Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : MMY also said, Reincarnation is for the ignorant, which is kind of specious IMHO since everybody is ignorant! (i.e. short of enlightenment), therefore, Reincarnation is for everybody. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 10/1/2014 1:41 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : Someone recently told me that Marshy referred to Nader as Ram reincarnated, is that true? It's true that Marshy spoke astounding amounts of crap that, even if any of it was possible, he couldn't possibly have known about. But I never heard him actually say this one. Maybe I just nodded off during the weight in gold moment or the 96 hour introduction to his book of discoveries about human physiology. Maharishi selected Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam because: he loves the most There is some doubt that either of you ever heard or were in the presence of MMY to hear him speak, whether nodded or not. Go figure. Maharishi selected There is some doubt that either of you ever heard or were in the presence of MMY to hear him speak, whether nodded or not. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
From what Maharishi said, anyone who attains CC is no longer going to be reincarnated, so, thus far, 17 people who report CC in the first study that Fred Travis did, and the (last I heard) 51 new people who report CC in the new study he's doing, are no longer sufficiently ignorant to reincarnate. Did I understand MMY correctly? Was MMY correct, regardless of my understanding? Are any of the 17 people in the first study or 51 people in teh 2nd study really in CC? /shrugs... L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : MMY also said, Reincarnation is for the ignorant, which is kind of specious IMHO since everybody is ignorant! (i.e. short of enlightenment), therefore, Reincarnation is for everybody. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 10/1/2014 1:41 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : Someone recently told me that Marshy referred to Nader as Ram reincarnated, is that true? It's true that Marshy spoke astounding amounts of crap that, even if any of it was possible, he couldn't possibly have known about. But I never heard him actually say this one. Maybe I just nodded off during the weight in gold moment or the 96 hour introduction to his book of discoveries about human physiology. Maharishi selected Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam because: he loves the most There is some doubt that either of you ever heard or were in the presence of MMY to hear him speak, whether nodded or not. Go figure. Maharishi selected There is some doubt that either of you ever heard or were in the presence of MMY to hear him speak, whether nodded or not. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
We don't believe in reincarnation -Maharishi
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : We don't believe in reincarnation -Maharishi Also, from the Maharishi quotes site: Asked if he believed in reincarnation: I am opposed to it. Another time (holding a flower): One carnation is enough. http://dns.org.uk/TMCafe/Quotes.htm http://dns.org.uk/TMCafe/Quotes.htm
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
I believe he said We are against it (not to say that he did not also say your quote). Being against it to me is far richer in meaning, funnier, and to me characterizes his style of communication. He spoke with different levels of meaning, with double (and triple) entendre (not sexual in instances that I heard). His quip was funny, decoupling his words from esoteria suitable for their focus on modern educated audiences, yet still conveying (what I believe) he meant. Being against it means he was promoting a method (in his mind) that made reincarnation unnecessary. If asked if he believed in the existance any curable disease, a witty doctor might say the same. This is instructive (to me) -- a message that his, and any teacher's words need to be carefully parsed, not over generalized, viewed in its specific context and for what audience, don't assume its the full teach or truth being conveyed, and most importantly, loosen up, let your sense of humor blossom (more). His is I believe the traditional view that the seeds of reincarnation (the vast mountain of karma -- both the small chunk bitten off in this life (prarabdha karma) as well as the remainder of the huge yet to be dealt with (sanchita karma) are burned by the fires of knowledge (from Gita). (And personally I do not count anything M said as authoritative. Nor that of (much) of any teacher or source of knowledge (or words). But for me, he did provide some useful starting points for personal investigation and validation.) Quick aside: paraphrasing an early day's conversation: M: we all have a mountain of karma. CLutes (apparently believing he was quite far along on the path): M, do I have a mountain of karma? M: You Charlie have more like a huge mountain range. What are the fires of knowledge? A number of possibilities, not necessarily mutually exclusive: understanding and knowledge, transcending, kundalini rising and burning all latent samskaras in the chakras, culminating in the blooming of the crown chakra, grace of a fully realized teacher, grace of the divine other stuff And does no reincarnation mean no more individuality after the body drops? (And my position is at least sympathetic with uber atheist Sam Harris who said in a funny quip, at a conference on death ( or something) with speakers across a full spectrum of views, paraphrasing The key thing is we will all dance around the question and weave greatly nuanced and intricate answers, but the bottom line is none of us know what really happens when the physical body dies. Reincarnation in human form does not preclude continuation of inner evolution in many astral and causal planes (Autobio of Yogi has good discussion of this). And is Moksha / Liberation (that is, all Sanchita Karma (the whole range, the big enchilada) is burned / roasted) the same as enlightenment? I suggest Liberation is the ultimate real thing, with a clear criteria. Enlightenment, at what ever stage, not so much. That is not to discount the freedom and contentment of any such stages and states.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
I don't know if Billy, you hijacked the thread or not but reincarnation is for the ignorant is a typical Indian belief. I wasn't even aware of it until I saw a Nat Geo or Discover channel documentary on funerals in different countries and they covered the burning ghats in Varanasi which I've seen. They mentioned that people come there to be cremated so they don't reincarnate but gurus aren't allowed because they gurus to come back and keep teaching. Weird uh? On 10/12/2014 10:44 AM, wgm4u wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : MMY also said, Reincarnation is for the ignorant, which is kind of specious IMHO since everybody is ignorant! (i.e. short of enlightenment), therefore, Reincarnation is for everybody. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 10/1/2014 1:41 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : Someone recently told me that Marshy referred to Nader as Ram reincarnated, is that true? It's true that Marshy spoke astounding amounts of crap that, even if any of it was possible, he couldn't possibly have known about. But I never heard him actually say this one. Maybe I just nodded off during the weight in gold moment or the 96 hour introduction to his book of discoveries about human physiology. Maharishi selected Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam because: /he loves the most There is some doubt that either of you ever heard or were in the presence of MMY to hear him speak, whether nodded or not. Go figure./ Maharishi selected /There is some doubt that either of you ever heard or were in the presence of MMY to hear him speak, whether nodded or not. Go figure./
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
