Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 05:58:00PM +0200, Martin Costabel wrote: > Michal Suchanek wrote: >> 2009/9/18 Martin Costabel : > [] >>> completely over to /opt/X11, which means changing every single package >>> and forcing everyone to abandon the system X11. >>> >> >> Well, perhaps you can introduce a variable which specifies the X >> location so most packages can be updated to compile against either >> location without further changes. > > Without "further" changes, perhaps. But first every package has to be > changed. And then this will be another variant to manage, which would > make 8 (10.5/10.6, 32/64bit, X11-opt/usr), without Tiger. A nightmare. > > -- > Martin Martin, Of course you could revisit the feasibility of adding x11 packages starting with 10.6 and requiring them for 10.6 or later. Jeremy swears he is religiously committing his X11 changes upstream so that most of the x11 packaging on MacPorts are simple Portfiles building the associated stock tarballs. If that is really true, it might be just a matter of creating the info files and wiring the builds up to use them. Jack -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
Michal Suchanek wrote: > 2009/9/18 Martin Costabel : [] >> completely over to /opt/X11, which means changing every single package >> and forcing everyone to abandon the system X11. >> > > Well, perhaps you can introduce a variable which specifies the X > location so most packages can be updated to compile against either > location without further changes. Without "further" changes, perhaps. But first every package has to be changed. And then this will be another variant to manage, which would make 8 (10.5/10.6, 32/64bit, X11-opt/usr), without Tiger. A nightmare. -- Martin -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
2009/9/18 David R. Morrison : > > On Sep 18, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Michal Suchanek wrote: > >> 2009/9/18 Martin Costabel : >>> >>> David R. Morrison wrote: On Sep 18, 2009, at 7:23 AM, Jack Howarth wrote: > Martin, > I don't follow your last statement. My understanding is that X11 > in Snow Leopard is already preconfigured to hand off to an X11 in /opt > if present (remember that Jeremy Huddleston is both X11 maintainer at > Apple as well as the packager of the X11 Xquartz updates as well as > being the maintainer of all of MacPorts x11 packages). If you install > X11 Xquartz under Snow Leopard, it will automatically use any > improvements > to the user interface since the OS will consider it the new default > X11 location (in terms of the runnning X11). > Jack > That's interesting. How does it work, do you know? If you have another program dynamically linked to an X11 library (in the standard way), is it going to use the library in /opt instead of the library in /usr/X11 ? What would trigger that? >>> >>> As I understood the announcement, there will be a preference pane >>> allowing you to choose which X server will be started by launchd. What >>> will happen if you run binaries compiled against the X11 in /usr/X11 on >>> the X server in /opt/X11, well, I guess this will be interesting... >>> >>> In any case, any improvements in xquartz living in /opt/X11 will perhaps >>> be available at runtime, but not at compile time unless we switch Fink >>> completely over to /opt/X11, which means changing every single package >>> and forcing everyone to abandon the system X11. >>> >> >> Well, perhaps you can introduce a variable which specifies the X >> location so most packages can be updated to compile against either >> location without further changes. >> >> Thanks >> >> Michal > > The problem, though, will be packages which the user already compiled before > switching... > It's not like Apple's X11 will go away by installing Xquarz, is it? And linking against obsolete libraries is what twolevel namespace is for, right? Thanks Michal -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
