Re: Rosendalsborken
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve, Your image of Rosendalsborken looks very much like the stallion I saw from Germany last year, "Ohlsen," who by the way was very good at dressage Elaine Olsen
Rosendalsborken
This message is from: Steve McIlree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The recent discussions of Rosendalsborken bring to mind similar discussions on Morgan lists. The AMHA has published modern pictures of the ideal Morgan stallion and mare, but they are based on woodcuts of historic horses. So, there are those who argue that even in the modern pictures there may be some exaggeration because of the 19th century basis. Now, one feature that engenders a great deal of discussion among Morgan folks, I see shared in the classic picture of Rosendalsborken. That feature is the angle of the shoulder and the way that the neck is set on the body. Morgan people who have horses with straighter shoulders argue that the laid back angle and upright neck are faults of the woodcuts. But you only need to look in the Morgan magazines to see many living examples of beautifully sloping shoulders with upright necks. To take this line of thought further, both the old Morgan and the Fjord developed as "do anything" all-purpose breeds. One fellow in the Morgan camp who is an engineer has done an in-depth analysis of the structure of the horses illustrated in the old woodcuts, and claims that the angle of the shoulder is very important to the versatility of the breed. My point in all this discussion is that I find myself wondering where Rosendalsborken's shoulder and neck are in the modern Fjord? Is this something that has been lost, or have I just not seen the right horses? Is the sloping shoulder and upright neck a desirable feature or not? What effects would Rosendalsborken's angle of shoulder and set of neck have on movement? I've been pondering these questions since last year's Evaluation seminar in Galena, and would like to hear what input others might have. BTW, I chose the classic cut of Rosendalsborken to highlight the header on every page of the list Web site. http://members.home.net/smcilree/ -- Steve McIlree -- Pferd & Skipper -- Omaha, Nebraska, USA Noblest of the train that wait on man, the flight-performing horse. --William Cowper(1731-1800)
Re: Picture of Rosendalsborken
This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 08:36 AM 1/9/00 -0500, you wrote: This message is from: "Rebecca Mayer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mike, There is a copy in Bob van Bon's book and that is available on the Dutch website Fjordstudbook.com, e mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have Bob's book. Thanks Becky. I just tried scanning the picture and it doesn't scan well at all. I won't bother to put it up. It is a small B&W picture and it really isn't very good when scanned. Sorry. Mike
Re: Picture of Rosendalsborken
This message is from: "Rebecca Mayer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mike, There is a copy in Bob van Bon's book and that is available on the Dutch website Fjordstudbook.com, e mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Becky>
Re: Picture of Rosendalsborken
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 07:26 PM 1/8/00 -0800, you wrote: If any of you have the book "Fjordhesten - Menneskevennen" (Fjord horse - Friend of man), there is a picture - which looks to me like an actual photograph - on page 140. There is another picture - artist's rendition - of him on page 158 and in that picture he looks like a bay, with an eye that makes him look like a Merry-Go-Round horse. That is not a flattering picture. The Photo on page 140 looks better, He looks like a dark colored horse, and shows no white in his tail and very dark socks up over the knee. Judging by the handler standing behind him, he appears to be on the small side, probably no more than 14HH. I wish more of you could see this picture, because it is the only photograph I have seen of him. Maybe someone could scan it and set it up on the NFHR page (something more to do, Mike). I would be glad to scan it and post it on the web site but I don't have that book I am afraid. I have the one titled "Fjordhesten" by A.M Bakken. I think the one you are talking about is the newer one. How can I get a copy of it? Any idea? Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Rosendalsborken
