Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Oh Buck, you're just being negative about *free thinking*. On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 7:55 PM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Clearly by the weight of science; in a modern world the facilitating, protecting and guaranteeing the transcendence experience for all humankind is quite the proper role of government and civil public policy; inalienable regardless of race, creed, religion.. . -Buck These negative folks should just get over their own little ideology for a much larger point of view that is modern, scientific and ultimately spiritual American. All rolled in to one simple program, quiet time in the schools and workplaces of our country. -Buck Om, this seems quite some nasty little work by MJ and his anti-science friends against quiet time. By experience in knowing all the good and all the science now around taking quiet time for meditating I'd say their work is a crime against humanity; Criminal with a capital “C” 'Crime' against civil society. This is shameful work they are doing against transcendentalism and humanity. If anything is anti-American that work evidently is that. -Buck Woe is that Quiet-time meditation GAP we will endure with other competitive countries in the world if these anti-science nuts have their way kicking quiet time out of schools. If you understand the science now on meditation then it would be no good to fall in to a quiet time meditation gap in our schools and workplaces behind our trading partners and these emerging economies now. -Buck RJW writes: It looks like MJ is somebody that has no idea what's going on in our public schools these days. Apparently he's not much into education. Go figure. Old history of evangelical christians hating on meditation. Going back with TM even to Berkeley, California 1960's days and their inception of the NJ. Court case back then. This methodical assault on science and schools by a small group of small-minded people smells of christian rats. Prove to me my nose is wrong. I bet you can't. =Buck mjackson74 writes: why do you assume she is a Christian? I feel it is a bad thing when a few christian nuts could derail professional educators from employing meditation a quiet time in schools as part of educational design. It defies good science with their religious non-sense. -Buck Yep, it is true a quiet-time Gap in education evidently is opening even with developing nations in Central and South America too. This is not good at all for us North Americans. This bigoted ignorance of a few overly religious people against good public education puts us all once again in an extremely bad competitive position in the world economies. These anti-science religious nuts are being extremely dangerous to everyone in opposing quiet-time meditation in schools. -Buck Yes, I worry for a future Quiet-time-transcending-Meditation-Gapthat America is going to suffer because of these idiot cultist christians if we as Americans cannot keep up with the Chinese, Japanese and others all around the Pacific rim who are adopting transcending meditation in to their economies for their students on good scientific grounds. -Buck awoelflebater writes: I have to sort of agree with you on this subject regarding this one mother who objected to TM because of the danger that it might be based in some sort of religion. She sounds narrow minded and fearful to me. I think a few minutes of TM quiet time for most schools would be beneficial. It might actually get these kids off their phones for a whole 20 minutes. I don't applaud this woman, I think there are millions out there exactly like her - unimaginative, unexposed to much beyond white bread American values and otherwise stuck in the mud. I'll go further to conjecture she's a middle class Republican. punditster writes: On 3/23/2014 1:31 AM, LEnglish5 wrote: There's a huge concerted effort (by the massive 26 members) to attempt to sabotage any and all QUiet Time Schools in San Francisco. Mjackson is apparently a member. https://www.facebook.com/pages/SF-Parents-Against-TM-in-Public-Schools/201123776750702 In case you didn't know, M. Jackson is apparently working for John Knapp at TM-Free. Is there much of any truth to MJ's counter-revolutionary poison? . .
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Are we talking about the same reason [given] here? As I understand it (paraphrasing), there are several issues addressed by the TM teacher performing the TM pujja at the start of teachign TM, including: 1) it gives Maharishi a spiritual loophole where teh TM teacher dedicates teh entire TM teaching process to Maharishi's teacher, thereby sidestepping the issue where someone of Maharishi's caste can't be a guru. 2) it reminds the teacher that there's a Tradition of Masters that the teacher is acting on behalf of, and that he should behave accordingly. 3) the actual ritual is supposed to create a samadhi-in-action state so that teh TM teacher is performing the all-important first step of teaching TM as, at last for that instant, an enlightened sage. Have I missed any purpose that you believe is relevant? L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Are you surprised that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who spent 13 years in a Hindu monastary with a priminent Hindu spiritual leader, and who founded a spiritual organization dedicated to the memory of his teacher, and dedicated to spreading his teacher's interpretation of Hindu spirituality to the world, is indeed a Hindu Zealot? The issue, of course, is: does that make TM a religion? L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
How can you possibly say that? The TM puja means what maharishi says it means. He said it was to be used to keep the purity of the teaching so therefore, it is meant to keep the purity of teh teaching.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Speaking as a Unitarian-Universalist, the broadest interpretation of Hinduism and Uni-Unism becomes pretty much identical. Unless you specifically believe that a specific interpretation of a specific book/writing/tradition is valid, and no other, or that the non-believer equivalent, hardcore atheism, is valid, Unitarian-Universalism is about the only game in town. Likewise, a universalist attitude towards Hinduism seems the only way to go, also. YMMV, of course. (and was Maharishi a universalist or a fundamentalist in his Hinduism? another interesting topic for discussion... ) L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
I know a fellow from Pakistan named Fali Engineer. He was the national leader of Pakistan for several years and was trained by Maharishi to teach TM and by Satyannand to teach the TM sidhi program. Fali told me that he taught both TM and Sidhis there without the Puja. H , interesting, no? M was quite fond of Fali and I'm pretty darned sure Fali wasn't acting on his own. Pretty sure M gave permission to teach TM and Sidhis without Puja due to Pakistan being a Muslim nation and Muslims might be offended by Puja. Some how, I don't think M would have given permission to do this if the *teaching* wouldn't take. But... who knows? On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 6:39 AM, lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net wrote: Are we talking about the same reason [given] here? As I understand it (paraphrasing), there are several issues addressed by the TM teacher performing the TM pujja at the start of teachign TM, including: 1) it gives Maharishi a spiritual loophole where teh TM teacher dedicates teh entire TM teaching process to Maharishi's teacher, thereby sidestepping the issue where someone of Maharishi's caste can't be a guru. 2) it reminds the teacher that there's a Tradition of Masters that the teacher is acting on behalf of, and that he should behave accordingly. 3) the actual ritual is supposed to create a samadhi-in-action state so that teh TM teacher is performing the all-important first step of teaching TM as, at last for that instant, an enlightened sage. Have I missed any purpose that you believe is relevant? L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Exactly what are the mechanics by which the puja keeps the purity of the teaching? Simply saying x does y does not show that that actually happens. Seeing the results of the purity of the teaching here on FFL makes one wonder more than a bit. What in fact IS the purity of the teaching? What is done? What is said? The result? I would think ultimately, the result would be the proof. 'The proof of the pudding is in the eating.' Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness. So who but Maharishi knew what he meant? If it means what Maharishi says it means, that means everyone must be in Maharishi's state of consciousness (or rather the one he used to be in), to know exactly what he meant by this. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : How can you possibly say that? The TM puja means what maharishi says it means. He said it was to be used to keep the purity of the teaching so therefore, it is meant to keep the purity of teh teaching.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
It appears some cognitive dissonance is setting in with Jude and Willytex. Not sure how many times I have to say it; my mantra is in many a book on mantra's and translates as an invocation to the goddess Lakshmi, say it 1000 times and she'll come to my aid. Apparently. That's the idea anyway. Feel free to continue saying everyone else is wrong ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Not the bija mantras. Good point, especially when you take the actual meaning of mantras into account. The mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning. Right, they just happen to be identical to some that do.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools It appears some cognitive dissonance is setting in with Jude and Willytex. Not sure how many times I have to say it; my mantra is in many a book on mantra's and translates as an invocation to the goddess Lakshmi, say it 1000 times and she'll come to my aid. Apparently. That's the idea anyway. Feel free to continue saying everyone else is wrong Cognitive dissonance dealt with -- or rather NOT dealt with -- by paddling their leaky boats even further up the river Denial. Speaking as what neither of them is or ever was -- a TM teacher -- I confirm your contention that one can find *all* of the TM mantras in books of Indian mantras, along with the Hindu god or goddess each is associated with, and who you invoke each time you think or say the mantra. But since we're talking primarily about the U.S. Constitution here, and its prohibition of organized religion in schools, let's remind the other non-TM teachers here what was invoked when they learned TM, and when any one of the students in these schools learns TM. TM *cannot* be taught without this ceremony, and without the student participating in it. All TM teachers *know* what it says, because they not only had to memorize the Sanskrit, they had to memorize the English (or their native language) version, and were told explicitly to hold it lively in their minds while chanting the Sanskrit version. Thus they have no excuse for pretending that it's not religious in both origin and intent. Invocation: Whether pure or impure, whether all places are permeated by purity or impurity, Whoever opens himself to the expanded vision of unbounded awareness gains inner and outer purity. Invocation: To Lord Narayana, to lotus-born Brahma the Creator, to Vasishtha, to SHAKTI and his son, Parashara, to Vyasa, to Shukadeva, to the great GaudaPada, to Govinda, ruler among yogis, from him to his disciple, Shri Shankaracharya, from him to his disciples, Padma Pada and Hastamalaka, to him, Trotakacharya and Vartika-Kara, to others, to the eternal tradition of our abode of the wisdom of the Shrutis, Smritis and Purana, to the abode of compassion, to the personified glory of the Lord, to Shankara, emancipator of the world, I bow down. To Shankaracharya, the Emancipator, adored as Krishna and Badarayana, to the two authors of the commentary on the Brahma Sutras, I bow down To both expressions of the Divine, in Shankara, I bow down again and again At whose door the whole galaxy of gods pray for perfection day and night Adorned with immeasurable glory, preceptor of the whole world, having bowed to Him we gain complete fulfillment. Skilled in dispelling the cloud of ignorance of the people, the bestower of happiness, the glorious emancipator, Brahmananda Sarasvati, full of brilliance, Him I bring to my awareness. Offering the invocation to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a seat to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a ablution to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering cloth to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering sandalpaste to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offereing full rice to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a flower to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering incense to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering light to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering water to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering fruit to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering water to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a betel leaf to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a coconut to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down Offering camphor light. White as camphor, the incarnation of kindness, the essence of creation garlanded by the Serpent-King. Ever dwelling in the lotus of my heart, Lord Shiva with Mother Divine to Him I bow down. Offering light to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering water to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a handful of flowers Guru Dev is the glory of Brahma the Creator, Lord Vishnu the Maintainer, and the great Lord Shiva Guru is the glory of the Supreme Transcendent personified, to Him, to the glory of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. The Unbounded, like the endless canopy of the sky, the omnipresent in all creation, the sign of That has been revealed, to Him, to Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Guru Dev, Shri Brahmananda, Guru Dev, in the glory of the bliss of the Absolute, in the glory of transcendental joy, in the glory of Unity, the very embodiment of knowledge, who is beyond the universe like the sky, as the goal of that thou art and other (Shrutis which grant eternal unity of life
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
