[FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
> > On Jan 21, 2007, at 11:38 AM, Marek Reavis wrote: > > > > >> > > > [Maharishi and the TMO have long been strong proponents of > avoiding > > > anything that evenly faintly smacks of anything "hippie". As an > old > > > hippie, and living in a part of California where hippie culture > still > > > flourishes, I find that unfortunate.] > > > > I always have as well. It really just occurred to me > > that rather than being anything against hippie culture > > per se, that since many of us have so many pleasant > > memories of that time and feel so much of a connection > > to it, it was more of an attempt to get us to deny our > > collective past (and therefore an important part of > > ourselves) so the TMO could then "remake" us in its own > > image, sort of like the army. > > Actually it wasn't about getting TMers to deny part > of themselves so the TMO could "remake" them. It > was a lot simpler than that: because MMY wanted TM > and the TMO to be seen as mainstream by the rest of > the world. > > It was a PR move, in other words. > > MMY wanted TM to be adopted by business and government > and mainline churches and so on and thought, most > likely correctly, that a hippie-dippie image would get > in the way of that goal. Hippies, after all, didn't > tend to have money and influence; and churches would > automatically resist anything that looked New Age-y, > or, God forbid, Hindu. Yeah, this is what happened; but, The thing is, It was more of a total cultural change in America; Started with the death of John Lennon, the defeat of Jimmy Carter; And the installation of Reagan as President. Reagan was governor of California, and always stood for anti-hippiedom Pat Buchanan was working for Reagan then, and he is still working to wipe out the hippies... Marijuana is still illegal, and against federal law? But slowly the hippies are making a return, slowly, surely... But this competes w/ corporate values, which are based in and of profit. China has the same religious values. Hippies are not tolerated in China; neither is anyone who happens to not want to work, 18 hours a day... According to: Corporate/Military Amerika: Hippies are considered 'losers'. Donald Trump is thought of to be clever and successful and why Paris Hilton is ooo wee. -Money doesn't talk, it screams. If you look at the picture of Maharishi, circa 1961- http://www.yogiphotos.com/mmytat1.jpeg 'Strolling with Tatwala Baba'- This scene makes any Woodstock era stuff- seem like kindergarten. Like George Harrison says: 'Brainwashed to the bone. Anyway, ask Ganesh, he knows whats been going down! P.S. What the heck happened to Jimmy Carter- seems to be going off the deep end? R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" > > wrote: > > > > > > [One person's answers] interleaved: > > > > > > ** > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ancient5 wrote: > > > > > > 1. Where does the name "Invincible America" come from? It > > > > reminded us of a slogan that might be used by a neo-fascist > > > > group -- rather scary. Is it an effort to tap into the national, > > > > post-9/11 paranoia for marketing purposes? Does the name > > > > reflect that there is some nationalist splinter group? > > > > > > > [This slogan represents (apparently) Maharishi's sense of > > > what is a basic concern for people today (post-9/11) and > > > it's used by the TM Organizations (TMO) as a rallying cry > > > for the benefits of TM and the "Maharishi Effect" (ME) to > > > create world peace. > > > > "Invincibility" has been a TM buzzword for the > > results of the Maharishi Effect since "Maharishi > > Effect" itself has been a TM buzzword, starting > > back in the late '70s, I believe, if not earlier. > > And, of course, the TM-Sidhis are taught on a "Center Invincibility > Course". > I remember 1978 was declared by Maharishi to be the year of invincibility, with the context being a person's invincible nature due to their realization of the self as separate from activity. No one back then was talking much about having that experience, so it was mostly an inspirational declaration.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
>> ancient5 wrote: >> Where does the name "Invincible America" come from? >> It reminded us of a slogan that might be used by a >> neo-fascist group -- rather scary. >> Is it an effort to tap into the national, post-9/11 paranoia >> for marketing purposes? Does the name reflect that there is >> some nationalist splinter group? > > markmeredith2002 wrote: > Invincible America comes from TM Org. (TMO) philosophy that > their practices can make a nation naturally invincible, > slogan's been around for decades, like most things TMO > it's a little over the top. Some would say the leadership > of the TMO has neo-fascist tendencies but more from a > psychological perspective not political. Maharishi has a comprehensive theory in which he re-defines what Invincibilty (for America or any nation) really entails. there is an entire website devoted to this understanding at: http://maharishi.invincibledefence.org/introduction.html "The real basis of defence is invincibility." "Invincible defence means that the need for defence should not arise and the nation smoothly continues to enjoy peace, freedom, and prosperity -- the natural dignity of a sovereign nation." "The need for defence will not arise if there is no enemy; no enemy will be born to a nation that has an invincible national consciousness and radiates an indomitable, soothing influence of peace." key slogans: "Victory Before War" - "Disallow the Birth of an Enemy" - "Destroy the Enmity in the Enemy"
