date:20050205

On 05 Feb 2005, at 10:41 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote:
With due respect, if you copy anything from anything, you can't call it
'clean install'.
It's just shorthand.  We all know "Archive and Install" isn't the same 
thing as wiping the HD and starting from scratch.  But it's still a 
"clean install" in the sense that all of the OS components are freshly 
installed -- as opposed to merely upgrading the OS.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] TAN: OSX Panther Upgrade

2005-02-05 Thread A-NO-NE Music

Darcy James Argue / 05.2.5 / 00:32 PM wrote:

>On 05 Feb 2005, at 12:29 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
>
>> If I do a clean install, will I have to reinstall all my utilities? 
>> Mouseworks? iKey? Stuffit? etc?
>
>No.

With due respect, if you copy anything from anything, you can't call it
'clean install'.  Clean install start with initialized volume, and
install a virgin OS.  I do it to save time on troubleshooting in a
critical schedule later.

Clean install is also a great opportunity to do selective install.  I
found many stuff I don't need to install anymore.

I also keep a list the stuff I need to install in general, such as
certain tools and office stuff.  The latest updaters are copied as a
backup on a network server so I can update reinstalled apps
systematically.  I also have a serial number database handy for restoring
them.

Once you systemize this, it's really nothing on Mac.  I reinstall Win2K
test machine every month off backup image.  I _rebuild_ clean Win2K test
machine every 6 month.  You don't want to hear how long it takes!

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Large monitor syndrome

2005-02-05 Thread A-NO-NE Music

JD / 05.2.5 / 11:59 AM wrote:

>Do any of you have this same issue, or is it me?  What I'd really like it to
>be able to hit a key combination and make the cursor REALLY BIG, and then
>have it go back to normal once the keys are released.


Would Cmd+Opt+'+' work?
If nothing happens, hit Cmd+Opt+8 to enable the feature first.

Not the same thing, but it certainly zooms around the pointer position.


-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Chuck,
Well, clearly, we cannot perceive frequencies beyond those that our 
hardware is capable of conveying to our brains.  Other animals with 
different hardware perceive a different range of frequencies.  Some 
animals (e.g., bats) even have auditory perceptual abilities we can only 
replicate with the aid of advanced technology.

I don't know if that's quite what you meant, though.
Well it would explain why sometimes when we practice what we think are 
nice sounds and consonances to our ears, our dogs howl and our cats run 
screaming from the room.  ;-)

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

Hi Chuck,
Well, clearly, we cannot perceive frequencies beyond those that our 
hardware is capable of conveying to our brains.  Other animals with 
different hardware perceive a different range of frequencies.  Some 
animals (e.g., bats) even have auditory perceptual abilities we can 
only replicate with the aid of advanced technology.

I don't know if that's quite what you meant, though.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 05 Feb 2005, at 8:27 PM, Chuck Israels wrote:
Maybe an interesting hypothetical question: does our "hardware" (inner 
ear bones etc.) react to outside stimuli that bear some relationship 
to the physical laws that govern the resonant behavior of the bones 
themselves?  Just an idle thought.  I'm in no position to explore 
this.

Chuck
On Feb 5, 2005, at 5:15 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 05 Feb 2005, at 7:51 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
But there is more and more evidence pointing to a combination of 
nature and nurture, rather than just one of those things, to explain 
more and more of human culture.
Not to split hairs, but the whole nature vs. nurture thing is a 
crappy metaphor.  Hardware vs. software is actually much better.

If the language centers in a child's brain are damaged, it doesn't 
matter how much "nurture" they get, they will never develop normal 
human language.  They simply don't have the hardware for it.

On the other hand, there are well-documented cases of children 
receiving nothing but ungrammatical input (pidgin) who nonetheless 
invent a fully grammatical language from this impoverished input -- 
this is called "creolization" -- the most-studied case involves deaf 
children in Nicaraugua, who invented their own fully grammatical sign 
language.  So even when the software (culture) is defective, the 
hardware will still attempt to do what it was designed to do.

More info here:
http://www.edge.org/documents/ThirdCulture/u-Ch.13.html
The point is that hardware supervenes on software.  The software 
(culture) depends on the hardware (human brains).  And human brains 
aren't blank slates.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

John Howell wrote:
At 7:13 PM -0500 2/5/05, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 5 Feb 2005 at 10:33, John Howell wrote:
 Since male musicians were trained in the church's choir schools--no
 girls need apply--the girls who did get a musical education usually
 got it in the home, from parents who were musicians.

Females were also trained in music in convents, but were often
cloisterd, so their music making never went outside its original
context. Bob Kendrick has done substantial work on this subject.

Any insight on a question that has puzzled me?  Why was musical 
education considered (apparently) so important for the girls and young 
women who studied with Vivaldi at the Ospedali?  One presumes that since 
orphans don't have dowries, they were being prepared for employment.  
Was music a positive factor in that?  Never have seen anything written 
about it.

John

I wonder if the preparation was to make them suitable for hire as tutors 
to young ladies, which at that time might have included teaching them 
music for the drawing room.  Just a conjecture, absolutely no research 
to back it up.

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

2005-02-05 Thread Chuck Israels

Maybe an interesting hypothetical question: does our "hardware" (inner ear bones etc.) react to outside stimuli that bear some relationship to the physical laws that govern the resonant behavior of the bones themselves? Just an idle thought. I'm in no position to explore this.

Chuck

On Feb 5, 2005, at 5:15 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:

On 05 Feb 2005, at 7:51 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:

But there is more and more evidence pointing to a combination of nature and nurture, rather than just one of those things, to explain more and more of human culture.

Not to split hairs, but the whole nature vs. nurture thing is a crappy metaphor. Hardware vs. software is actually much better.

If the language centers in a child's brain are damaged, it doesn't matter how much "nurture" they get, they will never develop normal human language. They simply don't have the hardware for it.

On the other hand, there are well-documented cases of children receiving nothing but ungrammatical input (pidgin) who nonetheless invent a fully grammatical language from this impoverished input -- this is called "creolization" -- the most-studied case involves deaf children in Nicaraugua, who invented their own fully grammatical sign language. So even when the software (culture) is defective, the hardware will still attempt to do what it was designed to do.

