Re: [Finale] Re: 2/10 time signature
Given all this argument back and forth about 2/10 time sigs etc, it would seem an argument against using it. I like the "new E = old " that was previously mentioned: obvious, concise, and the musicians will not spend hours arguing about it during rehearsal. Whatever. Can't stop progress, I suppose. By the way, I also think that the ability to make the time sig be any character string in any font is a good idea too. - Bruce K. H. Kau[EMAIL PROTECTED] Kane'ohe, Hawai'i, USA "Second star to the right, and straight on 'til morning ..." ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Copying from doc to doc
Does anyone know the best way to copy optimized systems from one document to another? Is there anyway to copy the optimization? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] FinMac 2004c - Taking too long to allocate instruments
I have updated from Finale 2002 to 2004c on my desktop machine (G4/400). When I open a new document it sits for 4-6 minutes (!) while displaying this message: "Finale Is Allocating Instruments for internal speaker playback" Then everytime I press the play button it sits for 1:30 while displaying the same message Can I speed this up? Its crazy. -- Rocky Road - in Oz "Fleeing from the Cylon tyranny, the last Battlestar, Galactica, leads a ragtag, fugitive fleet, on a lonely quest, for a shining planet known as Earth." ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2/10 time signature
Aaron Sherber wrote: At 09:15 PM 07/13/2004, Mark D Lew wrote: >> And from what I know of math and music, that doesn't seem right to me. > >It's not supposed to match normal math. A quarter note is 1/4 of a whole note. Isn't a sixth note 1/6 of a whole note? And if not, why not? (I'm not being facetious -- I don't have much experience with these non-standard time sigs.) Aaron. I would add to Aaron's "if not why not" question, "then why is it called 1/6 note?" The unclear use of terminology is one of the biggest arguments against using it -- if not all people use it the same way, it can hardly be called a convention or a standard, can it? And if the meaning isn't clear, should a copy of Henry Cowell's book be included at no charge with the purchase of any music containing such time signatures? Witness Christopher BJ Smith's apparent misunderstanding of it (or maybe he's right and the others are wrong). Maybe Henry Cowell wrote about this stuff in 1919, but 85 years later, it's still not clear. Perhaps he should have written a follow-up book "Complex and Unusual Time Signatures For Dummies." -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2/10 time signature
Aaron Sherber wrote: At 10:43 PM 07/13/2004, Christopher BJ Smith wrote: >I think Rob's math was a little off. A sixth note >is equal to one quarter in a quarter-note triplet. A twelfth note is >one eighth-note triplet. Ah, yes, that makes more sense. Thanks. And in that case, a simple metric change to 12/4 with the concurrent indication of change in tempo with metronome indication would accomplish the same result with no discussion of what it's supposed to mean and dragging out dusty tomes explaining what is meant. For amateur groups where rehearsals don't cost any money perhaps unclear indications are fine, but I couldn't imagine a union gig where this is all hashed out in rehearsal. I can imagine the language which would be used to describe the composer, but I couldn't imagine how expensive such a discussion would be. But these are all reasons why I wouldn't use such signatures. I really don't have a problem with others using them, if that's what they think is the only way to make their musical meaning clear. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: 2/10 time signature
shirling & neueweise wrote: [snip] (*) indian musicians would never complain about having to perform such "irrational" values, would not even consider them irrational, having been trained in a variety of rhythmic contexts right from their earliest lessons and musical experiences, while the western-trained musician is taught only binary values or possibilities in virtually all musical realms. up until the early 1950's, the western european music tradition (of which the north american is descendant and still linked) was one of the most rhythmically-impoverished musical traditions in the world. That pretty much nails it on the head -- what a person is trained to from the beginning. Time to start teaching beginners in a different manner. Good luck in a society where Dead European White Males of 200-250 years ago are still looked on as the epitome of musical composition. But do Indian musicians use printed music with time signatures? I was under the impression that time signatures were not part of their music. I was under the impression that they learned the rhythms of the various ragas in groups of equal beats (3 + 5 + 4 + 5 or some such) and that it wasn't written down. The only book I currently have on ragas is without time signatures but it is mostly the various scales which would be used to improvise on the various rhythmic groupings. I can't find the one book I've seen concerning the rhythmic groupings but I don't seem to recall seeing a time signature in that book. That is very different from trying to communicate music without it's being heard first, such as these "irrational" time signatures do. Using Western notation to communicate music which is best communicated in non-printed ways (often so much easier when the conductor says "ignore the printed music, it goes like this" and then sings it). -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2/10 time signature
There was a wonderful example of "modern notatation" in a journal a couple of years ago. Just about every perversion the avant garde could imagine was featured in this one tiny excerpt. When (if??) one took the trouble to work it all out, it was actually the melody to "God Save the Queen (Don't you call the same tune "America"?) Reminds me of the day a teacher in one my schools approached me for advice. This was not long after the delivery of the first batch of computers. She had spent all morning trying to draw something on the computer to display to the kids, but without success. She asked if I knew the best way to do it. I took a piece of chalk and drew it on the blackboard. All the best, Lawrence "þaes ofereode - þisses swa maeg"http://lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2/10 time signature
