Re: [Finale] Missing from 2k5, ....
Noel Stoutenburg wrote: ...but will it be missed. I notice that in the revised start up dialog box, that there is no provision for opening an empty document or document without libraries. If upon further exploration I don't find where this option now resides, my workaround will be to open an empty document in an earlier version of Finale, save it immediately as a template named empty.FTM. Did you look in the Files/New menu option? That's where it's been hidden in Fin2004. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 13, Issue 22
On 21/8/04 2:45 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's one big reason why the bug should be fixed: SIBELIUS Anyone coming to Finale from that background will immediately discard Finale as a viable product because of this bug. As a regular Sibelius user (not my choice), I am sure they would be pleased, just to be rid of an enormous amount of equally irritating bugs! Anybody who has to prepare a part in Sibelius with several Woodwind doubles will appreciate what a wonderful thing staff styles are :-) In my humble opinion it must be that 90% of Sibelius users never used a music notation program before (all those it's fantastic, I press notes on the keyboard and they come out on the screen quotes I have heard). I would submit that if the note spacing that Sibelius produces (especially with multiple layers), is better, then they need their eyes testing. Anyway rant over, I actually have a day off! Bye all. Dave Hage Dakota Music Service ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 13, Issue 22
David Hage wrote: In my humble opinion it must be that 90% of Sibelius users never used a music notation program before (all those it's fantastic, I press notes on the keyboard and they come out on the screen quotes I have heard). I would submit that if the note spacing that Sibelius produces (especially with multiple layers), is better, then they need their eyes testing. Anyway rant over, I actually have a day off! Unfortunately, simplicity sells. And if people are weaned on Sibelius (for example at school), they're first choice when they buy their own software will be Sibelius. And many people don't identify the limitations of the software, but rather they work within it (several times I've heard I wanted to do XYZ but Sibelius wouldn't let me from university-level composers). Finale needs to have *extra* attractiveness than Sibelius for first-time users, when at the minute it's well behind. Despite it's greater capabilities (I've picked up engraving jobs which were turned down by Sibelius users as 'not possible'). ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Putting Finale in schools [was: Re: Finale Digest, Vol 13, Issue 22]
dhbailey wrote: Finale doesn't need extra attractiveness -- out of the box, with simple entry turned on by default (the way it installs on my machine) it works as easily as Sibelius does. MakeMusic needs their woefully inadequate publicity and marketing departments to get off their duffs and put Finale in all those schools which either have no software or are using Sibelius. And I don't mean by touting non-features like MicNotator and Scanning capabilities. I wouldn't be surprised to find (although I can't prove this and it is purely conjecture) that Sibelius is offering better deals to school labs, and I also wouldn't be surprised to find that Sibelius is sending free copies to undecided music teachers who are in charge of school labs, just to win the contract. There's certainly the fully-functioning non-saving demo available for download. Far more impressive than having people download Finale Notepad and assume it's representative of Finale. Heck, what does it actually cost MakeMusic to produce one installation disk of Finale? 50-cents? A dollar? They should be giving it away by the bucketfulls to schools, even to the point of sending around clinicians (I'm available Makemusic, are you listening?) I'm available, too! :D Free enterprise and marketing are valuable tools, MakeMusic. You should start using them! Think of the tax write-off (at $99 per copy or whatever) the company could take if they gave away 10,000 free copies. And even if only half of them resulted in the purchase of the annual upgrade, that would wipe out the company's 2nd quarter loss right there! But with the $990,000 deduction for promotional costs, they could show a bigger loss and pay less taxes, all the while effectively wiping out the loss in their cash flow. Interestingly, Finale actually cheaper for academic purchases: A UK 10-user site licence is £700 ex VAT, compared to £1149 for Sibelius. Additional point on note: A thoroughly unstatistical random selection of UK university music departments websites turns up 4 touting Sibelius being available on their computers, 2 with both Finale and Sibelius, and none with just Finale. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Putting Finale in schools [was: Re: Finale Digest, Vol 13, Issue 22]