On Sep 18, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Michal Suchanek wrote: > 2009/9/18 Martin Costabel : >> David R. Morrison wrote: >>> >>> On Sep 18, 2009, at 7:23 AM, Jack Howarth wrote: >>> Martin, I don't follow your last statement. My understanding is that X11 in Snow Leopard is already preconfigured to hand off to an X11 in /opt if present (remember that Jeremy Huddleston is both X11 maintainer at Apple as well as the packager of the X11 Xquartz updates as well as being the maintainer of all of MacPorts x11 packages). If you install X11 Xquartz under Snow Leopard, it will automatically use any improvements to the user interface since the OS will consider it the new default X11 location (in terms of the runnning X11). Jack >>> >>> That's interesting. How does it work, do you know? If you have >>> another program dynamically linked to an X11 library (in the >>> standard >>> way), is it going to use the library in /opt instead of the library >>> in /usr/X11 ? What would trigger that? >> >> As I understood the announcement, there will be a preference pane >> allowing you to choose which X server will be started by launchd. >> What >> will happen if you run binaries compiled against the X11 in /usr/ >> X11 on >> the X server in /opt/X11, well, I guess this will be interesting... >> >> In any case, any improvements in xquartz living in /opt/X11 will >> perhaps >> be available at runtime, but not at compile time unless we switch >> Fink >> completely over to /opt/X11, which means changing every single >> package >> and forcing everyone to abandon the system X11. >> > > Well, perhaps you can introduce a variable which specifies the X > location so most packages can be updated to compile against either > location without further changes. > > Thanks > > Michal The problem, though, will be packages which the user already compiled before switching... -- Dave -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
2009/9/18 Martin Costabel : > David R. Morrison wrote: >> >> On Sep 18, 2009, at 7:23 AM, Jack Howarth wrote: >> >>> Martin, >>> I don't follow your last statement. My understanding is that X11 >>> in Snow Leopard is already preconfigured to hand off to an X11 in /opt >>> if present (remember that Jeremy Huddleston is both X11 maintainer at >>> Apple as well as the packager of the X11 Xquartz updates as well as >>> being the maintainer of all of MacPorts x11 packages). If you install >>> X11 Xquartz under Snow Leopard, it will automatically use any >>> improvements >>> to the user interface since the OS will consider it the new default >>> X11 location (in terms of the runnning X11). >>> Jack >>> >> >> That's interesting. How does it work, do you know? If you have >> another program dynamically linked to an X11 library (in the standard >> way), is it going to use the library in /opt instead of the library >> in /usr/X11 ? What would trigger that? > > As I understood the announcement, there will be a preference pane > allowing you to choose which X server will be started by launchd. What > will happen if you run binaries compiled against the X11 in /usr/X11 on > the X server in /opt/X11, well, I guess this will be interesting... > > In any case, any improvements in xquartz living in /opt/X11 will perhaps > be available at runtime, but not at compile time unless we switch Fink > completely over to /opt/X11, which means changing every single package > and forcing everyone to abandon the system X11. > Well, perhaps you can introduce a variable which specifies the X location so most packages can be updated to compile against either location without further changes. Thanks Michal -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
David R. Morrison wrote: > > On Sep 18, 2009, at 7:23 AM, Jack Howarth wrote: > >> Martin, >>I don't follow your last statement. My understanding is that X11 >> in Snow Leopard is already preconfigured to hand off to an X11 in /opt >> if present (remember that Jeremy Huddleston is both X11 maintainer at >> Apple as well as the packager of the X11 Xquartz updates as well as >> being the maintainer of all of MacPorts x11 packages). If you install >> X11 Xquartz under Snow Leopard, it will automatically use any >> improvements >> to the user interface since the OS will consider it the new default >> X11 location (in terms of the runnning X11). >>Jack >> > > That's interesting. How does it work, do you know? If you have > another program dynamically linked to an X11 library (in the standard > way), is it going to use the library in /opt instead of the library > in /usr/X11 ? What would trigger that? As I understood the announcement, there will be a preference pane allowing you to choose which X server will be started by launchd. What will happen if you run binaries compiled against the X11 in /usr/X11 on the X server in /opt/X11, well, I guess this will be interesting... In any case, any improvements in xquartz living in /opt/X11 will perhaps be available at runtime, but not at compile time unless we switch Fink completely over to /opt/X11, which means changing every single package and forcing everyone to abandon the system X11. -- Martin -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