I've been quietly watching this thread on unusual time signatures, and learning from the collective wisdom. The piece by Thomas Ades that was referred to before, might it have been "Living Toys"? I have seen the score for this work and in it, I was educated as to the meaning of 11/5 time. Apparently, according to a radio producer who was at the rehearsals, there was no problem whatsoever in interpreting it. And sometimes the more unusual time signature makes more clear the composer's intended feel. Just my $.02 worth *howls* Taris At 07:54 AM 7/14/2004, you wrote: Aaron Sherber wrote: At 10:43 PM 07/13/2004, Christopher BJ Smith wrote: >I think Rob's math was a little off. A sixth note >is equal to one quarter in a quarter-note triplet. A twelfth note is >one eighth-note triplet. Ah, yes, that makes more sense. Thanks. And in that case, a simple metric change to 12/4 with the concurrent indication of change in tempo with metronome indication would accomplish the same result with no discussion of what it's supposed to mean and dragging out dusty tomes explaining what is meant. For amateur groups where rehearsals don't cost any money perhaps unclear indications are fine, but I couldn't imagine a union gig where this is all hashed out in rehearsal. I can imagine the language which would be used to describe the composer, but I couldn't imagine how expensive such a discussion would be. But these are all reasons why I wouldn't use such signatures. I really don't have a problem with others using them, if that's what they think is the only way to make their musical meaning clear. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.719 / Virus Database: 475 - Release Date: 7/12/2004 ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Font Change During EPS Export
I tumbled in this today: the following characters "= 126" within Adobe Garamond Pro 10 pt font turned out to look as a staff portion like the "=" key within Maestro font, when exported in EPS Does this apply to you to? Giovanni Andreani ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Font Change During EPS Export
On 14.07.2004 15:08 Uhr, Giovanni Andreani wrote > I tumbled in this today: the following characters "= 126" within > Adobe Garamond Pro 10 pt font turned out to look as a staff portion like > the "=" key within Maestro font, when exported in EPS > Does this apply to you to? Windows or Mac? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Advice for harp pedalling
Dear all, I believe that sometimes the harp pedalling is easy using enharmonic notes (like F flat) but: Should I use them both in the score and in the part? Also any advice regarding notation of pedalling will be most appreciated. Muchas gracias, thanks a lot. Javier. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Font Change During EPS Export
>On 14.07.2004 15:08 Uhr, Giovanni Andreani wrote > >> I tumbled in this today: the following characters "= 126" within >> Adobe Garamond Pro 10 pt font turned out to look as a staff portion like >> the "=" key within Maestro font, when exported in EPS >> Does this apply to you to? > >Windows or Mac? > >Johannes Sorry, Mac Os 10.3.4 Giovanni ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] swing
I have a chart that needs swing playback in some places, no swing in others, and then swing again, but at a new tempo. I can get Finale 2K3(Mac) to swing for the first section, but I don't know how to define the next section of swing. The first section swings at Quarter = 102 The second section swings at Quarter = 120 How is it done? ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2/10 time signature
At 10:37 PM +0100 7/12/04, Owain Sutton wrote: I'd hazard a guess that 99.9% of music in the Western European and American tradition written in the past 20 years has been tonal, has used functional harmony, and has used clear metric patterns. That includes art music, educational music, worship music, popular music, jazz, and musical theater music. Well first of all, tonality and functional harmony are the same thing, unless you want to say that the music of Machaut is tonal, or that Balinese Gamelan music is tonal, and so on--wh. to me would make the term virtually meaningless. Beyond that, rock music is certainly not functional, except coincidentally. This is hardly surprising since it is derived from the blues, wh. is also nonfunctional. Consider: in rock you can cadence from any chord at all to the tonic--the one exception to this is the authentic cadence, which is banned except when parodying classical style. Songs that end with a fade (wh. is what, some 40% of the total?) conclude w. no cadence at all. This simply cannot be construed as functional harmony. As with 16th-century music, it is true that you can apply Roman numerals to the chords in a rock song, and often they will actually (seem to) obey the rules of functional harmony, at least for a while; but this is, as I say, coincidental, and often the musical meaning of the chords will directly contradict the supposed functional analysis. My favorite example of this is "She's Not There," by The Zombies. The chorus goes: But it's too (dm) late to say you're (am) sorry. How should I (dm [with bflat passing tone in the bass]) know, why should I (am) care? Don't (dm) bother try'n' to (C) find her, she's not (E) there! Oh let me tell you 'bout the (am) way she looked, (dm) The way she (am) acted, the (dm) color of her (am) hair. (dm) Her voice was (am) soft and cool, (dm) her eyes were (am) clear and bright, (dm) But she's not (am) there! Functionally, this is iv i iv i iv III V i iv i iv i iv i iv i iv i in a minor. Totally banal, right? Then explain to me why the absolutely ordinary half-cadence makes one's hair stand on end with its uncanniness, and perfectly illustrates the words "not there"? The answer is that in the rock harmonic idiom, the chord built on the fifth degree of the minor scale is not expected to be major. The E major triad is heard as an altered chord--and that is not functional harmony. -- Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] swing
- Original Message - From: "Eden - Lawrence D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Finale List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 4:04 PM Subject: [Finale] swing > I have a chart that needs swing playback in some places, no swing in > others, and then swing again, but at a new tempo. > > I can get Finale 2K3(Mac) to swing for the first section, but I don't know > how to define the next section of swing. > > The first section swings at Quarter = 102 > The second section swings at Quarter = 120 > > How is it done? You'll need two expressions. One with playback set to the new tempo and the other to adjust the degree of swing (from 0 to 150) to your preference. Peter ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Advice for harp pedalling
At 3:52 PM +0100 7/14/04, Javier Ruiz wrote: Dear all, I believe that sometimes the harp pedalling is easy using enharmonic notes (like F flat) but: Should I use them both in the score and in the part? Also any advice regarding notation of pedalling will be most appreciated. Muchas gracias, thanks a lot. Javier. From what harpists have told me, it is seldom necessary to mark pedalling, as you should just notate the pitches and the harpist will take care of the pedalling. If you are writing an educational piece or an etude, then of course that is an exception. I would notate enharmonics exactly the same on the score and part the way the harpist would normally pedal it, for example, a whole tone gliss starting on C I would notate in grace notes C,D,E,F#,G#,A#,Bb (that's one way) followed by a wavy gliss line up to the finishing pitch. This gives the harpist all the info he/she needs, with no ambiguity. I think that if a harpist has to make enharmonic changes in my parts, then I have failed to notate the part correctly. This is not to say that you shouldn't think about pedalling, for example harpists tell me it is very hard to change two pedals on the same side simultaneously, so if I were to need something like that it would have to be for a VERY good reason. I generally avoid extreme demands in ordinary music, as a general principle. Extreme demands only for extreme effects is my rule. If you DO need to notate pedalling, there are two main ways. 1) the easiest, and the one that I see harpists around here use when they need to mark up a part, is to write the only the pedal changes as note names - D#,Eb for example means change the D pedal to D# and the E pedal to Eb, other pedals stay in the same position as before. They are always written in left-to-right order DCBEFGA, with the untouched pedals left out. Now that Finale lets you mix fonts in text expressions, this method is REAL easy now. Before it was a kludge to get the sharps and flats in properly. 2) the other way is to mark the pedal positions as a graphic. All the pedals are shown in one of the three positions on the graphic. Matthew Hindson I think has a harp pedal font expressly for this purpose, and it would be worthwhile to check it out if you need to use this method. I would also advise you ask your friendly neighbourhood harpist for advice. This has always helped me immensely. Good luck. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] swing
At 11:04 AM -0400 7/14/04, Eden - Lawrence D. wrote: I have a chart that needs swing playback in some places, no swing in others, and then swing again, but at a new tempo. I can get Finale 2K3(Mac) to swing for the first section, but I don't know how to define the next section of swing. The first section swings at Quarter = 102 The second section swings at Quarter = 120 How is it done? Wow, I don't know how you got Finale to swing one section and not the other. When I try that, it swings the WHOLE piece. (FinMac2003) Are you setting the Swing in the Playback Controls window with the left-hand triangle opened, and Swing set in the lowest box to the right? This will set swing for the whole piece. Any tempo changes that come up won't stop the swing, much to my dismay at times. Let us know how you set the swing (I remember that there used to be another way, maybe in the MIDI tool?) and perhaps we can help you out. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: 2/10 Time Signatures
Yes, you are right. I think Rob's math was a little off. A sixth note is equal to one quarter in a quarter-note triplet. A twelfth note is one eighth-note triplet. And I think you meant to say "6 dotted EIGHTHS only gives you a dotted half" instead of "6 dotted quarters only gives you a dotted half." The math is not readily obvious until you've worked with it a bit, you'll admit. Christopher Doh! My bad - I did indeed mean triplets. Sorry for the confusion! "There are three types of conductors - those who can count and those who can't." -Rob = Rob Deemer Doctoral Candidate in Music Composition, Assistant Director, UT New Music Ensemble The University of Texas at Austin __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: 2/10 time signature
At 10:24 PM -0600 7/13/04, shirling & neueweise wrote: christopher, in all the cases i have seen using what are now commonly given the unfortunate name of "irrational" time signatures (*), the "whole" value implied is the whole note. 1/6 is indeed one-sixth of a whole note (quarter note triplet, as you wrote). Thank you. I am glad I have not been blowin' smoke all these years. re metric modulation: is it really easier to calculate a metric modulation on the fly (or does it take less time in rehearsal to calculate), than playing x number of triplet values following straight quarters (for example)? it seems to me that any professional musician working today (it is assumed that is who will be reading the part) should be able to "feel" and play triplet or quintuplet values without any calculation, as easily as s/he can play a change from straight quarters to straight eighths, or to swing. it is not really such a radical change of perspective (neither tactile nor intellectual) as is often implied. Triplets to quarters are certainly very easy to modulate, or not, if they were notated as tuplets. I WOULD modulate if I needed to stay in the new rhythm for a while, so I suppose the answer would depend on the context. I remember having this discussion on this list about key signatures in jazz a few months ago - whether to use them all the time, and when to modulate versus keeping the same key sig and using accidentals. Your question is very much to the point; if it is easier (read: more clear) to modulate the time sig, then do so. If it is more clear NOT to modulate time sigs, then don't. I like the way you cut through the fog to the point. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: 2/10 time signature
On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:13:22 -0400, Christopher BJ Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 10:24 PM -0600 7/13/04, shirling & neueweise wrote: > >christopher, in all the cases i have seen using what are now > >commonly given the unfortunate name of "irrational" time signatures > >(*), the "whole" value implied is the whole note. 1/6 is indeed > >one-sixth of a whole note (quarter note triplet, as you wrote). > > Thank you. I am glad I have not been blowin' smoke all these years. I haven't been following this thread all that closely, but I've come up with a question: in, for example, 3/6 meter, do you still have to mark the notes as three triplet quarters? Or does the 6 on the bottom imply that all quarters have quarter-triplet value? -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: 2/10 Time Signatures
On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:05:38 -0700 (PDT), Rob Deemer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "There are three types of conductors - those who can count and those who can't." There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] swing
You'll need to use the MIDI tool. Set the swing in the playback controls to NONE. Click the MIDI tool Select the first section that needs swing. MIDI Tool Menu-->Alter feel Alter backbeats by 171 Set to absolute Click OK Repeat with the other sections that swing. Tempo shouldn't matter On 7/14/04 11:01 AM, "Christopher BJ Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 11:04 AM -0400 7/14/04, Eden - Lawrence D. wrote: >> I have a chart that needs swing playback in some places, no swing in >> others, and then swing again, but at a new tempo. >> >> I can get Finale 2K3(Mac) to swing for the first section, but I don't know >> how to define the next section of swing. >> >> The first section swings at Quarter = 102 >> The second section swings at Quarter = 120 >> >> How is it done? > > > Wow, I don't know how you got Finale to swing one section and not the > other. When I try that, it swings the WHOLE piece. (FinMac2003) > > Are you setting the Swing in the Playback Controls window with the > left-hand triangle opened, and Swing set in the lowest box to the > right? This will set swing for the whole piece. Any tempo changes > that come up won't stop the swing, much to my dismay at times. > > Let us know how you set the swing (I remember that there used to be > another way, maybe in the MIDI tool?) and perhaps we can help you out. > > Christopher > ___ > Finale mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2/10 time signature
At 11:56 AM -0400 7/14/04, Andrew Stiller wrote: Well first of all, tonality and functional harmony are the same thing, unless you want to say that the music of Machaut is tonal, or that Balinese Gamelan music is tonal, and so on--wh. to me would make the term virtually meaningless. Beyond that, rock music is certainly not functional, except coincidentally. This is hardly surprising since it is derived from the blues, wh. is also nonfunctional. Consider: in rock you can cadence from any chord at all to the tonic--the one exception to this is the authentic cadence, which is banned except when parodying classical style. Songs that end with a fade (wh. is what, some 40% of the total?) conclude w. no cadence at all. This simply cannot be construed as functional harmony. Oh, I don't know about that. Most of those tunes have had a cadence of some sort at some important phrase break somewhere in the tune, even if it isn't an authentic cadence. Cadences in modal music exist, even without the leading tone. The real question here is what definition of tonal are you using? "Tonal" in Western concert music generally includes a V-I, but if you consider that atonal means with no discernable key centre at all, then there is a big gap between tonal and atonal, which includes a lot of modal music (like a lot of rock and pop, and jazz, too!) I'm not sure I'm very comfortable with the word "tonal" at all. What with all the baggage associated with Western common practice, it seems that we need a new word to describe music with a key centre, but not necessarily obeying classical practice, like the example you give below. As with 16th-century music, it is true that you can apply Roman numerals to the chords in a rock song, and often they will actually (seem to) obey the rules of functional harmony, at least for a while; but this is, as I say, coincidental, and often the musical meaning of the chords will directly contradict the supposed functional analysis. My favorite example of this is "She's Not There," by The Zombies. The chorus goes: But it's too (dm) late to say you're (am) sorry. How should I (dm [with bflat passing tone in the bass]) know, why should I (am) care? Don't (dm) bother try'n' to (C) find her, she's not (E) there! Oh let me tell you 'bout the (am) way she looked, (dm) The way she (am) acted, the (dm) color of her (am) hair. (dm) Her voice was (am) soft and cool, (dm) her eyes were (am) clear and bright, (dm) But she's not (am) there! Functionally, this is iv i iv i iv III V i iv i iv i iv i iv i iv i in a minor. Totally banal, right? Then explain to me why the absolutely ordinary half-cadence makes one's hair stand on end with its uncanniness, and perfectly illustrates the words "not there"? The answer is that in the rock harmonic idiom, the chord built on the fifth degree of the minor scale is not expected to be major. The E major triad is heard as an altered chord--and that is not functional harmony. well, it's not traditional tonal harmony as one expects in Western concert music, but it IS a perfectly good modal progression, with, as you pointed out, a borrowed chord from tonal harmony to good effect. Why is modal music not functional harmony? An ordinary plagal cadence is still tonal, isn't it? Most modal cadences are plagal of one sort or another. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: 2/10 time signature
At 9:32 AM -0700 7/14/04, Brad Beyenhof wrote: On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:13:22 -0400, Christopher BJ Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: At 10:24 PM -0600 7/13/04, shirling & neueweise wrote: >christopher, in all the cases i have seen using what are now >commonly given the unfortunate name of "irrational" time signatures >(*), the "whole" value implied is the whole note. 1/6 is indeed >one-sixth of a whole note (quarter note triplet, as you wrote). Thank you. I am glad I have not been blowin' smoke all these years. I haven't been following this thread all that closely, but I've come up with a question: in, for example, 3/6 meter, do you still have to mark the notes as three triplet quarters? Or does the 6 on the bottom imply that all quarters have quarter-triplet value? Yes, I would do so. I probably wouldn't write 3/6, though, as this situation is better covered by 2/4, 4/8, or 1/2, depending on the context. It is quite possible to have one instrument playing REAL quarters while another instrument playes the tuplet, so it is best to keep everything clean and clear. In a measure of 2/6 (an incomplete triplet) I would write 2 quarters with a bracketted 3. I know it's weird to see a triplet with only 2 notes inside the bracket, but it actually feels OK to perform it. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Advice for harp pedalling
Christopher BJ Smith writes: > From what harpists have told me, it is seldom necessary to mark > pedalling, as you should just notate the pitches and the harpist will > take care of the pedalling. If you are writing an educational piece > or an etude, then of course that is an exception. But for glissandi or similar things, you have to either put the pedals position there or put all notes of the first octave in the "glissando scale". > 1) the easiest, and the one that I see harpists around here use when > they need to mark up a part, is to write the only the pedal changes > as note names - D#,Eb for example means change the D pedal to D# and > the E pedal to Eb, other pedals stay in the same position as before. > They are always written in left-to-right order DCBEFGA, with the > untouched pedals left out. > > Now that Finale lets you mix fonts in text expressions, this method > is REAL easy now. Before it was a kludge to get the sharps and flats > in properly. The Engraver Harp Text font included in Finale is intended for harp pedaling names, without the need to change font. It also includes the required "dividers" for left/right foot. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Re: [] Multiple File Bug - Test File?
A couple of days ago I got a test file with a damaged text expression from Darcy. In that file, the text for one expression was pointing to a raw text block in the "normal" text pool, instead of pointing to the expression raw text pool. If you're interested, here's my _guess_ to why that happened: The routine in FinMac that creates text blocks sometimes "mistakes" which tool that is currently selected, perhaps if the last tool change was made when another document was active. Again, it's only a guess. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: 2/10 time signature
Christopher BJ Smith wrote: At 9:32 AM -0700 7/14/04, Brad Beyenhof wrote: On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:13:22 -0400, Christopher BJ Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: At 10:24 PM -0600 7/13/04, shirling & neueweise wrote: >christopher, in all the cases i have seen using what are now >commonly given the unfortunate name of "irrational" time signatures >(*), the "whole" value implied is the whole note. 1/6 is indeed >one-sixth of a whole note (quarter note triplet, as you wrote). Thank you. I am glad I have not been blowin' smoke all these years. I haven't been following this thread all that closely, but I've come up with a question: in, for example, 3/6 meter, do you still have to mark the notes as three triplet quarters? Or does the 6 on the bottom imply that all quarters have quarter-triplet value? Yes, I would do so. I probably wouldn't write 3/6, though, as this situation is better covered by 2/4, 4/8, or 1/2, depending on the context. It is quite possible to have one instrument playing REAL quarters while another instrument playes the tuplet, so it is best to keep everything clean and clear. In a measure of 2/6 (an incomplete triplet) I would write 2 quarters with a bracketted 3. I know it's weird to see a triplet with only 2 notes inside the bracket, but it actually feels OK to perform it. I would regard this as an imperfect solution - a triplet bracket without three beats inside simply doesn't add up. As for the question about 3/6 - yes, the 6 indicates the proportional change of the duration of each quarter note. In response to suggestions elsewhere in the thread that it's possible to use "5x = 4y" above barlines instead of x/10 or x/12 metres - that method becomes unwieldly if there are metre changes in most or even every bar. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: 2/10 time signature
it is implied. but it is much simpler in cases to notate 2/4 with quarter triplets (and many composers who use /5 etc. time sigs do so...). one of the main values of using these time sigs is that they can indicate a fraction of the whole (or of a binary division of it), eg. 3/5, 7/12. jef From: Brad Beyenhof <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> in, for example, 3/6 meter, do you still have to mark the notes as three triplet quarters? Or does the 6 on the bottom imply that all quarters have quarter-triplet value? -- shirling & neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ++ ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: 2/10 time signature