Owain Sutton wrote: dhbailey wrote: Finale doesn't need extra attractiveness -- out of the box, with simple entry turned on by default (the way it installs on my machine) it works as easily as Sibelius does. MakeMusic needs their woefully inadequate publicity and marketing departments to get off their duffs and put Finale in all those schools which either have no software or are using Sibelius. And I don't mean by touting non-features like MicNotator and Scanning capabilities. I wouldn't be surprised to find (although I can't prove this and it is purely conjecture) that Sibelius is offering better deals to school labs, and I also wouldn't be surprised to find that Sibelius is sending free copies to undecided music teachers who are in charge of school labs, just to win the contract. There's certainly the fully-functioning non-saving demo available for download. Far more impressive than having people download Finale Notepad and assume it's representative of Finale. [snip] True enough about the demo, but you can't really find out the capabilities of a program unless you can work for a while, save your work, think for a while, come back and continue to work on what you've saved. Non-saving demos are worse than useless in my mind. The other negative factor against assuming that the demo will help marketing is that it forces the user to actively search it out, download it, try it, get frustrated with the inability to save and yet despite that expect them to buy it. That only works for people who are already fairly well convinced that Finale is what they want to begin with. Hardly active marketing, in my opinion. Your statistics on notation software use in U.K. schools is very telling, especially in light of your listing the 10-user site license fees! Somebody's doing a poor job of marketing and it isn't Sibelius! -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Putting Finale in schools [was: Re: Finale Digest, Vol 13, Issue 22]
dhbailey wrote: Finale doesn't need extra attractiveness -- out of the box, with simple entry turned on by default (the way it installs on my machine) it works as easily as Sibelius does. MakeMusic needs their woefully inadequate publicity and marketing departments to get off their duffs and put Finale in all those schools which either have no software or are using Sibelius. And I don't mean by touting non-features like MicNotator and Scanning capabilities. I wouldn't be surprised to find (although I can't prove this and it is purely conjecture) that Sibelius is offering better deals to school labs, and I also wouldn't be surprised to find that Sibelius is sending free copies to undecided music teachers who are in charge of school labs, just to win the contract. There's certainly the fully-functioning non-saving demo available for download. Far more impressive than having people download Finale Notepad and assume it's representative of Finale. [snip] True enough about the demo, but you can't really find out the capabilities of a program unless you can work for a while, save your work, think for a while, come back and continue to work on what you've saved. Non-saving demos are worse than useless in my mind. The other negative factor against assuming that the demo will help marketing is that it forces the user to actively search it out, download it, try it, get frustrated with the inability to save and yet despite that expect them to buy it. That only works for people who are already fairly well convinced that Finale is what they want to begin with. Hardly active marketing, in my opinion. Fair enough. I suppose I was an exception, being able to obatin a complete Sibelius file of the type of music I work with to play around with. Your statistics on notation software use in U.K. schools is very telling, especially in light of your listing the 10-user site license fees! Somebody's doing a poor job of marketing and it isn't Sibelius! MM don't even bother with proper marketing in the UK - they leave it all to their agent, etcetera.co.uk, for whom it's only one small part of their business. (And their website's a mess.) Compare that to Sibelius, whose website automatically directs to a UK-oriented one. Little things can make a huge difference: it took me about 3 times as long to find that UK Finale price as the Sibelius one. Sibelius also are offering on-site training for academic institutions. Sure, I know the UK isn't a huge market on the scheme of things, but it really does demonstrate there's an attitude problem with MM. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Tuplet bug in Fin2005 demo
Hi Aaron, Yes, I see what you mean: the larger the intervals get, the more the number seems to pull away from the bracket; a black eye for Enhanced Tuplets. However, if you are doing a piece with mostly linear tuplet passages, I think things will look fairly reasonable, with less fussing than before 5K. Since this is one of only 3 features that I will find useful this time around, it would be nice if it worked perfectly! Dan Carno At 06:58 PM 8/21/2004, you wrote: At 03:00 PM 08/21/2004, Dan Carno wrote: We may be talking about different things here, but when I enter an eighth note tuplet, with the first note a rest, and do not edit it, I have a reasonable centered number (vertically horizontally) relative to the bracket. But look at http://files.aaron.sherber.com/tuplet.gif The problem is more apparent when you have several of these tuplets with different intervals -- the number is positioned vertically different from the bracket. Or enter just one tuplet, with the two notes an octave apart, and you'll see that the number is not in the correct vertical position. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Daniel Carno Music Engraving Services Quality work in Sibelius, Finale, and Score 4514 Makyes Road Syracuse, New York 13215 (315) 492-2987 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Problem scanning with Finale 2005 demo for Windows
