shedding
This message is from: Debby Stai [EMAIL PROTECTED] My fjords are the only ones shedding, even the clipped one is. Got alot off of Amber yesterday. And she'd rolled and rubbed on the frozen sand and left a blanket of fjord hair. The small pony isn't shedding, and he's blanketed too. Does worry me some though as he does have some health issues and the vet had asked if he sheds out and what his coat is like. He's just 9yrs. old, a few little fat pockets, hes' on thyroid meds but all in all, he isn't fat. He'd mentioned insulin resistant or something like that?? His diet, per the vet, is good for this though, no grain, just a mineral pellet to add his thyroid med to, good grass hay, some alfalfa, and soaked beet pulp. The beet pulp has molasses in it but we soak it and then he gets his part drained. For the most part, this is what the fjords get, minus the thyroid med... I did take a look at the ponys coat today, really nice, shiny, slick for long hair. Debby
Re: stallion prevalence
This message is from: Steve Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: Ruth Bushnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] This predisposition (eg, stallion characteristics) will become increasingly apparent as the gene pool lessens, and lessen it will if a school of thought that supports only the creme d' la creme being bred continues unchecked. (endorsed by Evaluations). Repetitive use of prime stallion specimens is incrementally shrinking the circumference of our Fjord gene pool. I have posted this site below before, but in case there's someone who hasn't checked it out, I hope you do. It uses a scenario, of only choice dogs bred, to make for a crystal clear illustration of how a gene pool recedes, and recedes, and recedes. One of my biggest concerns with our breed is the limited gene pool. We don't allow close line-breeding or in-breeding, but it seems to me that the faddish use of only a handful of stallions, no matter how great they may be, could be very detrimental. And lately, I have noticed, several nice stallions have been gelded! I don't know what the reason is, if it is a trend or just coincidence, but it is scary to me. I am not promoting the use of stallions who are mediocre or ones faulty in typiness, mind or body. Meredith Sessoms Moulton Alabama ~ Dorina, NFR Aagot and Little Anjee ~
Re: Driving Trade Show - THE DRIVING FORUM - Sturbridge, MA
This message is from: Carol Riviore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Everybody from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia -- On March 5th 6th in Sturbridge, MA, the first annual DRIVING FORUM - A trade show for carriage/driving enthusiasts will be held at the Publick Inn in Sturbridge. -- Arthur and I, and our Stable Manager, Jaimie Benoit, are going down to exhibit. -- It's going to be a great weekend with lots of exhibitors and educational lectures on driving topics. -- At this time, there are three Fjord exhibitors listed - The Northeast Fjord Association . . . . Cheryl Beillard of Wake Robin Farm in Ontario exhibiting her Swedish Marathon Carriages . . . . an Beaver Dam Farm exhibiting our NOVA SCOTIA DRIVE/RIDE VACATIONS. -- There's a banquet Saturday night with still some tickets available. The Publick Inn is a wonderful, old rambling, historical inn of great charm. -- If you are anywhere in the N.E., NY, CT, NJ area, it would be well worth your while to spend the weekend at the DRIVING FORUM TRADE SHOW in Sturbridge, MA. Take a look at the Driving Forum website www.drivingforum.com Best Regards, Carol Rivoire http://www.beaverdamfarm.com Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet, Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 Tel:(902) 386-2304 Fax:(902) 386-2149 Carole Rivoire, author of THE FJORDHORSE HANDBOOK, only book in English on the Fjord breed, available from Beaver Dam Farm, $36.95 US includes PH
Re: importance of pedigrees
This message is from: Pat Holland [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am a firm believer in Pedigrees - There is nothing nicer after you have trained and worked with a stallion and know him well, then train and work with a mare and know her well - then their bred, and you get to start all over with their offspring, to train, to watch and then ride and/or drive and figure out what is coming from whom. It is the greatest joy, in my opinion a trainer gets. Sometimes it takes a few of the same match to figure it out - but I swear, its there for the figuring out. Its never 100% but if your tuned in its a close bet. I worked for one of the top breeders of QH performance horses. Jack and Mildred Janowitz of Franktown, CO - both were inducted in the QH Hall of Fame. After 40 plus years of figuring he knew what the foal was going to be all about when the mare was confirmed bred. And he was right. Sometimes we had an opps but the percentage was always in his favor. Pedigrees do tell. Speaking of Pedigrees - for those of you whom noticed I did make it back alive from my up north trip, thank you. I picked up a gelding of Ron Kit's breeding. His name is Rokida's Ottar, he is a full brother to Rokida's Niklaus - the very kind hearted and beautiful dark grey stallion that was presented at the Midwest Horse Fair a few times awhile back. He is by Valea's Lee and out of Ro Sandy's Vena. He is a four yr old gelding of way above average appearance. Major big time above - I believe Ron Kit were going to keep him a stallion, and this was one time the knife was wrong. He is one of the prettiest - ok, most handsome geldings I've ever seen. If anyone is looking for conformation and all that goes with performance FROM good conformation contact Kit. For those of you that were at the La Crosse Evaluation, he is very much like the rescue mare, that took high score, the one Wayne went on and on about -except a boy - a handsome boy. I'm not getting commission for him, he's not even in my barn - I just transported him and saw something wow. He is NOT vanilla - More like Chocolate Chip with extra mint - Consider this insider trading so to speak. : ) Pat Holland PSDo you guys up north ever hear of salting the roads
Re: stallion prevalence
This message is from: Steve Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... and sadly, a few others stallions in-use have passed on. Meredith Sessoms Moulton Alabama ~ Dorina, NFR Aagot and Little Anjee ~
shedding....