When one is on TTC does one get taught the mantra meanings or taught that they are meaningless sounds? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools It appears some cognitive dissonance is setting in with Jude and Willytex. Not sure how many times I have to say it; my mantra is in many a book on mantra's and translates as an invocation to the goddess Lakshmi, say it 1000 times and she'll come to my aid. Apparently. That's the idea anyway. Feel free to continue saying everyone else is wrong Cognitive dissonance dealt with -- or rather NOT dealt with -- by paddling their leaky boats even further up the river Denial. Speaking as what neither of them is or ever was -- a TM teacher -- I confirm your contention that one can find *all* of the TM mantras in books of Indian mantras, along with the Hindu god or goddess each is associated with, and who you invoke each time you think or say the mantra. But since we're talking primarily about the U.S. Constitution here, and its prohibition of organized religion in schools, let's remind the other non-TM teachers here what was invoked when they learned TM, and when any one of the students in these schools learns TM. TM *cannot* be taught without this ceremony, and without the student participating in it. All TM teachers *know* what it says, because they not only had to memorize the Sanskrit, they had to memorize the English (or their native language) version, and were told explicitly to hold it lively in their minds while chanting the Sanskrit version. Thus they have no excuse for pretending that it's not religious in both origin and intent. Invocation: Whether pure or impure, whether all places are permeated by purity or impurity, Whoever opens himself to the expanded vision of unbounded awareness gains inner and outer purity. Invocation: To Lord Narayana, to lotus-born Brahma the Creator, to Vasishtha, to SHAKTI and his son, Parashara, to Vyasa, to Shukadeva, to the great GaudaPada, to Govinda, ruler among yogis, from him to his disciple, Shri Shankaracharya, from him to his disciples, Padma Pada and Hastamalaka, to him, Trotakacharya and Vartika-Kara, to others, to the eternal tradition of our abode of the wisdom of the Shrutis, Smritis and Purana, to the abode of compassion, to the personified glory of the Lord, to Shankara, emancipator of the world, I bow down. To Shankaracharya, the Emancipator, adored as Krishna and Badarayana, to the two authors of the commentary on the Brahma Sutras, I bow down To both expressions of the Divine, in Shankara, I bow down again and again At whose door the whole galaxy of gods pray for perfection day and night Adorned with immeasurable glory, preceptor of the whole world, having bowed to Him we gain complete fulfillment. Skilled in dispelling the cloud of ignorance of the people, the bestower of happiness, the glorious emancipator, Brahmananda Sarasvati, full of brilliance, Him I bring to my awareness. Offering the invocation to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a seat to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a ablution to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering cloth to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering sandalpaste to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offereing full rice to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a flower to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering incense to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering light to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering water to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering fruit to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering water to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a betel leaf to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a coconut to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down Offering camphor light. White as camphor, the incarnation of kindness, the essence of creation garlanded by the Serpent-King. Ever dwelling in the lotus of my heart, Lord Shiva with Mother Divine to Him I bow down. Offering light to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering water to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a handful of flowers Guru Dev is the glory of Brahma the Creator, Lord Vishnu the Maintainer, and the great Lord Shiva Guru is the glory of the Supreme Transcendent personified, to Him, to the glory of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. The Unbounded, like the endless canopy of the sky, the omnipresent in all creation, the sign of That has been revealed, to Him, to Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Guru Dev, Shri Brahmananda, Guru Dev, in the glory of the bliss of the Absolute, in the glory
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools When one is on TTC does one get taught the mantra meanings or taught that they are meaningless sounds? A good question. On my teacher training course, we were NOT taught the real meanings of the mantras, only what to say when people asked about them, that they were meaningless sounds. So the lying about their origins and real meanings is NOT just to people learning the TM technique, it was to people learning how to teach it as well. The puja, however, EVERYONE knew the meaning of. Thus when they told their students that there was nothing religious about the puja, they were lying. They still are, to the administrators of these Quiet Time schools, to the students learning TM, and to their parents. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools It appears some cognitive dissonance is setting in with Jude and Willytex. Not sure how many times I have to say it; my mantra is in many a book on mantra's and translates as an invocation to the goddess Lakshmi, say it 1000 times and she'll come to my aid. Apparently. That's the idea anyway. Feel free to continue saying everyone else is wrong Cognitive dissonance dealt with -- or rather NOT dealt with -- by paddling their leaky boats even further up the river Denial. Speaking as what neither of them is or ever was -- a TM teacher -- I confirm your contention that one can find *all* of the TM mantras in books of Indian mantras, along with the Hindu god or goddess each is associated with, and who you invoke each time you think or say the mantra. But since we're talking primarily about the U.S. Constitution here, and its prohibition of organized religion in schools, let's remind the other non-TM teachers here what was invoked when they learned TM, and when any one of the students in these schools learns TM. TM *cannot* be taught without this ceremony, and without the student participating in it. All TM teachers *know* what it says, because they not only had to memorize the Sanskrit, they had to memorize the English (or their native language) version, and were told explicitly to hold it lively in their minds while chanting the Sanskrit version. Thus they have no excuse for pretending that it's not religious in both origin and intent. Invocation: Whether pure or impure, whether all places are permeated by purity or impurity, Whoever opens himself to the expanded vision of unbounded awareness gains inner and outer purity. Invocation: To Lord Narayana, to lotus-born Brahma the Creator, to Vasishtha, to SHAKTI and his son, Parashara, to Vyasa, to Shukadeva, to the great GaudaPada, to Govinda, ruler among yogis, from him to his disciple, Shri Shankaracharya, from him to his disciples, Padma Pada and Hastamalaka, to him, Trotakacharya and Vartika-Kara, to others, to the eternal tradition of our abode of the wisdom of the Shrutis, Smritis and Purana, to the abode of compassion, to the personified glory of the Lord, to Shankara, emancipator of the world, I bow down. To Shankaracharya, the Emancipator, adored as Krishna and Badarayana, to the two authors of the commentary on the Brahma Sutras, I bow down To both expressions of the Divine, in Shankara, I bow down again and again At whose door the whole galaxy of gods pray for perfection day and night Adorned with immeasurable glory, preceptor of the whole world, having bowed to Him we gain complete fulfillment. Skilled in dispelling the cloud of ignorance of the people, the bestower of happiness, the glorious emancipator, Brahmananda Sarasvati, full of brilliance, Him I bring to my awareness. Offering the invocation to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a seat to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a ablution to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering cloth to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering sandalpaste to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offereing full rice to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a flower to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering incense to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering light to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering water to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering fruit to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering water to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a betel leaf to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a coconut to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down Offering camphor light. White as camphor
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
The significance of a pujah is whatever the hell the person doing the pujah says it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4b3hfoUUNQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4b3hfoUUNQ
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
From: lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools The significance of a pujah is whatever the hell the person doing the pujah says it is: Well, then since the translation of the TM puja I just posted is essentially the same as the one given to me by the people teaching me to perform it (Maharishi and the TM movement), I suggest that they're pretty much saying that its significance was religious. It *does*, after all, contain the names of numerous Hindu gods, not to mention various Hindu saints and teachers, and it *does* say that in performing the puja we are bowing down to them. I've gone right to the source here, Lawson. Do you have a problem with how Maharishi *himself* translated the words of the puja? Do you somehow believe that when he's mentioning Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva and bowing down to them he's talking about something *else*? Like maybe Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva were the names of his pet dogs when he was a kid? :-) I know by now that any rational arguments are lost on you, and that you'll die as much of a True Believer in all of this shit as you are today, but I post these things for the sane people here, not the ones like you. You never became a TM teacher. You never sat in rooms and practiced chanting these Sanskrit words day after day after day, *while keeping the meanings of them you'd been given by your instructors lively in your mind as you had been instructed to do*. You thus never experienced any cognitive dissonance when you were then told to tell prospective students and the press that No, there is *nothing* religious about the puja. Intellectually, you know I'm right. It's just that emotionally you can't cope with accepting it, because to do so will mean acknowledgment that 1) you were lied to, and 2) you have turned around and lied to hundreds or thousands of others by parroting what you were told to believe about the puja and its non-religious nature all these years. I *understand* why you avoid dealing with the reality of the situation, Lawson. You have invested in believing what you were told to believe so long that you're terrified that if you ever stop believing those things and parroting these things, there will be nothing left of you. But it's not true. You'll only really become you when you start thinking for yourself. Unfortunately, I don't think that's likely to happen for you in this lifetime...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
I'll say again, and make it more explicit (obviously you didn't bother watching teh video): it doesn't matter what the words say. All that matters is the reason given for performing the stupid thing. Maharishi gave a reason. TM teachers agreed to accept that reason. End of story. Literally. End. Of. Story.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
From: lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools I'll say again, and make it more explicit (obviously you didn't bother watching teh video): it doesn't matter what the words say. All that matters is the reason given for performing the stupid thing. Maharishi gave a reason. TM teachers agreed to accept that reason. End of story. Literally. End. Of. Story. TM teachers who agreed to accept that reason are in my considered opinion cultists, and not completely sane. End of story. Literally. End. Of. Story.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Thanks for posting that Barry - sums it up very well. On Tue, 3/25/14, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2014, 7:55 AM From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools It appears some cognitive dissonance is setting in with Jude and Willytex. Not sure how many times I have to say it; my mantra is in many a book on mantra's and translates as an invocation to the goddess Lakshmi, say it 1000 times and she'll come to my aid. Apparently. That's the idea anyway. Feel free to continue saying everyone else is wrong Cognitive dissonance dealt with -- or rather NOT dealt with -- by paddling their leaky boats even further up the river Denial. Speaking as what neither of them is or ever was -- a TM teacher -- I confirm your contention that one can find *all* of the TM mantras in books of Indian mantras, along with the Hindu god or goddess each is associated with, and who you invoke each time you think or say the mantra. But since we're talking primarily about the U.S. Constitution here, and its prohibition of organized religion in schools, let's remind the other non-TM teachers here what was invoked when they learned TM, and when any one of the students in these schools learns TM. TM *cannot* be taught without this ceremony, and without the student participating in it. All TM teachers *know* what it says, because they not only had to memorize the Sanskrit, they had to memorize the English (or their native language) version, and were told explicitly to hold it lively in their minds while chanting the Sanskrit version. Thus they have no excuse for pretending that it's not religious in both origin and intent. Invocation: Whether pure or impure, whether all places are permeated by purity or impurity, Whoever opens himself to the expanded vision of unbounded awareness gains inner and outer purity. Invocation: To Lord Narayana, to lotus-born Brahma the Creator, to Vasishtha, to SHAKTI and his son, Parashara, to Vyasa, to Shukadeva, to the great GaudaPada, to Govinda, ruler among yogis, from him to his disciple, Shri Shankaracharya, from him to his disciples, Padma Pada and Hastamalaka, to him, Trotakacharya and Vartika-Kara, to others, to the eternal tradition of our abode of the wisdom of the Shrutis, Smritis and Purana, to the abode of compassion, to the personified glory of the Lord, to Shankara, emancipator of the world, I bow down. To Shankaracharya, the Emancipator, adored as Krishna and Badarayana, to the two authors of the commentary on the Brahma Sutras, I bow down To both expressions of the Divine, in Shankara, I bow down again and again At whose door the whole galaxy of gods pray for perfection day and night Adorned with immeasurable glory, preceptor of the whole world, having bowed to Him we gain complete fulfillment. Skilled in dispelling the cloud of ignorance of the people, the bestower of happiness, the glorious emancipator, Brahmananda Sarasvati, full of brilliance, Him I bring to my awareness. Offering the invocation to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a seat to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a ablution to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering cloth to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering sandalpaste to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offereing full rice to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a flower to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering incense to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering light to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering water to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering fruit to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering water to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a betel leaf to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a coconut to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down Offering camphor light. White as camphor, the incarnation of kindness, the essence of creation garlanded by the Serpent-King. Ever dwelling in the lotus of my heart, Lord Shiva with Mother Divine to Him I bow down. Offering light to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering water to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. Offering a handful of flowers Guru Dev is the glory of Brahma the Creator, Lord Vishnu the Maintainer, and the great Lord Shiva Guru
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