Hello. I have tried scanning with the demo of Finale 2005 for Windows and get an error message, with Finale having to quit. The scanning worked fine with version 2004 Here are a few lines of the error message Exception InformationCode: 0xc090 Flags: 0xRecord: 0x Address: 0x062cf0d4 System InformationWindows NT 5.1 Build: 2600CPU Vendor Code: 68747541 - 69746E65 - 444D4163CPU Version: 06A0 CPU Feature Code: 0383FBFFCPU AMD Feature Code: C1C3FBFF Module 1FINALE.EXEImage Base: 0x0040 Image Size: 0x Checksum: 0x0074a634 Time Stamp: 0x411bc47f Does anyone else have the same problem? What, if anything can I do to resolve the problem? Many thanks for your help. Paul Copeland ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Crystal's problem revisited
On Aug 21, 2004, at 9:00 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 21 Aug 2004, at 08:32 PM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: The problem of a repeat symbol already has two solutions involving expressions, but are these viable as addional options? 1) Create the symbol as part of the chord library, again using the symbol from the Jazz font in the proper size? This would seem to have the advantage of being able to add the symbol without selecting a different tool to do so. It's kind of a pain to add just the chord suffix without a chord root. Possible, but kind of a pain. You have to first create the symbol with a dummy chord root, then delete the chord root after the fact. Have you tried Type Into Score, simply typing :75 WITHOUT typing a root (where 75 is the slot number of the suffix?) I use this for NC, among other things. My bigger problem with this solution is that it is harder to place it correctly in the measure. You would have to have an entry on beat 3 to attach it to, which makes it more of a kludge than a simple text expression would be. I know Crystal didn't ask, but I would question the need to put a repeat sign for a chord symbol only. It is standard to the idiom that a chord symbol continues exerting its influence until it is changed or cancelled by an NC (no chord), unless the system changes, in which case you put in the chord again. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 13, Issue 22
On Aug 22, 2004, at 7:56 AM, Owain Sutton wrote: Unfortunately, simplicity sells. And how! I know some pros here in town that use Encore, bugs and limitations and all, just so they don't have to learn a new software! And if people are weaned on Sibelius (for example at school), they're first choice when they buy their own software will be Sibelius. I can't emphasize enough how right you are! Most of my computing choices (Mac platform, AppleWorks, Cubase, Finale) are based on what I started on, either because of what was on the school computers or what my friends had (so I could tap them for free support!) And many people don't identify the limitations of the software, but rather they work within it (several times I've heard I wanted to do XYZ but Sibelius wouldn't let me from university-level composers). Drives me nuts, and I mentally slap myself on the wrists every time I find myself influenced in a notational choice by how easy (or hard) it is to do in Finale. (Me too done for now.) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Putting Finale in schools
At 10:34 AM 8/22/04 -0400, Christopher Smith wrote: On Aug 22, 2004, at 7:56 AM, Owain Sutton wrote: And if people are weaned on Sibelius (for example at school), they're first choice when they buy their own software will be Sibelius. I can't emphasize enough how right you are! Most of my computing choices (Mac platform, AppleWorks, Cubase, Finale) are based on what I started on, either because of what was on the school computers or what my friends had (so I could tap them for free support!) Finale/Coda/MakeMusic has had inept marketing in the past few years. Sibelius has been sponsoring festivals and events, aside from their school marketing. Back in 2001 when we were doing our Ought-One Festival (37 concerts, 100 composers, 150 performers), we asked for sponsorship from Finale. They didn't offer any cash sponsorship, but did offer to provide several copies of Finale either to sell or give away as prizes for fundraising. In July of 2001, this is what their marketing person wrote to me: I think what we'd want to do is donate a few Finale's. You could have a contest to give them away, have them as door prizes or whatever you deem best. We also could give away some free Finale 2002 upgrades. I would VERY much like that as I am working on an article for the American Composers Forum in which I want to focus on how these composers use Finale. I accepted immediately, added the company to the list of sponsors. They never came through with anything, and ignored my followup emails. You can bet *that* gave me a warm, fuzzy feeling. I've said it over and over: If any program could do everything Finale could do for the preparation of new music scores, and import my old Finale files, I would be gone in an instant. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Reply to Dwain (too long!)