More info here:

http://www.edge.org/documents/ThirdCulture/u-Ch.13.html

The point is that hardware supervenes on software. The software (culture) depends on the hardware (human brains). And human brains aren't blank slates.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

On 05 Feb 2005, at 7:51 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
But there is more and more evidence pointing to a combination of 
nature and nurture, rather than just one of those things, to explain 
more and more of human culture.
Not to split hairs, but the whole nature vs. nurture thing is a crappy 
metaphor.  Hardware vs. software is actually much better.

If the language centers in a child's brain are damaged, it doesn't 
matter how much "nurture" they get, they will never develop normal 
human language.  They simply don't have the hardware for it.

On the other hand, there are well-documented cases of children 
receiving nothing but ungrammatical input (pidgin) who nonetheless 
invent a fully grammatical language from this impoverished input -- 
this is called "creolization" -- the most-studied case involves deaf 
children in Nicaraugua, who invented their own fully grammatical sign 
language.  So even when the software (culture) is defective, the 
hardware will still attempt to do what it was designed to do.

More info here:
http://www.edge.org/documents/ThirdCulture/u-Ch.13.html
The point is that hardware supervenes on software.  The software 
(culture) depends on the hardware (human brains).  And human brains 
aren't blank slates.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

On 5 Feb 2005 at 19:54, Darcy James Argue wrote:

> No one is arguing that the Western system of functional harmony is
> "natural" or innate. . . .

Perhaps no one in this particular discussion has explicitly argued 
that, but there are lots of people who *do* believe exactly that, and 
that body of research has, in fact, been cited (at least 
elliptically) in this discussion.

> . . . Only that there might well be some innateness to
> more general concepts of "consonance" and "dissonance."

I reject the word "innate." There are explanations of why, 
acoustically, certain intervals tend to be perceived as exceptional,  
but that is *not* the same thing as "innateness."

And the people who make a habit of writing about this subject tend to 
make assertions well beyond what you've made (even excusing the 
unwarranted use of the word "innate"). When you join that side of the 
argument, it's hard for those familiar with the debate to know 
whether you're in agreement with the wingnuts or not.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

That's a straw man, Owain.  Of course English isn't "natural" (read: 
innate), but the common fundamental grammar (Chomsky's "universal 
grammar") that makes human language possible in the first place is 
clearly innate, and, like the man says, universal.

No one is arguing that the Western system of functional harmony is 
"natural" or innate.  Only that there might well be some innateness to 
more general concepts of "consonance" and "dissonance."

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 05 Feb 2005, at 7:20 PM, Owain Sutton wrote:

David W. Fenton wrote:
And when you eliminate the concept of dissonance in the musical text 
(i.e., the dissonances are never resolved), then you no longer have a 
distinction between the two types of intervals beyond the culturally 
defined meanings the listeners bring to the table.
This is a good explanation of the situation - unfortunately it's 
beyond the distance that even musicians are prepared to go to question 
whether their understanding of music is inate or acquired.  I do find 
is scary, that people can react so vociferously against any suggestion 
that the major/minor tonality that *feels* natural to them is actually 
not something inherent or natural.  They wouldn't react the same way 
if I told them that English wasn't the 'natural' language, or that 
base-10 wasn't 'natural' maths (assuming we got that far in the maths 
class :p )   But I find the defensiveness that surrounds western 
tonality quite scary, and very puzzling.
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

On Feb 5, 2005, at 7:20 PM, Owain Sutton wrote:

David W. Fenton wrote:
And when you eliminate the concept of dissonance in the musical text 
(i.e., the dissonances are never resolved), then you no longer have a 
distinction between the two types of intervals beyond the culturally 
defined meanings the listeners bring to the table.
This is a good explanation of the situation - unfortunately it's 
beyond the distance that even musicians are prepared to go to question 
whether their understanding of music is inate or acquired.  I do find 
is scary, that people can react so vociferously against any suggestion 
that the major/minor tonality that *feels* natural to them is actually 
not something inherent or natural.  They wouldn't react the same way 
if I told them that English wasn't the 'natural' language, or that 
base-10 wasn't 'natural' maths (assuming we got that far in the maths 
class :p )   But I find the defensiveness that surrounds western 
tonality quite scary, and very puzzling.

There IS a certain part of music, language, AND base ten math that IS 
natural. Base ten is natural to beings with ten fingers (why else would 
the concept have sprung up independently in many different cultures?) 
In English, like many other languages, "ma" sounds are associated with 
parents, being among the first sounds that babies make naturally (those 
with lips and septums, anyway!) And of course, in music, perfect fifths 
tend to dominate, even among cultures that DON'T have the means to 
count the frequencies. Now, just because those are easy and common ways 
of doing those things, it does NOT mean that they are universal, not by 
any means! But there is more and more evidence pointing to a 
combination of nature and nurture, rather than just one of those 
things, to explain more and more of human culture.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

On 5 Feb 2005 at 19:48, John Howell wrote:

> At 7:13 PM -0500 2/5/05, David W. Fenton wrote:
> >On 5 Feb 2005 at 10:33, John Howell wrote:
> >
> >>  Since male musicians were trained in the church's choir
> >>  schools--no girls need apply--the girls who did get a musical
> >>  education usually got it in the home, from parents who were
> >>  musicians.
> >
> >Females were also trained in music in convents, but were often
> >cloisterd, so their music making never went outside its original
> >context. Bob Kendrick has done substantial work on this subject.
> 
> Any insight on a question that has puzzled me?  Why was musical 
> education considered (apparently) so important for the girls and young
> women who studied with Vivaldi at the Ospedali?  One presumes that
> since orphans don't have dowries, they were being prepared for
> employment.  Was music a positive factor in that?  Never have seen
> anything written about it.

Something to keep them busy?

I really have no idea!

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

2005-02-05 Thread John Howell

At 7:13 PM -0500 2/5/05, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 5 Feb 2005 at 10:33, John Howell wrote:
 Since male musicians were trained in the church's choir schools--no
 girls need apply--the girls who did get a musical education usually
 got it in the home, from parents who were musicians.
Females were also trained in music in convents, but were often
cloisterd, so their music making never went outside its original
context. Bob Kendrick has done substantial work on this subject.
Any insight on a question that has puzzled me?  Why was musical 
education considered (apparently) so important for the girls and 
young women who studied with Vivaldi at the Ospedali?  One presumes 
that since orphans don't have dowries, they were being prepared for 
employment.  Was music a positive factor in that?  Never have seen 
anything written about it.

