Re: What is FIP?
happens a lot dear, with rescues, too. for reasons beyond my comprehension, some people just don't want to know look at how much info is out there about FIV and FeLV--most of it nowhere near as new as that re: FIP--why keep on on things when there's a simple, readily available treatment already? euthanasia solves everything. On 11/9/06, Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OMG, that's TERRIBLE! That shelter is going to be KILLING MOST of their cats! What a horrible policy! Why do you need ammo from the list? All any of the people at that shelter would have to do is look it up on any website about FIP, and they'd see how stupid that policy is. They need to be educated, true, but just about any website on FIP would be enough to kill that policy. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.htmlFind us on PETFINDER! http://petfinder.com/shelters/VT44.htmlNo virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.0/525 - Release Date: 11/9/2006-- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892
Re: What is FIP?
Too true. In the past year I have had a vet refuse to spay and FeLV+ cat and arescue person tell someone who took a cat in to be neutered, after the cat tested positive for FIV, that THEY would have put the cat down. (Fortunately I had already prepped the woman that the battered old tomcat she had been feeding might be FIV+ and not to worry if he was.) I have heard of one shelter that euthanizes cats with ringworm.TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:happens a lot dear, with rescues, too. for reasons beyond my comprehension, some people just don't want to know look at how much info is out there about FIV and FeLV--most of it nowhere near as new as that re: FIP--why keep on on things when there's a simple, readily available treatment already? euthanasia solves everything. On 11/9/06, Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OMG, that's TERRIBLE! That shelter is going to be KILLING MOST of their cats! What a horrible policy!Why do you need ammo from the list? All any of the people at that shelter would have to do is look it up on any website about FIP, and they'd see how stupid that policy is. They need to be educated, true, but just about any website on FIP would be enough to kill that policy. PhaewrynPlease adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.htmlFind us on PETFINDER! http://petfinder.com/shelters/VT44.htmlNo virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.0/525 - Release Date: 11/9/2006-- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892
RE: What is FIP?
I *love* grey tabbies. Just wanted to let you know. :) Leslie From: Gary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: What is FIP?Thanks Hideyo, I am glad your greys are healthy, I have a solid grey and a partially tabbied grey that are still healthy, just kind of always wondered about a color link since someone posted that question at the FIP list.My little grey and white Moxie IS a bit of a worry to me, she eats well, plays well, and has good blood work, but her growth is slow and she is much smaller than her brothers.Not sure if the personality link holds true here, my angel Ally was anything but shy.Sweet, yes, followed me like a puppy, but played very rough, my arms were so scratched up when she was alive people would stare at them and I'd have to explain it was from my kitten.It looked like I was cutting myself!!!Still miss having her launch herself at my face to bite my nose... Glad to here Little Pete is back!Beth
Re: What is FIP?
OMG, that's TERRIBLE! That shelter is going to be KILLING MOST of their cats! What a horrible policy! Why do you need ammo from the list? All any of the people at that shelter would have to do is look it up on any website about FIP, and they'd see how stupid that policy is. They need to be educated, true, but just about any website on FIP would be enough to kill that policy. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.htmlFind us on PETFINDER! http://petfinder.com/shelters/VT44.html No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.0/525 - Release Date: 11/9/2006
RE: What is FIP?
Thank you, Hideyo, I will do that. She is beautiful and spunky, everybody smiles at the sight of her... BethOriginal Message from Hideyo:Sorry, what I meant to say is that being a shy kitty at my house means that they do not take stress form other kitties very well.. as they get intimated by others,, but if you only have a couple of them at home,, shyness probably does not contribute to the factor, I think.. Beth, send her only positive thought.. dont doubt that she may have anything at all.. tell how beautiful and how healthy she is ALL the time its very important ..you need to believe and she needs to believe it and all the negative energy will run away from her body even if its there its too happy of a place to stay From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary MurphySent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:38 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: What is FIP?Thanks Hideyo, I am glad your greys are healthy, I have a solid grey and a partially tabbied grey that are still healthy, just kind of always wondered about a color link since someone posted that question at the FIP list. My little grey and white Moxie IS a bit of a worry to me, she eats well, plays well, and has good blood work, but her growth is slow and she is much smaller than her brothers. Not sure if the personality link holds true here, my angel Ally was anything but shy. Sweet, yes, followed me like a puppy, but played very rough, my arms were so scratched up when she was alive people would stare at them and I'd have to explain it was from my kitten. It looked like I was cutting myself!!! Still miss having her launch herself at my face to bite my nose...Glad to here Little Pete is back!Beth
RE: What is FIP?
Her soul must be as beautiful as her look and she is as healthy and happy she can ever possibly be..:) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Murphy Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 10:21 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: What is FIP? Thank you, Hideyo, I will do that. She is beautiful and spunky, everybody smiles at the sight of her... Beth Original Message from Hideyo: Sorry, what I meant to say is that being a shy kitty at my house means that they do not take stress form other kitties very well.. as they get intimated by others,, but if you only have a couple of them at home,, shyness probably does not contribute to the factor, I think.. Beth, send her only positive thought.. dont doubt that she may have anything at all.. tell how beautiful and how healthy she is ALL the time its very important ..you need to believe and she needs to believe it and all the negative energy will run away from her body even if its there its too happy of a place to stay From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Murphy Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:38 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: What is FIP? Thanks Hideyo, I am glad your greys are healthy, I have a solid grey and a partially tabbied grey that are still healthy, just kind of always wondered about a color link since someone posted that question at the FIP list. My little grey and white Moxie IS a bit of a worry to me, she eats well, plays well, and has good blood work, but her growth is slow and she is much smaller than her brothers. Not sure if the personality link holds true here, my angel Ally was anything but shy. Sweet, yes, followed me like a puppy, but played very rough, my arms were so scratched up when she was alive people would stare at them and I'd have to explain it was from my kitten. It looked like I was cutting myself!!! Still miss having her launch herself at my face to bite my nose... Glad to here Little Pete is back! Beth
Re: What is FIP?
You would think they would research it themselves, but for some reason she came to the list first asking for help. Isent some basicstuff and suggested some other links for more info, but was shocked to see that I was the only one that responded. Over here on the FeLV list, there would have been an uproar to such a post. As it turns out,some peopledid respond over there,either my computer or the server or something messed up andthe follow-up posts never made it to my mailbox.I was hoping that the personal stories ofpeoplewithhigh-titer experience would be persuasive, butshe hasn'twrittenagain,(unlessI'm still not getting messages properly) so who knows. Hope it helped, anyway... Beth OMG, that's TERRIBLE! That shelter is going to be KILLING MOST of their cats! What a horrible policy! Why do you need ammo from the list? All any of the people at that shelter would have to do is look it up on any website about FIP, and they'd see how stupid that policy is. They need to be educated, true, but just about any website on FIP would be enough to kill that policy. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost..htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.htmlFind us on PETFINDER! http://petfinder.com/shelters/VT44.html
RE: What is FIP?
Hi Kayte, I'll try to give a quick run down on FIP as I understand it. It begins with something called Feline Corona Virus (FCoV). This is a very contagious but normally harmless virus that many cats have. It is estimated that 85% or more of shelter cats and cattery cats have it. It lives in the intestines and normally causes no problems. Kitties that live by themselves or with just one or two others are likely to eventually clear this virus from their systems. In larger groups, as one cat clears it, another is in an active shedding phase and reinfecting the others, so it is much harder to eliminate. Not a big deal, as it is pretty much causes no symptoms in this form. The problem occurs when the virus mutates into FIP incertain individual cats. Nobody knows why this mutation takes place.There is speculation that stress and/or genetic susceptibilitymay play a role.Cheetahshave a very narrow gene pool and are highly susceptible toFIP.Overall,maybe about 5% (give or take)of FCoV infected cats go on to develop FIP. The mutation itself is not contagious, it must occur spontaneously within each cat. Once it does, the virus is able to move out of the gut. It attaches itself to macrophages and movesinto the rest of the body, causing the catsimmune system to over-react and attack itself, punching tiny holes through blood vessels and creating lesions on organs.Untreated, it is fatal. There is asmall Japanese study whichseemed to cure some cats with Feline Omega Interferon. One of the leading researchers (Dr. Addie) also stated that she hadI think a 25-30% cure rate with FOI.Some recent larger studies failed to show any life-saving benefit to FOI treatment, although I think they did see an initial lessening of the viral load. More research is needed. FIP is very difficult todiagnose (necropsy is the only sure bet),some treatable diseases can cause similar symptoms. Cornell University and Dr. Addie both have websites with much more information. If Crackers isyour only kitty and has no contact with other cats, your chances of ever needing to know any of this are about 0. And even if you eventually decide to adopt another from the shelter,the odds arein your favor that it will never be a problem. Well, so much for being quick, this is a bit of a book! Take care, Beth
Re: What is FIP?
Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understandingof FIP and this has been very helpful. elizabeth In a message dated 11/8/2006 8:48:16 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Kayte, I'll try to give a quick run down on FIP as I understand it. It begins with something called Feline Corona Virus (FCoV). This is a very contagious but normally harmless virus that many cats have. It is estimated that 85% or more of shelter cats and cattery cats have it. It lives in the intestines and normally causes no problems. Kitties that live by themselves or with just one or two others are likely to eventually clear this virus from their systems. In larger groups, as one cat clears it, another is in an active shedding phase and reinfecting the others, so it is much harder to eliminate. Not a big deal, as it is pretty much causes no symptoms in this form. The problem occurs when the virus mutates into FIP incertain individual cats. Nobody knows why this mutation takes place.There is speculation that stress and/or genetic susceptibilitymay play a role.Cheetahshave a very narrow gene pool and are highly susceptible toFIP.Overall,maybe about 5% (give or take)of FCoV infected cats go on to develop FIP. The mutation itself is not contagious, it must occur spontaneously within each cat. Once it does, the virus is able to move out of the gut. It attaches itself to macrophages and movesinto the rest of the body, causing the catsimmune system to over-react and attack itself, punching tiny holes through blood vessels and creating lesions on organs.Untreated, it is fatal. There is asmall Japanese study whichseemed to cure some cats with Feline Omega Interferon. One of the leading researchers (Dr. Addie) also stated that she hadI think a 25-30% cure rate with FOI.Some recent larger studies failed to show any life-saving benefit to FOI treatment, although I think they did see an initial lessening of the viral load. More research is needed. FIP is very difficult todiagnose (necropsy is the only sure bet),some treatable diseases can cause similar symptoms. Cornell University and Dr. Addie both have websites with much more information. If Crackers isyour only kitty and has no contact with other cats, your chances of ever needing to know any of this are about 0. And even if you eventually decide to adopt another from the shelter,the odds arein your favor that it will never be a problem. Well, so much for being quick, this is a bit of a book! Take care, Beth
Re: What is FIP?
Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solutionis supposedtokill it. I tossed thesoft toys andlitterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, Beth PS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understandingof FIP and this has been very helpful. elizabeth
Re: What is FIP?
i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solutionis supposedtokill it. I tossed thesoft toys andlitterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, Beth PS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understandingof FIP and this has been very helpful. elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892
Re: What is FIP?
Dr. Addie used to recommend 6 months before bringing in another cat or kitten.But, I believethere are many different strains of FCoV... so one strain is not necessarilylike another. Leslie =^..^= On 11/8/06, TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solutionis supposedtokill it. I tossed thesoft toys andlitterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, Beth PS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understandingof FIP and this has been very helpful. elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded.That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson
Re: What is FIP?
For rescue cats, those in the house or facility have all likely been exposed to the corona viruses anyhow. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one particular variety of corona virus has to be present and it mutates into a form that causes FIP, possibly due to stress and/or sanitation and/or genetic makeup. FIP itself isn't contagious, just the various varieties of the corona virus that initiate it.GloriaOn Nov 8, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Leslie Lawther wrote:Dr. Addie used to recommend 6 months before bringing in another cat or kitten. But, I believe there are many different strains of FCoV... so one strain is not necessarily like another. Leslie =^..^= On 11/8/06, TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solution is supposed to kill it. I tossed the soft toys and litterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, Beth PS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understanding of FIP and this has been very helpful. elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded. That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson
Re: What is FIP?
i don't think that they've identified WHICH variety of FCoV yet, have they??? if they have, why can't they culture for it/run a specific titre just on that strain, and save so many of us so much agony? (only partially kidding.) i'm still unclear on whether stress or genetics CAUSE the mutation--could the predisposition for mutation be there genetically and be triggered by stress? and i haven't seen any real evidence that sanitation or lack thereof is truly a causative agent--that it was ASSUMED to be, back when FIP was thought to be contagious i know that dr addie talks a lot about that, but not so much about the genetic info that's coming out--and in a breeding situation, or multi-cat one, if FIP is going through the place, sanitation is a good place to start--but in a cattery, of course, or anywhere else with family groups, the genetic component could well be the most important element On 11/8/06, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For rescue cats, those in the house or facility have all likely been exposed to the corona viruses anyhow. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one particular variety of corona virus has to be present and it mutates into a form that causes FIP, possibly due to stress and/or sanitation and/or genetic makeup. FIP itself isn't contagious, just the various varieties of the corona virus that initiate it. Gloria On Nov 8, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Leslie Lawther wrote: Dr. Addie used to recommend 6 months before bringing in another cat or kitten.But, I believethere are many different strains of FCoV... so one strain is not necessarilylike another. Leslie =^..^= On 11/8/06, TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solutionis supposedtokill it. I tossed thesoft toys andlitterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, Beth PS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understandingof FIP and this has been very helpful. elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded.That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson-- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892
Re: What is FIP?
I don't think it's so much one variety of corona that will always mutate. A cat has to have a genetic predisposition to FIP. If that predisposition is present then I suspect many strains of corona have the potential to mutate under certain circumstances.Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For rescue cats, those in the house or facility have all likely been exposed to the corona viruses anyhow. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one particular variety of corona virus has to be present and it mutates into a form that causes FIP, possibly due to stress and/or sanitation and/or genetic makeup. FIP itself isn't contagious, just the various varieties of the corona virus that initiate it.GloriaOn Nov 8, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Leslie Lawther wrote:Dr. Addie used to recommend 6 months before bringing in another cat or kitten.But, I believethere are many different strains of FCoV... so one strain is not necessarilylike another. Leslie =^..^= On 11/8/06, TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solutionis supposedtokill it. I tossed thesoft toys andlitterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, BethPS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks!Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understandingof FIP and this has been very helpful.elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded.That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson
Re: What is FIP?
that's what i thought. wouldn't it be WONDERFUL is we could screen for a single, simple culprit??? On 11/8/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think it's so much one variety of corona that will always mutate. A cat has to have a genetic predisposition to FIP. If that predisposition is present then I suspect many strains of corona have the potential to mutate under certain circumstances. Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For rescue cats, those in the house or facility have all likely been exposed to the corona viruses anyhow. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one particular variety of corona virus has to be present and it mutates into a form that causes FIP, possibly due to stress and/or sanitation and/or genetic makeup. FIP itself isn't contagious, just the various varieties of the corona virus that initiate it. Gloria On Nov 8, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Leslie Lawther wrote: Dr. Addie used to recommend 6 months before bringing in another cat or kitten.But, I believethere are many different strains of FCoV... so one strain is not necessarilylike another. Leslie =^..^= On 11/8/06, TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solutionis supposedtokill it. I tossed thesoft toys andlitterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, Beth PS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understandingof FIP and this has been very helpful. elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded.That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson-- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892
Re: What is FIP?