This message is from: Jeanne Zuker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not one hair!! Olaf has a really thick coat this year (of course I said that last year) long hair on his legs and he hasn't shed one hair. I have been brushing him and I have been looking to see if he starts shedding since this was asked. I live in the mid-Michigan area, he started putting on his winter coat last of Aug/early Sept. just like clockwork. Now I will be looking for when he starts shedding, I will make a note of it to see how he relates to other Fjords and look to see how it relates to the coming year. He of course enjoys the brushing and I enjoy the time we get together. Jeanne in MI
RE: Bloodlines
This message is from: Cynthia Madden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just can't help myself in replying to Beth's first comments about Starfire Arend and his mother, Maerta. I now own Starfire Chiron out of Obelisk and Sophie. I think Beth Sandy put a lot of thought into not only their stallion, but the mare they breed him to. Chiron (or Teddy as he is called here) is only 16 months old but has such personality. We just left him by himself for the first time a few weeks ago and went for a drive with Tank and Nigel. Teddy just went down to his corner where his next door buddy lives and stayed with him until we came back - no screaming or hysterics. He continues to do this when we leave. I find it amazing in a young horse. He is so brave and a jokester too. He learns well but not without some testing. He has is Dad's movement and I believe he will have his looks. I bought him because of the breeding program he came from. It is a always a gamble buying a young horse but I trust in his breeding to be what I think he can be and what I want him t! o be when he grows up. Cynthia Madden Las Cruces, NM [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/cmadden88011 Zia Carriage Driving Club: http://www.geocities.com/zcdc_nm
Re: bloodlines
This message is from: Carol Riviore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia where we're having a wild nor'easter. Ruthie, Thanks for posting the dog breeding site again. I'd missed it before. -- Just read some of it . . . and it definitely gives 'food for thought'. -- Very interesting the part encouraging breeders to think of the breed as a whole when breeding, and not only the result of that particular mating. -- You definitely have something there in your concern for a narrowing of the gene pool. -- However, how is a breeder to address this situation given the perennial problems of distance and lack of information on bloodlines. Over the years on this List, I've talked a lot about the European Fjord Studbooks. -- How, with their system of Studbook ownership of the stallions, and precise tracking of the quality of the mares bred and offspring produced, they are able to deterimine how each of the Approved Stallions are doing. --- I'm most familiar with the workings of the Dutch Studbook, and from my years of association, I know of certain stallions that have been eliminated from the Dutch breeding system because of various weaknesses. Weaknesses such as - a stallion with low fertility. . . a stallion that produced poor bites in too many of his offspring . . . a stallion who produced poor legs, feet, etc. The Dutch take great care to keep diversity in their Fjord gene pool. They do this by running the breeding program themselves. -- They place approved stallions in areas around the country, and move them every three years. -- Most people breed to the stallion in their area. They do this for economic reasons mostly. --- This prevents people from breeding for specific things, sometimes to the detriment of other qualities; such as, breeding for pretty heads, spectacular movement, height . . . whatever. Unfortunately, it's probably not possible for such a system to operate in North America, BUT, the very least our Registry should do is study the reasons behind the Dutch system . . . or the Norwegian system. -- Study what the goals are. -- Study what they're trying to prevent by such a system. ~ I'm super interested in bloodlines, and would love a system that would track different qualities. And this could be done on a limited basis, even with the relatively few horses that have been evaluated. There's one stallion that interests me. We've had a few of his offspring here, all out of different mares, and they do not have typical Fjord temperaments and attitudes. However, a few does not a reliable study make. -- Maybe it was just perverse luck that the few we've had were not typical. Bob van Bon, Chief Inspector of Fjords for the Dutch Studbook, has always said that they measure the character and attitude (temperament) of a horse through the performance tests. -- They NEVER do it when the stallion is presented in hand, no matter how badly he acts up. -- The Dutch Performance Tests (IBOP) are designed to measure character and attitude, among other things. This is for all three of their tests - The Riding Test, The Driving Test, and the Agricultural Test. -- For instance, in the Agricultural Test, the pulling part, the horse is assessed as to how he does the pull. Is he eager and willing, or does he have to be coerced into pulling? -- Same thing for the riding and driving tests. How willing and eager is the horse in his work? -- Also other things, such as -- Does he stand still? Does he stand quietly to be hitched? These tests prove what kind of horse it is. -- ~~~ The