John
--
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

On Feb 5, 2005, at 7:02 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 5 Feb 2005 at 9:56, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Feb 4, 2005, at 7:06 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 4 Feb 2005 at 8:23, Christopher Smith wrote:
Right. No dissonance, no consonance. It's not about that any more.
You have correctly understood, grasshopper!
Well, then, you disagree with Andrew, who said (still included in
the quotes above):
On 3 Feb 2005 at 12:07, Andrew Stiller wrote:
In any event, "emancipation of the dissonance" certainly does
not imply elimination of the consonant.
I was disagreeing with that, as not resolving dissonance means it's
no different from consonance, which means there is no longer a
distinction that can be maintained except by external reference to
rules that are not themselves demonstrated in the way the music
itself behaves.
It looks like all of us are in agreement from where I'm sitting.
Harmonic dissonance and consonance may be quantifiable and measurable
(ratios of frequencies and all that) but there are other factors
affecting how we react to it, such as culture, experience, and
context.
My point is simply that we can explain why "consonant" intervals (Q:
why do these discussions always ignore chords of 3, 4, 5, 6 notes? A:
because the simplistic explanation breaks down when you get away from
pure 2-note intervals)

That's just wrong. I'm sorry, but the reason we (I, that is to say) are 
confining the discussion to dyads is because it's easier to explain. 
Nothing breaks down at all when you add notes, and there is plenty of 
support for formulas calculating harmonic dissonance according to 
interval content, taking octaves and inversions into account, starting 
with Hindemith. I have my own (simplified) methods, because I find 
dicking around with spreadsheets, calculators, and the like contrary to 
the frame of mind I need to compose well, and the human ear (mine 
anyway) is not discerning enough to be bothered by the hair-splitting 
decisions made that way.


differ from "dissonant" (more shared lower
harmonics), but what happens after that is culturally (and
contextually) defined. That is, different musical cultures respond to
the acoustic characteristics of the dyads differently.
Of course I agree with you there. I just said that. For example, my 
world feels comfortable when the harmony contains at least 4 notes. I 
learned that, at the expense of a lot of time and critical listening.


And when you eliminate the concept of dissonance in the musical text
(i.e., the dissonances are never resolved), then you no longer have a
distinction between the two types of intervals beyond the culturally
defined meanings the listeners bring to the table.
That's the point of atonalism, to remove the gravitational tendencies 
associated with the intervals. Everyone who comes to atonal music from 
tonal music has to check their tonal baggage at the door, or else they 
concentrate on the wrong things and miss enormous parts of the music, 
or are just confused.

Sure, it happened to me at first. Listening to Webern's piano music 
(can't remember the opus number) I kept hearing three-note jazz grips 
(a common way of voicing jazz chords) that indicated dominant 13th 
chord and minor 13th chords (for the serial guys, they were 0,1,6 cells 
in various inversions, voiced as tritone-fourth and fourth-tritone). I 
couldn't get away from that at first, and the music just confused me. 
Once I was able to hear them as divorced from a key (in tonal 
free-fall) it sounded a lot more settled and "normal" to me.

Chrisotpher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT Schoenberg

2005-02-05 Thread Dean M. Estabrook

Did  you mean, "amanuensis?"
Dean
On Feb 5, 2005, at 4:24 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
amenuensis
I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the 
journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other students I 
have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that 
there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of 
humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage  
from  our children’s curricula.

Dean M. Estabrook
Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT Schoenberg

On 6 Feb 2005 at 0:16, Owain Sutton wrote:

> David W. Fenton wrote:
> > On 5 Feb 2005 at 15:06, Ken Moore wrote:
> >>In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>owainsutton.co.uk writes:
> >>
> >>>And Schoenberg *didn't* transform the Wagnerian influence out of
> >>>recognition?
> >>
> >>If you follow his development you can see the transformation.  If
> >>you start with a serial work, it is easy to miss the connection. . .
> > 
> > For me, the immediate predecessor always seemed to me to be to
> > *Brahms*, not Wagner. Verklärte Nacht seems to me to follow straight
> > on from late Brahms, and Schoenberg's extensions to tonality then
> > follow from that point, into 12-tone tonality.
> 
> A very interesting point.  One that I'm going to do a bit of thinking
> (and listening!) about

I believe that this was the way Schoenberg himself saw it. It was, in 
fact, the way S's last amenuensis, Richard Hoffman, saw it (he was a 
professor at Oberlin while I was still a student, and two of my best 
friends studied with him, which basically meant studying Richard 
Hoffman).

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff


David W. Fenton wrote:
And when you eliminate the concept of dissonance in the musical text 
(i.e., the dissonances are never resolved), then you no longer have a 
distinction between the two types of intervals beyond the culturally 
defined meanings the listeners bring to the table.

This is a good explanation of the situation - unfortunately it's beyond 
the distance that even musicians are prepared to go to question whether 
their understanding of music is inate or acquired.  I do find is scary, 
that people can react so vociferously against any suggestion that the 
major/minor tonality that *feels* natural to them is actually not 
something inherent or natural.  They wouldn't react the same way if I 
told them that English wasn't the 'natural' language, or that base-10 
wasn't 'natural' maths (assuming we got that far in the maths class :p ) 
  But I find the defensiveness that surrounds western tonality quite 
scary, and very puzzling.
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT Schoenberg


David W. Fenton wrote:
On 5 Feb 2005 at 15:06, Ken Moore wrote:

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
owainsutton.co.uk writes:

And Schoenberg *didn't* transform the Wagnerian influence out of
recognition?
If you follow his development you can see the transformation.  If you
start with a serial work, it is easy to miss the connection. . . .

For me, the immediate predecessor always seemed to me to be to 
*Brahms*, not Wagner. Verklärte Nacht seems to me to follow straight 
on from late Brahms, and Schoenberg's extensions to tonality then 
follow from that point, into 12-tone tonality.

A very interesting point.  One that I'm going to do a bit of thinking 
(and listening!) about
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

On 5 Feb 2005 at 10:33, John Howell wrote:

> Since male musicians were trained in the church's choir schools--no
> girls need apply--the girls who did get a musical education usually
> got it in the home, from parents who were musicians.

Females were also trained in music in convents, but were often 
cloisterd, so their music making never went outside its original 
context. Bob Kendrick has done substantial work on this subject.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT Schoenberg

On 5 Feb 2005 at 15:06, Ken Moore wrote:

> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> owainsutton.co.uk writes:
> 
> >And Schoenberg *didn't* transform the Wagnerian influence out of
> >recognition?
> 
> If you follow his development you can see the transformation.  If you
> start with a serial work, it is easy to miss the connection. . . .

