Re: Heart Murmur
Rebecca~ Did vet say what "grade" the heart murmur is??? Many animal\s, and people NORMALLY have a heart murmur of some degree, and, often, cause no problems. I was diagnosed with a heart murmur at age 2... My parents panicked, scared I;d die or develop coronary related problems. Well, I am 50 now, have had MANY, MANY surgeries, and I am probably healthier than the average human. My little dog Dukie, was diagnosed w/ a Grade 4 at 6 mos. I DID have him neutered, as he got older, he had dentals, and he lived to be 19 1/2 years old!! and...it wasn;t his heart that was his demise, but his kidneys. Neutering a cat, even Felv=, is ALWAYS bebeficial...it prevents further relted problems down the road, As for anesthesia, it is a risk. BUT!!! DO NOT ALLOW VET TO USE INJECTABLE agents like telazol, ketamine, xylazine and that white stuff, begins with "P". Insist on pre-sx IV valium, and use of isoflourane, (gas). with incubation. INSIST that Brooklyn is hooked up & administered IV fluids DURING surgery, and for the next 24 hours POST-surgery. This will "Flush" out the anesthesia. They can also administer yohombine (sp?), or another drug to "reverse" the anesthesu=ia, and bring him out of it quicker You MUST be an informed guardian Also, it is common with many felv and FIV cats to have gingivitis..It can be treated VERY successfully with antirobe(clindamycin), some cats may have to be on it long term , but it DOES work!! Ask him to try that first What are you treating his eyes with? Ointment? Drops? With or without steroids? Has allergies or "dry" eye" been ruled out? Too many Weird things here that are bothering me about your vet Did he say Brooklyn needs an echocardiogram?? Unless his murmur is a very HIGH grade, and THAT you would notice, I just don't understand... I would DEFINITELY see another Felv+ friendly) vet ASAP for some answers... Sure, all this could be secondary to the virus, but then why do so many HEALTHY cats also have these problems?? I'm a bit miffed...your vet seems to br sending you "negative" reports... Rebecca, please try the antirobe. Find out what grade the murmur is? And, is the eye Infected:, as with colored discharge, or just clear & teary looking? And, definitely, neutering, or any surgery, using the guidelines I suggested (MALL my vets do this), will make Brooklyn a happier & healthier cat in the long run... Please update Hugs, Patti '
Re: Heart Murmur
Rebecca, I understand why you would be concerned with this vet report. It seems like you've gotten a bunch of "bad news" from this visit. Please don't panic. Let's take this stuff one at a time. In order of scariness... The heart murmur... Patti is right, (I agree with her whole post), you need to know what grade the heart murmur is. Gracie had a heart murmur too. It never gave her a moments trouble. My beloved Siberian Husky, Vixen, was diagnosed with a heart murmur when she was a pup, again, it never gave her any problems. Vixen lived to be 11 and she succumbed to a brain tumor, her passing had nothing to do with her heart. I have heard good things about supplementing with Co-Q10 for heart murmurs/problems. Check it out. One thing I have heard about Co-Q10 is that it shouldn't be stopped abruptly, maybe you could do some research on that and let us know what you find out. I would find a different vet and talk to them about your concerns in getting Wow neutered. The stress of an intact Tom, (those coursing hormones do make their lives more stressful!), might be worth it to you to have him neutered, even if he's "indoor only". A female in heat, anywhere in the vicinity will cause him to become an "outdoor" cat in nothing flat. All of my animals, including my felv cats were spay/neutered, everyone did fine. You may have read some of my posts about Starman. He's tested FIV+ and has had lung congestion and runny eyes since he showed up. I couldn't even attempt to acclimate him to the household while he had his "pom poms", because he was just too hostile to my other cats, (not to mention his excitability causing him stress and making it harder to tame up). I finally brought him in yesterday and while I was nervous about it all day, he came through his operation just fine. Lastly, the gingivitis... Most of our felv kitties show signs of one degree or another of gingivitis. Grace and Jazz had red lined gums most of their lives. I didn't brush their teeth, but I did clean Grace's teeth gently by dipping a Qtip in an oral rinse and running it along her gum lines. Keeping their teeth clean helps to keep it under control. If I were you, I'd look for a board certified Internist that is felv friendly, meaning they don't automatically write off treating a felv + cat just because of their status. Your Wowie is doing fine, you're on top of things and he's happy and content. Take a deep breath and find someone that isn't going to scare the crap out of you when they discover your kitty is displaying typical felv + symptoms. What supps do you have Brooklyn on