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
On Jan 21, 2007, at 1:20 PM, Marek Reavis wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >> On Jan 21, 2007, at 11:38 AM, Marek Reavis wrote: >> >>> [Maharishi and the TMO have long been strong proponents of avoiding >>> anything that evenly faintly smacks of anything "hippie". As an old >>> hippie, and living in a part of California where hippie culture still >>> flourishes, I find that unfortunate.] >> >> I always have as well. It really just occurred to me that rather than >> being anything against hippie culture per se, that since many of us >> have so many pleasant memories of that time and feel so much of a >> connection to it, it was more of an attempt to get us to deny our >> collective past (and therefore an important part of ourselves) so the >> TMO could then "remake" us in its own image, sort of like the army. >> >> It was the same way with other stuff as well, things the TMO said were >> important in the beginning, but that they clearly had changed their >> minds about after a few years, like family. >> >> However, if you really want to see someone still heavily involved go >> nuts, just mention the Beatles. :) >> >> Sal >> > **end** > > Good point, Sal, and probably true (about our 'remaking' in the TMO's > image). Certainly, understandable from the point of Maharishi at the > time, but unfortunate (IMO) in that, by attempting to appeal to the > larger, establishment culture, the TMO denied its natural base in the > counterculture. Yep, especially since it had so much appeal in the counterculture, and there was so much creative energy there. > The counterculture was motivated (at least to one > degree or another) by more heart-oriented concerns (peace, love, > environmentalism, simplicity) as opposed to the more achievement- and > success-oriented concerns found in the dominant, consumer culture > (wealth, power, security, prestige). Maharishi, by temperament and > culture, is obviously more sypathetic with the latter than the former. Unfortunately true, as so many of us had come from that and wanted nothing more than to be free of it, for the most part anyway. > > Just the other night, I was listening to the Beatles, sitting on the > couch with a few candles and the fire from the stove the only light, > incense burning (of course), and just marveling at what a fine group > they were, and what a tremendous time that was. And here we are, > still riding that same wave that they were the natural expression of > (along with Maharishi and TM). It lifted us up then and propelled us > into this brave new future. Very well said. Not easy to imagine those times without the soundtrack of the Beatles in the background. > Could have been worse. > It sure could have been. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
Comment below: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jan 21, 2007, at 11:38 AM, Marek Reavis wrote: > > >> > > [Maharishi and the TMO have long been strong proponents of avoiding > > anything that evenly faintly smacks of anything "hippie". As an old > > hippie, and living in a part of California where hippie culture still > > flourishes, I find that unfortunate.] > > I always have as well. It really just occurred to me that rather than > being anything against hippie culture per se, that since many of us > have so many pleasant memories of that time and feel so much of a > connection to it, it was more of an attempt to get us to deny our > collective past (and therefore an important part of ourselves) so the > TMO could then "remake" us in its own image, sort of like the army. > > It was the same way with other stuff as well, things the TMO said were > important in the beginning, but that they clearly had changed their > minds about after a few years, like family. > > However, if you really want to see someone still heavily involved go > nuts, just mention the Beatles. :) > > Sal > **end** Good point, Sal, and probably true (about our 'remaking' in the TMO's image). Certainly, understandable from the point of Maharishi at the time, but unfortunate (IMO) in that, by attempting to appeal to the larger, establishment culture, the TMO denied its natural base in the counterculture. The counterculture was motivated (at least to one degree or another) by more heart-oriented concerns (peace, love, environmentalism, simplicity) as opposed to the more achievement- and success-oriented concerns found in the dominant, consumer culture (wealth, power, security, prestige). Maharishi, by temperament and culture, is obviously more sypathetic with the latter than the former. Just the other night, I was listening to the Beatles, sitting on the couch with a few candles and the fire from the stove the only light, incense burning (of course), and just marveling at what a fine group they were, and what a tremendous time that was. And here we are, still riding that same wave that they were the natural expression of (along with Maharishi and TM). It lifted us up then and propelled us into this brave new future. Could have been worse. Marek
[FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jan 21, 2007, at 11:38 AM, Marek Reavis wrote: > > >> > > [Maharishi and the TMO have long been strong proponents of avoiding > > anything that evenly faintly smacks of anything "hippie". As an old > > hippie, and living in a part of California where hippie culture still > > flourishes, I find that unfortunate.] > > I always have as well. It really just occurred to me > that rather than being anything against hippie culture > per se, that since many of us have so many pleasant > memories of that time and feel so much of a connection > to it, it was more of an attempt to get us to deny our > collective past (and therefore an important part of > ourselves) so the TMO could then "remake" us in its own > image, sort of like the army. Actually it wasn't about getting TMers to deny part of themselves so the TMO could "remake" them. It was a lot simpler than that: because MMY wanted TM and the TMO to be seen as mainstream by the rest of the world. It was a PR move, in other words. MMY wanted TM to be adopted by business and government and mainline churches and so on and thought, most likely correctly, that a hippie-dippie image would get in the way of that goal. Hippies, after all, didn't tend to have money and influence; and churches would automatically resist anything that looked New Age-y, or, God forbid, Hindu.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ancient5 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I was just told that I left out three questions. Here they are: > > 15. How many TM kids go to the public school? I don't know the number but quite a few -- the TM school costs a lot. Recently I spoke to some TM kids in the public school who really liked it. > 16. How many former TMers live in Fairfield? Are there are a > significant number? Yes. Most TMers in town still meditate, but do not buy into the whole campus scene. > 17. Sorry about this one . . . Do longtime TMers believe that they > will someday be able to advance to the second or third stage of yogic > flying? People on campus probably do. Others doing the sidhis might but aren't holding their breath. Most people in the domes are there because of the belief that they are evolving and changing the world even without any outer advancement in their flying practice over the years. > Thanks again. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ancient5 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Part of my family and I spent a recent day wandering around Fairfield, > MUM, and Jefferson County's trails. Seemed like a nice place - an > unusually vibrant small town set in a pleasant place. And, some of > the odd things we observed were wonderful - the woman being directed > to a basket of Ganesh chants in the books store, the home furnishing > store selling shrines, the word "roo," the occasional condensing of > "Maharishi" to an affectionate "Marshy," how full Revelations was of > conversing people late on a Saturday afternoon, that people had time > to chat with us and didn't seem rushed, and the unique and marvelous > "state championships" sign at the high school - one that lists much > more than sports. > > But there were some odd things that we couldn't figure out - some that > we weren't sure we understood and some that seemed vaguely sinister. > If anyone could spend a moment answering some of our question, we'd > appreciate it. I apologize if these questions offend - if they do, > it's ignorance not intention. And if we just didn't see things right, > feel free to be blunt. Here's my take on your questions. > 1. Where does the name "Invincible America" come from? It reminded > us of a slogan that might be used by a neo-fascist group -- rather > scary. Is it an effort to tap into the national, post-9/11 paranoia > for marketing purposes? Does the name reflect that there is some > nationalist splinter group? Invincible America comes from TM Org. (TMO) philosophy that their practices can make a nation naturally invincible, slogan's been around for decades, like most things TMO it's a little over the top. Some would say the leadership of the TMO has neo-fascist tendencies but more from a psychological perspective not political. > 2. Is the TM movement attracting new people at the same rate as it > did in the past? We noticed that most of the people we saw were older > than all of us - late 50s or 60s? In Revelations we saw a family with > a couple kids and two college age kids, but everyone else seemed to be > much older. On the trails, we saw a number of folks, but again, they > were generally older. Vibrant and healthy but over 50. Not too many new people coming in. Basically baby boomers and a few of their kids. > 3. We didn't see any political bumper stickers. Is that a conscious > choice? The TMO had its own political party, natural law party, to promote its agenda. Actually a wide variety of political views in FFld, though in general the people put their energy into personal development not political activism. > 4. In Revelations, it seemed that most of the people were single. Do > people move to Fairfield after their spouses die? Is there something > about TM that makes more people stay single? Yes to the 2nd part, but it would be long and difficult to explain. > 4. None of the women we met had short hair. We are accustomed to > seeing fairly short hair on at least a few women. Similarly, we > noticed no piercings or anything that might say "hippie." Not sure about the short hair part. Generally a rather conservative spiritual mov't socially and culturally. The cool kids tend to leave home early and stay gone. 5. Is there one gold dome for women and one for men? > Yes. > 6. Shouldn't someone paint and repair the gold domes? Yes - the TMO tends to focus on grand future visions rather than take care of existing projects and people. 