For me, the immediate predecessor always seemed to me to be to 
*Brahms*, not Wagner. Verklärte Nacht seems to me to follow straight 
on from late Brahms, and Schoenberg's extensions to tonality then 
follow from that point, into 12-tone tonality.

Wagner doesn't seem to me to have much to do with it!

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

On 5 Feb 2005 at 9:56, Christopher Smith wrote:

> On Feb 4, 2005, at 7:06 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
> 
> > On 4 Feb 2005 at 8:23, Christopher Smith wrote:
> >>
> >> Right. No dissonance, no consonance. It's not about that any more.
> >>
> >> You have correctly understood, grasshopper!
> >
> > Well, then, you disagree with Andrew, who said (still included in
> > the quotes above):
> >
> > On 3 Feb 2005 at 12:07, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> >> In any event, "emancipation of the dissonance" certainly does
> >> not imply elimination of the consonant.
> >
> > I was disagreeing with that, as not resolving dissonance means it's
> > no different from consonance, which means there is no longer a
> > distinction that can be maintained except by external reference to
> > rules that are not themselves demonstrated in the way the music
> > itself behaves.
> 
> It looks like all of us are in agreement from where I'm sitting.
> Harmonic dissonance and consonance may be quantifiable and measurable
> (ratios of frequencies and all that) but there are other factors
> affecting how we react to it, such as culture, experience, and
> context.

My point is simply that we can explain why "consonant" intervals (Q: 
why do these discussions always ignore chords of 3, 4, 5, 6 notes? A: 
because the simplistic explanation breaks down when you get away from 
pure 2-note intervals) differ from "dissonant" (more shared lower 
harmonics), but what happens after that is culturally (and 
contextually) defined. That is, different musical cultures respond to 
the acoustic characteristics of the dyads differently.

And when you eliminate the concept of dissonance in the musical text 
(i.e., the dissonances are never resolved), then you no longer have a 
distinction between the two types of intervals beyond the culturally 
defined meanings the listeners bring to the table.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Re: BBC

2005-02-05 Thread M. Perticone

you need realplayer (old versions won't work) if you're a windows user.
however you'll see the 'bbc radio player', which is only a sort of front end
for realaudio.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio3_aod.shtml?radio3/hearandnow   will
take you to it and to 'hear and now'.
programme for this week starting today night will include sciarrino,
haubenstock-ramati, and lots of olga newirth. available daily.

regards,
marcelo


> Further, with a program like Wiretap (Mac -- don't know the Windows ones),
> you can time-shift for offline listening.
>
> So you don't have to hate anyone. :)
>
> David Froom
>
>
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] TGTools Update Groups problem

The whole point of TGTools Update Groups is that one doesn't need to 
remove optimization. Otherwise there wouldn't be anything to update (as 
unoptimized systems take their groups from scroll view anyway).

Johannes
dhbailey wrote:
Johannes Gebauer wrote:
Perhaps I am missing something. Here is what I want to do:
Two parts in my already optimized score have their own bracket. I want 
to get rid of the bracket, and ideally of the group. So I change it in 
Scroll View, go to page view and go TGTools Update Groups. But it 
doesn't seem to do anything.

I have tried deleting the group, or just changing the bracket style to 
none. Nothing works. What am I missing?

Johannes

Don't you need to remove optimization to do that?
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] TGTools Update Groups problem

Johannes Gebauer wrote:
Perhaps I am missing something. Here is what I want to do:
Two parts in my already optimized score have their own bracket. I want 
to get rid of the bracket, and ideally of the group. So I change it in 
Scroll View, go to page view and go TGTools Update Groups. But it 
doesn't seem to do anything.

I have tried deleting the group, or just changing the bracket style to 
none. Nothing works. What am I missing?

Johannes
Don't you need to remove optimization to do that?
--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT File Downloading

2005-02-05 Thread Dean M. Estabrook

Darcy:
Thanks I'll try it. Right now, my Broadband is acting up, and  
everything is like super slow, so I think I'll wait until that is  
settled, then give it a go.

Dean
On Feb 4, 2005, at 6:45 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Dean,
Sounds like you need to reinstall the Macromedia Flash Player:
http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi? 
P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 04 Feb 2005, at 9:11 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
Hey, Darcy:
It opend previsously via Explorer (5.2) I believe. The whole message  
I get when I now try to open it is:

Internet Explorer doesn't know how to handle the type of file you  
have selected. You can save this file to your disk, or you can  
configure a helper application to open it.

MIME Type : application/x-shcokwave-flash
File Name: UntilThen.swf
On Feb 4, 2005, at 6:03 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Dean,
What kind of file is this?  What application did it open with  
before?  Do you have a link?

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 04 Feb 2005, at 8:53 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
Ok ... the other day someone suggested I download OS X.3.7 to  
improve my life. So, I did. Now, a file I had just downloaded a few  
minutes prior to my new OS download, and which had played  
beautifully (it's a great slide show of Iraq pics with the BYU  
Choir singing in the background), will no longer open as it did  
with the prior OS. It just gives me a message that I can configure  
a helper application to open it, or do something else, I can't  
remember what. Help!

Dean
I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed  
the journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other  
students I have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed  
and outraged that there are those who would knowingly  
disenfranchise generations of humans by excising the practice and  
inculcation of an entire heritage  from  our children’s curricula.

Dean M. Estabrook
Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the  
journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other students I  
have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged  
that there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations  
of humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire  
heritage  from  our children’s curricula.

Dean M. Estabrook
Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the  
journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other students I  
have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that  
there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of  
humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage   
from  our children’s curricula.

Dean M. Estabrook
Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] Re: BBC

2005-02-05 Thread David Froom

> 
>> 1) I am currently listening to a broadcast of a concert by the BBC
>> Symphony Orchestra.
> 
> Gawd I hate you. :)
> 
> Dennis

The BBC has most of that stuff (all of it?) available for anyone who has an
internet connection.  Here is the link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/listen/

Click on the Radio Player (Radio on Demand), and then Classical.  You'll get
a large selection of shows that change weekly.  "Hear and Now" is
exclusively contemporary music.  "In Concert" also has a lot of new music.

Further, with a program like Wiretap (Mac -- don't know the Windows ones),
you can time-shift for offline listening.

