[Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
I need to show two different bar lines in two different staves in the same measure. The staves are grouped together. The measure attributes will change all of the bar lines in the same way and it looks like there's no way to create a staff style with such a behavior. Is there any way to accomplish this? Giovanni Giovanni Andreani www.giovanniandreani.eu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
Crikey! I cancelled all the recipient addresses except for the finale@shsu.edu. How did you see I clicked another thread? Giovanni Andreani www.giovanniandreani.eu Le 18/01/2012 09:45, Giovanni Andreani écrit : I need to show two different bar lines in two different staves in the same measure. The staves are grouped together. The measure attributes will change all of the bar lines in the same way and it looks like there's no way to create a staff style with such a behavior. Is there any way to accomplish this? Not an answer to your question, but a suggestion that might help you get more replies: instead of clicking on another thread, you should start a new one, or your message will be lost for those of us who sort by thread. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
I apologize for the double thread; I'm reposting this message thank's to Dennis' advice about not clicking on an old thread for creating a new one. I need to show two different bar lines in two different staves in the same measure. The staves are grouped together. The measure attributes will change all of the bar lines in the same way and it looks like there's no way to create a staff style with such a behavior. Is there any way to accomplish this? Giovanni Giovanni Andreani www.giovanniandreani.eu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
As always with my replies, someone will reply afterwards with a proper solution... ;-) I just use smart-shape lines to do this. Steve Parker On 18 Jan 2012, at 10:30, Giovanni Andreani wrote: I apologize for the double thread; I'm reposting this message thank's to Dennis' advice about not clicking on an old thread for creating a new one. I need to show two different bar lines in two different staves in the same measure. The staves are grouped together. The measure attributes will change all of the bar lines in the same way and it looks like there's no way to create a staff style with such a behavior. Is there any way to accomplish this? Giovanni Giovanni Andreani www.giovanniandreani.eu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
For the moment all I can think of is this: Hide certain bar lines with a staff style, then replace them with graphic bar lines created with the Expression tool. Michael On 18 Jan 2012, at 11:30, Giovanni Andreani wrote: I apologize for the double thread; I'm reposting this message thank's to Dennis' advice about not clicking on an old thread for creating a new one. I need to show two different bar lines in two different staves in the same measure. The staves are grouped together. The measure attributes will change all of the bar lines in the same way and it looks like there's no way to create a staff style with such a behavior. Is there any way to accomplish this? Giovanni Giovanni Andreani www.giovanniandreani.eu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
Hi Giovanni, I think the only way is to create a large measure, then add in the barlines as expressions. I think recent versions of Finale already have barlines created as expressions for this purpose. You might have to mess around with music spacing to recreate the space after a barline that is normally there. My first reaction to that problem would be to have an articulation that is a blank character attached to the first note of the measure and set its positioning so that it creates the extra space automatically, while making sure articulations are taken into account when music spacing is invoked. Christopher On Wed Jan 18, at WednesdayJan 18 5:30 AM, Giovanni Andreani wrote: I apologize for the double thread; I'm reposting this message thank's to Dennis' advice about not clicking on an old thread for creating a new one. I need to show two different bar lines in two different staves in the same measure. The staves are grouped together. The measure attributes will change all of the bar lines in the same way and it looks like there's no way to create a staff style with such a behavior. Is there any way to accomplish this? Giovanni Giovanni Andreani www.giovanniandreani.eu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