When I talked on the phone to Mark Landau (Marshy's personal secretary for five years) he was emphatic that during the TTC's he helped to run, the teachers were absolutely NOT told the meaning of the mantras, he felt Marshy deliberately withheld the info to keep the teachers in the dark. For what its worth, in this time w M, Mark said it was clear the Big Cheese was a Hindu zealot. On Tue, 3/25/14, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2014, 9:06 AM From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools When one is on TTC does one get taught the mantra meanings or taught that they are meaningless sounds? A good question. On my teacher training course, we were NOT taught the real meanings of the mantras, only what to say when people asked about them, that they were meaningless sounds. So the lying about their origins and real meanings is NOT just to people learning the TM technique, it was to people learning how to teach it as well. The puja, however, EVERYONE knew the meaning of. Thus when they told their students that there was nothing religious about the puja, they were lying. They still are, to the administrators of these Quiet Time schools, to the students learning TM, and to their parents. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools It appears some cognitive dissonance is setting in with Jude and Willytex. Not sure how many times I have to say it; my mantra is in many a book on mantra's and translates as an invocation to the goddess Lakshmi, say it 1000 times and she'll come to my aid. Apparently. That's the idea anyway. Feel free to continue saying everyone else is wrong Cognitive dissonance dealt with -- or rather NOT dealt with -- by paddling their leaky boats even further up the river Denial. Speaking as what neither of them is or ever was -- a TM teacher -- I confirm your contention that one can find *all* of the TM mantras in books of Indian mantras, along with the Hindu god or goddess each is associated with, and who you invoke each time you think or say the mantra. But since we're talking primarily about the U.S. Constitution here, and its prohibition of organized religion in schools, let's remind the other non-TM teachers here what was invoked when they learned TM, and when any one of the students in these schools learns TM. TM *cannot* be taught without this ceremony, and without the student participating in it. All TM teachers *know* what it says, because they not only had to memorize the Sanskrit, they had to memorize the English (or their native language) version, and were told explicitly to hold it lively in their minds while chanting the Sanskrit version. Thus they have no excuse for pretending that it's not religious in both origin and intent. Invocation: Whether pure or impure, whether all places are permeated by purity or impurity, Whoever opens himself to the expanded vision of unbounded awareness gains inner and outer purity. Invocation: To Lord Narayana, to lotus-born Brahma the Creator, to Vasishtha, to SHAKTI and his son, Parashara, to Vyasa, to Shukadeva, to the great GaudaPada, to Govinda, ruler among yogis, from him to his disciple, Shri Shankaracharya, from him to his disciples, Padma Pada and Hastamalaka, to him, Trotakacharya and Vartika-Kara, to others, to the eternal tradition of our abode of the wisdom of the Shrutis, Smritis and Purana, to the abode of compassion, to the personified glory of the Lord, to Shankara, emancipator of the world, I bow down. To Shankaracharya, the Emancipator, adored as Krishna and Badarayana, to the two authors of the commentary on the Brahma Sutras, I bow down To both expressions of the Divine, in Shankara, I bow down again and again At whose door the whole galaxy of gods pray for perfection day and night Adorned with immeasurable glory, preceptor of the whole world, having bowed to Him we gain complete fulfillment. Skilled in dispelling the cloud of ignorance of the people, the bestower of happiness, the glorious emancipator, Brahmananda Sarasvati, full of brilliance, Him I bring to my awareness. Offering the invocation to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev, I bow
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Given Marshy's continual emphasis on the purity of the teaching what you are saying here is bull manure. On Tue, 3/25/14, lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2014, 9:35 AM The significance of a pujah is whatever the hell the person doing the pujah says it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4b3hfoUUNQ
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Er, Salyavin, we all know the bija mantras can be found in books, and that Hindus associate them with particular deities and use them to invoke those deities. That's not exactly news. But translates is an obvious misnomer in this context. Bija mantras can't be translated because they have no semantic meaning to be translated. They're speech-sounds, not words; you can't use them in a sentence except as themselves--e.g., My mantra is X. Whether they're the names of deities is a different issue. As I just pointed out to Michael, in Beacon Light of the Himalayas, speaking to devout Hindus, Maharishi referred to the bijas as the mantras of personal gods, not the names of personal gods. Obviously the gods have their own perfectly good names (e.g., Lakshmi). Elsewhere in Beacon Light he says the bija mantra sounds are those which are pleasing to the deities, which isn't quite the same thing as invoking the deities. It suggests that the bija mantras are a different class of thing from the deities. You can certainly use a bija mantra with the idea that you're pleasing a deity, if that floats your boat, but it would likely interfere with the mechanics of TM, which wants you to entertain the bijas as pure sound without any associations whatsoever. Do read emptybill's post this morning about mantra vs. japa. Note that he's no TM-TB blissninny: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/377862 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/377862 Bottom line, from my perspective: This whole kit and caboodle can be understood from an exoteric religious point of view, or from an esoteric, nonsectarian metaphysical point of view having to do with the nature and mechanics of consciousness. Two different ways of seeing the same thing. I'm not religious, so I go with the latter, which is clearly how Maharishi wanted it understood in the West. I also find the metaphysical understanding vastly more interesting and challenging than the religious understanding. I think it's too bad that many people are limited, or limit themselves, to the religious understanding. They miss a great deal, IMHO. It appears some cognitive dissonance is setting in with Jude and Willytex. Not sure how many times I have to say it; my mantra is in many a book on mantra's and translates as an invocation to the goddess Lakshmi, say it 1000 times and she'll come to my aid. Apparently. That's the idea anyway. Feel free to continue saying everyone else is wrong ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Not the bija mantras. Good point, especially when you take the actual meaning of mantras into account. The mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning. Right, they just happen to be identical to some that do.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Hey, Feste, as a minor point, note that both Lawson and Barry use the period-following-each-word-for-emphasis convention in this exchange. I'll say again, and make it more explicit (obviously you didn't bother watching teh video): it doesn't matter what the words say. All that matters is the reason given for performing the stupid thing. Maharishi gave a reason. TM teachers agreed to accept that reason. End of story. Literally. End. Of. Story. TM teachers who agreed to accept that reason are in my considered opinion cultists, and not completely sane. End of story. Literally. End. Of. Story.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
you don't get it at all - Marshy was a devout and fanatic Hindu and he felt perfectly comfortable lying to achieve his ends - he was unwilling to even tell his teachers the truth about the mantras in the beginning even tho they felt oh so special to be in his presence not understanding they were stepping stones to his life of comfort and I get to be the king at the top of the heap lifestyle. Marshy believed Hinduism to be the only religion worth a crap regardless of what he told the masses (I have heard this from people who spent time with him behind closed doors) so he had no problem lying to everyone to get them to do that which Hindus do for them to get the benefit of the religion without knowing it AND to make him a financial and guru king. You can do TM without believing its a Hindu practice because he told everyone that but that doesn't stop it being so. That's like someone teaching a Catholic prayer and telling them its a secular practice. When they go into the Catholic world and use the prayer everyone knows they are doing a Catholic practice, even though the individual keeps repeating their own mantra Oh no! Its a secular practice. If you want to believe Marshy's lies about the Hindu gods and goddesses being the impulses of the laws of nature that's up to you, but that don't make it so. On Tue, 3/25/14, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2014, 2:42 PM Er, Salyavin, we all know the bija mantras can be found in books, and that Hindus associate them with particular deities and use them to invoke those deities. That's not exactly news. But translates is an obvious misnomer in this context. Bija mantras can't be translated because they have no semantic meaning to be translated. They're speech-sounds, not words; you can't use them in a sentence except as themselves--e.g., My mantra is X. Whether they're the names of deities is a different issue. As I just pointed out to Michael, in Beacon Light of the Himalayas, speaking to devout Hindus, Maharishi referred to the bijas as the mantras of personal gods, not the names of personal gods. Obviously the gods have their own perfectly good names (e.g., Lakshmi). Elsewhere in Beacon Light he says the bija mantra sounds are those which are pleasing to the deities, which isn't quite the same thing as invoking the deities. It suggests that the bija mantras are a different class of thing from the deities. You can certainly use a bija mantra with the idea that you're pleasing a deity, if that floats your boat, but it would likely interfere with the mechanics of TM, which wants you to entertain the bijas as pure sound without any associations whatsoever. Do read emptybill's post this morning about mantra vs. japa. Note that he's no TM-TB blissninny: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/377862 Bottom line, from my perspective: This whole kit and caboodle can be understood from an exoteric religious point of view, or from an esoteric, nonsectarian metaphysical point of view having to do with the nature and mechanics of consciousness. Two different ways of seeing the same thing. I'm not religious, so I go with the latter, which is clearly how Maharishi wanted it understood in the West. I also find the metaphysical understanding vastly more interesting and challenging than the religious understanding. I think it's too bad that many people are limited, or limit themselves, to the religious understanding. They miss a great deal, IMHO. It appears some cognitive dissonance is setting in with Jude and Willytex. Not sure how many times I have to say it; my mantra is in many a book on mantra's and translates as an invocation to the goddess Lakshmi, say it 1000 times and she'll come to my aid. Apparently. That's the idea anyway. Feel free to continue saying everyone else is wrong ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Not the bija mantras. Good point, especially when you take the actual meaning of mantras into account. The mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning. Right, they just happen to be identical to some that do.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Ok, Mike I can see how someone, especially a parent, could be concerned for their child's welfare. But I think peer pressure is a sine qua non of the teen years. So the mom might be fighting many a battle in that regard. It also brings up for me another issue. Your right to swing your arm ends where my nose begins. And now we even prohibit smokers from smoking near outside entrances to buildings! How far do you think we should go with our laws to deal with what the mom was concerned with: exposure to TM? On Monday, March 24, 2014 5:32 PM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: Let's try this again. I don't think of TM as a religion, TM It's self. I accept Maharishi at his word when he originally taught the technique. Mantras(bijas) are not names or nick names of gods but are sounds, who's effects are known. Those known effects can be considered by Hindus as *blessings* granted by a deity or by someone else as a stimulation of a learning center in the brain. But when you start wrapping it all up in something like the puja and requiring that it be a part of the learning process, it's easy to see why some would see it as a religious practice of Hindus. Add on top of that, veda this and veda that and yagya, jyotish, celebacy , monastic orders , Mother Divine, sidhis(what others would call miracles), com'on what the hell is a normal person expected to believe? The mother not only didn't want her kid doing TM but didn't want him/her exposed to it and influenced by fellow students who might apply pier pressure. If she were more the *evangelical* type, she might be resentful that her religion can't be taught in a like manner and if her's can't, then neither can yours. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. On Monday, March 24, 2014 1:30 PM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: Mike is this what you're replying to: As to the religion question, I ask: if TM is really a religion, then why do many long term TMers continue to attend Mass and services and synagogue? Go figure! On Monday, March 24, 2014 2:39 PM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: Share, when the student is ready, the master will appear, but not until then. Maharishi described the classical God Consciousness experience as when a devotee's deity reveals Himself to the devotee. The devotee becomes terribly confused afterwards, not knowing who to bow to first, his God or his master that showed him his God. We've had the master because we were ready. We need to be patient for others to become ready. On Monday, March 24, 2014 11:35 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/24/2014 11:57 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Just a reminder--even if the Quiet Time program had remained in her son's school, her son wouldn't have been required to learn TM. So there was more to what she did than just looking out for her son. It sort of looks like MJ is posting some fibs. well its all in how you look at it - I don't view her actions as knee jerk - she was looking out for her son, who told her, by the way, If I want to join a cult, I'll start my own. This was after he had looked into the TMO himself.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Michael, it isn't that I don't get it, it's that I see it differently. Very much as Bhairitu sez (and neither of us got this from what we were taught in the TM context), I understand exoteric religions, Hinduism in particular, to be metaphorical expressions of the esoteric metaphysics of the nature and mechanics of consciousness (in which, e.g., a deva--or an angel in Christianity--is a law of nature, or even more abstractly, a process of knowing). If one is devotionally inclined, one may well prefer the exoteric religious context of worship (as Maharishi apparently assumed his teachers did). If one is not devotionally inclined, as I'm not, one may prefer the abstract, esoteric metaphysical version. But the two are essentially different ways of understanding the same thing. In my opinion, Maharishi reveled in his ability to appreciate both. He was both a devout Hindu and a metaphysician (he didn't like the term metaphysics, but it's entirely appropriate). Moreover, the same basic metaphysics of consciousness underlies all exoteric religions. It's a pretty thrilling notion once you get your head around it. This idea--that exoteric religions are metaphorical expressions of an esoteric metaphysics of consciousness--is not at all uncommon in the field of philosophy of religion. As I say, I didn't pick it up from what I was taught in the TM context, but it's implicit in the TM teaching. you don't get it at all - Marshy was a devout and fanatic Hindu and he felt perfectly comfortable lying to achieve his ends - he was unwilling to even tell his teachers the truth about the mantras in the beginning even tho they felt oh so special to be in his presence not understanding they were stepping stones to his life of comfort and I get to be the king at the top of the heap lifestyle. Marshy believed Hinduism to be the only religion worth a crap regardless of what he told the masses (I have heard this from people who spent time with him behind closed doors) so he had no problem lying to everyone to get them to do that which Hindus do for them to get the benefit of the religion without knowing it AND to make him a financial and guru king. You can do TM without believing its a Hindu practice because he told everyone that but that doesn't stop it being so. That's like someone teaching a Catholic prayer and telling them its a secular practice. When they go into the Catholic world and use the prayer everyone knows they are doing a Catholic practice, even though the individual keeps repeating their own mantra Oh no! Its a secular practice. If you want to believe Marshy's lies about the Hindu gods and goddesses being the impulses of the laws of nature that's up to you, but that don't make it so. On Tue, 3/25/14, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2014, 2:42 PM Er, Salyavin, we all know the bija mantras can be found in books, and that Hindus associate them with particular deities and use them to invoke those deities. That's not exactly news. But translates is an obvious misnomer in this context. Bija mantras can't be translated because they have no semantic meaning to be translated. They're speech-sounds, not words; you can't use them in a sentence except as themselves--e.g., My mantra is X. Whether they're the names of deities is a different issue. As I just pointed out to Michael, in Beacon Light of the Himalayas, speaking to devout Hindus, Maharishi referred to the bijas as the mantras of personal gods, not the names of personal gods. Obviously the gods have their own perfectly good names (e.g., Lakshmi). Elsewhere in Beacon Light he says the bija mantra sounds are those which are pleasing to the deities, which isn't quite the same thing as invoking the deities. It suggests that the bija mantras are a different class of thing from the deities. You can certainly use a bija mantra with the idea that you're pleasing a deity, if that floats your boat, but it would likely interfere with the mechanics of TM, which wants you to entertain the bijas as pure sound without any associations whatsoever. Do read emptybill's post this morning about mantra vs. japa. Note that he's no TM-TB blissninny: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/377862 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/377862 Bottom line, from my perspective: This whole kit and caboodle can be understood from an exoteric religious point of view, or from an esoteric, nonsectarian metaphysical point of view having to do with the nature and mechanics of consciousness. Two different ways of seeing the same thing. I'm not religious, so
