RE: Horse Trailering
This message is from: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mark, I trailer both ways, in slant load w/ dividers, loose w/ dividers tied to the side, depending on the situation + individuals. 80% of the time I use the slant dividers.I only haul loose if it is a foal (tie mama, but don't use dividers. If they are the only horse, I will aslo leave them loose, depending on the horse. Some horses pace, and I think its unsafe for them, plus it drives me crazy as the driver feeling the trailer slightly lurch randomly(my big Trakehner is guilty of this). If I am going on a super long trip, I will start out w/ them tied, (if I don't know the horse, otherwise I will have them in the slant stalls loose). After about an hour or so, or if I have to stop + get out, I will untie them, and leave them loose in the slant stall. If they are bothering the horse next to them, I will leave them tied, long enough so they can't reach under/over the divider and bother their neghbors. I am sure you know about allowing the horse to put its head as far down as possible when hauling so the horse has the ability to cough out debris.(I once had a horse scoped after a short 3 hour trip. We had to take her down to UC Davis for some other thing, but she was coughing and hacking terribly, so the teaching vet gave his students an impromptu lesson in scoping, and you should have seen all of the snotty crud in her esophagus! After a fine hacking spell she blew it out + was just fine, but it sure served as an important lesson for me (and the 1st year students!) As far as the 'rodeo person' telling you to teach the horse to back out because the horse runs the risk of falling down on its knees or face ... well heck pardner, take it in the context of a rodeo person telling you this. Do you know how fast most 'rodeo persons' drive? And how far their average trip is? No wonder their horses can be a bit woozey unloading! As far as how a horse unloads, I am of the school of asking a horse to back out. For 2 reasons: one is the old arguement of you might need to do it in an emergency, or you have to use an older style 2 horse side-by-side trailer, then what?? And 2, I consider it just another part of their training and developing trust + submission to me. Its just another lesson. A neat little trick I developed when working with Arabs (uh huh) was to lay a piece of heavy plywood right alongside a parked trailer. It's safe, feels different to them and makes NOISE. Start out by asking the horse to step on and stand quietly on it (I know, no bigee for a fjord...) Then start asking the horse to back (note: horse must have decent enuf manners to know how to back on regular terra firma 1st) Then refine it and drill it so that it is as if you are doing a little dance, w/ you as the Leader. Keep about 1.5' of slack lead. Let your body be the horses guide. Forward, halt, dwell + wait, back, 1 step, wait, 2 step,wait, etc, etc. Don't look at the horse, I just kind of focus on the shoulders/top of leg, enuf to see what might suddenly be coming if necesscary. When the horse has that down cold, then move into an open trailer, making it as open as possible w/ dividers tied back to one side. Again, don't look at the horse, just march on up and in. Horse will follow. Go all the way forward, and repeat the drill that you did on the plywood. The thing to remember is the horses feet move when YOU ask them. Be calm and deliberate but firm and wait. This can take a long time, so be prepared and make sure you can make a time commitmnet to them. I like to do this exercise on young horses, after we return back to our barn from a trail ride. They are home, relaxed and not so rushy + excited. If they get crooked backing, just calmly ask them to get straight by asking from the opp. shoulder (like you would teaching them show halter stuff.) Don't push, don't pull, just wait. I like to use the butt end of a dressage whip, or the end of a yacht rope lead to tap thier noses if they are trying to blast over me, and then slack out the lead when the back off. Don't have someone pulling their tail or placing their feet. Just keep asking, and eventually they will let one foot slide off (surprise!) and they will hop back up. Calm them down and keep asking. As soon as both hind feet are on the ground I praise them profusely, ask them to wait, then back off w/ the front feet. Repeat the profuse praise, then make a little circle + hop back in the trailer. It may take 4-5 trips back in and out and they will have it down pat. Congratulations! One last thing, about getting into a trailer w/ a horse being dangerous. With a disrespectful, scared horse there is risk, and try to work w/ a helper when loading unloading horses like this. Someone to untie for you b-4 you undo the butt chain or divider.But if its your horse, get to work! During a stop when checking horses en rou
Beware of the Grass
This message is from: "Gail Russell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi all, I thought I should put this warning out. In Northern California we have had approximately 42 days of rain out of the last 44. Something like that. But then the sun came out for three days. And..immediately, a horse in my neighbor's barn foundered. Unfortunately, due to a miscommunication with the owner, we noticed he looked a bit stiff after his inoculations (the next day) and assumed it was that. And turned him out on grass the next day. He was barely able to walk after the additional day on grass. This particular horse had foundered mildly before, and is 20 years old, with signs of insulin resistance. All of us were figuring we would have to knuckle down into a regimen of putting on grazing muzzles by this weekend.but we were too late. He looks like he is going to be OK, but it could have been a MUCH sadder story. The moral of the story is that a few days of sun on well-watered grass is all it takes to create that lethal concoction in the spring that produces grass founder. So..pay attention to those sunny days in early spring. It appears to only take a few (two or three!) to cause big problems for susceptible horses. Gail
Interesting article on dressage
This message is from: "Gail Russell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.eclectic-horseman.com/newsletter/Balance_v_Motion.php Seeing as how it has come up. Gail
RE: Salt Blocks & plastic rakes
This message is from: "Gwenn Berard Beaupre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> We have a mineral block made for horses beside the plain salt block. Both were blessed heavy to haul out there too! I put them across the paddock from the water & they were all over each of them for the first week & have now settled to an occasional stroll by. Except of course for Sonja who will nip off a chunk & spit it out .. then Edgar will pick it up & throw it back... then Sonja will decide she wants to keep it ... A couple months ago someone mentioned using a plastic rake, well, I've tried it. Now I cant rake my stall floor because Sonja will come stand over the rake & lean towards me until I scrub her belly. What a great idea for getting all the paddock yuck off the bottom of the horse belly without getting a face full... particularly since Sonja is sooo wide you cant just reach under. Edgar and the ponies have all taken to it like crazy too. My neighbour pulled into the driveway as I stood upwind and scraped the dried muck off, he laughed like crazy. An older French gent who has had horses for 60+ years, he though I was nuts until he watched the horses jockeying for a turn. He's trying it on his haflingers now... you've started a trend!
Pet of the Day
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I tried to send this this morning, but it didn't make it. Maybe the link didn't pass muster. Paste this into your browser and add http:// to the beginning. petoftheday.com// The pet of the day for Friday April 21 is a Norwegian Fjord horse. So cute! I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. - Douglas Adams
Re: Horse Trailering
This message is from: "shawna smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mark, I have a 16 ft. stock type trailer. Have had it almost 20 yrs. and really like it. If hauling just one horse, I usually leave them loose; they always ride facing the back. Can haul 4 horses, tied, and making sure any horse that might kick goes in last, at back of trailer. Always lead in and lead out but I think every horse should know how to back out. Shawna
Re: Horse Trailering
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have a small 12" stock trailer and I generally trailer only one at a time. I let them be loose and they do turn around an ride backwards most of the time. They can balance better backwards. I take them off facing out, no problem. They look down and step off nicely. I think it is safer than backing them out! Why not do it the easy way? When I had the two horse straight stall trailer with a ramp I had to ask them to back out, guiding with a tug on the tail. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, melting in progress, lots of mud in the corrals. 45 degrees >1. How many of you trailer your horse in an open trailer, like a stock >trailer, verses lets say a 2 or 4 horse horse trailer with individual >stalls, either slant or forward facing, if that makes sense? > >2. If you do trailer your horse in an open trailer, so they can just >sorta roam around when you drive. Do you take your horse out butt >first, or front first? > >I was told by a rodeo person that you should always take your horse out >rear first because they can sorta fall out and cause leg damage or fall >on their face, but maybe my fjords are smarter than the average quarter >horse, don't know. Anyhow my horses tend to walk up to the edge, look >down and step off rather gracefully.
