[FairfieldLife] RE: New Vedic Translation?
For example, what do you suppose MMY would have to say about Vedic passages like this? 9.034.03 They press the crushed Soma as it pours forth its juice between the effusing stones, they milk out its juice by their acts. 9.034.04 The exhilarating Soma is to be cleansed (for the sacrifice) of Trita, and for the drinking of Indra; the green-tinted (juice) is mixed with the ingredients. [i.e., mixed with curds and milk]. 9.034.05 The son fof Pr.s'ni milk this Soma at the place of sacrifice, the most beautiful and grateful oblation (to the gods). -Mark From: mark robert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:43 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: New Vedic Translation? I’ve been reading a Vedic translation here: http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/rigveda/rvbook9.htm but am having a hard time navigating the site to find out exactly what is being translated and who is the translator (or if it’s recent). Can anyone help in that regard? Also I would be interesting in opinions of the quality/accuracy/etc. We might even begin debating the real nature of that pesky little thing called Soma that would seem to be central to the core of the vedas. -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> For example, what do you suppose MMY would have to say about
> Vedic passages like this?
>
>
>
>
>
> 9.034.03 They press the crushed Soma as it pours forth its juice
> between the effusing stones, they milk out its juice by their
> acts.
> 9.034.04 The exhilarating Soma is to be cleansed (for the
> sacrifice) of Trita, and for the drinking of Indra; the
> green-tinted (juice) is mixed with the ingredients. [i.e., mixed
> with curds and milk].
> 9.034.05 The son fof Pr.s'ni milk this Soma at the place of
> sacrifice, the most beautiful and grateful oblation (to the
> gods).
>
>
>
> -Mark
>
vR^iShaa\'NaM\` vR^iSha\'bhir ya\`taM su\`nvanti\` soma\`m
adri\'bhiH |\\
du\`hanti\` shakma\'naa\` payaH\' || \EN{9}{034}{03} \\
3 With stones [adribhiH] they press [sunvanti] the Soma [somam]
forth, the Strong [vRSaaNam] conducted [yatam] by the strong
[vRSabhiH]:
They milk [duhanti] the liquor [payaH] out with skill [shakmanaa].
bhuva\'t tri\`tasya\` marjyo\` bhuva\`d indraa\'ya matsa\`raH |\\
saM ruu\`pair a\'jyate\` hariH\' || \EN{9}{034}{04} \\
4 'Tis he whom [bhuvat] Trita must [tritasya] refine [marjyaH] , 'tis
he who shall [bhuvat] make Indra glad [indraaya matsaraH]
The Tawny One [hariH] is decked [sam...ajyate] with tints [ruupaiH]
a\`bhiim [fearless??] R^i\`tasya\' vi\`ShTapaM\' duha\`te
pR^ishni\'maataraH |\\
caaru\' pri\`yata\'maM ha\`viH || \EN{9}{034}{05} \\
5 (Him do) the Sons of Prsni [pRshni-maataraH*] (him do) milk
[duhate], the dwelling-place [viSTapam?] of sacrifice [Rtasya],
Oblation [haviH] lovely [caaru] and most dear [priyatam].
*) "the pRshni-mothered ones"
To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Cardemaister,
>
>
>
> Thank-you for the alternate translation. Is it yours?
>
Oh no, I forgot to mention it's Ralph T.H. Griffith's:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rvi09.htm
>
>
> The original you kindly supplied looks different than the
> original supplied on the site. For example, you supplied:
>
> vR^iShaa\'NaM\` vR^iSha\'bhir ya\`taM su\`nvanti\` soma\`m
> adri\'bhiH |\\
> du\`hanti\` shakma\'naa\` payaH\' || \EN{9}{034}{03} \\
>
>
>
> But the site supplied:
>
> v&;a?[ ,
> Ê/hiNt/ zKm?na/ py>? . 9 -034 -03
It seems to me that's encoded devanaagarii (the script Sanskrit
usually is written in) , or something.
I guess you need to have some Sanskrit font to see it in DN.
>
>
>
> Of course I know nothing of Sanskrit, so maybe they are the same.
>
>
>
> Anyway, I suppose that's less important than my main interest in
> the real meaning - What the heck do you suppose they were
> crushing / pressing? Yes, I know it was Soma, but how does that
> jive with something that MMY says is internal? So, then my
> question becomes If Soma was external, what was its identity?
In my understanding no-one knows for sure. For instance fly agaric
(amanita muscaria) has been suggested, but I don't think that's
very likely.