On Sep 18, 2009, at 7:23 AM, Jack Howarth wrote: > Martin, >I don't follow your last statement. My understanding is that X11 > in Snow Leopard is already preconfigured to hand off to an X11 in /opt > if present (remember that Jeremy Huddleston is both X11 maintainer at > Apple as well as the packager of the X11 Xquartz updates as well as > being the maintainer of all of MacPorts x11 packages). If you install > X11 Xquartz under Snow Leopard, it will automatically use any > improvements > to the user interface since the OS will consider it the new default > X11 location (in terms of the runnning X11). >Jack > That's interesting. How does it work, do you know? If you have another program dynamically linked to an X11 library (in the standard way), is it going to use the library in /opt instead of the library in /usr/X11 ? What would trigger that? -- Dave -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 01:47:20AM +0200, Martin Costabel wrote: > Alexander Hansen wrote: > [] >> There was an official update of 10.4's X11 via Software Update. And on >> Leopard a number of the system updates included files in the X11 >> distribution. > > I agree with Jack on the fact that the xquartz development improved the > "official" X11. The latest softwareupdated X11 on Leopard has several > bug fixes for the user interface from early xquartz releases. And the > official X11 on Snow Leopard has all the fixes from xquartz before 2.4.0. > > This concerns, for example, the new copy-paste system, or the > interaction with Spaces. And there is the wrapper script in > /Applications/Utilities/X11.app that runs X11 in a correct login > environment for all known login shells. This was the result of a > collaborative effort on the x11-users and xquartz-dev lists, put into > xquartz by Jeremy. And it is now in the system X11 on Snow Leopard. > > I doubt if such improvments of the user interface will still happen when > xquartz lives in /opt/X11. > > -- > Martin > Martin, I don't follow your last statement. My understanding is that X11 in Snow Leopard is already preconfigured to hand off to an X11 in /opt if present (remember that Jeremy Huddleston is both X11 maintainer at Apple as well as the packager of the X11 Xquartz updates as well as being the maintainer of all of MacPorts x11 packages). If you install X11 Xquartz under Snow Leopard, it will automatically use any improvements to the user interface since the OS will consider it the new default X11 location (in terms of the runnning X11). Jack -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
Alexander Hansen wrote: [] > There was an official update of 10.4's X11 via Software Update. And on > Leopard a number of the system updates included files in the X11 > distribution. I agree with Jack on the fact that the xquartz development improved the "official" X11. The latest softwareupdated X11 on Leopard has several bug fixes for the user interface from early xquartz releases. And the official X11 on Snow Leopard has all the fixes from xquartz before 2.4.0. This concerns, for example, the new copy-paste system, or the interaction with Spaces. And there is the wrapper script in /Applications/Utilities/X11.app that runs X11 in a correct login environment for all known login shells. This was the result of a collaborative effort on the x11-users and xquartz-dev lists, put into xquartz by Jeremy. And it is now in the system X11 on Snow Leopard. I doubt if such improvments of the user interface will still happen when xquartz lives in /opt/X11. -- Martin -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jack Howarth wrote: > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:12:47PM -0400, Alexander Hansen wrote: > Robert Wyatt wrote: Jack Howarth wrote: > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:35:26AM -0500, Robert Wyatt wrote: >> Jack Howarth wrote: >>> Martin, >>> Well, the problem is that the bulk (if not all) >>> of X11 Xquartz will likely appear in a future software >>> update of the X11 components from Apple. >> Not that it won't or that I wouldn't like to see it, but when has this >> ever happened before? --Robert > Robert, > There was some pymol breakage >Jack Jack, It seems we're miscommunicating. I meant when has there ever been a Software Update that upgraded X11 (since 10.4 when it came in from beta)? Not when has there been pymol breakage. --Robert > Actually it came in from beta on 10.3 > > There was an official update of 10.4's X11 via Software Update. And on > Leopard a number of the system updates included files in the X11 > distribution. > > I'd guess that folks who stuck with official X11 only probably didn't > experience any breakage, other than the fact that the X11 SDK