Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen?
Andrew Stiller wrote: On May 14, 2007, at 1:12 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Yeah, and it's TWENTY OUNCE pints over your way, not our measly little 16 oz. pints that we have here in Canada and the US. How did that happen? There's a proverb, which I have always assumed was very old, that says A pint's a pound the world round. For this to be true, a pint must be 16 oz. everywhere. So what's the deal here? --Or is the 20-oz. pt. like a baker's dozen? I learned the pint's a pound the world round also, but when I asked the person who told it to me if a pint of gasoline would weigh the same as a pint of mercury, he thought for a moment, said Bah! and walked away. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen?
On May 14, 2007, at 3:21 PM, John Howell wrote: there are actually 3 different horizontal connectors: the hyphen, the n-dash, and the m-dash. The m-dash--represented in typescript by two hyphens (or n-dashes??) as shown here--is used to separate interjections that might equally be indicated by parentheses or (god help us!) by footnotes, so they are really separators rather than connectors. I'm not sure my keyboard can produce all three (Mac), but the shortest one is typed as a lower-case hyphen and the m-dash as Shift-Option-hyphen. (I don't know WindowSpeak.) The n-dash on Mac is opt-hyphen. This is what is suggested in the Finale manual to be used as a non-breaking hyphen for lyrics. I don't think that looks so hot myself, but for cheap and quick solutions it works. Here is one – For comparison, here is an m-dash — and a hyphen - Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen?
On May 14, 2007, at 8:45 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On May 14, 2007, at 1:12 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Yeah, and it's TWENTY OUNCE pints over your way, not our measly little 16 oz. pints that we have here in Canada and the US. How did that happen? There's a proverb, which I have always assumed was very old, that says A pint's a pound the world round. For this to be true, a pint must be 16 oz. everywhere. So what's the deal here? I think the originator of that proverb was confusing ounces avoirdupois (weight) with ounces volume. The reason British pints are bigger than Canadian pints is that the British used the Imperial system, whereas just about everywhere else (except some Caribbean islands) uses the system called variously Standard, or US Customary, or confusingly, English units (which were NOT even used by the British since the early 1800's!) Even the ounces themselves are slightly different in size between the two systems. The UK now uses the metric system, much to everyone's relief. The word pint is used more like glass, as in Let's order a glass of beer but is about 570 ml (about 1.2 US pints) by convention, as it is close to the original Imperial pint in volume and everyone was used to drinking beer in that size of glass. As much as it was a painful transition, the world is much better off with metric measures, which ARE the same the world round, and at least don't use the same word for two different types of measurement! Now if we could only convince the US to abandon the confusing, non- standard and minority system of measures that hasn't even been used in the country of its origin for almost two centuries! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen?
On May 14, 2007, at 3:21 PM, John Howell wrote: The m-dash--represented in typescript by two hyphens (or n-dashes??) as shown here--is used to separate interjections that might equally be indicated by parentheses or (god help us!) by footnotes, so they are really separators rather than connectors. I'm not sure my keyboard can produce all three (Mac), but the shortest one is typed as a lower-case hyphen and the m-dash as Shift-Option-hyphen. No, opt-s-hyphen produces the em dash. The en dash is option-hyphen; however, many fonts do not have an en dash, and use this slot for a hard hyphen. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://www.kallistimusic.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen?
On May 15, 2007, at 5:59 AM, dhbailey wrote: I learned the pint's a pound the world round also, but when I asked the person who told it to me if a pint of gasoline would weigh the same as a pint of mercury, he thought for a moment, said Bah! and walked away. A pint is *by definition* the volume occupied by a pound of water. The proverb (in addition to being a good mnemonic for that fact) says in effect that certain things are true under all circumstances. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://www.kallistimusic.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen? OT!
Andrew Stiller wrote: A pint is *by definition* the volume occupied by a pound of water. The proverb (in addition to being a good mnemonic for that fact) says in effect that certain things are true under all circumstances. The footnote reads: Proverb not true under extreme relativistic conditions, such as when a pint of ale approaches the speed of light. Do not attempt. The lawyers made them put that last part in. I think that working in Finale without a break for too long causes this list to occasionally have to deal with outbreaks of Off Topic emails. OT is a Finale safety valve and a partial remedy to composer house arrest. That's my excuse, anyway. Randolph Peters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen?
On 15-May-07, at 10:35 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On May 15, 2007, at 5:59 AM, dhbailey wrote: I learned the pint's a pound the world round also, but when I asked the person who told it to me if a pint of gasoline would weigh the same as a pint of mercury, he thought for a moment, said Bah! and walked away. A pint is *by definition* the volume occupied by a pound of water. The proverb (in addition to being a good mnemonic for that fact) says in effect that certain things are true under all circumstances. Which pint, Imperial or British? (careful, trick question, as the British pint is the one used by Americans, while the Imperial one was used by the British until the adoption of the metric system.) Also, change the temperature, change the volume. Also pound is a measure of weight, not mass, so at the top of Mount Everest it will weigh slightly more than in the Dutch lowlands (atmospheric buoyancy being what it is). And I understand there are fluctuations in the Earth's gravity field, particularly in the Canadian Shield area, which might cause microscopic fluctuations in measure. Which only goes to show that while SOME things are true under all circumstances, this particular saying is not. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen?