You are right, Seerdope, that's how I remember it, and as you say, it was a very clever and witty answer. Typical of MMY. He had a great sense of humor and loved to play with words. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seerdope@... wrote : I believe he said We are against it (not to say that he did not also say your quote). Being against it to me is far richer in meaning, funnier, and to me characterizes his style of communication. He spoke with different levels of meaning, with double (and triple) entendre (not sexual in instances that I heard). His quip was funny, decoupling his words from esoteria suitable for their focus on modern educated audiences, yet still conveying (what I believe) he meant. Being against it means he was promoting a method (in his mind) that made reincarnation unnecessary. If asked if he believed in the existance any curable disease, a witty doctor might say the same. This is instructive (to me) -- a message that his, and any teacher's words need to be carefully parsed, not over generalized, viewed in its specific context and for what audience, don't assume its the full teach or truth being conveyed, and most importantly, loosen up, let your sense of humor blossom (more). His is I believe the traditional view that the seeds of reincarnation (the vast mountain of karma -- both the small chunk bitten off in this life (prarabdha karma) as well as the remainder of the huge yet to be dealt with (sanchita karma) are burned by the fires of knowledge (from Gita). (And personally I do not count anything M said as authoritative. Nor that of (much) of any teacher or source of knowledge (or words). But for me, he did provide some useful starting points for personal investigation and validation.) Quick aside: paraphrasing an early day's conversation: M: we all have a mountain of karma. CLutes (apparently believing he was quite far along on the path): M, do I have a mountain of karma? M: You Charlie have more like a huge mountain range. What are the fires of knowledge? A number of possibilities, not necessarily mutually exclusive: understanding and knowledge, transcending, kundalini rising and burning all latent samskaras in the chakras, culminating in the blooming of the crown chakra, grace of a fully realized teacher, grace of the divine other stuff And does no reincarnation mean no more individuality after the body drops? (And my position is at least sympathetic with uber atheist Sam Harris who said in a funny quip, at a conference on death ( or something) with speakers across a full spectrum of views, paraphrasing The key thing is we will all dance around the question and weave greatly nuanced and intricate answers, but the bottom line is none of us know what really happens when the physical body dies. Reincarnation in human form does not preclude continuation of inner evolution in many astral and causal planes (Autobio of Yogi has good discussion of this). And is Moksha / Liberation (that is, all Sanchita Karma (the whole range, the big enchilada) is burned / roasted) the same as enlightenment? I suggest Liberation is the ultimate real thing, with a clear criteria. Enlightenment, at what ever stage, not so much. That is not to discount the freedom and contentment of any such stages and states.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
I believe he said We are against it (not to say that he did not also say your quote). I've read both, meaning the the same but against perhaps wittier ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : You are right, Seerdope, that's how I remember it, and as you say, it was a very clever and witty answer. Typical of MMY. He had a great sense of humor and loved to play with words. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seerdope@... wrote : I believe he said We are against it (not to say that he did not also say your quote). Being against it to me is far richer in meaning, funnier, and to me characterizes his style of communication. He spoke with different levels of meaning, with double (and triple) entendre (not sexual in instances that I heard). His quip was funny, decoupling his words from esoteria suitable for their focus on modern educated audiences, yet still conveying (what I believe) he meant. Being against it means he was promoting a method (in his mind) that made reincarnation unnecessary. If asked if he believed in the existance any curable disease, a witty doctor might say the same. This is instructive (to me) -- a message that his, and any teacher's words need to be carefully parsed, not over generalized, viewed in its specific context and for what audience, don't assume its the full teach or truth being conveyed, and most importantly, loosen up, let your sense of humor blossom (more). His is I believe the traditional view that the seeds of reincarnation (the vast mountain of karma -- both the small chunk bitten off in this life (prarabdha karma) as well as the remainder of the huge yet to be dealt with (sanchita karma) are burned by the fires of knowledge (from Gita). (And personally I do not count anything M said as authoritative. Nor that of (much) of any teacher or source of knowledge (or words). But for me, he did provide some useful starting points for personal investigation and validation.) Quick aside: paraphrasing an early day's conversation: M: we all have a mountain of karma. CLutes (apparently believing he was quite far along on the path): M, do I have a mountain of karma? M: You Charlie have more like a huge mountain range. What are the fires of knowledge? A number of possibilities, not necessarily mutually exclusive: understanding and knowledge, transcending, kundalini rising and burning all latent samskaras in the chakras, culminating in the blooming of the crown chakra, grace of a fully realized teacher, grace of the divine other stuff And does no reincarnation mean no more individuality after the body drops? (And my position is at least sympathetic with uber atheist Sam Harris who said in a funny quip, at a conference on death ( or something) with speakers across a full spectrum of views, paraphrasing The key thing is we will all dance around the question and weave greatly nuanced and intricate answers, but the bottom line is none of us know what really happens when the physical body dies. Reincarnation in human form does not preclude continuation of inner evolution in many astral and causal planes (Autobio of Yogi has good discussion of this). And is Moksha / Liberation (that is, all Sanchita Karma (the whole range, the big enchilada) is burned / roasted) the same as enlightenment? I suggest Liberation is the ultimate real thing, with a clear criteria. Enlightenment, at what ever stage, not so much. That is not to discount the freedom and contentment of any such stages and states.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
On 10/12/2014 2:42 PM, seerd...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I believe he said We are against it (not to say that he did not also say your quote). /At one time MMY said he was opposed to reincarnation, implying that anyone who became a siddha would not have to be reincarnated again - they would be liberated from the endless cycle of rebirth.//Apparently the idea of reincarnation was invented by the historical Buddha. Go figure. // //According to my professor Dr. Olivelle, ...the origin of the concept of the cycle of birth and death, the concept of samsara, and the concept of liberation in the Indian tradition, were in part the creation of the non-Vedic Shramana tradition./ Notes: Dr. Patrick Olivelle, the translator of the Upaishads, is the Chair, Department of Asian Studies, and Director, Center for Asian Studies, at the University of Texas at Austin. Works cited: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation Flood, Gavin. Olivelle, Patrick. 2003. The Blackwell Companion to Hinduism. Malden: Blackwell. pg. 273-4. Being against it to me is far richer in meaning, funnier, and to me characterizes his style of communication. He spoke with different levels of meaning, with double (and triple) entendre (not sexual in instances that I heard). His quip was funny, decoupling his words from esoteria suitable for their focus on modern educated audiences, yet still conveying (what I believe) he meant. Being against it means he was promoting a method (in his mind) that made reincarnation unnecessary. If asked if he believed in the existance any curable disease, a witty doctor might say the same. This is instructive (to me) -- a message that his, and any teacher's words need to be carefully parsed, not over generalized, viewed in its specific context and for what audience, don't assume its the full teach or truth being conveyed, and most importantly, loosen up, let your sense of humor blossom (more). His is I believe the traditional view that the seeds of reincarnation (the vast mountain of karma -- both the small chunk bitten off in this life (prarabdha karma) as well as the remainder of the huge yet to be dealt with (sanchita karma) are burned by the fires of knowledge (from Gita). (And personally I do not count anything M said as authoritative. Nor that of (much) of any teacher or source of knowledge (or words). But for me, he did provide some useful starting points for personal investigation and validation.) Quick aside: paraphrasing an early day's conversation: M: we all have a mountain of karma. CLutes (apparently believing he was quite far along on the path): M, do I have a mountain of karma? M: You Charlie have more like a huge mountain range. What are the fires of knowledge? A number of possibilities, not necessarily mutually exclusive: * understanding and knowledge, * transcending, * kundalini rising and burning all latent samskaras in the chakras, culminating in the blooming of the crown chakra, * grace of a fully realized teacher, * grace of the divine * other stuff And does no reincarnation mean no more individuality after the body drops? (And my position is at least sympathetic with uber atheist Sam Harris who said in a funny quip, at a conference on death ( or something) with speakers across a full spectrum of views, paraphrasing The key thing is we will all dance around the question and weave greatly nuanced and intricate answers, but the bottom line is none of us know what really happens when the physical body dies. Reincarnation in human form does not preclude continuation of inner evolution in many astral and causal planes (Autobio of Yogi has good discussion of this). And is Moksha / Liberation (that is, all Sanchita Karma (the whole range, the big enchilada) is burned / roasted) the same as enlightenment? I suggest Liberation is the ultimate real thing, with a clear criteria. Enlightenment, at what ever stage, not so much. That is not to discount the freedom and contentment of any such stages and states.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