>
> -Mark
To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > _ > > From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 12:20 PM > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? > > > > > On Mar 13, 2005, at 12:10 PM, mark robert wrote: > > > > > If you believe in an external Soma and that no one knows its > real > > identity, is it not worthy of continued investigation? What, in > the > > Vedic world, would be more worthy of knowing? > > > > > > I have heard from a couple of sources on the actual soma plant. > It > supposedly can only be seen by certain people. It is a creeper > and it > only has a few leaves which change with the phases of the moon. > > Balraj Maharishi is said to be able to communicate with the > plant. > > -Vaj. > > > - > > Vaj, > > > > Yes, I have heard the same "magic creeper" rumors; it would > appear to be the sum total of the body of modern knowledge > concerning external soma, as recognized by most Vedic scholars. > > > > Is it also your belief? Do you consider this magic creeper to be > the last word on the identity of external Soma? Does it sound > like the Soma that the Rig Veda seems to be describing? It > doesn't to me. > > -Mark &&&&&&&& There is also a longstanding tradition that cannabis sativa is the soma plant. No firm opinion here. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > There is also a longstanding tradition that cannabis sativa is the soma plant. No firm > opinion here. > > L B S ** Deepak Chopra's first book, Return of the Rishi, convinced me that the soma plant is a very rare plant that grows only on slopes of the Himalayas, and grows following the cycle of the moon -- it used to be on the shelf at the Fairfield Library if you're interested. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > There is also a longstanding tradition that cannabis sativa is the > soma plant. No firm > > opinion here. > > > > L B S > > ** > > Deepak Chopra's first book, Return of the Rishi, convinced me that > the soma plant is a very rare plant that grows only on slopes of the > Himalayas, and grows following the cycle of the moon -- it used to be > on the shelf at the Fairfield Library if you're interested. Read it years ago. Don't remember for sure if the discription was the same, but I think I heard that it has X number of leaves, one of which falls off each night for X-1 nights prior to the full moon, so that on the full moon night there is only one left on the plant, and THAT is the one you want to eat. Hope I didn't just make that up. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > _ > > From: Bob Brigante [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 6:30 PM > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > There is also a longstanding tradition that cannabis sativa is > the > soma plant. No firm > > opinion here. > > > > L B S > > ** > > Deepak Chopra's first book, Return of the Rishi, convinced me > that > the soma plant is a very rare plant that grows only on slopes of > the > Himalayas, and grows following the cycle of the moon -- it used > to be > on the shelf at the Fairfield Library if you're interested. > > > - > > > > Bob, > > I didn't read it (Chopra). What was his hypothesis based on? The > Rig Veda, or other comments of commentator's commentaries? Have > you tried reading the direct Soma translations yourself? If not, > try it. What does it sound like they are describing? > -Mark ** Well, Chopra was not presenting a hypothesis, but simply identifying the soma plant, in a way that any botanist when asked would identify an oak tree -- there's no mystery about the nature and location of the soma plant among knowledgeable Vedic priests in India. It's only westerners who think soma is a mushroom or whatever. In any event, the rarity of the soma plant [Chopra notes that Balraj (? -- I have don't Chopra's book in front of me, so I don't remember the name of the Ayurveda expert Chopra mentioned) has only seen the plant once in his life] means that its location as a plant has little meaning. What is relevant is that humans produce soma when Cosmic Consciousness is gained. Mental development is complete when CC is gained, but there is further development possible on the level of the senses, and that is what soma is for -- it extends the range of the senses to celestial values, so that one can see the Self in all of Creation (as opposed to CC, when the unlimited awareness is witnessing an entirely separate material creation). When soma has done its job, and Brahman/Unity Consciousness is gained, then the body produces amrita, the nectar of immortality, which allows one to live forever in that body if desired. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > When soma has done its job, and Brahman/Unity Consciousness is > gained, then the body produces amrita, the nectar of immortality, > which allows one to live forever in that body if desired. Rgveda VIII 48, 3 (first hemistich): ápaama sómam; amRtaa abhuuma; áganma jyótir; ávidaama deváan. A.A.Macdonell: We have drunk Soma; we have become immortal; we have gone to the light; we have found gods. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > _ > > From: Bob Brigante [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 11:46 PM > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > _ > > > > From: Bob Brigante [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 6:30 PM > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > There is also a longstanding tradition that cannabis sativa > is > > the > > soma plant. No firm > > > opinion here. > > > > > > L B S > > > > ** > > > > Deepak Chopra's first book, Return of the Rishi, convinced me > > that > > the soma plant is a very rare plant that grows only on slopes > of > > the > > Himalayas, and grows following the cycle of the moon -- it used > > to be > > on the shelf at the Fairfield Library if you're interested. > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > Bob, > > > > I didn't read it (Chopra). What was his hypothesis based on? > The > > Rig Veda, or other comments of commentator's commentaries? Have > > you tried reading the direct Soma translations yourself? If > not, > > try it. What does it sound like they are describing? > > -Mark > > ** > > Well, Chopra was not presenting a hypothesis, but simply > identifying > the soma plant, in a way that any botanist when asked would > identify > an oak tree -- there's no mystery about the nature and location > of > the soma plant among knowledgeable Vedic priests in India. It's > only > westerners who think soma is a mushroom or whatever. > > In any event, the rarity of the soma plant [Chopra notes that > Balraj > (? -- I have don't Chopra's book in front of me, so I don't > remember > the name of the Ayurveda expert Chopra mentioned) has only seen > the > plant once in his life] means that its location as a plant has > little > meaning. What is relevant is that humans produce soma when Cosmic > > Consciousness is gained. Mental development is complete when CC > is > gained, but there is further development possible on the level of > the > senses, and that is what soma is for -- it extends the range of > the > senses to celestial values, so that one can see the Self in all > of > Creation (as opposed to CC, when the unlimited awareness is > witnessing an entirely separate material creation). > > When soma has done its job, and Brahman/Unity Consciousness is > gained, then the body produces amrita, the nectar of immortality, > > which allows one to live forever in that body if desired. > > > > -- > > > > Bob, > > > > It's nice that you can have so much faith in those who claim to > know Soma without supplying a sound Vedic foundation. I mean the > problem is the contrary evidence present in Vedic literature's > own main book: the Rig Veda. And virtually everyone in the Vedic > scene ignores it with some sort of weird mass-denial. In other > words, just read the first Vedic texts for your self, instead of > trusting someone else's commentary (that's probably based on > layers and layers of previous commentaries). > > > > -Mark ** I have confidence, based on my experience with the centerpiece of Vedic culture (TM), that Maharishi's revival of Vedic wisdom (the Ayurveda and Soma-explaining content of which he handed off to Chopra) is authentic -- therefore it not necessary for me to re- invent the wheel, but instead rely on people of higher consciousness