At 02:10 PM 5/14/2007 +0200, Raimund Lintzen wrote: 2) No 1 (bars 2223) with dash, 'Gedankenstrich' (Alt 0150) According to the Chicago Manual of Style (one of several references, but the one I prefer), it is the en dash (Alt-0150) without spaces. (Chicago Manual section 5.115). This is a connecting dash that is used for 'continuing or inclusive numbers' -- dates, times, pages, or reference numbers. (It is also used for implicit connections, such as John Doe, 1940-) (A hyphen is used for non-continuing numbers, such as telephone numbers, Social Security numbers, etc.) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen?
Raimund Lintzen wrote: what is typographically correct for us-english, brit-english: 1) No 1 (bars 22-23) with hyphen (Alt 045) or 2) No 1 (bars 2223) with dash, 'Gedankenstrich' (Alt 0150) with or without blank spaces around the dash? You didn't ask this, but for what it is worth, when doing academic writing about music, some institutions insist on referring to bars as measures. (Bars are the lines, not the contents, although I think that is debatable.) Furthermore, the abbreviation for one measure is m., as in m. 22. Two or more measures get the mm. treatment (i.e. mm. 22, 23 or mm. 22-23). I thought that if you were concerned about the right kind of dashes, you might also want to consider this other bit of fussiness. Fortunately for me, this list happily accepts anything a person wants to call it. -Randolph Peters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen?
On May 14, 2007, at 9:25 AM, Randolph Peters wrote: for what it is worth, when doing academic writing about music, some institutions insist on referring to bars as measures. (Bars are the lines, not the contents, although I think that is debatable.) Furthermore, the abbreviation for one measure is m., as in m. 22. Two or more measures get the mm. treatment (i.e. mm. 22, 23 or mm. 22-23). This is American vs. British usage. In the UK, bar can refer to either the line or the contents. In the US, bar means only the line in academic writing, and the contents are a measure. However, colloquial US English uses bar in the British sense all the time--it's just not acceptable in formal writing. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://www.kallistimusic.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen?
On 14-May-07, at 1:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 14/05/2007 17:58:40 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: actually I believe bars is correct in Brit. English Yes it is. (Along with minims, crotchets and quavers and pints of ale!) Yeah, and it's TWENTY OUNCE pints over your way, not our measly little 16 oz. pints that we have here in Canada and the US. Even a bass trombonist can be happy in Britain, whether talking about measures, bars, or pubs! 8-) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen?
At 5/14/2007 01:12 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Yes it is. (Along with minims, crotchets and quavers and pints of ale!) Yeah, and it's TWENTY OUNCE pints over your way, not our measly little 16 oz. pints that we have here in Canada and the US. Even a bass trombonist can be happy in Britain, whether talking about measures, bars, or pubs! 8-) Ah, but a lot US companies are stepping up to the plate with 24oz cans. @99 cents, too. Take that, you British ;-) Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen?
On May 14, 2007, at 1:12 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Yeah, and it's TWENTY OUNCE pints over your way, not our measly little 16 oz. pints that we have here in Canada and the US. How did that happen? There's a proverb, which I have always assumed was very old, that says A pint's a pound the world round. For this to be true, a pint must be 16 oz. everywhere. So what's the deal here? --Or is the 20-oz. pt. like a baker's dozen? Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://www.kallistimusic.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dash or hyphen?
At 8:25 AM -0500 5/14/07, Randolph Peters wrote: You didn't ask this, but for what it is worth, when doing academic writing about music, some institutions insist on referring to bars as measures. (Bars are the lines, not the contents, although I think that is debatable.) In my experience, in the U.S. at least, bar and measure are synonymous and interchangeable in both academic and common usage. Perhaps the difference is a particularly British (or in your case Canadian) thing. The vertical lines are bar lines, the spaces between them are either bars or measures. Two cultures separated by the same language, and all that! Furthermore, the abbreviation for one measure is m., as in m. 22. Two or more measures get the mm. treatment (i.e. mm. 22, 23 or mm. 22-23). Picky, but quite correct. Now, if I could just get people to recognize the differences between data and datum, criteria and criterion, media and medium! I thought that if you were concerned about the right kind of dashes, you might also want to consider this other bit of fussiness. Fortunately for me, this list happily accepts anything a person wants to call it. Indeed. I used to know which was which, but there are actually 3 different horizontal connectors: the hyphen, the n-dash, and the m-dash. The m-dash--represented in typescript by two hyphens (or n-dashes??) as shown here--is used to separate interjections that might equally be indicated by parentheses or (god help us!) by footnotes, so they are really separators rather than connectors. I'm not sure my keyboard can produce all three (Mac), but the shortest one is typed as a lower-case hyphen and the m-dash as Shift-Option-hyphen. (I don't know WindowSpeak.) Raimund's 2nd example, by the way, shows on my screen not as a dash but as a raise-to-the-power carat, which I believe would be read as 22 to the 23rd power, an AWFULLY large number of measures! John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