in Xcode > didn't sync up with the libraries until about Xcode 3.1.2 or so. > Alexander, >I'm not talking about build breakage ala the missing .la > but render problems due to changes in the GL DRI which weren't > tested with programs like pymol which exercises OpenGL very > hard. Pymol actually can do some really amazing things with > graphics. > http://pymol.org/zalman/ > without even resorting to the normal hardware stereo quad > buffer support and shutter glasses. > Jack Ah; that's a different matter then. I haven't actually been using the official Leopard X11 myself, and I assumed that the changes were smaller than that. - -- Alexander Hansen Fink User Liaison -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkqyiVQACgkQB8UpO3rKjQ/fpQCfUhlTn8YYIcTPIqyy4JSM+EuU W8EAn0gwjnATSEGJHPweac2SprjPfT8l =6Vk/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:12:47PM -0400, Alexander Hansen wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Robert Wyatt wrote: > > Jack Howarth wrote: > >> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:35:26AM -0500, Robert Wyatt wrote: > >>> Jack Howarth wrote: > Martin, > Well, the problem is that the bulk (if not all) > of X11 Xquartz will likely appear in a future software > update of the X11 components from Apple. > >>> Not that it won't or that I wouldn't like to see it, but when has this > >>> ever happened before? --Robert > >> Robert, > >> There was some pymol breakage > >>Jack > > > > Jack, > > It seems we're miscommunicating. I meant when has there ever been a > > Software Update that upgraded X11 (since 10.4 when it came in from > > beta)? Not when has there been pymol breakage. --Robert > > > > > > Actually it came in from beta on 10.3 > > There was an official update of 10.4's X11 via Software Update. And on > Leopard a number of the system updates included files in the X11 > distribution. > > I'd guess that folks who stuck with official X11 only probably didn't > experience any breakage, other than the fact that the X11 SDK in Xcode > didn't sync up with the libraries until about Xcode 3.1.2 or so. > - -- > Alexander Hansen > Fink User Liaison > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iEYEARECAAYFAkqyX/8ACgkQB8UpO3rKjQ8lKwCePmgv939s5E/z/DR9L8x+rIp8 > FEYAoJY29I/YvT6PaGaa5O+x0OnSK8zJ > =iojI > -END PGP SIGNATURE- Alexander, I'm not talking about build breakage ala the missing .la but render problems due to changes in the GL DRI which weren't tested with programs like pymol which exercises OpenGL very hard. Pymol actually can do some really amazing things with graphics. http://pymol.org/zalman/ without even resorting to the normal hardware stereo quad buffer support and shutter glasses. Jack -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Robert Wyatt wrote: > Jack Howarth wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:35:26AM -0500, Robert Wyatt wrote: >>> Jack Howarth wrote: Martin, Well, the problem is that the bulk (if not all) of X11 Xquartz will likely appear in a future software update of the X11 components from Apple. >>> Not that it won't or that I wouldn't like to see it, but when has this >>> ever happened before? --Robert >> Robert, >> There was some pymol breakage >>Jack > > Jack, > It seems we're miscommunicating. I meant when has there ever been a > Software Update that upgraded X11 (since 10.4 when it came in from > beta)? Not when has there been pymol breakage. --Robert > > Actually it came in from beta on 10.3 There was an official update of 10.4's X11 via Software Update. And on Leopard a number of the system updates included files in the X11 distribution. I'd guess that folks who stuck with official X11 only probably didn't experience any breakage, other than the fact that the X11 SDK in Xcode didn't sync up with the libraries until about Xcode 3.1.2 or so. - -- Alexander Hansen Fink User Liaison -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkqyX/8ACgkQB8UpO3rKjQ8lKwCePmgv939s5E/z/DR9L8x+rIp8 FEYAoJY29I/YvT6PaGaa5O+x0OnSK8zJ =iojI -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:55:49AM -0500, Robert Wyatt wrote: > Jack Howarth wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:35:26AM -0500, Robert Wyatt wrote: >>> Jack Howarth wrote: Martin, Well, the problem is that the bulk (if not all) of X11 Xquartz will likely appear in a future software update of the X11 components from Apple. >>> Not that it won't or that I wouldn't like to see it, but when has >>> this ever happened before? --Robert >> >> Robert, >> There was some pymol breakage >>Jack > > Jack, > It seems we're miscommunicating. I meant when has there ever been a > Software Update that upgraded X11 (since 10.4 when it came in from > beta)? Not when has there been pymol breakage. --Robert Robert, No because we were able to always test the complete fink package set against X11 Xquartz and avoid any regressions from creeping in. Without the ability to reproduce such issues with fink under SL, it is essential we attempt to make at least some of the more obvious regression magnets available for testing via MacPorts. Jack -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
