Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[dlgegg]

According to the investigator for the Humand Society here in eastrn Missouri, 
when he is called to investigate a charge of animal abuse, he ends up reporting 
the people on child abuse.  The 2 seems to go hand in hand.

 Natalie  wrote: 
> Yes, definitely some people should have been spayed/neutered!
> 
> The least requirement would be some kind of a course on child-rearing and 
> responsible parenting.
> 
> I wouldn’t adopt to just anyone – therefore, why should morons have babies 
> and abuse or ignore them?
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Joslin Potter
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:08 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting
> 
>  
> 
> That is horrible, those poor children. Thank God for their Grandparents, it's 
> too bad however, that Grandma and Grandpa can't enjoy them like they are 
> supposed too... WTH is up with people?
> 
>  
> 
> From: "dlg...@windstream.net" 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting
> 
> 
> I would like to spay/neuter a lot of the "intelligent" human population.  
> They also treat their children the same way.  i know of one who feeds her 
> children cereal because they can get that by themselves.  She would prefer to 
> do her heroin instead of cooking.  She is now in prison and her children stay 
> with grandparents or roam the streets.
> 
> 
>  Natalie  wrote: 
> > Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, 
> > they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife 
> > and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times 
> > throughout the year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but 
> > obviously very differently, depending on the species.  
> > 
> > It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I 
> > doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be 
> > that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a 
> > waiting list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of 
> > healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds 
> > is unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think 
> > much has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same 
> > thing.  People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their 
> > pets, and many are still total jerks!  Those of us who do rescue, are 
> > paying emotional, physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible 
> > behavior, because we care.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> > Kathryn Hargreaves
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Does this happen with all species?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral 
> > cats bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's 
> > probably better to try to get numbers down.  I prefer the methods some used 
> > with wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with 
> > their hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
> > exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
> > 
> > It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
> > biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm 
> > counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb 
> > their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because 
> > they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich 
> > hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of 
> > food were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
> > 
> > The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have 
> > been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them 
> > out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them 
> > to bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be 
> > (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
> > 
> >

[Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[Natalie]

Lee, my cat population beats yours!  There’s no cat fur in the milk I make – 
see all the soy milk makers that are available: 
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image 

 &fr=goodsearch-yhsif&va=Soy+milk+maker 

The one I have is super easy, too – not touched by human hands or cat paws!

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee 
Evans
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 11:20 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

 

Not sure I could make my own soy milk.  I don't much like milk with cat fur in 
it.  I have almost 40 cats here at any given time, mostly elderly or socially 
or physically handicapped and I can't keep them off counters.  My house was not 
well organized due to a little mistake in planning.  Actually big mistake in 
planning when I moved in so I will, at some future date have to readjust and 
then maybe cooking and cleaning will be a whole lot easier but right now I'm 
concentrating on keeping my head above the financial waters. Hey I forgot about 
the AETA that good ole G Dubya passed.  Just talk against anything in the food 
industry and you've had it.  Fortunately, it hasn't been enforced under Pres. 
Obama but Romney, should we have the misfortune of 4 years of him will be able 
to fill the prisons with people who won't eat fried chicken.  Sigh.  Is this a 
wonderful country or what!  Incidentally I supported Kucinich when he made his 
short run for President.  Angels from Heaven are rarely elected.  He's a 
wonderful, thoughtful, intelligent and logical man.

I actually think it's more humane, if someone is a good shot, to kill a deer 
then what is done to the bovine population in factory farming but I don't feel 
that we need to eat animals.  We are omnivores and have a choice.

 

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Natalie,

The pounds/shelters have a higher profile than do rescuers.  If they
sincerely implement the No Kill Equation, they can save over 90% of their
intake, including those animals brought in or dumped by the minority of the
public that is irresponsible.  Until they do so, however, they are not a
resource for rescuers, but rather yet another burden on them (as they rely
too heavily on rescuers to bail the animals, rather than marketing them
themselves).

There are still small wild cats in Africa.  I wonder how often they go into
heat.

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:14 AM, Natalie  wrote:

> *Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long
> ago, they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered
> wildlife and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times
> throughout the year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but
> obviously very differently, depending on the species.  *
>
> *It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I
> doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be
> that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a
> waiting list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of
> healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds
> is unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think
> much has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same
> thing.  People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their
> pets, and many are still total jerks!  Those of us who do rescue, are
> paying emotional, physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible
> behavior, because we care.*
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
>
> ** **
>
> Does this happen with all species?
>
> ** **
>
> I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral
> cats bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's
> probably better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some
> used with wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with
> their hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at
> exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
> 
>
> ** **
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
>
> *It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach
> a biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm
> counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb
> their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because
> they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich
> hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of
> food were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.**
> ***
>
> *The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they
> have been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped
> them out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing
> them to bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it
> can be (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.*
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM
>
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species
> will level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat,
> despite predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a
> species' population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized
> ones take up some of that capacity.
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
>
> *No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point!
> According to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while
> hunted herds twin or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact,
> predators are better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals,
> while hunters avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool –
> healthier animals are not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms
> by mating the best with the best specimen, producing fantastic trophy
> animals.*
>
> *No, I do not eat any meat.*
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle b

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[Lee Evans]

During the years of concentration camps, very few babies were born to the women 
who were being tortured there, even though rape was rampant.  It wasn't that 
they "turned off their reproductive system" because it was a "legitimate rape" 
but because below a certain nutritional level, the body of a woman can't 
sustain a pregnancy and miscarries.  Deer and other wild animal populations 
regulate themselves during times when food is scarce and then grow during times 
when food is readily available.  Feeding corn to deer in the winter assures all 
these darling sport hunters of a good stock of victims for their sport when 
deer season arrives again.  If hunting and eating the victim is a good means of 
population control, maybe we should reconsider cannibalism.  Humans are soon 
going to outgrow themselves.  There are 8 billion of us infecting the planet at 
this time and if even half of those breed, we will have another 4 billion 
within a year or two..


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!





 From: Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 8:14 AM
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW:  FW: Bow hunting
 

Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they 
would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
differently, depending on the species.  
It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I doubt 
that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that every 
time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list – 
what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, beautiful 
animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable.  I 
started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much has changed, other 
than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  People are still not 
spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! 
 Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially 
for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we care.
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn 
Hargreaves
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
 
Does this happen with all species?
 
I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
 
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm counts 
go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb their 
fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because they may 
seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich hormone) 
regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food were 
available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have been 
able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them out at 
the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to bring 
back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be (hunting 
licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn 
Hargreaves
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
some of that capacity.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According to 
research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds twin 
or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact, predators are better 
hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters avoid them, 
thereby actually degrading the gene pool – healthier animals are not the r

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[Natalie]

Yes, definitely some people should have been spayed/neutered!

The least requirement would be some kind of a course on child-rearing and 
responsible parenting.

I wouldn’t adopt to just anyone – therefore, why should morons have babies and 
abuse or ignore them?

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin 
Potter
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:08 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

 

That is horrible, those poor children. Thank God for their Grandparents, it's 
too bad however, that Grandma and Grandpa can't enjoy them like they are 
supposed too... WTH is up with people?

 

From: "dlg...@windstream.net" 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting


I would like to spay/neuter a lot of the "intelligent" human population.  They 
also treat their children the same way.  i know of one who feeds her children 
cereal because they can get that by themselves.  She would prefer to do her 
heroin instead of cooking.  She is now in prison and her children stay with 
grandparents or roam the streets.


 Natalie  wrote: 
> Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, 
> they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
> probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
> year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
> differently, depending on the species.  
> 
> It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I 
> doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that 
> every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting 
> list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, 
> beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is 
> unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much 
> has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  
> People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many 
> are still total jerks!  Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, 
> physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we 
> care.
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
> 
>  
> 
> Does this happen with all species?
> 
>  
> 
> I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
> bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
> better to try to get numbers down.  I prefer the methods some used with 
> wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
> hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
> exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
> 
> It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
> biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm 
> counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb 
> their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because 
> they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich 
> hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food 
> were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
> 
> The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have 
> been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them 
> out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to 
> bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be 
> (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM
> 
> 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
> 
> Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
> level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
> predation (of any sort).  This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
> population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
> some of that capacity.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
> 
> No, they wouldn’t reproduce the sam

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[dlgegg]

WHEN YOU FIND OUT LET ME KNOW.  IF I HAD MY WAY, MOM WOULD HAVE BEEN SPAYED 
BEFORE SHE HAD 4 ILLIGETIMATE CHILDREN .  IF SHE ENJOYS GETTING PREGNANT SO 
MUCH, TAKE A PILL OR SOMETHING.  DON'T HAVE CHILDREN WHO WILL HAVE TO SUFFER 
THE CONSEQUENCES OF HER ACTIONS.


 Joslin Potter  wrote: 
> That is horrible, those poor children. Thank God for their Grandparents, it's 
> too bad however, that Grandma and Grandpa can't enjoy them like they are 
> supposed too... WTH is up with people?

 


 From: "dlg...@windstream.net" 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW:  FW: Bow hunting
  
I would like to spay/neuter a lot of the "intelligent" human population.  They 
also treat their children the same way.  i know of one who feeds her children 
cereal because they can get that by themselves.  She would prefer to do her 
heroin instead of cooking.  She is now in prison and her children stay with 
grandparents or roam the streets.


 Natalie  wrote: 
> Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, 
> they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
> probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
> year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
> differently, depending on the species.  
> 
> It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I 
> doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that 
> every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting 
> list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, 
> beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is 
> unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much 
> has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  
> People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many 
> are still total jerks!  Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, 
> physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we 
> care.
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
> 
>  
> 
> Does this happen with all species?
> 
>  
> 
> I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
> bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
> better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
> wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
> hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
> exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
> 
> It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
> biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm 
> counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb 
> their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because 
> they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich 
> hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food 
> were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
> 
> The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have 
> been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them 
> out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to 
> bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be 
> (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM
> 
> 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
> 
> Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
> level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
> predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
> population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
> some of that capacity.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
> 
> No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According 
> to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds 
&g

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[Joslin Potter]

That is horrible, those poor children. Thank God for their Grandparents, it's 
too bad however, that Grandma and Grandpa can't enjoy them like they are 
supposed too... WTH is up with people?

 


 From: "dlg...@windstream.net" 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW:  FW: Bow hunting
  
I would like to spay/neuter a lot of the "intelligent" human population.  They 
also treat their children the same way.  i know of one who feeds her children 
cereal because they can get that by themselves.  She would prefer to do her 
heroin instead of cooking.  She is now in prison and her children stay with 
grandparents or roam the streets.


 Natalie  wrote: 
> Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, 
> they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
> probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
> year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
> differently, depending on the species.  
> 
> It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I 
> doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that 
> every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting 
> list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, 
> beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is 
> unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much 
> has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  
> People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many 
> are still total jerks!  Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, 
> physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we 
> care.
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
> 
>  
> 
> Does this happen with all species?
> 
>  
> 
> I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
> bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
> better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
> wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
> hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
> exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
> 
> It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
> biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm 
> counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb 
> their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because 
> they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich 
> hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food 
> were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
> 
> The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have 
> been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them 
> out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to 
> bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be 
> (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM
> 
> 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
> 
> Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
> level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
> predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
> population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
> some of that capacity.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
> 
> No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According 
> to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds 
> twin or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact, predators are 
> better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters 
> avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool – healthier animals are 
> not the result of hun

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[dlgegg]

Do the vets volunteer their services?  Who covers the costs of the meds, etc.  
We have a no kill shelter in our area, but they are having financial problems 
like everyone else and they have to chrge $150.00 for each adoption to cover 
their expenses.  Do vaccine companies ever donate to shelters?  I know pet food 
companies do.

 Joslin Potter  wrote: 
> I really like what our town has, they have a spay and neuter clinic express, 
> services include:
 
Pain Control injection $10.00 
Microchip $20.00 
General Dewormer $5.00 
Rabies Vaccination $10.00 
Distemper combo Vaccination $10.00 
Fecal Parasite Test $15.00 
Frontline application $15.00 
Heartworm Test $15.00 
 
Spays are under $45 for fm cats and $30 for males the only down fall is 
that they are not in one specific area for very long so you have to almost get 
an appointment months in advance which sometimes is not convenient, I wish they 
had more of these that were stationed. Perhaps more people would get their 
animals fixed. I know a friend of mine that lived in Adrian MI, he used a 
friends addess and took his kitties into Ohio where they were fixed for free do 
to income. It is too bad to see all those kittens that get dropped of at animal 
control. We recently lost our FeLV cat on September 25th. he was having 
reoccuring bladder infections and peeing blood, after countless trips, and 
watching him howel and cry up and down the stairs, no longer able to jump on 
furniture, we made the hardest decision for our fur baby. he was 5 dx for 4 yrs 
of his life. However, we did adpot a kitten from our local shelter, looking 
into all those scared and innocent eyes, we
>  might be, when we get caught up, adpot another. Kudos to you Natialie, that 
> is amazing that you can offer shelter to cats/kittens in need. 
 


 From: Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:14 AM
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW:  FW: Bow hunting
  

Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they 
would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
differently, depending on the species.  
It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I doubt 
that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that every 
time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list – 
what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, beautiful 
animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable.  I 
started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much has changed, other 
than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  People are still not 
spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! 
 Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially 
for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we care.
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn 
Hargreaves
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
 
Does this happen with all species?
 
I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
 
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm counts 
go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb their 
fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because they may 
seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich hormone) 
regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food were 
available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have been 
able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them out at 
the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to bring 
back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be (hunting 
licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn 
Hargreaves
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts th

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[dlgegg]

I would like to spay/neuter a lot of the "intelligent" human population.  They 
also treat their children the same way.  i know of one who feeds her children 
cereal because they can get that by themselves.  She would prefer to do her 
heroin instead of cooking.  She is now in prison and her children stay with 
grandparents or roam the streets.


 Natalie  wrote: 
> Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, 
> they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
> probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
> year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
> differently, depending on the species.  
> 
> It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I 
> doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that 
> every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting 
> list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, 
> beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is 
> unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much 
> has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  
> People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many 
> are still total jerks!  Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, 
> physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we 
> care.
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
> 
>  
> 
> Does this happen with all species?
> 
>  
> 
> I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
> bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
> better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
> wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
> hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
> exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
> 
> It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
> biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm 
> counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb 
> their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because 
> they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich 
> hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food 
> were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
> 
> The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have 
> been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them 
> out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to 
> bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be 
> (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM
> 
> 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
> 
> Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
> level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
> predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
> population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
> some of that capacity.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
> 
> No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According 
> to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds 
> twin or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact, predators are 
> better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters 
> avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool – healthier animals are 
> not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms by mating the best with 
> the best specimen, producing fantastic trophy animals.
> 
> No, I do not eat any meat.
> 


___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[Joslin Potter]

I really like what our town has, they have a spay and neuter clinic express, 
services include:
 
Pain Control injection $10.00 
Microchip $20.00 
General Dewormer $5.00 
Rabies Vaccination $10.00 
Distemper combo Vaccination $10.00 
Fecal Parasite Test $15.00 
Frontline application $15.00 
Heartworm Test $15.00 
 
Spays are under $45 for fm cats and $30 for males the only down fall is 
that they are not in one specific area for very long so you have to almost get 
an appointment months in advance which sometimes is not convenient, I wish they 
had more of these that were stationed. Perhaps more people would get their 
animals fixed. I know a friend of mine that lived in Adrian MI, he used a 
friends addess and took his kitties into Ohio where they were fixed for free do 
to income. It is too bad to see all those kittens that get dropped of at animal 
control. We recently lost our FeLV cat on September 25th. he was having 
reoccuring bladder infections and peeing blood, after countless trips, and 
watching him howel and cry up and down the stairs, no longer able to jump on 
furniture, we made the hardest decision for our fur baby. he was 5 dx for 4 yrs 
of his life. However, we did adpot a kitten from our local shelter, looking 
into all those scared and innocent eyes, we
 might be, when we get caught up, adpot another. Kudos to you Natialie, that is 
amazing that you can offer shelter to cats/kittens in need. 
 


 From: Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:14 AM
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW:  FW: Bow hunting
  

Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they 
would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
differently, depending on the species.  
It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I doubt 
that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that every 
time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list – 
what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, beautiful 
animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable.  I 
started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much has changed, other 
than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  People are still not 
spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! 
 Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially 
for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we care.
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn 
Hargreaves
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
 
Does this happen with all species?
 
I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
 
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm counts 
go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb their 
fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because they may 
seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich hormone) 
regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food were 
available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have been 
able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them out at 
the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to bring 
back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be (hunting 
licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn 
Hargreaves
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
some of that capacity.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same wa

[Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[Natalie]

Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they 
would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
differently, depending on the species.  

It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I doubt 
that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that every 
time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list – 
what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, beautiful 
animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable.  I 
started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much has changed, other 
than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  People are still not 
spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! 
 Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially 
for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we care.

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
Kathryn Hargreaves
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

 

Does this happen with all species?

 

I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.

 

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:

It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm counts 
go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb their 
fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because they may 
seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich hormone) 
regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food were 
available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.

The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have been 
able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them out at 
the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to bring 
back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be (hunting 
licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
Kathryn Hargreaves
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM


To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
some of that capacity.

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:

No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According to 
research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds twin 
or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact, predators are better 
hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters avoid them, 
thereby actually degrading the gene pool – healthier animals are not the result 
of hunting – that’s done at deer farms by mating the best with the best 
specimen, producing fantastic trophy animals.

No, I do not eat any meat.

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org