Re: longing
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Misha- Unfortunately there is no round pen at my stable (there may be in future, but I'm not holding my breath!). However I do "send them away" in the pasture for a bit of exercise, eat your heart out Monty Roberts! After this exercise they follow me and are docile, just like in MR's video. BTW, I saw Monty in San Francisco a few months ago, and was really impressed. His message of non-violence should ring true to all. I will check out the Parelli videos. Does he have a web site where I can order these? Yes, I also find longing dull for long periods. But, it's good focused exercise if not overdone. Brigid in CA
longing
This message is from: misha nogha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I often free longe my horses that are not in shape. Then if they are going to buck up and act silly there is no line to get tangled in. I also think it is a nice way to bond with new horses if you use something like Monty Roberts join up method. I think longing on a line for a long time is boring for the horse and it sure is for me. I usually never ask on the line to just go in a circle around me more than twice. if we are going to stay on the line longer I vary it by asking for sidepassing, go over obstacles, play a squeeze game between me and the fence. I don't know, try and make it interesting and a learning experience! Try to keep that mind active as well as the body! One thing that is really fun is to get that Seven Games video that Pat Parelli has out and try that stuff. Its a blast! Also, if you are going to lead your horse to get him in shape, try hill work. It's really good for both of you! Ha. Misha
RE: Longing
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Gail - yes, please elaborate - No dime store clickers in Germany and not sure what you mean. If I knew, I might have my mom bring a "clicker" over in September when she comes. My Fjord, Kai, also repsonds to stuff like "good Boy - suuper". Kristine > -Original Message- > From: GAIL RUSSELL [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 17:31 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Longing > > This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I have had similar problems longing. No where near figuring it all > out, but > working *without* longe line in a round pen or other enclosed space, > coupled > with clicker training to induce gait changes, might be a solution. > Alexandra Kurlanda does clicker training with her horses and has used > it to > actually improve her horse's gaits. The principle is BF Skinner's > behavioral psychology. Instead of rewarding by a release of pressure, > you > reward by giving a distinctive sound (people often use those little > "dime > store" frog clickers) which is *always* followed by a food reward. > Clicker > training is taking over the dog obedience world because it makes such > happy > performers. I've done a bit with Gunthar, no where near what I could > have > done. But he learns *very fast.* Took me 10 minutes to train him to > touch > the end of my whip - and he still remembers it months later with no > practice > in between. Alexandra talks about, among other things, a hard-to-shoe > horse > (read dangerous kicker) arriving at his stall door with his front foot > cranked up into position for trimming - just in case someone wanted to > trim > it. :) > > If there is interest I'll elaborate - not sure this is perfectly > appropriate > to a FJord list - except that clicker training works *very well* with > smart > inquisitive horses. > GAil > > At 04:58 PM 8/19/98 +0200, you wrote: > >This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >he, he...it´s so nice to see that other people too have problems with > >longing their fjords! Actually, longing is THE ONLY THING where Cider > has > >given me problems during his training! Everything else from being > tied up > >as a 5 months old to learning how to jump under rider this summer as > a 5 > >year old has worked like a charm, but longing...he just HATED it! He > would > >stop and try to come to me all the time and when I told him to keep > on > >moving he just stared at me with the are-you-NUTS?-look on his face, > then > >he pinned his ears back (that seldom happens, basically he´s a very > >cheerful personality) and continued on the circle, dragging his > hooves in > >the sand. > > > >Since he hated it so much, I actually stopped longing him and we > started to > >ride him instead. He liked that much more. But I thought that mabye I > >should make another try now when I´ve started to train dressage, it > would > >be good to be able to work him from the ground...mabye he will like > longing > >more now, one never knows. > > > >Regards > >Anneli > > > >At 02:33 1998-08-19 -0400, you wrote: > >>This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > >>Thanks Ann - for your note on Longing. I am always grateful to hear > that > >>other > >>people have experienced the same problems - I tend to think woe is > me, > >>I`m the > >>only one, my pony hates me etc., etc. > >>You mentioned different cultures - I have noted that people here in > >>Germany - horseowners > >>in particular - hardly ever admit that they have difficulties with > their > >>animals. > >>In the past when I have spoken to others about my pony`s temperment > on > >>the longeline > >>most people just look at me and go "oh. that should never happen. > don`t > >>let that happen." > >>And of course, I would just lve to scream !!! So, thanks for > your > >>honesty !! > >> > >>> -Original Message- > >>> From: Mark and Ann Restad [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 03:47 > >>> To: Fjordhorse List > >>> Subject: Longing > >>> > >>> This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> > >>> In response to Kristine Werner's experience longing
