[Finale] FinWin 2005b - switching between layers with Italian Keyboard and typing multiple tuplets in speedy entry
I don't know if it is a problem related to my keyboard but the command alt+34 to switch between layers in speedy entry works only if I deactivate and reactivate everytime the numlock on the numeric keypad. No other way to dothat without being forced to use the mouse? Another question: is there a faster way to input multiple tuplets in speedy entry? Thank you Marcello ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tuplet notation
Lon Price wrote: I'm working on a piece by Paganini for a client, and his handling of tuplets got me wondering about the standards for notating them. This piece is a theme and variations, and when he writes sextuplets the first two show the numbers, and then he leaves them off, which I know is common practice. I suggest that a highly relevant question here is, Whose common practice? It seems to me that this might be the common practice of the publisher, the editor, or engraver, and unless one has examined the autograph, should not be assumed to necessarily be the reflection of the practice or preference of the composer. I am of the opinion that some of the conventions of notation are actually typographer's conventions, dating from the period when music was generated with handset type. Leaving off the numeral in all but the first few tuplets might be (though I do not have definitive information to confirm whether it is or is not) might be an example of this. In this instance, the typographer had a insufficient quantity of the italic numeral 6 to mark every tuplet, and so marked just enough of the tuplets to indicate the first ones, even if Paganini had religiously put a six in each and every sextuplet. Similarly the use of sixteenths instead of thirty-seconds may be dictated in this instance by typographical considerations. I would pose a more general question: some practices, like suppressing numerals on all but the first few tuplets, made a certain amount of sense when other considerations came to play, but these considerations do not apply in computer typesetting, as there is an infinite number of italic numeral sixes, or for that matter, an infinite supply of secondary beams, in the virtual typecase. In such cases, it seems to me that if it makes the music more understandable, though not at the expense of readability, that maybe such considerations should be re-evaluated. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007
At 6/27/2006 06:14 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Jun 27, 2006, at 5:48 PM, Owain Sutton wrote:
Put me in the cynic camp
Authorization Improvements are NOT a feature.
The group/bracket stuff seems more like bug-fix level stuff than real
advances. As does the cross-staff implementation, especially the
augmentation dots ('Enhanced default positioning' my arse, it's just
that it's now correct) And I definitely always saw vertical collision
issues as a problem with buggy software, rather than as a
feature-in-waiting.
Enharmonic Spelling in Chromatically Transposed Parts. Ten quid says
it still screws up quarter-tones.
Updated Playback Controls - woo hoo! Lets party like it's Win 98!!
I'm happy to see some plain old bugs fixed. Let them stick out their
chests and brag about it - it's what we've all been screaming for now
for quite a while.
I agree. BUT...
IMO, you shouldn't have to pay for bug fixes.
Phil Daley AutoDesk
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley
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Re: [Finale] Dotted slurs...
If you absolutely have to make a slur for a special situation that needs a different dashing setup, then you can do so using a shape expression. You'll have to create this in the shape editor, (which as most of us know is a little fickle and difficult to work with). Here though, you'd be able to create an arc and dash it and set it to whatever thickness you want. -Scot On 6/24/06, Éric Dussault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Le 06-06-24 à 17:46, Kim Patrick Clow a écrit : Is there a way to increase the hashing/dotted effect to make it more noticeable? With the smart shape tool you can not increase it on a case by case basis. It is a global setting in the smart shape options. Specifically Dash length and space that you could modify to accomodate shorter slurs. It will also affect built-in dotted lines in other smart shape tools. Eric Dussault ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Scot Hanna-Weir Music Engraver A-R Editions, Inc. Music Educator --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Notation; was RE: Tremolos
In reply to various comments: ligatures may have survived, but I cannot think of any examples exceeding a pair of notes. Also, colouration consisted of black and white notation (simple to do when printing black ink on white paper) but red (and blue) notation disappeared because of the complex process of several passes with different coloured inks. Throughout most periods compositional changes drive notational changes, I agree, but I do believe notation drove composition at the beginning of the sixteenth century, and I think the same may happen now. There are often discussions on this list about significant functional improvements that ought to be made to Finale and all we get are pretty things that do not address fundamental errors in the original data model of Finale. These will forever be broken as designed and there are currently no signs on the horizon of new products that are not limited by the same flaws. Regards, Michael Lawlor mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinWin 2005b - switching between layers with Italian Keyboard and typing multiple tuplets in speedy entry
On Jun 28, 2006, at 4:21 AM, Marcello Noia wrote: I don't know if it is a problem related to my keyboard but the command alt+34 to switch between layers in speedy entry works only if I deactivate and reactivate everytime the numlock on the numeric keypad. No other way to do that without being forced to use the mouse? Hmm, no PC in front of me here, but I seem to remember alt-up arrow or alt-down arrow scrolls between layers in Windows (shift arrow on the Mac). Another question: is there a faster way to input multiple tuplets in speedy entry? Faster than what? If you hit Caps Lock before defining the tuplet, then you can just play notes on the MIDI keyboard and they will all enter as the same tuplet value until you turn off Caps Lock. That's pretty fast. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007
Owain Sutton: Put me in the cynic camp Oh come on. Fin07 offers perhaps the single biggest enhancement in the history of the product (linked parts) and all anyone can think of is to whine about the peripheral stuff? Authorization Improvements are NOT a feature. Just to be clear about terminology. All behavior that is according to the design spec is a feature, including authorization. What authorization is not (from the user perspective) is a benefit. It is most important to distinguish between benefits and features, because it becomes much easier to distinguish which stakeholder(s) a feature benefits. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007
On Jun 28, 2006, at 10:21 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: Owain Sutton: Authorization Improvements are NOT a feature. Just to be clear about terminology. All behavior that is according to the design spec is a feature, including authorization. What authorization is not (from the user perspective) is a benefit. It is most important to distinguish between benefits and features, because it becomes much easier to distinguish which stakeholder(s) a feature benefits. Well-put. So I would view a single authorisation as an improvement over multiple ones, since I don't have to mess around with two different apps and companies. I have two computers, plus school machines, and that got to be a real hassle, let me tell you. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re:OTmusic getting louder - was Trombones
The arms race is true in orchestras, but can be much more true in live pop and jazz. .. About ten or 12 years ago, the Tempataions did a pair of outdoor concerts with us. They had synths doubling all the orchestra parts at , and sound guys would come back and tell us that we couldn't be heard, so we needed to jam the mics in our bells and play as loud as possible. The volume was deafening on stage. .. One song (I think it might have been Ain't Too Proud To Beg, but I'm not sure) has a break in the middle with a trombone unison sixth position C. It was pencilled in to double it down an octave, and marked with as many f's as could fit on the page. We played the octaves as loud as humanly possible, but, again, they were doubling everything with hugely amplified keyboards (I take that as a sign that they have played with orchestras they don't trust to come in, or that they play the show without brass and don't want to mess with playing any differently with or without - but can't they adjust their own _volume_ when they have an orchestra so that the orchestra can be heard?) .. After the second show, I left to drive overnight up to Cleveland for the trombone workshop. On the way up , I heard the original recording of the above mentioned song on the radio. My jaw dropped open - it sounded like chamber music by comparison - and the trombone Cs were unison only, very small bore, and light. The recording sounded like about 12 instruments, tops. (And no synths, of course.) .. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra ___ Chuck Israels wrote: Hi Jim et al, This issue doesn't come up at my school, where most of the students lack a concept of basic breathing and support. My reference has been professional circumstances. Three brief anecdotes: Many years ago, I kept my friend Dave Taylor company while he auditioned for the bass trombone spot in the BSO (it took place at Tanglewood, and I was spending the summer there). Dave was one of the three biggest sounding players, but the loudest guy (Halliburton, I think was his name) got the job. To my ears, other differences were minimal. All of the top applicants were phenomenal. We used to have an LP (since disappeared) of Sousa music here in the school music library that was a revelation to me. It was made by musicians in Sousa's family, his children, I believe, and it sounded much clearer and more lightly orchestrated (fewer instruments on each part), and more lightly played, than anything I'd been used to hearing - almost what we think of as Mozartean in effect. It made me appreciate the music in new ways. I played on a recording date in 1963 with JJ Johnson - arrangements written by JJ for himself, 4 other trombones (Urbie Green and Lou McGarity, on tenors, Tommy Mitchell and Paul Faulise on bass trombones, and a rhythm section that included Hank Jones and Walter Perkins, now available on Verve CD V6-8530). The arrangements and players were wonderful. The close miked recording sounds quite good to me now, and the effect is somewhat louder than I remember the sound in the room, but the impact and feeling of immersion in the glory of the vibrating air in the studio, even if not quite as loud as the recording can be played, was orders of magnitude more beautiful, and it took my breath away. Maybe some of that can be put through microphones, recordings, and loudspeakers, but there is something about the sound in the room, un-amplified and un-interfered with, that doesn't survive the process. Chuck On Jun 27, 2006, at 3:44 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: Chuck and list... I am also of the opinion that things are getting louder, especially in orchestras...I had a discussion with Harvey Phillips a while back about it, and he feels the same way. Compared to 50 or so years ago, the low brass are gigantic in bore size. What was a bass trombone back in the day is now merely a medium-large-bore tenor, and the tubas many people use in orchestras are downright frightening in size. Harvey had no trouble BLENDING with an orchestra on a 3/4 size Conn tuba with only 4 valves. Is it just me, or is BLENDING a declining skill? What's it like at your college, Chuck? In the recent past, a couple of well-known orchestral tubists retired, probably due at least in part to chop damage caused by playing so loud for so long. I occasionally visit the major midwestern conservatory about an hour from my house and am shocked by the loudness of the brass playing in the ensembles. As I may have mentioned in an earlier post, I was amazed when I played the euphonium that had belonged to the Sousa Band member. It's a real peashooter compared to what I play now, and it was a day or 2 of practice before I quit overblowing it. Even though my history encompasses only 54 years and a day job, I never thought I'd see a day where the brass had to be
RE: [Finale] Notation; was RE: Tremolos
At 07:11 PM 6/27/06 -0400, David W. Fenton wrote: But it seems to me that in the historical example, there was no resulting limitation on the musical expression of the composers, as I believe Dennis is suggesting is the case with the impoverished notational vocabulary of primitive notation software (I would note that the Finale shape designer, however maligned it may be by all of us who've been frustrated by its idiosyncracies, allows the creation of just about any symbol or shape you'd desire; that doesn't cover all elements of notational innovation, but it at least shows, I think, a degree of planning for some flexibility on the part of Finale's early designers). The key words are your last ones: Finale's early designers -- emphasis on the 'early'. The advanced features of Finale lay dormant for years, including the shape designer, key signatures, and time signatures. Some, such as metrical independence of parts or metrics-free entry, were never begun. It's prettier and easier, but in terms of contemporary notation per se, there is little I can do in Finale 2006 that I couldn't do over 13 years ago (albeit much less conveniently) in Finale 2.2. Much of what can be done remains kludgy and requires significant learning, which is a barrier to contemporary notation's more widespread use when Finale and Sibelius dominate the marketplace. Before music software, I taught the range of notation from traditional notes through graphical notation -- in elementary school. In those same schools today, they are using Sibelius, pounding out plain old-fashioned notes in plain old-fashioned rhythms. That's all they have (and teachers certainly aren't going to make their jobs any harder by rejecting the use of computers). I don't think the influence of conservatism in notation software can be underestimated. Future history may have some interesting reflections. Dennis -- Please participate in my latest project: http://maltedmedia.com/waam/ My blog: http://maltedmedia.com/bathory/waam-blog.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Notation; was RE: Tremolos
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 June 2006 15:02 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: RE: [Finale] Notation; was RE: Tremolos In reply to various comments: ligatures may have survived, but I cannot think of any examples exceeding a pair of notes. Absolutely - at least, not with movable type. And there's cases in Petrucci where longer ligatures were broken into two-note groupings, an arrangement which then persists in later (manuscript) sources. The limitations of his system had a profound influence, obliterating complex ligatures. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re:OTmusic getting louder - was Trombones
Of course, the Funk Bros. (who played on all the original Motown recordings before the label relocated to LA) were some of Detroit's finest jazz players. They would track for Motown during the day (for which they were paid a flat rate of $10/song) and play in the jazz clubs at night. This was before the days of isolation booths and recordings built up one track at a time, let alone today's auto-tune and groove quantization -- the band had to do it in one, and it it had to sound balanced in the room. (Vocals were overdubbed later.) Even 10-12 years ago, The Temptations was just a brand, bearing little to no resemblance to the individuals that actually recorded Ain't Too Proud To Beg and the rest. They're effectively a Temptations tribute band, with all of the bad taste that entails. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 28 Jun 2006, at 11:44 AM, Raymond Horton wrote: The arms race is true in orchestras, but can be much more true in live pop and jazz. .. About ten or 12 years ago, the Tempataions did a pair of outdoor concerts with us. They had synths doubling all the orchestra parts at , and sound guys would come back and tell us that we couldn't be heard, so we needed to jam the mics in our bells and play as loud as possible. The volume was deafening on stage. .. One song (I think it might have been Ain't Too Proud To Beg, but I'm not sure) has a break in the middle with a trombone unison sixth position C. It was pencilled in to double it down an octave, and marked with as many f's as could fit on the page. We played the octaves as loud as humanly possible, but, again, they were doubling everything with hugely amplified keyboards (I take that as a sign that they have played with orchestras they don't trust to come in, or that they play the show without brass and don't want to mess with playing any differently with or without - but can't they adjust their own _volume_ when they have an orchestra so that the orchestra can be heard?) .. After the second show, I left to drive overnight up to Cleveland for the trombone workshop. On the way up , I heard the original recording of the above mentioned song on the radio. My jaw dropped open - it sounded like chamber music by comparison - and the trombone Cs were unison only, very small bore, and light. The recording sounded like about 12 instruments, tops. (And no synths, of course.) .. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tuplet notation
At 4:00 AM -0500 6/28/06, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: Lon Price wrote: I'm working on a piece by Paganini for a client, and his handling of tuplets got me wondering about the standards for notating them. This piece is a theme and variations, and when he writes sextuplets the first two show the numbers, and then he leaves them off, which I know is common practice. I am of the opinion that some of the conventions of notation are actually typographer's conventions, dating from the period when music was generated with handset type. Leaving off the numeral in all but the first few tuplets might be (though I do not have definitive information to confirm whether it is or is not) might be an example of this. In this instance, the typographer had a insufficient quantity of the italic numeral 6 to mark every tuplet, and so marked just enough of the tuplets to indicate the first ones, even if Paganini had religiously put a six in each and every sextuplet. Similarly the use of sixteenths instead of thirty-seconds may be dictated in this instance by typographical considerations. I may not completely understand the flow of technological changes, which is why I ask this question. The period when music was generated with handset type, to the best of my knowledge, was the 16th and early 17th centuries. By Paganini's lifetime (1782-1840), was music not being printed from engraved copper plates? And real engraving, with a sharp steel implement, not punched? If so, anything that could be engraved could be placed on the printing plates. My own take, having spent much of my life hand-copying music, is that dropping the tuplet numerals once the note values and bowing have been well established for a passage is simply a time-saving shortcut of the kind that hand-copyists had been using for a very long time, and are still using for hand-copied music. I would pose a more general question: some practices, like suppressing numerals on all but the first few tuplets, made a certain amount of sense when other considerations came to play, but these considerations do not apply in computer typesetting, as there is an infinite number of italic numeral sixes, or for that matter, an infinite supply of secondary beams, in the virtual typecase. In such cases, it seems to me that if it makes the music more understandable, though not at the expense of readability, that maybe such considerations should be re-evaluated. Of course that is true. In manuscript I used a LOT of one-bar and two-bar (and sometimes four-bar) ditto marks, but it is child's play today to copy the notation in those measures throughout the passage. But that may not be the clearest way to indicate consecutive measures with a repetitive pattern, Which brings up other decisions, when using ditto marks: (1) Should the figure be re-notated at the beginning of each line? (My answer, an unequivocal NO!) (2) Should milepost numbers be shown every 4, 8, etc. bars of dittos, when each bar is clearly numbered in the first place? (My answer, an unequivocal YES!!) John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007 Announced!!
Oh yeah, I missed the AND. Sorry, and thanks. Dean On Jun 27, 2006, at 6:58 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: On Jun 27, 2006, at 8:16 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Yo, guys and girls ... inre MacFin07, will it run ok on my ten month old G5, as opposed to the new intel processor, and has anyone (e.g., Darcy) Beta Tested this thing? On the website they claim it runs natively on Intel AND Power PC based computers, so the answer to the first question is yes. I don't know who beta tests, so no answer there. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord Definition Question!
Hi, Everyone - I sent this question a few days ago and haven't gotten a response yet - does anyone know how to do this?! Thanks! On Jun 26, 2006, at 10:31 PM, Jacki Barineau wrote: Okay - now that I've got this chord figured out... :) How can I tell Finale what notes to play for each chord? What I've tried seems to only let you alternate the root or bass if I'm understanding it correctly. Well, obviously for chords like this and even Maj9ths I have to ADD notes to the root triad - so is there some way to tell Finale the spelling of the chords? Thanks so much! Jacki ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re:OTmusic getting louder - was Trombones
On Jun 27, 2006, at 6:24 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: OK, Andrew, I am not nearly as knowledgeable as you about older music, but I am surprised by the 1910 - 1935 comparison. I don't doubt that you have good information about this, and I am curious about it. I was thinking mainly of orchestral music. Orchestras 1900-1914 were *huge*, with WW in 5s, 8 (French) horns, two timpanists, etc. It is for this orchestra that the _Rite of Spring_ was written, as was _Gurrelieder_ and most of the Mahler symphonies. After WW I nobody could afford to support an orchestra that big, and ensembles were scaled back to the now standard dimensions. Composition followed accordingly: compare Mahler to Hindemith. On the pop side, in 1910 every little town in America had a 12-30 - piece wind band, loud enough to be heard outdoors by large crowds on weekends and holidays in clement weather. The radio and phonograph put paid to these town bands, and popular music came increasingly to be listened to indoors, at, of course, a much lower volume. Home music-making was totally dominated by the piano in 1910--but by 1935, once again, the radio and phonograph had severely cut into piano sales. A modern stereo system can outblast a piano, but I don't think the early ones could. - Around 1985, I complained in a concert review that the word electroacoustic meant too damn loud. I don't think things have gotten any louder since then. They couldn't possibly. --Andrew Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord Definition Question!
Jacki, I really don't recommend enabling chord playback in Finale. You will never get anything resembling acceptable voice-leading that way. It's very easy to enter your own playback-only piano part or guitar part with proper voice-leading, hidden by slash marks or placed in a hidden layer. If you absolutely must enable chord playback, you can consult the manual on chord playback definitions. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 28 Jun 2006, at 1:20 PM, Jacki Barineau wrote: Hi, Everyone - I sent this question a few days ago and haven't gotten a response yet - does anyone know how to do this?! Thanks! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Notation; was RE: Tremolos
At 10:02 AM -0400 6/28/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In reply to various comments: ligatures may have survived, but I cannot think of any examples exceeding a pair of notes. Agreed, 2-note ligatures with opposite propriety are the large majority. Throughout most periods compositional changes drive notational changes, I agree, but I do believe notation drove composition at the beginning of the sixteenth century, and I think the same may happen now. I've been trying to think of examples of this, and I come up empty. Would you care to elaborate? Yes, that was the period in which typeset music joined manuscript music (which it NEVER completely replaced!), but the point of the typesetting was to duplicate the highest quality hand copying at a drastically reduced cost. I honestly cannot think of any example of notational practice driving stylistic change, which in any case was ongoing from about 1430 through about 1620 (without even attempting to address the huge changes in both style and notation in the early 17th century!). John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re:OTmusic getting louder - was Trombones
On 28 Jun 2006, at 1:23 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: Around 1985, I complained in a concert review that the word electroacoustic meant too damn loud. I don't think things have gotten any louder since then. They couldn't possibly. In the recorded world, they have, absolutely. Since the dawn of the CD era (when there was a brief but quickly abandoned trend towards exploiting the CD's extended dynamic range), there's been an arms race of compression going on. There's enormous pressure for mastering engineers to make the record hotter so it stands out on the radio, or at home compared to other CDs played at the same volume setting on your stereo, and (recently) so it still hits hard when transformed into an MP3 and played on crappy iPod headphones. If you rip any recent pop CD and look at the waveform, it's going to be more or less a solid brick the whole way through. This phenomenon is not limited to the pop world, though -- jazz and classical recordings are all much more compressed than they were 10 years ago, and the average dB level is much, much higher. More info: http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/imperfect- sound-forever.htm - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007
At 2:21 PM + 6/28/06, Robert Patterson wrote: Owain Sutton: Put me in the cynic camp Oh come on. Fin07 offers perhaps the single biggest enhancement in the history of the product (linked parts) and all anyone can think of is to whine about the peripheral stuff? Yes, an enhancement that finally catches up with Composer's Mosaic 1994! Of course with a great deal more in the way of user control, which Mosaic was never big on, but after a 12-year wait one would hope for that! John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re:OTmusic getting louder - was Trombones
At 11:44 AM -0400 6/28/06, Raymond Horton wrote: The arms race is true in orchestras, but can be much more true in live pop and jazz. .. About ten or 12 years ago, the Tempataions did a pair of outdoor concerts with us. They had synths doubling all the orchestra parts at , and sound guys would come back and tell us that we couldn't be heard, so we needed to jam the mics in our bells and play as loud as possible. The volume was deafening on stage. .. [snip] After the second show, I left to drive overnight up to Cleveland for the trombone workshop. On the way up , I heard the original recording of the above mentioned song on the radio. My jaw dropped open - it sounded like chamber music by comparison - and the trombone Cs were unison only, very small bore, and light. The recording sounded like about 12 instruments, tops. (And no synths, of course.) One problem is that many (most?) audio engineers and mixists are not very good musicians, learned their trade mixing rock and country bands, and are suffering from advanced hearing loss. When I found out that I had a progressive high frequency hearing loss (no rock bands, just your average trumpet and trombone players!!) I impressed on my mixist that I would tell him what I heard and what I wanted to hear, but that he must use his own best judgement in interpreting my instructions. We attempted to keep our SPL below 90 dB, and still got occasional complaints from little old ladies whose hearing was MUCH too good! Our music technology program is too new too have a track record for our graduates in the industry, but we do insist that they be performing musicians, sing or play in ensembles, do senior recitals, etc., and take all the same theory and history courses as the performance and music ed majors. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re:OTmusic getting louder - was Trombones
Chuck Israels wrote: I played on a recording date in 1963 with JJ Johnson - arrangements written by JJ for himself, 4 other trombones (Urbie Green and Lou McGarity, on tenors, Tommy Mitchell and Paul Faulise on bass trombones, and a rhythm section that included Hank Jones and Walter Perkins, now available on Verve CD V6-8530). Chuck: That wasn't by any chance the Trombones Incorporated album with East Coast players vs. West Coast players, was it? Incredible players, incredible charts, and a tutorial in the difference between East Coast and West Coast Jazz at about that time. The close miked recording sounds quite good to me now, and the effect is somewhat louder than I remember the sound in the room, but the impact and feeling of immersion in the glory of the vibrating air in the studio, even if not quite as loud as the recording can be played, was orders of magnitude more beautiful, and it took my breath away. Yeah! Sinatra insisted that his last recordings for (Decca?) be done live, and because he had an attitude problem with them he sang through each song exactly once. And I was on tour with Hank Mancini just after he had gone BACK to live recording with everyone in the studio after having done tracking for several albums, and he commented that he would never go back to tracking! John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tuplet notation
On 28 Jun 2006 at 4:00, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: Lon Price wrote: I'm working on a piece by Paganini for a client, and his handling of tuplets got me wondering about the standards for notating them. This piece is a theme and variations, and when he writes sextuplets the first two show the numbers, and then he leaves them off, which I know is common practice. I suggest that a highly relevant question here is, Whose common practice? It seems to me that this might be the common practice of the publisher, the editor, or engraver, and unless one has examined the autograph, should not be assumed to necessarily be the reflection of the practice or preference of the composer. . . . The kind of looseness of rhythmic notation that was described is absolutely standard for the period in both printed editions and MS. . . . I am of the opinion that some of the conventions of notation are actually typographer's conventions, dating from the period when music was generated with handset type. . . . Type? I don't know the exact source, but Paganini would be likely to be engraved (or lithography created from an engraved original). . . . Leaving off the numeral in all but the first few tuplets might be (though I do not have definitive information to confirm whether it is or is not) might be an example of this. In this instance, the typographer had a insufficient quantity of the italic numeral 6 to mark every tuplet, and so marked just enough of the tuplets to indicate the first ones, even if Paganini had religiously put a six in each and every sextuplet. . . Type was not involved. Punches were, and these would have been used as often as the engraver deemed necessary. I know MSS and prints from the period and what was described in the Paganini was standard practice. . . . Similarly the use of sixteenths instead of thirty-seconds may be dictated in this instance by typographical considerations. It makes a certain sense, actually, given that what the passage is about (if I've understood correctly) is filling in an interval with scales. What matters is not the exact rhythm of the subdivisions, but that one perceives that one has to fit all the notes into a certain time span. I would pose a more general question: some practices, like suppressing numerals on all but the first few tuplets, made a certain amount of sense when other considerations came to play, but these considerations do not apply in computer typesetting, as there is an infinite number of italic numeral sixes, or for that matter, an infinite supply of secondary beams, in the virtual typecase. In such cases, it seems to me that if it makes the music more understandable, though not at the expense of readability, that maybe such considerations should be re-evaluated. I think that your major premise (that leaving out repeated items came from the limitations of typeset music) is WRONG, as typeset music was a small proportion of all the music in the 18th and 19th centuries -- most of it was engraved using punches, and so it was much more like manuscript than it was like typesetting. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Notation; was RE: Tremolos
On Jun 28, 2006, at 10:02 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In reply to various comments: ligatures may have survived, but I cannot think of any examples exceeding a pair of notes. A page of Mouton's _Messe d'Allemaigne_, as printed by Attaignant and reproduced in _Pierre Attaignant: Royal Printer of Music_ by Daniel Heartz, displays several 3-note ligatures, in a variety of forms. Also, colouration consisted of black and white notation (simple to do when printing black ink on white paper) but red (and blue) notation disappeared because of the complex process of several passes with different coloured inks. Though this is true in the long term, it certainly didn't happen quickly enough to have influenced notation. The volume referenced above includes at least one Attaignant facsimile showing mixed red-and-black printing not in the music, but in the words of a title and dedication. Since the printing issues are the same, this shows that mid-16th c. printers were perfectly prepared to handle red notation if it were handed them. That it was not cannot, therefore, be attributed to any pressure on notational conventions by technology. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tuplet notation
On 28 Jun 2006 at 12:55, John Howell wrote: At 4:00 AM -0500 6/28/06, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: Lon Price wrote: I'm working on a piece by Paganini for a client, and his handling of tuplets got me wondering about the standards for notating them. This piece is a theme and variations, and when he writes sextuplets the first two show the numbers, and then he leaves them off, which I know is common practice. I am of the opinion that some of the conventions of notation are actually typographer's conventions, dating from the period when music was generated with handset type. Leaving off the numeral in all but the first few tuplets might be (though I do not have definitive information to confirm whether it is or is not) might be an example of this. In this instance, the typographer had a insufficient quantity of the italic numeral 6 to mark every tuplet, and so marked just enough of the tuplets to indicate the first ones, even if Paganini had religiously put a six in each and every sextuplet. Similarly the use of sixteenths instead of thirty-seconds may be dictated in this instance by typographical considerations. I may not completely understand the flow of technological changes, which is why I ask this question. The period when music was generated with handset type, to the best of my knowledge, was the 16th and early 17th centuries. . . . There was also Breitkopf's new typesetting in the 18th century, which was used by BH (I just saw such an edition yesterday) and also by some publishers in Berlin who bought type from Breitkopf. But it was definitely the minority in the 18th century, and did not last into the 19th, so far as I'm aware. . . . By Paganini's lifetime (1782-1840), was music not being printed from engraved copper plates? And real engraving, with a sharp steel implement, not punched? If so, anything that could be engraved could be placed on the printing plates. Cutting plus punches. Numbers would likely be put in with punches, not with a cutting tool. Of course, lithography also arose during Paganini's lifetime, and that was sometimes done from engraved originals. My own take, having spent much of my life hand-copying music, is that dropping the tuplet numerals once the note values and bowing have been well established for a passage is simply a time-saving shortcut of the kind that hand-copyists had been using for a very long time, and are still using for hand-copied music. I would agree. And engraving is very much like hand copying in a number of ways, much more so than it is like typesetting. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Notation; was RE: Tremolos
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Stiller Sent: 28 June 2006 19:33 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Notation; was RE: Tremolos On Jun 28, 2006, at 10:02 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In reply to various comments: ligatures may have survived, but I cannot think of any examples exceeding a pair of notes. A page of Mouton's _Messe d'Allemaigne_, as printed by Attaignant and reproduced in _Pierre Attaignant: Royal Printer of Music_ by Daniel Heartz, displays several 3-note ligatures, in a variety of forms. Would these be formed simply by placing the type for individual notes alongside one another, rather than having specific ligature type? Petrucci certainly had the latter, but only for a limited number of two-note ligatures. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Notation; was RE: Tremolos
At 8:05 PM +0100 6/28/06, Owain Sutton wrote: A page of Mouton's _Messe d'Allemaigne_, as printed by Attaignant and reproduced in _Pierre Attaignant: Royal Printer of Music_ by Daniel Heartz, displays several 3-note ligatures, in a variety of forms. Would these be formed simply by placing the type for individual notes alongside one another, rather than having specific ligature type? Petrucci certainly had the latter, but only for a limited number of two-note ligatures. It would depend on the ligature. Certainly one with a backwards-turned final note above the preceding note (yeah, I know there's a specific name for that, but I'm too lazy to go look it up) could not be constructed with a separate piece of type, quite apart from needing a variety of stem lengths to cover all situations. But I would imagine that some compound ligatures would have been feasible. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tuplet notation
On Jun 28, 2006, at 11:15 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote:As to the question of what is correct *now*, things are not quite as simple as you suggest. In particular, the proper number of beams for a septuplet has been a vexed question for a very long time. Many composers follow the rule you cite, that a tuplet should always be beamed according to the next slower "plain" note value (note that the duplet is an exception to this). Other composers, including me, follow a different rule: that the beaming of a tuplet should follow the *closest* plain note value, with the triplet being the dividing point (anything faster than a triplet gets more beams). When I prepare music for printing I try to keep the player in mind, because I was a player before I was a copyist/engraver, composer or arranger. And I am still active as a player, so I can still think that way. What's gonna make it easier to play? It seems to me that 7 16ths are a lot of notes to fit into one beat (one less than twice as many), whereas 7 32nds seem more natural (one less than the normal number). I would never go so far as to put 8 or 9 16ths beamed together--they'd have to be 32nds. But I don't get to decide in this case, since I'm working for someone else. I discussed this with him, and he opted to keep it like the original. This is a case where an arpeggio is being extended by one interval at a time (6 notes, then 7, 8 and 9), and it's pretty clear to the eye, just looking at it. But as a player, when it gets to 7 and above, I want to see 32nds. Lon Price, Los Angeles[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.txstnr.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re:OTmusic getting louder - was Trombones
Your point is well made, although the Temps had, at that time, two original vocalists and three that went back many years (that group started dying off pretty quickly, as I recall). But the touring band was mostly young. The conductor for them, and for the Four Tops (the vocalists were intact for that group for nearly forty years) would rehearse the orchestra without the rhythm section. He would stand in the middle of the orchestra and beat on a cowbell throughout the rehearsal. Cute. At least we got to hear ourselves at the rehearsal. RBH Darcy James Argue wrote: Of course, the Funk Bros. (who played on all the original Motown recordings before the label relocated to LA) were some of Detroit's finest jazz players. They would track for Motown during the day (for which they were paid a flat rate of $10/song) and play in the jazz clubs at night. This was before the days of isolation booths and recordings built up one track at a time, let alone today's auto-tune and groove quantization -- the band had to do it in one, and it it had to sound balanced in the room. (Vocals were overdubbed later.) Even 10-12 years ago, The Temptations was just a brand, bearing little to no resemblance to the individuals that actually recorded Ain't Too Proud To Beg and the rest. They're effectively a Temptations tribute band, with all of the bad taste that entails. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re:OTmusic getting louder - was Trombones
Hi John, Sorry I left out the title - JJ's Broadway (arrangements of show tunes). Some of the tracks are glorious to my ears, and I'm proud to have been a participant. Again, not to start a war: I am a displaced NYer now living on the West Coast in beautiful Bellingham, Washington - with a 50 + mile view across Bellingham Bay to the San Juan Islands and the Canadian Cascades from our home - hard to beat, but I'll take East Coast music any day. I think it's sometimes possible to get similar performances from musicians here, if they have been selected for that characteristic, but there's no question in my mind that there's an overall energy, commitment to rhythm, and something that feels to me like working against a kind of resistance, a friction that produces excitement and heat in East Coast players that is lacking in the West. It's too easy to go outside away from problems into good weather and beauty here. In NY, you are stuck in canyons and caves and must produce beauty indoors in the company of others. I'm such a city guy! Sometimes Jazz musicians from New Orleans and Baton Rouge (Wynton and some of his cohorts), say about certain expressive inflections and musical gestures they like, That's Country! I want to say about the music I love, That's Urban! Chuck On Jun 28, 2006, at 11:00 AM, John Howell wrote: Chuck Israels wrote: I played on a recording date in 1963 with JJ Johnson - arrangements written by JJ for himself, 4 other trombones (Urbie Green and Lou McGarity, on tenors, Tommy Mitchell and Paul Faulise on bass trombones, and a rhythm section that included Hank Jones and Walter Perkins, now available on Verve CD V6-8530). Chuck: That wasn't by any chance the Trombones Incorporated album with East Coast players vs. West Coast players, was it? Incredible players, incredible charts, and a tutorial in the difference between East Coast and West Coast Jazz at about that time. The close miked recording sounds quite good to me now, and the effect is somewhat louder than I remember the sound in the room, but the impact and feeling of immersion in the glory of the vibrating air in the studio, even if not quite as loud as the recording can be played, was orders of magnitude more beautiful, and it took my breath away. Yeah! Sinatra insisted that his last recordings for (Decca?) be done live, and because he had an attitude problem with them he sang through each song exactly once. And I was on tour with Hank Mancini just after he had gone BACK to live recording with everyone in the studio after having done tracking for several albums, and he commented that he would never go back to tracking! John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tuplet notation
John Howell wrote: I may not completely understand the flow of technological changes, which is why I ask this question. The period when music was generated with handset type, to the best of my knowledge, was the 16th and early 17th centuries. A little off on the end; the last piece of music I have seen that was handset was a choral publication by Novello in 1962. It was common up until about 1950; just about all hymnals and music books produced were set with handset type, and I have a violin piece (though not by Paganini) in a volume published at the end of the 19th century, which was printed from handset type. By Paganini's lifetime (1782-1840), was music not being printed from engraved copper plates? And real engraving, with a sharp steel implement, not punched? If so, anything that could be engraved could be placed on the printing plates. I understand punch engraving began to be used in the mid-eighteenth century; I don't know enough about the history of printing music to know when and where it was used, or under what conditions. My main intent in my post was to point out that what we see on the printed page may well represent the synthesis of the ideas of a number of people, and unless on has access to the autograph copy by the composer, may not represent only the composer's intentions. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tuplet notation
On 28 Jun 2006 at 18:21, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: John Howell wrote: I may not completely understand the flow of technological changes, which is why I ask this question. The period when music was generated with handset type, to the best of my knowledge, was the 16th and early 17th centuries. A little off on the end; the last piece of music I have seen that was handset was a choral publication by Novello in 1962. It was common up until about 1950; just about all hymnals and music books produced were set with handset type, and I have a violin piece (though not by Paganini) in a volume published at the end of the 19th century, which was printed from handset type. I don't dispute your examples of typeset music, but they are *outliers* in terms of normal practice after the period John mentions. By Paganini's lifetime (1782-1840), was music not being printed from engraved copper plates? And real engraving, with a sharp steel implement, not punched? If so, anything that could be engraved could be placed on the printing plates. I understand punch engraving began to be used in the mid-eighteenth century; I don't know enough about the history of printing music to know when and where it was used, or under what conditions. My main intent in my post was to point out that what we see on the printed page may well represent the synthesis of the ideas of a number of people, and unless on has access to the autograph copy by the composer, may not represent only the composer's intentions. But typesetting had *nothing* to do with the choices made in engraved music, which was very similar to copying with pen and ink in terms of what the engraver could put on the page. Thus, your hypothesis that norms of typeset music may have caused the engraver of the Paganini to emit duplet indicators is simply completely implausible. By the time any Paganini work was published, engraving or lithography would have been the norm. The move to lithography greatly increased the similarity between creating printed editions and copying manuscripts (cf. the first edition of the score of Wagner's Tannhäuser, for example). -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Tuplet notation
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:55:58 -0400 John wrote: In manuscript I used a LOT of one-bar and two-bar (and sometimes four-bar) ditto marks, but it is child's play today to copy the notation in those measures throughout the passage. But that may not be the clearest way to indicate consecutive measures with a repetitive pattern. Which brings up other decisions, when using ditto marks: (1) Should the figure be re-notated at the beginning of each line? (My answer, an unequivocal NO!) (2) Should milepost numbers be shown every 4, 8, etc. bars of dittos, when each bar is clearly numbered in the first place? (My answer, an unequivocal YES!!) - To which my response is: for (1) a tepid yes as long all the repeated bars/measures are numbered consecutively, ie if there are eight bars repeated and four of them are on one line then the figure at the beginning of the next line carries the number five. I've often wondered whether it is really necessary to make the bar at the beginning of the line carry the full notation, but I've gone along with the convention. It's analagous to the convention of starting a new page with the clef when it has been left out on all but the first bar of the previous page. For (2) also yes. Regards, Rudi vB. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] playback tempo problem
Hi all, There is an unwanted ritard hidden in some MIDI data in a file I'm working on. Someone told me how to solve this problem a while ago, but I have forgotten. Will someone please remind me what to do to get rid of this? Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Re: Tuplet notation