transport
This message is from: "Debbie Shade" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I am looking for a ride for a pony from New England to Cody Wyoming or Billings Montana. Anyone know of any trips going or what it would cost me for a commercial hauler. Thanks in advance. Debbie NH _ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
Horse Trailering
This message is from: "Skeels, Mark A \(GE Healthcare\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Since I saw a post recently about horse trailering, I thought I'd set out my little problem with the Fjords and see who does what. 1. How many of you trailer your horse in an open trailer, like a stock trailer, verses lets say a 2 or 4 horse horse trailer with individual stalls, either slant or forward facing, if that makes sense? 2. If you do trailer your horse in an open trailer, so they can just sorta roam around when you drive. Do you take your horse out butt first, or front first? I was told by a rodeo person that you should always take your horse out rear first because they can sorta fall out and cause leg damage or fall on their face, but maybe my fjords are smarter than the average quarter horse, don't know. Anyhow my horses tend to walk up to the edge, look down and step off rather gracefully. It is very hard to get them to back out unless you actually go inside the trailer and hold their halter while backing them up as the open-ness of the trailer allows them to turn around and do just that. Were trying to get in a habit of not going into the trailer with the horse, as other people have said there may be a safety issue with this if the horse goes bizerk for some unknown reason. Makes a little sense, since there may be cars driving by and things like that, which could spook the horse. But then if I have a 8x24 horse trailer, how is that any different than getting in a 12x11 stall with them in the barn? Probably because there have been a few cases where someone was in the horse trailer and really got hurt when just that happened, but then I'm sure some people have also been hurt in horse stalls. Maybe we should just stay 30 feet away from them at all times and just watch them, or look at them on TV, but don't get too close to the TV or you might get kicked or bit. It is interesting that horses will tend to align themselves rear first when traveling with an open trailer, like a stock trailer. Some sort of instinct, where us humans, because we are more intelligent, tend to want to tie them in head first. Mark Skeels Helena Mt.
Re: Orphan Foals
This message is from: "jgayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In this case I doubt Beth's pessimism. You are describing my Charley, who just left this earth two months ago at twenty five, a sweetheart and my best friend. C. was born huge and dwarfed his follower mother. My old Arab gelding would let him play with him nipping legs all day. C. was difficult to lead, did exactly the same thing on the lunge of escaping, loved to nip anyone who was not looking and tried his best to take advantage of his great size. Many is the time I let him have it with the crop. He laughed! I was told this was not a woman's horse. Trainers were afraid of him and his size and he made fools of them in the early shows. I was raised very strictly as a child and believe me I was not easy on his bad behavior and he got his punishment. I think Charley's problem was he was overly bright and he thought himself an equal with his rider. He loved crowds and knew when they adored him. "Here comes Charley" "Yeah Charley!" He was so big he could stretch that long neck from his stall across the aisle to nip anyone going by. I was dressage and finally found him, did not start breaking him until seven, a male rider who handled him beautifully and they made great progress until Charley at age 14 and third level, winning, caught his leg under my arena door and popped a sesamoid. He had wanted to come home and would hide behind the barn when I got the trailer out. He mellowed as he grew more mature, was my best pal and family. So do not give up. The colt probably sees you as Mom and needs a good nip and eventually a shoe in the right place. I think, barring some genetic disorder, you will find him your smartest and most winning fellow. Jean Gayle Author 'The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 to 1949 Send: $20 to Three Horse's Press 7403 Blaine Rd Aberdeen, WA 98520
hide the kiddies !
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi List !Going out on a bit of a limb here, but I wanted to let any newbies to breeding know some of our thoughts on this.. In a message dated 4/20/2006 10:54:14 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > put the > mare across the fence from the stallion and when she goes in heat you'll > know, > < Quite true ! BUT, teasing across a fence is only as good as your > fencing. With our vinyl fencing with hot wire, it wouldnt work of course. > With > any wood fence, teasing mares and studs should be closely monitered IMHO. ( > Done in hand ) Stud quality metal pipe fencing is a bit safer, but again it > needs to be watched. They can hang up a leg and become injured pretty > quickly. > If there is striking ( something we do not tolerate from our stallions ) or even when the > mare does come into her heat cycle, boards, wire and even rails can be > snapped pretty easily. I have seen or heard about stallions going right over > the > top of fences to get to mares. Handlers can get hurt if Mr. Studly is not > trained to properly tease. and breed, no dangerous behavior > allowed when a human is on the other side of the lead line. Biteing, striking > and > otherwise rampaging behavior does not have to go along with breeding days. > Same with mares. It is a 2 person job, one to manage the stallion, one to > handle the mare. If a 3rd person can help with gates, viewing the mare's > physical > signs from behind, all the better. I watched a video once from Lindsey > Sweeny with Solar being managed quite nicely from his stall, to the teasing > shed, > ( with a solid wall to tease behind ) to completing the deed. I have thought > of doing a video myself, all the way from the teasing process, to folicle > checks at the vets, to washing the stallion and mares, to wrapping tails ect. > ect. My luck, it would be confiscated by WALLMART video police as a poor " B > " > rated porno flick.; / > +++ I don't agree with giving pills to bring a mare into heat unless > > it is a mare that just won't come into heat all the way. But if your > mare was bred once she probably doesn't have that problem. << Just does not work that way, sorry ! >> Using hormones along with folicle checks by your vet, to stimulate eggs is another good tool to assist regulating heat cycles. >> I don't like > > hobbles either, I think to much can go wrong, If there is chemistry > between the horses you won't have to worry about kicking and that sort > of thing too much, they will just automatically know what to do > > << Lots of things play into covering mares with live breedings. Even more > steps to get right when doing AI. " Chemistry " between equines means a > stallion with healthy testostrone and a mare who comes into a strong heat, > and is > in a a cooperative stage of her cycle. Sounds easy.isnt always ! Would love to hear other comments from other breeders on this HOT topic ! ( hey its springtime, right ? )Lisa
General on Selling Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are others on the List who have more experience that I do; my guess is that Carol Rivoire has sold more Fjords than anyone, but I will take a stab at this topics. I have found that the market for Fjords is geographically much larger than it is for other breeds of horses. It certainly is regional and most likely it is national. Some of my Fjord sales have been local but I have sold horses to homes in New York, Florida and California, too. I consider that fairly typical when I think of where we found our horses -- Ohio, New York, Oregon, Missouri and Canada. The location of your market does influence how you direct your advertising dollars -- I use print ads in the Herald and two local horse pubs, have a web site, and send periodic e-mail announcements out via Constant Contact. I use some of the horse sales websites if I have an older horse. I don't bother with the foals. I also network a lot. I can't stress how important it is to get to know and work with your other local Fjord owners and breeders. I agree that we are competitors, but it's very important to help each other. I primarily offer foals for sale, but like many breeders, I have plenty of queries for older, made horses. If I don't have what the buyer is looking for, I will refer them to other breeders or owners who might have a suitable Fjord. It's a 2-way street; I've also gotten buyers referred to me by other breeders. Collaborating is something I value. In Virginia, several of us owner/breeders, have banded together to advertise our horses. It actually saves us money to have one large ad listing our farms. In the last Fjord Herald (or at least the last one I saw), my article on the Virginia Fjord Foal Festival was published. Basically it was an open house to showcase Fjords and a number of breeders participated. As a group, we sold several horses through that open house. While I do believe that seeing and touching a Fjord really helps make a sale, I'm also the first to agree that many of my buyers are Fjord owners or persons who had had a prior experience with a Fjord. Partly this is due to the fact we primarily sell foals. I don't sell foals to inexperienced horse owners. Now if I had a field full of trained Fjords that any beginner could ride, well then I would have it made! Margaret A. Bogie Ironwood Farm Rixeyville, VA http://www.ironwood-farm.com ***Fjords for Sale: 2003 Gray and Brown Dun geldings, 2005 Red Dun Weanling Colt***
Pet of the Day
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] OK, everyone, go to this web site: _http://petoftheday.com/_ (http://petoftheday.com/) The pet of the day for 4/21/06 happens to be a Norwegian Fjord horse. I'm sure one of our members must be behind it. I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. - Douglas Adams
Re: teaching young Fjords to come from behind
This message is from: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Beaver Dam Farm wrote: Lori, I don't know why this bothers you so much. -- You tell me we should not use the word dressage. Why not? It's not a holy word! It's NOT?! Oh boy that challenges my world view :-) Kidding. Seriously though, Beth explained this more clearly when she differentiated between the word "dressage" (derived from the french verb dresser and all that stuff) and the equestrian discipline "Dressage" - comprising the systematic gymnastic development of the horse. Beth also did a good job of explaining the difference between the basic levels of Dressage (USDF intro, training, first), medium level (second and third), and then comes advanced and international levels (USDF fourth level leading into FEI: Prix St Georges, I-1, I-2, and the Olympic level of Grand Prix). Beth pointed out that most horses and most riders never get to medium level dressage let alone to advanced/international. The movements of passage and piaffe that Anne allowed Dagrun, Beth and I to have a little taste of with Wez are Grand Prix movements, only trained and shown at the current pinnacle of the Big-D Dressage development. Movements only mastered by a small number of horses (who certainly do not grow on trees, and their owners do NOT normally let "just anyone" ride them), and only experienced by a small number of (very lucky and very grateful) riders. So there we were, discussing the years of effort which go into learning big-D Dressage and you chime in equating THIS to what you do with your babies. That's what I firmly disagree with and find misleading and dangerous. The reason is, to quote Beth again, semantics is important when discussing horse training on a forum like this. We are here to share information, so suppose someone admires you Carol, reads what you wrote, and wants to emulate you. So there they are, out there with their babies, yearlings, whatever, trying to achieve the six levels of the Dressage training scale in hand. That is not, as Beth said, a pretty picture. Danger Will Robinson indeed. Please don't go there. Or suppose someone reads what you wrote, and interprets it because of the wording used, as: BDF is actually doing all this oh-so-impressive high-falooting Dressage training with their youngsters. Now that person feels inferior because all THEIR babies/younghorses are trained to do is walk happily and confidently around beside their handlers and deal with experiences with some degree of poise. That would be a shame if they felt that way, because in reality they would be right on course and should be pleased. That's why I feel it is so important to be accurate with the terminology used. Regards, Lori
Orphan Foals
This message is from: "Sue Clark-Sorger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I second or third or whatever this one. I have a 5 year old orphan gelding that I raised, I have worked and worked with him and he challenges me often. He will work well for days at a time and then he will run out on the lunge line and he will rear. I can't hold him when he runs out, I have tried a knotted halter a chain over under around his nose, I put the lunge line behind me and around under my butt and hold both ends in front off me and brace ready and once in a while I can hold him but mostly not. It is the rearing that scares me, I don't move as fast as I once did. Until recently he would bite me I haltered him and any other chance he got, he found out I could be the bitchy boss mare one day, and that stopped. Yes, I know I should part him but it is not his fault he was a orphan and why should I pass my problems on to someone else. His mom was the most wonderful horse that I have ever had the joy of owning. I had emailed Beth Beymer about him and have posted her response to me below. I think that your Kez situation, unfortunately, really comes from him having been raised an orphan and you being his surrogate mother. I think that, no matter what you do, he will always try to display his playful (and disrespectful) behavior towards you. You haven't done anything wrong. It seems, to me, that some geldings never seem to mature in a way that mares do (stallions go on to other jobs besides being playful) and have to dispense that playful energy in some way. It seems that he tends to direct that energy towards you. Sue and Kez and Heather in very dry New Mexico Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:31:19 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Orphan Foals This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Beth said, " Just ask anyone who has raised an orphan how difficult it can be to keep that foal from learning how to push its humans around." And I say, as the owner of an 8 year old orphan foal, AMEN! My poor mare misses her mother so much she nurses herself after you give her a treat. She can't really reach her own teats, but she lifts her hind leg, usually her left, reaches her head back there and sucks on her tongue, for about 4-5 minutes. It is harmless enough as far as I know, so I don't try to interrupt her. If she is tied to the trailer or getting on the trailer, etc., she isn't allowed to, of course. I was wondering if anyone has ever had a foal by such a mother? Would her mental imbalance make her reject a foal? Would she become obsessively attached to it forever? Just wondering, Valerie