7. There were signs on the door of one of the domes stressing the > importance of turning up on time so security could be maintained - or > something like that. Why is security in the domes such a big concern? Used to be to keep the flying program secret and ensure a comfortable meditation program inside the domes once everyone has started. Probably some psychological reasons going on now. > 8. Should Vedic style houses be painted a shade of maize? The only > Vedic-style house we saw that wasn't was near the trailhead east of > the domes. It was kind of slate/blue. Why? I don't think maize is a required vedic home color, but people here who really buy into the belief system tend to follow the same rules and do not want to stand out too much. Gold is used alot in the mov't and is seen as being an enlightened color I guess. The slate blue guy must be a real individualist! > 9. Do people who live out in Vedic City drive back and forth to town > and MUM or do they bus or bicycle? They drive. > 10. Is Utopia City owned by MUM or a TMer? Do you mean the trailer park near campus?? That was started by a TMer but then given to MUM. > 11. Has the movement changed? Is someone other than the Maharishi > really in charge these days? We ask because some of the things we saw > seemed out of what we had conceived as the character of TM. Notably, > the "Invincible" slogan and the Maharishi Enlightenment Center store >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
On Jan 21, 2007, at 11:38 AM, Marek Reavis wrote: >> > [Maharishi and the TMO have long been strong proponents of avoiding > anything that evenly faintly smacks of anything "hippie". As an old > hippie, and living in a part of California where hippie culture still > flourishes, I find that unfortunate.] I always have as well. It really just occurred to me that rather than being anything against hippie culture per se, that since many of us have so many pleasant memories of that time and feel so much of a connection to it, it was more of an attempt to get us to deny our collective past (and therefore an important part of ourselves) so the TMO could then "remake" us in its own image, sort of like the army. It was the same way with other stuff as well, things the TMO said were important in the beginning, but that they clearly had changed their minds about after a few years, like family. However, if you really want to see someone still heavily involved go nuts, just mention the Beatles. :) Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" > wrote: > > > > [One person's answers] interleaved: > > > > ** > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ancient5 wrote: > > > > 1. Where does the name "Invincible America" come from? It > > > reminded us of a slogan that might be used by a neo-fascist > > > group -- rather scary. Is it an effort to tap into the national, > > > post-9/11 paranoia for marketing purposes? Does the name > > > reflect that there is some nationalist splinter group? > > > > > [This slogan represents (apparently) Maharishi's sense of > > what is a basic concern for people today (post-9/11) and > > it's used by the TM Organizations (TMO) as a rallying cry > > for the benefits of TM and the "Maharishi Effect" (ME) to > > create world peace. > > "Invincibility" has been a TM buzzword for the > results of the Maharishi Effect since "Maharishi > Effect" itself has been a TM buzzword, starting > back in the late '70s, I believe, if not earlier. And, of course, the TM-Sidhis are taught on a "Center Invincibility Course".
[FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [One person's answers] interleaved: > > ** > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ancient5 wrote: > > 1. Where does the name "Invincible America" come from? It > > reminded us of a slogan that might be used by a neo-fascist > > group -- rather scary. Is it an effort to tap into the national, > > post-9/11 paranoia for marketing purposes? Does the name > > reflect that there is some nationalist splinter group? > > > [This slogan represents (apparently) Maharishi's sense of > what is a basic concern for people today (post-9/11) and > it's used by the TM Organizations (TMO) as a rallying cry > for the benefits of TM and the "Maharishi Effect" (ME) to > create world peace. "Invincibility" has been a TM buzzword for the results of the Maharishi Effect since "Maharishi Effect" itself has been a TM buzzword, starting back in the late '70s, I believe, if not earlier. If recent memory serves, the ongoing course in Fairfield (and Vedic City and D.C.) was dubbed "Invincible America" because MMY was predicting increasing danger for the U.S. if something wasn't done quickly to create coherence here. (I don't see that it's any more "neofascist" than American nationalism generally, but that may not be saying much.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