Jack Howarth wrote: > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:35:26AM -0500, Robert Wyatt wrote: >> Jack Howarth wrote: >>> Martin, >>> Well, the problem is that the bulk (if not all) >>> of X11 Xquartz will likely appear in a future software >>> update of the X11 components from Apple. >> Not that it won't or that I wouldn't like to see it, but when has this >> ever happened before? --Robert > > Robert, > There was some pymol breakage >Jack Jack, It seems we're miscommunicating. I meant when has there ever been a Software Update that upgraded X11 (since 10.4 when it came in from beta)? Not when has there been pymol breakage. --Robert -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:35:26AM -0500, Robert Wyatt wrote: > Jack Howarth wrote: >> Martin, >> Well, the problem is that the bulk (if not all) >> of X11 Xquartz will likely appear in a future software >> update of the X11 components from Apple. > > Not that it won't or that I wouldn't like to see it, but when has this > ever happened before? --Robert Robert, There was some pymol breakage a few times in the beta or release candidates of X11 Xquartz but Jeremy always fixed it before the final releases. Remember that recent changes in X11 Xquartz have centered on improving the GL DRI performance. Pymol is actually one of the best tests for bugs in that area since few other packages in fink push the OpenGL so hard. Since fink won't support X11 Xquartz in Snow Leopard, it seemed to me critical that packages like pymol become available in MacPorts so users and Jeremy could test against them. Previously Jeremy would often build the pymol package from fink to see these bugs locally but this will be impossible now. Jack ps I've already provided MacPorts with a port of the fink pymol package so that issue is solved... https://trac.macports.org/ticket/21376 The main problem I see in MacPorts at the moment is the lack of automatic scanning of the build phase for instances of /usr/X11R6 to ensure that the builds are fully decoupled from the system X11. Always scanning for that by hand is a pain. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
Jack Howarth wrote: > Martin, > Well, the problem is that the bulk (if not all) > of X11 Xquartz will likely appear in a future software > update of the X11 components from Apple. Not that it won't or that I wouldn't like to see it, but when has this ever happened before? --Robert -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
Martin, Well, the problem is that the bulk (if not all) of X11 Xquartz will likely appear in a future software update of the X11 components from Apple. This really the main reason I moved over to MacPorts. A number of times in the past X11 Xquartz changes have broken pymol and I don't want to see us all get blindsided by an incompatible X11 update from Apple via Software Updates. For example, my initial attempts at building molmol under MacPorts has produced a binary which doesn't drawn any functional control widgets but just the rendered molecule. My current hypothesis is that it isn't their 2.3.1 openmotif package (which is pretty much identical to the one we have in fink) but rather related to the fact that they are using Mesa for their glut package instead of freeglut. I am going to try adding a freeglut package to MacPorts and see if building against that eliminates the bug. Such potential breakage could end up in the Apple X11 if we aren't testing X11 Xquartz hard enough. FYI. Jack -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