So you don't have to hate anyone. :)

David Froom


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] TAN: OSX Panther Upgrade

I don't actually know any straight answer, but here is what I would do: 
Use Carbon Copy Cloner to clone your System drive. Boot from it to make 
sure it works.

The update your system. If you find anything isn't working, you can 
clone back from the old drive. Carbon Copy Cloner really makes this 
process very simple.

When I got my new computer only a few weeks ago, all I had to do was run 
 Apples Setup assistant, which allowed me to import all my settings and 
documents, and applications from a Firewire HD I had previously cloned 
from the old computer (which didn't support FW Target Mode). You could 
probably just as easily do that, by cloning, then wiping your HD and 
reinstalling. Make sure you have two clones, in case something goes wrong.

If you want me to try anything with the printer driver, tell me exactly 
what, and I will see what I can do. I am not sure at which stage the 
problem starts, and I don't have a super large format printer (only A3, 
but I am nowhere near it for some time).

Johannes
Robert Patterson wrote:
Okay, so I ordered the Panther upgrade. With the ed. discount it isn't 
too expensive. But before loading it I'd some reassurance that it will 
solve my problem.

Apparently Jaguar's print driver can't recognize oversize custom page 
sizes. When I try to print 13x20 sheets (from Finale or via Adobe Reader 
from Finale), the OS apparently erroneously ratchets the size down to 
11x17. Has anyone else seen this behavior before? If so, did Panther fix 
it?

Also, I'd like some assurances about the upgrade process itself. Will it 
preserve all my settings? Will I have to upgrade any utilities like 
TinkerTool? Does it touch my Classic folder(s)?

The scariest part about upgrading is there is no going back, short of a 
complete hard disk restore. Gah!

--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] Re: a finale challenge (OT)

2005-02-05 Thread jef chippewa

From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
 >So, when did they introduce smart shape vegetables?
You should see the carrots.
how about these veggies?
http://www.gemueseorchester.org
--
.jef.chippewa.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
.shirling.&.neueweise.
http://newmusicnotation.com
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT Schoenberg


Ken Moore wrote:
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
owainsutton.co.uk writes:

And Schoenberg *didn't* transform the Wagnerian influence out of 
recognition?

If you follow his development you can see the transformation. 
I know, that was my point ;)
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Dissonance [was: Garritan etc.]

2005-02-05 Thread Daniel Wolf

An excellent overview of these issues, with some nice audio examples of 
how alternative timbres can influence consonance-dissonance issues, can 
be found in:

_Tuning, Timbre, Spectrum, Scale_  by William A. Sethares, Springer-Verlag
_
_Daniel Wolf
_
_
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Large monitor syndrome

2005-02-05 Thread Carl Dershem

JD wrote:
I know many of you are using multiple and large monitors to work in Finale.
I myself have two, a Cinema Display and an Apple 17" flat display.  Whenever
I work in Finale across both monitors, I keep 'losing' the cursor.  The damn
thing is a crosshair when over the active document and I can't find it at
times, and it's really bogging down my workflow.  I've tried hitting
Cmd-Opt-Cntl to change it to the hand cursor, but that's not much better.
Do any of you have this same issue, or is it me?  What I'd really like it to
be able to hit a key combination and make the cursor REALLY BIG, and then
have it go back to normal once the keys are released.
Yeah, I know.  I dreaming, right?
I'm currently using dual monitors - one 19" Viewsonic (at 1600x1200) and 
a 17" Sony (at 1280 x 1024), and have found that one useful trick is to 
turn on "mouse trails".  For me, at least, this makes the cursor much 
more apparent when moved.  I also use the "3D" cursor set (in Windows), 
which makes normal cursors stand out a bit more.  The corsshairs aren't 
affected, but others sometimes are.

Of course, I find it more likely to lose the cursor in Photoshop than in 
Finale, but in finale, just moving it up and down makes it much more 
apparent most of the time.

Luck!
cd
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/#
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] TAN: OSX Panther Upgrade

Oh, I forgot to tell you how to access this option.  It's under (IIRC) 
"Archive and Install -> Preserve Users and Network Settings."

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 05 Feb 2005, at 12:32 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Robert,
On 05 Feb 2005, at 12:29 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
If I do a clean install, will I have to reinstall all my utilities? 
Mouseworks? iKey? Stuffit? etc?
No.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] TAN: OSX Panther Upgrade

Hi Robert,
On 05 Feb 2005, at 12:29 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
If I do a clean install, will I have to reinstall all my utilities? 
Mouseworks? iKey? Stuffit? etc?
No.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] TAN: OSX Panther Upgrade

2005-02-05 Thread Robert Patterson

If I do a clean install, will I have to reinstall all my utilities? 
Mouseworks? iKey? Stuffit? etc?

That's way too much trouble if so.
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Robert,
Apparently Jaguar's print driver can't recognize oversize custom page 
sizes. When I try to print 13x20 sheets (from Finale or via Adobe 
Reader from Finale), the OS apparently erroneously ratchets the size 
down to 11x17. Has anyone else seen this behavior before? If so, did 
Panther fix it?

I have no trouble printing to custom page sizes in OS X 10.3.7.  (Be 
sure to upgrade to 10.3.7 as soon as you install Panther from the CDs!) 
 Here's my process -- in any application, choose Page Setup, and make 
sure your printer is selected (not "Any Printer").  Then, in "Settings," 
choose "Custom Paper Size," set up your 13x20 sheet, and save.  "13x20" 
should now show up under "Paper Size" in all of your Page Setup 
dialogs.  Also, make sure you have downloaded the latest OS X drivers 
for your printer.

Also, I'd like some assurances about the upgrade process itself. Will 
it preserve all my settings?

Yes -- the best choice, actually, is to do a clean install that also 
preserves users and network settings.  This will leave you with a backup 
of your 10.2.x system, and also perform a clean install of 10.3, and 
then bring in all of your user settings and preferences from 10.2.  I 
highly recommend it.

Will I have to upgrade any utilities like TinkerTool?

Yes.
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/11967
I prefer Cocktail to TinkerTool, though.  TinkerTool can be a little 
flaky, in my experience, though I haven't used it in a long time.

Does it touch my Classic folder(s)?

I'm not sure.  The first time you run Classic, it *might* ask to update 
some system resources in your Classic System Folder.  I don't *think* it 
will do this, but I'm not 100% certain.  If this is a concern, it's 
probably best to back up your Classic System Folder.