Danish stallion, Rei-Halsnaes has been mentioned several times here. I was amazed that Patti Jo mentioned their pretty heads. -- Yes, now that she's mentioned it, I guess most of them do have pretty heads, but to me, the most outstanding quality of this line is they're wonderful movers. As to a lot of energy, that I've never remarked on. -- I mean, they have normal, sufficient energy, but not in the least high strung or anything. Not the ones I know of anyway. In any case, this all points out that none of us have seen enough horses by different bloodlines to make reliable judgements. -- The exception, of course, are the breeders owning stallions who have produced a lot of offspring. -- I'd say a stallion would have to have produced at least 30 foals to make any kind of judgement. -- This is really a miniscule number, but I suppose you get some idea with 30 foals. ~ Our stallion, Gjest, has produced hundreds and hundreds of offspring in Norway, Holland, and with us. -- We know what he produces. It's very well documented. -- Big bodies, big bone, big movement, and an excellent work ethic. Anyway, it is a really interesting subject, and I hope many
RE: Bloodlines
This message is from: Elizabeth German [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am the proud, excited and humbled owner of Starfire Arend, the horse Beth Beymer of Starfire Farm mentioned in her post about bloodlines. He's my first fjord and will soon join my family of a retired Thoroughbred, a retired Appaloosa, a nearly retired Appaloosa, and a 19 yr old 16'3 hh Hanoverian I'm learning dressage with. It'll be quite the menagerie! I'm so excited, I can't stand it. I hadn't planned on buying another horse, but after having a wonderful time at fjord fun day in October 2003, I went to the pasture to say goodbye to the brat pack -- the two year olds at Starfire. Arend came up to me and I burst into tears, feeling I could not leave him. Thus began my journey into the wonderful world of fjords! While I'm sure she right that his bloodlines deserve credit for his abilities, I have to say that Beth's training (and Sandy's care and support) deserve at least as much credit as his genes for his performance and temperament. Beth is a truly amazing trainer! Aside from teaching Arend the correct technical things, she has fostered his natural trust and curiosity, praised and rewarded his willingness from the moment he was born -- allowing him to do perform the way his genes intended him to! I hope I can do him justice but I know he is a trusting soul who will forgive my mistakes and that we will have a lifetime of fun together. Despite the 500 mile distance between his new home and Starfire, we will continue to work with Beth as often as possible so that she can keep us from straying too far from the path she and Sandy began. The genes are just the beginning! Beth German New Mexico [Original Message] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (fjordhorse-digest) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 1/20/2005 10:40:48 AM Subject: fjordhorse-digest V2005 #17 fjordhorse-digest Thursday, January 20 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 017 In this issue: Large Animal Vets RE: Shedding Re: shedding, blankets and winter Re: PNFPG Show contact needed Re: Large Animal Vets bloodliines Re: fjordhorse-digest V2005 #16 Re: Large Animal Vets Re: bloodliines Re: Myriam photo Loki bloodlines and behavior NFHR website RE: insurance RE: bloodlines and behavior More snow humor and no vet Translations and bloodlines Re: fjordhorse-digest V2005 #16 Re: NFHR website address Re: NFHR website Re: bloodlines and behavior Re: stallion prevalence Marathon cart for sale Re: stallion prevalence See the end of the digest for information on how to retrieve back issues. -- Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:29:00 -0600 From: dfle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Large Animal Vets This message is from: dfle [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm very fortunate--we have a large animal vet just 10 miles away. He will deal with most things for the horses and cows and does make farm calls even when I call after hours and get him out of bed. However, the idea that women don't go into large animals is not true. I am also very fortunate because we are about 30 minutes from the Missouri Landgrant University which has a veterinary teaching hospital. They have two mobile equine units that make farm calls and you can take an emergency in at any hour--24 hour care for serious problems. All of the vets on the mobile unit (young trainees and the experienced veterinarians) are all women. They do a wonderful job with horses. The main mobile unit is a woman vet who is probably the best veterinarian I have ever met. She dealt with an abscess on a horse that a vet at the last place I lived had a hard time with. She handled her with no problem and was training a young student with her. The vet school is a bit expensive, but my husband thinks it's better to be contributing to students' education than paying for an individual veterinary's house or whatever. I'm blessed to say the least. And I also have a great farrier who was for a time at the vet school and then went out on his own. I wouldn't trade him for anything. My horses love him. Anyway, there are women out there doing a great job in large animals probably trained right here in Missouri. Rosemary Sent via the WebMail system at cmnt1.c-magic.com -- Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:00:54 -0800 (PST) From: Cynthia Madden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Shedding This message is from: Cynthia Madden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tank starts getting his winter coat in August and starts his first shed in January - Omaha or Las Cruces. Daylight must have more to do with it than temperature. Teddy Nigel started shedding at the same time. Cynthia Madden Las Cruces, NM [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Web
PNFPG newsletter Stallion Issue
This message is from: Ursula Brian Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just a reminder to those of you who want to get in on the next issue. We are featuring 'Stallions of the West'. At this stage the response has been phenomenal and I have already added 2 pages to the existing format. If there are to be additions I will have to have enough material to warrant 4 more pages (1sheet) which is great . I know there are more western' stallions out there and I want to hear from you. For every 1/2 to full page ad ($20 $30) we are offering an additional 1/4 page feature about your stallion for FREE. That's a heck of a deal. It will be a great resource come breeding season and could be a 'keeper'. I am planning a short holiday in Mar/Apr so have moved the deadline forward so I can get it done and sent off . The deadline is as soon as the pages are filled and before the end of Feb. If you are interested, send me a quick note and I will save you a space or contact me for details Ursula Ursula Brian Jensen Trinity Fjords Box 1032 Lumby BC, V0E 2G0 Canada 250-547-6303 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://okjunc.junction.net/~ujensen/
RE: bloodlines
This message is from: Carole Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] Patti, I agree completely. The list is great. So friendly and informative. I really look forward to everyone's postings. The key to winter sanity while we are all cooped up and not able to have as much horse fun. I was in Appleton WI in November picking up a new fire truck. WI a nice state. I am in Northern WV. I complain about the weather but it is much better than what most of the list has to deal with. It is 20ish today. ICY roads last night and a big snow on its way on Saturday. I wish I was a Fjord person and hope to be some day. Right now I am enjoying training two young Haflingers. Another great breed. Let's hear it for the draft ponies! I hope to introduce Fjords to this immediate area because the only entries in the draft pony classes in the local shows last year were Haflingers. I see one of the list members drives Haflingers and Fjords together. I would love to hear more about that. Anyway, if I am ever lucky enough to get my career back on track and buy my Fjord (I already have one picked out so keep your fingers crossed), I might have a better idea of what to expect thanks to the good folks on this list! Can't beat the general horse care and training info either. Shedding. I got a little nervous last week when the temps went close to seventy. Since to tulips and daffodils were trying to come up, I was afraid the horses would start to shed too soon. No, the little gingersnap ponies are hanging on to their hair. Happy training news. Easter, two y/o Haflinger let me lean all over her back and I jumped up a couple of times with my hands on her back. She side stepped a little but nothing silly. My dream is to have her ground driving by April and some mild saddle work by summer. Thanks good Fjord list people! Carole in Northern WV Carole -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave and Patti Walter Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:46 PM To: fjord horse Subject: bloodlines This message is from: Dave and Patti Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well I guess I'm really glad I was so bored the other day and wrote in to the list, the conversation has been wonderful, I only wish we could ALL be in a living room sipping tea or cocoa.(Remember I live in Wi, it's cold her) Say, TRY and come to the MWFHC's Winter meeting in Feb. in MN and we can talk some more about this conversation and others!! It is the BEST part of the weekend, just being with other Fjord people and talking Fjordies! I totally agree with Phil and others that the NFHR is a WONDERFUL tool. I thank Wayne and the board members and all who volunteer at the evaluations, it's a great assest to the breeders and the buyers and just to our bred in general. BIG THANK YOU. Beth, Silas has been my biggest challenge but also the easiest. In regards to forwardness, lightness in the seat and legs and ENERGY. I love that in a Fjord. BUT , that is me. I get a little bored with the too quiet ones. :-)) Arend sounds a lot like Silas, they are s intune and smart. In one, ok several, of our jumping classes last year, I totally forgot to even THINK about asking Silas for the correct lead. You know that boy came off EVERY SINGLE line on the correct lead, he KNOWS which one to take. A very high level trainer once said, under 3ft leave them alone, they should KNOW which one to take. Maybe I'm subconsciously thinking that to be nice to Silas. Ok, truth be know, I just get nervous and go brain dead. I usually think about it about 3-4 strides later!!! Patti Jo Walter Francis Creek Fjords Two Rivers WI -getting dumped on today, lake effect, the one inch is turning in to SEVERAL, more on the way tomorrow, YES, love it when it snows!!!
Beaver Dam
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just got a copy of Dressage Today and was pleasantly surprised to see some of Beaver Dam's horses, with a little paragraph about it. Well done Carol. I just wish the author had said a bit more about the fjords than you'll fall in love with their temperment. She should have included their beauty, talent and charm! Pamela Northern Holiday Horses Welcome Polaris
RE: Shedding Phenomena
This message is from: Linda Lottie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ever since I have owned fjords.5 years or so..they begin to shed in early January and start growing their winter coats in Sept after shedding their summer coats in Aug.every year.related to hours of light in the day me thinks!!! Linda Baker Lottie...MN snowing lightly and balmy gt;From: quot;Karen McCarthyquot; lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; gt;Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com gt;To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com gt;Subject: Shedding Phenomena gt;Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:29:43 + gt; gt;This message is from: quot;Karen McCarthyquot; lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; gt; gt;Hi all, I haven't the time at the moment (and I really shouldn't be gt;reading or posting to the List now, as I am supposed to be at work!), but gt;if someone does have the time to research into the List archives to see gt;what the dates were every year that folks would start reporting the gt;shedding occurance, I think it would be kinda neat. Is there a pattern, gt;an average date? Then, if we got really elaborate, we could see how it gt;matched up to weather patterns and events...Gee, can you tell I would gt;rather be anywhere than work right now??!! Hey Jean E. or Marsha Jo, this gt;has your name's written all over it! gt; gt;Btw, my outdoor, non-stabled ponies are just starting the shedding thing. gt;We have had 8quot;-10quot; of snow on the ground for over 2.5 weeks now, and over gt;the past 8 days, nothing but freezing fog, which creates what the locals gt;refer to as poconip, where every physical thing that projects into the gt;fog, wire, hair, tree branches, is covered in a delicate covering of fine gt;ice. Very pretty when the sun rises up behind it, truly a rare event here gt;these days. Please send sun someone! gt; gt;Btw Ruthie, I am going to go back and read the article you posted re. gt;shrinking the gentic pool w/ over-intensive selective breeding. Looks gt;very interesting; I am really enjoying all of the posts concerning usage gt;of Eval. results, especially Phil's. gt; gt;Kmac _ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
NFHR website
This message is from: janet [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you Mike May has contacted me to help. I do not know why I could not down load the forms. I do have a recent version of acrobat, but was getting jumbled up jibberish coming out of my printer, and also the forms themselves were missing. Janet
Re: stallion prevalence
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Though my passion with genetics is fixed mostly on color (duh), I've always found it fascinating that so many breeders value stallions so much more than mares. This is, of course, hardly limited to the Fjord breed (actually, I find Fjord breeders to be better about this than most), or to horses in general. So often I see horses for sale and the listing will have the sire and mare named, then their sires (like: by Stallion A, by Stallion B, out of Mare A, by Stallion C). I just don't get it! Similarly, I never quite understood why distant bloodlines are considered so incredibly important. Beyond knowing that the animal comes from quality lines, what other value does it actually have? What happens to the value if only only one or two of the horses in the pedigree are known to be high quality...while the rest are nobodies? Jamie In the Mountains SW of Denver, CO
Re: stallion prevalence
This message is from: starfirefarm [EMAIL PROTECTED] This predisposition (eg, stallion characteristics) will become increasingly apparent as the gene pool lessens, and lessen it will if a school of thought that supports only the creme d' la creme being bred continues unchecked. (endorsed by Evaluations). Repetitive use of prime stallion specimens is incrementally shrinking the circumference of our Fjord gene pool. I have attended a number of NFHR evaluations, as well as evaluations in Norway, it think I can speak to this a bit. Having gone through the evaluator's training program, as well as having completed one evaluation as an official evaluator, I have to say that breeding la creme d'la creme is NOT what is being endorsed at the NFHR evaluations. If that is what people are hearing, that is unfortunate. At every evaluation I have attended, either as an exhibitor, trainee or evaluator, breeders are encouraged to look at the offspring of the breedings to determine if their breeding program is going the direction they desire. What the evaluations are endorsing is looking critically and objectively at the different aspects of the particular horse they want to breed; determine whether it has enough positive attributes to conisider continuing on in the gene pool, then making an INFORMED decision as to which the best