Re: [Finale] Disappearing scrolls with OS 10.8.5
On 2013-10-17 18:14, Eric Fiedler wrote: > We've just installed Mac OS 10.8.5 on our three-year-old > iMac (core i7) and are beginning to experience some weird > behavior, such as disappearing scroll bars in the speedy > entry and key change windows. My first thought was to trash > the preferences … but couldn't find them. Can anyone tell me where > they've gotten to in FinMac 2012c? > I'd also be grateful for any other relevant suggestions or comments. Isn't it just the arrows of the scroll bars that are gone? The arrows have been removed by Apple in recent OSX versions. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disappearing scrolls with OS 10.8.5
Yes, and window scroll bars are no longer persistent — they come and go as needed, iOS style. It's not a Finale thing. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On Oct 17, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Jari Williamsson wrote: > On 2013-10-17 18:14, Eric Fiedler wrote: > >> We've just installed Mac OS 10.8.5 on our three-year-old >> iMac (core i7) and are beginning to experience some weird >> behavior, such as disappearing scroll bars in the speedy >> entry and key change windows. My first thought was to trash >> the preferences … but couldn't find them. Can anyone tell me where >> they've gotten to in FinMac 2012c? >> I'd also be grateful for any other relevant suggestions or comments. > > Isn't it just the arrows of the scroll bars that are gone? The arrows > have been removed by Apple in recent OSX versions. > > > Best regards, > > Jari Williamsson > > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disappearing scrolls with OS 10.8.5
Hi Jari and Darcy, Thanks for the input. I know about the iOS-style non-persistent scroll bars in windows in general. My problem was/is the absence of arrows, for instance, in the key signature tool, where we used to be able to change the number of flats or sharps in a signature by clicking on the up- or down-arrow at the right of the little box.. I have since discovered, that I can do this by clicking in the blank space slightly to the right of the little box (where the arrows used to be). But, I mean, what kind of interface is _that_!? The absence of a scroll bar in Scroll View is also not exactly intuitive, but one can live with that. And where the heck _are_ the preference files anyway? Cheers! Eric * Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler) www.habsburgerverlag.de webmas...@habsburgerverlag.de * On 17.10.2013, at 23:57, Darcy James Argue wrote: > Yes, and window scroll bars are no longer persistent — they come and go as > needed, iOS style. It's not a Finale thing. > > Cheers, > > - DJA > - > WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org > > On Oct 17, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Jari Williamsson > wrote: > >> On 2013-10-17 18:14, Eric Fiedler wrote: >> >>> We've just installed Mac OS 10.8.5 on our three-year-old >>> iMac (core i7) and are beginning to experience some weird >>> behavior, such as disappearing scroll bars in the speedy >>> entry and key change windows. My first thought was to trash >>> the preferences … but couldn't find them. Can anyone tell me where >>> they've gotten to in FinMac 2012c? >>> I'd also be grateful for any other relevant suggestions or comments. >> >> Isn't it just the arrows of the scroll bars that are gone? The arrows >> have been removed by Apple in recent OSX versions. >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Jari Williamsson >> >> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disappearing scrolls with OS 10.8.5
> But, I mean, what kind of interface is _that_!? Not a good one. Scroll bars shouldn't be being used for incremental changes such as those found in the Key Signature or Time Signature tools. Apple has provided up/down arrows to be used where a value can be altered by set increments. Finale actually uses these arrows in other situations: you can see them, for instance, in the Playback Controls window. Next to the arrows is a field where you can enter a numerical value directly if you prefer. If you want to always see scroll bars in Mac OS X, you can set this in System Preferences> General. For those places in Finale where scroll bars are being used instead of the more appropriate arrows + number field, tell MakeMusic about it. I have already voiced my displeasure here and I know that others have done the same. It's the usual story: if more users show dissatisfaction, MakeMusic are more likely to do something about it. Best wishes, Michael ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disappearing scrolls with OS 10.8.5
Thanks, Michael, the "System Preferences>General" is a good tip. What I'm talking about you can see on the following link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hyt99as8d5si7dj/Screen%20Shot%202013-10-18.tiff While I do understand that Apple doesn't like scroll bars anymore, you must admit that such a dialog box might be a little confusing for beginners and professionals alike. It certainly was for me! MM, are you listening? BTW: do you know where the Finale Preferences have gone to? Cheers! Eric * Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler) www.habsburgerverlag.de webmas...@habsburgerverlag.de * On 18.10.2013, at 10:23, Michael wrote: >> But, I mean, what kind of interface is _that_!? > > Not a good one. Scroll bars shouldn't be being used for incremental changes > such as those found in the Key Signature or Time Signature tools. Apple has > provided up/down arrows to be used where a value can be altered by set > increments. Finale actually uses these arrows in other situations: you can > see them, for instance, in the Playback Controls window. Next to the arrows > is a field where you can enter a numerical value directly if you prefer. > > If you want to always see scroll bars in Mac OS X, you can set this in System > Preferences> General. > > For those places in Finale where scroll bars are being used instead of the > more appropriate arrows + number field, tell MakeMusic about it. I have > already voiced my displeasure here and I know that others have done the same. > It's the usual story: if more users show dissatisfaction, MakeMusic are more > likely to do something about it. > > Best wishes, > Michael > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disappearing scrolls with OS 10.8.5
Sadly, the change to "Always Show Scroll Bars" in SystPrefs>General didn't help and I'm still confronted with the following dialog box when I want to change the key signature: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hyt99as8d5si7dj/Screen%20Shot%202013-10-18.tiff While I can deal with it (by clicking where the scroll bar arrows used to be), I think this just might qualify as a BUG (at least in Mac OS 10.8.5). What does the congregation think? Cheers! Eric * Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler) www.habsburgerverlag.de webmas...@habsburgerverlag.de * On 18.10.2013, at 12:08, Eric Fiedler wrote: > Thanks, Michael, the "System Preferences>General" is a good tip. What I'm > talking about you can see on the following link: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hyt99as8d5si7dj/Screen%20Shot%202013-10-18.tiff > > While I do understand that Apple doesn't like scroll bars anymore, you must > admit that such a dialog box might be a little confusing for beginners and > professionals alike. It certainly was for me! MM, are you listening? > BTW: do you know where the Finale Preferences have gone to? > Cheers! > Eric > > * > Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler) > www.habsburgerverlag.de > webmas...@habsburgerverlag.de > * > > On 18.10.2013, at 10:23, Michael wrote: > >>> But, I mean, what kind of interface is _that_!? >> >> Not a good one. Scroll bars shouldn't be being used for incremental changes >> such as those found in the Key Signature or Time Signature tools. Apple has >> provided up/down arrows to be used where a value can be altered by set >> increments. Finale actually uses these arrows in other situations: you can >> see them, for instance, in the Playback Controls window. Next to the arrows >> is a field where you can enter a numerical value directly if you prefer. >> >> If you want to always see scroll bars in Mac OS X, you can set this in >> System Preferences> General. >> >> For those places in Finale where scroll bars are being used instead of the >> more appropriate arrows + number field, tell MakeMusic about it. I have >> already voiced my displeasure here and I know that others have done the >> same. It's the usual story: if more users show dissatisfaction, MakeMusic >> are more likely to do something about it. >> >> Best wishes, >> Michael >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disappearing scrolls with OS 10.8.5
On 18 Oct 2013, at 12:54, Eric Fiedler wrote: > Sadly, the change to "Always Show Scroll Bars" in SystPrefs>General didn't > help and I'm still confronted with the following dialog box when I want to > change the key signature: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hyt99as8d5si7dj/Screen%20Shot%202013-10-18.tiff Yes, I know. The scrolling arrows are gone from Mac OS X since I can't remember when and I'm sure Apple isn't going to bring them back. That doesn't alter the fact that MakeMusic is using scroll bars where it shouldn't: > Scroll bars shouldn't be being used for incremental changes such as those > found in the Key Signature or Time Signature tools. And further: > Apple has provided up/down arrows to be used where a value can be altered by > set increments. Finale actually uses these arrows in other situations: you > can see them, for instance, in the Playback Controls window. Next to the > arrows is a field where you can enter a numerical value directly if you > prefer. As I said, I, and others, have already told MakeMusic that we need proper incremental controls in the Key Signature and Time Signature dialogs. Tell theme as well! Best wishes, Michael ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disappearing scrolls with OS 10.8.5