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 06:07 PM 1/8/00 +0800, you wrote: This message is from: "Sarah Vogeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Being new to this breed and still learning what the true "type" really looks like, I would like to see the photo(s) of this Fjord as well. Please let me know if there are websites that might lead me in their direction. Yes try this one: http://www.multinett.no/ingvild/fjord.html Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Rosendalsborken
This message is from: "Meredith Sessoms" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >This message is from: "Sarah Vogeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Being new to this breed and still learning what the true "type" really >looks like, I would like to see the photo(s) of this Fjord as well. Please let >me know if there are websites that might lead me in their direction. You can see the print of Rosendalsborken on Invild Nygaard Sveen's "The Fjordhorse Pages" at: http://www.multinett.no/ingvild/fjord.html In B.J. van Bon's book "Van "Vestlandhest" tot "Fjordenpaard" there is a picture of the print on page 4 and a cropped photo on page 11. Since the photo is cropped along the image of the horse there is no way for me to tell how good the person who cropped it was at keeping true to the image. This print obviously comes from the photo and is not romanticized very much at all. The photo shows him standing with his shoulder away and uphill which distorts him a little and makes him look like he has an uphill build. The only difference I see is the print artist added a little chest since it is hidden or cropped in the photo. It looks like Rosendalsborken had a lovely face. >>><<< Meredith Sessoms >>><<< Soddy-Daisy. Tennessee. USA >>><<< Dorina & NFR Aagot
Re: Rosendalsborken, Fjord type, movement
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Julie, your post was really informative. In fact, I want to thank everyone that has engaged in this discussion of type and movement because it is so educational. Without belaboring this point, I am still curious to see why a discussion of dressage with the Fjord automatically makes it seem like we would somehow have to change the breed standard to achieve this. When I was looking for a new Fjord, I spoke with the Fjord Association in Germany to get the names of breeders that might have dressage prospects.(Steffen Peters suggested this to me, a member of our last Olympic Dressage Team). The German Assoc. gave me several names right away. He didn't say, "oh, that's not to Standard," or "are you crazy?" In fact, the breeder's brochure showed photos and boasted of their stallion's many wins in the dressage ring. To me dressage is not exaggerated movement. That's more like a gaited Saddlebred, Hackney or an Icelandic in a tolt. Dressage movement to me is free flowing, long strides, relaxed and forward, something I think the Fjord can truly do. Thanks again and good luck with your horses in whatever you do. Elaine Olsen
Rosendalsborken, Fjord type, movement
This message is from: "Julie Will" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Rosendalsborken is used by Norway as a "symbol" of the breed, and is NOT the illustration of their breed standard. In fact, to date, there is not an illustration of the Norwegian Standard. The Fjord breed there, as here, has individuals of varied size and shape (lighter to heavier), and Norway seems to be maintaining this variety. In the stallions being licensed for breeding, there is a pretty good variation in size, would you agree, Anne, Brian, Ursula? But as others have been spelling out, TYPE, as the Norwegians hold it, does not refer to size, (drafty or lighter) but to other characteristics of the Fjord. Movement is very important to the Norwegian eye, but EXTRAVAGANT movement is not what they are breeding for. I knowwhat exactly is considered "extravagant"? Perhaps movement that wastes effort? That is fancy? Rather than free flowing, smooth, cadanced, ground covering? Don't forget that in Norway's stallion testing program, the horse must do speed trotting (as a 3 year old) and as a 5 year old, a dressage-type riding test as well as a draft test that includes pulling weight and going up and down a steep grade. Also free jumping. Activities that call for different strengths in one versitile horse!