I think you're right, they haven't narrowed it down to one variety yet. I also read where it's not any more common in pure-breds than in alley cats.GloriaOn Nov 8, 2006, at 2:16 PM, TenHouseCats wrote:i don't think that they've identified WHICH variety of FCoV yet, have they??? if they have, why can't they culture for it/run a specific titre just on that strain, and save so many of us so much agony? (only partially kidding.) i'm still unclear on whether stress or genetics CAUSE the mutation--could the predisposition for mutation be there genetically and be triggered by stress? and i haven't seen any real evidence that sanitation or lack thereof is truly a causative agent--that it was ASSUMED to be, back when FIP was thought to be contagious i know that dr addie talks a lot about that, but not so much about the genetic info that's coming out--and in a breeding situation, or multi-cat one, if FIP is going through the place, sanitation is a good place to start--but in a cattery, of course, or anywhere else with family groups, the genetic component could well be the most important element On 11/8/06, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For rescue cats, those in the house or facility have all likely been exposed to the corona viruses anyhow. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one particular variety of corona virus has to be present and it mutates into a form that causes FIP, possibly due to stress and/or sanitation and/or genetic makeup. FIP itself isn't contagious, just the various varieties of the corona virus that initiate it. Gloria On Nov 8, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Leslie Lawther wrote: Dr. Addie used to recommend 6 months before bringing in another cat or kitten. But, I believe there are many different strains of FCoV... so one strain is not necessarily like another. Leslie =^..^= On 11/8/06, TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solution is supposed to kill it. I tossed the soft toys and litterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, Beth PS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understanding of FIP and this has been very helpful. elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded. That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892
Re: What is FIP?
quite possibly the latter will be proved true--but there's far more populations of captive purebreds for it to show up in and track again, why it was assumed for so long to be infectious when it'd show up in a bloodline On 11/8/06, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you're right, they haven't narrowed it down to one variety yet. I also read where it's not any more common in pure-breds than in alley cats. Gloria On Nov 8, 2006, at 2:16 PM, TenHouseCats wrote: i don't think that they've identified WHICH variety of FCoV yet, have they??? if they have, why can't they culture for it/run a specific titre just on that strain, and save so many of us so much agony? (only partially kidding.) i'm still unclear on whether stress or genetics CAUSE the mutation--could the predisposition for mutation be there genetically and be triggered by stress? and i haven't seen any real evidence that sanitation or lack thereof is truly a causative agent--that it was ASSUMED to be, back when FIP was thought to be contagious i know that dr addie talks a lot about that, but not so much about the genetic info that's coming out--and in a breeding situation, or multi-cat one, if FIP is going through the place, sanitation is a good place to start--but in a cattery, of course, or anywhere else with family groups, the genetic component could well be the most important element On 11/8/06, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For rescue cats, those in the house or facility have all likely been exposed to the corona viruses anyhow. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one particular variety of corona virus has to be present and it mutates into a form that causes FIP, possibly due to stress and/or sanitation and/or genetic makeup. FIP itself isn't contagious, just the various varieties of the corona virus that initiate it. Gloria On Nov 8, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Leslie Lawther wrote: Dr. Addie used to recommend 6 months before bringing in another cat or kitten.But, I believethere are many different strains of FCoV... so one strain is not necessarilylike another. Leslie =^..^= On 11/8/06, TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solutionis supposedtokill it. I tossed thesoft toys andlitterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, Beth PS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understandingof FIP and this has been very helpful. elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded.That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson-- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892
Re: What is FIP?
We know so little about FIP. At one time it was thought that FIP was related to FeLV because FeLV+ cats do seem more susceptible. Kittens are also more susceptible. All I can report is what I've read of current theories and research. We still KNOW so little.TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: that's what i thought. wouldn't it be WONDERFUL is we could screen for a single, simple culprit??? On 11/8/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think it's so much one variety of corona that will always mutate. A cat has to have a genetic predisposition to FIP. If that predisposition is present then I suspect many strains of corona have the potential to mutate under certain circumstances. Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For rescue cats, those in the house or facility have all likely been exposed to the corona viruses anyhow. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one particular variety of corona virus has to be present and it mutates into a form that causes FIP, possibly due to stress and/or sanitation and/or genetic makeup. FIP itself isn't contagious, just the various varieties of the corona virus that initiate it. Gloria On Nov 8, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Leslie Lawther wrote:Dr. Addie used to recommend 6 months before bringing in another cat or kitten.But, I believethere are many different strains of FCoV... so one strain is not necessarilylike another. Leslie =^..^= On 11/8/06, TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solutionis supposedtokill it. I tossed thesoft toys andlitterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, BethPS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks!Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understandingof FIP and this has been very helpful.elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded.That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson-- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892
Re: What is FIP?