There are so many kluges. For many measures that need separate barlines, I use barlines as lyrics and type them in. Dennis On Wed, January 18, 2012 6:02 am, Christopher Smith wrote: Hi Giovanni, I think the only way is to create a large measure, then add in the barlines as expressions. I think recent versions of Finale already have barlines created as expressions for this purpose. You might have to mess around with music spacing to recreate the space after a barline that is normally there. My first reaction to that problem would be to have an articulation that is a blank character attached to the first note of the measure and set its positioning so that it creates the extra space automatically, while making sure articulations are taken into account when music spacing is invoked. Christopher On Wed Jan 18, at WednesdayJan 18 5:30 AM, Giovanni Andreani wrote: I apologize for the double thread; I'm reposting this message thank's to Dennis' advice about not clicking on an old thread for creating a new one. I need to show two different bar lines in two different staves in the same measure. The staves are grouped together. The measure attributes will change all of the bar lines in the same way and it looks like there's no way to create a staff style with such a behavior. Is there any way to accomplish this? Giovanni ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
for this, i would also *definitely* use a shape expression (and regularly do). set its positioning in relation to the right barline. don't use a smart shape, if the measure width and / or layout is changed, the vertical angle (whcih you hope is 90 degrees) may change, and then you may have to adjust all instances of the smart shape. if you apply a shape expression manually each time (place it at the top of your category list for quick access) instead of setting it up as a metatool, its positioning and appearance can later be changed globally if needed. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
It depends on exactly what you need to do. You can hide barlines with a staff style, then override them with group barlines. In most cases where I have needed to do this I have not had to resort to expressions except on single staves. For single staves, the barline symbols in the Sonata font come in very handy. On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:25 AM, SN jef chippewa shirl...@newmusicnotation.com wrote: for this, i would also *definitely* use a shape expression (and regularly do). set its positioning in relation to the right barline. don't use a smart shape, if the measure width and / or layout is changed, the vertical angle (whcih you hope is 90 degrees) may change, and then you may have to adjust all instances of the smart shape. if you apply a shape expression manually each time (place it at the top of your category list for quick access) instead of setting it up as a metatool, its positioning and appearance can later be changed globally if needed. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll try to use a shape expression, as Jef Chippewa suggests. The reason for this is that I need to represent two melodies, the second being performed as a canon and starting on measure 2 with measure 1 hidden, thus ending one measure later, showing a double bar line; the same double bar line will have to show in the last but one measure on the top staff (with its very last measure hidden) Giovanni Andreani www.giovanniandreani.eu It depends on exactly what you need to do. You can hide barlines with a staff style, then override them with group barlines. In most cases where I have needed to do this I have not had to resort to expressions except on single staves. For single staves, the barline symbols in the Sonata font come in very handy. On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:25 AM, SN jef chippewa shirl...@newmusicnotation.com wrote: for this, i would also *definitely* use a shape expression (and regularly do). set its positioning in relation to the right barline. don't use a smart shape, if the measure width and / or layout is changed, the vertical angle (whcih you hope is 90 degrees) may change, and then you may have to adjust all instances of the smart shape. if you apply a shape expression manually each time (place it at the top of your category list for quick access) instead of setting it up as a metatool, its positioning and appearance can later be changed globally if needed. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
Wha...? My mind is boggling right now. This means that you need to enter an entry (note or rest) to attach the lyric, that is then hidden, and affects music spacing in the staves that DON'T have a barline at the same place. My solution for added space using blank articulations means that the extra space is there in the score, but clears out on the extracted parts in the other staves. Can you detail your procedure a bit more? Christopher On Wed Jan 18, at WednesdayJan 18 7:15 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: There are so many kluges. For many measures that need separate barlines, I use barlines as lyrics and type them in. Dennis On Wed, January 18, 2012 6:02 am, Christopher Smith wrote: Hi Giovanni, I think the only way is to create a large measure, then add in the barlines as expressions. I think recent versions of Finale already have barlines created as expressions for this purpose. You might have to mess around with music spacing to recreate the space after a barline that is normally there. My first reaction to that problem would be to have an articulation that is a blank character attached to the first note of the measure and set its positioning so that it creates the extra space automatically, while making sure articulations are taken into account when music spacing is invoked. Christopher On Wed Jan 18, at WednesdayJan 18 5:30 AM, Giovanni Andreani wrote: I apologize for the double thread; I'm reposting this message thank's to Dennis' advice about not clicking on an old thread for creating a new one. I need to show two different bar lines in two different staves in the same measure. The staves are grouped together. The measure attributes will change all of the bar lines in the same way and it looks like there's no way to create a staff style with such a behavior. Is there any way to accomplish this? Giovanni ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
May I don't grasp the original post. It sounds like he needs staggered barlines (as I think we used to call them). For this, hiding 'real' barlines and using barlines as lyrics means they can space themselves the same in all parts they affect. It doesn't work in every situation, though. I've used expressions, too. Just offering another option until Finale gives us real staggered barlines (after I'm long dead). Dennis On Wed, January 18, 2012 8:22 am, Christopher Smith wrote: Wha...? My mind is boggling right now. This means that you need to enter an entry (note or rest) to attach the lyric, that is then hidden, and affects music spacing in the staves that DON'T have a barline at the same place. My solution for added space using blank articulations means that the extra space is there in the score, but clears out on the extracted parts in the other staves. Can you detail your procedure a bit more? Christopher On Wed Jan 18, at WednesdayJan 18 7:15 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: There are so many kluges. For many measures that need separate barlines, I use barlines as lyrics and type them in. Dennis On Wed, January 18, 2012 6:02 am, Christopher Smith wrote: Hi Giovanni, I think the only way is to create a large measure, then add in the barlines as expressions. I think recent versions of Finale already have barlines created as expressions for this purpose. You might have to mess around with music spacing to recreate the space after a barline that is normally there. My first reaction to that problem would be to have an articulation that is a blank character attached to the first note of the measure and set its positioning so that it creates the extra space automatically, while making sure articulations are taken into account when music spacing is invoked. Christopher On Wed Jan 18, at WednesdayJan 18 5:30 AM, Giovanni Andreani wrote: I apologize for the double thread; I'm reposting this message thank's to Dennis' advice about not clicking on an old thread for creating a new one. I need to show two different bar lines in two different staves in the same measure. The staves are grouped together. The measure attributes will change all of the bar lines in the same way and it looks like there's no way to create a staff style with such a behavior. Is there any way to accomplish this? Giovanni ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
ah! right, never thought of using the / character (engraverfontset 24 pt) for a barline as a text expression but it could be done that way too quite well. but it is way too thin for me, i just tested and it seems to be 3.125 EVPUs thin (yuck). but i suppose if you use the finale templates this is a much better solution than the shape expression approach i mentioned For many measures that need separate barlines, I use barlines as lyrics and type them in. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
In this case (and given that the piece is not too long), I would enter all on one line. It requires planning how many bars per system. I then would enter say 6 bars of part 1 followed by 5 bars of part two. All the music in the middle can be entered normally and then the opposite at the end. This is easier than it sounds and not difficult to line up nor to fudge part names etc. Steve Parker On 18 Jan 2012, at 13:19, Giovanni Andreani wrote: The reason for this is that I need to represent two melodies, the second being performed as a canon and starting on measure 2 with measure 1 hidden, thus ending one measure later, showing a double bar line; the same double bar line will have to show in the last but one measure on the top staff (with its very last measure hidden) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
No, I think you got it. And I just got it, too—by nudging the lyric barline you don't need an extra entry. But you need at least ONE entry in the measure to attach the lyric barline to. If a part has rests, it isn't possible. Or is it? Christopher On Wed Jan 18, at WednesdayJan 18 8:32 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: May I don't grasp the original post. It sounds like he needs staggered barlines (as I think we used to call them). For this, hiding 'real' barlines and using barlines as lyrics means they can space themselves the same in all parts they affect. It doesn't work in every situation, though. I've used expressions, too. Just offering another option until Finale gives us real staggered barlines (after I'm long dead). Dennis On Wed, January 18, 2012 8:22 am, Christopher Smith wrote: Wha...? My mind is boggling right now. This means that you need to enter an entry (note or rest) to attach the lyric, that is then hidden, and