. > > We mock Christian fundies for taking the Bible > literally, then we turn around and do the same > thing when we want to slam Jews. > > In many if not most cases, such passages in > ancient scripures are either metaphorical in > some sense, or aren't the point of the scripture > at all; or they reflect the way the society > thought *then*, in a vastly different time and > vastly different situations. > > As I pointed out to Curtis not long ago, the > Jews have a long, long history of humanitarian > ethics and social-justice activism on behalf of > the poor and oppressed, all grounded in the very > same scriptures you and he hold up to scorn. > http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28676 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Israel gives an inch?
And I believe he was considered a moderate! Sal On Jul 30, 2006, at 3:11 PM, johnlasher20002000 wrote: "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