RE: Longing
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Anneli - yea ! another one who hates longing ! I have practiced this exercise twice just this week with Kai. To tell you the truth, he didn`t do too badly. At the walk he is fine - bored stiff of course and looking around for distractions - but fine nonetheless. At the trot he is usually also okay - I`ve noticed that he gets impatient when his head is pulled so I always try to give him little "half halts". I longe him in a pen made for that purpose - the stall owners don`t want to close it off (it is 1/4 open) because they say they`ve had problems with horses simply igoring the lines and breaking through them. Otherwise I would certainly "unleash" him. Kai has the most problems at the canter - which someone else mentioned just yesterday, I think. I am sure it has to do with stretching - and once he`s streched then it has to do with him wanting to "let it all hang out". As they say here in Germany - wenn schon, denn schon - which means something like - while I`m at it I may as well really go for it. Keep trying - take it slow. I noticed Kai was more patient this week because he realized that I wasn`t planning on longing him forever - just 10 or 15 minutes. The next time we longed, he was much better, thinking, I`ll just let her swing that rope, this will be over in no time ! > -Original Message- > From: GAIL RUSSELL [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 17:31 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Longing > > This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I have had similar problems longing. No where near figuring it all > out, but > working *without* longe line in a round pen or other enclosed space, > coupled > with clicker training to induce gait changes, might be a solution. > Alexandra Kurlanda does clicker training with her horses and has used > it to > actually improve her horse's gaits. The principle is BF Skinner's > behavioral psychology. Instead of rewarding by a release of pressure, > you > reward by giving a distinctive sound (people often use those little > "dime > store" frog clickers) which is *always* followed by a food reward. > Clicker > training is taking over the dog obedience world because it makes such > happy > performers. I've done a bit with Gunthar, no where near what I could > have > done. But he learns *very fast.* Took me 10 minutes to train him to > touch > the end of my whip - and he still remembers it months later with no > practice > in between. Alexandra talks about, among other things, a hard-to-shoe > horse > (read dangerous kicker) arriving at his stall door with his front foot > cranked up into position for trimming - just in case someone wanted to > trim > it. :) > > If there is interest I'll elaborate - not sure this is perfectly > appropriate > to a FJord list - except that clicker training works *very well* with > smart > inquisitive horses. > GAil > > At 04:58 PM 8/19/98 +0200, you wrote: > >This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >he, he...it´s so nice to see that other people too have problems with > >longing their fjords! Actually, longing is THE ONLY THING where Cider > has > >given me problems during his training! Everything else from being > tied up > >as a 5 months old to learning how to jump under rider this summer as > a 5 > >year old has worked like a charm, but longing...he just HATED it! He > would > >stop and try to come to me all the time and when I told him to keep > on > >moving he just stared at me with the are-you-NUTS?-look on his face, > then > >he pinned his ears back (that seldom happens, basically he´s a very > >cheerful personality) and continued on the circle, dragging his > hooves in > >the sand. > > > >Since he hated it so much, I actually stopped longing him and we > started to > >ride him instead. He liked that much more. But I thought that mabye I > >should make another try now when I´ve started to train dressage, it > would > >be good to be able to work him from the ground...mabye he will like > longing > >more now, one never knows. > > > >Regards > >Anneli > > > >At 02:33 1998-08-19 -0400, you wrote: > >>This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > >>Thanks Ann - for your note on Longing. I am always grateful to hear > that > >>other > >>people have experienced the same problems - I tend to think woe is > me, > >>I`m the > >>only one, my pony hates me etc., etc. > >>You m
Re: longing
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] When I began my search for information about Fjords and in my search to purchase a Fjord -over and over the reading material listed "wonderful temperment" as one of the main attributes to this breed. Aside from Fjords being beautiful, temperment was my main attraction to this breed. I agree the evaluation should take into consideration the manners and temperment of the horse. While breeding and handling both contribute to the temperment of a horse - prospective breeders and buyers should have knowledge of temperment - especially when it is such an advertised quality of the breed.