The scariest part about upgrading is there is no going back

If you choose "Preserve Users and Network Settings," it's (relatively) 
easy to go back.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

--
Robert Patterson
http://RobertGPatterson.com
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Dissonance [was: Garritan etc.]

Hi Ken,
That's all absolutely correct, and speaks to what I was saying about 
timbre (and, as you say, register) playing as much of a factor as pitch 
in the perception of consonance/dissonance.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 05 Feb 2005, at 9:36 AM, Ken Moore wrote:
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Andrew 
Stiller
writes:
I would agree that there is no hard-and-fast natural boundary between
the dissonant and the consonant, and that culture plays a big role in
drawing such arbitrary boundaries.
I hope that's the modern consensus.
However, I would think that
anyone, ever, from anywhere, would agree that a minor  second is much
more dissonant than a perfect fifth, and that those two extreme
intervals are absolutely dissonant and absolutely consonant
respectively, and without regard to musical context.
Not in general.  Yes to the first, when the timbres are harmonic, and
the register is middle C - 1 to + 3 octaves.  Perceptual psychologists
have done experiments suggesting that a very low perfect fifth can be 
as
dissonant as a high minor second, and non-harmonic timbres can be
designed to make any interval sound as dissonant as you like.  The
perfect fifth is not a consonance on the metallophones of the gamelan.

Experiment also shows that the most dissonant interval between two sine
waves is register dependent and (IIRC) is 3/4 of a tone above top C.
--
Ken Moore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/
I reject emails > 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want 
to send one
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Large monitor syndrome

2005-02-05 Thread Steve Gibons

how 'bout:
http://www.boinx.com/mousepose/
or
http://www.macchampion.com/pinpoint_features.shtml
steve
On Feb 5, 2005, at 10:59 AM, JD wrote:
I know many of you are using multiple and large monitors to work in 
Finale.
I myself have two, a Cinema Display and an Apple 17" flat display.  
Whenever
I work in Finale across both monitors, I keep 'losing' the cursor.  
The damn
thing is a crosshair when over the active document and I can't find it 
at
times, and it's really bogging down my workflow.  I've tried hitting
Cmd-Opt-Cntl to change it to the hand cursor, but that's not much 
better.

Do any of you have this same issue, or is it me?  What I'd really like 
it to
be able to hit a key combination and make the cursor REALLY BIG, and 
then
have it go back to normal once the keys are released.

Yeah, I know.  I dreaming, right?
***
J.D. Thomas
ThomaStudios
West Linn  OR
http://www.thomastudios.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
On the other hand... you have different fingers.
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] TGTools Update Groups problem

Perhaps I am missing something. Here is what I want to do:
Two parts in my already optimized score have their own bracket. I want 
to get rid of the bracket, and ideally of the group. So I change it in 
Scroll View, go to page view and go TGTools Update Groups. But it 
doesn't seem to do anything.

I have tried deleting the group, or just changing the bracket style to 
none. Nothing works. What am I missing?

Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] TAN: OSX Panther Upgrade

Hi Robert,
Apparently Jaguar's print driver can't recognize oversize custom page 
sizes. When I try to print 13x20 sheets (from Finale or via Adobe 
Reader from Finale), the OS apparently erroneously ratchets the size 
down to 11x17. Has anyone else seen this behavior before? If so, did 
Panther fix it?
I have no trouble printing to custom page sizes in OS X 10.3.7.  (Be 
sure to upgrade to 10.3.7 as soon as you install Panther from the CDs!) 
 Here's my process -- in any application, choose Page Setup, and make 
sure your printer is selected (not "Any Printer").  Then, in 
"Settings," choose "Custom Paper Size," set up your 13x20 sheet, and 
save.  "13x20" should now show up under "Paper Size" in all of your 
Page Setup dialogs.  Also, make sure you have downloaded the latest OS 
X drivers for your printer.

Also, I'd like some assurances about the upgrade process itself. Will 
it preserve all my settings?
Yes -- the best choice, actually, is to do a clean install that also 
preserves users and network settings.  This will leave you with a 
backup of your 10.2.x system, and also perform a clean install of 10.3, 
and then bring in all of your user settings and preferences from 10.2.  
I highly recommend it.

Will I have to upgrade any utilities like TinkerTool?
Yes.
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/11967
I prefer Cocktail to TinkerTool, though.  TinkerTool can be a little 
flaky, in my experience, though I haven't used it in a long time.

Does it touch my Classic folder(s)?
I'm not sure.  The first time you run Classic, it *might* ask to update 
some system resources in your Classic System Folder.  I don't *think* 
it will do this, but I'm not 100% certain.  If this is a concern, it's 
probably best to back up your Classic System Folder.

The scariest part about upgrading is there is no going back
If you choose "Preserve Users and Network Settings," it's (relatively) 
easy to go back.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] Large monitor syndrome

2005-02-05 Thread JD

I know many of you are using multiple and large monitors to work in Finale.
I myself have two, a Cinema Display and an Apple 17" flat display.  Whenever
I work in Finale across both monitors, I keep 'losing' the cursor.  The damn
thing is a crosshair when over the active document and I can't find it at
times, and it's really bogging down my workflow.  I've tried hitting
Cmd-Opt-Cntl to change it to the hand cursor, but that's not much better.

Do any of you have this same issue, or is it me?  What I'd really like it to
be able to hit a key combination and make the cursor REALLY BIG, and then
have it go back to normal once the keys are released.

Yeah, I know.  I dreaming, right?

***

J.D. Thomas
ThomaStudios
West Linn  OR

http://www.thomastudios.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

***

On the other hand... you have different fingers.


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] TAN: OSX Panther Upgrade

2005-02-05 Thread JD

on 2/5/05 8:38 AM, Robert Patterson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Also, I'd like some assurances about the upgrade process itself. Will it
> preserve all my settings? Will I have to upgrade any utilities like
> TinkerTool? Does it touch my Classic folder(s)?
> 
> The scariest part about upgrading is there is no going back, short of a
> complete hard disk restore. Gah!

Robert,

Per Hiro's advice earlier on this list, is it possible for you to install
the Panther upgrade to another drive/partition.  This will let you 'ease'
into the upgrade and if necessary, you could go back to Jaguar temporarily
should the need arise.

***

J.D. Thomas
ThomaStudios
West Linn  OR

http://www.thomastudios.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

***

When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] TAN: OSX Panther Upgrade

2005-02-05 Thread Robert Patterson

Okay, so I ordered the Panther upgrade. With the ed. discount it isn't 
too expensive. But before loading it I'd some reassurance that it will 
solve my problem.