to package this material for me (and, conversely, not rely on people of unknown consciousness to interpret the material for me). The Vedas are coded (Jaimini describes some of the encoding in his analysis of the Vedas) and hard to understand. >From "The Concise Srimad Bhagavatam," SUNY Press, 1989, available at http://www.21stbooks.com/ : Lord Krishna continued: "The utterances of the veda are hard to comprehend. The articulate sound of the mantra alone is not the truth. The real meaning of the veda is hidden and known only to me. Therefore, only he who is solely devoted to me, can grasp it." p. 360, Book Eleven, Ch. 21 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have confidence, based on my experience with the centerpiece of > Vedic culture (TM), that Maharishi's revival of Vedic wisdom (the > Ayurveda and Soma-explaining content of which he handed off to > Chopra) is authentic -- therefore it not necessary for me to re- > invent the wheel, but instead rely on people of higher consciousness > to package this material for me (and, conversely, not rely on people > of unknown consciousness to interpret the material for me). Bob You have clearly shown the complete surrender of your own opinion, reasoning, thought and well, I guess everything to M and whoever else meets your requirements for being "in the know". Does this restrict itself to Vedic wisdom alone? Congratulations expect your platinum, no lets make that mercury cult credit card in the mail shortly. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "easyone200" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I have confidence, based on my experience with the centerpiece of > > Vedic culture (TM), that Maharishi's revival of Vedic wisdom (the > > Ayurveda and Soma-explaining content of which he handed off to > > Chopra) is authentic -- therefore it not necessary for me to re- > > invent the wheel, but instead rely on people of higher consciousness > > to package this material for me (and, conversely, not rely on people > > of unknown consciousness to interpret the material for me). > > Bob > You have clearly shown the complete surrender of your own opinion, reasoning, thought > and well, I guess everything to M and whoever else meets your requirements for being > "in the know". Does this restrict itself to Vedic wisdom alone? > Congratulations expect your platinum, no lets make that mercury cult credit card in the > mail shortly. + Maybe with more research into the cannabis whatsis, the big bong theory will emerge. N. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > _ > > Bob, > > > > > > > > It's nice that you can have so much faith in those who claim to > > know Soma without supplying a sound Vedic foundation. I mean > the > > problem is the contrary evidence present in Vedic literature's > > own main book: the Rig Veda. And virtually everyone in the > Vedic > > scene ignores it with some sort of weird mass-denial. In other > > words, just read the first Vedic texts for your self, instead > of > > trusting someone else's commentary (that's probably based on > > layers and layers of previous commentaries). > > > > > > > > -Mark > > ** > > I have confidence, based on my experience with the centerpiece of > > Vedic culture (TM), that Maharishi's revival of Vedic wisdom (the > > Ayurveda and Soma-explaining content of which he handed off to > Chopra) is authentic -- therefore it not necessary for me to re- > invent the wheel, but instead rely on people of higher > consciousness > to package this material for me (and, conversely, not rely on > people > of unknown consciousness to interpret the material for me). > > The Vedas are coded (Jaimini describes some of the encoding in > his > analysis of the Vedas) and hard to understand. > From "The Concise Srimad Bhagavatam," SUNY Press, 1989, available > at > http://www.21stbooks.com/ : > > Lord Krishna continued: > "The utterances of the veda are hard to comprehend. The > articulate > sound of the mantra alone is not the truth. The real meaning of > the > veda is hidden and known only to me. Therefore, only he who is > solely > devoted to me, can grasp it." p. 360, Book Eleven, Ch. 21 > > > -- > > > > Bob, > > > > So you would rather believe the preachers than read the bible > yourself eh? Good luck with your salvation; you'll need it. You > are a priest's wet dream, who instructs "do not attempt to > educate yourself by trying to read that which you are incapable > of comprehending; place all your faith in my rendering of the > word of god (and while you are at it, give me your money [and > I'll give it to god] - and would you like to kiss god?..)". > > > > "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" > > > > -Mark *** The Vedas are inaccessible to people of ordinary human consciousness, as Larry Domash first suggested, it's like a hologram being inaccessible to anything but coherent (laser) light: "Collier draws several analogies between states of consciousness attained during TM and recognized quantum theoretic phenomena such as laser light and super conducting fluids. 1) Language used by psychologists to describe TMcoherent, stable, unified, pure and non- chaoticis similar to that used to describe laser light. Some studies of brain waves of meditators show a relatively correlated firing of brain cells."(more at link http://www.siue.edu/~jandris/qtcer.htm ) That's why the Vedic sages introduced the comic book version of the Vedas: the Puranas and the Mahabharata and other works, which present in plain text and easy-to-understand stories everything that is in the Vedas in coded form. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "S.A. Feite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Bob: > > > > > When soma has done its job, and Brahman/Unity Consciousness is > > gained, then the body produces amrita, the nectar of immortality, > > which allows one to live forever in that body if desired. > > What is your source for this hypothesis? MMY? ** MMY was the source for soma information (I can't give a specific reference, however, MMY has spoken many times about the fact that awareness is full in Cosmic Consciousness, and that growth beyond that state is on the level of the senses, enabled by Soma, which ultimately allows one to see the Self at every turn), source of amrita info was Bobananda. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "easyone200" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I have confidence, based on my experience with the centerpiece of > > Vedic culture (TM), that Maharishi's revival of Vedic wisdom (the > > Ayurveda and Soma-explaining content of which he handed off to > > Chopra) is authentic -- therefore it not necessary for me to re- > > invent the wheel, but instead rely on people of higher consciousness > > to package this material for me (and, conversely, not rely on people > > of unknown consciousness to interpret the material for me). > > Bob > You have clearly shown the complete surrender of your own opinion, reasoning, thought > and well, I guess everything to M and whoever else meets your requirements for being > "in the know". Does this restrict itself to Vedic wisdom alone? > Congratulations expect your platinum, no lets make that mercury cult credit card in the > mail shortly. *** Thanks, but I'm getting plenty of mercury from China: http://tinyurl.com/5g93q To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, SNIP Easyone wrote > > Bob > > You have clearly shown the complete surrender of your own opinion, > reasoning, thought > > and well, I guess everything to M and whoever else meets your > requirements for being > > "in the know". Does this restrict itself to Vedic wisdom alone? > > Congratulations expect your platinum, no lets make that mercury > cult credit card in the > > mail shortly. Bob Brigante wrote > > Thanks, but I'm getting plenty of mercury from China: > > http://tinyurl.com/5g93q Don't worry Bob if it passed over India on the way here I'm sure it became ayurvedic and is good for you. Just ask VAJ. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
From: cardemaister
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005
5:05 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New
Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark
robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> For example, what do you suppose MMY would
have to say about
> Vedic passages like this?
