Re[2]: Competitor Conduct at Fjord Shows Evaluations
This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vivian-- Saturday, May 25, 2002, you wrote: The difficulty I see in regional Fjord shows is there is no Technical Delegate to help diffuse the competitors anger and if the TD perceives a real problem can then facilitate setting things straight... My comment on qualified judges is in no way meant to demean the NFHR list of judges it is just that in my opinion it takes a mighty amazing judge to be familiar with the NGB rules governing all the disciplines that take place at a breed show. I certainly agree with what you say, however I believe it would be just a hard to find TDs with the requisite breadth of knowledge as judges. And without an agreed set of rules to take as a starting point how can either judges/TDs or competitors really know what's expected in the ring? Just as an example, in a Fjord show several years ago the locally written rules for an obstacle driving class called for elimination for a break to canter, but didn't bother to define a break. As a result, the majority of competitors were eliminated. When I talked to the judge later he said he was aware of the ADS 3 stride definition of a break, and that only a time penalty was called for on the first three breaks, but he was stuck with the rules he had been given by the show committee. -- Steve McIlree -- Pferd Skipper -- Omaha, NE/Las Cruces, NM, USA If I be once on horse-back, I alight very unwillingly; for it is the seat I like best. --Michel Eyquem de Montaigne(1533-1592)
Re: Competitor Conduct at Fjord Shows Evaluations
This message is from: Vivian Creigh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve McIlree5/25/02 2:31 [EMAIL PROTECTED] If anyone is going to throw back the rhetoric about outside rules destroying the friendly family atmosphere of the shows, please explain exactly how standard, proven rules would do that. You are not going to get any argument from me, Steve. Rules prevail in every recognized competition and they are there to level the playing field for all so discrepencies do not or should not happen. The difficulty I see in regional Fjord shows is there is no Technical Delegate to help diffuse the competitors anger and if the TD perceives a real problem can then facilitate setting things straight. Because everyone at a regional Fjord show are friends or at least acquainted with one another it is difficult for the show committee members to remain neutral. Also often the members of the show committee are themselves showing which compromises any conflict of interest issues. Management should not compete especially if they have hired the judges. HUGE CONFLICT If a show publishes that the driving classes will be run according to ADS rules but there are show committee members that always drive without nosebands or cavessons on their driving bridles it is quite likely that this ADS rule will be ignored. If the judge judging the driving classes is not an ADS judge it is unlikely he/she will know that there is such a rule or if they do know that it is a rule and approach a show committee member about it is possible they will be told to ignore it because Fjord people routinely drive without nosebands. This scenario is pure conjecture. I am just trying to point out how these issues often play out. Rules for all but the Fun classes have already been worked out by the USA Eq, ADS, USDF etc. But saying you will run a show according to those rules and then having a judge and management that is unfamiliar with those rules defeats the purpose. Publishing that your show will be run by certain rules is a great start but unless you have an impartial, knowledgeable person (TD) to make sure that those rules are followed and a judging panel that is also familiar with the rules and general protocol you will not be able to effectively put those rules into effect. Failure to play by the rules will in some instances be grounds for elimination, but just try and tell someone at a local Fjord show that they have been elminated because their harness doesn't conform to ADS rules and believe me you'll have a fight on your hands. By the way only the judge can eliminate a competitor. There is absolutely no reason that the NFHR needs to reinvent the wheel by writing their own rules or even sanctioning regional Fjord shows. Some of the issues Brian referred to in his post would be covered under USAEq or ADS rules, but unless the show committee spends the money to hire qualified judges and a licensed TD the show committees should save money on ink and not bother to publish any affiliations. My above comment on qualified judges is in no way meant to demean the NFHR list of judges it is just that in my opinion it takes a mighty amazing judge to be familiar with the NGB rules governing all the disciplines that take place at a breed show. As for Brian's comment on profanity, throwing hayforks and the like that can be chalked up to poor social skills, nothing more. Unless the profanity was directed personally towards the judge there isn't much one can do about that type of behaviour. However, if there were a TD officiating he/she could take that person aside and try and calm things down a bit . I have always admired licensed TDs in Driving because they must wear so many hats and remain gracious and efficient at all times. How do they do that? This turned out to be too long and a bit redundant, sorry. Have a Happy Memorial Day weekend everyone. Vivian Creigh
Re: Competitor Conduct at Fjord Shows Evaluations
This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brian-- Thursday, May 23, 2002, you wrote: For some time now I have encouraged the NFHR to adopt a standard set of show rules for all shows they have sanctioned... Well, Mike points out that the NFHR doesn't sanction shows, but maybe it's time that some thought was given in that direction. It would be real nice to have one set of rules so people could go to any Fjord show and not run into any surprises. Of course, as Mike also pointed out the NFHR has ALREADY published a set of standard show rules. So what is the problem with the regional shows adopting them? For the most part, the Registry's rules follow those that have been proved workable by the AHSA and ADS. If the purpose of the regional clubs is to promote the Fjord Horse, one of the best things they can to is get members showing up at open horse shows with their Fjords. And learning the rules that the general horse community competes by at friendly local shows makes a lot of sense. So let me ask once more, why don't the regional groups just start using the NFHR rules? If anyone is going to throw back the rhetoric about outside rules destroying the friendly family atmosphere of the shows, please explain exactly how standard, proven rules would do that. -- Steve McIlree -- Pferd Skipper -- Omaha, NE/Las Cruces, NM, USA Horses carry the history of mankind on their backs. If you should find one is carrying you as well, acknowledge your good fortune and indeed your honor. --Lucinda Prior Palmer(b. 1953)
Re: Competitor Conduct
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear List from Brian Jensen; The digest article I sent appears to have been edited by someone or out in cyber space. Can someone let me know if they received the first article on the digest that I wrote or only Mike Mays answer? Brian, I received both your article AND Mike's answer. However, as on many people's email servers, the answer preceded the original article. My email comes sorted by date and time, with the most recent posts listed first - therefore, I must read the postings from bottom to top, rather than top to bottom, in order for them to make sense. Possibly other people have the same type of listing and just didn't 'turn the page' and get the original article as well. Mary = Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Competitor Conduct
This message is from: Mike May, Registrar NFHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 08:01 PM 5/22/2002 -0700, you wrote: This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear List from Brian Jensen; The digest article I sent appears to have been edited by someone or out in cyber space. Can someone let me know if they received the first article on the digest that I wrote or only Mike Mays answer? Brian Jensen Well I received it here Brian but I get the messages individually. Might have been a problem with the digest version. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Executive Director Registrar PO Box 685 Webster, NY 14580-0685 Voice 585-872-4114 FAX 585-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Competitor Conduct at Fjord Shows Evaluations
This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear List from Brian Jensen; After another E-Mail about show conduct by competitors I thought it imperative to write the list about these issues. As we conduct ourselves in life-there are standards and guidelines for conduct at shows and Evaluations. If my information is an indicator there is an increasing amount of improper, impolite, and disrespectful conduct by some competitors at our shows and Evaluations. This conduct- be it profanity in public; unfair gossip and criticism of fellow members or Show Committees or Judges is not acceptable under any circumstances. Conduct--as outlined in CEF Rules. All participants are obliged to conduct themselves in an orderly manner and in the best interest of the horse and show. Management, or the Show Committee shall bar violators from further participation for the remainder of the show. A report of continued violation or incident be forwarded to the designated authority for any disciplinary action deemed necessary. If a competitor acts in a manner contrary to the Show Rules, or in a manner deemed improper, unethical, dishonest, unsportsmanlike, or prejudicial to themselves, others, committee members, or well being of their animals; is not acceptable. Making remarks considered offensive, or with the intent to influence or cast aspersions on the character of the Judge or any other person at the show is not acceptable. Examples of infractions I am aware of are profanity in public. Throwing hay forks at other competitors , Deformation of the character of officials.Knowingly breaking show rules to suit oneself. For some time now I have encouraged the NFHR to adopt a standard set of show rules for all shows they have sanctioned and insured. In Canada our show insurance is void if the standard set of show rules have not been followed. It is unfortunate that I have to address these issues. Competitors naturally become very emotional and sometimes say or do things they would later regret. The present incidents now seem to have occurred sometime-somewhere in all Fjord shows, and does not seem to be diminishing . If you are unhappy with a situation at a show there is a protocol that is universal to all sanctioned events. The procedure for lodging protests and requesting appeals is directed to the show committee with a deposit of about 50.00.If the protest or appeal is upheld ones deposit is returned. An example of this protocol being used happened at Libby last fall. After a driving runaway in a class it was noticed some entrants were driving without nosebands which are ADS Rules regulation. Some entrants were removed from the class but others were allowed to continue without the proper driving equipment.This confusion could be totally eliminated with standard rules and guidelines. Sincerely--Brian Jensen Ursula Brian Jensen Trinity Fjords Box 1032 Lumby BC Canada V0E-2G0 http://okjunc.junction.net/~ujensen/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (250) 547-6303
Re: Competitor Conduct
This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brian-- Wednesday, May 22, 2002, you wrote: The digest article I sent appears to have been edited by someone or out in cyber space. Can someone let me know if they received the first article on the digest that I wrote or only Mike Mays answer? Brian Jensen You're right. The digest version of your message appears to have fallen into the bit bucket. It did get delivered to those subscribers who receive the individual format, however. Unfortunately, that only accounts for about 25% of the whole subscriber base. I'm going to resend it to the list, so that digest readers will get to have some input on this subject that I agree is of some importance. Sorry, but those of you who have seen Brian's message in the individual format will get it again; I have no other way to get it to the digest. -- Steve McIlree -- Pferd Skipper -- Omaha, NE/Las Cruces, NM, USA The air of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears. --Arabian proverb