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/25/2014 2:55 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: It appears some cognitive dissonance is setting in with Jude and Willytex. Not sure how many times I have to say it; my mantra is in many a book on mantra's and translates as an invocation to the goddess Lakshmi, say it 1000 times and she'll come to my aid. Apparently. That's the idea anyway. Feel free to continue saying everyone else is wrong Cognitive dissonance dealt with -- or rather NOT dealt with As a former TM teacher, Barry should know that the TM bijas are not presented as the names of the Hindu Gods.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/25/2014 2:55 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Speaking as what neither of them is or ever was -- a TM teacher I've been teaching people how to meditate for over forty years - I can teach anything I want to, as long as I don't call it TM. As for Barry's teacher training, all I can say is Big whoop! Barry is Just Another Guy who wanted to be a spiritual teacher, but he sucked at it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/25/2014 2:35 AM, salyavin808 wrote: It appears some cognitive dissonance is setting in with Jude and Willytex. Not sure how many times I have to say it; my mantra is in many a book on mantra's and translates as an invocation to the goddess Lakshmi, say it 1000 times and she'll come to my aid. Apparently. That's the idea anyway. No TM bija mantra are presented using a book of mantras, or any reference to a Hindu deity - TM practice has nothing to do with the names of the Hindu Gods: bija mantras are not words found in a Sanskrit lexicon. The idea is that the TM bijas are non-semantic sounds - the TM bijas are just simple mnemonic devices - sounds found in nature and all around the household. There is no God of TM.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
That's not true, Richard. No TM bija mantra are presented using a book of mantras, or any reference to a Hindu deity
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Share , as far as I'm concerned,the law has to be applied equally to all. As I said, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. TM will either be perceived as a religion or religious practice or not, depending on how the TMO presents it and how others perceive it. The TMO has already shot it's self in the foot, repeatedly, concerning this matter and now has to live with it . Karma's a bitch some times! On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:14 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: Ok, Mike I can see how someone, especially a parent, could be concerned for their child's welfare. But I think peer pressure is a sine qua non of the teen years. So the mom might be fighting many a battle in that regard. It also brings up for me another issue. Your right to swing your arm ends where my nose begins. And now we even prohibit smokers from smoking near outside entrances to buildings! How far do you think we should go with our laws to deal with what the mom was concerned with: exposure to TM? On Monday, March 24, 2014 5:32 PM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: Let's try this again. I don't think of TM as a religion, TM It's self. I accept Maharishi at his word when he originally taught the technique. Mantras(bijas) are not names or nick names of gods but are sounds, who's effects are known. Those known effects can be considered by Hindus as *blessings* granted by a deity or by someone else as a stimulation of a learning center in the brain. But when you start wrapping it all up in something like the puja and requiring that it be a part of the learning process, it's easy to see why some would see it as a religious practice of Hindus. Add on top of that, veda this and veda that and yagya, jyotish, celebacy , monastic orders , Mother Divine, sidhis(what others would call miracles), com'on what the hell is a normal person expected to believe? The mother not only didn't want her kid doing TM but didn't want him/her exposed to it and influenced by fellow students who might apply pier pressure. If she were more the *evangelical* type, she might be resentful that her religion can't be taught in a like manner and if her's can't, then neither can yours. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. On Monday, March 24, 2014 1:30 PM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: Mike is this what you're replying to: As to the religion question, I ask: if TM is really a religion, then why do many long term TMers continue to attend Mass and services and synagogue? Go figure! On Monday, March 24, 2014 2:39 PM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: Share, when the student is ready, the master will appear, but not until then. Maharishi described the classical God Consciousness experience as when a devotee's deity reveals Himself to the devotee. The devotee becomes terribly confused afterwards, not knowing who to bow to first, his God or his master that showed him his God. We've had the master because we were ready. We need to be patient for others to become ready. On Monday, March 24, 2014 11:35 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/24/2014 11:57 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Just a reminder--even if the Quiet Time program had remained in her son's school, her son wouldn't have been required to learn TM. So there was more to what she did than just looking out for her son. It sort of looks like MJ is posting some fibs. well its all in how you look at it - I don't view her actions as knee jerk - she was looking out for her son, who told her, by the way, If I want to join a cult, I'll start my own. This was after he had looked into the TMO himself.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Yep, it makes total sense that the actual meaning of the mantra is: “Oh most glorious meaningless sound, I bow down to you again and again.”
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Very funny, geezerfreak... On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 3:01 PM, geezerfr...@yahoo.com geezerfr...@yahoo.com wrote: Yep, it makes total sense that the actual meaning of the mantra is: “Oh most glorious meaningless sound, I bow down to you again and again.”
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
With all due respect, I don't think you quite got it, geeze. Yep, it makes total sense that the actual meaning of the mantra is: “Oh most glorious meaningless sound, I bow down to you again and again.”
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/25/2014 2:55 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: I confirm your contention that one can find *all* of the TM mantras in books of Indian mantras, along with the Hindu god or goddess each is associated with, and who you invoke each time you think or say the mantra. An accomplished yogi (siddha) doesn't get bija mantras out of a book, only dilettantes do that - a serious student of yoga gets a bija mantra from a guru in a tantric initiation. A bija mantra is anything the guru gives you to meditate on for your spiritual practice. Invoking a Hindu god or goddess from reading books will not aid the casual student in their quest for knowledge - yoga is based on individual will power, not on supplication or invocation. Tantra is what works.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/25/2014 2:55 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Thus they have no excuse for pretending that it's not religious in both origin and intent. The accusation that a simple relaxation technique like TM is a religion is an insult to real religions. Often this straw man is put forth by fundamentalist Christians simply for the purpose of denigrating Hindus and Hindu social conventions, which is at its core a form of prejudice. In your case, it's an argument tor the sole purpose showing off on a discussion group - everyone already knows that your main target is Judy Stein. You'd probably stoop to almost anything in order to score a few points on a discussion group just to prove you're someone special. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/25/2014 4:06 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: The puja, however, EVERYONE knew the meaning of. Thus when they told their students that there was nothing religious about the puja, they were lying. They still are, to the administrators of these Quiet Time schools, to the students learning TM, and to their parents. This is nothing more than rank prejudice against Hindus - everyone on the planet has social conventions.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/25/2014 4:35 AM, lengli...@cox.net wrote: The significance of a pujah is whatever the hell the person doing the pujah says it is: A mantra is anything your guru gives you for spiritual practice.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/25/2014 4:59 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: It *does*, after all, contain the names of numerous Hindu gods, not to mention various Hindu saints and teachers, and it *does* say that in performing the puja we are bowing down to them. Maybe the most important thing we need to now is that you made a promise when you bowed down and accepted your teacher as your guru - to keep the teaching pure. You have failed and you did not keep your promise. Your word doesn't mean shit, now. Prattle.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/25/2014 5:51 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: TM teachers who agreed to accept that reason are in my considered opinion cultists, and not completely sane. Did anyone force you to sign the pledge or perform the ceremony? Where is the coercion? In fact, you paid thousands of dollars to Fred for your training, voluntarily - nobody held a gun to your head. You need to take responsibility for your own actions, and stop putting the blame on others. That's what I think.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/25/2014 9:42 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Bija mantras can't be translated because they have /no semantic meaning to be translated./ They're speech-sounds, not words; TM practice is based on Kashmere Tantrism - the central tenet of this system is that everything is sound vibration - spanda - both the objective exterior reality and the subjective world, usually described as vibration/movement of consciousness.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/25/2014 3:14 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: With all due respect, I don't think you quite got it, geeze. Apparently Mr. Freak doesn't realize that in TM practice you get only one single bija mantra. Go figure. Yep, it makes total sense that the actual meaning of the mantra is: “Oh most glorious meaningless sound, I bow down to you again and again.”
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/25/2014 1:16 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: That's not true, Richard. Jerry Jarvis didn't take out a book of mantras when he gave me my initiation - I guess he had memorized all the TM bija mantras. Maybe he had a knack for memorizing something like an initiation ceremony and the short list of bija mantras. And, he didn't mention any deities either. Go figure. No TM bija mantra are presented using a book of mantras, or any reference to a Hindu deity
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/25/2014 6:00 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: Thanks for posting that Barry - sums it up very well. Sums up what?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
why do you assume she is a Christian? How do you know she isn't a Buddhist? or an agnostic? When people find out about the seamy underbelly of the TMO they object to their kids being exposed to it on the basis of decency and common sense - what parent would deliberately want their children influenced by the likes of the leaders of the TMO and an organization that lionizes the likes of Russell Brand? On Mon, 3/24/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 24, 2014, 3:30 AM I feel it is a bad thing when a few christian nuts could derail professional educators from employing meditation a quiet time in schools as part of educational design. It defies good science with their religious non-sense. -Buck Yep, it is true a quiet-time Gap in education evidently is opening even with developing nations in Central and South America too. This is not good at all for us North Americans. This bigoted ignorance of a few overly religious people against good public education puts us all once again in an extremely bad competitive position in the world economies. These anti-science religious nuts are being extremely dangerous to everyone in opposing quiet-time meditation in schools. -Buck Yes, I worry for a future Quiet-time-transcending-Meditation-Gap that America is going to suffer because of these idiot cultist christians if we as Americans cannot keep up with the Chinese, Japanese and others all around the Pacific rim who are adopting transcending meditation in to their economies for their students on good scientific grounds.-Buck awoelflebater writes: I have to sort of agree with you on this subject regarding this one mother who objected to TM because of the danger that it might be based in some sort of religion. She sounds narrow minded and fearful to me. I think a few minutes of TM quiet time for most schools would be beneficial. It might actually get these kids off their phones for a whole 20 minutes. I don't applaud this woman, I think there are millions out there exactly like her - unimaginative, unexposed to much beyond white bread American values and otherwise stuck in the mud. I'll go further to conjecture she's a middle class Republican. punditster writes: On 3/23/2014 1:31 AM, LEnglish5 wrote: There's a huge concerted effort (by the massive 26 members) to attemptto sabotage any and all QUiet Time Schools in San Francisco. Mjacksonis apparently a member. https://www.facebook.com/pages/SF-Parents-Against-TM-in-Public-Schools/201123776750702 In case you didn't know, M. Jackson is apparently working for John Knapp at TM-Free..
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
This is just cult hysteria and misdirection on Buck's part. Thomas Jefferson *was* a Christian, and he objected to *any* form of religious practice being added to the school systems of America because that violated the Constitution of the United States. Or possibly Buck believes that the tyranny referred to in Jefferson's famous quote below referred to rakshasas. :-) It didn't...it referred to a group of Christians who were trying to sneak their practices into a school system, just as the TMO is. I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. I am very much not a Christian, but I would object similarly to any form of religion-based meditation being offered in public schools in America for the same reason -- it violates the Constitution. And there is simply no question that TM (as it is currently taught) is based in religion -- the mantras are the names (or nicknames, for the nitpickers) of Hindu gods, and Hindu gods and teachers are chanted to and bowed down to during the puja, without which *TM cannot be taught*. For similar reasons I would opposed any form of Buddhist meditation (including mindfulness) being taught in American public schools *if it included and demanded traditional Buddhist rituals as part of the teaching process*. If a technique can be *totally* divorced from its religious background, such that no invocation of or mention of the religious trappings are ever needed to learn and practice the technique, then I'd see no problem with such a technique being taught in schools. But TM does NOT fit that criterion. Never has, never will. This was decided in the courts w.r.t. TM decades ago. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools why do you assume she is a Christian? How do you know she isn't a Buddhist? or an agnostic? When people find out about the seamy underbelly of the TMO they object to their kids being exposed to it on the basis of decency and common sense - what parent would deliberately want their children influenced by the likes of the leaders of the TMO and an organization that lionizes the likes of Russell Brand? On Mon, 3/24/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 24, 2014, 3:30 AM I feel it is a bad thing when a few christian nuts could derail professional educators from employing meditation a quiet time in schools as part of educational design. It defies good science with their religious non-sense. -Buck Yep, it is true a quiet-time Gap in education evidently is opening even with developing nations in Central and South America too. This is not good at all for us North Americans. This bigoted ignorance of a few overly religious people against good public education puts us all once again in an extremely bad competitive position in the world economies. These anti-science religious nuts are being extremely dangerous to everyone in opposing quiet-time meditation in schools. -Buck Yes, I worry for a future Quiet-time-transcending-Meditation-Gap that America is going to suffer because of these idiot cultist christians if we as Americans cannot keep up with the Chinese, Japanese and others all around the Pacific rim who are adopting transcending meditation in to their economies for their students on good scientific grounds.-Buck awoelflebater writes: I have to sort of agree with you on this subject regarding this one mother who objected to TM because of the danger that it might be based in some sort of religion. She sounds narrow minded and fearful to me. I think a few minutes of TM quiet time for most schools would be beneficial. It might actually get these kids off their phones for a whole 20 minutes. I don't applaud this woman, I think there are millions out there exactly like her - unimaginative, unexposed to much beyond white bread American values and otherwise stuck in the mud. I'll go further to conjecture she's a middle class Republican. punditster writes: On 3/23/2014 1:31 AM, LEnglish5 wrote: There's a huge concerted effort (by the massive 26 members) to attemptto sabotage any and all QUiet Time Schools in San Francisco. Mjacksonis apparently a member. https://www.facebook.com/pages/SF-Parents-Against-TM-in-Public-Schools/201123776750702 In case you didn't know, M. Jackson is apparently working for John Knapp at TM-Free..
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/23/2014 10:20 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: I know she has grit and determination and wasn't afraid to take on the school system and the David Lynch foundation - that's enough for me Grit is one thing and, believe me, I am an admirer of it. But I think her cause is not worthy of her grit. She is campaigning against something that is really very benign at worst and at best a vast improvement on the kids deeking out to the nearest parking lot for a joint. If it was just a matter of sneaking out to the parking lot to smoke a joint, that could be dealt with - it's the rampant violence and gang mentality that's the problem in schools that's the problem. Not to mention that many students these days in the inner city are sometimes unable to read or write and even add numbers IF they graduate. That's where parents need the grit - not wasting time fighting a quiet time program. It looks like MJ is somebody that has no idea what's going on in our public schools these days. Apparently he's not much into education. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/23/2014 10:30 PM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: *I feel it is a bad thing when a few christian nuts could derail professional educators from employing meditation a quiet time in schools as part of educational design. It defies good science with their religious non-sense. -Buck* You have to realize, Buck, that most normal folks that live in Fairfield probably think you're the nut for setting up a campus on a farm with 200 house trailers for a thousand Hindu monk pundits from India to pray in all day and night. You've got to admit, this looks kind of strange from the outside.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
I don't care if she is or isn't - write and ask her if you want to find out On Mon, 3/24/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 24, 2014, 12:00 PM Old history of evangelical christians hating on meditation. Going back with TM even to Berkeley, California 1960's days and their inception of the NJ. Court case back then. This methodical assault on science and schools by a small group of small-minded people smells of christian rats. Prove to me my nose is wrong. I bet you can't. =Buck mjackson74 writes: why do you assume she is a Christian? I feel it is a bad thing when a few christian nuts could derail professional educators from employing meditation a quiet time in schools as part of educational design. It defies good science with their religious non-sense. -Buck Yep, it is true a quiet-time Gap in education evidently is opening even with developing nations in Central and South America too. This is not good at all for us North Americans. This bigoted ignorance of a few overly religious people against good public education puts us all once again in an extremely bad competitive position in the world economies. These anti-science religious nuts are being extremely dangerous to everyone in opposing quiet-time meditation in schools. -Buck Yes, I worry for a future Quiet-time-transcending-Meditation-Gap that America is going to suffer because of these idiot cultist christians if we as Americans cannot keep up with the Chinese, Japanese and others all around the Pacific rim who are adopting transcending meditation in to their economies for their students on good scientific grounds.-Buck awoelflebater writes: I have to sort of agree with you on this subject regarding this one mother who objected to TM because of the danger that it might be based in some sort of religion. She sounds narrow minded and fearful to me. I think a few minutes of TM quiet time for most schools would be beneficial. It might actually get these kids off their phones for a whole 20 minutes. I don't applaud this woman, I think there are millions out there exactly like her - unimaginative, unexposed to much beyond white bread American values and otherwise stuck in the mud. I'll go further to conjecture she's a middle class Republican. punditster writes: On 3/23/2014 1:31 AM, LEnglish5 wrote: There's a huge concerted effort (by the massive 26 members) to attemptto sabotage any and all QUiet Time Schools in San Francisco. Mjacksonis apparently a member. https://www.facebook.com/pages/SF-Parents-Against-TM-in-Public-Schools/201123776750702 In case you didn't know, M. Jackson is apparently working for John Knapp at TM-Free..
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Yep I would say keeping TM out of schools is averting the danger before it arises! On Mon, 3/24/14, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 24, 2014, 12:01 PM This is just cult hysteria and misdirection on Buck's part. Thomas Jefferson *was* a Christian, and he objected to *any* form of religious practice being added to the school systems of America because that violated the Constitution of the United States. Or possibly Buck believes that the tyranny referred to in Jefferson's famous quote below referred to rakshasas. :-) It didn't...it referred to a group of Christians who were trying to sneak their practices into a school system, just as the TMO is. I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. I am very much not a Christian, but I would object similarly to any form of religion-based meditation being offered in public schools in America for the same reason -- it violates the Constitution. And there is simply no question that TM (as it is currently taught) is based in religion -- the mantras are the names (or nicknames, for the nitpickers) of Hindu gods, and Hindu gods and teachers are chanted to and bowed down to during the puja, without which *TM cannot be taught*. For similar reasons I would opposed any form of Buddhist meditation (including mindfulness) being taught in American public schools *if it included and demanded traditional Buddhist rituals as part of the teaching process*. If a technique can be *totally* divorced from its religious background, such that no invocation of or mention of the religious trappings are ever needed to learn and practice the technique, then I'd see no problem with such a technique being taught in schools. But TM does NOT fit that criterion. Never has, never will. This was decided in the courts w.r.t. TM decades ago. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools why do you assume she is a Christian? How do you know she isn't a Buddhist? or an agnostic? When people find out about the seamy underbelly of the TMO they object to their kids being exposed to it on the basis of decency and common sense - what parent would deliberately want their children influenced by the likes of the leaders of the TMO and an organization that lionizes the likes of Russell Brand? On Mon, 3/24/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 24, 2014, 3:30 AM I feel it is a bad thing when a few christian nuts could derail professional educators from employing meditation a quiet time in schools as part of educational design. It defies good science with their religious non-sense. -Buck Yep, it is true a quiet-time Gap in education evidently is opening even with developing nations in Central and South America too. This is not good at all for us North Americans. This bigoted ignorance of a few overly religious people against good public education puts us all once again in an extremely bad competitive position in the world economies. These anti-science religious nuts are being extremely dangerous to everyone in opposing quiet-time meditation in schools. -Buck Yes, I worry for a future Quiet-time-transcending-Meditation-Gap that America is going to suffer because of these idiot cultist christians if we as Americans cannot keep up with the Chinese, Japanese and others all around the Pacific rim who are adopting transcending meditation in to their economies for their students on good scientific grounds.-Buck awoelflebater writes: I have to sort of agree with you on this subject regarding this one mother who objected to TM because of the danger that it might be based in some sort of religion. She sounds narrow minded and fearful to me. I think a few minutes of TM quiet time for most schools would be beneficial. It might actually get these kids off their phones for a whole 20 minutes. I don't applaud this woman, I think there are millions out there exactly like her - unimaginative, unexposed to much beyond white bread American values and otherwise stuck
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/24/2014 7:01 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Or possibly Buck believes that the tyranny referred to in Jefferson's famous quote below referred to rakshasas. I keep bringing this up, because you seem ignorant of Sanskrit - the term rakshasas is a derogatory term with reference to skin color and translated into English means nigger devil. It's one thing to be a racist, but you just compound your error by being ignorant. Does that make you feel special to use Sanskrit words without even knowing they mean? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/24/2014 8:05 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: Yep I would say keeping TM out of schools is averting the danger before it arises! You got to work really early today!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : This is just cult hysteria and misdirection on Buck's part. Thomas Jefferson *was* a Christian, and he objected to *any* form of religious practice being added to the school systems of America because that violated the Constitution of the United States. Or possibly Buck believes that the tyranny referred to in Jefferson's famous quote below referred to rakshasas. :-) It didn't...it referred to a group of Christians who were trying to sneak their practices into a school system, just as the TMO is. I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. I am very much not a Christian, but I would object similarly to any form of religion-based meditation being offered in public schools in America for the same reason -- it violates the Constitution. And there is simply no question that TM (as it is currently taught) is based in religion -- the mantras are the names (or nicknames, for the nitpickers) of Hindu gods, and Hindu gods and teachers are chanted to and bowed down to during the puja, without which *TM cannot be taught*. For similar reasons I would opposed any form of Buddhist meditation (including mindfulness) being taught in American public schools *if it included and demanded traditional Buddhist rituals as part of the teaching process*. If a technique can be *totally* divorced from its religious background, such that no invocation of or mention of the religious trappings are ever needed to learn and practice the technique, then I'd see no problem with such a technique being taught in schools. But TM does NOT fit that criterion. Never has, never will. This was decided in the courts w.r.t. TM decades ago. You are waa too hung up on the concept of religion. You are positively spooked by it. Practicing a meditation technique for a few minutes in some North American school room is a long way from what was or may still be happening in Catholic schools with its indoctrination and spiritual brainwashing. Sitting down for a few minutes to shut out the world is potentially a great thing given that America's typical school environment is pretty much entropic noise and superficiality. Get off your paranoidal high horse and get a grip. You're hysterical. If you take half a second to think for a change you'd realize just about everything we do in our day is based on some religious practice or culture or belief. We're grounded in it as human beings. I had no idea you were such a prissy wussy, Bawwy.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I don't care if she is or isn't - write and ask her if you want to find out I don't care either, it was just a theory. I know enough about her, thanks. She doesn't impress me in any way so far; I'm not a fan of conservative or knee-jerk. Sounds like someone who admires Sarah Palin.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/24/2014 7:01 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Or possibly Buck believes that the tyranny referred to in Jefferson's famous quote below referred to rakshasas. I keep bringing this up, because you seem ignorant of Sanskrit - the term rakshasas is a derogatory term with reference to skin color and translated into English means nigger devil. It's one thing to be a racist, but you just compound your error by being ignorant. Does that make you feel special to use Sanskrit words without even knowing they mean? Go figure. And here Bawwy was thinking he knew something because he used the old-fashioned and well-worn word shinola. I had always heard it phrased shit from shinola.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
The obvious problem for some Christians is the first commandment, Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. If this woman is a devout Christian, she has every right to have concern until such time that the TMO can prove that they are not trying to slip something by on her children or society as a whole. That will be very difficult in light of the NJ case. As long as Christians feel attacked for their beliefs, (prayer removed from public schools and events, crosses removed from public lands, ten commandments removed from court room buildings etc.) you can bet that Christians will demand equal treatment for other religions as well. The TMO can dress TM up all it wants with all the junk science it wants but as long as witnessing the puja is a must for*initiates*, it will be recognized as a *baptism*, so to speak ,into another faith and adherents to any other religion have a right to question and reject, if their conscience dictates.The TMO under the direction of Maharishi has shot it's self in the foot too many times to ever become the Oscar Pistorius of cults. I just don't see it ever getting up and running like it could have in the early 70's. But who knows? On Monday, March 24, 2014 6:32 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/24/2014 7:01 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Or possibly Buck believes that the tyranny referred to in Jefferson's famous quote below referred to rakshasas. I keep bringing this up, because you seem ignorant of Sanskrit - the term rakshasas is a derogatory term with reference to skin color and translated into English means nigger devil. It's one thing to be a racist, but you just compound your error by being ignorant. Does that make you feel special to use Sanskrit words without even knowing they mean? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Mike you may be right about TM being past its heyday. Except that I think the Chinese are enthusiastic about it. And in my experience they are nobody's fool. In general I find them to be very intelligent and very, very practical. The fact that I see an increasing number of young Chinese women in the Dome, tells me that TM continues to be recognized as the quintessential technique for releasing stress from the nervous system and developing fuller mind body coordination. As to the religion question, I ask: if TM is really a religion, then why do many long term TMers continue to attend Mass and services and synagogue? Go figure! On Monday, March 24, 2014 9:23 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: The obvious problem for some Christians is the first commandment, Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. If this woman is a devout Christian, she has every right to have concern until such time that the TMO can prove that they are not trying to slip something by on her children or society as a whole. That will be very difficult in light of the NJ case. As long as Christians feel attacked for their beliefs, (prayer removed from public schools and events, crosses removed from public lands, ten commandments removed from court room buildings etc.) you can bet that Christians will demand equal treatment for other religions as well. The TMO can dress TM up all it wants with all the junk science it wants but as long as witnessing the puja is a must for*initiates*, it will be recognized as a *baptism*, so to speak ,into another faith and adherents to any other religion have a right to question and reject, if their conscience dictates.The TMO under the direction of Maharishi has shot it's self in the foot too many times to ever become the Oscar Pistorius of cults. I just don't see it ever getting up and running like it could have in the early 70's. But who knows? On Monday, March 24, 2014 6:32 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/24/2014 7:01 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Or possibly Buck believes that the tyranny referred to in Jefferson's famous quote below referred to rakshasas. I keep bringing this up, because you seem ignorant of Sanskrit - the term rakshasas is a derogatory term with reference to skin color and translated into English means nigger devil. It's one thing to be a racist, but you just compound your error by being ignorant. Does that make you feel special to use Sanskrit words without even knowing they mean? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : The obvious problem for some Christians is the first commandment, Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. If this woman is a devout Christian, she has every right to have concern until such time that the TMO can prove that they are not trying to slip something by on her children or society as a whole. That will be very difficult in light of the NJ case. As long as Christians feel attacked for their beliefs, (prayer removed from public schools and events, crosses removed from public lands, ten commandments removed from court room buildings etc.) you can bet that Christians will demand equal treatment for other religions as well. The TMO can dress TM up all it wants with all the junk science it wants but as long as witnessing the puja is a must for*initiates*, it will be recognized as a *baptism*, so to speak ,into another faith Good point, especially when you take the actual meaning of mantras into account. I bet many a christian who does TM would be annoyed to find out they've been praying to some multi-limbed Hindu deity without realising. I certainly was but I didn't care because I don't believe in any supernatural stuff, a mantra really is just a soothing noise to me, though I do feel miffed at the deception however well intentioned - if it was well intentioned... It's this the hidden intent that people can see that they object to. Of course TM isn't just a relaxation technique, it's way more than that and I don't mean just in a bad 'lure them into the cult' way either. I read a book about it before I learned and it explained all the stages of gaining enlightenment so I understood what I was getting into, the first step into TM is the first step on a path, whether you like it or not. Do kids partaking of quite time get to hear all about that? Do they get to hear about the unstressing periods of regular TM practise that are rather unpleasant (if you want to be honest about it)? I'm guessing not and I don't know if it's fair to pull the wool over their, or their parents, eyes and not give them the full story of what TM is and what the TMO is and the sort of things it does worldwide with all the money it raises with it's largely bullshit health and religious programmes. I say bullshit because of it's all untested new age crap based on the mysterious beliefs of Tony Nader and the idea that Indian literature is somehow present in human physiology. Not good lessons for an evidence based school curriculum I suspect, but you can't separate them from TM itself, they'll find a way of letting you know about the sidhis and yagyas, gotta keep those donations coming in. File under scientology and keep it out of schools. and adherents to any other religion have a right to question and reject, if their conscience dictates.The TMO under the direction of Maharishi has shot it's self in the foot too many times to ever become the Oscar Pistorius of cults. I just don't see it ever getting up and running like it could have in the early 70's. But who knows? On Monday, March 24, 2014 6:32 AM, Richard J. Williams punditster@... wrote: On 3/24/2014 7:01 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Or possibly Buck believes that the tyranny referred to in Jefferson's famous quote below referred to rakshasas. I keep bringing this up, because you seem ignorant of Sanskrit - the term rakshasas is a derogatory term with reference to skin color and translated into English means nigger devil. It's one thing to be a racist, but you just compound your error by being ignorant. Does that make you feel special to use Sanskrit words without even knowing they mean? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
well its all in how you look at it - I don't view her actions as knee jerk - she was looking out for her son, who told her, by the way, If I want to join a cult, I'll start my own. This was after he had looked into the TMO himself. On Mon, 3/24/14, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 24, 2014, 2:04 PM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I don't care if she is or isn't - write and ask her if you want to find out I don't care either, it was just a theory. I know enough about her, thanks. She doesn't impress me in any way so far; I'm not a fan of conservative or knee-jerk. Sounds like someone who admires Sarah Palin.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Just a reminder--even if the Quiet Time program had remained in her son's school, her son wouldn't have been required to learn TM. So there was more to what she did than just looking out for her son. well its all in how you look at it - I don't view her actions as knee jerk - she was looking out for her son, who told her, by the way, If I want to join a cult, I'll start my own. This was after he had looked into the TMO himself.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools File under scientology and keep it out of schools. The bottom line. A perfect description of TM, and in only nine words.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/24/2014 11:35 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Good point, especially when you take the actual meaning of mantras into account. The mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/24/2014 11:56 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: File under scientology and keep it out of schools. The bottom line. A perfect description of TM, and in only nine words. You seem to have done a 180 - rumor has it that you wrote the cult manifesto for Rama.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/24/2014 11:57 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: *Just a reminder--even if the Quiet Time program had remained in her son's school, her son wouldn't have been required to learn TM. So there was more to what she did than just looking out for her son.* * *It sort of looks like MJ is posting some fibs.* * well its all in how you look at it - I don't view her actions as knee jerk - she was looking out for her son, who told her, by the way, If I want to join a cult, I'll start my own. This was after he had looked into the TMO himself.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Share, when the student is ready, the master will appear, but not until then. Maharishi described the classical God Consciousness experience as when a devotee's deity reveals Himself to the devotee. The devotee becomes terribly confused afterwards, not knowing who to bow to first, his God or his master that showed him his God. We've had the master because we were ready. We need to be patient for others to become ready. On Monday, March 24, 2014 11:35 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/24/2014 11:57 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Just a reminder--even if the Quiet Time program had remained in her son's school, her son wouldn't have been required to learn TM. So there was more to what she did than just looking out for her son. It sort of looks like MJ is posting some fibs. well its all in how you look at it - I don't view her actions as knee jerk - she was looking out for her son, who told her, by the way, If I want to join a cult, I'll start my own. This was after he had looked into the TMO himself.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
I think you're responding to the wrong post, Mike... Share, when the student is ready, the master will appear, but not until then. Maharishi described the classical God Consciousness experience as when a devotee's deity reveals Himself to the devotee. The devotee becomes terribly confused afterwards, not knowing who to bow to first, his God or his master that showed him his God. We've had the master because we were ready. We need to be patient for others to become ready. Just a reminder--even if the Quiet Time program had remained in her son's school, her son wouldn't have been required to learn TM. So there was more to what she did than just looking out for her son. It sort of looks like MJ is posting some fibs. well its all in how you look at it - I don't view her actions as knee jerk - she was looking out for her son, who told her, by the way, If I want to join a cult, I'll start my own. This was after he had looked into the TMO himself.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Mike is this what you're replying to: As to the religion question, I ask: if TM is really a religion, then why do many long term TMers continue to attend Mass and services and synagogue? Go figure! On Monday, March 24, 2014 2:39 PM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: Share, when the student is ready, the master will appear, but not until then. Maharishi described the classical God Consciousness experience as when a devotee's deity reveals Himself to the devotee. The devotee becomes terribly confused afterwards, not knowing who to bow to first, his God or his master that showed him his God. We've had the master because we were ready. We need to be patient for others to become ready. On Monday, March 24, 2014 11:35 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/24/2014 11:57 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Just a reminder--even if the Quiet Time program had remained in her son's school, her son wouldn't have been required to learn TM. So there was more to what she did than just looking out for her son. It sort of looks like MJ is posting some fibs. well its all in how you look at it - I don't view her actions as knee jerk - she was looking out for her son, who told her, by the way, If I want to join a cult, I'll start my own. This was after he had looked into the TMO himself.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/24/2014 11:35 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Good point, especially when you take the actual meaning of mantras into account. The mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning. Right, they just happen to be identical to some that do.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Not the bija mantras. Good point, especially when you take the actual meaning of mantras into account. The mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning. Right, they just happen to be identical to some that do.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Let's try this again. I don't think of TM as a religion, TM It's self. I accept Maharishi at his word when he originally taught the technique. Mantras(bijas) are not names or nick names of gods but are sounds, who's effects are known. Those known effects can be considered by Hindus as *blessings* granted by a deity or by someone else as a stimulation of a learning center in the brain. But when you start wrapping it all up in something like the puja and requiring that it be a part of the learning process, it's easy to see why some would see it as a religious practice of Hindus. Add on top of that, veda this and veda that and yagya, jyotish, celebacy , monastic orders , Mother Divine, sidhis(what others would call miracles), com'on what the hell is a normal person expected to believe? The mother not only didn't want her kid doing TM but didn't want him/her exposed to it and influenced by fellow students who might apply pier pressure. If she were more the *evangelical* type, she might be resentful that her religion can't be taught in a like manner and if her's can't, then neither can yours. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. On Monday, March 24, 2014 1:30 PM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: Mike is this what you're replying to: As to the religion question, I ask: if TM is really a religion, then why do many long term TMers continue to attend Mass and services and synagogue? Go figure! On Monday, March 24, 2014 2:39 PM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: Share, when the student is ready, the master will appear, but not until then. Maharishi described the classical God Consciousness experience as when a devotee's deity reveals Himself to the devotee. The devotee becomes terribly confused afterwards, not knowing who to bow to first, his God or his master that showed him his God. We've had the master because we were ready. We need to be patient for others to become ready. On Monday, March 24, 2014 11:35 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/24/2014 11:57 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Just a reminder--even if the Quiet Time program had remained in her son's school, her son wouldn't have been required to learn TM. So there was more to what she did than just looking out for her son. It sort of looks like MJ is posting some fibs. well its all in how you look at it - I don't view her actions as knee jerk - she was looking out for her son, who told her, by the way, If I want to join a cult, I'll start my own. This was after he had looked into the TMO himself.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
better go get a nose doctor - talked to the lady today, she in fact is NOT christian, she is agnostic and in fact has a long background studying, of all things, Hinduism. On Mon, 3/24/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 24, 2014, 12:00 PM Old history of evangelical christians hating on meditation. Going back with TM even to Berkeley, California 1960's days and their inception of the NJ. Court case back then. This methodical assault on science and schools by a small group of small-minded people smells of christian rats. Prove to me my nose is wrong. I bet you can't. =Buck mjackson74 writes: why do you assume she is a Christian? I feel it is a bad thing when a few christian nuts could derail professional educators from employing meditation a quiet time in schools as part of educational design. It defies good science with their religious non-sense. -Buck Yep, it is true a quiet-time Gap in education evidently is opening even with developing nations in Central and South America too. This is not good at all for us North Americans. This bigoted ignorance of a few overly religious people against good public education puts us all once again in an extremely bad competitive position in the world economies. These anti-science religious nuts are being extremely dangerous to everyone in opposing quiet-time meditation in schools. -Buck Yes, I worry for a future Quiet-time-transcending-Meditation-Gap that America is going to suffer because of these idiot cultist christians if we as Americans cannot keep up with the Chinese, Japanese and others all around the Pacific rim who are adopting transcending meditation in to their economies for their students on good scientific grounds.-Buck awoelflebater writes: I have to sort of agree with you on this subject regarding this one mother who objected to TM because of the danger that it might be based in some sort of religion. She sounds narrow minded and fearful to me. I think a few minutes of TM quiet time for most schools would be beneficial. It might actually get these kids off their phones for a whole 20 minutes. I don't applaud this woman, I think there are millions out there exactly like her - unimaginative, unexposed to much beyond white bread American values and otherwise stuck in the mud. I'll go further to conjecture she's a middle class Republican. punditster writes: On 3/23/2014 1:31 AM, LEnglish5 wrote: There's a huge concerted effort (by the massive 26 members) to attemptto sabotage any and all QUiet Time Schools in San Francisco. Mjacksonis apparently a member. https://www.facebook.com/pages/SF-Parents-Against-TM-in-Public-Schools/201123776750702 In case you didn't know, M. Jackson is apparently working for John Knapp at TM-Free..