>
>
>
>
>
> 9.034.03 They press the crushed Soma as it
pours forth its juice
> between the effusing stones, they milk out
its juice by their
> acts.
> 9.034.04 The exhilarating Soma is to be
cleansed (for the
> sacrifice) of Trita, and for the drinking of
Indra; the
> green-tinted (juice) is mixed with the
ingredients. [i.e., mixed
> with curds and milk].
> 9.034.05 The son fof Pr.s'ni milk this Soma
at the place of
> sacrifice, the most beautiful and grateful
oblation (to the
> gods).
>
>
>
> -Mark
>
vR^iShaa\'NaM\` vR^iSha\'bhir ya\`taM su\`nvanti\`
soma\`m
adri\'bhiH |\\
du\`hanti\` shakma\'naa\` payaH\' ||
\EN{9}{034}{03} \\
3 With stones [adribhiH] they press [sunvanti] the
Soma [somam]
forth, the Strong [vRSaaNam] conducted [yatam] by
the strong
[vRSabhiH]:
They milk [duhanti] the liquor [payaH] out with
skill [shakmanaa].
bhuva\'t tri\`tasya\` marjyo\` bhuva\`d
indraa\'ya matsa\`raH |\\
saM ruu\`pair a\'jyate\` hariH\' ||
\EN{9}{034}{04} \\
4 'Tis he whom [bhuvat] Trita must [tritasya] refine
[marjyaH] , 'tis
he who shall [bhuvat] make Indra glad [indraaya
matsaraH]
The Tawny One [hariH] is decked [sam...ajyate]
with tints [ruupaiH]
a\`bhiim [fearless??] R^i\`tasya\'
vi\`ShTapaM\' duha\`te
pR^ishni\'maataraH |\\
caaru\' pri\`yata\'maM ha\`viH ||
\EN{9}{034}{05} \\
5 (Him do) the Sons of Prsni [pRshni-maataraH*]
(him do) milk
[duhate], the dwelling-place [viSTapam?] of
sacrifice [Rtasya],
Oblation [haviH] lovely [caaru] and most dear
[priyatam].
*) "the pRshni-mothered ones"
Cardemaister,
Thank-you for the alternate translation. Is
it yours?
The original you kindly supplied looks
different than the original supplied on the site. For example, you supplied:
vR^iShaa\'NaM\` vR^iSha\'bhir ya\`taM su\`nvanti\` soma\`m
adri\'bhiH |\\
du\`hanti\` shakma\'naa\` payaH\' ||
\EN{9}{034}{03} \\
But the site supplied:
v&;a?[ ,
Ê/hiNt/
zKm?na/ py>? . 9 -034 -03
Of course I know nothing of Sanskrit, so
maybe they are the same.
Anyway, I suppose that’s less important than
my main interest in the real meaning - What the heck do you suppose they were
crushing / pressing? Yes, I know it was Soma, but how does that jive with
something that MMY says is internal? So, then my question becomes – If Soma was
external, what was its identity?
-Mark
To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
From: cardemaister
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005
11:26 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New
Vedic Translation?
---
In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
"mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
Cardemaister,
>
>
>
>
Thank-you for the alternate translation. Is it yours?
>
Oh no, I
forgot to mention it's Ralph T.H. Griffith's:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rvi09.htm
>
>
> The
original you kindly supplied looks different than the
>
original supplied on the site. For example, you supplied:
>
>
vR^iShaa\'NaM\` vR^iSha\'bhir ya\`taM su\`nvanti\` soma\`m
>
adri\'bhiH |\\
>
du\`hanti\` shakma\'naa\` payaH\' || \EN{9}{034}{03} \\
>
>
>
> But the
site supplied:
>
>
v&;a?[ ,
> Ê/hiNt/
zKm?na/ py>? . 9 -034 -03
It seems to
me that's encoded devanaagarii (the script Sanskrit
usually is
written in) , or something.
I guess you
need to have some Sanskrit font to see it in DN.
>
>
>
> Of
course I know nothing of Sanskrit, so maybe they are the same.
>
>
>
> Anyway,
I suppose that's less important than my main interest in
> the
real meaning - What the heck do you suppose they were
>
crushing / pressing? Yes, I know it was Soma, but how does that
> jive
with something that MMY says is internal? So, then my
>
question becomes – If Soma was external, what was its identity?
In my
understanding no-one knows for sure. For instance fly agaric
(amanita
muscaria) has been suggested, but I don't think that's
very likely.
>
> -Mark
---
Cardemaister,
I have read Griffith’s translation before. This one seems
a bit clearer.
But both translations clearly refer to an
external Soma that is consumed. And both appear to regard this external Soma as
central to everything Vedic. (The chronology of the Rig Veda would also suggest
this.) I find it curious that amongst supposed students of Vedic literature most
of their energy is dedicated to far less central parts, whereby its core is
essentially ignored. Imagine a study of Christianity that ignored Jesus, his
plan of salvation, and the Eucharist!
If you believe in an external Soma and that
no one knows its real identity, is it not worthy of continued investigation?
What, in the Vedic world, would be more worthy of knowing?