mating MIGHT be. I clearly remember, at each NFHR evaluation, comments made along the lines that, just because an animal didn't receive a ribbon in the Blue (top quality) category, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be included in a breeding program. It means that you might want to take a closer look at that particular horse's attributes and faults and breed accordingly to try to enhance the good qualities and remove the poor qualities from future generations. Now, Ruthie, I can just hear you saying to yourself, THAT's exactly what I'm talking about! Too much selective breeding decreases the gene pool! However, doesn't natural selection (as in the wild) do the same thing to a certain degree? Horses with really poor conformation (i.e., crooked legs, poor hooves, no stamina, or no smarts, etc.) simply didn't survive to reproduce. Because we, as an organization, can't dictate whether or not a horse is approved or not as a breeding animal (thank goodness we can't!) the main function of the NFHR evaluation system is education! Time and time again I've seen people bring their horses to the evaluations to learn more about conformation. To learn about movement, type and character. To learn more about how to evaluate their own stock and the stock they might be interested in adding to their breeding program. Unfortunately, most of the history of selecting breeding horses in North America has evolved through the horse SHOW system, comparing horses to each other, not through examining a horse and comparing it to a standard as is done in the evaluation system. What won was what was bred. In my opinion, that is why the Quarter Horse industry has its difficulties with such things as the legacy of the problems with the Impressive line (HYPP along with non-performance.) Color breeds (such as Paints and Appys) have been breeding for what wins, color, and ignoring temperament and soundness issues. Morgan and Arab enthusiasts bred for flash and forgot to include the brains (things are slowly changing, as people are recognizing problems, but it's taking a long time to correct.) Because of this focus on winning, I think there is still a mind set that only blue ribbon animals are worthy of breeding. As I said before, this is unfortunate, but is not what the NFHR evaluation system is trying to promote. There is the added aspect of how breeders and participants choose to utilize their evaluation results with respect to advertising their stallions. Perhaps that is where some of the objectivity is lost, as some think that, because a stallion has achieved a high score in conformation and performance, it is the mate of choice. That cannot be controlled in this country of commerce, of course, but individuals CAN control the outcome if, in chosing a mate for their horse, they utilize all of the information available to them to make their decision. It's a good discussion. Thanks for bringing it up. Beth -- Starfire Farm Beth Beymer and Sandy North http://www.starfirefarm.com Remember, a horse can tell you a lot of things, if you watch and expect it to be sensible and intelligent. Mary O'Hara - My Friend Flicka
Marathon cart for sale
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi list ! Posting this from my pairs list for Vivian. This is a very good carriage for anyone wanting to do CDE's, train in the terrain ect. ( MICHELE NOONAN.HERE IT IS ! GET OUT YOUR CHECKBOOK. ) ; ) Lisa Hello List, I have a Pair Pony ECC marathon carriage for sale. Dark green with brown pole cover, seat and lamp brackets. Used to school and has done a half dozen marathons, never wrecked in good working order. FEI weight 506 pounds. Nice center of gravity as I drive it here in the hills of Vermont alone and have never had a problem. Contact me by e-mail or phone 802 885 5762. I am leaving in 5 days for FL so if you are interested please call soon. Hope most of you are warmer than I am. Vivian Creigh, Springfield VT
Re: stallion prevalence
This message is from: Ruth Bushnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] First let me say that I'm not arguing about whether or not a stallion is predominent.. why would I? ..arguing over a fixed mathematical equation would be an exercise in futility. I stopped short, in my assertion for an equation for both Fjord parents influencing their offspring, and should have gone on to say that some characteristics can be reinforced and intensified by gene overlapping, linebreeding... because of course you would be gene doubling, tripling, etc. I imagine much of this has occurred because the Fjord breed is a comparatively limited gene pool, but because of the complexities of gene tracking, it would be next to impossible to make any kind of an assumption for either parent.. which is not to say that some characteristics are more noticeable than others, more readily seen, but those few obvious similarities do not make a case for a predominant stallion .. maybe the mare has similar genetic roots? This predisposition (eg, stallion characteristics) will become increasingly apparent as the gene pool lessens, and lessen it will if a school of thought that supports only the creme d' la creme being bred continues unchecked. (endorsed by Evaluations). Repetitive use of prime stallion specimens is incrementally shrinking the circumference of our Fjord gene pool. I have posted this site below before, but in case there's someone who hasn't checked it out, I hope you do. It uses a scenario, of only choice dogs bred, to make for a crystal clear illustration of how a gene pool recedes, and recedes, and recedes. http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/breeding/geneticfreq.htm Ruthie, nw mt US