From: dhbailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> if not all people use it the same way, it can hardly be called a convention or a standard, can it? once past the initial arguments and obstinacy, all people do in fact use and understand it the same way. it is a convention for many. although you certainly don't have to use such time sigs if your music doesn't warrant it, the fact that you don't use them in your musical realm isn't justification for claiming it to be universally non-conventional. And if the meaning isn't clear, should a copy of Henry Cowell's book be included at no charge with the purchase of any music containing such time signatures? is a copy of modus vetus included in every score containing pitch intervals? jef -- shirling & neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ++ ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: 2/10 time signature
shirling & neueweise wrote: From: dhbailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> if not all people use it the same way, it can hardly be called a convention or a standard, can it? once past the initial arguments and obstinacy, all people do in fact use and understand it the same way. it is a convention for many. although you certainly don't have to use such time sigs if your music doesn't warrant it, the fact that you don't use them in your musical realm isn't justification for claiming it to be universally non-conventional. And if the meaning isn't clear, should a copy of Henry Cowell's book be included at no charge with the purchase of any music containing such time signatures? is a copy of modus vetus included in every score containing pitch intervals? jef Nope. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: 2/10 time signature
Op 14-jul-04 om 20:43 heeft shirling & neueweise het volgende geschreven: From: dhbailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> if not all people use it the same way, it can hardly be called a convention or a standard, can it? once past the initial arguments and obstinacy, all people do in fact use and understand it the same way. it is a convention for many. although you certainly don't have to use such time sigs if your music doesn't warrant it, the fact that you don't use them in your musical realm isn't justification for claiming it to be universally non-conventional. And if the meaning isn't clear, should a copy of Henry Cowell's book be included at no charge with the purchase of any music containing such time signatures? is a copy of modus vetus included in every score containing pitch intervals? yes, internalized in the mind of the performer... klaas jef -- shirling & neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ++ ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: 2/10 Time Signatures
And the 8 types left? LOL! Javier > There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand > binary, and those who don't. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Advice for harp pedalling
Thanks to Christopher and Jari for their answers. I also have found that the Andrew Stiller´s Book has a lot of information on the subject. > Dear all, > I believe that sometimes the harp pedalling is easy using enharmonic notes > (like F flat) but: > > Should I use them both in the score and in the part? > > Also any advice regarding notation of pedalling will be most appreciated. > > Muchas gracias, thanks a lot. > > Javier. > > ___ > Finale mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2/10 time signature
On Jul 14, 2004, at 1:11 PM, Christopher BJ Smith wrote: if you consider that atonal means with no discernable key centre at all, then there is a big gap between tonal and atonal, which includes a lot of modal music (like a lot of rock and pop, and jazz, too!) The word "atonal" was coined at a time when it was widely believed that functional tonality was a law of nature, and that early music and world music merely represented primitive states of it. We now no longer think this way, but the word "atonal" still keeps its original meaning. To define tonal as "not atonal" is deeply ironic, because it assigns to atonality a breadth and depth of influence that it never had. Imagine if instead one were to divide all music into Impressionist and Non-impressionist! See what I mean? There is a similar confusion in the art world, where laypeople confuse "abstract" with "non-objective" and think that both are the opposite of "realistic." Why is modal music not functional harmony? Because a mode is a mode and harmony is harmony. It's like asking "why is time not measurable in centimeters?" If by "modal music" you mean the music of the Renaissance and Middle Ages, you shd. note that none of this music was composed by assembling chords, but by following rules of counterpoint that apply to individual pairs of voices only, never to full chordal entities. In functional harmony (i.e., tonal harmony), every chord has a function (it can only appear in certain contexts and serves a particular, fixed purpose in driving the harmony forward) and the whole thrust of the music is driven by the relationships between chords. Mediaeval and Renaissance music is not even *about* chords, and though it contains chords, they are secondary to melodic and contrapuntal concerns, and do not drive the music. An ordinary plagal cadence is still tonal, isn't it? Only in a tonal context. Before 1600 or so, no, it isn't tonal. Is a Landini cadence tonal? Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Advice for harp pedalling
On Jul 14, 2004, at 3:46 PM, Javier Ruiz wrote: Thanks to Christopher and Jari for their answers. I also have found that the Andrew Stiller´s Book has a lot of information on the subject. Oh good! That spares me from the rant I was going to send in reply to some of the other responses. :-) Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Shaped note font
Title: Shaped note font Richard, There is another and preferable way to write music in shaped note notation. Use a shaped note font such as Karen Willard's Doremi. If you would like to see an example, some of my class assignments are still on the web at: http://www.goshen.edu/~lonhs/Practical_Musician/Shapenotes.html These examples are hymns from the Harmonia Sacra and are all student work done on Finale with play back. I found a current resource page for the Doremi font. URL below: http://www.mcsr.olemiss.edu/~mudws/resource/chap12.html Lon Sherer ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Advice for harp pedalling