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
given the fact that compared to the number of students who have gone through american schools since Marshy first started offerin TM here, compared to the number of students over the past 60 years who did TM however briefly, I don't think there is anything to worry about you brain numbed man. Also given the fact that yagya practice leads to riots in the streets, maybe its best to keep all things TM out of school On Mon, 3/24/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 24, 2014, 11:51 PM Woe is that Quiet-time meditation GAP we will endure with other competitive countries in the world if these anti-science nuts have their way kicking quiet time out of schools. If you understand the science now on meditation then it would be no good to fall in to a quiet time meditation gap in our schools and workplaces behind our trading partners and these emerging economies now.-Buck RJW writes: It looks like MJ is somebody that has no idea what's going on in our public schools these days. Apparently he's not much into education. Go figure. Old history of evangelical christians hating on meditation. Going back with TM even to Berkeley, California 1960's days and their inception of the NJ. Court case back then. This methodical assault on science and schools by a small group of small-minded people smells of christian rats. Prove to me my nose is wrong. I bet you can't. =Buck mjackson74 writes: why do you assume she is a Christian? I feel it is a bad thing when a few christian nuts could derail professional educators from employing meditation a quiet time in schools as part of educational design. It defies good science with their religious non-sense. -Buck Yep, it is true a quiet-time Gap in education evidently is opening even with developing nations in Central and South America too. This is not good at all for us North Americans. This bigoted ignorance of a few overly religious people against good public education puts us all once again in an extremely bad competitive position in the world economies. These anti-science religious nuts are being extremely dangerous to everyone in opposing quiet-time meditation in schools. -Buck Yes, I worry for a future Quiet-time-transcending-Meditation-Gap that America is going to suffer because of these idiot cultist christians if we as Americans cannot keep up with the Chinese, Japanese and others all around the Pacific rim who are adopting transcending meditation in to their economies for their students on good scientific grounds.-Buck awoelflebater writes: I have to sort of agree with you on this subject regarding this one mother who objected to TM because of the danger that it might be based in some sort of religion. She sounds narrow minded and fearful to me. I think a few minutes of TM quiet time for most schools would be beneficial. It might actually get these kids off their phones for a whole 20 minutes. I don't applaud this woman, I think there are millions out there exactly like her - unimaginative, unexposed to much beyond white bread American values and otherwise stuck in the mud. I'll go further to conjecture she's a middle class Republican. punditster writes: On 3/23/2014 1:31 AM, LEnglish5 wrote: There's a huge concerted effort (by the massive 26 members) to attemptto sabotage any and all QUiet Time Schools in San Francisco. Mjacksonis apparently a member. https://www.facebook.com/pages/SF-Parents-Against-TM-in-Public-Schools/201123776750702 In case you didn't know, M. Jackson is apparently working for John Knapp at TM-Free. Is there much of any truth to MJ's counter-revolutionary poison?.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/24/2014 3:41 PM, salyavin808 wrote: Good point, especially when you take the actual meaning of mantras into account. The mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning. Right, they just happen to be identical to some that do. TM mantras do not have any semantic meaning, otherwise they would be listed as words in a Sanskrit lexicon.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/24/2014 4:17 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Not the bija mantras. The bija mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning. In TM you get only one single bija mantra. Good point, especially when you take the actual meaning of mantras into account. The mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning. Right, they just happen to be identical to some that do.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Ann, I respectfully disagree. If there is anything to be vigilant about, it is the separation of church and state. State including schools. There are many special interests looking for any tiny opening in that area. The oft used, slippery slope very much applies here, I think. I think TM in schools would be great. But I think we need to find a different way to transform that environment, I'm afraid. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : This is just cult hysteria and misdirection on Buck's part. Thomas Jefferson *was* a Christian, and he objected to *any* form of religious practice being added to the school systems of America because that violated the Constitution of the United States. Or possibly Buck believes that the tyranny referred to in Jefferson's famous quote below referred to rakshasas. :-) It didn't...it referred to a group of Christians who were trying to sneak their practices into a school system, just as the TMO is. I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. I am very much not a Christian, but I would object similarly to any form of religion-based meditation being offered in public schools in America for the same reason -- it violates the Constitution. And there is simply no question that TM (as it is currently taught) is based in religion -- the mantras are the names (or nicknames, for the nitpickers) of Hindu gods, and Hindu gods and teachers are chanted to and bowed down to during the puja, without which *TM cannot be taught*. For similar reasons I would opposed any form of Buddhist meditation (including mindfulness) being taught in American public schools *if it included and demanded traditional Buddhist rituals as part of the teaching process*. If a technique can be *totally* divorced from its religious background, such that no invocation of or mention of the religious trappings are ever needed to learn and practice the technique, then I'd see no problem with such a technique being taught in schools. But TM does NOT fit that criterion. Never has, never will. This was decided in the courts w.r.t. TM decades ago. You are waa too hung up on the concept of religion. You are positively spooked by it. Practicing a meditation technique for a few minutes in some North American school room is a long way from what was or may still be happening in Catholic schools with its indoctrination and spiritual brainwashing. Sitting down for a few minutes to shut out the world is potentially a great thing given that America's typical school environment is pretty much entropic noise and superficiality. Get off your paranoidal high horse and get a grip. You're hysterical. If you take half a second to think for a change you'd realize just about everything we do in our day is based on some religious practice or culture or belief. We're grounded in it as human beings. I had no idea you were such a prissy wussy, Bawwy.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
I'm all for quiet time...let them read a book for 15 minutes or sit quietly or write. If schools want to incorporate meditatation, then why not just teach the concept of breathing and paying attention to that and call it a relaxation skill. I agree with separation of church and state, but remember thinking it was getting ridiculous when the under God phrase in the Pledge of Allegiance was ruled unconstitutional by the 9th District Court. This ruling was later reversed. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Ann, I respectfully disagree. If there is anything to be vigilant about, it is the separation of church and state. State including schools. There are many special interests looking for any tiny opening in that area. The oft used, slippery slope very much applies here, I think. I think TM in schools would be great. But I think we need to find a different way to transform that environment, I'm afraid. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : This is just cult hysteria and misdirection on Buck's part. Thomas Jefferson *was* a Christian, and he objected to *any* form of religious practice being added to the school systems of America because that violated the Constitution of the United States. Or possibly Buck believes that the tyranny referred to in Jefferson's famous quote below referred to rakshasas. :-) It didn't...it referred to a group of Christians who were trying to sneak their practices into a school system, just as the TMO is. I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. I am very much not a Christian, but I would object similarly to any form of religion-based meditation being offered in public schools in America for the same reason -- it violates the Constitution. And there is simply no question that TM (as it is currently taught) is based in religion -- the mantras are the names (or nicknames, for the nitpickers) of Hindu gods, and Hindu gods and teachers are chanted to and bowed down to during the puja, without which *TM cannot be taught*. For similar reasons I would opposed any form of Buddhist meditation (including mindfulness) being taught in American public schools *if it included and demanded traditional Buddhist rituals as part of the teaching process*. If a technique can be *totally* divorced from its religious background, such that no invocation of or mention of the religious trappings are ever needed to learn and practice the technique, then I'd see no problem with such a technique being taught in schools. But TM does NOT fit that criterion. Never has, never will. This was decided in the courts w.r.t. TM decades ago. You are waa too hung up on the concept of religion. You are positively spooked by it. Practicing a meditation technique for a few minutes in some North American school room is a long way from what was or may still be happening in Catholic schools with its indoctrination and spiritual brainwashing. Sitting down for a few minutes to shut out the world is potentially a great thing given that America's typical school environment is pretty much entropic noise and superficiality. Get off your paranoidal high horse and get a grip. You're hysterical. If you take half a second to think for a change you'd realize just about everything we do in our day is based on some religious practice or culture or belief. We're grounded in it as human beings. I had no idea you were such a prissy wussy, Bawwy.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Having grown up saying the Pledge, I very much agree. There is so much that relies on general consensus, Like obscenity laws. Those are left to the community, and usually it works out. Like saying under God, in the pledge. It wasn't a big deal, and you could always not say it if you wanted. I remember as a grade schooler, sitting under a big Christmas Tree in the foyer singing Chistmas carols, even though I wasn't Christian. But now the agendas are so hardened, and polarized that the common consensus doesn't seem to work well anymore. It's always nice to hear your voice, Emily. (-; ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote : I'm all for quiet time...let them read a book for 15 minutes or sit quietly or write. If schools want to incorporate meditatation, then why not just teach the concept of breathing and paying attention to that and call it a relaxation skill. I agree with separation of church and state, but remember thinking it was getting ridiculous when the under God phrase in the Pledge of Allegiance was ruled unconstitutional by the 9th District Court. This ruling was later reversed. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Ann, I respectfully disagree. If there is anything to be vigilant about, it is the separation of church and state. State including schools. There are many special interests looking for any tiny opening in that area. The oft used, slippery slope very much applies here, I think. I think TM in schools would be great. But I think we need to find a different way to transform that environment, I'm afraid. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : This is just cult hysteria and misdirection on Buck's part. Thomas Jefferson *was* a Christian, and he objected to *any* form of religious practice being added to the school systems of America because that violated the Constitution of the United States. Or possibly Buck believes that the tyranny referred to in Jefferson's famous quote below referred to rakshasas. :-) It didn't...it referred to a group of Christians who were trying to sneak their practices into a school system, just as the TMO is. I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. I am very much not a Christian, but I would object similarly to any form of religion-based meditation being offered in public schools in America for the same reason -- it violates the Constitution. And there is simply no question that TM (as it is currently taught) is based in religion -- the mantras are the names (or nicknames, for the nitpickers) of Hindu gods, and Hindu gods and teachers are chanted to and bowed down to during the puja, without which *TM cannot be taught*. For similar reasons I would opposed any form of Buddhist meditation (including mindfulness) being taught in American public schools *if it included and demanded traditional Buddhist rituals as part of the teaching process*. If a technique can be *totally* divorced from its religious background, such that no invocation of or mention of the religious trappings are ever needed to learn and practice the technique, then I'd see no problem with such a technique being taught in schools. But TM does NOT fit that criterion. Never has, never will. This was decided in the courts w.r.t. TM decades ago. You are waa too hung up on the concept of religion. You are positively spooked by it. Practicing a meditation technique for a few minutes in some North American school room is a long way from what was or may still be happening in Catholic schools with its indoctrination and spiritual brainwashing. Sitting down for a few minutes to shut out the world is potentially a great thing given that America's typical school environment is pretty much entropic noise and superficiality. Get off your paranoidal high horse and get a grip. You're hysterical. If you take half a second to think for a change you'd realize just about everything we do in our day is based on some religious practice or culture or belief. We're grounded in it as human beings. I had no idea you were such a prissy wussy, Bawwy.