Re: longing
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 98-08-19 10:23:23 EDT, you write: << Most people at the evaluation were really upset at that a rude and poorly mannered stallion received a blue ribbon at the evaluation. Granted this stallion is beautiful to look at but a demon 'in hand'. People feared to be in the same ring with him and he truly was a danger to others. The evaluation criteria does not address temperament or manners and people are questioning the validity of that. The impression is that if the Fjords (as a breed) are animals with good dispositions and are marketed as such, then the Breed Evaluation Program should reflect this by not rewarding bad behavior. A case in point. If I'm an owner of a mare and am looking for a stallion, I would not be able to pick up on this trait by looking at his evaluation papers. >> Oh Ursula, I know EXACTLY what you mean. I was there (with Raymond, as you know) at the evaluation. For those of you who don't know us, Raymond is my ten year old son with autism. I switched to Fjords because the ones I have are a much better match/temperament for our situation than the Arabs, Quarter Horses, Thoroughbreds of my past. Anyway, I found myself body blocking Raymond in case this stallion of questionable character broke loose. He was NOT what I am looking for or admire in a Fjord. But, I came very close to breeding a mare to him. Saw a video of him that took my breath away, he's so well made, and moves like a dream. Luckily, we were planning to do AI and when I found out how expensive the vet bills are for AI changed plans. Bred my mare to Misha, who as you know is beautiful, talented and sweetfor a stallion . As a newcomer to the breed, if it weren't for the luck of fate, I would have bred to a horse that is beautiful to look at, conformationally correct, but could have ended up with a baby that may have had a wicked temper/temperment. This kind of horse does not fit into my world. So, longwinded though I am, I agree. I wish there were a value placed on temperment in the evaluations. Pamela
RE: Longing
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have had similar problems longing. No where near figuring it all out, but working *without* longe line in a round pen or other enclosed space, coupled with clicker training to induce gait changes, might be a solution. Alexandra Kurlanda does clicker training with her horses and has used it to actually improve her horse's gaits. The principle is BF Skinner's behavioral psychology. Instead of rewarding by a release of pressure, you reward by giving a distinctive sound (people often use those little "dime store" frog clickers) which is *always* followed by a food reward. Clicker training is taking over the dog obedience world because it makes such happy performers. I've done a bit with Gunthar, no where near what I could have done. But he learns *very fast.* Took me 10 minutes to train him to touch the end of my whip - and he still remembers it months later with no practice in between. Alexandra talks about, among other things, a hard-to-shoe horse (read dangerous kicker) arriving at his stall door with his front foot cranked up into position for trimming - just in case someone wanted to trim it. :) If there is interest I'll elaborate - not sure this is perfectly appropriate to a FJord list - except that clicker training works *very well* with smart inquisitive horses. GAil At 04:58 PM 8/19/98 +0200, you wrote: >This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >he, he...it´s so nice to see that other people too have problems with >longing their fjords! Actually, longing is THE ONLY THING where Cider has >given me problems during his training! Everything else from being tied up >as a 5 months old to learning how to jump under rider this summer as a 5 >year old has worked like a charm, but longing...he just HATED it! He would >stop and try to come to me all the time and when I told him to keep on >moving he just stared at me with the are-you-NUTS?-look on his face, then >he pinned his ears back (that seldom happens, basically he´s a very >cheerful personality) and continued on the circle, dragging his hooves in >the sand. > >Since he hated it so much, I actually stopped longing him and we started to >ride him instead. He liked that much more. But I thought that mabye I >should make another try now when I´ve started to train dressage, it would >be good to be able to work him from the ground...mabye he will like longing >more now, one never knows. > >Regards >Anneli > >At 02:33 1998-08-19 -0400, you wrote: >>This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >>Thanks Ann - for your note on Longing. I am always grateful to hear that >>other >>people have experienced the same problems - I tend to think woe is me, >>I`m the >>only one, my pony hates me etc., etc. >>You mentioned different cultures - I have noted that people here in >>Germany - horseowners >>in particular - hardly ever admit that they have difficulties with their >>animals. >>In the past when I have spoken to others about my pony`s temperment on >>the longeline >>most people