Re: [Finale] nudge different according to view percent
Richard Yates wrote: Jari's suggestion that this be an option seems best for the variety of methods. I've submitted a feature request about this now (don't remember if I actually did that in the past). Anyone that feel strongly about this subject, please do the same. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] nudge different according to view percent
I have found the view percentage is most accurate when it is set to represent the true full scale of the music font. That is, when the system is reduced to 50%, the most accurate views are 200%, or 400%. If the reduction is 85%, the view should be 118% or 235%. (Divide 100 by the reduction size to find the correct view size. You have to round to the nearest whole number in Finale). I think this has to do with the design of the screen fonts which are directly related to their resolution on the screen. (You're trying to make a 24pt character, for example, look as close to real 24pt size on screen). This is an attempt to bypass the computers efforts to portray the shape of the characters by fudging how they look at sizes other than that true resolution of the font. Things have improved since the early days of WYSIWYG, but you can still be more confident of the printed output with accurate view resolutions. If the page has no reduction, view sizes in multiples of 100% will be most accurate, but only for text blocks, etc. attached to the page itself. Mark Ralston mac...@bellsouth.net ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] nudge different according to view percent
> >And going the other direction, too. If you are in wide view, nudge > >something and it goes too far, the intuitive thing to do (for my > >intuition at least!) would be to nudge it back, then zoom in > and nudge > >it again. If it nudged the same distance in the score I would be > >complaining about it. > > REALLY!? you mean when you are dealing with the look of the > score you think it is better to change view percentages? Better than what? > in my view, it is best to do as much as possible at the same > view so that what you see is on the same scale as much as > possible. this ensures a much greater consistency. and you > can work quicker, not having to zoom in and out and drag teh > page as often. then for the few cases where you need a more > fine view, you zoom in. Well, that's just what I was saying, "when you need a more fine view you zoom in." And when you do zoom in you want finer control of movement. > in my experience, the types of collisions that you need to > move things for are very often on a similar scale (distance > between items on score, not screen), therefore it seems to em > to make sense that the default be to move by "score" distances. To quote you: "REALLY!?" The nudge of a fingering number in front of a notehead is very small since I autoplace them with a metatool. Moving an expression is often much larger. Moving a barline might be another distance entirely. Jari's suggestion that this be an option seems best for the variety of methods. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] nudge different according to view percent
On 12/18/2009 11:21 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote: REALLY!? you mean when you are dealing with the look of the score you think it is better to change view percentages? It's funny, my instinct is to agree with Richard, but I think I've just been well trained by Finale. In layout programs like InDesign, the arrow keys nudge by fixed distances, not related to view percentages, as jef suggests. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] nudge different according to view percent
And going the other direction, too. If you are in wide view, nudge something and it goes too far, the intuitive thing to do (for my intuition at least!) would be to nudge it back, then zoom in and nudge it again. If it nudged the same distance in the score I would be complaining about it. REALLY!? you mean when you are dealing with the look of the score you think it is better to change view percentages? in my view, it is best to do as much as possible at the same view so that what you see is on the same scale as much as possible. this ensures a much greater consistency. and you can work quicker, not having to zoom in and out and drag teh page as often. then for the few cases where you need a more fine view, you zoom in. in my experience, the types of collisions that you need to move things for are very often on a similar scale (distance between items on score, not screen), therefore it seems to em to make sense that the default be to move by "score" distances. for people who are less concerned than others about the real geeky details about positioning, or who prefer to approach this purely visually, there is the drag method. :-) but i have spent a lot of time perfecting the auto-positioning of a range of expression categories and once placed in the score (at default positions) i nudge where possible, or type values into the positioning dialogue. then, if necessary, i drag, nudge or retype value, according to the circumstance. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] nudge different according to view percent
It seems the most logical to me (genuinely a feature, not a bug). If you are in a highly magnified view, presumably you want to make very small adjustments; if you are in a wider view you want larger ones. Also, it means that you can quickly change how far nudging nudges by switching view percentage - far easier than changing the setting for number of pixels nudged in program Options. Richard Yates > yeah, well, i know... but somehow... i was hoping against the > odds that i had misunderstood something. is there a valid > reason for items to nudge according to the screen pixels and > not in relation to the music they are associated with? > > >>is this because the setting is related to the screen pixel > and not the > >>score itself? > > > >Yes, nudging has always been based on screen pixels. At the "Program > >Options/Edit" page it even says "Arrow Keys Nudge Items By ___ > >Pixel(s)". > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] nudge different according to view percent
> Probably because some people would think the feature was > broken otherwise (when zooming out and the items doesn't seem > to move visually at a keyboard nudge). And going the other direction, too. If you are in wide view, nudge something and it goes too far, the intuitive thing to do (for my intuition at least!) would be to nudge it back, then zoom in and nudge it again. If it nudged the same distance in the score I would be complaining about it. > I have also wanted > nudge to be score-measurement related in the past, an option > on how it should behave here would be nice. Yes, the option would be good. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] nudge different according to view percent
I have also wanted nudge to be score-measurement related in the past, an option on how it should behave here would be nice. like this? default programme setting by manufacturer = 1 EVPU; definable by user to any value - arrow = nudge by default value - sh-arrow = nudge 2x default value opt-arrow = nudge by 1/2 space (12 EVPU), this is hard-wired and the value cannot be changed (?) a checkbox (default by manufacturer is unchecked) allows the user to "invert behaviour" (normal/option) - unchecked = nudge by definable value - checked = nudge by 1/2 space value (shit-arrow = full space) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] nudge different according to view percent
SN jef chippewa wrote: is there a valid reason for items to nudge according to the screen pixels and not in relation to the music they are associated with? Probably because some people would think the feature was broken otherwise (when zooming out and the items doesn't seem to move visually at a keyboard nudge). I have also wanted nudge to be score-measurement related in the past, an option on how it should behave here would be nice. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] nudge different according to view percent
yeah, well, i know... but somehow... i was hoping against the odds that i had misunderstood something. is there a valid reason for items to nudge according to the screen pixels and not in relation to the music they are associated with? is this because the setting is related to the screen pixel and not the score itself? Yes, nudging has always been based on screen pixels. At the "Program Options/Edit" page it even says "Arrow Keys Nudge Items By ___ Pixel(s)". ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] nudge different according to view percent
SN jef chippewa wrote: is this because the setting is related to the screen pixel and not the score itself? Yes, nudging has always been based on screen pixels. At the "Program Options/Edit" page it even says "Arrow Keys Nudge Items By ___ Pixel(s)". Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] nudge different according to view percent
is anyone aware of some internal logic to this? my default setting is arrows nudge 1px. at different view percentages a single nudge has different effects. and the effects are different in scroll and page view. is this because the setting is related to the screen pixel and not the score itself? page and scroll columns below are the EVPU values of one nudge. view% pagescroll 50 10 8 75 7 5 100 5 4 200 3 2 400+1 1 the discrepancy is made worse by the fact that the effects are different yet again for a score at a smaller scaling than the part. here the nudges are for 65% system scaling, compare with list above: view% page 50 12 75 8 100 6 200 3 400 2 500+1 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