I have been told by drummers to put the pattern at the beginning of each line. I'd say that milepost numbers are desirable, especially if phrase lengths are in any way irregular. Chuck...weigh in, please!! Jim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Rudolf van Berkum Sent: Wed 28-Jun-06 21:40 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] Re: Tuplet notation On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:55:58 -0400 John wrote: In manuscript I used a LOT of one-bar and two-bar (and sometimes four-bar) ditto marks, but it is child's play today to copy the notation in those measures throughout the passage. But that may not be the clearest way to indicate consecutive measures with a repetitive pattern. Which brings up other decisions, when using ditto marks: (1) Should the figure be re-notated at the beginning of each line? (My answer, an unequivocal NO!) (2) Should milepost numbers be shown every 4, 8, etc. bars of dittos, when each bar is clearly numbered in the first place? (My answer, an unequivocal YES!!) - To which my response is: for (1) a tepid yes as long all the repeated bars/measures are numbered consecutively, ie if there are eight bars repeated and four of them are on one line then the figure at the beginning of the next line carries the number five. I've often wondered whether it is really necessary to make the bar at the beginning of the line carry the full notation, but I've gone along with the convention. It's analagous to the convention of starting a new page with the clef when it has been left out on all but the first bar of the previous page. For (2) also yes. Regards, Rudi vB. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale I have been told by drummers to put the pattern at the beginning of each line. I'd say that milepost numbers are desirable, especially if phrase lengths are in any way irregular. Chuck...weigh in, please!! Jim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Rudolf van Berkum Sent: Wed 28-Jun-06 21:40 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] Re: Tuplet notation On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:55:58 -0400 John wrote: In manuscript I used a LOT of one-bar and two-bar (and sometimes four-bar) ditto marks, but it is child's play today to copy the notation in those measures throughout the passage. But that may not be the clearest way to indicate consecutive measures with a repetitive pattern. Which brings up other decisions, when using ditto marks: (1) Should the figure be re-notated at the beginning of each line? (My answer, an unequivocal NO!) (2) Should milepost numbers be shown every 4, 8, etc. bars of dittos, when each bar is clearly numbered in the first place? (My answer, an unequivocal YES!!) - To which my response is: for (1) a tepid yes as long all the repeated bars/measures are numbered consecutively, ie if there are eight bars repeated and four of them are on one line then the figure at the beginning of the next line carries the number five. I've often wondered whether it is really necessary to make the bar at the beginning of the line carry the full notation, but I've gone along with the convention. It's analagous to the convention of starting a new page with the clef when it has been left out on all but the first bar of the previous page. For (2) also yes. Regards, Rudi vB. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Tuplet notation
On Jun 28, 2006, at 6:50 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: I have been told by drummers to put the pattern at the beginning of each line. I'd say that milepost numbers are desirable, especially if phrase lengths are in any way irregular. Chuck...weigh in, please!! Jim Weighing in at some 20 lbs too heavy! Jim, this sounds appropriate to me. It can actually be easier to read one and two bar repeat symbols, once a pattern has been memorized (than looking to see if the pattern is the same, I mean). Putting a written out measure at the beginning of each line is a nice courtesy, and the only time I think it might be counter-productive is if there is a small change in the pattern occurring at the beginning of a subsequent line (3 or 4 lines down) where the reader might logically overlook the change thinking that it is another courtesy written out measure. If such a change happened in another place in the line, the written out measure in that new location would attract attention and be unlikely to be misread. Ways around such a problem include an eyeglass symbol over the changed measure, or not writing out the measures at the beginning of the lines. Bill Duncan - Be impossible to misunderstand. Chuck From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Rudolf van Berkum Sent: Wed 28-Jun-06 21:40 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] Re: Tuplet notation On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:55:58 -0400 John wrote: In manuscript I used a LOT of one-bar and two-bar (and sometimes four-bar) ditto marks, but it is child's play today to copy the notation in those measures throughout the passage. But that may not be the clearest way to indicate consecutive measures with a repetitive pattern. Which brings up other decisions, when using ditto marks: (1) Should the figure be re-notated at the beginning of each line? (My answer, an unequivocal NO!) (2) Should milepost numbers be shown every 4, 8, etc. bars of dittos, when each bar is clearly numbered in the first place? (My answer, an unequivocal YES!!) - To which my response is: for (1) a tepid yes as long all the repeated bars/measures are numbered consecutively, ie if there are eight bars repeated and four of them are on one line then the figure at the beginning of the next line carries the number five. I've often wondered whether it is really necessary to make the bar at the beginning of the line carry the full notation, but I've gone along with the convention. It's analagous to the convention of starting a new page with the clef when it has been left out on all but the first bar of the previous page. For (2) also yes. Regards, Rudi vB. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale msg-10750-5291.txt ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] playback tempo problem
On Jun 28, 2006, at 9:48 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Hi all, There is an unwanted ritard hidden in some MIDI data in a file I'm working on. Someone told me how to solve this problem a while ago, but I have forgotten. Will someone please remind me what to do to get rid of this? It's probably in the playback attributes of a measure expression. Identify the bar that the problem happens in, then double click any expressions that happen to be in any staff in that bar, and check the Playback tab for them. Change the MIDI event to None, and OK your way back to the score. If it's a MIDI tool problem, then I am not the one to explain anything about that tool. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Finale 2007 and TGTools
I'm wondering if TGTools is going to come out with a new version for Finale 2007. There hasn't been any huge changes to the plugin in about a year, and I hope it will work just like it works now (as I use it all the time). Also, a Universal version for running on Intel Macs would be nice as well ;-) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