Re: Rosendalsborken
This message is from: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From: "Bushnell's" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm wondering if anyone else has ever thought that the popular >rendering of Rosendalsborken has a definite artistic interpretation? You know Ruthie, you may not be too far off on this. It looks like a wood engraving, and the illustrators at this time did take some liberties,idealising the image to suit the tastes of the day : big eyes, small ears, large, flaring nostrils...sound familiar? __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Rosendalsborken
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Didn't we have a long discussion about Rosendalsborken last year, concerning whether he represented the ideal type, etc. or was just a popular illustration of a Fjord? Too bad we don't have archives from back then. I'll have to sort through my saved Fjordhorse e-mail and see if I can find it. Jean in Fairganks, Alaska, still a balmy Zero degrees (I should be out there shoveling frozen apples) At 02:55 PM 1/8/2000 -0700, you wrote: >This message is from: "Bushnell's" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Speaking of... > >I'm wondering if anyone else has ever thought that the popular rendering of >Rosendalsborken has a definite artistic interpretation? A stretch in other >words. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Picture of Rosendalsborken
This message is from: Jon & Mary Ofjord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> If any of you have the book "Fjordhesten - Menneskevennen" (Fjord horse - Friend of man), there is a picture - which looks to me like an actual photograph - on page 140. There is another picture - artist's rendition - of him on page 158 and in that picture he looks like a bay, with an eye that makes him look like a Merry-Go-Round horse. That is not a flattering picture. The Photo on page 140 looks better, He looks like a dark colored horse, and shows no white in his tail and very dark socks up over the knee. Judging by the handler standing behind him, he appears to be on the small side, probably no more than 14HH. I wish more of you could see this picture, because it is the only photograph I have seen of him. Maybe someone could scan it and set it up on the NFHR page (something more to do, Mike). As far as Fjords bucking.well, I wouldn't want to put a leg up on any one of ours when they come snorting and running up from the pasture! I had also heard the term "Sunfishing" meant the horse's hind legs went up so far that the sun touched his belly - hence the term sun-fishing, a really high buck. Hopefully, I'll never have to ride one out! I can't even stay on the "sofa-style" buck. And someone said."Sit deep in the seat, don't have a death grip on the reins. etc,etc" Ya, I'll have a heck of a time remembering all that while I'm trying to keep myself centered between the horse and the ground! Ha! Mary Ofjord North Coast Fjords in snowy northern Minnesota
Rosendalsborken
This message is from: "Sarah Vogeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Being new to this breed and still learning what the true "type" really looks like, I would like to see the photo(s) of this Fjord as well. Please let me know if there are websites that might lead me in their direction. Thanks, _ Sarah Vogeley New Forest Farm Charlottesville, VA
Rosendalsborken
This message is from: "Bushnell's" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Speaking of... I'm wondering if anyone else has ever thought that the popular rendering of Rosendalsborken has a definite artistic interpretation? A stretch in other words. I use the etching for my screen wallpaper and love this illustration but can't help but think that somehow the head looks too small for the butt and the stance is awkward. (hips too high?) It strikes me like two different Fjord pictures were cut in half at the girth and rejoined. The front shoulders are straight on but the hips are turned a bit. (I just held it up to a mirror). I hope this isn't a kick in the sacred cow kind of subject but my curiosity got the best of me on this one. When you're talking about him as a standard are you using this etching? Is there another illustration of him that this is based on? I would like to know more about this illustration. Ruthie, NW MT
Re: Rosendalsborken story
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello All, from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - Catherine & Rune Lassessen - Thanks so much for the Rosendalsborken story. It was wonderfully interesting! I keep thinking about that stallion being tossed around in a North Sea gale for seven days, on his way to a Stallion Show in Germany, where at twenty years of age, he "blew them all away." I loved the part where they noted his gorgeous head, because a beautiful head is so necessary to a really good Fjordhorse. We have an immence and wonderful colored print of Rosendalsborken hanging over our fireplace. It's a side view with the head turned slightly toward the viewer, and the sight of that sculpted head with the huge, dark eyes, transfixes everyone who sees it. But Rosendalsborken was not just a pretty face. The body is of an athlete. You can see spirit and power and ability in that outline. And the legs are hard, dry, and clean. --- In our colored print, Rosendalsborken is a brown dun with very dark leg markings, and his mane is dark on the outside. That might have been artistic license. I've always loved that print since I first saw it in Holland almost twenty years ago. I was looking for horses at an ancient farm, and had been invited in for coffee. The print was on the wall, and I admired it. The old farmer said his daughter had one in her bedroom, and she would give it to me. I was overwhelmed. It's a beautiful, artistic print, a magnificent depiction of a long ago stallion, an idealisation of the breed. Although I've read (had translated) what Van Bon said about Rosendalsborken, I never really thought of him as a real horse, probably because there are no photographs, just this drawing.But now, thanks to Caterine and Rune's description of Rosendalsborken "kicking all the other stallions away" at the German Stallion Show, the horse has come alive for me. What a treat! Thanks! Best Regards, Carol Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf
Re: Rosendalsborken, etc.
This message is from: "Jon A. Ofjord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In this issue: > From my questions to Fjord Horse International in Norway, I received the explanation that the Norwegians used the image of Rosendalsborken because of his historical importance, not because he is a representative of perfect conformation or the ideal fjord. To see more about the history,see the Fjordhorse page at http://home.sol.no/~snygaard/fjord.html . