Re: stubborness from being spoiled
This message is from: Laurie Pittman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Agreed Brian. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 9:55 PM Subject: stubborness from being spoiled This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here's a slightly different perspective on why Fjords may be thought of as being stubborn. I believe more Fjords are raised spoiled than are many other horses. Well-meaning owners shower the Fjords with love (which is good) but don't know how to teach them to respect people (which is bad). This results in friendly, loving Fjords who are used to getting their own way. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina
IgG
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Misha asked for comments about IgG testing. Her timing is interesting because just yesterday I gave a plasma transfusion to a client's foal who did not receive enough colostrum. At the risk of being a little basic for those with extensive horse knowledge, I am going to write in a manner that I hope will be helpful for all. Foals are born with very little protection from infection. They do have functional immune systems which are able to respond to an infectious challenge, but their bodies are slow to respond. This means that an infection could potentially kill them before they could mount a response to it. In fact, most foals that do not get adequate amounts of colostrum die within several weeks of birth. Colostrum is the name for the mare's first milk. It has very high levels of immunoglobulins (antibodies) which are absorbed by the foal's intestinal tract and transported directly to the circulatory system. These antibodies are one of the body's main defenses against infection. The foal's system was specially designed to be able to absorb these antibodies for only the first 12-24 hours of it's life. After that it's too late; Colostrum given after this will just be digested like regular milk and the special benefit will not be available to the foal. So why would a foal not get enough colostrum? Let's break the answer down into two possibilities: the mare didn't have any (or enough), or the mare had it but the foal did not nurse it (or did not nurse enough). Reasons a mare wouldn't have enough colostrum: -She was terribly malnourished herself (i.e. an abuse situation). -Fescue toxicosis: she was eating fescue grass or hay throughout her pregnancy. -She actually made too much too early and it leaked out before the foal was born. -A few mares foal without any colostrum or milk for no known reason. Reasons a foal would not get enough colostrum: -Could not get up and nurse; Too weak or too cold. -Having an unusual amount of trouble finding the milking station and latching onto a nipple. -Gets imprinted on to something else and ignores its mom. How do we know whether the foal absorbed enough antibodies? A blood sample from the foal can be tested for the level of immunoglobulin G (IgG). Since a foal can potentially absorb the antibodies for up to 24 hours after birth, it is necessary to wait for that amount of time to pull the blood to determine the full amount the foal received. The results are usually reported as none absorbed, inadequate levels, questionable levels, or adequate levels. If the levels are anything less than adequate, the foal can be given a transfusion from another horse or a specially prepared plasma tranfusion. The regular transfusion involves taking whole blood from a healthy horse and giving it to the foal. This results in an immediate increase in antibody levels. The specially prepared plasma is taken from horses who are hyper-immunized or vaccinated more often than usual, resulting in higher levels of immunity in the plasma. Twenty-four hours after the transfusion, the foal can be sampled again to determime the new, hopefully increased IgG levels. (more coming tomorrow) Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina
stubborness from being spoiled
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here's a slightly different perspective on why Fjords may be thought of as being stubborn. I believe more Fjords are raised spoiled than are many other horses. Well-meaning owners shower the Fjords with love (which is good) but don't know how to teach them to respect people (which is bad). This results in friendly, loving Fjords who are used to getting their own way. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina
Hello All!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello everyone! I have been lurking for the last few days, but wanted to let you know how much I appreciate all your Fjord knowledge. I am currently working with an 8 yr old Fjord gelding. He was purchased by my clients 2 yrs ago and was taken to a dressage barn where the trainer tried to turn him from a laid back green horse into a dressage horse in 6 months. When his owners (beginners...knew nothing about horses) brought him to me he was terrified of the bit and running away at the slightest sound. About a year later he is back to being quiet and sane and is doing beginner lessons for me. He still gets REALLY nervous at strange noises, but seems to trust me enough not to run off with even the littlest kid. He is a quirky boy though. He has a tendency to turn into the middle of the ring if they stop riding him. I think he figures that if they aren't going to work why should he? My students get a little upset in at first, but once they understand that under that Eeyore like demenor he really is thinking, they all laugh and comment on how smart he is. I love him to peices and have decided that the next horse I purchase will be a fjord. Kate (who loves her Baldur more each day)
Great Lakes Fjordhest
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello everyone! We are sending membership applications for the new club, Great Lakes Fjordhest, out this week. Is there anyone else, besides those of you who have all ready contacted me, who would like to receive one? If so, please email me privately. Regards, Lynda
Re: Eagle watch foal watch!
This message is from: Mike May [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 01:44 PM 3/25/99 -0500, you wrote: This message is from: Julia Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe for those of you out west it isn't a big deal, but we have just spotted a pair of eagles with a nest in the woods beside our farm! For upstate New York, this is very unusual. That is cool! I will have to come on an Eagle Watch now. I read an article in the Thousand Island Sun a week or so ago that said there was 5 of them on the ice near Alexandria Bay, NY. They had a picture of 2 of them on the front page. We have never seen them up there before either. Who knows maybe we will find a Fjord around there someday (besides Pat Wolfe's that are about 75 - 100 MI from there) Mike
Re: Re: FJORD MYTHS FJORD FACTS
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just had an interesting conversation with Marge Kitteridge about Fjords in Disabled programs. [...] Some years back she had two [Fjord] geldings in the program who were not reliable and eventually went on to other pursuits,however the mares she currently has are troopers in every respect. [...] Any star handicapped boys doing service out there? Vivian There are several handicapped riding programs in this area, one of which (BOK Ranch) uses 2 Fjord geldings. I first saw them when they were youngsters, maybe 4 and 5 years old. The lady said that the 4-year-old wasn't totally dependable yet, but the 5-year-old was really good. He was the one they'd take on hospital visits, as they could trust him not to lip at the many tubes some of the kids had attached. I watched a lesson, during which the pony put up with a heck of a lot! What impressed me the most was a drill on hand-eye co-ordination. The kid, sitting on the pony, tried to shoot baskets (a very soft rubber ball, into an appropriately-sized hoop, on a tree only a couple of feet away). The kid, of course, repeatedly missed, so the ball bounced off the tree and hit the pony---head, neck, everywhere---then rolled around, often under the pony. The kid's brother noisily scrambled around, even under the pony, retrieving the ball and giving it back. This patient Fjord just stood there, forehead leaning into the chest of his handler, with a this, too shall pass expression on his face. That was 13 years ago, and they're still using the same 2 Fjord geldings, so I'd say they've probably done their jobs well. Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Re: Iowa
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well here we go again, We rescued the Lippizans in World War 11, fed them potatoes and beets and most of them lived. Now where are we rescuing them? Jean Gayle Aberdeen Wa. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Iowa This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello everyone! There was an article in one of the horse magizinesI cannot remember which...about a Lippizan rescue effort. Does anyone wish me to look it up for further information? Regards, Lynda, 40 more days to MI!
Eagle watch foal watch!
This message is from: Julia Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe for those of you out west it isn't a big deal, but we have just spotted a pair of eagles with a nest in the woods beside our farm! For upstate New York, this is very unusual. We are thrilled, and are now watching for the eagles as well as for the two foals that are past due! Let me tell you, when you see the eagles soar, so does your heart!
Re: Birth Announcement
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Congratulations Ann and husband, with all that snow good thing you planned an at home birth. Espen is a new name to me, its background? I am also glad you have so much snow as, ouch, it is a bit early to ride. Happy long life to Espen. Jean Gayle Aberdeen WA -Original Message- From: Mark and Ann Restad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Fjordhorse List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 3:18 AM Subject: Birth Announcement This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad [EMAIL PROTECTED] No, not a foal, I had my baby boy, Espen Karl on March 15 at home. I promised to let you guys know. NOW if the 7 feet of snow would go away, I could ride my new mare... Ann Restad
stubborness
This message is from: Dave McWethy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe we can put stubbornness on the Myth side, except that for appearances, it is so. On the Truth side, you have to remember that these horses have been around a long, long time, before they could rely on humans, whom they saw at a primitive stage of being humans, to safely guide them. Their ancient brains tell them they should be skeptical that humans' intentions for them are better than what they can come up with on their own. They need to be convinced that we have common interest, and that humans can be trusted. And at one time or another, or more, none of us should be trusted by the horses, from their point of view. Living on the food chain like the rest of us plants and animals, no wonder they have survived to the 20th century. Along with the stripe down their back, they have retained willful behaviors. No pushovers, these Fjords. Because of these strong wills, I imagine, risking a human point of view, they have a confidence that stands out in comparison to many other breeds. They are willful, and in your face, because they are not afraid of humans. But I have almost never seen unkindness in a Fjord, towards people. They are willing to give us a chance, and if we need it, several more. If eventually we figure out how to ask, they will do almost anything for us. They will work for us with the greatest stubbornness there is. If they are stubborn, I wouldn't want them any other way.
Stubborn and foal IgG
This message is from: misha nogha [EMAIL PROTECTED] When I had the time to study dressage, I was riding Appaloosas. Everyone said they were stubborn too. In fact, my Swedish instructor, pulled his chin, looked at my horse and said, It's not that he is stubborn, but very smart, but sometimes the smart horses are hard to work with because they use their brains against you. You must be smarter than your horse, and you must persuade him that this movement is going to be great for both of you. I think Fjords are the smartest horses I have worked with and I know trainers that just give up on them right away. On the other hand, I think a Fjord horse can be the best partner you ever had, if you are willng to take the time. I have to agree with Carol, I would never switch to another breed again if I can avoid it. I was wondering about the person who wrote to the list that just had a foal and whose vet said they could not make it out for a week. So you will be missing your IgG test then? I think this is really important and if my vet is too busy, he makes an 'emergency' stop to take it for me. I guess I think it is doubly important because one of my mares one year dripped a lot of milk before baby was born. She then lost most of her colostrum and so the baby's antibody level was low. We were able to take care of that right away. But if we had waited a week, maybe it wouldn't have worked so well. IgG test is always a part of my managment program then and now. Any comments Dr. Jacobsen? Misha
Re: Iowa
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello everyone! The bombing is to hopefully help stop the genocide happening in Yugoslavia. I think we in America get confused when we hear about the different ethnic groups there, and the fighting between them. What the problem essentially boils down to is the government of Yugoslavia is deliberately murdering Albanians. The Albanians have been killed, forced from their homes, etc. I for one, agree with NATO that we do have a responsibility to stop genocide. But then, I believe we as humans have that responsibility. I also hope we do not send in ground troops. There was an article in one of the horse magizinesI cannot remember which...about a Lippizan rescue effort. Does anyone wish me to look it up for further information? Regards, Lynda, 40 more days to MI!
Re: Re: Iowa
This message is from: Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oops ... I was going to send that to Dave ... I don't even know how it got sent, I wasn't even finished with it! Sessoms wrote: This message is from: Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dave McWethy wrote: Speaking of war, can someone explain to me what's going on in Yugoslavia? It's beyond me to figure how bombing will accomplish anything other than confuse them for a time. It's not a whole lot different from the mothers we see in the grocery store, hitting their kid to punish it for hitting some other kid. They can't exactly claim, Bombing worked in Iraq, so we'll use it in Yugoslavia. Looks to me like they've run out of good ideas and had a tantrum instead. 'Course, I could be wrong, and would be pleased to learn that. Dave ... The unfortunate thing about any military action is that we'll never know the results of our actions until they come about. I don't know if I agree or disagree with bombing Kosovo. I thought Reagan was trigger happy, Clinton may have beat all records of military use in 'peace time'. I think the idea is to render them incapable of mass murder by blasting their military machines. I think I would definately oppose troops on the ground. Perhaps they should arm the weaker folks who want peace and their homes back. And these days it's much more common to see a youngster screaming at Grandma to shut-up and hitting her in the grocery store than it is to see someone turning a brat over their knee.
Yugoslavia, was Re: Iowa
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 3/25/99 3:47:51 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Speaking of war, can someone explain to me what's going on in Yugoslavia? It's beyond me to figure how bombing will accomplish anything other than confuse them for a time. Makes little sense to me. And I'm also afraid for the future of my second favorite horse breed. The Lippizan stud is endangered again. Here's a slightly dated article about their plight, written well before the bombing started. http://www.hic.net/texashorse/thdliz.htm If I were ever again to buy a non-fjord horse, it would be a Lippizan. I only hope that they are far away from the bombs. Most importantly, I am very worried about all the innocent humans who may get caught in the cross-fire. Pamela
Re: Seeing Spots and Snowbirds
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 3/24/99 23:29:57 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We are near a major snow bird destination and it appear there has been a mass exodus from the NW--has the rain been that bad? We can pick your neighbors out w/o looking at the plates because they drive s-l-o-w-l-y. It was. But things have cheered up a bit and we've been having a lovely spring (sometimes still a bit wet, but nothing like the winter!). I was ready to evacuate back in January and February, but now, wild horses couldn't drag me away from the beautiful Northwet! Pamela
Re: Birth Announcement
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 3/25/99 3:17:20 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No, not a foal, I had my baby boy, Espen Karl on March 15 at home. Congratulations! Hope your delivery was easy. Enjoy your little boy. Pamela
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #398
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, I just read today's Digest and would like to respond to the chatter about stubborness. I thought Marsha Jo Hannah's analogy of Fjord mentality and what motivates their thought processes was EXCELLENT. I have always said they were thinkers, which sometimes is mistakenly interpreted as stinkers by folks who are unfamiliar with Fjords. Horses are my business, my only business. I train horses and people all day long so have a vast data base, if you will, of experiences to draw from when forming my opinions about different breeds of horses. I recently read an article in the Horse Rider magazine about the different breed characteristics. The author had polled several trainers and had compiled their responses. It was an excellent article. Had to chuckle because it seems that those trainers had all arrived at about the same conclusions as I had over the years. However, Fjords were not mentioned in the article. Too bad they didn't ask me!! Anyway, after a long day in the barn dealing with the various breeds and their idiosyncrasies, I can truthfully say that I am ever so grateful to own Fjords! For the most part, they are ever so receptive to lessons. Compared to many other breeds, they are like sponges when it comes to their lessons! I show them how to do something twice and by the third try they about have it. What a treat for me. And along the way, they are not trying to dissect me and break me into little pieces! Frankly, I have come to the conclusion that most other breeds are DUMB when compared to Fjords. BOY, am I prejudiced or what!? Find myself rather gritting my teeth any more when someone books another breed for me to train! Yesterday was a prime example of why I like Fjords more with each passing day. I have a certain Paint gelding in training. I've been working on his neck reining. He's started to get it, but it hasn't been easy for him. I had set up 2 barrels to work him around. He is left handed so wanted to work him primarily to the right. After about 36 trips to the right, I still couldn't detect any progress!! Frustrating for me as his trainer. I always feel pressure to get something accomplished for owners who are paying for my time! Anyway, was very grateful at the end of that day for my Fjords!! Just my 2 cents worth. Thanks for listening. I need to head for the barn now. Have to ride that dad-burned Paint again and see if he had a chance to think about it over night?! Gayle Ware Field of Dreams Eugene,OR.
Stubborness
This message is from: Cynthia_Madden/OAA/UNO/[EMAIL PROTECTED] We have four horses - our first two, Morgans, our next acquisition, a Trakehner, and our last, Tank the Fjord. In an intelligence comparison we rate the Trakhener and the Fjord at the top and the Morgans *much* lower. I think this is result of stricter, long-term European standards of breeding where there are higher expectations of horses than you get with American relatively careless breeding practices (just my opinion - but I used love Quarter Horses as a kid and couldn't believe what had happened to them when we got back into horses twenty years later). This does not mean we love or appreciate our Morgans any less! - but we often appreciate and have to cope with the intelligence of the Trak and the Fjord. I think what some consider the stubborness factor is having to deal with a more intelligent animal which causes us to have rethink our approaches and relationship to them and become a little smarter and more horse savvy ourselves. So Fact: Fjords are, overall, smarter than the average horse! I also agree with Marsha Jo and Beth's comments. Cynthia Madden Omaha, Nebraska USA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Not Stubborn
This message is from: Catherine Lassesen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey, they are not stubborn... they are Norwegian
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #397