On 10/12/2014 2:56 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] wrote: I don't know if Billy, you hijacked the thread or not but reincarnation is for the ignorant is a typical Indian belief. I wasn't even aware of it until I saw a Nat Geo or Discover channel documentary on funerals in different countries and they covered the burning ghats in Varanasi which I've seen. They mentioned that people come there to be cremated so they don't reincarnate but gurus aren't allowed because they gurus to come back and keep teaching. Weird uh? /You are not even making any sense - almost everyone in India believes in reincarnation; it's one of the leading tenets of Hinduism and Buddhism.//It's also one of the main tenets of Yoga - to liberate oneself from the binding cycle of birth, death and rebirth. Not sure how you were able to sneak into the burning ghats at Varanasi//- tourists aren't usually allowed in there just to look around./ /According to Hindu traditions, the reasons for preferring to destroy the corpse by fire, over burying it into ground, is to induce a feeling of detachment into the freshly disembodied spirit, which will be helpful to encourage it into passing to its next destination, lest it remain near its former body. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cremation#Hinduism_and_other_Indian_origin_religions/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
On 10/1/2014 2:41 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I remember one time when the Fred Lenz - Rama guy did that to me, and I called him on it. We were on one of our field trips, this time I think i the Louvre in Paris -- no guided tours or anything, just 100 or so Rama students wandering around the galleries, sometimes running into him, sometimes not. /It must cost upwards of $10,000 each to get 100 students from Sante Fe, NM or Los Angeles, CA over to Paris France and inside the Louvre to look at some paintings. Not to mention the cost of putting Rama up at the Ritz -15 pl. Vendôme for a few days. Go figure./
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 10/1/2014 2:41 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: I remember one time when the Fred Lenz - Rama guy did that to me, and I called him on it. We were on one of our field trips, this time I think i the Louvre in Paris -- no guided tours or anything, just 100 or so Rama students wandering around the galleries, sometimes running into him, sometimes not. It must cost upwards of $10,000 each to get 100 students from Sante Fe, NM or Los Angeles, CA over to Paris France and inside the Louvre to look at some paintings. Not to mention the cost of putting Rama up at the Ritz -15 pl. Vendôme for a few days. Go figure. And all that just to display his talents at losing them in the museum. The sound like children losing their parent at the museum, who are overjoyed at their reunion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
On 10/1/2014 2:41 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: So I found myself in this Egyptian room looking down at a glass exhibit that contained a sarcophagus and a well-preserved body. I was quite taken with the bones of this guy's face, and was standing there looking at it when Rama walked up behind me, looked down, and said, Yep, that was you, all right. /Speaking of Kings and pedigree, Barry COULD have been a famous pharoah in Egypt 3,000 years ago; and maybe he could have afforded a sarcophagus inside a large pyramid in Giza next to the ///Sphynx/; and maybe he did reincarnate as Barry Wright - who knows? The problem is that if so, Barry then would have gone from being a wealthy Egyptian King - down to being a part-time scribe for a science magazine just to be able to pay the rent. I wonder what Barry did for him to be reincarnated as a nobody - it must be pretty depressing to have that kind of karma hanging over your shoulder. Go figure./
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
On 10/1/2014 2:41 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Who wouldn't want to be told that you're the reincarnation of a god? /Non sequitur. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence. The Rama mentioned in the Ramayama by Valmiki was a deified hero, not a god. Apparently you thought your TM mantra was the name of god - Ram, maybe left over from your days spent as the Pharoah Ram in Upper Egypt.//No wonder you were attracted to the Zen Master Rama. It's all just a karmic mix-up. Go figure./
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
On 10/1/2014 2:41 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: People will believe anything that makes them feel more important. If they've gotten to the point in their self discovery where they gain most of their personal sense of self-worth from the teacher they study with, they'll also believe anything that seems to make that teacher seem more important. /There's no doubt that your teacher, Lenz, could levitate higher than any of my teachers, if that kind of stage magic is important to you in order for you to have any sense of self-worth. It must have been a devastating to your ego when your teacher failed to float on water (RIP). Do you think you will ever get over it? Maybe in a next life?/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 10/1/2014 2:41 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: People will believe anything that makes them feel more important. If they've gotten to the point in their self discovery where they gain most of their personal sense of self-worth from the teacher they study with, they'll also believe anything that seems to make that teacher seem more important. There's no doubt that your teacher, Lenz, could levitate higher than any of my teachers, if that kind of stage magic is important to you in order for you to have any sense of self-worth. It must have been a devastating to your ego when your teacher failed to float on water (RIP). Do you think you will ever get over it? Maybe in a next life? Sometimes, Ricky, you totally crack me up. You're in good form today, maybe you should go buy a lottery ticket.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 10/1/2014 2:41 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: People will believe anything that makes them feel more important. If they've gotten to the point in their self discovery where they gain most of their personal sense of self-worth from the teacher they study with, they'll also believe anything that seems to make that teacher seem more important. There's no doubt that your teacher, Lenz, could levitate higher than any of my teachers, if that kind of stage magic is important to you in order for you to have any sense of self-worth. It must have been a devastating to your ego when your teacher failed to float on water (RIP). Do you think you will ever get over it? Maybe in a next life? Sometimes, Ricky, you totally crack me up. You're in good form today, maybe you should go buy a lottery ticket. We all have won the lottery to have won Richard's commentary daily.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
On 10/2/2014 1:06 PM, danfriedman2002 wrote: People will believe anything that makes them feel more important. If they've gotten to the point in their self discovery where they gain most of their personal sense of self-worth from the teacher they study with, they'll also believe anything that seems to make that teacher seem more important. /There's no doubt that your teacher, Lenz, could levitate higher than any of my teachers, if that kind of stage magic is important to you in order for you to have any sense of self-worth. It must have been a devastating to your ego when your teacher failed to float on water (RIP). Do you think you will ever get over it? Maybe in a next life?/ Sometimes, Ricky, you totally crack me up. You're in good form today, maybe you should go buy a lottery ticket. We all have won the lottery to have won Richard's commentary daily. Maybe I should re-phrase my quip: /Frederick Lenz was able to levitate and perform many more magical tricks than any teacher I ever had, but Lenz failed to walk on water and wound up floating on water instead (RIP)./