At 12:56 PM +0100 8/22/04, Owain Sutton wrote: David Hage wrote: In my humble opinion it must be that 90% of Sibelius users never used a music notation program before Unfortunately, simplicity sells. Well of COURSE simplicity sells. Simplicity is also the hallmark of a mature technology. Simplicity means that anyone can pick it up and use it without worrying about how it works. (Not my original idea, by the way. The subject of an excellent editorial by Stan Schmidt in Analog a while back.) For a crude example, land-line telephony is a mature technology. Anyone can use it. You don't need expensive training. It works when your power goes out. Cell-phone technology is far from being mature, in part because the infrastructure does not yet exist. Cells can lose signal and leave the user frustrated and helpless. The first music programs were designed by engineers, not musicians. Essentially they invented their own graphic engineering notation that made wonderful sense to them, and got away from all that grody old stuff that was developed for monks with feathers. (That's still what you find in some sequencing programs.) Only problem was that real musicians had no intention of dropping the notation that served them so well and has become the international standard of musical communication, feathers or not. The power users on this mailing list--and I have enormous respect for them and their knowledge and skills--scoff at the idea of using Finale, or any program, right out of the box, but I submit that the expectation of using something right out of the box is a legitimate expectation and, again, the mark of a mature technology. I expect to plug in a new refrigerator or range and start using it. I don't expect to have to reprogram it because the default settings selected by the engineers who designed it aren't what they should be. Obviously music notation technology is not yet mature. There's also the phychological and physiological aspect of any technology. The amount of basic research done by Bell Labs by people like von Bekesy (sp?) is absolutely incredible, and that research is one reason land-line telephony is a mature techology. In computer programs we're talking about the user interface. It doesn't matter what's happening under the hood. What matters is how easily and how quickly and efficiently the user can DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. My father-in-law was a master salesman working for Humble Oil. He told his bosses, Keep the engineers away from my customers. All they talk about is what the product can do. I need to talk about what the product will do FOR MY CUSTOMER! Modern heads-up displays are hardly a simple technology, but they are the result of an incredible amount of basic and applied research into human psychology and perception since WW II. They are simple to use, by someone who has been properly trained, and when there's a missile on your tail, that's all that counts! But with the requirement for highly specialized training, they are hardly mature, and their use is hardly simple. It will probably be the auto makers who turn them into a mature technology that anyone can use right out of the box, not the defense contractors. And if people are weaned on Sibelius (for example at school), they're first choice when they buy their own software will be Sibelius. That's a real obvious marketing truth, and it's one reason Apple has remained viable in a world awash in Windows. Product placement is effective. It works. Applies to pianos, athletic shoes, beer, and virtually anything else. (As an aside, our music department switched from Finale to Sibelius as the required notation program for the simple reason that the new Freshman class was coming in, we required them to have Macintosh computers, those computers came with OS X, and Finale was too inept to have developed an OS X version (and from what I read here, still haven't figured it out!). We literally had no choice! Deadlines are deadlines. Sibelius: good marketing; Finale: horrible marketing! And many people don't identify the limitations of the software, but rather they work within it (several times I've heard I wanted to do XYZ but Sibelius wouldn't let me from university-level composers). Isn't it just a little disingenuous to talk about not identifying the limitations of the software, when the annual rants about Finale's bugs and failure to fix them and what the new program won't do and what needs to be made up for by third-party programmers and so on is in full hue and cry? I find it interesting that Composer's Mosaic does many things quickly and easily that Finale users are still struggling with, even though Mosaic's list of things it can NOT do is plenty long. The fact is that Finale can NOT do everything, and maybe that's true of any software. So the fact that Sibelius or other programs can not do everything either may be true, but is almost
Re: [Finale] Creating symbol in jazz font
At 5:06 PM -0400 8/21/04, Crystal Premo wrote: I am doing some charts for a jazz singer, and she wishes me to place the symbol for play the same thing in this measure that you played in the last measure symbol (sorry I don't know its name; it looks like a divided by sign) above certain measures in place of a chord. It is not available except in a staff style. I don't know why she feels the need to have it, but she does. I have created it as an expression, but it doesn't look very good, especially since it doesn't have the jazz font style. I suppose I could put another staff above it and blank out everything except that symbol, but it seems like a lot of work considering that she asked for this *after* I had done the whole chart. Crystal: I realize that you need to give your client what she wants, but I would certainly never clutter the page with such symbols. A chord symbol stays in effect until cancelled by the next symbol! I've never seen what she wants, and I've certainly never used it. By the way, totally unofficial, but I've always thought of it as the ditto symbol, and the repeat-2-bars version as the double ditto. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Reality check (Was Re: [Finale] Re: Tuplet bug in Fin2005 demo)
David Bailey wrote: But they're just as bad at not fixing long-standing bugs that some users have been complaining about for a long time as well as introducing new bugs and saying we'll try to fix it in a future upgrade. So that rather than the two companies really goading each other into offering superior products to each other, instead they seem to be matching each other in corporate attitude. Quick reality check, before all this bitching and moaning makes us lose our perspective altogether: how many software companies have you dealt with who will actually directly acknowledge a bug to you, and tell you that they'll try to fix it in a future upgrade? And how many commercial software companies have you dealt with who will ship a patched version just to fix a single problem? Have you ever got an acknowledgement from a human being at Microsoft about a bug in Word, say? Or from a human being at Adobe about a bug in Acrobat Reader? Or from a human being at Macromedia about a bug in Shockwave? If so, I want email addresses and/or phone numbers! Now I'm not saying that we should all fall on our knees and worship either Coda or Sibelius for acknowledging that there are problems with their programs -- but in the land of software companies, it seems we could be a lot worse off. A while back I read a fascinating article about the kinds of things that go on in software companies when dealing with bugs. I looked it up for you and recommend http://headblender.com/joe/blog/archives/microsoft/001280.html Best, -WR -- ___ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] transpostion of percussion parts using mass edit tool
In a piece that I am working on with the composer, we have decided to collapse four percussion parts into two. I'm preparing to do the mass edit dump of one part into layer two of another. However, before I can even do that, I need "transpose" all of one of the percussion parts onto another space of the nonpitched staff so that they won't collide. We happened to write all all four of the percussion parts on the treble clef "C" space, so I'm wanting to move all of percussion two's part down to the "F" space, and then move percussion one up to the "E" space, to give them easy reading room. However, this became more difficult than it seemed, as the mass edit transposition dialog box won't even touch it. Not only will it not "transpose" the part down a fifth, it doesn't even come up in the edit undo/redo lists. Does anyone know a way around this? As we speak I'm manually moving all the notes of one part down, but I really don't want to have to move around ALL of the parts this way. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Michael Wittenburg ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] transposition question clarification
BTW, I'm using Finale 2003r.2. And since we need to have compatible versions, an upgrade at this time is not a viable option. Thanks! ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Putting Finale in schools [was: Re: Finale Digest, Vol13, Issue 22]
David Bailey wrote: I wouldn't be surprised to find (although I can't prove this and it is purely conjecture) that Sibelius is offering better deals to school labs, and I also wouldn't be surprised to find that Sibelius is sending free copies to undecided music teachers who are in charge of school labs, just to win the contract. Sibelius is no more easy to use out of the box these days than Finale is. But Finale isn't pouring the resources (i.e. free copies of Finale and drastically reduced multi-licenses) into capturing the school market. Gotta love this kind of logic. I don't mean to pick on you, David, but in your first paragraph you say I can't prove this and it is purely conjecture, then go on in your second paragraph to say that MakeMusic aren't pouring the same resources into capturing the school market as Sibelius are -- having established that you don't even *know* that these resources exist! In fact in my experience MakeMusic *do* work quite hard to get Finale into schools. I sat in on a shoot-out in our district between Finale and Sibelius, with a rep from each of the two companies there. They even had some students sit in on the session, and at the end of it asked the students which program they would rather use; the majority said Sibelius. Also, it seems that Sibelius is actually more expensive than Finale in an educational setting (for example, a single academic copy is $299 for Finale, and $319 for Sibelius, at the retail price, though you can get both for less if you shop around). I don't know about the lab packs, but I'd be surprised if there was much difference in price. I also wasn't offered any free copies of Sibelius when I went to the shoot-out (I had to buy mine -- I have both Finale and Sibelius on my Mac). I also seem to remember somebody saying (on this list?) that MakeMusic were offering very deep discounts for lab packs -- so copies could end up priced as low as $10 a seat, or something crazy like that. Can't remember when I heard that, but that sounds to me like a pretty serious attitude to the education market. I know we all have a pretty low opinion of software companies, but I would imagine that both MakeMusic and Sibelius engage in precisely the same kinds of tactics when trying to increase their market share, whether it's in education or any other market sector. Welcome to the world of capitalism, everybody -- and may the best man win. Best, -WR -- ___ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Crystal's problem revisited