-Mark
To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 13, 2005, at 12:10 PM, mark robert wrote: > > If you believe in an external Soma and that no one knows its real > identity, is it not worthy of continued investigation? What, in the > Vedic world, would be more worthy of knowing? > > I have heard from a couple of sources on the actual soma plant. It supposedly can only be seen by certain people. It is a creeper and it only has a few leaves which change with the phases of the moon. Balraj Maharishi is said to be able to communicate with the plant. -Vaj. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 12:20 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? On Mar 13, 2005, at 12:10 PM, mark robert wrote: > > If you believe in an external Soma and that no one knows its real > identity, is it not worthy of continued investigation? What, in the > Vedic world, would be more worthy of knowing? > > I have heard from a couple of sources on the actual soma plant. It supposedly can only be seen by certain people. It is a creeper and it only has a few leaves which change with the phases of the moon. Balraj Maharishi is said to be able to communicate with the plant. -Vaj. -- Vaj, Yes, I have heard the same “magic creeper” rumors; it would appear to be the sum total of the body of modern knowledge concerning external soma, as recognized by most Vedic scholars. Is it also your belief? Do you consider this magic creeper to be the last word on the identity of external Soma? Does it sound like the Soma that the Rig Veda seems to be describing? It doesn’t to me. -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 13, 2005, at 3:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Is it also your belief? Do you consider this magic creeper to be >> the last word on the identity of external Soma? Does it sound >> like the Soma that the Rig Veda seems to be describing? It >> doesn't to me. I have heard the same story, independently, from several sources, so I am guessing it is true--esp. since IIRC Balraj seems to say the same. There was an article, I believe in the Journal Of Vedic Studies at Harvard which gave the history of what soma was believed to be. Some of it is pretty hilarious. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
From: Bob Brigante [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 6:30 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > There is also a longstanding tradition that cannabis sativa is the soma plant. No firm > opinion here. > > L B S ** Deepak Chopra's first book, Return of the Rishi, convinced me that the soma plant is a very rare plant that grows only on slopes of the Himalayas, and grows following the cycle of the moon -- it used to be on the shelf at the Fairfield Library if you're interested. - Bob, I didn’t read it (Chopra). What was his hypothesis based on? The Rig Veda, or other comments of commentator’s commentaries? Have you tried reading the direct Soma translations yourself? If not, try it. What does it sound like they are describing? -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 7:46 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? On Mar 13, 2005, at 3:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Is it also your belief? Do you consider this magic creeper to be >> the last word on the identity of external Soma? Does it sound >> like the Soma that the Rig Veda seems to be describing? It >> doesn't to me. I have heard the same story, independently, from several sources, so I am guessing it is true--esp. since IIRC Balraj seems to say the same. There was an article, I believe in the Journal Of Vedic Studies at Harvard which gave the history of what soma was believed to be. Some of it is pretty hilarious. Vaj, Whatever those sources, the only genuine source for them would have to eventually be the Rig Veda. If you go read it for yourself, and find that you disagree with all the experts, you have succeeded in your studies. What were some of the other candidates for Soma you thought hilarious (besides the Fly Agaric mushroom)? -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
From: Bob Brigante [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 11:46 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > _ > > From: Bob Brigante [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 6:30 PM > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > There is also a longstanding tradition that cannabis sativa is > the > soma plant. No firm > > opinion here. > > > > L B S > > ** > > Deepak Chopra's first book, Return of the Rishi, convinced me > that > the soma plant is a very rare plant that grows only on slopes of > the > Himalayas, and grows following the cycle of the moon -- it used > to be > on the shelf at the Fairfield Library if you're interested. > > > - > > > > Bob, > > I didn't read it (Chopra). What was his hypothesis based on? The > Rig Veda, or other comments of commentator's commentaries? Have > you tried reading the direct Soma translations yourself? If not, > try it. What does it sound like they are describing? > -Mark ** Well, Chopra was not presenting a hypothesis, but simply identifying the soma plant, in a way that any botanist when asked would identify an oak tree -- there's no mystery about the nature and location of the soma plant among knowledgeable Vedic priests in India. It's only westerners who think soma is a mushroom or whatever. In any event, the rarity of the soma plant [Chopra notes that Balraj (? -- I have don't Chopra's book in front of me, so I don't remember the name of the Ayurveda expert Chopra mentioned) has only seen the plant once in his life] means that its location as a plant has little meaning. What is relevant is that humans produce soma when Cosmic Consciousness is gained. Mental development is complete when CC is gained, but there is further development possible on the level of the senses, and that is what soma is for -- it extends the range of the senses to celestial values, so that one can see the Self in all of Creation (as opposed to CC, when the unlimited awareness is witnessing an entirely separate material creation). When soma has done its job, and Brahman/Unity Consciousness is gained, then the body produces amrita, the nectar of immortality, which allows one to live forever in that body if desired. -- Bob, It’s nice that you can have so much faith in those who claim to know Soma without supplying a sound Vedic foundation. I mean the problem is the contrary evidence present in Vedic literature’s own main book: the Rig Veda. And virtually everyone in the Vedic scene ignores it with some sort of weird mass-denial. In other words, just read the first Vedic texts for your self, instead of trusting someone else’s commentary (that’s probably based on layers and layers of previous commentaries). -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