Apparently Jaguar's print driver can't recognize oversize custom page 
sizes. When I try to print 13x20 sheets (from Finale or via Adobe Reader 
from Finale), the OS apparently erroneously ratchets the size down to 
11x17. Has anyone else seen this behavior before? If so, did Panther fix it?

Also, I'd like some assurances about the upgrade process itself. Will it 
preserve all my settings? Will I have to upgrade any utilities like 
TinkerTool? Does it touch my Classic folder(s)?

The scariest part about upgrading is there is no going back, short of a 
complete hard disk restore. Gah!

--
Robert Patterson
http://RobertGPatterson.com
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

2005-02-05 Thread John Howell

At 11:44 AM -0500 2/4/05, Phil Daley wrote:
This brought to mind a thing that happened when I was in high 
school.  The HS band director also taught music history which I 
didn't take, but my girl friend did.  She told me this story:

The teacher said that before 1900 (1950, something like that) there 
were no major female composers. This annoyed them greatly, so when 
he assigned a paper on "a major composer", several of the girls in 
the class "invented" a female Russian composer who lived in the 
early 1800s.  They all submitted papers based on this fictitious 
women, complete with dates, repertoire, etc.  He was quite taken 
aback that he had never heard of this "composer" up until he figured 
out it was a hoax.  Good thing that he had a good sense of humor ;-)
OK, just for the record (and I think this information is accurate):
The earliest known women composers whose music has survived date from 
the 12th century:  Beatrix, Countess of Dia (one song), who was a 
Trobairix (female Trobador) in southern France, and St. Hildegard von 
Bingen (about 70 pieces of music, including the major large-scale 
work "Ordo Virtutum."

Since male musicians were trained in the church's choir schools--no 
girls need apply--the girls who did get a musical education usually 
got it in the home, from parents who were musicians.  That's the case 
with Francesca Caccini, one of two daughters of Giulio Caccini (a 
member of the Florentine Camerata and thus one of the "inventors" of 
opera) who became professional singers, and composer of the first 
Italian opera to be produced outside Italy.  There were other 17th 
century women composers as well.  Elizabeth-Claude Jaquet de la 
Guerre was a contemporary of Francois Couperin le Grand, and I much 
prefer her music to his.  The 19th century gives us, just for 
starters, Fanny Mendelssohn Henzel and Clara Schumann (both, again, 
from musical families).

The femininst scholars have turned up many more, and some darned good 
music that's been ignored for too long.  Of course the kicker is how 
one defines "a major composer."  As a job description it was indeed a 
man's world, as were the worlds of science, medicine, law, 
scholarship and business, for far too long, so there were no 
acceptable jobs available to women that included composition.  That 
did wait until after 1900.

John
--
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] Dissonance [was: Garritan etc.]

2005-02-05 Thread Ken Moore

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Andrew Stiller
writes:
>I would agree that there is no hard-and-fast natural boundary between 
>the dissonant and the consonant, and that culture plays a big role in 
>drawing such arbitrary boundaries.

I hope that's the modern consensus.

>However, I would think that 
>anyone, ever, from anywhere, would agree that a minor  second is much 
>more dissonant than a perfect fifth, and that those two extreme 
>intervals are absolutely dissonant and absolutely consonant 
>respectively, and without regard to musical context.

Not in general.  Yes to the first, when the timbres are harmonic, and
the register is middle C - 1 to + 3 octaves.  Perceptual psychologists
have done experiments suggesting that a very low perfect fifth can be as
dissonant as a high minor second, and non-harmonic timbres can be
designed to make any interval sound as dissonant as you like.  The
perfect fifth is not a consonance on the metallophones of the gamelan.

Experiment also shows that the most dissonant interval between two sine
waves is register dependent and (IIRC) is 3/4 of a tone above top C.

-- 
Ken Moore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/
I reject emails > 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want to send one
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] OT BBC SO

2005-02-05 Thread Ken Moore

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dennis
Bathory-Kitsz writes:

>Gawd I hate you. :)

OK, I'll stop gloating now. (:-)>

-- 
Ken Moore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/
I reject emails > 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want to send one
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] OT Schoenberg

2005-02-05 Thread Ken Moore

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
owainsutton.co.uk writes:

>And Schoenberg *didn't* transform the Wagnerian influence out of 
>recognition?

If you follow his development you can see the transformation.  If you
start with a serial work, it is easy to miss the connection.  Whether he
was _stylistically_ influenced by Wagner is totally irrelevant to my
argument, which is that he thought it was necessary to invent a new
harmonic system because Wagner had "used up" the old one, whereas other
composers showed that there were lots of new possibilities in music that
required somewhat less radical departures from traditional harmony.  S.
wanted a music to maintain German cultural supremacy, and I suspect he
would have been unenthusiastic about these other ways forward.

-- 
Ken Moore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/
I reject emails > 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want to send one
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

On Feb 4, 2005, at 9:39 PM, Richard Yates wrote:
This whole field of research has always seemed hopelessly mired in a
priori assumptions and inadequate study design. I consider the people
who claim "scientific" basis for tonality to be the phrenologists of
modern musical scholarship.
And don't get me started on the bloody prehistoric flute hoax. David
Fenton
...or, for me, the derivation of the Western major scale from upper 
partials
in the overtone series, e.g. "Subtonic Partials - The seventh and 
fourteenth
partials are the out-of-tune
subtonic degrees found in the third octave (7th partial) and fourth 
octave
(14th partial) of a given series. It may help to think of the seventh
partial as a simple interval to remember its scale degree although it 
is
actually a minor 21st from the fundamental."

Richard Yates
We were through this last year, I remember. One theory, which I rather 
like, holds that the 4th and 7th degrees of the major scale are ALTERED 
versions of those notes from the harmonic series, which is why they 
have so much tension on them in major keys. The major pentatonic scale, 
which is one very common scale around the world, avoids the 4th and 7th 
degrees altogether.

The same theory supposes that a minor triad is heard as an ALTERED 
major triad. The basis is still the harmonic series, but it isn't a 
law.

The scale as derived from the harmonic series is not universal (Arabic, 
South Asian, and Indonesian scales come to mind as exceptions), but 
then it doesn't have to be. It only has to be more common than random 
selection in order to be interesting as a theory.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT Mozilla for OSX

2005-02-05 Thread Brad Beyenhof

On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 06:36:16 -0500 (EST), Eden - Lawrence D. wrote:

> How do I get Firefox to auto fill forms?  Internet Explorer made this
> easy, but I can't find where it is hidden in Firefox.

