Re: [Firebird-devel] Setting time zone bind through DPB?
On 25-2-2019 16:58, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: 25.02.2019 14:00, Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote: To me you suggestion looks reasonable - but I'm not sure is not it too late to add new features to FB4 after beta1. Not late at all. We should finalize new features before the release and this is just an extension to the already presented feature. I created http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/browse/CORE-6032 -- Mark Rotteveel Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Setting time zone bind through DPB?
25.02.2019 14:00, Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote: To me you suggestion looks reasonable - but I'm not sure is not it too late to add new features to FB4 after beta1. Not late at all. We should finalize new features before the release and this is just an extension to the already presented feature. Dmitry Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Setting time zone bind through DPB?
On 2/23/19 2:39 PM, Mark Rotteveel wrote: On 18-2-2019 12:59, Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote: On 2/18/19 2:21 PM, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote: On 16/02/2019 12:57, Mark Rotteveel wrote: BTW: similar arguments could be made for the SET DECFLOAT options, but I don't have a need there. The similar SET DECFLOAT wasn't it, so TIME ZONE didn't had too. That backward compatibility bindings were designed in order to make new features work somehow with old, having no idea about them, software. Such software hardly has a good way to place unknown to it items to DPB. New one should better use default bindings cause they provide best (from functionality POV) access to new features. So why overcomplicate server where it's not needed ? That ignores the reality of drivers that are aware of the existence of a feature but haven't yet come around to implementing it (or don't want to implement it). For example, I only want to support time zones in Java 8 (and higher) and not in Java 7 to avoid having to implement it twice because the Java 8 implementation will use the java.time (JSR-310) API as required by JDBC, and this doesn't exist in Java 7. I could also add something like that in Jaybird 3.x, etc (that could apply for both DECFLOAT and WITH TIME ZONE types). And as I mentioned earlier, I'm also concerned about the effects of ALTER SESSION RESET. To me you suggestion looks reasonable - but I'm not sure is not it too late to add new features to FB4 after beta1. Let's see what others think about it. Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Setting time zone bind through DPB?
On 23-2-2019 13:17, Lester Caine wrote: On 23/02/2019 11:39, Mark Rotteveel wrote: That ignores the reality of drivers that are aware of the existence of a feature but haven't yet come around to implementing it (or don't want to implement it). Currently I have no intention of touching FB4 simply because it will conflict with proper reliable management of timezone data. In order to ensure my historic material is not corrupted by the limits imposed by the FB4 hacks to ignore second accuracy in TZ offsets. It's bad enough that the raw data is already corrupted by ignoring pre-1970 rules and serving up the truncated data without ANY indication. Then taking that data and limiting it to minute accuracy is simply wrong. I see the current offering as being something that will have to be completely reworked at some point to be of any use for historic data sets, but then the complete TZ system has to be fixed first! We take the time to build accurate rules sets for events as recent as the 2nd world war, and then they get thrown out because it's 'too much trouble to manage them'! Currently many other parts of the world are going through the same exercise of accurately documenting pre-1970 data, but there is no way currently of distributing this material :( I'm not sure why you replied this to my post. It doesn't seem relevant in the context of my thread. Mark -- Mark Rotteveel Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Setting time zone bind through DPB?
On 23/02/2019 11:39, Mark Rotteveel wrote: That ignores the reality of drivers that are aware of the existence of a feature but haven't yet come around to implementing it (or don't want to implement it). Currently I have no intention of touching FB4 simply because it will conflict with proper reliable management of timezone data. In order to ensure my historic material is not corrupted by the limits imposed by the FB4 hacks to ignore second accuracy in TZ offsets. It's bad enough that the raw data is already corrupted by ignoring pre-1970 rules and serving up the truncated data without ANY indication. Then taking that data and limiting it to minute accuracy is simply wrong. I see the current offering as being something that will have to be completely reworked at some point to be of any use for historic data sets, but then the complete TZ system has to be fixed first! We take the time to build accurate rules sets for events as recent as the 2nd world war, and then they get thrown out because it's 'too much trouble to manage them'! Currently many other parts of the world are going through the same exercise of accurately documenting pre-1970 data, but there is no way currently of distributing this material :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - https://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - https://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - https://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - https://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - https://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Setting time zone bind through DPB?
On 18-2-2019 12:59, Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote: On 2/18/19 2:21 PM, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote: On 16/02/2019 12:57, Mark Rotteveel wrote: BTW: similar arguments could be made for the SET DECFLOAT options, but I don't have a need there. The similar SET DECFLOAT wasn't it, so TIME ZONE didn't had too. That backward compatibility bindings were designed in order to make new features work somehow with old, having no idea about them, software. Such software hardly has a good way to place unknown to it items to DPB. New one should better use default bindings cause they provide best (from functionality POV) access to new features. So why overcomplicate server where it's not needed ? That ignores the reality of drivers that are aware of the existence of a feature but haven't yet come around to implementing it (or don't want to implement it). For example, I only want to support time zones in Java 8 (and higher) and not in Java 7 to avoid having to implement it twice because the Java 8 implementation will use the java.time (JSR-310) API as required by JDBC, and this doesn't exist in Java 7. I could also add something like that in Jaybird 3.x, etc (that could apply for both DECFLOAT and WITH TIME ZONE types). And as I mentioned earlier, I'm also concerned about the effects of ALTER SESSION RESET. Mark -- Mark Rotteveel Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Setting time zone bind through DPB?