From: Bob Brigante [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:17 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > _ > > From: Bob Brigante [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 11:46 PM > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > _ > > > > From: Bob Brigante [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 6:30 PM > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > There is also a longstanding tradition that cannabis sativa > is > > the > > soma plant. No firm > > > opinion here. > > > > > > L B S > > > > ** > > > > Deepak Chopra's first book, Return of the Rishi, convinced me > > that > > the soma plant is a very rare plant that grows only on slopes > of > > the > > Himalayas, and grows following the cycle of the moon -- it used > > to be > > on the shelf at the Fairfield Library if you're interested. > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > Bob, > > > > I didn't read it (Chopra). What was his hypothesis based on? > The > > Rig Veda, or other comments of commentator's commentaries? Have > > you tried reading the direct Soma translations yourself? If > not, > > try it. What does it sound like they are describing? > > -Mark > > ** > > Well, Chopra was not presenting a hypothesis, but simply > identifying > the soma plant, in a way that any botanist when asked would > identify > an oak tree -- there's no mystery about the nature and location > of > the soma plant among knowledgeable Vedic priests in India. It's > only > westerners who think soma is a mushroom or whatever. > > In any event, the rarity of the soma plant [Chopra notes that > Balraj > (? -- I have don't Chopra's book in front of me, so I don't > remember > the name of the Ayurveda expert Chopra mentioned) has only seen > the > plant once in his life] means that its location as a plant has > little > meaning. What is relevant is that humans produce soma when Cosmic > > Consciousness is gained. Mental development is complete when CC > is > gained, but there is further development possible on the level of > the > senses, and that is what soma is for -- it extends the range of > the > senses to celestial values, so that one can see the Self in all > of > Creation (as opposed to CC, when the unlimited awareness is > witnessing an entirely separate material creation). > > When soma has done its job, and Brahman/Unity Consciousness is > gained, then the body produces amrita, the nectar of immortality, > > which allows one to live forever in that body if desired. > > > > -- > > > > Bob, > > > > It's nice that you can have so much faith in those who claim to > know Soma without supplying a sound Vedic foundation. I mean the > problem is the contrary evidence present in Vedic literature's > own main book: the Rig Veda. And virtually everyone in the Vedic > scene ignores it with some sort of weird mass-denial. In other > words, just read the first Vedic texts for your self, instead of > trusting someone else's commentary (that's probably based on > layers and layers of previous commentaries). > > > > -Mark ** I have confidence, based on my experience with the centerpiece of Vedic culture (TM), that Maharishi's revival of Vedic wisdom (the Ayurveda and Soma-explaining content of which he handed off to Chopra) is authentic -- therefore it not necessary for me to re- invent the wheel, but instead rely on people of higher consciousness to package this material for me (and, conversely, not rely on people of unknown consciousness to interpret the material for me). The Vedas are coded (Jaimini describes some of the encoding in his analysis of the Vedas) and hard to understand. From "The Concise Srimad Bhagavatam," SUNY Press, 1989, available at http://www.21stbooks.com/ : Lord Krishna continued: "The utterances of the veda are hard to comprehend. The articu
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > _ > > One of the articles in the Journal of Vedic studies attempted to > prove, thru this detailed > textual analysis, that soma was in fact the ephedra plant. The > real reason that the Vedic > rishis were so awake was because they were quaffing down ephedra! > The image was just > hilarious of these dreadlocked rishis, speeding there brains out > like undergrads cramming > for midterms. > > -V. > > > > > Ahhh, the real definition of "awakening". > - There is more than textual pointers that Euphedra (and cannabis) were used in ancient rites -- that involved lots of mixing, grinding and straining (echos of 9th mandala -- and many other things) . While this does not prove any link to soma, it is interesting. Ephedra herb contains various neurotransmitters or chemicals that effect neurotransmitters: 0.5-2 percent alkaloids, including ephedrine; pseudophedrine; norephedrine; norpseudoephedrine; and methylephedrine. If Soma or related substances have a physical structure, its not a stretch to hypothesize that it enables some special links between neurons, creating a special functioning of the nervous system to enhance or enable higher states. Thus, its not inconsistent, though by no means a proof, that a neuro-transmitter rich substance, when prepared in special ways, with other substances, could be a part of such higher states neuro-transmitter cocktail . The following was hidden in the large multi-link dump I provided yesterday -- which I doubt anyone waded thru due to its size. (Sorry it was so big, but lots of interesting material) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/44279 Here the excerpt on euphedra: http://www.huxley.net/soma/ archaeological evidence emerged from Russian excavations in the Kara Kum desert of Turkmenistan... known to the ancients as Margiana, the Russians uncovered a number of sites of monumental architecture dating from the second millennium BC. One of these sites, Gonur South, consists of a fortified complex of buildings, a number of private dwellings and a fort. Within this complex there is also a large shrine (known to have been used as a sacred fire temple) consisting of two parts: one clearly used for public worship and the other, hidden from the gaze of the multitude, an inner sanctum of the priesthood. In one of these private rooms were found three ceramic bowls. Analysis of samples found in these vessels by Professor Mayer-Melikyan revealed the traces of both cannabis and Ephedra. Clearly both these psychoactive substances had been used in conjunction in the making of hallucinogenic drinks. In the adjoining room of the same inner sanctum were found ten ceramic pot-stands which appear to have been used in conjunction with strainers designed to separate the juices from the twigs, stems and leaves of the plants. In another room at the other end of the shrine a basin containing remains of a considerable quantity of cannabis was discovered, as well as a number of pottery stands and strainers that have also been associated with making psychoactive beverages. The excavators believe that, given the considerable size of the fortress, the shrine may well have been dispensing the entheogenic drink to worshippers from all over Margiana in the first half of the second millennium BC These sites also yielded up other artefacts that gave tantalising clues as to what sort of rituals took place in these Bronze Age shrines. Designs on a cylinder seal depict a drummer, an acrobat and two men with the heads of monkeys. ... the discovery in the shrines of the remains of opium, cannabis and Ephedra in ritual vessels that are dated between 2000-1000 BC show that soma in its Iranian form haoma may be considered as a composite psychoactive substance comprising of cannabis and Ephedra in one instance and opium and Ephedra in another. This identification of haoma has an archaeological background which neither the fly-agaric nor Syrian rue can match, unless such evidence comes to light. Despite the considerable efforts made to discover the botanical identity of soma, it may be that this is one mystery that will never be satisfactorily solved. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
Re: ephedra with cannabis I guess you could call that a Vedic speedball. The only upper/downer combo I'm familiar with is caffeine and alcohol, and I must admit getting wired on black coffee before getting hammered drunk is quite a thrill ride. Alex, sober 9+ years To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > _ > > From: akasha_108 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:41 PM > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > _ > > > > > One of the articles in the Journal of Vedic studies attempted > to > > prove, thru this detailed > > textual analysis, that soma was in fact the ephedra plant. The > > real reason that the Vedic > > rishis were so awake was because they were quaffing down > ephedra! > > The image was just > > hilarious of these dreadlocked rishis, speeding there brains > out > > like undergrads cramming > > for midterms. > > > > -V. > > > > > > > > > > Ahhh, the real definition of "awakening". > > > - > > > There is more than textual pointers that Euphedra (and cannabis) > were > used in ancient rites -- that involved lots of mixing, grinding > and > straining (echos of 9th mandala -- and many other things) . While > this > does not prove any link to soma, it is interesting. > > -- > > Akasha, > I can't tell if you are saying that these substances might play a > roll in the explanation of the mixing and straining as described > in the 9th mandala or not. If so, you are definitely suggesting > links to Soma. I mean, the Rig Veda is/was the origin of the > word. No other definition of Soma that came later could possibly > be more accurate. > > > > -mark I am saying i was struck, in reading about the excavations, by the general similarities with 9th mandala. However, some general parallels do not a strong case (yet) make. Simply some pieces of the puzzle. And Vaj indicated some text based pointers to Euphedra. Any of these taken alone seem like straws in the wind. With more straws, perhaps a basket is formed (or at least a straining cloth) :) . And if there were just text pointers, I would laugh as Vaj did -- at the apparent narrow literal mindedness of the researchers in seeing Euphedra as a tool of awakening. However, given the ancient ritual site found with Euphedra, at a location and time where there was a branching off of migration to both India and Persia -- each with soma traditions -- it does make Euphedra an object of possibility. And it is consistent with, though of course does not in any way prove, my neuro-tranmitter cocktail hypothesis whereby the cocktail enables connections between various potential -- yet til now unactiveated -- pathways in the nervous system to "light up" in wonderous cosmic ways. (Euphedra being chock full of alkoloids and neuro-transmitter related material) Roughly, it is sort of like a CPU in a PC: an almost infinite set of potential patterns of circuits, some on, some off -- the combination makes for specific and unique states. Various software create various sequences of sets of circuit states. There undoubtedly could be some awesome, software -- yet to be coded perhaps, that could enable the CPU to do wonderous things we had not envisioned in its "normal" routine set of programs. Thats what the neuotransmitter cocktail would be -- software for the cicuits of the brain that make it fire up and run in new, powerful, profound and cosmic ways we don't normally experience using our daily software / neurotransmitter mixes. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If so, you are definitely suggesting > > links to Soma. I mean, the Rig Veda is/was the origin of the > > word. No other definition of Soma that came later could possibly > > be more accurate. I am not sure why oldest is best. It may be. But I would think any direct account of its use or creation would be useful. Are you under the impression that Soma only existed in Rig Veda times? I don't know that it did or did not, though I speculate that it has been formulated in its outer form at various times through the ages. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Ephedra
Ephedra is the Mua hang plant used in Chinese medicene. It basically counter acts Kapha and is excellent for people with breathing disorders ie mucus and colds. It helps in weight loss and therefore I bought out the market before it became illegal to sell. I find that caffiene has a much stronger effect on making my heart race than ephedra. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
There is also a longstanding tradition that cannabis sativa is the soma plant. No firm opinion here.L B S---Nah, never heard that and I've spent years at the Shroomery, Bluelight, Nanooks, and so on you get the idea. The plant most often thought of as soma is the beautiful amanita. Of course we know better and it's thought that soma is Sarcostema brevifolia, an extint plant, a relative of Ephedra. Prolly a great lift during very long chanting sessions.To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
> Well there is a very old tradition of soma which may date to > pre-Vedic > times, and that is the Soma-siddhanta. It is a tantric practice > and > centers around a bizarre etymology of the word soma. In tantra, > different approaches to the state of Unity will be concealed by > two > words joined together in one word. In Soma-siddhanta, soma is > actually > the compound sa-Umaa, that is Shiva and Uma conjoined. > > Their nectar of union is soma. > > -Vaj. Funny coincidence, in Finnish "sauma" means 'seam; joint'. OTOH, "soma" means 'pretty, sweet, nice', but it's pronounced with a short o-sound, as opposed to Skt "soma", pronounced with a long o-sound, approx. like "saw-ma", but with more "kissing" lips, or stuff. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
From: akasha_108 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:41 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > _ > > One of the articles in the Journal of Vedic studies attempted to > prove, thru this detailed > textual analysis, that soma was in fact the ephedra plant. The > real reason that the Vedic > rishis were so awake was because they were quaffing down ephedra! > The image was just > hilarious of these dreadlocked rishis, speeding there brains out > like undergrads cramming > for midterms. > > -V. > > > > > Ahhh, the real definition of "awakening". > - There is more than textual pointers that Euphedra (and cannabis) were used in ancient rites -- that involved lots of mixing, grinding and straining (echos of 9th mandala -- and many other things) . While this does not prove any link to soma, it is interesting. -- Akasha, I can’t tell if you are saying that these substances might play a roll in the explanation of the mixing and straining as described in the 9th mandala or not. If so, you are definitely suggesting links to Soma. I mean, the Rig Veda is/was the origin of the word. No other definition of Soma that came later could possibly be more accurate. -mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