RE: Competitor Conduct
This message is from: Skeels, Mark A (MED) [EMAIL PROTECTED] It got past my company's wall. Received it fine. Mark Skeels -Original Message- From: Ursula Jensen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 10:01 PM To: fjordlist Subject: Competitor Conduct This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear List from Brian Jensen; The digest article I sent appears to have been edited by someone or out in cyber space. Can someone let me know if they received the first article on the digest that I wrote or only Mike Mays answer? Brian Jensen Ursula Brian Jensen Trinity Fjords Box 1032 Lumby BC Canada V0E-2G0 http://okjunc.junction.net/~ujensen/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (250) 547-6303
Re: Competitor Conduct
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brian, I received the article OK, but i get individual messages...Maybe those that get the list in digest form had a problem. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, 85 degrees and sunny, and already fires getting started..one from a hot chainsaw. Can someone let me know if they received the first article on the digest that I wrote or only Mike Mays answer? Brian Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Competitor Conduct
This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear List from Brian Jensen; The digest article I sent appears to have been edited by someone or out in cyber space. Can someone let me know if they received the first article on the digest that I wrote or only Mike Mays answer? Brian Jensen Ursula Brian Jensen Trinity Fjords Box 1032 Lumby BC Canada V0E-2G0 http://okjunc.junction.net/~ujensen/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (250) 547-6303
Re: Competitor Conduct at Fjord Shows Evaluations
This message is from: Mike May, Registrar NFHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 07:38 PM 5/21/2002 -0700, you wrote: This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear List from Brian Jensen; For some time now I have encouraged the NFHR to adopt a standard set of show rules for all shows they have sanctioned and insured. In Canada our show insurance is void if the standard set of show rules have not been followed. Just to clarify this part a bit Brian. First of all the NFHR does NOT sanction or insure any horse shows. The NFHR only holds the Evaluations. Sometimes they are in conjunction with a horse show but they are separate events. The NFHR has published rules for horse shows but they are not binding are up to each group to use them or not. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Executive Director Registrar PO Box 685 Webster, NY 14580-0685 Voice 585-872-4114 FAX 585-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Competitor Conduct at Fjord Shows Evaluations
This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear List from Brian Jensen; After another E-Mail about show conduct by competitors I thought it imperative to write the list about these issues. As we conduct ourselves in life-there are standards and guidelines for conduct at shows and Evaluations. If my information is an indicator there is an increasing amount of improper, impolite, and disrespectful conduct by some competitors at our shows and Evaluations. This conduct- be it profanity in public; unfair gossip and criticism of fellow members or Show Committees or Judges is not acceptable under any circumstances. Conduct--as outlined in CEF Rules. All participants are obliged to conduct themselves in an orderly manner and in the best interest of the horse and show. Management, or the Show Committee shall bar violators from further participation for the remainder of the show. A report of continued violation or incident be forwarded to the designated authority for any disciplinary action deemed necessary. If a competitor acts in a manner contrary to the Show Rules, or in a manner deemed improper, unethical, dishonest, unsportsmanlike, or prejudicial to themselves, others, committee members, or well being of their animals; is not acceptable. Making remarks considered offensive, or with the intent to influence or cast aspersions on the character of the Judge or any other person at the show is not acceptable. Examples of infractions I am aware of are profanity in public. Throwing hay forks at other competitors , Deformation of the character of officials.Knowingly breaking show rules to suit oneself. For some time now I have encouraged the NFHR to adopt a standard set of show rules for all shows they have sanctioned and insured. In Canada our show insurance is void if the standard set of show rules have not been followed. It is unfortunate that I have to address these issues. Competitors naturally become very emotional and sometimes say or do things they would later regret. The present incidents now seem to have occurred sometime-somewhere in all Fjord shows, and does not seem to be diminishing . If you are unhappy with a situation at a show there is a protocol that is universal to all sanctioned events. The procedure for lodging protests and requesting appeals is directed to the show committee with a deposit of about 50.00.If the protest or appeal is upheld ones deposit is returned. An example of this protocol being used happened at Libby last fall. After a driving runaway in a class it was noticed some entrants were driving without nosebands which are ADS Rules regulation. Some entrants were removed from the class but others were allowed to continue without the proper driving equipment.This confusion could be totally eliminated with standard rules and guidelines. Sincerely--Brian Jensen Ursula Brian Jensen Trinity Fjords Box 1032 Lumby BC Canada V0E-2G0 http://okjunc.junction.net/~ujensen/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (250) 547-6303