It does that automatically... no special sonfiguration required.
However, it won't be able to access your Safari keychain or anything.
It will only remember the form informtation you've entered into
Firefox itself.

Also, it will not AutoFill an entire form the way some other prowsers
do (as far as I am aware). It will only provide previous form entries
in a drop-down once you've begun typing them in, but usually only a
character or two will get you to the right one.

-- 
Brad Beyenhof
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com
FinaleIRC (come chat!): http://finaleirc.com
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

On Feb 4, 2005, at 7:06 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 4 Feb 2005 at 8:23, Christopher Smith wrote:
Right. No dissonance, no consonance. It's not about that any more.
You have correctly understood, grasshopper!
Well, then, you disagree with Andrew, who said (still included in the
quotes above):
On 3 Feb 2005 at 12:07, Andrew Stiller wrote:
In any event, "emancipation of the dissonance" certainly does
not imply elimination of the consonant.
I was disagreeing with that, as not resolving dissonance means it's
no different from consonance, which means there is no longer a
distinction that can be maintained except by external reference to
rules that are not themselves demonstrated in the way the music
itself behaves.
It looks like all of us are in agreement from where I'm sitting. 
Harmonic dissonance and consonance may be quantifiable and measurable 
(ratios of frequencies and all that) but there are other factors 
affecting how we react to it, such as culture, experience, and context.

My old pal Tom Allen (former fellow bass trombonist), who does a 
morning radio show on CBC, called this the "noise factor." If we hear 
something that goes beyond what we expect, then it is "noise" to us. If 
it doesn't go far enough, then it is boring. The definition of 
dissonance has changed over time, in that we accept more "noise" than 
listeners did a century ago. Some of us today accept more or less noise 
than other listeners do. We all want SOME noise, otherwise life is 
boring.

A funny illustrative story about noise and form:
I was in a recording studio some time back, recording some (what I 
thought was modern, high-energy) jazz, and at the end of our session we 
were listening to the playback when the engineer for the next session 
came in. He breathed a deep sigh, and said, "Ah, how relaxing! Quite a 
difference from what I'm working on next!" We kind of looked at him 
quizzically, and he put on a CD of his last session. It was "death 
metal". I don't know if you are familiar with the genre, but it 
involves a couple of guitars, bass, and drums, and there are some very 
specific things that have to be there, and they all were. Basically, 
the VU meters swung completely to the right, the needles right against 
the pins, and didn't move. A wave of dense sound hit us, with kind of a 
"SHUGGAH-SHUGGAH-SHUGGAH-SHUGGAH" beat barely distinguishable, but very 
distorted and with no discernable key or pitch at all, and a Satan-like 
voice, also very distorted, began declaiming something unintelligible. 
Our eyes popped open, and the engineer smiled at our reaction. "Wait 
until we get about two-thirds of the way through." he said. Sure 
enough, at the two-thirds mark the VU meters needles swung completely 
to the left as the music abruptly stopped, almost making our ears pop 
with the sudden drop in pressure. In the silence, the drummer hit a 
tiny splash cymbal and choked it, and then the Armageddon started up 
again to finish off the remaining third of the song.

That experience went a long way to convincing me that "noise" is surely 
in the ears of the listener!

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

Owain Sutton wrote:
[snip]>
There's a simple response to anybody who recites this kind of stuff - 
ask them to explain the equivalence of major and minor triads.
Oh, man, that's New Math stuff -- best done in restaurants, where, as we 
learned from Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy, numbers never add up the 
same way twice!  :-)

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] a finale challenge

Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 04:22 PM 2/3/05 +0100, Daniel Wolf wrote:
Which version of Finale was it that included stencils for cutting clefs 
and noteheads out of raw potatoes? Those were the days of real engraving!

Alas, we could not keep the engraving set after it was opened:
http://maltedmedia.com/photos/maestro-at-dinner.jpg
Yumm! All eaten! :)
Dennis
You weren't supposed to EAT the fonts from the Spud-notator(tm)!
I don't think MakeMusic will replace them without a charge -- they had 
to pay a hefty license fee to use the yukongold.ttf.  Next thing you'll 
be eating the spaghetti-cables for the Mic-notator(tm)!

Music is supposed to nourish the SOUL, not the BODY!  ;-)

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

Owain Sutton wrote:

There have been some pretty intense commentaries about this
tension-release technique being sexually analogous and
gender-specific, and that in recent years, women composers have
emancipated their writing from the build-to-climax model implicit in
harmonic and architectural tension-release, and that women listeners
are drawn to the sound of the newer paradigm.


I'm just hoping that this whole description is a joke.  If it's not, 
then God help us.
God can't help us -- she's laughing way too hard at this discussion to 
be of any assistance.  :-)

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] a finale challenge (OT)

Bruce K H Kau wrote:
Well, to pick at nits here ... wouldn't all those potatoes print backwards?
It's a hidden Finale capabilty to print music which advanced theorists 
look on as culturally backwards -- other notation programs simply refuse 
to print it at all, instead printing Hah! Hah! Hah! on the page -- the 
finale Spud-Notator(tm) allows printing even of backwards music.

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] OT Mozilla for OSX

2005-02-05 Thread Eden - Lawrence D.

Mac Mavens:

How do I get Firefox to auto fill forms?  Internet Explorer made this
easy, but I can't find where it is hidden in Firefox.

Thanks




___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

Glad you mentioned her independently from my post!
The case of Fanny Hensel is a bit more complex, because at least in the
music scene she had quite a bit of fame, and she undoubtedly influenced
others.
Still, the problem clearly is the definition of "major composer". If it
is just a question of fame, probably no woman composer until today
deserves this label. I would argue that fame has rather little to do
with it...
Whatever the case, had she lived a little longer I think she would have 
been the first really famous female composer, but that is certainly 
debatable.

Johannes
David W. Fenton wrote:
Fanny Mendelssohn's songs were silently published under her brother's 
name.

He was a major composer, the songs are considered just as brilliant 
as his other songs.

Does that make her a major composer?
The concept of "major composer" is useless in a time period in which 
no female composer, however brilliant, would have been allowed to 
become a "major composer."

There were female composers just as brilliant and gifted as the best 
male composers. But they were never given the opportunity to develop 
or distribute their music.

--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff