[Finale] 2008a E Flat Transposition

2008-02-20 Thread Williams, Jim
WinFin 08a
XP Pro
 
Created a sax-section score--soprano, alto, 2 tenors, bari, jazz font, JABB
 
Key is concert D minor. Finale correctly shows transposed keysigs for the 
instruments (one sharp for Bb saxes, 2 sharps for Eb saxes)
 
I use speedy entry, no MIDI keyboard this time--I'm on my laptop
 
Went to enter notes in the alto staff...note was supposed to be a written G# 
(concert B natural). Entered a G then hit s, expecting a sharp, but got a 
double-sharp instead. Hitting n gave me a sharp, and hitting f had no effect at 
all upon the note. For the record, x yielded a triple-sharp.
 
What am I screwing up? Or is it Finale??
 
Thanx...
Jim W.

 
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Re: [Finale] Fin2k8b download speed

2008-02-20 Thread John Blane
Yes, same thing here. It helps a little if you interrupt the download  
and then resume it but it is brutally slow.


On Feb 20, 2008, at 7:30 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:

Has anyone else tried to download Fin2k8b only to see their  
download slow to a crawl? I'm getting 16KB/sec on cable broadband  
that is usually 6-10 MB/sec.


It's hard to believe MM's servers could be overwhelmed by people  
downloading a Mac-only maintenance release, even on the  release  
date. Is anyone else seeing this?


Cheers,

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



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John Blane
Blane Music Preparation
1649 Huntington Ln.
Highland Park, IL 60035
847 579-9900
847 579-9903 fax
www.BlaneMusic.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [Finale] Fin2k8b download speed

2008-02-20 Thread Christopher Smith


On Feb 20, 2008, at 8:30 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:

Has anyone else tried to download Fin2k8b only to see their  
download slow to a crawl? I'm getting 16KB/sec on cable broadband  
that is usually 6-10 MB/sec.


It's hard to believe MM's servers could be overwhelmed by people  
downloading a Mac-only maintenance release, even on the  release  
date. Is anyone else seeing this?


Yes, I am downloading at 20KB/sec right now. Too much demand I guess.

Christopher



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Re: [Finale] Fin2k8b download speed

2008-02-20 Thread Leigh Daniels
Darcy,

Mine is coming down at 15 KB/sec, 2 hrs, 47 mins remaining!

**Leigh

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008, Darcy James Argue <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Has anyone else tried to download Fin2k8b only to see their download  
>slow to a crawl? I'm getting 16KB/sec on cable broadband that is  
>usually 6-10 MB/sec.
>
>


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Re: [Finale] Fin2k8b download speed

2008-02-20 Thread Matthew Voogt

Yeah same here... I've been trying all night and it is just crawling

On Feb 20, 2008, at 8:30 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:

Has anyone else tried to download Fin2k8b only to see their download  
slow to a crawl? I'm getting 16KB/sec on cable broadband that is  
usually 6-10 MB/sec.


It's hard to believe MM's servers could be overwhelmed by people  
downloading a Mac-only maintenance release, even on the  release  
date. Is anyone else seeing this?


Cheers,

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



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[Finale] Fin2k8b download speed

2008-02-20 Thread Darcy James Argue
Has anyone else tried to download Fin2k8b only to see their download  
slow to a crawl? I'm getting 16KB/sec on cable broadband that is  
usually 6-10 MB/sec.


It's hard to believe MM's servers could be overwhelmed by people  
downloading a Mac-only maintenance release, even on the  release date.  
Is anyone else seeing this?


Cheers,

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



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Re: [Finale] OT: None Finale question for computer buffs

2008-02-20 Thread YATESLAWRENCE
Hi David (Fenton),
 
Thanks for your suggestions.  I've had this same problem on all my  recent 
computers and so have several people I know (including, as I mentioned, a  
lecturer in computer studies at a local university).
 
I have not used IE for years and always use Firefox. Two of the problem  
computers have only ever used Firefox (apart from those programmes which, I am  
told, use IE as a default without naming it or offering another option - 
doesn't 
 AOL fall into this category or does it have its own browser?)
 
I really think that,as you suggest, a reformat is going to be the only  way 
to sort the computers out. 
 
I've tried some of the software suggestions but there seems to be little  
difference, although they did report a very large number of registry  problems. 
 
I'll spend more time with this tomorrow - it's nearly midnight  now and I'm 
not long in from a rehearsal and really ready for bed!
 
Thanks to everyone who has offered help on this, I'm still open to  
suggestions.
 
Cheers,
 
Lawrence
 
lawrenceyates.co.uk



   
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Re: [Finale] 2008b is out

2008-02-20 Thread dhbailey

Chuck Israels wrote:




Hi all,

2008b is out and purports to solve the freeze on quit problem.  I will 
shout hallelujah, if it proves to be true.




Windows users don't get excited -- there isn't a 2008b for Windows, at 
least not yet.


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread Matthew Voogt
Yeah. We have toyed with that idea as well. All of our videos are  
recorded at extremely high quality so that is an option that we can  
come back to. And when people get the DVD's they get the high quality  
versions of course... not the web ones.


On Feb 20, 2008, at 2:37 PM, shirling & neueweise wrote:



As for the video quality. I encoded at a rate that I thought would  
be ok for people with slow and fast connections.


keeping in mind many people learning finale could possibly be on uni  
servers... and taht today bandwidth is r-e-a-l-l-y not the same  
issue it was even five years ago.   accessibility is an important  
issue, but so is content and presentation.  why not offer hi/lo  
versions?


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Re: [Finale] OT: None Finale question for computer buffs

2008-02-20 Thread David W. Fenton
On 20 Feb 2008 at 3:33, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I understand, and experience seems to bear this out, that computers running  
> under WindowsXP will gradually run slower and slower over a period of  time.

I don't think this is true unless there's something wrong with your 
computer, or unless you're installing crap on it all the time, or 
unless you're gradually using up all your disk space.

> I am also told that there is a way to correct this (apart from things like  
> defragging and erasing temp files).  I am also assured that this is not  easy 
> to do but is in fact possible. It was implied, though not stated, that it  
> involved, amongst other things, mucking about with things in the registry.

I don't see this problem myself.

> If all this is true, does anyone know where I might find instructions on  how 
> to do this (or even tell me in an email how I can do it)

I don't think it's true, except for systems that are ill-cared-for.

> I currently have two all but unusable computers because even booting up is  
> taking ten minutes or more.  Yes I have anti-virus software on one of them,  
> the other one is never used online and so has had it removed (someone 
> suggested  
> that the slow speed was due to the AV software).  Erasing files made no  
> difference either nor did de-fragging)

Do you use Internet Explorer? If so, quiting using that and using a 
decent browser like Firefox could solve many of your problems.

If you've not been taking care of your system, then, yes, it could be 
a mess, and the only thing to do would be to reformat and start over. 
If you do that here's a couple of pieces of advice:

1. download all the Windows Updates you'll need before you reformat, 
and burn them to CDs. This is much more easily done if you've already 
been downloading them, but you can find out what you need by going to 
Windows Update in IE and clicking on UPDATE HISTORY. You can then 
print out that list and use the Knowledge Base article numbers to 
find the downloads.

2. once you've re-installed Windows and applied all the updates and 
installed all your software, make a restore point and make a backup 
image. If you ever have to reformat again, you can just restore this 
backup image and save all the time in Step 1.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/


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Re: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread shirling & neueweise


As for the video quality. I encoded at a rate that I thought would 
be ok for people with slow and fast connections.


keeping in mind many people learning finale could possibly be on uni 
servers... and taht today bandwidth is r-e-a-l-l-y not the same issue 
it was even five years ago.   accessibility is an important issue, 
but so is content and presentation.  why not offer hi/lo versions?


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RE: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius -- which is truly faster?

2008-02-20 Thread Steve Currington

>  Christopher Smith composed the following.


> On Feb 19, 2008, at 5:33 PM, dhbailey wrote:
>> 
>> And here all my teachers told me there were no stupid questions.  :-(
> 
> That's what I say to MY students. "There are no stupid questions.
> Only stupid students."
> 
> 8-)
> 
> Christopher

Hmm and stupid answers   ;-)

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FW: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius -- which is truly faster?

2008-02-20 Thread Steve Currington
Oh and before someone jumps down my throat.  I was agreeing whole
heartedly with the "try and see" statement not the "stupid question"
statement.  
 
In my opinion any question raised on these forums is valid no matter
how "stupid" they may seem to some.  It is all a matter of where one
stands in time and experience at the time.  What is "stupid" to some
is "important" to others.  Just like normal questions in life I
guess.
 
 Steve
 
 
>>  Steve Currington composed the following.
> 
> 
>> Yep.  agree whole heartedly.   And in trying give both a fair
>> "hearing".. ala rather than saying Oh bugger Finale doesn't do this
>> well or Sibelius as crap at that.. They should give both a complete
>> se of "test run" and see in reality which overall works best..  Both
>> will have advantages and both with have disadvantages.  It is
>> choosing the one that has the minimal or least negative impact that
>> is the trick.
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>>>  Eric Dannewitz composed the following.
>> 
>> 
>>> Exactly. That is why it was a stupid question. One really needs to
>>> try them out and come to their own conclusions based on how they do
>>> things. 
>>> 
>>> Steve Currington wrote:
 I can't answer based on current experiences or should I say
 products but I think the answer is .. it depends on how you work
 and your mental processes - some of which can be modified and some
 is inherent in ones personality or inbred work habits.


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RE: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius -- which is truly faster?

2008-02-20 Thread Steve Currington

>  dhbailey composed the following.


> Robert Patterson wrote:
>> Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a stupid question. But it
>> is a question that whose answer is very individual.
>> 
>> The only reason I chime in here is to mention that if you are not
>> making full use of 3rd-party plugins, and also using a 3rd-party
>> keyboard macro program, you have no idea how fast you can really go
>> with Finale. I have no idea what the relative benefits of these
>> products with Sib are, but with Finale they are huge. (But the
>> learning curve is steep.) 
>> 
> 
> There is no need for a keyboard macro program with Sibelius because
> all of its functions are user-definable as keyboard shortcuts.  Why
> Finale hasn't done this is beyond me.  

Although "Sibelius" macro's can be written and then assigned within Sib
as it's own user defined keyboard shortcut.
Sib comes with a bunch already and some are brilliant.   
Yep no real need for an external keyboard macro tool in Sib.

Steve

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RE: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius -- which is truly faster?

2008-02-20 Thread Steve Currington
Yep.  agree whole heartedly.   And in trying give both a fair
"hearing".. ala rather than saying Oh bugger Finale doesn't do this well
or Sibelius as crap at that.. They should give both a complete se of
"test run" and see in reality which overall works best..  Both will have
advantages and both with have disadvantages.  It is choosing the one
that has the minimal or least negative impact that is the trick.

Steve


>  Eric Dannewitz composed the following.


> Exactly. That is why it was a stupid question. One really needs to
> try them out and come to their own conclusions based on how they do
> things.  
> 
> Steve Currington wrote:
>> I can't answer based on current experiences or should I say products
>> but I think the answer is .. it depends on how you work and your
>> mental processes - some of which can be modified and some is inherent
>> in ones personality or inbred work habits.


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RE: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius -- which is truly faster?

2008-02-20 Thread Steve Currington

>  Christopher Smith composed the following.


> On Feb 19, 2008, at 7:23 PM, Adam Golding wrote:
> 
>> yeah i indeed tried the macro route for awhile--setting things up on
>> finale with autohotkey and whatnot--mind you, i could never find an
>> easy way to enter smartshapes from the keyboard--i think i would have
>> to learn the actual plugin language to do that.  On the other hand,
>> maybe i'm just so addicted to keyboard shortcuts that I can't
>> realize that using the mouse *could* be fast too?  I have the same
>> issues with removing articulations. 
>> 
> 
> For removing articulations (I only mention this for other Finale
> users who might be unaware, as it seems not to be useful for you
> since you are on Sib now) when the articulation tool is selected you
> can hold down the Delete key and click individual articulations, or
> drag around entire passages across staves to remove articulations.
> 
> There was a user on here a few years ago who had done his thesis on
> input devices, and settled on the mouse as being the most flexible
> overall, in addition to being much faster than people actually
> thought it was. For some things like entering Smart Shape crescendos,
> holding down the < or > keys and double-clicking turns out to be very
> quick, while for slurs it is hard to imagine a quicker way than
> double-click and drag.  
> 
> Christopher

Again it all comes back to the way an individual works and thinks.
one persons click and drag is another persons keyboard press..

What do they call it.. Kinesthetic, Audial/Aural, Visual  as a primary
and secondary learning and usage processes??


S.

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[Finale] 2008b is out

2008-02-20 Thread Chuck Israels




Hi all,

2008b is out and purports to solve the freeze on quit problem.  I will  
shout hallelujah, if it proves to be true.


Chuck



Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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Re: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread marcello noia
The video shots are a bit small and (sorry for saying that, I'm Italian) 
sometimes it's really hard to understand what's being said.

The idea is great as well.

Dick Hauser ha scritto:


On Feb 19, 2008, at 9:27 PM, Matthew Voogt wrote:

It is a website that is totally free and offers video tutorials about 
anything and everything related to Finale. Check it out... let me 
know what you think.


Great idea, Matthew.  I'm not tempted to purchase any of the videos, 
however.  I just demoed the staff tool tutorial available from the 
home page.  Your audio quality is a bit distracting to me.  I guess 
I'd say amateur.  Fine if you're doing it for fun, but not if you're 
selling.  Also, when I'm viewing a presentation to try to learn 
something, I'd like a script that is a bit more linear.


I think that the tutorials at this site are really good.

http://www.tutorialdepot.com/index2.html

 I've subscribed to the Digital Performer series, as a matter of fact.

Good luck!  And thanks for sharing.

Dick H
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Re: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread Chuck Israels


On Feb 20, 2008, at 11:17 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:


Hi Matt,

Good luck with this.

RE: video size, what you actually need to do is to zoom in on the  
areas of interest so that people can see what you are doing. I  
looked at your Drum Hits video and it wasn't really possible to see  
what was going on on the actual staves. Plus, about 90% of your  
video screen real estate was completely wasted (empty space below  
the two staves in Scroll View). When you make these videos, you need  
to zoom way in so only the relevant parts of the screen are visible.  
You may need to move the camera along with the cursor in some cases.


For audio quality, for internet video, you probably only really need  
a Snowball USB Mic. But what you *really* need is a script. You  
can't just record the audio and video off-the-cuff -- you need to  
plan out the most efficient way to convey the information you are  
trying to convey. Making good instructional videos is difficult and  
you can't just wing it.




Matt,

There is good material here, and I appreciate the work that has gone  
into it.  But, this is a recording - not a conversation, and the  
verbal tics become annoying and distracting.  On any kind of  
professional level (and if you are selling this, as I think you would  
like to, and probably should), you need a script that allows you to  
avoid the verbal fillers that interfere with the content of the spoken  
information.  So, I am in agreement with Darcy about this and about  
the size and framing of the video information.


Good luck,

Chuck



Check out the CommonCraft video series ("Explanations in Plain  
English") on YouTube -- they are a terrific model:


http://www.youtube.com/user/leelefever

Cheers,

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



On 20 Feb 2008, at 1:37 PM, Matthew Voogt wrote:


Hi Everyone!

Thanks for the great feedback. I can agree with the fact that the
audio is a bit not so great. This was a student project that I
finished up this year (I go to Berklee College of Music). And I'm
actually looking for a grant from the school to get some funding so
that I can buy some of the audio recording stuff I need to make  
higher

quality. As for the video quality. I encoded at a rate that I thought
would be ok for people with slow and fast connections. So There had  
to

be a compromise. If you are viewing on a 30" screen, yeah it is going
to be a bit fuzzy.

We are also trying to work on some search capabilities as well.

As for it not being free... well there are 75 tutorials up and about
75% of them are up free of charge :) We are trying to test the market
and see if people would like to buy subscriptions or DVDs more.

-Matt

On 2/20/08, dhbailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

dc wrote:

Matthew Voogt écrit:
It is a website that is totally free and offers video tutorials  
about
anything and everything related to Finale. Check it out... let  
me know

what you think.


Where one reads:

What [sic] to see all those locke0d [sic] videos?! A one time  
fee will

give you access to all the content on thefinaleschool.com


Is this what you call "totally free"?

Dennis




The web-site is free -- viewing all the content costs money.  :-)


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com


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Re: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread Chuck Israels

Hi Matthew,

Good work so far - as a work in progress.  I agree with what has been  
posted so far in response, and I want to add that the suggestion Darcy  
made about a script is more than just window dressing; it is necessary  
to raise this to a professional level.  The verbal tics that yu can  
get away with in conversation do not belong in any recording.  They  
are distracting and interfere with the content of the message.


I encourage you to continue this and refine it.

Chuck


On Feb 19, 2008, at 9:27 PM, Matthew Voogt wrote:


Hello Everyone,

My name is Matthew Voogt. I am new to the list and would just like  
to say hello. I have a website called The Finale School (http://www.thefinaleschool.com 
).


It is a website that is totally free and offers video tutorials  
about anything and everything related to Finale. Check it out... let  
me know what you think.


-Matt
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230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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Re: [Finale] OT: a little shameless self promotion

2008-02-20 Thread Kim Patrick Clow
On 2/20/08, dc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not sure it's very safe to have Scorch viewable files on line, though...
> I'm no computer geek, but it only took me one click to save the whole vocal
> score on my own computer and open it in Sibelius. Isn't there some kind of
> encryption available? Or some kind of protection scheme? > Dennis


No there isn't. I asked Brian Clark about this, he said if you want to
keep your files safe, don't post them, and only use a single page PDF
as a sample online. I've been sorely tempted to use Scorch for my
material, but decided against it.

Kim
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Re: [Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 55, Issue 19

2008-02-20 Thread Eric Dannewitz
On Finale, www.tgtools.de

On 2/20/08, Peter Sprague <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius -- which is truly faster?
>
>
>  Hi, what are the 3rd party  plugins and where does one find out about them
>  and buy them?
>
>  Thanks, Peter
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Re: [Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 55, Issue 19

2008-02-20 Thread Robert Patterson
Google "finale plug-in". The first page gets you to just about all of them.

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 8:41 AM, Peter Sprague
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius -- which is truly faster?
>  >
>  > Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a stupid question. But it
>  > is a question that whose answer is very individual.
>  >
>  > The only reason I chime in here is to mention that if you are not
>  > making full use of 3rd-party plugins, and also using a 3rd-party
>  > keyboard macro program, you have no idea how fast you can really go
>  > with Finale. I have no idea what the relative benefits of these
>  > products with Sib are, but with Finale they are huge. (But the
>  > learning curve is steep.)
>
>
>  Hi, what are the 3rd party  plugins and where does one find out about them
>  and buy them?
>
>  Thanks, Peter
>
>
>  ___
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>
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RE: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread Fisher, Allen
Eric Said:

I think you ought to make two encodes then. Or just a higher one. How
many people really expect to watch a video over a slower connection?

To which I reply:
1. My Dad (he still uses dialup, like an awful lot of people who live in the 
rural US)
2. Many of the schools that I've worked with recently don't have the most 
reliable, speedy internet connections in the world. For example, place where I 
go to school/tutor/teach doesn't have a real great network.

Matthew, I suggest looking into some software for your website (I wish I could 
find the link at the moment--I think QuickTime will let you do this--I know 
that YouTube has their own proprietary stuff in this regard) that lets you 
control what quality gets streamed based on the requesting source. Barring 
that, posting links for 2 encodings is probably the best way to go.




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Re: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread Eric Dannewitz
I think you ought to make two encodes then. Or just a higher one. How
many people really expect to watch a video over a slower connection?
And a tutorial video at that? I personally, even though I have a high
speed connection, would rather wait for something that is of quality
to download than trying to play Indiana Jones with a lower quality
copy.

As for the audio recording things, there are some cheap USB mics out,
or even adapters that will let you use a like a Shure 58 to record
directly into your computer. $100 or so. Maybe even less.

On 2/20/08, Matthew Voogt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Everyone!
>
>  Thanks for the great feedback. I can agree with the fact that the
>  audio is a bit not so great. This was a student project that I
>  finished up this year (I go to Berklee College of Music). And I'm
>  actually looking for a grant from the school to get some funding so
>  that I can buy some of the audio recording stuff I need to make higher
>  quality. As for the video quality. I encoded at a rate that I thought
>  would be ok for people with slow and fast connections. So There had to
>  be a compromise. If you are viewing on a 30" screen, yeah it is going
>  to be a bit fuzzy.
>
>  We are also trying to work on some search capabilities as well.
>
>  As for it not being free... well there are 75 tutorials up and about
>  75% of them are up free of charge :) We are trying to test the market
>  and see if people would like to buy subscriptions or DVDs more.
>
>  -Matt
>
>
>  On 2/20/08, dhbailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > dc wrote:
>  >  > Matthew Voogt écrit:
>  >  >> It is a website that is totally free and offers video tutorials about
>  >  >> anything and everything related to Finale. Check it out... let me know
>  >  >> what you think.
>  >  >
>  >  > Where one reads:
>  >  >
>  >  >> What [sic] to see all those locke0d [sic] videos?! A one time fee will
>  >  >> give you access to all the content on thefinaleschool.com
>  >  >
>  >  > Is this what you call "totally free"?
>  >  >
>  >  > Dennis
>  >  >
>  >
>  >
>  > The web-site is free -- viewing all the content costs money.  :-)
>  >
>  >
>  >  --
>  >  David H. Bailey
>  >  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  >  ___
>  >
>  > Finale mailing list
>  >  Finale@shsu.edu
>  >  http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>  >
>
>  ___
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Re: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread Darcy James Argue

Hi Matt,

Good luck with this.

RE: video size, what you actually need to do is to zoom in on the  
areas of interest so that people can see what you are doing. I looked  
at your Drum Hits video and it wasn't really possible to see what was  
going on on the actual staves. Plus, about 90% of your video screen  
real estate was completely wasted (empty space below the two staves in  
Scroll View). When you make these videos, you need to zoom way in so  
only the relevant parts of the screen are visible. You may need to  
move the camera along with the cursor in some cases.


For audio quality, for internet video, you probably only really need a  
Snowball USB Mic. But what you *really* need is a script. You can't  
just record the audio and video off-the-cuff -- you need to plan out  
the most efficient way to convey the information you are trying to  
convey. Making good instructional videos is difficult and you can't  
just wing it.


Check out the CommonCraft video series ("Explanations in Plain  
English") on YouTube -- they are a terrific model:


http://www.youtube.com/user/leelefever

Cheers,

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



On 20 Feb 2008, at 1:37 PM, Matthew Voogt wrote:


Hi Everyone!

Thanks for the great feedback. I can agree with the fact that the
audio is a bit not so great. This was a student project that I
finished up this year (I go to Berklee College of Music). And I'm
actually looking for a grant from the school to get some funding so
that I can buy some of the audio recording stuff I need to make higher
quality. As for the video quality. I encoded at a rate that I thought
would be ok for people with slow and fast connections. So There had to
be a compromise. If you are viewing on a 30" screen, yeah it is going
to be a bit fuzzy.

We are also trying to work on some search capabilities as well.

As for it not being free... well there are 75 tutorials up and about
75% of them are up free of charge :) We are trying to test the market
and see if people would like to buy subscriptions or DVDs more.

-Matt

On 2/20/08, dhbailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

dc wrote:

Matthew Voogt écrit:
It is a website that is totally free and offers video tutorials  
about
anything and everything related to Finale. Check it out... let me  
know

what you think.


Where one reads:

What [sic] to see all those locke0d [sic] videos?! A one time fee  
will

give you access to all the content on thefinaleschool.com


Is this what you call "totally free"?

Dennis




The web-site is free -- viewing all the content costs money.  :-)


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Help files

2008-02-20 Thread Lawrence David Eden
Try holding down the OPTION key while launching 
the help files.  If this works, you will get a 
window that asks you what program to use to open 
the files


Good luck.





At 8:12 AM +0100 2/18/08, dc wrote:

Barbara Touburg écrit:

Ditch IE...


But how do I get the help files to open by 
default in Firefox, which is my default browser?


Dennis


That can get tricky, and depends on your 
platform and what programs you have on it.  I 
discovered that I had to go into Safari in order 
to set Netscape as my default browser.  I also 
have to go into Mail (which I use for nothing 
else) to set Entourage as my emailing program 
when I need to send a MailMerge document.  (I 
normally use Eudora.)  (MacBook Pro, OS 10.4.11)


None of this makes sense to me!

John


--
John R. Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

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RE: [Finale] OT: None Finale question for computer buffs

2008-02-20 Thread Richard Willis
One of the better utilities I use to resolve some of the problems mentioned
is the Glary Utilities.  This is a freeware (for individuals) set of tools
that do lots of things including a one-button fix on many of the problems
associated with a messy computer. I would highly recommend trying it.  

http://www.glaryutilities.com/

Richard

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
dhbailey
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:37 AM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: None Finale question for computer buffs

Aaron Sherber wrote:
> At 03:33 AM 2/20/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  >I understand, and experience seems to bear this out, that computers 
> running  >under WindowsXP will gradually run slower and slower over a 
> period of time.
> 
> I'm not sure why this would be so, and it certainly has not been my 
> personal experience.
> 

I've experienced it and it often comes from badly behaved applications which
when they are uninstalled don't remove all registry references, leaving the
OS trying to locate the applications upon startup.  Other causes are often
device drivers which don't uninstall when the hardware is no longer in use,
such as when a video card or sound card is replaced.  Yet other causes are
applications which think so much of themselves that they feel you will
obviously want them to run from the moment you start your computer and so
install themselves in the Startup folder.  Removing the shortcuts from that
folder remedies that situation but others don't install themselves that way
and require the user to run msconfig and disable them in the Startup tab.

Not everybody encounters this slowdown, but many people do.

--
David H. Bailey
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Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008
10:26 AM
 

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[Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 55, Issue 19

2008-02-20 Thread Peter Sprague
> Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius -- which is truly faster?
> 
> Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a stupid question. But it
> is a question that whose answer is very individual.
> 
> The only reason I chime in here is to mention that if you are not
> making full use of 3rd-party plugins, and also using a 3rd-party
> keyboard macro program, you have no idea how fast you can really go
> with Finale. I have no idea what the relative benefits of these
> products with Sib are, but with Finale they are huge. (But the
> learning curve is steep.)


Hi, what are the 3rd party  plugins and where does one find out about them
and buy them?

Thanks, Peter


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Re: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread Matthew Voogt
Hi Everyone!

Thanks for the great feedback. I can agree with the fact that the
audio is a bit not so great. This was a student project that I
finished up this year (I go to Berklee College of Music). And I'm
actually looking for a grant from the school to get some funding so
that I can buy some of the audio recording stuff I need to make higher
quality. As for the video quality. I encoded at a rate that I thought
would be ok for people with slow and fast connections. So There had to
be a compromise. If you are viewing on a 30" screen, yeah it is going
to be a bit fuzzy.

We are also trying to work on some search capabilities as well.

As for it not being free... well there are 75 tutorials up and about
75% of them are up free of charge :) We are trying to test the market
and see if people would like to buy subscriptions or DVDs more.

-Matt

On 2/20/08, dhbailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> dc wrote:
>  > Matthew Voogt écrit:
>  >> It is a website that is totally free and offers video tutorials about
>  >> anything and everything related to Finale. Check it out... let me know
>  >> what you think.
>  >
>  > Where one reads:
>  >
>  >> What [sic] to see all those locke0d [sic] videos?! A one time fee will
>  >> give you access to all the content on thefinaleschool.com
>  >
>  > Is this what you call "totally free"?
>  >
>  > Dennis
>  >
>
>
> The web-site is free -- viewing all the content costs money.  :-)
>
>
>  --
>  David H. Bailey
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  ___
>
> Finale mailing list
>  Finale@shsu.edu
>  http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>

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Re: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread dhbailey

dc wrote:

Matthew Voogt écrit:

It is a website that is totally free and offers video tutorials about
anything and everything related to Finale. Check it out... let me know
what you think.


Where one reads:

What [sic] to see all those locke0d [sic] videos?! A one time fee will 
give you access to all the content on thefinaleschool.com


Is this what you call "totally free"?

Dennis



The web-site is free -- viewing all the content costs money.  :-)

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: [Finale] OT: None Finale question for computer buffs

2008-02-20 Thread Richard Yates
>Aaron Sherber wrote:
>> At 03:33 AM 2/20/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>  >I understand, and experience seems to bear this out, that 
>computers 
>> running  >under WindowsXP will gradually run slower and 
>slower over a 
>> period of time.

You might try a Registry cleaner such as the one at:
http://www.liutilities.com/ . Try their RegistryBooster2. Whenever I run it,
it finds dozens of things to tidy up. There are also free performance scans
at that site.

Richard Yates

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Re: [Finale] OT: finding an editor for my choral works

2008-02-20 Thread marcello noia
Sorry for OT question: I'm producing a bunch of choral arrangements of 
pop, jazz, classical pieces for mixed voices, both SATB four parts and 
divisi.
The question is: could you advice me which editor could I contact to ask 
if they're interested in publishing my works? I ask that because 
websites like Acappella will not accept material for sale if it is not 
published.
I live in Italy and know that in my country almost no editors publish 
works by "unknown" people (like me), and also know that sending material 
to editors like Ricordi or something like that would mean loss of  time 
and money. They simply trash the stuff. I also know that becoming an 
editor myself in Italy costs lot of money.
Maybe Giuliano Forghieri could tell something more about that but in any 
case, could some of the kind people here spend a word about looking for 
an editor?

Thank you
Marcello
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Re: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread Eric Dannewitz
Well, the audio is ok. I think the video size is way too small, and
blowing it up makes it hard to look at (fuzzy). I'd forward the site
to a couple of Finale "noobs" that I know, but I think they would be
at a loss trying to see what is going on, and then they would promptly
either call or email me about getting confused

The content was good though. There is a lot of stuff that looks good
and could help people with learning Finale. On my little monitor
(19"), I can't really tell what is going on. Its all kind of fuzzy,
even blown up. And if I can't tell what is going on, a beginner is not
going to be able to tell what is going on.

Maybe re-encode the videos?

On 2/20/08, Dick Hauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Great idea, Matthew.  I'm not tempted to purchase any of the videos,
>  however.  I just demoed the staff tool tutorial available from the
>  home page.  Your audio quality is a bit distracting to me.  I guess
>  I'd say amateur.  Fine if you're doing it for fun, but not if you're
>  selling.  Also, when I'm viewing a presentation to try to learn
>  something, I'd like a script that is a bit more linear.
>
>  I think that the tutorials at this site are really good.
>
>  http://www.tutorialdepot.com/index2.html
>
>   I've subscribed to the Digital Performer series, as a matter of fact.
>
>  Good luck!  And thanks for sharing.
>
>  Dick H
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Re: [Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 55, Issue 14

2008-02-20 Thread Eric Dannewitz
Is NOT universal, but that does not mean that it does not run on Intel
Macs. They have done little revisions to version 12, it is not new by
any stretch of the imagination. It has been out for like nearly 4
years. The summer of 2004 is when it came out I believe. Version 12
works on the Mac, but it seriously lacks a lot of features, such as
Real Drums, and ear training to name a few.

If you can live with the limited feature set of the Mac version, then
go for it. For me, the additional things the PC version offers made it
worth while to get another copy of Windows XP and go through the
process of setting up a bootcamp partition and setting up Parallels.

On 2/15/08, Andrew Levin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Eric,
>
>  Things have apparently changed. There's a new version for Mac, version 12. I
>  don't know how it compares to the most recent Windows version. In any case,
>  here's a transcript of a chat with their Live Help:
>
>  Evan: Welcome to PG Music's live help.  May we please have your first and
>  last name to better assist you?
>  you: YEs, I'm Andrew. I just bought the latest BIAB for Mac. Is it
>  universal? Can it run on an intel machine? If not, what are your plans for
>  that?
>  Evan: Yes, it can run on an intel machine
>  you: Thank you!
>  you: Oh, to clarify. Can it run as a Mac program on an Intel machine (as
>  opposed to running a Windows version in Boot Camp or a virtual OS)
>  Evan: yes
>  you: Thanks
>
>  
>
>  I have very simple needs, so I'd rather just have a Mac version than fuss
>  with Windows on Intel (and buy another copy of Windows and Parallels for my
>  laptop).
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Re: [Finale] Using the IAC Driver bus, for Playback from Finale2008a/Sibelius5 from a Sequencer (Digital Performer 5.12)

2008-02-20 Thread Bob Morabito

Thanks Hiro--



On Feb 20, 2008, at 11:02 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote:



But Sib should see DP's ports from
its MIDI config if you started Sib after DP published the ports.


It did--I was able to get them both to work


I see.  It seems you can create multiple ports.  I have never done it
with IAC bus.  I will try to find a time to do a comparison sometime.


Id really be interested in that-
Thanks so much for your help-

Peace,

Bob Morabito







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Re: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread Dick Hauser


On Feb 19, 2008, at 9:27 PM, Matthew Voogt wrote:

It is a website that is totally free and offers video tutorials  
about anything and everything related to Finale. Check it out...  
let me know what you think.


Great idea, Matthew.  I'm not tempted to purchase any of the videos,  
however.  I just demoed the staff tool tutorial available from the  
home page.  Your audio quality is a bit distracting to me.  I guess  
I'd say amateur.  Fine if you're doing it for fun, but not if you're  
selling.  Also, when I'm viewing a presentation to try to learn  
something, I'd like a script that is a bit more linear.