just look at me and go "oh. that should never happen. don`t >>let that happen." >>And of course, I would just loooove to scream !!! So, thanks for your >>honesty !! >> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: Mark and Ann Restad [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 03:47 >>> To: Fjordhorse List >>> Subject:Longing >>> >>> This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> In response to Kristine Werner's experience longing her horse, I had >>> the >>> same problem when working with Dro/y this winter. We had a lot of >>> snow >>> and I was longing him in the only open area, which was not in any >>> enclosure. he also hated it and would buck and occasionally "make a >>> break for it" and get away. I got the impression that it is way too >>> boring for him- he loves to get out and see things. Anyone's comments >>> >>> would be appreciated but I wont be able to answer for a week as I am >>> heading to Nancy's tonight to look at a mare and spend a week. >>> One note in response to the recent discussion: we Americans especially >>> >>> have to be careful not to be ethnocentric and remember that other >>> people >>> live with many different circumstances in their lives that we >>> ourselves >>> have not experienced. One shouldn't look at one small point in a >>> culture and pass judgement without any more information than that one >>> fact. >>> thanks >>> Ann >> >> > > > Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Longing
This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> he, he...it´s so nice to see that other people too have problems with longing their fjords! Actually, longing is THE ONLY THING where Cider has given me problems during his training! Everything else from being tied up as a 5 months old to learning how to jump under rider this summer as a 5 year old has worked like a charm, but longing...he just HATED it! He would stop and try to come to me all the time and when I told him to keep on moving he just stared at me with the are-you-NUTS?-look on his face, then he pinned his ears back (that seldom happens, basically he´s a very cheerful personality) and continued on the circle, dragging his hooves in the sand. Since he hated it so much, I actually stopped longing him and we started to ride him instead. He liked that much more. But I thought that mabye I should make another try now when I´ve started to train dressage, it would be good to be able to work him from the ground...mabye he will like longing more now, one never knows. Regards Anneli At 02:33 1998-08-19 -0400, you wrote: >This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Thanks Ann - for your note on Longing. I am always grateful to hear that >other >people have experienced the same problems - I tend to think woe is me, >I`m the >only one, my pony hates me etc., etc. >You mentioned different cultures - I have noted that people here in >Germany - horseowners >in particular - hardly ever admit that they have difficulties with their >animals. >In the past when I have spoken to others about my pony`s temperment on >the longeline >most people just look at me and go "oh. that should never happen. don`t >let that happen." >And of course, I would just lve to scream !!! So, thanks for your >honesty !! > >> -Original Message- >> From:Mark and Ann Restad [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent:Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 03:47 >> To: Fjordhorse List >> Subject: Longing >> >> This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> In response to Kristine Werner's experience longing her horse, I had >> the >> same problem when working with Dro/y this winter. We had a lot of >> snow >> and I was longing him in the only open area, which was not in any >> enclosure. he also hated it and would buck and occasionally "make a >> break for it" and get away. I got the impression that it is way too >> boring for him- he loves to get out and see things. Anyone's comments >> >> would be appreciated but I wont be able to answer for a week as I am >> heading to Nancy's tonight to look at a mare and spend a week. >> One note in response to the recent discussion: we Americans especially >> >> have to be careful not to be ethnocentric and remember that other >> people >> live with many different circumstances in their lives that we >> ourselves >> have not experienced. One shouldn't look at one small point in a >> culture and pass judgement without any more information than that one >> fact. >> thanks >> Ann > >
longing