the saddest part is that those of us on lists like this often know far more than too many vets do, and certainly more than shelters and rescues do. On 11/8/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We know so little about FIP. At one time it was thought that FIP was related to FeLV because FeLV+ cats do seem more susceptible. Kittens are also more susceptible. All I can report is what I've read of current theories and research. We still KNOW so little. TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: that's what i thought. wouldn't it be WONDERFUL is we could screen for a single, simple culprit??? On 11/8/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think it's so much one variety of corona that will always mutate. A cat has to have a genetic predisposition to FIP. If that predisposition is present then I suspect many strains of corona have the potential to mutate under certain circumstances. Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For rescue cats, those in the house or facility have all likely been exposed to the corona viruses anyhow. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one particular variety of corona virus has to be present and it mutates into a form that causes FIP, possibly due to stress and/or sanitation and/or genetic makeup. FIP itself isn't contagious, just the various varieties of the corona virus that initiate it. Gloria On Nov 8, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Leslie Lawther wrote: Dr. Addie used to recommend 6 months before bringing in another cat or kitten.But, I believethere are many different strains of FCoV... so one strain is not necessarilylike another. Leslie =^..^= On 11/8/06, TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solutionis supposedtokill it. I tossed thesoft toys andlitterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, Beth PS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understandingof FIP and this has been very helpful. elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded.That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson-- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892
Re: What is FIP?
We've learned it the hard wayTenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the saddest part is that those of us on lists like this often know far more than too many vets do, and certainly more than shelters and rescues do. On 11/8/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We know so little about FIP. At one time it was thought that FIP was related to FeLV because FeLV+ cats do seem more susceptible. Kittens are also more susceptible. All I can report is what I've read of current theories and research. We still KNOW so little. TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: that's what i thought. wouldn't it be WONDERFUL is we could screen for a single, simple culprit??? On 11/8/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think it's so much one variety of corona that will always mutate. A cat has to have a genetic predisposition to FIP. If that predisposition is present then I suspect many strains of corona have the potential to mutate under certain circumstances. Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For rescue cats, those in the house or facility have all likely been exposed to the corona viruses anyhow. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one particular variety of corona virus has to be present and it mutates into a form that causes FIP, possibly due to stress and/or sanitation and/or genetic makeup. FIP itself isn't contagious, just the various varieties of the corona virus that initiate it. GloriaOn Nov 8, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Leslie Lawther wrote:Dr. Addie used to recommend 6 months before bringing in another cat or kitten.But, I believethere are many different strains of FCoV... so one strain is not necessarilylike another. Leslie =^..^= On 11/8/06, TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solutionis supposedtokill it. I tossed thesoft toys andlitterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, BethPS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks!Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understandingof FIP and this has been very helpful.elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded.That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson-- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892
Re: What is FIP?
I don't know if they can still be shedding FCoV while in the throes of FIP or not. . . I do think that I've read that titre tests measurethe antibodies present, not the virus itself, soa veryimmune compromised cat may haveexhausted their ability to produce antibodies and test negativeeven whilequite infected. I think this is what happened with my Ally,she had a series of smaller illnessesbecause of her weakened immune system, by the time things got worse andwe suspected FIP, I think she had used up most of her limited ability to produce antibodies and thus onlyhad a titre of 1:100.I've read that FCoVis supposed to be so contagious,hard to control even in sterile lab settings,but her littermates were with her for the first six weeks of their lives and they all (as well as big sister Blue)tested negative at 1:100, sowho knows... Beth i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue
Re: What is FIP?
Back to the genetic question for a moment, MC or anyone else involved with large rescues, have you noticed more grey kitties getting this than others? Someone suggested this might be the case on the FIP list, my Ally was a grey/tan tabby, and I have since noticed that there seem to be more greys lost on the list than anything else. I haven't seen this mentioned by any of the researchers,but if true it wouldfurther back up a genetic link. Also, has anyone noticed tiny littleblack pin-pricks ofdirt in the ears of a cat just before it comes down with FIP? That was one of the first things I saw with Ally, her right ear had about 15-20 teensy-tiny black dots, Ibrushed them off with my finger and watched for their return, suspecting ear mites.The dots didn't come back, but a day or two later her left ear becamebright red, vet said no ear mites, but a "swimmer's ear". Then the downhill slide began. Looking back, I wonder if they were dots of dried blood,perhaps caused by the FIP as it began punching holes in her capillaries?Icheckears a lot now. Beth I think you're right, they haven't narrowed it down to one variety yet. I also read where it's not any more common in pure-breds than in alley cats. Gloria On Nov 8, 2006, at 2:16 PM, TenHouseCats wrote: i don't think that they've identified WHICH variety of FCoV yet, have they??? if they have, why can't they culture for it/run a specific titre just on that strain, and save so many of us so much agony? (only partially kidding.) i'm still unclear on whether stress or genetics CAUSE the mutation--could the predisposition for mutation be there genetically and be triggered by stress? and i haven't seen any real evidence that sanitation or lack thereof is truly a causative agent--that it was ASSUMED to be, back when FIP was thought to be contagious i know that dr addie talks a lot about that, but not so much about the genetic info that's coming out--and in a breeding situation, or multi-cat one, if FIP is going through the place, sanitation is a good place to start--but in a cattery, of course, or anywhere else with family groups, the genetic component could well be the most important element On 11/8/06, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For rescue cats, those in the house or facility have all likely been exposed to the corona viruses anyhow. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one particular variety of corona virus has to be present and it mutates into a form that causes FIP, possibly due to stress and/or sanitation and/or genetic makeup. FIP itself isn't contagious, just the various varieties of the corona virus that initiate it. Gloria On Nov 8, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Leslie Lawther wrote: Dr. Addie used to recommend 6 months before bringing in another cat or kitten.But, I believethere are many different strains of FCoV... so one strain is not necessarilylike another. Leslie =^..^= On 11/8/06, TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solutionis supposedtokill it. I tossed thesoft toys andlitterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, Beth PS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understandingof FIP and this has been very helpful. elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 -- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded.That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson-- Spay
Re: What is FIP?
My Mishka was a black and white 1 year old girl (and gorgeous). Gloria At 07:33 PM 11/8/2006, you wrote: Back to the genetic question for a moment, MC or anyone else involved with large rescues, have you noticed more grey kitties getting this than others? Someone suggested this might be the case on the FIP list, my Ally was a grey/tan tabby, and I have since noticed that there seem to be more greys lost on the list than anything else. I haven't seen this mentioned by any of the researchers, but if true it would further back up a genetic link. Also, has anyone noticed tiny little black pin-pricks of dirt in the ears of a cat just before it comes down with FIP? That was one of the first things I saw with Ally, her right ear had about 15-20 teensy-tiny black dots, I brushed them off with my finger and watched for their return, suspecting ear mites. The dots didn't come back, but a day or two later her left ear became bright red, vet said no ear mites, but a swimmer's ear. Then the downhill slide began. Looking back, I wonder if they were dots of dried blood, perhaps caused by the FIP as it began punching holes in her capillaries? I check ears a lot now. Beth I think you're right, they haven't narrowed it down to one variety yet. I also read where it's not any more common in pure-breds than in alley cats. Gloria On Nov 8, 2006, at 2:16 PM, TenHouseCats wrote: i don't think that they've identified WHICH variety of FCoV yet, have they??? if they have, why can't they culture for it/run a specific titre just on that strain, and save so many of us so much agony? (only partially kidding.) i'm still unclear on whether stress or genetics CAUSE the mutation--could the predisposition for mutation be there genetically and be triggered by stress? and i haven't seen any real evidence that sanitation or lack thereof is truly a causative agent--that it was ASSUMED to be, back when FIP was thought to be contagious i know that dr addie talks a lot about that, but not so much about the genetic info that's coming out--and in a breeding situation, or multi-cat one, if FIP is going through the place, sanitation is a good place to start--but in a cattery, of course, or anywhere else with family groups, the genetic component could well be the most important element On 11/8/06, Gloria Lane mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For rescue cats, those in the house or facility have all likely been exposed to the corona viruses anyhow. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one particular variety of corona virus has to be present and it mutates into a form that causes FIP, possibly due to stress and/or sanitation and/or genetic makeup. FIP itself isn't contagious, just the various varieties of the corona virus that initiate it. Gloria On Nov 8, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Leslie Lawther wrote: Dr. Addie used to recommend 6 months before bringing in another cat or kitten. But, I believe there are many different strains of FCoV... so one strain is not necessarily like another. Leslie =^..^= On 11/8/06, TenHouseCats mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer-lived virus. Unlike FeLV, it can remain alive outside of a cat's body for at least many weeks. I've read that a new kitten/cat should not be aquired for about 7 weeks after an FIP death, just in case it is was particularly virulent strain of FCoV. Wiping down hard surfaces with a bleach solution is supposed to kill it. I tossed the soft toys and litterpan. My Ally's room was in desperate need of work, when she passed I washed everything down, painted walls,ceiling, trim, and put in a new laminate floor, and still waited 2 months to let the others in. Probably silly, as I likely tracked the virus around the rest of the house while I was caring for her anyway... Head-butts to Antonio, Beth PS: I would love to see that picture of the opossums if you get a chance. Email is mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Beth, Thank you for this explanation. I didn't have a good understanding of FIP and this has been very helpful. elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM /
Re: What is FIP?
My understanding is that it measures antibodies to any corona virus. At 07:12 PM 11/8/2006, you wrote: ... . . I do think that I've read that titre tests measure the antibodies present, not the virus itself, so a very immune compromised cat may have exhausted their ability to produce antibodies and test negative even while quite infected. I think this is what happened with my Ally, she had a series of smaller illnesses because of her weakened immune system, by the time things got worse and we suspected FIP, I think she had used up most of her limited ability to produce antibodies and thus only had a titre of 1:100. I've read that FCoV is supposed to be so contagious, hard to control even in sterile lab settings, but her littermates were with her for the first six weeks of their lives and they all (as well as big sister Blue) tested negative at 1:100, so who knows... Beth i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue
RE: What is FIP?
I really don't think it has anything to do with suscebtability ---Dharma was a beautiful calico girl, Naomi was a beautiful torti, Peter was a beautiful orange tabby, and Olive was a beautiful black and white tuxedo girl... A brother of Dharma and Naomi who is very healthy is grey tabby and he is just gorgeous.. :) As you know I have every single kind and color in my house.. and mostly, I have grey tabbies and they are all healthy!! It really has something to do with the fact that their personality, meaning that they are more sensitive and stressed than others due to the personality according to my experience.. all of the kitties I lost have been in my house less than a year (meaning they are more stressed due to a new environment) and they are less than 3 years old and all of their personalities are very sweet, and shy - not outgoing and bold type --if you know what I mean.. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of G. Lane Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:59 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: What is FIP? My Mishka was a black and white 1 year old girl (and gorgeous). Gloria At 07:33 PM 11/8/2006, you wrote: Back to the genetic question for a moment, MC or anyone else involved with large rescues, have you noticed more grey kitties getting this than others? Someone suggested this might be the case on the FIP list, my Ally was a grey/tan tabby, and I have since noticed that there seem to be more greys lost on the list than anything else. I haven't seen this mentioned by any of the researchers, but if true it would further back up a genetic link. Also, has anyone noticed tiny little black pin-pricks of dirt in the ears of a cat just before it comes down with FIP? That was one of the first things I saw with Ally, her right ear had about 15-20 teensy-tiny black dots, I brushed them off with my finger and watched for their return, suspecting ear mites. The dots didn't come back, but a day or two later her left ear became bright red, vet said no ear mites, but a swimmer's ear. Then the downhill slide began. Looking back, I wonder if they were dots of dried blood, perhaps caused by the FIP as it began punching holes in her capillaries? I check ears a lot now. Beth I think you're right, they haven't narrowed it down to one variety yet. I also read where it's not any more common in pure-breds than in alley cats. Gloria On Nov 8, 2006, at 2:16 PM, TenHouseCats wrote: i don't think that they've identified WHICH variety of FCoV yet, have they??? if they have, why can't they culture for it/run a specific titre just on that strain, and save so many of us so much agony? (only partially kidding.) i'm still unclear on whether stress or genetics CAUSE the mutation--could the predisposition for mutation be there genetically and be triggered by stress? and i haven't seen any real evidence that sanitation or lack thereof is truly a causative agent--that it was ASSUMED to be, back when FIP was thought to be contagious i know that dr addie talks a lot about that, but not so much about the genetic info that's coming out--and in a breeding situation, or multi-cat one, if FIP is going through the place, sanitation is a good place to start--but in a cattery, of course, or anywhere else with family groups, the genetic component could well be the most important element On 11/8/06, Gloria Lane mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For rescue cats, those in the house or facility have all likely been exposed to the corona viruses anyhow. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one particular variety of corona virus has to be present and it mutates into a form that causes FIP, possibly due to stress and/or sanitation and/or genetic makeup. FIP itself isn't contagious, just the various varieties of the corona virus that initiate it. Gloria On Nov 8, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Leslie Lawther wrote: Dr. Addie used to recommend 6 months before bringing in another cat or kitten. But, I believe there are many different strains of FCoV... so one strain is not necessarily like another. Leslie =^..^= On 11/8/06, TenHouseCats mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've also seen that 3 weeks is a long enough time for not bringing in a cat, and that if the cat came from a shelter or any other multi-cat environment, there's no point in isolating since it's probably only been exposed before it came to you. i haven't actually seen info re: whether the FCoV is actually even still present in an FIP cat--since there are lots of cases where cats presumed to have FIP show no abnormal titre levels. so even tho FCoV may be a longer-lived virus, i'm not sure that's the issue On 11/8/06, Gary Murphy mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elizabeth, glad it was helpful. One thing I forgot to mention is that FCoV is a longer
Re: What is FIP?
Yup, my understanding as well. Pretty darn useless test. Dangerous even. Somebody wrote in today to the FIP list that theshelter theyworkat has almost 100 cats and has decided to euthanize any with a titre of 1:1600 or above.Shedoesn't know much about the disease, but sounds like she wants someinformation/ammunition to convince the shelternot to do this.If anyone here has any suggestions for her and isn'ta member of the FIP list, please send them to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I'll post them to heron [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Thanks, Beth Original message: My understanding is that it measures antibodies to any corona virus.
Re: What is FIP?
Thanks for writing back, I'm so sorry about Mishka, I love black white kitties.Wishwe had the resources here to set up a searchable database onthe list kitties. Ibelong to a fertility tempingsite (fertilityfriend.com) thatallows you to put your temperature chartsanonymously into a big file with everyone else's. Then you can enter search characteristics and find charts that match. Want to see how many women over 41 with endometriosis have hada successful IVF cycle, type it in. You can check drug protocols and all kinds of stuff, quickly and easily. Wouldn't something similar besogood for FIP info,(breed, color,symptoms, treatment protocol, disease progression, lifespan, etc.), Maybe even better for FeLV, where there ismore hope. Thanks again, Beth
RE: What is FIP?
One of the things that Dr. Addie strongly suggested that I do a couple of years ago was that wait to spay/neuter any kitties as long as you can wait so that they have stronger immune system I have a few boys who are less than or a little over a year old and decide to postpone surgeries for a while as I just cannot to let them more susceptible to the disease right now. Another thing that she suggest, and which I do is to ask the vet to do the surgery of your kitty as soon as you bring them in and wait until its done and bring them home right away.. so that they are not stressed out at the clinic all day and have them not use any sedatives like kedamine or any pain killer bugt have them use ISO the bodies recover much faster than way.. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Murphy Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:11 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: What is FIP? Thanks for writing back, I'm so sorry about Mishka, I love black white kitties.Wishwe had the resources here to set up a searchable database onthe list kitties. Ibelong to a fertility tempingsite (fertilityfriend.com) thatallows you to put your temperature chartsanonymously into a big file with everyone else's. Then you can enter search characteristics and find charts that match. Want to see how many women over 41 with endometriosis have hada successful IVF cycle, type it in. You can check drug protocols and all kinds of stuff, quickly and easily. Wouldn't something similar besogood for FIP info,(breed, color,symptoms, treatment protocol, disease progression, lifespan, etc.), Maybe even better for FeLV, where there ismore hope. Thanks again, Beth
RE: What is FIP?
Thats crazy I am on the FIP list but please forward this anyway --- titer is uselss Naomis titer was only 1:400 it does not mean anything.. I know a bunch of kitties who titer turned out to be very small but developed FIP anyway,, I have a couple of dozens of kitties whose titer if over 1:1600 and they are all healthy.. that is a crime of ignorance --- they need to be educated what can we do to stop --- may be sending out petition or some sort..I will not be able to stand this From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Murphy Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 7:48 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: What is FIP? Yup, my understanding as well. Pretty darn useless test. Dangerous even. Somebody wrote in today to the FIP list that theshelter theyworkat has almost 100 cats and has decided to euthanize any with a titre of 1:1600 or above.Shedoesn't know much about the disease, but sounds like she wants someinformation/ammunition to convince the shelternot to do this.If anyone here has any suggestions for her and isn'ta member of the FIP list, please send them to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I'll post them to heron [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Thanks, Beth Original message: My understanding is that it measures antibodies to any corona virus.
RE: What is FIP?
Thanks Hideyo, I am glad your greys are healthy, I have a solid grey and a partially tabbied grey that are still healthy, just kind of always wondered about a color link since someone posted that question at the FIP list. My littlegrey and white MoxieISa bit of a worry to me, she eats well, plays well, and has good blood work, buther growthis slow and she is much smaller than her brothers.Not sureif the personality link holds true here, my angelAlly was anything but shy. Sweet, yes, followed me like a puppy, but played very rough, my arms were so scratched up when she was alivepeople would stare at them and I'd have to explainit wasfrom my kitten. It looked like I was cutting myself!!! Still miss having her launch herself at my face to bite my nose... Glad to hereLittlePete is back! Beth Original message: I really don't think it has anything to do with suscebtability ---Dharma was a beautiful calico girl, Naomi was a beautiful torti, Peter was a beautiful orange tabby, and Olive was a beautiful black and white tuxedo girl... A brother of Dharma and Naomi who is very healthy is grey tabby and he is just gorgeous.. :) As you know I have every single kind and color in my house.. and mostly, I have grey tabbies and they are all healthy!! It really has something to do with the fact that their personality, meaning that they are more sensitive and stressed than others due to the personality according to my experience.. all of the kitties I lost have been in my house less than a year (meaning they are more stressed due to a new environment) and they are less than 3 years old and all of their personalities are very sweet, and shy - not outgoing and bold type --if you know what I mean..
RE: What is FIP?
Sorry, what I meant to say is that being a shy kitty at my house means that they do not take stress form other kitties very well.. as they get intimated by others,, but if you only have a couple of them at home,, shyness probably does not contribute to the factor, I think.. Beth, send her only positive thought.. dont doubt that she may have anything at all.. tell how beautiful and how healthy she is ALL the time its very important ..you need to believe and she needs to believe it and all the negative energy will run away from her body even if its there its too happy of a place to stay From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Murphy Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:38 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: What is FIP? Thanks Hideyo, I am glad your greys are healthy, I have a solid grey and a partially tabbied grey that are still healthy, just kind of always wondered about a color link since someone posted that question at the FIP list. My littlegrey and white MoxieISa bit of a worry to me, she eats well, plays well, and has good blood work, buther growthis slow and she is much smaller than her brothers.Not sureif the personality link holds true here, my angelAlly was anything but shy. Sweet, yes, followed me like a puppy, but played very rough, my arms were so scratched up when she was alivepeople would stare at them and I'd have to explainit wasfrom my kitten. It looked like I was cutting myself!!! Still miss having her launch herself at my face to bite my nose... Glad to hereLittlePete is back! Beth Original message: I really don't think it has anything to do with suscebtability ---Dharma was a beautiful calico girl, Naomi was a beautiful torti, Peter was a beautiful orange tabby, and Olive was a beautiful black and white tuxedo girl... A brother of Dharma and Naomi who is very healthy is grey tabby and he is just gorgeous.. :) As you know I have every single kind and color in my house.. and mostly, I have grey tabbies and they are all healthy!! It really has something to do with the fact that their personality, meaning that they are more sensitive and stressed than others due to the personality according to my experience.. all of the kitties I lost have been in my house less than a year (meaning they are more stressed due to a new environment) and they are less than 3 years old and all of their personalities are very sweet, and shy - not outgoing and bold type --if you know what I mean..