[One person's answers] interleaved: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ancient5 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Part of my family and I spent a recent day wandering around Fairfield, > MUM, and Jefferson County's trails. Seemed like a nice place - an > unusually vibrant small town set in a pleasant place. And, some of > the odd things we observed were wonderful - the woman being directed > to a basket of Ganesh chants in the books store, the home furnishing > store selling shrines, the word "roo," the occasional condensing of > "Maharishi" to an affectionate "Marshy," how full Revelations was of > conversing people late on a Saturday afternoon, that people had time > to chat with us and didn't seem rushed, and the unique and marvelous > "state championships" sign at the high school - one that lists much > more than sports. > > But there were some odd things that we couldn't figure out - some that > we weren't sure we understood and some that seemed vaguely sinister. > If anyone could spend a moment answering some of our question, we'd > appreciate it. I apologize if these questions offend - if they do, > it's ignorance not intention. And if we just didn't see things right, > feel free to be blunt. > > 1. Where does the name "Invincible America" come from? It reminded > us of a slogan that might be used by a neo-fascist group -- rather > scary. Is it an effort to tap into the national, post-9/11 paranoia > for marketing purposes? Does the name reflect that there is some > nationalist splinter group? > [This slogan represents (apparently) Maharishi's sense of what is a basic concern for people today (post-9/11) and it's used by the TM Organizations (TMO) as a rallying cry for the benefits of TM and the "Maharishi Effect" (ME) to create world peace. It's not entirely cynical, because Maharishi has always talked of meditation as a solution to world peace, but it does, unfortunately in my opinion, come with some sense of exploiting national paranoia. There is no splinter group of TM (unless Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's Art of Living Program could be called such), just a lot of folks who have disconnected from the TMO over the years, even if they still meditate and even if they still revere Maharishi. And, certainly, many don't do either.] > 2. Is the TM movement attracting new people at the same rate as it > did in the past? We noticed that most of the people we saw were older > than all of us - late 50s or 60s? In Revelations we saw a family with > a couple kids and two college age kids, but everyone else seemed to be > much older. On the trails, we saw a number of folks, but again, they > were generally older. Vibrant and healthy but over 50. > [There are no where near the same numbers of people learning TM as in its heydays of the late '60s and throughout the '70s. Lots of reasons why, but for many people it has no relevance for their lives and the ways in which is it promoted have failed to convince significant numbers otherwise. Many of us in our 50s and 60s have grown children who may have learned meditation but who no longer meditate. I'd speculate that a fair percentage of people on this forum do not meditate anymore, or not very regularly.] > 3. We didn't see any political bumper stickers. Is that a conscious > choice? > [No answer for this one, at least not from me.] > 4. In Revelations, it seemed that most of the people were single. Do > people move to Fairfield after their spouses die? Is there something > about TM that makes more people stay single? > [That's a real interesting question. There very well may be something about doing long time meditation that discourages or suppresses further personal involvement after a long term primary partner is no longer on the scene (in one fashion or the other). > 4. None of the women we met had short hair. We are accustomed to > seeing fairly short hair on at least a few women. Similarly, we > noticed no piercings or anything that might say "hippie." > [Maharishi and the TMO have long been strong proponents of avoiding anything that evenly faintly smacks of anything "hippie". As an old hippie, and living in a part of California where hippie culture still flourishes, I find that unfortunate.] > 5. Is there one gold dome for women and one for men? > [Yes.] > 6. Shouldn't someone paint and repair the gold domes? > [Yes. Maharishi and the TMO have been quite proficient in the creative and the destructive aspects of life, but have always been maintenance-challenge.] > 7. There were signs on the door of one of the domes stressing the > importance of turning up on time so security could be maintained - or > something like that. Why is security in the domes such a big concern? > [Good question. No answer here.] > 8. Should Vedic style houses be painted a shade of maize? The only > Vedic-style house we saw that wasn't was near the trailhead east of > the domes. It was kind of slate/blue. Why? > [Gee, I kind
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
On Jan 21, 2007, at 10:56 AM, ancient5 wrote: > I was just told that I left out three questions. Here they are: > > 15. How many TM kids go to the public school? Most of them. Either that or homeschool. > > 16. How many former TMers live in Fairfield? Are there are a > significant number? Most of the TMers still here are formers, either because of being kicked out or just growing away. > > 17. Sorry about this one . . . Do longtime TMers believe that they > will someday be able to advance to the second or third stage of yogic > flying? Seeing as how nobody's gotten past the first stage, it's pretty much of a dead topic. > > Thanks again.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Some Questions Provoked By A Visit To Fairfield
I was just told that I left out three questions. Here they are: 15. How many TM kids go to the public school? 16. How many former TMers live in Fairfield? Are there are a significant number? 17. Sorry about this one . . . Do longtime TMers believe that they will someday be able to advance to the second or third stage of yogic flying? Thanks again.