On 14 Jul, 2004, at 11:56 AM, Christopher BJ Smith wrote: From what harpists have told me, it is seldom necessary to mark pedalling, I suspect this was what Andrew was about to rant about. But I also suspect Chris and Andrew are dealing with different batches of harpists -- or possibly, the same harpists who have different expectations in different situations. In any kind of -- erhm, "nonpop," I guess -- music, you obviously have to mark pedal changes. Even in the pop arrangements I've done for orchestras, I always mark harp parts with an initial pedal diagram and show all pedal changes, and the harpist *always* appreciates it. However, I expect that Chris deals with a lot of harpists who have played so many charts with incorrect or incomplete pedal markings that they'd rather have none at all than have to second-guess every markings in the score (and be super-vigilant for missing markings, etc). I would notate enharmonics exactly the same on the score and part the way the harpist would normally pedal it, This is true, and answers Javier's question. 1) the easiest, and the one that I see harpists around here use when they need to mark up a part, is to... ... use the TGTools Harp Pedaling plugin. Do not use the "flip enharmonic" option or whatever it's called these days -- just make sure the notes are spelled correctly, then let TGTools handle the initial diagram and subsequent pedal changes. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] swing
On 14 Jul, 2004, at 12:57 PM, Allen Fisher wrote: You'll need to use the MIDI tool. Set the swing in the playback controls to NONE. Click the MIDI tool Select the first section that needs swing. MIDI Tool Menu-->Alter feel Alter backbeats by 171 Set to absolute Click OK Repeat with the other sections that swing. Tempo shouldn't matter More detailed instructions: First, in the MIDI menu, you need to make sure that "Note Durations" is checked. Next, do not alter backbeats by "171." Somewhere between 90 and 140 will work better -- slower tempos need a larger number and vice versa. But 171 is far too much even at the slowest tempos. Personally, I think Finale's approximation of swing is effectively useless, but if you insist on using it, something considerably less than a 2/3:1/3 ratio (which is what you get when you alter backbeats by 171) will sound comparatively better. The other thing you can do with Alter Feel is to select the swing section with the MIDI tool, select "Key Velocities," then "Alter Feel," then "Backbeats," then enter something between 105-115% of original. Keep in mind, this whole endeavor is like trying to get a dog to walk upright. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2/10 time signature
At 4:48 PM -0400 7/14/04, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Jul 14, 2004, at 1:11 PM, Christopher BJ Smith wrote: if you consider that atonal means with no discernable key centre at all, then there is a big gap between tonal and atonal, which includes a lot of modal music (like a lot of rock and pop, and jazz, too!) The word "atonal" was coined at a time when it was widely believed that functional tonality was a law of nature, and that early music and world music merely represented primitive states of it. We now no longer think this way, but the word "atonal" still keeps its original meaning. To define tonal as "not atonal" is deeply ironic, because it assigns to atonality a breadth and depth of influence that it never had. Imagine if instead one were to divide all music into Impressionist and Non-impressionist! See what I mean? There is a similar confusion in the art world, where laypeople confuse "abstract" with "non-objective" and think that both are the opposite of "realistic." I know there is a lot of history backing up the V chord as the basis of tonality, but I still maintain that we need a word to cover music that DOESN'T have a functional leading tone, yet is still in a recognizable key. I don't mind the term "tonal" for this, despite the lack of V chord. I usually apply the term "non-functional" in a harmonic context to chords that don't fit the key in an easily construable way. I was a bit surprised to see you applying it to any harmony that doesn't have a V-I cadence, as our apparent definitions of the term seem to be worlds apart. Why is modal music not functional harmony? Because a mode is a mode and harmony is harmony. It's like asking "why is time not measurable in centimeters?" If by "modal music" you mean the music of the Renaissance and Middle Ages, No, I'd also be including a lot of Britten, Stravinsky, Ravel, Vaughn Williams, PRokofieff, Bartok, and a lot of rock, pop, folk, and jazz under the "modal" umbrella as well. There most certainly are modal harmony and modal chord progressions, and they mostly don't have leading tones. I would still call them "functional", as they still serve to outline the key (mode), and bring us back to a functional I chord through cadences (though not authentic cadences most of the time!) I suppose if your definition of modal ends with the Middle Ages, then there isn't much use trying to find terms to discuss modal harmony. you shd. note that none of this music was composed by assembling chords, but by following rules of counterpoint that apply to individual pairs of voices only, never to full chordal entities. In functional harmony (i.e., tonal harmony) Ah! I see. Functional harmony as you define it always includes a V chord. , every chord has a function (it can only appear in certain contexts and serves a particular, fixed purpose in driving the harmony forward) and the whole thrust of the music is driven by the relationships between chords. Mediaeval and Renaissance music is not even *about* chords, and though it contains chords, they are secondary to melodic and contrapuntal concerns, and do not drive the music. An ordinary plagal cadence is still tonal, isn't it? Only in a tonal context. Before 1600 or so, no, it isn't tonal. Then how about late 19th c and early 20th c? How about the ii-i cadence in Miles Davis' "So What" that defines D dorian so well? I guess I am still looking for a term other than "non-functional" to describe non-V-chord progressions that stay in a key or mode, and define that key or mode. Incidentally, most of the strongly convincing modal cadences I have found include the perfect 4th degree from the mode in the penultimate chord, and avoid a leading tone, which is pretty much the definition of a plagal cadence (at least to my modern ears. I realize that it was much more tightly defined in previous centuries.) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] And melody, too
I haven't read the entire thread, so this may have been advanced already; Schenker would have us remember that , melodically speaking, 3-2-1 is the keystone of tonality, just as 5-1 defines it harmonically. Of course, that particular melodic progression implies the I-V-I phenom. Dean technology is a fickle mistresscan't live with hercan't live witout her. Upgrade or perish. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Advice for harp pedalling
At 4:59 PM -0400 7/14/04, Andrew Stiller wrote: Oh good! That spares me from the rant I was going to send in reply to some of the other responses. :-) Dang! On the wrong side of Andrew twice in the same day! First, functional harmony, then harp pedallings! I'd better keep my nose clean! 8-) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] FinMac 2004c - Taking too long to allocate instruments
I have updated from Finale 2002 to 2004c on my desktop machine (G4/400). When I open a new document it sits for 4-6 minutes (!) while displaying this message: "Finale Is Allocating Instruments for internal speaker playback" Then everytime I press the play button it sits for 1:30 while displaying the same message Can I speed this up? Its crazy. -- Rocky Road - in Oz "Fleeing from the Cylon tyranny, the last Battlestar, Galactica, leads a ragtag, fugitive fleet, on a lonely quest, for a shining planet known as Earth." ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2004c - Taking too long to allocate instruments
On Jul 14, 2004, at 4:52 PM, Rocky Road wrote: I have updated from Finale 2002 to 2004c on my desktop machine (G4/400). When I open a new document it sits for 4-6 minutes (!) while displaying this message: "Finale Is Allocating Instruments for internal speaker playback" Then everytime I press the play button it sits for 1:30 while displaying the same message Can I speed this up? Its crazy. -- Rocky Road - in Oz "Fleeing from the Cylon tyranny, the last Battlestar, Galactica, leads a ragtag, fugitive fleet, on a lonely quest, for a shining planet known as Earth." ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale This is scaring me, 'cause it's what I'm about to do. I hope Rocky receives some solutions post haste. Dean technology is a fickle mistresscan't live with hercan't live witout her. Upgrade or perish. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] FinMac 2004c - Taking too long to allocate instruments
OS9 or OSX? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rocky Road Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 6:53 PM To: Finale List Subject: [Finale] FinMac 2004c - Taking too long to allocate instruments I have updated from Finale 2002 to 2004c on my desktop machine (G4/400). When I open a new document it sits for 4-6 minutes (!) while displaying this message: "Finale Is Allocating Instruments for internal speaker playback" Then everytime I press the play button it sits for 1:30 while displaying the same message Can I speed this up? Its crazy. -- Rocky Road - in Oz "Fleeing from the Cylon tyranny, the last Battlestar, Galactica, leads a ragtag, fugitive fleet, on a lonely quest, for a shining planet known as Earth." ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2004c - Taking too long to allocate instruments
Rocky Road writes: I have updated from Finale 2002 to 2004c on my desktop machine (G4/400). When I open a new document it sits for 4-6 minutes (!) while displaying this message: "Finale Is Allocating Instruments for internal speaker playback" Then everytime I press the play button it sits for 1:30 while displaying the same message Can I speed this up? Its crazy. Hey, Man! That doesn't make sense. I'm on a G4 iMac/800 and when I open a Finale file when Finale 2004c is not running it takes 14 seconds for the score to appear - and no messages appear. I have MIDI set to play QuickTime instruments, internal speakers OFF. The "Allocating" message is on for 2 seconds when I start playback, but only the first time. I have Human Playback set to NONE. I have Autosave files, Automatic layout and music spacing, Automatic word extensions all turned off, but these would affect speed of entry, not speed of opening Finale and any files. It could be that your hard drive is desperately fragmented (or sick), in which case, you should use a defragmentation program to fix it. It could be that you need to rebuild the desktop. These housekeeping chores can make quite a difference. Good luck, Hal -- Harold Owen 2830 Emerald St., Eugene, OR 97403 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit my web site at: http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen FAX: (509) 461-3608 ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2004c - Taking too long to allocate instruments
Wow. Sound like you have some serious issues there. Check your fragmentation on the hard drive. That would probably be the most likely thing that is causing this. My lowly G4 450 cube doesn't take more than 30 seconds to load and play something I have updated from Finale 2002 to 2004c on my desktop machine (G4/400). When I open a new document it sits for 4-6 minutes (!) while displaying this message: "Finale Is Allocating Instruments for internal speaker playback" Then everytime I press the play button it sits for 1:30 while displaying the same message Can I speed this up? Its crazy. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2004c - Taking too long to allocate instruments
On 15.07.2004 4:52 Uhr, Eric Dannewitz wrote > Wow. Sound like you have some serious issues there. Check your fragmentation > on the hard drive. That would probably be the most likely thing that is > causing this. You never know, but I really don't think fragmentation has anything to do with this. I would take out Finale's prefs file from the prefs folder and see whether this helps. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