This message is from: Mike May [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 06:42 PM 3/24/99 -0500, you wrote: This message is from: Nancy Hotovy [EMAIL PROTECTED] So since she foaled for sure last night what is it? A boy or girl? ;-) Mike Mike - Joke's on you - She DID foal that night. A very nice filly thank you and even on Rich's birthday. So it sounds like these Hard Water test strips you were talking about work pretty well then. So tell us more about them. And congratulations on the new filly! Mike
Re: Re: FJORD MYTHS FJORD FACTS
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just had an interesting conversation with Marge Kitteridge about Fjords in Disabled programs. Marge has been extensively involved with handicapped riding programs for a very long time and I'm just going to tell you what she said about Fjords. This is her opinion, not necessarily mine. Some years back she had two geldings in the program who were not reliable and eventually went on to other pursuits,however the mares she currently has are troopers in every respect. She said that they can stand for hours while blind people groom and touch them, but are equally good at doing a pretty decent training level dressage tests. In her experience she feels the mares are better suited to the program than the geldings. Now I want to say again this is not my opinion, and I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule, but I found it interesting that Jean's drop outs were both geldings. How about it list. Any star handicapped boys doing service out there? Also on another note. Last year I sent a 5 year old mare to my daughter's event trainer, Karen McCollum for 3 weeks of jumping training. When I called her about 1 week into training this is what she said. Nykka is the highlight of my day. In one week she's learned what it takes me one month to teach my TB's to do. This was Karen's first Fjord experience. I'd like to add that she didn't need to adjust her training methods one iota. What worked for traditional event breeds worked equally as well, perhaps even better, with a typical Fjord. When I spoke with Jo Whitehouse of the USCTA she said she wondered why there weren't more Fjords doing low level eventing and Pony Club as she imagined they would be a godsend in those areas. Now I know Karen M. evented her stallion on the West Coast, but it's the rare Fjord you see at a horse trial in New England. Pat Wolfe bought a gelding from Birgit Deeds,Donner, Ibelieve, who did very well at the GMHA Pony Club clinic. I saw the girl who used to ride him at the clinic and she said she really missed him. Sorry if I got his name wrong. Congratulations Ann Mark. I too had my last born at home. Barring any problems it is the way to go. He's twelve now so it's just a dim but beautiful memory. Good luck and enjoy every minute as I'm sure you will Vivian
Iowa
This message is from: Dave McWethy [EMAIL PROTECTED] I enjoyed your account of Iowa, Sally. The bicycle ride is the RAGBRAI. The last letters are Ride Across Iowa. It is sponsored by a newspaper, and is a huge annual event. 50,000 riders? Could that be right? I came across stories of the prison camp in Clarinda, Iowa (birth place of Glen Miller - they won't let you forget). The German prisoners replaced the Iowa boys who were fighting the rest of the Germans. No wonder they wouldn't escape! They were rescued from hellish war conditions, taken to Iowa and fed well, and worked on farms, which many probably did at home anyway. If word had got out, Germans would have surrendered in multitudes to get to Iowa sooner. After the Germans they had Japanese prisoners. They did not work in the fields, and I never learned if it was their refusal or policy. Speaking of war, can someone explain to me what's going on in Yugoslavia? It's beyond me to figure how bombing will accomplish anything other than confuse them for a time. It's not a whole lot different from the mothers we see in the grocery store, hitting their kid to punish it for hitting some other kid. They can't exactly claim, Bombing worked in Iraq, so we'll use it in Yugoslavia. Looks to me like they've run out of good ideas and had a tantrum instead. 'Course, I could be wrong, and would be pleased to learn that. At Harvard Ed School I had a classmate from Yugoslavia. I have wondered if she still lives there. I remember her name, Ljljana, which was easier once we knew to pronounce the j's as i's.
Birth Announcement
This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad [EMAIL PROTECTED] No, not a foal, I had my baby boy, Espen Karl on March 15 at home. I promised to let you guys know. NOW if the 7 feet of snow would go away, I could ride my new mare... Ann Restad
Re: Stubborness
This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think Marsha's contribution to the 'stubborness-thread' was great! Very few horse people consider the circumstanses that have formed every single breed when they talk about breed characteristics, which I think we need to remind people of when they talk about 'stubborn' or 'fat' fjords. Personally, I can think of few breeds (ok - I'm generalizing) more suitable as trail horses than fjords. They carry much weight, have a 'cool' dsiposition and are smooth-gaited. And in my experience, most of them stay with you even if you let them loose (e.g. for mushroom picking or having a cup of coffee). I've picked a lot of wild mushroms while Tina has been grazing next to me and she has NEVER gotten the idea to take off and leave me (or the grass?). I sometimes think that fjords bond in a different way with their owners than many other breeds (generalizing again, I know). They're a bit dog-like, aren't they? But of course - I'm a fjord fan and a lot is a matter of training, but anyway... Regards Anneli in Sweden where spring seem to be on it's way at last!