On 2/18/19 2:21 PM, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote: On 16/02/2019 12:57, Mark Rotteveel wrote: BTW: similar arguments could be made for the SET DECFLOAT options, but I don't have a need there. The similar SET DECFLOAT wasn't it, so TIME ZONE didn't had too. That backward compatibility bindings were designed in order to make new features work somehow with old, having no idea about them, software. Such software hardly has a good way to place unknown to it items to DPB. New one should better use default bindings cause they provide best (from functionality POV) access to new features. So why overcomplicate server where it's not needed ? Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Setting time zone bind through DPB?
On 16/02/2019 12:57, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > > BTW: similar arguments could be made for the SET DECFLOAT options, but > I don't have a need there. > The similar SET DECFLOAT wasn't it, so TIME ZONE didn't had too. Adriano Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Setting time zone bind through DPB?
On 2019-02-18 09:48, Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote: Guys, you are mixing DPB & SPB. In crazy designed SPB one really can't use unknown for server items - server does not know how to skip unknown iten and proceed to next. DPB (both v1 & v2) has absolutely regular structure, one can safely add new items to it, old server can and will skip them. Ok, good to know (although I'll probably forget again). That does not mean that I like an idea of duplicating session tuning in DPB cause I do not see good reasons for it. Start session and issue startup sequence of SQL statements. I want to be able to call ALTER SESSION RESET in a way that it will reset the session as I configured it on attach (including bind config). The difference is that I assume things set through DPB to survive a ALTER SESSION RESET, while I would assume things set using SET xxx (eg SET TIME ZONE BIND) to be reset to the defaults (or DPB configured values). I may be wrong, but that would mean that ALTER SESSION RESET needs to be documented in a lot more detail than it is right now. Not being able to set an initial session config that will define the state after a session reset is I think a dangerous thing (or at least, something that may lead to confusion and vague bug reports). Mark Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Setting time zone bind through DPB?
On 2/16/19 6:59 PM, Mark Rotteveel wrote: On 16-2-2019 16:04, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: 16.02.2019 15:57, Mark Rotteveel wrote: I was wondering if it was considered to also set these options through the DPB. Especially for time zone support, I'm currently considering not supporting this for Java 7 in Jaybird, and it would save some headaches if it were possible to control this through the DPB (eg explicit property or maybe using isc_dpb_config) instead of having to execute a statement after connect. One question: how are you going to decide whether these DPB options must be set (server is 4.0) or not (server 3.0-)? Thanks, I forgot about the minor annoyance of not being able to use unknown DPB items on lower versions. Guys, you are mixing DPB & SPB. In crazy designed SPB one really can't use unknown for server items - server does not know how to skip unknown iten and proceed to next. DPB (both v1 & v2) has absolutely regular structure, one can safely add new items to it, old server can and will skip them. That does not mean that I like an idea of duplicating session tuning in DPB cause I do not see good reasons for it. Start session and issue startup sequence of SQL statements. Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Setting time zone bind through DPB?
On 16-2-2019 16:04, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: 16.02.2019 15:57, Mark Rotteveel wrote: I was wondering if it was considered to also set these options through the DPB. Especially for time zone support, I'm currently considering not supporting this for Java 7 in Jaybird, and it would save some headaches if it were possible to control this through the DPB (eg explicit property or maybe using isc_dpb_config) instead of having to execute a statement after connect. One question: how are you going to decide whether these DPB options must be set (server is 4.0) or not (server 3.0-)? Thanks, I forgot about the minor annoyance of not being able to use unknown DPB items on lower versions. In that case, I'll have to hope implementing the minimum needs for protocol v16 (or was it v15?) doesn't give me too many headaches, because that would solve it automatically as populating DPB in the pure Java protocol in Jaybird only happens after connect when the protocol version is known. Native/embedded usage of Jaybird will just need to handle it explicitly (users would need to set a connection property). Or I'll leave setting this compatibility option entirely to users stuck on Java 7. But then a DPB item is still preferable over having to execute an additional statement after attach. Mark -- Mark Rotteveel Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Setting time zone bind through DPB?
> One question: how are you going to decide whether these DPB options must be set (server is 4.0) or not (server 3.0-)? Through protocol version. Dmitry Kovalenko. PS. Not ask me about fbclient.dll :) Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Setting time zone bind through DPB?
16.02.2019 15:57, Mark Rotteveel wrote: I was wondering if it was considered to also set these options through the DPB. Especially for time zone support, I'm currently considering not supporting this for Java 7 in Jaybird, and it would save some headaches if it were possible to control this through the DPB (eg explicit property or maybe using isc_dpb_config) instead of having to execute a statement after connect. One question: how are you going to decide whether these DPB options must be set (server is 4.0) or not (server 3.0-)? -- WBR, SD. Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