Re: bloodlines and behavior
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: janet [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would wager the mare actually has more than 50% of the influence on the foal. She spends nearly 6 months rearing the foal, and it has been said, that a mare that allows the baby to push her around often produces foals that are head strong vs the mare that disciplins her baby. But since one stallion produces many babies a year vs one per year for the mare, following stallion lines is going to be more productive. Janet Hi folks, I have really been enjoying this thread - a lot of food for thought. Jane Smiley's book, A Year at the Races, is a very interesting look at the personality, ability, and interaction with humans of horses. She breeds thoroughbreds and some go the track. She not only analyzes their dam and sire but also talks about those early influences of the foal and his/her mother and other horses early on and how some events or situations trump breeding and influence the horse for life. Of course owner handling and early training also greatly influence a horse's future life. This is a fun and informative book to read but she does have an animal psychic that she often confers with, so you have to accept psychics or ignore it if you don't believe. When I sold my Hanoverian, Glory, a breeder called me looking for a new breeding mare to replace one of hers that had just died. Mine had the same sire as hers had and that was what she was looking for. It was errie how she described her mare and how almost every behavioral trait was the same as mine. When I talked to this breeder, I started to understand Glory's behavior much better and how my trainer at the time was taking the wrong approach with her. It seemed that this whole line of mares had similar personalities which the breeder loved. For me, Glory was too much, but the breeder just loved them. These mares definately passed on strong traits but they could be linked back to their common sire. Unfortunately, the sire back two generations on the dam's side, passed on crooked front legs. Many of his descendents went on to become great jumpers anyway but my mare's crookedness caused her pain and unsoundness. Genie Dethloff in Ann Arbor, MI
Re: NFHR website
This message is from: Mike May, Registrar NFHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 12:29 AM 1/20/2005, you wrote: This message is from: janet [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi folks, I tried down loading the registration applications from the NFHR website and could not get any forms for registration or DNA. Also when I emailed the NFHR the email bounced. Is there another email address I can use to contact the registry? I just tried downloading the form it works fine. You may not have the Acrobat Reader installed. You need the free reader in order to open most of the forms on the web site. I will send one directly to you anyway. You can send mail to the registry by sending it to either: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Either of them will get to me. Mike Janet === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Executive Director Registrar PO Box 685 Webster, NY 14580-0685 Voice 585-872-4114 FAX 585-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NFHR website address
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Janet, The address I use for the NFHR is www.nfhr.com/ I checked it right after I read your email and it seems to work. That's where I got all my forms (for pretty much everything) too. Good luck! Kay Yellow Pony Farm SE Michigan
RE: bloodlines and behavior
This message is from: Gail Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have a REi Halsnaes grandson who looks at things the same way an Arab does. He is also energetic, though the work ethic is not fantastic (could be from being a stud and adult before receiving any real training). He does not spook and bolt, but sure looks, unlike any of my other Fjords. I have a Fjord that spooks and bolts, but from unseen things. Does not look at stuff. I have heard his bloodlines have other horses like him. Gail
More snow humor and no vet
This message is from: Philis B. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey, Holly and all, Guess what?? We had about five inches of snow yesterday and now more is coming tonight through Friday (maybe totaling 10 inches when it's all over).The plows are having a hard time plowing because there isn't any more room on some roads for the new snows that come. We get Lake effect snow. Holly, you must live further back from Lake Superior where the snowfall can be less. At least the weather warmed up a bit this week...but that means more snow. Here in Grand Marais we are without a large animal vet. It can be very frustrating at times because hauling a horse to Duluth in January in a snowstorm is NOT fun! There are some things I've learned to do out of necessity. I try very hard to keep my horses healthy. Thirty five years of practice has helped. Waiting for the next installment of the white stuff, Philis Anderson Grand Marais, MN