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 10/2/2014 1:06 PM, danfriedman2002 wrote: People will believe anything that makes them feel more important. If they've gotten to the point in their self discovery where they gain most of their personal sense of self-worth from the teacher they study with, they'll also believe anything that seems to make that teacher seem more important. There's no doubt that your teacher, Lenz, could levitate higher than any of my teachers, if that kind of stage magic is important to you in order for you to have any sense of self-worth. It must have been a devastating to your ego when your teacher failed to float on water (RIP). Do you think you will ever get over it? Maybe in a next life? Sometimes, Ricky, you totally crack me up. You're in good form today, maybe you should go buy a lottery ticket. We all have won the lottery to have won Richard's commentary daily. Maybe I should re-phrase my quip: Frederick Lenz was able to levitate and perform many more magical tricks than any teacher I ever had, but Lenz failed to walk on water and wound up floating on water instead (RIP). A common risk of people attempting extra-ordinary acts is that the next one won't work. Kinda fatal mistake. So kids, never try these things at home. These demonstrations have been performed by Professional Drivers. Safety first.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
Isn't it fascinating the crap that people believe because the person they consider their spiritual teacher said it? Or even if they've only heard fifth-hand that he *might* have said it? I'm back to that moment I mentioned before jokingly -- being able someday to figure out the neurophysiology of That Moment in which the human brain says to itself, Well, the stuff this teacher has said to me so far seems to be true, therefore I am going to 'suspend disbelief' forever and believe that *everything* he ever says to me again is true as well. THAT would be an interesting phenomenon to quantify. W.r.t. to telling someone stuff about their past lives, there is an Absolute Requirement that the person 'suspend disbelief' and believe that the teacher *could* possibly know something about this thing he rationally couldn't possibly know anything about. Besides, when it comes to 'past lives,' everyone *wants to believe* that what they're being told is true, as long as the past personage is cool enough. ( That's why you've got so many Newagers who claim to be Cleopatra and so few claiming to be Cleopatra's manicurist. :-) I remember one time when the Fred Lenz - Rama guy did that to me, and I called him on it. We were on one of our field trips, this time I think i the Louvre in Paris -- no guided tours or anything, just 100 or so Rama students wandering around the galleries, sometimes running into him, sometimes not. So I found myself in this Egyptian room looking down at a glass exhibit that contained a sarcophagus and a well-preserved body. I was quite taken with the bones of this guy's face, and was standing there looking at it when Rama walked up behind me, looked down, and said, Yep, that was you, all right. Naturally, I was all ego-d out for a second, but then for some reason I caught myself and turned to him and said, Your're just fucking with me, right? He seemed shocked for an instant that anyone would actually doubt his Holy Word, but then laughed and said, Right, and turned to walk away. But then he turned back and said, You're really the guy over there in that other case across the room, and laughed again. Great moment. *Of course* there was no rational way he could have known who I was in a 'past life.' But that didn't matter to me because for that one instant I *wanted* to be more self-important, and to have been some Pharoah back in Egypt. I mention it because whether Maharishi ever said this about King Tony or not, the same dynamics could have been in play. Who wouldn't want to be told that you're the reincarnation of a god? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXnikgHTK0 People will believe anything that makes them feel more important. If they've gotten to the point in their self discovery where they gain most of their personal sense of self-worth from the teacher they study with, they'll also believe anything that seems to make that teacher seem more important. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 8:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Someone recently told me that Marshy referred to Nader as Ram reincarnated, is that true? It's true that Marshy spoke astounding amounts of crap that, even if any of it was possible, he couldn't possibly have known about. But I never heard him actually say this one. Maybe I just nodded off during the weight in gold moment or the 96 hour introduction to his book of discoveries about human physiology.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
On 10/1/2014 1:41 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Someone recently told me that Marshy referred to Nader as Ram reincarnated, is that true? It's true that Marshy spoke astounding amounts of crap that, even if any of it was possible, he couldn't possibly have known about. But I never heard him actually say this one. Maybe I just nodded off during the weight in gold moment or the 96 hour introduction to his book of discoveries about human physiology. /There is some doubt that either of you ever heard or were in the presence of MMY to hear him speak, whether nodded or not. Go figure./
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
If you see buddha on the road, kill him. See Barry, you interpret Rama's words in one way, but they could have been something completely different. I believe you miss the point he was making. No matter, your version serves to embellish the view you carry of yourself of some kind of renegade. As for the rest of your treatise, it does become tiring to read it so often. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Isn't it fascinating the crap that people believe because the person they consider their spiritual teacher said it? Or even if they've only heard fifth-hand that he *might* have said it? I'm back to that moment I mentioned before jokingly -- being able someday to figure out the neurophysiology of That Moment in which the human brain says to itself, Well, the stuff this teacher has said to me so far seems to be true, therefore I am going to 'suspend disbelief' forever and believe that *everything* he ever says to me again is true as well. THAT would be an interesting phenomenon to quantify. W.r.t. to telling someone stuff about their past lives, there is an Absolute Requirement that the person 'suspend disbelief' and believe that the teacher *could* possibly know something about this thing he rationally couldn't possibly know anything about. Besides, when it comes to 'past lives,' everyone *wants to believe* that what they're being told is true, as long as the past personage is cool enough. ( That's why you've got so many Newagers who claim to be Cleopatra and so few claiming to be Cleopatra's manicurist. :-) I remember one time when the Fred Lenz - Rama guy did that to me, and I called him on it. We were on one of our field trips, this time I think i the Louvre in Paris -- no guided tours or anything, just 100 or so Rama students wandering around the galleries, sometimes running into him, sometimes not. So I found myself in this Egyptian room looking down at a glass exhibit that contained a sarcophagus and a well-preserved body. I was quite taken with the bones of this guy's face, and was standing there looking at it when Rama walked up behind me, looked down, and said, Yep, that was you, all right. Naturally, I was all ego-d out for a second, but then for some reason I caught myself and turned to him and said, Your're just fucking with me, right? He seemed shocked for an instant that anyone would actually doubt his Holy Word, but then laughed and said, Right, and turned to walk away. But then he turned back and said, You're really the guy over there in that other case across the room, and laughed again. Great moment. *Of course* there was no rational way he could have known who I was in a 'past life.' But that didn't matter to me because for that one instant I *wanted* to be more self-important, and to have been some Pharoah back in Egypt. I mention it because whether Maharishi ever said this about King Tony or not, the same dynamics could have been in play. Who wouldn't want to be told that you're the reincarnation of a god? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXnikgHTK0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXnikgHTK0 People will believe anything that makes them feel more important. If they've gotten to the point in their self discovery where they gain most of their personal sense of self-worth from the teacher they study with, they'll also believe anything that seems to make that teacher seem more important. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 8:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Someone recently told me that Marshy referred to Nader as Ram reincarnated, is that true? It's true that Marshy spoke astounding amounts of crap that, even if any of it was possible, he couldn't possibly have known about. But I never heard him actually say this one. Maybe I just nodded off during the weight in gold moment or the 96 hour introduction to his book of discoveries about human physiology.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 10/1/2014 1:41 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : Someone recently told me that Marshy referred to Nader as Ram reincarnated, is that true? It's true that Marshy spoke astounding amounts of crap that, even if any of it was possible, he couldn't possibly have known about. But I never heard him actually say this one. Maybe I just nodded off during the weight in gold moment or the 96 hour introduction to his book of discoveries about human physiology. Maharishi selected Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam because: he loves the most There is some doubt that either of you ever heard or were in the presence of MMY to hear him speak, whether nodded or not. Go figure. Maharishi selected There is some doubt that either of you ever heard or were in the presence of MMY to hear him speak, whether nodded or not. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree [1 Attachment]
On 10/1/2014 2:41 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I'm back to that moment I mentioned before jokingly -- being able someday to figure out the neurophysiology of That Moment in which the human brain says to itself, Well, the stuff this teacher has said to me so far seems to be true, therefore I am going to 'suspend disbelief' forever and believe that *everything* he ever says to me again is true as well. /Almost anyone with a brain would realize in minutes that anyone calling themselves the Zen Master Rama was in a state of cognitive dissonance. //Any normal person wouldn't believe anything someone said with a made-up name like that. //Everyone knows that the deified hero Rama was a native of South Asia and that Zen is a popular name for a meditation practice in the Far East. //It would be interesting to figure out at what moment your human brain gave up using common sense. //Go figure./
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : If you see buddha on the road, kill him. See Barry, you interpret Rama's words in one way, but they could have been something completely different. I believe you miss the point he was making. No matter, your version serves to embellish the view you carry of yourself of some kind of renegade. As for the rest of your treatise, it does become tiring to read it so often. (-: At least you seemed to have read it all. I find, for me, you start in on the first sentence, drag yourself to the second sentence, find yourself nodding off after the first paragraph, skimming down further into the post hoping to all that is holy or not holy that there will be something new or fresh. Finding that this is all just so much recycled rubbish you sigh and stop reading and move on. Chalk up another snoozer from bawee. Different day, same message. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Isn't it fascinating the crap that people believe because the person they consider their spiritual teacher said it? Or even if they've only heard fifth-hand that he *might* have said it? I'm back to that moment I mentioned before jokingly -- being able someday to figure out the neurophysiology of That Moment in which the human brain says to itself, Well, the stuff this teacher has said to me so far seems to be true, therefore I am going to 'suspend disbelief' forever and believe that *everything* he ever says to me again is true as well. THAT would be an interesting phenomenon to quantify. W.r.t. to telling someone stuff about their past lives, there is an Absolute Requirement that the person 'suspend disbelief' and believe that the teacher *could* possibly know something about this thing he rationally couldn't possibly know anything about. Besides, when it comes to 'past lives,' everyone *wants to believe* that what they're being told is true, as long as the past personage is cool enough. ( That's why you've got so many Newagers who claim to be Cleopatra and so few claiming to be Cleopatra's manicurist. :-) I remember one time when the Fred Lenz - Rama guy did that to me, and I called him on it. We were on one of our field trips, this time I think i the Louvre in Paris -- no guided tours or anything, just 100 or so Rama students wandering around the galleries, sometimes running into him, sometimes not. So I found myself in this Egyptian room looking down at a glass exhibit that contained a sarcophagus and a well-preserved body. I was quite taken with the bones of this guy's face, and was standing there looking at it when Rama walked up behind me, looked down, and said, Yep, that was you, all right. Naturally, I was all ego-d out for a second, but then for some reason I caught myself and turned to him and said, Your're just fucking with me, right? He seemed shocked for an instant that anyone would actually doubt his Holy Word, but then laughed and said, Right, and turned to walk away. But then he turned back and said, You're really the guy over there in that other case across the room, and laughed again. Great moment. *Of course* there was no rational way he could have known who I was in a 'past life.' But that didn't matter to me because for that one instant I *wanted* to be more self-important, and to have been some Pharoah back in Egypt. I mention it because whether Maharishi ever said this about King Tony or not, the same dynamics could have been in play. Who wouldn't want to be told that you're the reincarnation of a god? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXnikgHTK0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXnikgHTK0 People will believe anything that makes them feel more important. If they've gotten to the point in their self discovery where they gain most of their personal sense of self-worth from the teacher they study with, they'll also believe anything that seems to make that teacher seem more important.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 10/1/2014 2:41 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: I'm back to that moment I mentioned before jokingly -- being able someday to figure out the neurophysiology of That Moment in which the human brain says to itself, Well, the stuff this teacher has said to me so far seems to be true, therefore I am going to 'suspend disbelief' forever and believe that *everything* he ever says to me again is true as well. Almost anyone with a brain would realize in minutes that anyone calling themselves the Zen Master Rama was in a state of cognitive dissonance. Any normal person wouldn't believe anything someone said with a made-up name like that. Everyone knows that the deified hero Rama was a native of South Asia and that Zen is a popular name for a meditation practice in the Far East. It would be interesting to figure out at what moment your human brain gave up using common sense. Go figure. All I know is that this is another classic portrait of the Zen Master. Completing the image is the backlit perm, the slouchy leather jacket, the airbrushed acne scars and the manly chin sans cleft (which he did not possess in real life, BTW). This little photo just screams Look at Me! I'm the guy who is too cool for my pants and will saunter around the Louvre with my disciples throwing out inane and ego-boosting comments to keep them just off balance enough and hungry for my attention so they'll stick around long enough to keep filling my bank account and feeding my extraordinary ego that this photo exemplifies.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 10/1/2014 2:41 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: I'm back to that moment I mentioned before jokingly -- being able someday to figure out the neurophysiology of That Moment in which the human brain says to itself, Well, the stuff this teacher has said to me so far seems to be true, therefore I am going to 'suspend disbelief' forever and believe that *everything* he ever says to me again is true as well. Again Barry? You are now taking seriously something you said jokingly. I could spell this disorder out for you, and I have in the past. But that won't help. Almost anyone with a brain would realize in minutes that anyone calling themselves the Zen Master Rama was in a state of cognitive dissonance. Any normal person wouldn't believe anything someone said with a made-up name like that. Everyone knows that the deified hero Rama was a native of South Asia and that Zen is a popular name for a meditation practice in the Far East. It would be interesting to figure out at what moment your human brain gave up using common sense. Go figure. All I know is that this is another classic portrait of the Zen Master. Completing the image is the backlit perm, the slouchy leather jacket, the airbrushed acne scars and the manly chin sans cleft (which he did not possess in real life, BTW). This little photo just screams Look at Me! I'm the guy who is too cool for my pants and will saunter around the Louvre with my disciples throwing out inane and ego-boosting comments to keep them just off balance enough and hungry for my attention so they'll stick around long enough to keep filling my bank account and feeding my extraordinary ego that this photo exemplifies.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : If you see buddha on the road, kill him. See Barry, you interpret Rama's words in one way, but they could have been something completely different. I believe you miss the point he was making. No matter, your version serves to embellish the view you carry of yourself of some kind of renegade. As for the rest of your treatise, it does become tiring to read it so often. (-: At least you seemed to have read it all. I find, for me, you start in on the first sentence, drag yourself to the second sentence, find yourself nodding off after the first paragraph, skimming down further into the post hoping to all that is holy or not holy that there will be something new or fresh. Finding that this is all just so much recycled rubbish you sigh and stop reading and move on. Chalk up another snoozer from bawee. Different day, same message. May I make a suggestion? The approach that I use, and feel free to improvise on it as you like, is to read one sentence of each Post. In this Barry Delusion, I skipped to the topic sentence of his second paragraph. Seems he has one crazy idea that he pompously goes on and on... In his subsequest post, I skipped directly to his last sentence. It works for me and I wonder if it might work for you. Alternatively: it does become tiring to read it so often. Finding that this is all just so much recycled rubbish you sigh and stop reading and move on. Hope this helps. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Isn't it fascinating the crap that people believe because the person they consider their spiritual teacher said it? Or even if they've only heard fifth-hand that he *might* have said it? I'm back to that moment I mentioned before jokingly -- being able someday to figure out the neurophysiology of That Moment in which the human brain says to itself, Well, the stuff this teacher has said to me so far seems to be true, therefore I am going to 'suspend disbelief' forever and believe that *everything* he ever says to me again is true as well. THAT would be an interesting phenomenon to quantify. W.r.t. to telling someone stuff about their past lives, there is an Absolute Requirement that the person 'suspend disbelief' and believe that the teacher *could* possibly know something about this thing he rationally couldn't possibly know anything about. Besides, when it comes to 'past lives,' everyone *wants to believe* that what they're being told is true, as long as the past personage is cool enough. ( That's why you've got so many Newagers who claim to be Cleopatra and so few claiming to be Cleopatra's manicurist. :-) I remember one time when the Fred Lenz - Rama guy did that to me, and I called him on it. We were on one of our field trips, this time I think i the Louvre in Paris -- no guided tours or anything, just 100 or so Rama students wandering around the galleries, sometimes running into him, sometimes not. So I found myself in this Egyptian room looking down at a glass exhibit that contained a sarcophagus and a well-preserved body. I was quite taken with the bones of this guy's face, and was standing there looking at it when Rama walked up behind me, looked down, and said, Yep, that was you, all right. Naturally, I was all ego-d out for a second, but then for some reason I caught myself and turned to him and said, Your're just fucking with me, right? He seemed shocked for an instant that anyone would actually doubt his Holy Word, but then laughed and said, Right, and turned to walk away. But then he turned back and said, You're really the guy over there in that other case across the room, and laughed again. Great moment. *Of course* there was no rational way he could have known who I was in a 'past life.' But that didn't matter to me because for that one instant I *wanted* to be more self-important, and to have been some Pharoah back in Egypt. I mention it because whether Maharishi ever said this about King Tony or not, the same dynamics could have been in play. Who wouldn't want to be told that you're the reincarnation of a god? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXnikgHTK0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXnikgHTK0 People will believe anything that makes them feel more important. If they've gotten to the point in their self discovery where they gain most of their personal sense of self-worth from the teacher they study with, they'll also believe anything that seems to make that teacher seem more important.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
As for the rest of your treatise, it does become tiring to read it so often. (-: On 10/1/2014 8:38 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: At least you seemed to have read it all. I find, for me, you start in on the first sentence, drag yourself to the second sentence, find yourself nodding off after the first paragraph, skimming down further into the post hoping to all that is holy or not holy that there will be something new or fresh. Finding that this is all just so much recycled rubbish you sigh and stop reading and move on. Chalk up another snoozer from bawee. Different day, same message. /Maybe you forgot to realize that this story is meant for the lurking reporters - it probably doesn't have anything to do with you or Tony's pedigree. At the risk of being redundant myself, let me repeat the TB's FFL SOP: winning./// ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Isn't it fascinating the crap that people believe because the person they consider their spiritual teacher said it? Or even if they've only heard fifth-hand that he *might* have said it?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
I have reproduced some paragraphs below that describe the relationship of a student to the teacher and a spiritual teaching from one of the books of Zen-trained Adyashanti. This seems somewhat different than what is expected in the TMO. 'There is no such thing as riding the coattails of an enlightened being to enlightenment itself. A failure to understand this can lead (as so many have been led) to cultish fanaticism, fundamentalism, magical thinking, disappointment, disillusionment, and/or spiritual infancy. While it is understandable that many people project their unresolved parental issues, relationship issues, authority issues, sexuality issues, as well as God issues onto their spiritual teacher (and are sometimes encouraged to do so by unscrupulous spiritual teachers), it is essential to understand that a spiritual teacher's role is to be a good and wise spiritual guide as well as an embodiment of the truth that he or she points toward.' 'While there may be deep respect, love, and even devotion to one's spiritual teacher, it is important not to abdicate all of your authority over to your spiritual teacher or project all divinity exclusively onto them. Your life belongs in your hands, not someone else's. Take responsibility for it. There is a fine line between being truly open to the guidance of a spiritual teacher and regressing into a childish relationship where you abdicate your adulthood and project all wisdom and divinity onto the teacher. Each person needs to find a mature balance, being truly and deeply open to their spiritual guide without abdicating all of their authority.' 'The same can be applied to a spiritual teaching. A spiritual teaching is a finger pointing toward reality; it is not reality itself. To be in a true and mature relationship with a spiritual teaching requires you to apply it, not simply believe in it. Belief leads to various forms of fundamentalism and shuts down the curiosity and inquiry that are essential to open the way for awakening and what lies beyond awakening. A good spiritual teaching is something that you work with and apply. In doing so, it works on you (often in a hidden way) and helps reveal to you the truth (and falseness) that lies within you.' 'What is it to not abdicate your own authority and yet not claim a false or self-centred authority that will lead you into delusion? I am afraid that I cannot tell you. You see, no one can tell you how not to deceive yourself. If in the deepest place within you, you want and desire truth above all else, even though you go astray in a thousand different ways, you will find yourself somehow, again and again, being brought back to what is true. And if you do not want and desire truth above all else, well, you already know what that leads to.' From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree Isn't it fascinating the crap that people believe because the person they consider their spiritual teacher said it? Or even if they've only heard fifth-hand that he *might* have said it? I'm back to that moment I mentioned before jokingly -- being able someday to figure out the neurophysiology of That Moment in which the human brain says to itself, Well, the stuff this teacher has said to me so far seems to be true, therefore I am going to 'suspend disbelief' forever and believe that *everything* he ever says to me again is true as well. THAT would be an interesting phenomenon to quantify. W.r.t. to telling someone stuff about their past lives, there is an Absolute Requirement that the person 'suspend disbelief' and believe that the teacher *could* possibly know something about this thing he rationally couldn't possibly know anything about. Besides, when it comes to 'past lives,' everyone *wants to believe* that what they're being told is true, as long as the past personage is cool enough. ( That's why you've got so many Newagers who claim to be Cleopatra and so few claiming to be Cleopatra's manicurist. :-) I remember one time when the Fred Lenz - Rama guy did that to me, and I called him on it. We were on one of our field trips, this time I think i the Louvre in Paris -- no guided tours or anything, just 100 or so Rama students wandering around the galleries, sometimes running into him, sometimes not. So I found myself in this Egyptian room looking down at a glass exhibit that contained a sarcophagus and a well-preserved body. I was quite taken with the bones of this guy's face, and was standing there looking at it when Rama walked up behind me, looked down, and said, Yep, that was you, all right. Naturally, I was all ego-d out for a second, but then for some reason I caught myself and turned to him and said, Your're just
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
For those interested, the link is: http://www.adyashanti.org/library/The_Way_of_Liberation_Ebook.pdf http://www.adyashanti.org/library/The_Way_of_Liberation_Ebook.pdf My fav is The End of Your World, a book recommendation that I got at Batgap (returned the favor by using Batgap's commission link to Amazon). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I have reproduced some paragraphs below that describe the relationship of a student to the teacher and a spiritual teaching from one of the books of Zen-trained Adyashanti. This seems somewhat different than what is expected in the TMO. 'There is no such thing as riding the coattails of an enlightened being to enlightenment itself. A failure to understand this can lead (as so many have been led) to cultish fanaticism, fundamentalism, magical thinking, disappointment, disillusionment, and/or spiritual infancy. While it is understandable that many people project their unresolved parental issues, relationship issues, authority issues, sexuality issues, as well as God issues onto their spiritual teacher (and are sometimes encouraged to do so by unscrupulous spiritual teachers), it is essential to understand that a spiritual teacher's role is to be a good and wise spiritual guide as well as an embodiment of the truth that he or she points toward.' 'While there may be deep respect, love, and even devotion to one's spiritual teacher, it is important not to abdicate all of your authority over to your spiritual teacher or project all divinity exclusively onto them. Your life belongs in your hands, not someone else's. Take responsibility for it. There is a fine line between being truly open to the guidance of a spiritual teacher and regressing into a childish relationship where you abdicate your adulthood and project all wisdom and divinity onto the teacher. Each person needs to find a mature balance, being truly and deeply open to their spiritual guide without abdicating all of their authority.' 'The same can be applied to a spiritual teaching. A spiritual teaching is a finger pointing toward reality; it is not reality itself. To be in a true and mature relationship with a spiritual teaching requires you to apply it, not simply believe in it. Belief leads to various forms of fundamentalism and shuts down the curiosity and inquiry that are essential to open the way for awakening and what lies beyond awakening. A good spiritual teaching is something that you work with and apply. In doing so, it works on you (often in a hidden way) and helps reveal to you the truth (and falseness) that lies within you.' 'What is it to not abdicate your own authority and yet not claim a false or self-centred authority that will lead you into delusion? I am afraid that I cannot tell you. You see, no one can tell you how not to deceive yourself. If in the deepest place within you, you want and desire truth above all else, even though you go astray in a thousand different ways, you will find yourself somehow, again and again, being brought back to what is true. And if you do not want and desire truth above all else, well, you already know what that leads to.' From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree Isn't it fascinating the crap that people believe because the person they consider their spiritual teacher said it? Or even if they've only heard fifth-hand that he *might* have said it? I'm back to that moment I mentioned before jokingly -- being able someday to figure out the neurophysiology of That Moment in which the human brain says to itself, Well, the stuff this teacher has said to me so far seems to be true, therefore I am going to 'suspend disbelief' forever and believe that *everything* he ever says to me again is true as well. THAT would be an interesting phenomenon to quantify. W.r.t. to telling someone stuff about their past lives, there is an Absolute Requirement that the person 'suspend disbelief' and believe that the teacher *could* possibly know something about this thing he rationally couldn't possibly know anything about. Besides, when it comes to 'past lives,' everyone *wants to believe* that what they're being told is true, as long as the past personage is cool enough. ( That's why you've got so many Newagers who claim to be Cleopatra and so few claiming to be Cleopatra's manicurist. :-) I remember one time when the Fred Lenz - Rama guy did that to me, and I called him on it. We were on one of our field trips, this time I think i the Louvre in Paris -- no guided tours or anything, just 100 or so Rama students wandering around the galleries, sometimes running into him, sometimes not. So I found myself in this Egyptian room looking down at a glass exhibit
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
I like much of this. Especially Belief leads to various forms of fundamentalism and shuts down the curiosity and inquiry that are essential to open the way for awakening and what lies beyond awakening. I have recently witnessed on another forum some of the ways in which belief taken to the point of True Believerism can turn in a heartbeat into angry, persecutorial Fundamentalism, right out of the Salem witch trials. One minute a guy is waxing blissed-outedly about something and the next minute someone disagrees with some piece of dogma he believes in and the same blissed-out guy turns into Torquemada. It's kinda icky. I still think Adyashanti uses the word truth too often, and somewhat inappropriately in that he seems to make an assumption that his truth is some kind of universal truth that everyone will someday come to recognize *as* truth. But I may not have read enough of his stuff to know for sure if that's what he's thinking or trying to say. It's just an impression I've gotten watching videos of him -- he speaks the word truth as if he is absolutely, completely convinced not only that he knows what that is for him, but for everyone else. Color me unconvinced. But I have friends who have met with him and really like him, and I reserve judgment until I have seen the guy live. I really like what he says here about riding the coattails of the teacher. That is SUCH a common trap, one that you see pretty much across the whole spiritual smorgasbord. Based on what I've seen in my life, becoming a groupie may not really be the smartest path to realizing one's enlightenment. :-) From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree I have reproduced some paragraphs below that describe the relationship of a student to the teacher and a spiritual teaching from one of the books of Zen-trained Adyashanti. This seems somewhat different than what is expected in the TMO. 'There is no such thing as riding the coattails of an enlightened being to enlightenment itself. A failure to understand this can lead (as so many have been led) to cultish fanaticism, fundamentalism, magical thinking, disappointment, disillusionment, and/or spiritual infancy. While it is understandable that many people project their unresolved parental issues, relationship issues, authority issues, sexuality issues, as well as God issues onto their spiritual teacher (and are sometimes encouraged to do so by unscrupulous spiritual teachers), it is essential to understand that a spiritual teacher's role is to be a good and wise spiritual guide as well as an embodiment of the truth that he or she points toward.' 'While there may be deep respect, love, and even devotion to one's spiritual teacher, it is important not to abdicate all of your authority over to your spiritual teacher or project all divinity exclusively onto them. Your life belongs in your hands, not someone else's. Take responsibility for it. There is a fine line between being truly open to the guidance of a spiritual teacher and regressing into a childish relationship where you abdicate your adulthood and project all wisdom and divinity onto the teacher. Each person needs to find a mature balance, being truly and deeply open to their spiritual guide without abdicating all of their authority.' 'The same can be applied to a spiritual teaching. A spiritual teaching is a finger pointing toward reality; it is not reality itself. To be in a true and mature relationship with a spiritual teaching requires you to apply it, not simply believe in it. Belief leads to various forms of fundamentalism and shuts down the curiosity and inquiry that are essential to open the way for awakening and what lies beyond awakening. A good spiritual teaching is something that you work with and apply. In doing so, it works on you (often in a hidden way) and helps reveal to you the truth (and falseness) that lies within you.' 'What is it to not abdicate your own authority and yet not claim a false or self-centred authority that will lead you into delusion? I am afraid that I cannot tell you. You see, no one can tell you how not to deceive yourself. If in the deepest place within you, you want and desire truth above all else, even though you go astray in a thousand different ways, you will find yourself somehow, again and again, being brought back to what is true. And if you do not want and desire truth above all else, well, you already know what that leads to.' From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:41 AM Subject: Re
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I like much of this. Especially Belief leads to various forms of fundamentalism and shuts down the curiosity and inquiry that are essential to open the way for awakening and what lies beyond awakening. I have recently witnessed on another forum some of the ways in which belief taken to the point of True Believerism can turn in a heartbeat into angry, persecutorial Fundamentalism, right out of the Salem witch trials. One minute a guy is waxing blissed-outedly about something and the next minute someone disagrees with some piece of dogma he believes in and the same blissed-out guy turns into Torquemada. It's kinda icky. I still think Adyashanti uses the word truth too often, and somewhat inappropriately in that he seems to make an assumption that his truth is some kind of universal truth that everyone will someday come to recognize *as* truth. But I may not have read enough of his stuff to know for sure if that's what he's thinking or trying to say. It's just an impression I've gotten watching videos of him -- he speaks the word truth as if he is absolutely, completely convinced not only that he knows what that is for him, but for everyone else. Color me unconvinced. But I have friends who have met with him and really like him, and I reserve judgment until I have seen the guy live. I really like what he says here about riding the coattails of the teacher. That is SUCH a common trap, one that you see pretty much across the whole spiritual smorgasbord. Based on what I've seen in my life, becoming a groupie may not really be the smartest path to realizing one's enlightenment. :-) For those who have been following my personal Methodology for Dealing with Barry Posts (Remember the disclaimer? Develop your own methods, results vary from person to person.) you may remember that what I do, for myself, is choose one sentence to read, thus avoiding the boredom (and worse). For This Barry Post I chose a sentence from the exact middle (I diversify my choices from opening sentences, to ending sentences, to one's in the middle). Ss here it is: But I may not have read enough of his stuff to know for sure if that's what he's thinking or trying to say. I agree. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree I have reproduced some paragraphs below that describe the relationship of a student to the teacher and a spiritual teaching from one of the books of Zen-trained Adyashanti. This seems somewhat different than what is expected in the TMO. 'There is no such thing as riding the coattails of an enlightened being to enlightenment itself. A failure to understand this can lead (as so many have been led) to cultish fanaticism, fundamentalism, magical thinking, disappointment, disillusionment, and/or spiritual infancy. While it is understandable that many people project their unresolved parental issues, relationship issues, authority issues, sexuality issues, as well as God issues onto their spiritual teacher (and are sometimes encouraged to do so by unscrupulous spiritual teachers), it is essential to understand that a spiritual teacher's role is to be a good and wise spiritual guide as well as an embodiment of the truth that he or she points toward.' 'While there may be deep respect, love, and even devotion to one's spiritual teacher, it is important not to abdicate all of your authority over to your spiritual teacher or project all divinity exclusively onto them. Your life belongs in your hands, not someone else's. Take responsibility for it. There is a fine line between being truly open to the guidance of a spiritual teacher and regressing into a childish relationship where you abdicate your adulthood and project all wisdom and divinity onto the teacher. Each person needs to find a mature balance, being truly and deeply open to their spiritual guide without abdicating all of their authority.' 'The same can be applied to a spiritual teaching. A spiritual teaching is a finger pointing toward reality; it is not reality itself. To be in a true and mature relationship with a spiritual teaching requires you to apply it, not simply believe in it. Belief leads to various forms of fundamentalism and shuts down the curiosity and inquiry that are essential to open the way for awakening and what lies beyond awakening. A good spiritual teaching is something that you work with and apply. In doing so, it works on you (often in a hidden way) and helps reveal to you the truth (and falseness) that lies within you.' 'What is it to not abdicate your own authority and yet not claim a false or self-centred authority that will lead you into delusion? I am afraid that I cannot
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
That book was a big help to me, as it contained advice that no TM teacher I knew seemed to have a clue about. From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree My fav is The End of Your World, a book recommendation that I got at Batgap (returned the favor by using Batgap's commission link to Amazon).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : That book was a big help to me, as it contained advice that no TM teacher I knew seemed to have a clue about. The End of Your World was recommended to me by a TMer. I am a TM Teacher who, for several years after Teacher Training didn't read anything in any other system of Spiritual Knowledge. After that I read evrything I could get my hands on. I can offer (or exchange recommendations) if you'd like. From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree My fav is The End of Your World, a book recommendation that I got at Batgap (returned the favor by using Batgap's commission link to Amazon).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : As for the rest of your treatise, it does become tiring to read it so often. (-: On 10/1/2014 8:38 AM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Atleast you seemed to have read it all. I find, for me, you start in on the first sentence, drag yourself to the second sentence, find yourself nodding off after the first paragraph, skimming down further into the post hoping to all that is holy or not holy that there will be something new or fresh. Finding that this is all just so much recycled rubbish you sigh and stop reading and move on. Chalk up another snoozer from bawee. Different day, same message. Maybe you forgot to realize that this story is meant for the lurking reporters - it probably doesn't have anything to do with you or Tony's pedigree. At the risk of being redundant myself, let me repeat the TB's FFL SOP: winning. Believe me, the lurking reporters have drifted off to sleep long ago... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Isn'tit fascinating the crap that people believe because the person they consider their spiritual teacher said it? Or even if they've only heard fifth-hand that he *might* have said it?
