Re: [Finale] Re: linked parts: cues
On 12/18/06, shirling & neueweise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: but then you could simply transpose the cue. Transposing the cue is a separate issue from hiding the clef changes. To hide clef changes you need to have a staff style that forces bass clef *and* transposes an octave. The only way this would not matter is if the region where the cue is contains no actual notes in the part. If you ever actually need to do this you'll see what I mean. I am aware of it only because I am working on a piece with double bass right now. (My double bass staff is a transposing staff.) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: linked parts: cues
with the 1st 7 styles you would solve the majority of the cases You also need octave transposition ones for double bass, in particular. but then you could simply transpose the cue. Remember, for cues you will likely need clef changes even for instruments that do not usually have clef changes, like Eb Alto Sax, A Clarinet, and Piccolo. yeah sure, but the majority of the cases would ne quick and dirty. piccolo can be transposed an octave as well. unless you are using 8ve-treble and 8vb-bass clefs, then you would in fact have to defined even more styles. it is so widespread to NOT use those little 8-clefs anyways (the greater the reduction the conductor score, the more they get lost in the deatil in any case) that this is not an issue for me, i don't use them. Btw, if you use C scores, this plan fails entirely. yes too many things that don't work properly or at all; fortunately it is still widely-accepted and even appreciated when you provide transposed scores to conductors. the piece i am working on has massive microtonal glissandi, often arou dthe same pitches, so it would be (would have been) good for a C-score to better visualize this. -- shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: linked parts: cues
On 12/18/06, shirling & neueweise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: with the 1st 7 styles you would solve the majority of the cases You also need octave transposition ones for double bass, in particular. The problem is certainly not intractable: just a bit messy. Remember, for cues you will likely need clef changes even for instruments that do not usually have clef changes, like Eb Alto Sax, A Clarinet, and Piccolo. Btw, if you use C scores, this plan fails entirely. I have been toying with going back to C scores, esp. for chamber works. In these cases, I actually leave "Display in Concert Pitch" off and have a transposed copy of each staff of each transposing instrument. The score shows only the non-transposing staves while the parts for the transposing instruments show the transposed staves. It is a compromise, but a pretty decent compromise, esp. if only a few staves transpose. you can erase staff styles from partial measures, although this only works in around 98% of the cases i have tried it in, Even if you manage to pierce one of the many chinks in Finale's armor and erase a partial measure of a clef-transposing style, it does you no good. If the staff style is assigned at the beginning of the measure, clef changes are suppressed throughout the measure. And I believe I recall that if you assign it not at the beginning it has no effect: or wierd effects. Plugins can easily assign any staff style to any partial measure, and I played with this awhile back. I prefer to find workarounds that exploit Finale's documented feature set rather than those that exploit quirky behaviors that easily may not survive in the next release. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: linked parts: cues
shirling & neueweise wrote: You described the most pathological case, gurgle gurgle pwet pwet. you were expecting...? Actually, the most pathological case is when there is all of the above *plus* clef changes for the cue. You have to create a separate staff style to hide the clef change, and this creates a whole new set of challenges. The easiest staff style is a transposition that does nothing but set the clef. But such staff styles are required to be assigned to full measures, and if the instrument is transposing you have to have a special transposing staff style with the force clef. It can lead to some serious outside-the-shipping-carton thinking. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: linked parts: cues
shirling & neueweise wrote: by the way, i know you're not a big fan of mirrors, but they are saving my ass right now. i make one cue pretty and mirror across all voices needing it, with transpositions as needed. Seems like a lot of trouble when copy/paste is faster and allows completely separate adjustment of rest positions and stem lengths in transposing situations. I use copy/paste, but ymmv. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: linked parts: cues
You described the most pathological case, however, many cues do not require this level of effort. Full-measure cues can be hidden in the score directly using the new blank notation for cues. For partial measure cues, you can often avoid resorting the 3rd layer if 1. The position of the real rest does not collide with the cue. or 2. The floating position of the real rest does not collide with cue. (Depending on layer options this can be different than #1.) If neither 1 nor 2 is true, then using a 3rd layer is probably the next best option. shirling & neueweise wrote: robert, you were suggesting using staff styles... here is the solution i found, is this what you are doing, or do you have something more ingenious? layer 1 - real rest in default position layer 2 - displaced rest to avoid collision with cue layer 4 - cue notes cue SC style - alternate (normal) notation applied to layer 1: show items attached to notes; do not show notes or items attached to notes in other layers cue PT style - alternate (blank) notation applied to layer 1: do not show items attached to notes; show notes or items attached to notes in other layers this way you can apply SC in the score to hide all information needed for the cues but keeping the full measure rest, and when you apply PT in the part, because there are conflicts, it wipes out the SC style in the part, leaving only the cue info. stupid that it requires 3 layers, but it works well i think. i won't need partial cue measures (cues that continue into the measure where the cued instrument enters), but i think it might work there as well, with selective partial measure editing. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