Re: fjordhorse-digest V2005 #16
This message is from: CATHI GREATOREX [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: Carol J. Makosky [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Is anyone's Fjord shedding yet? Oh my goodness...shedding, snow? Our SW Washington weather changed 'overnight' from freezing rain (and sticking) to temps of 62 degrees today! We are expecting much rain tomorrow, and for the rest of the week, possibly flooding in the region. Think mud, lots of it. So sad, no fluffy horses here in this weather. It is still dark when I go out to feed in the morning and dark when I arrive home from work and then out to the barn to feed in the evening. A very strange thing I noticed yesterday as I shone the flashlight on the white barn door in the am...freshly hatched bugs, very tiny with wings...these were 'stuck' to the damp door, from humidity I guess! And then tonight when I went out to feed, there was a bat flying about...I suppose happily eating the newly hatched bounty in January. When I finished my chores and went to leave the barn, there was that bat again, making lots of low swoops. I am not a big fan of low flying bats, so grabbed a couple plastic feed bags to swing around above my head.My boldest Fjord came to see what the fuss was about (yes! She left her food!) She didn't seem scared, so I guessed she had been 'sacked out' some other time...She did want to carefully inspect these bagsI'm thinking she smelled the fragrance of the former contents...alfalfa pellets. Its 11:25 pm, and 68 degrees in the house herehad just a small fire in the cookstove earlier. Cathi G SW Washington
Translations and bloodlines
This message is from: Norsk Wood Works [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from Phillip Odden in Northwestern Wisconsin. The Official Handbook for Fjord Horse Judges was compiled by Fjord Horse International. There are translations in several languages. The one I have is in English but the extensive terms for horse anatomy and the relative importance with regards to conformation are given in 6 languages, French being one of them. I find this handbook very useful. It can be ordered from the FHI representative in Germany I believe. Our registrar Mike May has the ordering information I think. I agree with Pat Holland and Patti Jo in that horses from certain bloodlines lend themselves to different activities. Antidotal evidence of the traits for individuals of these bloodlines is interesting and useful. However it is difficult to compare in that people may lack objectivity when evaluating horses close to them. Another problem is that each handler's expectations of a horse may differ. In North America the NFHR evaluation process is the best way to level the playing field the way I see it. With standard tests we can evaluate how each horse does compared to the breed standard. With FHI the tests will become more standard throughout the world. So if someone wants to buy a horse anywhere in the world, and it has been evaluated, you will have a pretty good idea of how that horse stacks up against the fjord breed standard. Over the years one can follow bloodlines of evaluated horses and have a tool to predict what you might expect from that bloodline. A written narrative to support the raw numbers would also be very helpful. The Norwegians and probably other National Registries have been doing this for some time. With more influential stallions the information is more complete because there are several evaluation reports on the offspring as well. In America we have only just begun and the number of evaluated animals is not great compared to the number of fjords out there. If you want more objective information about bloodlines then we need to have more animals evaluated. Granted we could do more in getting the information from the evaluations out sooner. I would like to see the information from an evaluation posted on the web within a week or even a day of the evaluation. All this takes time, expense, and people who are willing to make it happen. If you want an objective narrative about an animal someone has to write it and it has to say more than the horse was real nice, liked people, and didn't bite when you fed them carrots. Judging the disposition and character of an animal takes more than a twenty minute look at any point in time. I suppose that is why some countries use a five or six week station test with a team of evaluators to evaluate stallions. Given our problems of only limited numbers of horses being evaluated, and results not being published in a timely manner, we have fewer options. Under the circumstances perhaps the best way to understand bloodlines is to use the standardized evaluation results and ask reputable trainers and breeders about the horses they are using. Not all breeders train and use their horses. Go to shows or farms where fjords are used. Pay attention to how the horse is handled and what the handler expects from the horse. Will the horse stand still right out of the stall or does the handler have to work it down before it can be ridden or hitched? This is an interesting topic and very important to the future of our breed. Respectfully, Phillip Odden