affects music spacing in the staves that DON'T have a barline at the same place. My solution for added space using blank articulations means that the extra space is there in the score, but clears out on the extracted parts in the other staves. Can you detail your procedure a bit more? Christopher On Wed Jan 18, at WednesdayJan 18 7:15 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: There are so many kluges. For many measures that need separate barlines, I use barlines as lyrics and type them in. Dennis On Wed, January 18, 2012 6:02 am, Christopher Smith wrote: Hi Giovanni, I think the only way is to create a large measure, then add in the barlines as expressions. I think recent versions of Finale already have barlines created as expressions for this purpose. You might have to mess around with music spacing to recreate the space after a barline that is normally there. My first reaction to that problem would be to have an articulation that is a blank character attached to the first note of the measure and set its positioning so that it creates the extra space automatically, while making sure articulations are taken into account when music spacing is invoked. Christopher On Wed Jan 18, at WednesdayJan 18 5:30 AM, Giovanni Andreani wrote: I apologize for the double thread; I'm reposting this message thank's to Dennis' advice about not clicking on an old thread for creating a new one. I need to show two different bar lines in two different staves in the same measure. The staves are grouped together. The measure attributes will change all of the bar lines in the same way and it looks like there's no way to create a staff style with such a behavior. Is there any way to accomplish this? Giovanni ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
Rests? What are rests? OOOH, those things performers tell me I use too few of. :) Seriously, I don't recall how I handled those things... haven't done it in a while, certainly way before linked parts (and probably many other recent Finale developments that have made difficult things easier). But I will have to explore it again. I have a client job coming in March that will strain my skills. It will call for lots of staggered barlines, curved staves, etc. Dennis On Wed, January 18, 2012 9:38 am, Christopher Smith wrote: No, I think you got it. And I just got it, too—by nudging the lyric barline you don't need an extra entry. But you need at least ONE entry in the measure to attach the lyric barline to. If a part has rests, it isn't possible. Or is it? Christopher On Wed Jan 18, at WednesdayJan 18 8:32 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: May I don't grasp the original post. It sounds like he needs staggered barlines (as I think we used to call them). For this, hiding 'real' barlines and using barlines as lyrics means they can space themselves the same in all parts they affect. It doesn't work in every situation, though. I've used expressions, too. Just offering another option until Finale gives us real staggered barlines (after I'm long dead). Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
On Jan 18, 2012, at 6:38 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: No, I think you got it. And I just got it, too—by nudging the lyric barline you don't need an extra entry. But you need at least ONE entry in the measure to attach the lyric barline to. If a part has rests, it isn't possible. Or is it? Lyrics can be attached to rests. I do that often. (Well, maybe not OFTEN, but often enough that I remember it can be done.) mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
Note, also, that there is all the difference on the world (according to Finale) between a rest that you enter and a rest that it generates to fill empty measures. Dr. Benjamin Ayotte http://www.ayottemusic.com Sent from my iPhone On Jan 18, 2012, at 14:56, Mark D Lew markd...@earthlink.net wrote: On Jan 18, 2012, at 6:38 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: No, I think you got it. And I just got it, too—by nudging the lyric barline you don't need an extra entry. But you need at least ONE entry in the measure to attach the lyric barline to. If a part has rests, it isn't possible. Or is it? Lyrics can be attached to rests. I do that often. (Well, maybe not OFTEN, but often enough that I remember it can be done.) mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Different Bar Lines in Same Score's Measure
On Wed Jan 18, at WednesdayJan 18 2:56 PM, Mark D Lew wrote: On Jan 18, 2012, at 6:38 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: No, I think you got it. And I just got it, too—by nudging the lyric barline you don't need an extra entry. But you need at least ONE entry in the measure to attach the lyric barline to. If a part has rests, it isn't possible. Or is it? Lyrics can be attached to rests. I do that often. (Well, maybe not OFTEN, but often enough that I remember it can be done.) Yes, but if a part has several measures rest, you won't be able to accomplish it in the same way. One measure of rest, okay, you can enter a real rest (instead of a default rest) but more than that and you might be better off with my option. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