Jack Howarth wrote: > Martin, >It is a bit extreme to say the Jeremy has gone > off the deep end with bleeding edge. Completely I didn't say "off the deep end". What he does is still very valuable, but in a different way from before. In the long run, it will probably benefit all users of X11 on Macs, but the equation "xquartz = bugfix for Apple's X11" does no longer hold. And that's what it was for most X11 users and most Fink users. > untrue. Even if the X11 Xquartz was based entirely > on the same code as that in Snow Leopard X11, this > issue of potential incompatibilities would exist. > The change causing the problem is the movement of > X11 Xquartz into /opt. The reason he did that was > to prevent system upgrades from constantly nuking > the currently installed X11 Xquartz installation. > Also note that while X11 Xquartz 2.4.0 now contains > an automatic update mechanism, it isn't triggered > automatically after a system update has been > applied on Leopard to restore the previous X11 > Xquartz installation's components. So short of such > a feature being added to X11 Xquartz, movement of > the X11 Xquartz installation to /opt is the only > way to prevent the system updates from overwriting > the X11 Xquartz components. True, but this goes also the other way: Installation to /opt means no more bug fix for the system X11. At runtime, there will be interferences. At compile-time, I don't know; I think /opt/X11 is not automatically found by configure scripts, which would mean no interference for most packages. -- Martin -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
Martin, It is a bit extreme to say the Jeremy has gone off the deep end with bleeding edge. Completely untrue. Even if the X11 Xquartz was based entirely on the same code as that in Snow Leopard X11, this issue of potential incompatibilities would exist. The change causing the problem is the movement of X11 Xquartz into /opt. The reason he did that was to prevent system upgrades from constantly nuking the currently installed X11 Xquartz installation. Also note that while X11 Xquartz 2.4.0 now contains an automatic update mechanism, it isn't triggered automatically after a system update has been applied on Leopard to restore the previous X11 Xquartz installation's components. So short of such a feature being added to X11 Xquartz, movement of the X11 Xquartz installation to /opt is the only way to prevent the system updates from overwriting the X11 Xquartz components. Jack -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
Alexander Hansen wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Robert Wyatt wrote: >> Jeremy H has just released XQuartz 2.4.1_alpha1 for Snow Leopard. I'm >> going to continue to work through building the bundle- packages with the >> X11 that shipped with 10.6 for now unless you folks think that it >> shouldn't matter (in which case I would install the alpha). >> --Robert >> > > It may well matter. Supposedly XQuartz for Snow Leopard is going to > install under /opt, so Fink packages may need to be more explicit about > their X11 detection to force the use of the official X11. I rather think Fink should warn *not* to install this xquartz update. Xquartz itself should give some warnings, too, like it should have warned not to install 2.4.0 on 10.5 if an update to 10.6 was ever planned. There will certainly be some discussion on the x11-users list, once people become aware of the fact that Jeremy is now on a completely different trip and no longer mainly fixes bugs of Apple's X11, but offers bleeding-edge x.org X11 that may interfere with the working and use of Apple's X11. I am looking forward to this discussion... -- Martin -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
Alexander Hansen wrote: > > Robert Wyatt wrote: >> Jeremy H has just released XQuartz 2.4.1_alpha1 for Snow Leopard. I'm >> going to continue to work through building the bundle- packages with the >> X11 that shipped with 10.6 for now unless you folks think that it >> shouldn't matter (in which case I would install the alpha). >> --Robert >> > > It may well matter. Supposedly XQuartz for Snow Leopard is going to > install under /opt, so Fink packages may need to be more explicit about > their X11 detection to force the use of the official X11. > > - -- > Alexander Hansen No problem, I can wait. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] XQuartz alpha1 for 10.6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Robert Wyatt wrote: > Jeremy H has just released XQuartz 2.4.1_alpha1 for Snow Leopard. I'm > going to continue to work through building the bundle- packages with the > X11 that shipped with 10.6 for now unless you folks think that it > shouldn't matter (in which case I would install the alpha). > --Robert > It may well matter. Supposedly XQuartz for Snow Leopard is going to install under /opt, so Fink packages may need to be more explicit about their X11 detection to force the use of the official X11. - -- Alexander Hansen Fink User Liaison -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkqxpwwACgkQB8UpO3rKjQ8fmgCfWAzM66wO4uSoWYKCJFMiCaI9 gBwAnRZj84j4GhjDO/siAQMArJSCph1d =jp1y -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