I think that the tutorials at this site are really good.

http://www.tutorialdepot.com/index2.html

 I've subscribed to the Digital Performer series, as a matter of fact.

Good luck!  And thanks for sharing.

Dick H
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[Finale] OT: a little shameless self promotion

2008-02-20 Thread Martin Banner
For those of you on the list that might be practicing choir directors,  
I'm delighted (and proud) to announce that my newest edition, "Credo in  
D a 8"  by Giacomo Puccini "senior" (the great great grandfather of the  
more famous opera composer) for SATB double chorus, strings, oboes,  
horns and trumpets, has just been published by Hinshaw Music. If you  
are interested in hearing a sound file of the complete work, you can  
click on the link below to the Hinshaw site, then scroll until you come  
to "Credo in D a8" and click on the link with the sound icon.


In addition, Alliance Music Publications has just published another of  
my editions "Petite et Accipietis" by Johann Michael Haydn. While the  
Latin text may not be recognizable, the English translation definitely  
will ring a bell (Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find,  
knock and you it will be opened to you...). If you click on the link  
below to Alliance Music, then click on the link to "Petite et  
Accipietis", you can see several pages of both the vocal and orchestral  
scores.


Finally, since good things come in three's, Santa Barbara Music  
Publishing has just released my newest edition for men's choir, "In  
Exitu Israel" by Giovanni Grazioli, 18th Century organist and composer  
at St. Mark's Basilica in Venice. By going to the link below for SBMP,  
you can see the vocal score online.


Martin








www.alliancemusic.com/search.cfm? 
&type=composer&vFirstName=Martin&vLastName=Banner
www.hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php? 
keyword=banner&search=Search&RECORD_INDEX%28hinshaw_search%29=1

www.collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner
http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html
www.lorenz.com/results.aspx? 
srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner&c=Martin+Banner&pg=1&rpp=30

http://www.carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID=

Martin Banner
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread Mark McCarron
I love it

mark McCarron
--- Matthew Voogt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
> 
> My name is Matthew Voogt. I am new to the list and
> would just like to  
> say hello. I have a website called The Finale School
> (http://www.thefinaleschool.com 
> ).
> 
> It is a website that is totally free and offers
> video tutorials about  
> anything and everything related to Finale. Check it
> out... let me know  
> what you think.
> 
> -Matt
> ___
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> 

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Re: [Finale] Invisible Score

2008-02-20 Thread Barbara Touburg
You could check the system margins settings. I'd be willing to take a 
look, if you send me the file.


Gerry Kirk wrote:
 Thanks for your ideas Barbara, Noel, and Robert. I tried all of your  
suggestions a couple times, and in different sequences. Still no score  
is visible (yet parts print just fine, and the score is visible in  
scroll view).


Robert, I suspect you are correct that the problem resides in my  
original 97b version of Finale. Unfortunately, I cannot open that  
application on my Mac in OS 10.4. I have nothing that supports the  
former OS.


Gerry



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[Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 55, Issue 19

2008-02-20 Thread Peter Sprague
> From: Matthew Voogt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: 
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 00:27:11 -0500
> To: 
> Subject: [Finale] The Finale School
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> My name is Matthew Voogt. I am new to the list and would just like to
> say hello. I have a website called The Finale School
> (http://www.thefinaleschool.com
> ).
> 
> It is a website that is totally free and offers video tutorials about
> anything and everything related to Finale. Check it out... let me know
> what you think.
> 
> -Matt


Excellent work you've done! Keep it going...adios, Peter


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[Fwd: Re: [Finale] Invisible Score]

2008-02-20 Thread Barbara Touburg

(Resending the post because it seems the first time it never arrived)

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [Finale] Invisible Score
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:26:09 +0100
From: Barbara Touburg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: finale@shsu.edu
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

You could check the system margins settings. I'd be willing to take a
look, if you send me the file.

Gerry Kirk wrote:
>  Thanks for your ideas Barbara, Noel, and Robert. I tried all of your
> suggestions a couple times, and in different sequences. Still no score
> is visible (yet parts print just fine, and the score is visible in
> scroll view).
>
> Robert, I suspect you are correct that the problem resides in my
> original 97b version of Finale. Unfortunately, I cannot open that
> application on my Mac in OS 10.4. I have nothing that supports the
> former OS.
>
> Gerry



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Re: [Finale] Using the IAC Driver bus, for Playback from Finale2008a/Sibelius5 from a Sequencer (Digital Performer 5.12)

2008-02-20 Thread A-NO-NE Music
Bob Morabito / 08.2.20 / 0:41 AM wrote:

>but I then went to Sibelius, and it didn't--
>
>what would I change there to make it work there also?
>I couldn't find any Interapplication Midi there

Sorry.  I know nothing about Sib.  But Sib should see DP's ports from
its MIDI config if you started Sib after DP published the ports.

>Cant you create as many ports as needed in the IAC bus?

I see.  It seems you can create multiple ports.  I have never done it
with IAC bus.  I will try to find a time to do a comparison sometime.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 



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Re: [Finale] OT: None Finale question for computer buffs

2008-02-20 Thread A-NO-NE Music
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 08.2.20 / 6:16 AM wrote:

>I've had this happen on three or four computers over the years. Maybe  it is 
>something I'm doing then, I just don't know, but a computer lecturer at  our 
>local university reckoned it was a common feature.

I think so, too.
Ever since OSX became stable enough for me to do all the network stuff,
I don't do Windows much these days.  I have 3 PCs here.  One of them
takes 10 minutes to boot even in safe mode, like yours.  The other one
is muento slow.  The last one is still doing OK but this machine I got
after I moved all the tasks to OSX, and I don't work on this machine
much anymore - small tasks like browser compatibilities for my web designs.

When I was doing Windows back then, it was my routine to image C: upon
clean install plus Office install to D:, and refresh C: from the image
every 6 month, or I get the symptom you described.  One of the biggest
reasons I stick with Mac OS is there is no messy registry biz.

>Thanks David for your suggestions and links - I'll try those when I get in  
>from work.

I never saw that post.  Is this how my posts sometime getting ignored?
:-)

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 



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Re: [Finale] OT: None Finale question for computer buffs

2008-02-20 Thread dhbailey

Aaron Sherber wrote:

At 03:33 AM 2/20/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 >I understand, and experience seems to bear this out, that computers 
running
 >under WindowsXP will gradually run slower and slower over a period of  
time.


I'm not sure why this would be so, and it certainly has not been my 
personal experience.




I've experienced it and it often comes from badly behaved applications 
which when they are uninstalled don't remove all registry references, 
leaving the OS trying to locate the applications upon startup.  Other 
causes are often device drivers which don't uninstall when the hardware 
is no longer in use, such as when a video card or sound card is 
replaced.  Yet other causes are applications which think so much of 
themselves that they feel you will obviously want them to run from the 
moment you start your computer and so install themselves in the Startup 
folder.  Removing the shortcuts from that folder remedies that situation 
but others don't install themselves that way and require the user to run 
msconfig and disable them in the Startup tab.


Not everybody encounters this slowdown, but many people do.

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] OT: None Finale question for computer buffs

2008-02-20 Thread YATESLAWRENCE
Hi,
 
I've had this happen on three or four computers over the years. Maybe  it is 
something I'm doing then, I just don't know, but a computer lecturer at  our 
local university reckoned it was a common feature.  He was the chap who  knows 
how to do it but reckons it's not easy to do for someone who is not a  
computer expert.  (Of course, this may be another "magic circle"  ploy!)
 
 
Thanks David for your suggestions and links - I'll try those when I get in  
from work.
 
lawrenceyates.co.uk



   
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Re: [Finale] OT: None Finale question for computer buffs

2008-02-20 Thread Aaron Sherber

At 03:33 AM 2/20/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I understand, and experience seems to bear this out, that computers running
>under WindowsXP will gradually run slower and slower over a period of  time.

I'm not sure why this would be so, and it certainly has not been my 
personal experience.


Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius -- which is truly faster?

2008-02-20 Thread Eric Dannewitz
TGTools is really what makes Finale shine. I can't imagine using
Finale without it.


On 2/19/08, Darcy James Argue <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What, specifically, is slowing you down in Finale? My general
>  impression is that Sibelius is still somewhat easier to learn, but
>  expert Finale users can work more quickly and more efficiently,
>  especially if you make full use of third-party plugins.
>
>  Back when I was a regular Sibelius user (v1.4), I found Finale MUCH
>  faster to use -- mostly due to metatools, which were a huge advantage
>  over Sib's methods for placing things like articulations and fingering
>  numbers, etc. But that was years ago -- I am only just now starting to
>  re-learn Sibelius (now up to v5.1) and I'm sure there are likely more
>  efficient ways of working now than there were back then.
>
>  Cheers,
>
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Re: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius -- which is truly faster?

2008-02-20 Thread Eric Dannewitz
*Yawn*

Yeah, you go Bob..

On 2/19/08, Bob Morabito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well said, David..
>
>  Peace, Bob Morabito
>
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Re: [Finale] The Finale School

2008-02-20 Thread dhbailey

Matthew Voogt wrote:

Hello Everyone,

My name is Matthew Voogt. I am new to the list and would just like to 
say hello. I have a website called The Finale School 
(http://www.thefinaleschool.com).


It is a website that is totally free and offers video tutorials about 
anything and everything related to Finale. Check it out... let me know 
what you think.


-Matt
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Good luck to you.

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius -- which is truly faster?

2008-02-20 Thread dhbailey

Darcy James Argue wrote:
What, specifically, is slowing you down in Finale? My general impression 
is that Sibelius is still somewhat easier to learn, but expert Finale 
users can work more quickly and more efficiently, especially if you make 
full use of third-party plugins.


Back when I was a regular Sibelius user (v1.4), I found Finale MUCH 
faster to use -- mostly due to metatools, which were a huge advantage 
over Sib's methods for placing things like articulations and fingering 
numbers, etc. But that was years ago -- I am only just now starting to 
re-learn Sibelius (now up to v5.1) and I'm sure there are likely more 
efficient ways of working now than there were back then.




I started with Sibelius2 and I also found it incredibly slower than I 
was able to work in Finale.  But with each new version things have 
gotten streamlined and I find now that I can work equally fast in either 
program.


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[Finale] OT: None Finale question for computer buffs

2008-02-20 Thread YATESLAWRENCE
I understand, and experience seems to bear this out, that computers running  
under WindowsXP will gradually run slower and slower over a period of  time.
 
I am also told that there is a way to correct this (apart from things like  
defragging and erasing temp files).  I am also assured that this is not  easy 
to do but is in fact possible. It was implied, though not stated, that it  
involved, amongst other things, mucking about with things in the registry.
 
If all this is true, does anyone know where I might find instructions on  how 
to do this (or even tell me in an email how I can do it)
 
I currently have two all but unusable computers because even booting up is  
taking ten minutes or more.  Yes I have anti-virus software on one of them,  
the other one is never used online and so has had it removed (someone suggested 
 
that the slow speed was due to the AV software).  Erasing files made no  
difference either nor did de-fragging)
 
Thanks,
 
Lawrence
 
lawrenceyates.co.uk



   
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