now? Nina veggiepugs wrote: Well I took Wowie (Brooklyn) to the vet today for his eye infection, which I am now treating, and the dr said to me "He's not neutered!!" I said well, last I was here, I was told he was at more risk under anesthesia being FeLV+ so I am hesitant. Asked me if he was an indoor cat I said yes, he said his urine must stink. Actually, I said, he is very good with the litterbox and I keep it clean so, no. Like as if that's more important than his risks under anesthesia. THEN he tells me, "He has a heart murmur". So i say out loud "Even MORE of a reason for me not to put him under!!!" Am I wrong not to neuter him? He's strictly indoor. Am I putting him at risk for more illness? Or am I playing it safe? So, now he has a heart murmur and I'm wondering why they didn't catch this OR the fact that they told me today that he has gingivitis, at his last visit a month and a half ago. They looked in his mouth and listened to his heart so what the heck? Dr says I need to have him get an echocardiogram. Said the murmur and the eye infection AND the gingivitis could be secondary to felv. I'm worried. But wowie is still happy and doing well, any words of advice/guidance? I have to start brushing his teeth too. Thanks Rebecca
Re: Heart Murmur
I know you meant INTUBATION- I've discovered that Persians (and other flat nosed kitties) need to be intubated. My lovely Persian kitten was not intubated and if she had been would be here today. I think it's a good idea for any flat-faced cat, or animal with weakness that might need that extra help with breathing when anesthetized.Thanks for the summary - that's helpful to me.GloriaOn Feb 1, 2006, at 2:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Insist on pre-sx IV valium, and use of isoflourane, (gas). with incubation
Re: Heart Murmur
Heart murmurs can develop at any stage of life, but, should be seriously monitored and treated if it continues to get worse. My Quintapus was diagnosed with a heart murmur only after he had a bit of a heart attack at age 2. I took him to a cariologist and it turned out he had cardiomyopathy (hardening of the heart). Dr. gave him meds and an estimate of approx. 3 yrs. of life left. Quintie just died last March at the ripe age of 12. With medication and proper monitoring heart murmurs can be controled. As for the neuturing...if Wowie doesn't go outside at all (nor try to get out), and all your other animals are fixedits strickly your decision. You know your cat best. Don't let someone else bully you into making a decision you aren't comfortable with...because if something should (not that it will) go wrong, you'll have difficulty forgiving yourself. FYI, Quint did have dentals during his life which require "putting him out" and he did fine, even with the heart murmur and renal failure. (It was a blood clot that finally did him in.)veggiepugs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well I took Wowie (Brooklyn) to the vet today for his eye infection, which I am now treating, and the dr said to me "He's not neutered!!" I said well, last I was here, I was told he was at more risk under anesthesia being FeLV+ so I am hesitant. Asked me if he was an indoor cat I said yes, he said his urine must stink. Actually, I said, he is very good with the litterbox and I keep it clean so, no. Like as if that's more important than his risks under anesthesia. THEN he tells me, "He has a heart murmur". So i say out loud "Even MORE of a reason for me not to put him under!!!" Am I wrong not to neuter him? He's strictly indoor. Am I putting him at risk for more illness? Or am I playing it safe? So, now he has a heart murmur and I'm wondering why they didn't catch this OR the fact that they told me today that he has gingivitis, at his last visit a month and a half ago. They looked in his mouth and listened to his heart so what the heck? Dr says I need to have him get an echocardiogram. Said the murmur and the eye infection AND the gingivitis could be secondary to felv. I'm worried. But wowie is still happy and doing well, any words of advice/guidance? I have to start brushing his teeth too.ThanksRebecca Bring words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: Heart Murmur
All this about heart murmurs has come at a good time for me. I have a 15-year-old kitty, feleuk negative, who I took to the vet because he looked, for lack of a better description, like he was pregnant and ready to pop. The vet diagnosed a heart murmur - I didn't know enough to ask many questions, but have learned more here. He is on .5mg Lasix twice a day. For the first couple of days he seemed smaller but after that, for the last two weeks, he has looked large again. I really took him in fearing FIP, but a tap of the fluid showed clear. My vet said it had to be a right heart problem rather than left (I think I have that straight) because if it were left heart he would be having trouble breathing. I don't know how to judge how uncomfortable he is at this point. He eats, cuddles up with me at night and purrs - no difference in behavior, just appearance. Guess I need to talk to the vet again about the fact that he doesn't seem to be staying "down" in size. I understand that the fluid was produced by his body to put pressure on his heart to keep it beating ok - I think that is right - I am totally new to heart problems. And that if the fluid were, say, drained off all at once, then he'd really have a problem. Any suggestions or input on how to proceed or things I need to ask. Thanks, all.tamara stickler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Heart murmurs can develop at any stage of life, but, should be seriously monitored and treated if it continues to get worse. My Quintapus was diagnosed with a heart murmur only after he had a bit of a heart attack at age 2. I took him to a cariologist and it turned out he had cardiomyopathy (hardening of the heart). Dr. gave him meds and an estimate of approx. 3 yrs. of life left. Quintie just died last March at the ripe age of 12. With medication and proper monitoring heart murmurs can be controled. As for the neuturing...if Wowie doesn't go outside at all (nor try to get out), and all your other animals are fixedits strickly your decision. You know your cat best. Don't let someone else bully you into making a decision you aren't comfortable with...because if something should (not that it will) go wrong, you'll have difficulty forgiving yourself. FYI, Quint did have dentals during his life which require "putting him out" and he did fine, even with the heart murmur and renal failure. (It was a blood clot that finally did him in.)veggiepugs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well I took Wowie (Brooklyn) to the vet today for his eye infection, which I am now treating, and the dr said to me "He's not neutered!!" I said well, last I was here, I was told he was at more risk under anesthesia being FeLV+ so I am hesitant. Asked me if he was an indoor cat I said yes, he said his urine must stink. Actually, I said, he is very good with the litterbox and I keep it clean so, no. Like as if that's more important than his risks under anesthesia. THEN he tells me, "He has a heart murmur". So i say out loud "Even MORE of a reason for me not to put him under!!!" Am I wrong not to neuter him? He's strictly indoor. Am I putting him at risk for more illness? Or am I playing it safe? So, now he has a heart murmur and I'm wondering why they didn't catch this OR the fact that they told me today that he has gingivitis, at his last visit a month and a half ago. They looked in his mouth and listened to his heart so what the heck? Dr says I need to have him get an echocardiogram. Said the murmur and the eye infection AND the gingivitis could be secondary to felv. I'm worried. But wowie is still happy and doing well, any words of advice/guidance? I have to start brushing his teeth too.ThanksRebecca Bring words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
RE: Heart Murmur
Rebecca – did you find out the grade level of his hear murmur – My Hannibal has a low grade heart murmur – level 2 – but I needed to have my vet pull his tooth (he couldn’t eat and was miserable) and he was anesthetized – and everything went ok – I agree with Tamara, it’s strictly your decision. I have one FeLk kitty, Ginger, I have not spayed yet because of the same concern. She is very fragile, and want to make sure when I spay her, I will run a blood work for her total body function, and make sure that she is not too anemic (which she has been) and all her organ is working fine. I did have my the other Felk kitty, Tsubomi spayed recently… mainly I thought she was pregnant,, but she is much stronger than Ginger too, she is completely healthy, her HCT was over 40 and I am very grateful of her strength. Rebecca, you really don’t need to decide whether you should neuter him or not right now.. it’s probably more questions of “when” – you can take your time and think about it,, and when you do it, make sure that he is in the perfect condition and make sure to run a blood work and and see if his heart murmur has gone down or vice versa – and ask your vet not to use anything but ISO gas anesthesia and no injectables at all – you would be amazed difference between recovery when you only use ISO gas.. and also injectable sedatives can cause more complications.. so I never use any injectable at all – and ask them to monitor his heart rate all the time, and have them give him fluid during surgery.. and ask your vet to do a surgery on his first and if he lets you wait, wait during the surgery, and as soon as he wakes up from anesthesia, bring him home so that he won’t have to be stressed in a cage at the vet…..again if and when you decide to neuter him..I by no means encouraging you to do so right now. Usually, vets are usually more optimistic when coming to neutering (since it’s very quick procedure), so if your vet is concerned, if I were you, I would probably wait for a few months to see how