On 22 Aug 2004, at 10:26 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: Have you tried Type Into Score, simply typing :75 WITHOUT typing a root (where 75 is the slot number of the suffix?) I use this for NC, among other things. Oh, cool. I didn't know you could do that. Has that always been the case? IIRC, when Type Into Score was first introduced, you couldn't type just a chord suffix. I know Crystal didn't ask, but I would question the need to put a repeat sign for a chord symbol only. Oh, I agree, but her client specifically asked for it. I've had lots of clients specifically request it, too, and it can be hard to persuade them it's not necessary. It's one of those bad copying conventions used in the Real Book that people pick up on... Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Putting Finale in schools
On 22 Aug 2004, at 08:28 AM, dhbailey wrote: I wouldn't be surprised to find (although I can't prove this and it is purely conjecture) that Sibelius is offering better deals to school labs, and I also wouldn't be surprised to find that Sibelius is sending free copies to undecided music teachers who are in charge of school labs, just to win the contract. I don't know if the specifics above are true or not, but the gist of what you say is absolutely true. Sibelius has VERY, VERY, VERY aggressive and effective marketing. They are constantly sending reps out to try to set up demonstrations in schools, music festivals, band camps, etc. They are persistent, too -- they're constantly calling up BMI asking Is there anything we can do for the Music Theater Workshop? Is there anything we can do for the Jazz Composers Workshop? Finale has to work harder to ensure that the notation software young musicians use first is Finale Yes. and they should leave off on their silly SmartMusic product! Absolutely not. SmartMusic has been a huge financial success for Coda. MakeMusic's own press release on their finances admits that Finale is a relatively high-margin product, so why are they spending so much energy on the lower-margin SmartMusic? Because it's a largely untapped market that they have mostly to themselves. Also see the Finale-SmartMusic integration in Fin2005. even to the point of sending around clinicians (I'm available Makemusic, are you listening?) to teach the teachers how to use the product and to offer to teach a class or two as an outside expert. Yes. It worked for Apple computers, and it appears to be working for Sibelius. Apple doesn't give away the store for free, and I don't think Finale ought to do that either. However, they *do* set up some pretty sweet deals for bulk buys, though -- I think it's Duke that bought tens of thousands of iPods to distribute to every freshman? I would hope that the Coda reps are aggressively trying to persuade schools to buy up thousands of Finale licenses -- to give away to their students, or to sell at a steep discount (far below the regular educational price). - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] font problem!
Andrew, Be careful with FontBook -- before you do anything, check out the Preferences and make sure you check Always copy font files when installing. One thing you definitely *don't* want is for your fonts to be moved from you Classic System Folder. To install a PostScript, Font using FontBook, double-click the .bmap file. FontBook will then install *both* the .bmap file and the Type 1 font file to the location you specify in the Preferences. Also, where are your troublesome fonts installed now? Are they only in your OS 9 System Folder/Fonts? Or did you copy them to the OS X side -- to Macintosh HD/Library/Fonts or ~/Library/Fonts? Are you using the same OS 9 System Folder for actually booting OS 9 *and* running Classic, or do you have two separate OS 9 System Folders? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 22 Aug 2004, at 11:44 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Aug 21, 2004, at 2:20 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Have you tried to install the Font using OS X 10.3s Font Book application? I had a problem with the Golden Age Font, and Font Book opened and installed the font fine for more under OS X. Well, I'll try that and see. I confess I had thought Font Book was only for installing the fonts it comes loaded with. But isn't a font just a drag-and-drop entity? Why does it need installing? Thanks, BTW, to all those who replied. After posting, I realized that a last-ditch solution would be to make PDFs from all my Finale 2K2 and earlier files: these would then be openable and printable in OSX while retaining the exact appearance that the original files had in OS9. If it ever comes to that, I'll have some more questions, but for now I'll fool around w. the fonts and see if FontBook installation fixes 'em. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Crystal's problem revisited
On Aug 22, 2004, at 2:59 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 22 Aug 2004, at 10:26 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: Have you tried Type Into Score, simply typing :75 WITHOUT typing a root (where 75 is the slot number of the suffix?) I use this for NC, among other things. Oh, cool. I didn't know you could do that. Has that always been the case? IIRC, when Type Into Score was first introduced, you couldn't type just a chord suffix. Hmm, I remember doing it from when Type Into Score for chords was first introduced (I went gaga nuts over this feature!) but my memory may be faulty. I know Crystal didn't ask, but I would question the need to put a repeat sign for a chord symbol only. Oh, I agree, but her client specifically asked for it. I've had lots of clients specifically request it, too, and it can be hard to persuade them it's not necessary. It's one of those bad copying conventions used in the Real Book that people pick up on... Here's another weird convention that I just learned about, apparently directly descended from the original Real Book practices. You know that it is common for libraries to omit the first article in a title for cataloguing purposes, like A Foggy Day is listed under F, not A. But in many jazz performance libraries, like the one at McGill, the titles are listed WITH the leading article, apparently because the Real Book's alphabetical organisation of songs was this way! What a terrible idea! According to the new performance materials librarian at McGill, this is quite common in jazz libraries. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] transpostion of percussion parts using mass edit tool
On Aug 22, 2004, at 2:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a piece that I am working on with the composer, we have decided to collapse four percussion parts into two. I'm preparing to do the mass edit dump of one part into layer two of another. However, before I can even do that, I need transpose all of one of the percussion parts onto another space of the nonpitched staff so that they won't collide. We happened to write all all four of the percussion parts on the treble clef C space, so I'm wanting to move all of percussion two's part down to the F space, and then move percussion one up to the E space, to give them easy reading room. However, this became more difficult than it seemed, as the mass edit transposition dialog box won't even touch it. Not only will it not transpose the part down a fifth, it doesn't even come up in the edit undo/redo lists. Does anyone know a way around this? As we speak I'm manually moving all the notes of one part down, but I really don't want to have to move around ALL of the parts this way. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Michael Wittenburg___ I have run into problems with this myself. Here is something I haven't tried (I don't know why it occurred to me while reading about your problem instead of while I> was experiencing it!) Copy the percussion part to a non-percussion staff. Transpose it there, then copy it back to the percussion staff. I think this has something to do with percussion maps and percussion notation style in the Staff Attributes box. Christopher___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] transpostion of percussion parts using mass edit tool
Christopher Smith wrote: On Aug 22, 2004, at 2:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a piece that I am working on with the composer, we have decided to collapse four percussion parts into two. I'm preparing to do the mass edit dump of one part into layer two of another. However, before I can even do that, I need transpose all of one of the percussion parts onto another space of the nonpitched staff so that they won't collide. We happened to write all all four of the percussion parts on the treble clef C space, so I'm wanting to move all of percussion two's part down to the F space, and then move percussion one up to the E space, to give them easy reading room. However, this became more difficult than it seemed, as the mass edit transposition dialog box won't even touch it. Not only will it not transpose the part down a fifth, it doesn't even come up in the edit undo/redo lists. Does anyone know a way around this? As we speak I'm manually moving all the notes of one part down, but I really don't want to have to move around ALL of the parts this way. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Michael Wittenburg___ I have run into problems with this myself. Here is something I haven't tried (I don't know why it occurred to me while reading about your problem instead of while I was experiencing it!) Copy the percussion part to a non-percussion staff. Transpose it there, then copy it back to the percussion staff. I think this has something to do with percussion maps and percussion notation style in the Staff Attributes box. Easier than that - create a staff style which changes the notation style to 'standard'; temporarily apply it to the necessary section, transpose, then clear the staff style. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Reality check (Was Re: [Finale] Re: Tuplet bug in Fin2005 demo)
At 01:16 PM 8/22/04 -0500, William Roberts wrote: Quick reality check how many software companies have you dealt with who will actually directly acknowledge a bug to you, and tell you that they'll try to fix it in a future upgrade? Top of my head... Cakewalk (when they hosted a news server; they may still, but I don't use their web forum) Systran (issued a patch immediately after I found a bug last week in their new version 5) Qbik (issued a patch 48 hours after I found two bugs last week in their new version 6) Opera (they maintain a public bug list and post patches regularly) I would have said Syntrillium, but I never found a bug in Cool Edit Pro. Adobe's got it now, so who knows. Have you ever got an acknowledgement from a human being at Microsoft about a bug in Word, say? Or from a human being at Adobe about a bug in Acrobat Reader? Or from a human being at Macromedia about a bug in Shockwave? Umm... Finale is still at the 'personal' level. If they can't acknowledge an issue, who will? Oh, right. The companies I mentioned above. :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Crystal's problem revisited
I know Crystal didn't ask, but I would question the need to put a repeat sign for a chord symbol only. It is standard to the idiom that a chord symbol continues exerting its influence until it is changed or cancelled by an NC (no chord), unless the system changes, in which case you put in the chord again. I had questioned the necessity of this myself, but this jazzhead is apparently used to seeing it and wants it in her chart. She does a number of clumsy-looking, unconventional (and improper) things. I speak about them gently, but she is convinced that what she is used to is correct. Her hand-written charts contain some errors such as too many beats in a measure as well. In the end, they are her charts for tunes that are basically jams anyway. Having these charts makes for less explaining at the session, I guess. Crystal Premo [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Crystal's problem revisited