This message is from: Ursula Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Interesting that the topic of discussion should be longing just when I've started to prepare my young stallion Raynor for a longing class for the Libby show. He hates it, and is doing his best to make the excercise a bit interesting for himself. Every day he tries something new. Yesterday he decided a 'hippedy hop' at the start of the trot would be an interesting addition. If he keeps it up I think I'll sew him a set of long ears and enter him in the costume class instead. I know he knows his commands and can execute them at will but it seems he needs to push my level of tolerance by 'doing his own thing'. On a more serious note, I've been wanting to bring up a topic for discussion that has surfaced since the Oregon evaluation. Most people at the evaluation were really upset at that a rude and poorly mannered stallion received a blue ribbon at the evaluation. Granted this stallion is beautiful to look at but a demon 'in hand'. People feared to be in the same ring with him and he truly was a danger to others. The evaluation criteria does not address temperament or manners and people are questioning the validity of that. The impression is that if the Fjords (as a breed) are animals with good dispositions and are marketed as such, then the Breed Evaluation Program should reflect this by not rewarding bad behavior. A case in point. If I'm an owner of a mare and am looking for a stallion, I would not be able to pick up on this trait by looking at his evaluation papers. Some may say that behavior is not an inherent but a learned trait.possibly poor or inconsistent handling. I guess that's open for discussion too. Letters have been written and sent to the Evaluation committee and this topic will be addressed in the near future. It would be a good excercise here on the list to bring out some serious discussion. I hope people out here in the west a preparing for the Libby Showonly a few weeks away. take care Ursula |---| | Ursula & Brian Jensen from Trinity Fjords | | E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Longing
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks Ann - for your note on Longing. I am always grateful to hear that other people have experienced the same problems - I tend to think woe is me, I`m the only one, my pony hates me etc., etc. You mentioned different cultures - I have noted that people here in Germany - horseowners in particular - hardly ever admit that they have difficulties with their animals. In the past when I have spoken to others about my pony`s temperment on the longeline most people just look at me and go "oh. that should never happen. don`t let that happen." And of course, I would just lve to scream !!! So, thanks for your honesty !! > -Original Message- > From: Mark and Ann Restad [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 03:47 > To: Fjordhorse List > Subject: Longing > > This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > In response to Kristine Werner's experience longing her horse, I had > the > same problem when working with Dro/y this winter. We had a lot of > snow > and I was longing him in the only open area, which was not in any > enclosure. he also hated it and would buck and occasionally "make a > break for it" and get away. I got the impression that it is way too > boring for him- he loves to get out and see things. Anyone's comments > > would be appreciated but I wont be able to answer for a week as I am > heading to Nancy's tonight to look at a mare and spend a week. > One note in response to the recent discussion: we Americans especially > > have to be careful not to be ethnocentric and remember that other > people > live with many different circumstances in their lives that we > ourselves > have not experienced. One shouldn't look at one small point in a > culture and pass judgement without any more information than that one > fact. > thanks > Ann
RE: Longing...
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Oops ! Generally speaking, that is ! > -Original Message- > From: Ingrid Ivic [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 04:07 > To: Fjordhorse List > Subject: Longing... > > This message is from: Ingrid Ivic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hello Kristine and welcome! > > > > Compared to Hannoveraners and > > so on Kai is a real terror on the longe. > > > Oh boy! You've never met the Hannoverian I owned! :o) Ingrid
Longing
This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In response to Kristine Werner's experience longing her horse, I had the same problem when working with Dro/y this winter. We had a lot of snow and I was longing him in the only open area, which was not in any enclosure. he also hated it and would buck and occasionally "make a break for it" and get away. I got the impression that it is way too boring for him- he loves to get out and see things. Anyone's comments would be appreciated but I wont be able to answer for a week as I am heading to Nancy's tonight to look at a mare and spend a week. One note in response to the recent discussion: we Americans especially have to be careful not to be ethnocentric and remember that other people live with many different circumstances in their lives that we ourselves have not experienced. One shouldn't look at one small point in a culture and pass judgement without any more information than that one fact. thanks Ann
Longing...
This message is from: Ingrid Ivic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello Kristine and welcome! > Compared to Hannoveraners and > so on Kai is a real terror on the longe. > Oh boy! You've never met the Hannoverian I owned! :o) Ingrid