he does --- I lost my Suzi right after the spaying surgery.. all I know is that it was never losing her life, and that’s probably why I am so hesitant to do a surgery for my Ginger I knew I would have eventually done when Suzi was a bit older or stronger.. but I did not wait – so I am regretting it and will regret for the rest of my life. You sound like such a good mommy, Rebecca --- it’s not like he is pregnant (duhh..).. so really, there is no reason to rush.. dr. addie in University of Glasgow advised to me once, with any immune compromised animals, you will want to postpone neutering/spaying as long as possible.. not only due to a risk of anesthesia, stress can trigger the very illness that they may not showing any symptoms for and sometimes, we and other vets underestimate their emotional stress due to a surgery.. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara stickler Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:27 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Heart Murmur Heart murmurs can develop at any stage of life, but, should be seriously monitored and treated if it continues to get worse. My Quintapus was diagnosed with a heart murmur only after he had a bit of a heart attack at age 2. I took him to a cariologist and it turned out he had cardiomyopathy (hardening of the heart). Dr. gave him meds and an estimate of approx. 3 yrs. of life left. Quintie just died last March at the ripe age of 12. With medication and proper monitoring heart murmurs can be controled. As for the neuturing...if Wowie doesn't go outside at all (nor try to get out), and all your other animals are fixedits strickly your decision. You know your cat best. Don't let someone else bully you into making a decision you aren't comfortable with...because if something should (not that it will) go wrong, you'll have difficulty forgiving yourself. FYI, Quint did have dentals during his life which require "putting him out" and he did fine, even with the heart murmur and renal failure. (It was a blood clot that finally did him in.) veggiepugs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well I took Wowie (Brooklyn) to the vet today for his eye infection, which I am now treating, and the dr said to me "He's not neutered!!" I said well, last I was here, I was told he was at more risk under anesthesia being FeLV+ so I am hesitant. Asked me if he was an indoor cat I said yes, he said his urine must stink. Actually, I said, he is very good with the litterbox and I keep it clean so, no. Like as if that's more important than his risks under anesthesia. THEN he tells me, "He has a heart murmur". So i say out loud "Even MORE of a reason for me not to put him under!!!" Am I wrong not to neuter him? He's strictly indoor. Am I putting him at risk for more illness? Or am I playin
Re: Heart Murmur
I wish I had some advice for you. I'm sure others have given you some by now though. I don't know. I would want him neutered. It shouldn't take much sedation at all for a neuter. It's not 'major' surgery like a spay. As far as the heart murmur your vet should be able to tell you how 'bad' it is. I had a male older cat that needed a dental and my vet suggested he see a specialist for an ultrasound before surgery. I took him for the ultrasound and I think it was only around a hundred dollars. (I think. It's been a while.) It was totally non invasive and non stressful for him as well. (And this is a cat who won't even take a pill!) The vet said the murmur was nothing serious enough to worry about and he's had 2 dentals since. He is NOT felv positive, but he does have high blood pressure which is not treated because he won't take his medicine. He's also a senior. Hope this helps some. tveggiepugs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well I took Wowie (Brooklyn) to the vet today for his eye infection, which I am now treating, and the dr said to me "He's not neutered!!" I said well, last I was here, I was told he was at more risk under anesthesia being FeLV+ so I am hesitant. Asked me if he was an indoor cat I said yes, he said his urine must stink. Actually, I said, he is very good with the litterbox and I keep it clean so, no. Like as if that's more important than his risks under anesthesia. THEN he tells me, "He has a heart murmur". So i say out loud "Even MORE of a reason for me not to put him under!!!" Am I wrong not to neuter him? He's strictly indoor. Am I putting him at risk for more illness? Or am I playing it safe? So, now he has a heart murmur and I'm wondering why they didn't catch this OR the fact that they told me today that he has gingivitis, at his last visit a month and a half ago. They looked in his mouth and listened to his heart so what the heck? Dr says I need to have him get an echocardiogram. Said the murmur and the eye infection AND the gingivitis could be secondary to felv. I'm worried. But wowie is still happy and doing well, any words of advice/guidance? I have to start brushing his teeth too.ThanksRebecca