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Are you responding to me, Richard? Because I was agreeing with you. Not the bija mantras. The bija mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning. In TM you get only one single bija mantra. Good point, especially when you take the actual meaning of mantras into account. The mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning. Right, they just happen to be identical to some that do.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Ann, I respectfully disagree. If there is anything to be vigilant about, it is the separation of church and state. State including schools. There are many special interests looking for any tiny opening in that area. The oft used, slippery slope very much applies here, I think. I think TM in schools would be great. But I think we need to find a different way to transform that environment, I'm afraid. I just can't relate to getting bent out of shape about this kind of church and state thing. I don't believe nor do I care that TM might be a religion. Doing this cool puja thing is the best part about TM; I had my best experiences witnessing the puja. Loved it. So, when people get all crazed about a mental technique being practiced as a sort of recess in schools I simply can't figure it out. There are so many other useless and strange practices in school (like varsity sports) where people spend an inordinate amount of time ra-ra-ing for their team that it all seems so absurd to be jumping on some bandwagon over a little mantra recitation. This world is one crazy, crazy place. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : This is just cult hysteria and misdirection on Buck's part. Thomas Jefferson *was* a Christian, and he objected to *any* form of religious practice being added to the school systems of America because that violated the Constitution of the United States. Or possibly Buck believes that the tyranny referred to in Jefferson's famous quote below referred to rakshasas. :-) It didn't...it referred to a group of Christians who were trying to sneak their practices into a school system, just as the TMO is. I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. I am very much not a Christian, but I would object similarly to any form of religion-based meditation being offered in public schools in America for the same reason -- it violates the Constitution. And there is simply no question that TM (as it is currently taught) is based in religion -- the mantras are the names (or nicknames, for the nitpickers) of Hindu gods, and Hindu gods and teachers are chanted to and bowed down to during the puja, without which *TM cannot be taught*. For similar reasons I would opposed any form of Buddhist meditation (including mindfulness) being taught in American public schools *if it included and demanded traditional Buddhist rituals as part of the teaching process*. If a technique can be *totally* divorced from its religious background, such that no invocation of or mention of the religious trappings are ever needed to learn and practice the technique, then I'd see no problem with such a technique being taught in schools. But TM does NOT fit that criterion. Never has, never will. This was decided in the courts w.r.t. TM decades ago. You are waa too hung up on the concept of religion. You are positively spooked by it. Practicing a meditation technique for a few minutes in some North American school room is a long way from what was or may still be happening in Catholic schools with its indoctrination and spiritual brainwashing. Sitting down for a few minutes to shut out the world is potentially a great thing given that America's typical school environment is pretty much entropic noise and superficiality. Get off your paranoidal high horse and get a grip. You're hysterical. If you take half a second to think for a change you'd realize just about everything we do in our day is based on some religious practice or culture or belief. We're grounded in it as human beings. I had no idea you were such a prissy wussy, Bawwy.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/24/2014 6:51 PM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: *Woe is that Quiet-time meditation GAP we will endure with other competitive countries in the world if these anti-science nuts have their way kicking quiet time out of schools. If you understand the science now on meditation then it would be no good to fall in to a quiet time meditation gap in our schools and workplaces behind our trading partners and these emerging economies now.* *-Buck* Addressing the important issues! We've got to do something, Buck, about our schools. You may have pretty decent elementary and high schools up there in Fairfield, IA, but what's going on in some inner-city schools like in Detroit or Newark, is downright gawd awful! Our public education system is in a crises and is totally out of control and under the control of teacher unions. The students are killing each other in our public schools with rampant drug use, violence, and gang activity. If I had any kids of school age I would take them out of the public school system tomorrow and put them in at least a Waldorf School, even if I had to work two jobs to pay for it. I am not exaggerating! You live up there where it's all mostly nice and peaceful, with decent people all around. But you would probably be appalled if you saw what's going on in some downtown Chicago schools. Don't get me started, Buck. If we don't do something soon, the next generation is going to be doomed to failure. Practicing TM or any kind of meditation or silent prayer for a few minutes a day is a proven way to reduce crime and violence - anyone would be a fool to ignore the benefits of a consciousness-based education. Seriously. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/24/2014 6:54 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Also given the fact that yagya practice leads to riots in the streets, maybe its best to keep all things TM out of school It looks like MJ is posting some fibs here - TM meditation and Hindu religious performances are not the cause of street violence or the problems in our public schools.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/24/2014 8:09 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote: But I think we need to find a different way to transform that environment, I'm afraid. All these problems would probably not even exist if MMY had made TM free of Hindu elements of devotion in the first place. The efficacy of meditation was pretty much proved by Benson - you don't have to use a Sanskrit syllable or phrase and indulge in a religious ritual - in fact, almost any mnemonic device will work for the transcending - there's no special magic in using Hindu tantric mantras. If MMY had refrained from letting his fantasy run wild, and if he had made TM truly secular, he could have retired in 1965 before he met the Beatles and left the movement alone - without all the baggage of the TMSP and the other Maharishi pants. That's what I think.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
Do you think I would have had the super deep experiences I did have, like seeing the white pearl, to name one? Now I know the blue pearl is standard fare, but my pearl was white, and I'm not joking. That white pearl was beautiful. I can't see me having that experience with Benson's technique, but who knows. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 3/24/2014 8:09 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote: But I think we need to find a different way to transform that environment, I'm afraid. All these problems would probably not even exist if MMY had made TM free of Hindu elements of devotion in the first place. The efficacy of meditation was pretty much proved by Benson - you don't have to use a Sanskrit syllable or phrase and indulge in a religious ritual - in fact, almost any mnemonic device will work for the transcending - there's no special magic in using Hindu tantric mantras. If MMY had refrained from letting his fantasy run wild, and if he had made TM truly secular, he could have retired in 1965 before he met the Beatles and left the movement alone - without all the baggage of the TMSP and the other Maharishi pants. That's what I think.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Just a reminder--even if the Quiet Time program had remained in her son's school, her son wouldn't have been required to learn TM. So there was more to what she did than just looking out for her son. Yes, I totally agree. You have made a very good point here. I think she is a busy body thinking she knows best for everyone and that irks me. Apparently this woman has too much time on her hands and is looking for some sort of cause. I personally believe there are far more crucial situations to get up in arms over. well its all in how you look at it - I don't view her actions as knee jerk - she was looking out for her son, who told her, by the way, If I want to join a cult, I'll start my own. This was after he had looked into the TMO himself.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
On 3/24/2014 9:02 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Are you responding to me, Richard? Because I was agreeing with you. So, we are agreed. The bija mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning. That the TM bijas have no semantic meaning, is probably the reason TM works in the first place - a non-semantic mnemonic device won't tend to hold you on the conscious thinking level. Probably any abstract device would work for meditation if the TM instruction and checking were followed correctly. We are all transcending anyway, even without a technique, but a device, like the proverbial string tied around your finger, or a sound, provides the more systematic and repeatable experience. Not the bija mantras. The bija mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning. In TM you get only one single bija mantra. Good point, especially when you take the actual meaning of mantras into account. The mantras used in TM have no semantic meaning. Right, they just happen to be identical to some that do.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
she objected to it on the grounds that it was being presented dishonestly - I have spoken with her and she comes across as neither fearful nor narrow minded. On Sun, 3/23/14, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 23, 2014, 3:33 PM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : I worry for a future Quiet-time-transcending-Meditation-Gap that America is going to suffer because of these idiot cultist christians if we as Americans cannot keep up with the Chinese, Japanese and others all around the Pacific rim who are adopting transcending meditation in to their economies for their students on good scientific grounds.-Buck I have to sort of agree with you on this subject regarding this one mother who objected to TM because of the danger that it might be based in some sort of religion. She sounds narrow minded and fearful to me. I think a few minutes of TM quiet time for most schools would be beneficial. It might actually get these kids off their phones for a whole 20 minutes. I don't applaud this woman, I think there are millions out there exactly like her - unimaginative, unexposed to much beyond white bread American values and otherwise stuck in the mud. I'll go further to conjecture she's a middle class Republican. punditster writes: On 3/23/2014 1:31 AM, LEnglish5 wrote: There's a huge concerted effort (by the massive 26 members) to attemptto sabotage any and all QUiet Time Schools in San Francisco. Mjacksonis apparently a member. https://www.facebook.com/pages/SF-Parents-Against-TM-in-Public-Schools/201123776750702 In case you didn't know, M. Jackson is apparently working for John Knapp at TM-Free.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : she objected to it on the grounds that it was being presented dishonestly - I have spoken with her and she comes across as neither fearful nor narrow minded. She comes across that way in what she did to get quiet time removed from the school system. I still say people like her lack imagination and depth. What else do you know about her that might be relevant other than that she doesn't come across as neither fearful or narrow minded., whatever that means?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
I know she has grit and determination and wasn't afraid to take on the school system and the David Lynch foundation - that's enough for me On Mon, 3/24/14, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 24, 2014, 1:04 AM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : she objected to it on the grounds that it was being presented dishonestly - I have spoken with her and she comes across as neither fearful nor narrow minded. She comes across that way in what she did to get quiet time removed from the school system. I still say people like her lack imagination and depth. What else do you know about her that might be relevant other than that she doesn't come across as neither fearful or narrow minded., whatever that means?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I know she has grit and determination and wasn't afraid to take on the school system and the David Lynch foundation - that's enough for me Grit is one thing and, believe me, I am an admirer of it. But I think her cause is not worthy of her grit. She is campaigning against something that is really very benign at worst and at best a vast improvement on the kids deeking out to the nearest parking lot for a joint.