On Mar 14, 2005, at 8:10 PM, akasha_108 wrote: > Are you under the impression that Soma only existed in Rig Veda times? > I don't know that it did or did not, though I speculate that it has > been formulated in its outer form at various times through the ages. Well there is a very old tradition of soma which may date to pre-Vedic times, and that is the Soma-siddhanta. It is a tantric practice and centers around a bizarre etymology of the word soma. In tantra, different approaches to the state of Unity will be concealed by two words joined together in one word. In Soma-siddhanta, soma is actually the compound sa-Umaa, that is Shiva and Uma conjoined. Their nectar of union is soma. -Vaj. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Ephedra
On Mar 14, 2005, at 9:44 PM, m2smart4u2000 wrote: > Ephedra is the Mua hang plant used in Chinese medicene. It basically > counter acts Kapha and is excellent for people with breathing > disorders ie mucus and colds. It helps in weight loss and therefore > I bought out the market before it became illegal to sell. I find > that caffiene has a much stronger effect on making my heart race > than ephedra. You might like somalata rasayana then. It is more balanced than just the raw plant extract and quite delicious. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
From: akasha_108 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 8:10 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If so, you are definitely suggesting > > links to Soma. I mean, the Rig Veda is/was the origin of the > > word. No other definition of Soma that came later could possibly > > be more accurate. I am not sure why oldest is best. It may be. But I would think any direct account of its use or creation would be useful. Are you under the impression that Soma only existed in Rig Veda times? I don't know that it did or did not, though I speculate that it has been formulated in its outer form at various times through the ages. -- Akasha, Oldest is best when it comes to trying to understand the original meaning of a word. Reasonably, the oldest appearance of the word would be the closest a researcher could come to discovering its original definition. I am under the impression that the word “Soma” first appeared in the Rig Veda. Am I wrong (with my chronology)? Is not the Rig the oldest Veda? Did “Soma” appear before then? If so, in what text(s)? As far as whether the substance Soma pre-dated the word Soma, I would imagine it did. But that gets us nowhere in our search for the identification of it. -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 8:19 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra On Mar 14, 2005, at 8:10 PM, akasha_108 wrote: > Are you under the impression that Soma only existed in Rig Veda times? > I don't know that it did or did not, though I speculate that it has > been formulated in its outer form at various times through the ages. Well there is a very old tradition of soma which may date to pre-Vedic times, and that is the Soma-siddhanta. It is a tantric practice and centers around a bizarre etymology of the word soma. In tantra, different approaches to the state of Unity will be concealed by two words joined together in one word. In Soma-siddhanta, soma is actually the compound sa-Umaa, that is Shiva and Uma conjoined. Their nectar of union is soma. -Vaj. - Vaj, This is interesting. Tell me more about “Soma-siddhanta”. I could not find anything about its history. You call it a tradition and a practice. Is it a book or texts? What is its liturgical basis? You say it could be older than the Vedas. Upon what do you base this? We know Shiva, but what is “Uma”? -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
On Mar 14, 2005, at 11:38 PM, mark robert wrote: Vaj, This is interesting. Tell me more about “Soma-siddhanta”. I could not find anything about its history. You call it a tradition and a practice. Is it a book or texts? What is its liturgical basis? You say it could be older than the Vedas. Upon what do you base this? We know Shiva, but what is “Uma”? Mark: Uma is "Parvati". They reside, in Union, in the thousand-petalled lotus. Soma-siddhanta primarily appears in Kashmir Shaivism. It is a doctrine concerning soma and different aspects of yogic practice. Some concern the goddess Sarasvati. It is also known as Soma-tantra. Some texts consider it an heretical doctrine. While these probably represent streams of oral tradition, some of these trads., esp. the Kapalika (a Shaivite sect) ones found there way into Tibet to become the Vajrayana. The texts which refer to Some-siddhanta are very obscure, so probably not worth mentioning, but we have mention of Soma-siddhanta in numerous KS texts as well as some of the Puranas. Giuseppe Tucci has found elements of Soma-tantra in both China and Tibet. There is also some solid evidence, I am told, that the sama--the actual "Vedic" hymns were pre-Vedic, dating from the stone age basically. They were co-opted and codified by the Aryans. -Vaj
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
There is also some solid evidence, I am told, that the sama--the actual "Vedic" hymns were pre-Vedic, dating from the stone age basically. They were co-opted and codified by the Aryans.-Vaj Yeah, that pipilikamaddya has a real nice beat. Step upon their heads like frogs under the water like frogs under the water. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
On Mar 15, 2005, at 9:45 AM, cardemaister wrote: > Funny coincidence, in Finnish "sauma" means 'seam; joint'. > OTOH, "soma" means 'pretty, sweet, nice', but it's pronounced > with a short o-sound, as opposed to Skt "soma", pronounced with > a long o-sound, approx. like "saw-ma", but with more "kissing" > lips, or stuff. Interesting, esp. given the possible connection to the myth of Kvasir. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
That's funny Cardypuss. - Original Message - From: cardemaister To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:45 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra > Well there is a very old tradition of soma which may date to> pre-Vedic > times, and that is the Soma-siddhanta. It is a tantric practice> and > centers around a bizarre etymology of the word soma. In tantra, > different approaches to the state of Unity will be concealed by> two > words joined together in one word. In Soma-siddhanta, soma is> actually > the compound sa-Umaa, that is Shiva and Uma conjoined.> > Their nectar of union is soma.> > -Vaj.Funny coincidence, in Finnish "sauma" means 'seam; joint'.OTOH, "soma" means 'pretty, sweet, nice', but it's pronouncedwith a short o-sound, as opposed to Skt "soma", pronounced witha long o-sound, approx. like "saw-ma", but with more "kissing"lips, or stuff.To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra
From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 10:21 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? Euphedra On Mar 15, 2005, at 9:45 AM, cardemaister wrote: > Funny coincidence, in Finnish "sauma" means 'seam; joint'. > OTOH, "soma" means 'pretty, sweet, nice', but it's pronounced > with a short o-sound, as opposed to Skt "soma", pronounced with > a long o-sound, approx. like "saw-ma", but with more "kissing" > lips, or stuff. Interesting, esp. given the possible connection to the myth of Kvasir. Vaj, What exactly is the possible connection between cardemaister’s post and the myth of Kvasir? -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