While it is true that MM now needs to change many of the scroll bars to other types of incremental controls, I can't get myself to be too upset with them. They are victims of Apple's capricious de-functionalization of scroll bars as much as we are. More so, really, because making the change will cost them a whole lot more than living with the crippled scroll bars costs us. That said, the scroll bars still can respond to incremental hits: all that was removed is the UI. I have created iKey macros to do incremental hits on scroll bars, and that works as well or better for me in some Finale contexts. On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Eric Fiedler wrote: > Friends, > We've just installed Mac OS 10.8.5 on our three-year-old iMac (core i7) > and are beginning to experience some weird behavior, such as disappearing > scroll bars in the speedy entry and key change windows. My first thought > was to trash the preferences … but couldn't find them. Can anyone tell me > where they've gotten to in FinMac 2012c? > I'd also be grateful for any other relevant suggestions or comments. > Thanks! > Eric > * > Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler) > www.habsburgerverlag.de > webmas...@habsburgerverlag.de > * > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disappearing scrolls with OS 10.8.5
And there is an app called "Smart Scroll" that works well for me. I recommend it. Chuck Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 18, 2013, at 5:42 AM, Robert Patterson > wrote: > > While it is true that MM now needs to change many of the scroll bars to > other types of incremental controls, I can't get myself to be too upset > with them. They are victims of Apple's capricious de-functionalization of > scroll bars as much as we are. More so, really, because making the change > will cost them a whole lot more than living with the crippled scroll bars > costs us. > > That said, the scroll bars still can respond to incremental hits: all that > was removed is the UI. I have created iKey macros to do incremental hits > on scroll bars, and that works as well or better for me in some Finale > contexts. > > > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Eric Fiedler > wrote: > >> Friends, >> We've just installed Mac OS 10.8.5 on our three-year-old iMac (core i7) >> and are beginning to experience some weird behavior, such as disappearing >> scroll bars in the speedy entry and key change windows. My first thought >> was to trash the preferences … but couldn't find them. Can anyone tell me >> where they've gotten to in FinMac 2012c? >> I'd also be grateful for any other relevant suggestions or comments. >> Thanks! >> Eric >> * >> Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler) >> www.habsburgerverlag.de >> webmas...@habsburgerverlag.de >> * >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disappearing scrolls with OS 10.8.5
Sure that is the exact app name? Looked in the App Store from my OSX 10.7.5 desktop as well as from my OSX10.8.5 desktop and didn't see it. A version for the older desktop would be most import for my work in Finale 2012. Klaus ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disappearing scrolls with OS 10.8.5
Google 'smart scroll Mac' This will be the top link.'' J D Thomas ThomaStudios On Oct 18, 2013, at 7:19 AM, Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre wrote: > Sure that is the exact app name? > > Looked in the App Store from my OSX 10.7.5 desktop as well as from my > OSX10.8.5 desktop and didn't see it. > > A version for the older desktop would be most import for my work in Finale > 2012. > > Klaus > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disappearing scrolls with OS 10.8.5
Well, my url link didn't take. Go here: http://www.marcmoini.com/sx_en.html On Oct 18, 2013, at 7:35 AM, J D Thomas wrote: > Google 'smart scroll Mac' > > This will be the top link.'' > > J D Thomas > ThomaStudios > > On Oct 18, 2013, at 7:19 AM, Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre > wrote: > >> Sure that is the exact app name? >> >> Looked in the App Store from my OSX 10.7.5 desktop as well as from my >> OSX10.8.5 desktop and didn't see it. >> >> A version for the older desktop would be most import for my work in Finale >> 2012. >> >> Klaus >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