Here's another weird convention that I just learned about, apparently directly descended from the original Real Book practices. You know that it is common for libraries to omit the first article in a title for cataloguing purposes, like A Foggy Day is listed under F, not A. But in many jazz performance libraries, like the one at McGill, the titles are listed WITH the leading article, apparently because the Real Book's alphabetical organisation of songs was this way! What a terrible idea! According to the new performance materials librarian at McGill, this is quite common in jazz libraries. I leave A Foggy Day in the A's, but knock The off of, e.g., The Physician. I got into this habit because sometimes I found that the A seemed more an integral part of the title than a The. Crystal Premo [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Fin2005: 'Before Music' at Staff Systems
Hello! I've created a plug-in to access the 'hidden' Fin2005 feature where you can set the extra 'Before Music' option individually for each staff system (the initial release of Fin2005 supports this, but doesn't have a user interface for it). The plug-in can work selectively on just some staff systems of a file, or you can process all the systems in any number of opened files (in one go!) It should have no side-effects! The page for the download is here: http://www.jwmusic.nu/freeplugins/ There's also a little documentation here: http://www.jwmusic.nu/freeplugins/systemstart2005.html Let me know if there are any problems. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] .eps in Word
On the Mac side, The quality of the EPS preview was downgraded significantly in Finale 2004. I use Finale EPS's in Word and up till then had found them very readable on screen. In 2004 they are awful. It's not a question of awful quality, it's like Maestro/Petrucci aren't installed -- ae's instead of noteheads, etc. (And Maestro/Petrucci ARE available to Word -- listed in the font list, and I've used 'em for some music symbols in text... ng Oh Ok. That's a different problem. And I had that problem once. I think it was when I was using Word OSX with an earlier version of OSX, like 10.1. THe EPS's worked in Word 98 (in classic) but not in Word v.X. Somehow it fixed itself up for me, I think it was with an OS update. WHat I was referring to in my first post, is you can see the notation, but the notes and lines are low res and blocky. -- Rocky Road - in Oz Fleeing from the Cylon tyranny, the last Battlestar, Galactica, leads a ragtag, fugitive fleet, on a lonely quest, for a shining planet known as Earth. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2005: 'Before Music' at Staff Systems
Thanks Jari for your quick reaction and for creating this plug-in. Do you have any plan to issue a Mac compatible version of the plug-in ? And I am not sure I understand the difference between what you plug-in does and the new measure-tool extra space at beginning of a measure/staff system option, except doing a whole document/batch in one go. Thanks. Éric Dussault Le 22 août 2004, à 19:30, Jari Williamsson a écrit : Hello! I've created a plug-in to access the 'hidden' Fin2005 feature where you can set the extra 'Before Music' option individually for each staff system (the initial release of Fin2005 supports this, but doesn't have a user interface for it). The plug-in can work selectively on just some staff systems of a file, or you can process all the systems in any number of opened files (in one go!) It should have no side-effects! The page for the download is here: http://www.jwmusic.nu/freeplugins/ There's also a little documentation here: http://www.jwmusic.nu/freeplugins/systemstart2005.html Let me know if there are any problems. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED].edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Crystal's problem revisited
Christopher Smith wrote: Here's another weird convention that I just learned about, apparently directly descended from the original Real Book practices. You know that it is common for libraries to omit the first article in a title for cataloguing purposes, like A Foggy Day is listed under F, not A. I know from when I worked in a library during high school, that there used to be a set of relatively standard conventions in library catologuing, of which ignoring a initial definite or indefinite article was one. Treating author names beginning with Mc as if they began with Mac was another. I know that over the years I have seen an increasing number of instances where these older customs are no longer observed. While rhe real book may not observe the older customs, I am not prepared to accept that this is either the source, or the first instance, of the change. I believe that the abandonment of these older customs is related to the computer, and intitial development of on-line catalogs on mainframe computers, and has something in common with the y2k non-phenomenon of several years ago. Memory for data storages, and for holding the part of a program which was active was so expensive that keeping programs as compact as possible was a significant design consideration. In an effort to keep code and data as compact as possible things that seem trivial to implement today, such as the algorithms to implement ignoring an initial definite or indefinite article were not included, and by the time computer memory was cheap enough to allow implementation of these older customs, there was a significant database full of records under the new scheme. Thus, in my view, the Real Book is an instance of this change, not the source. ns ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
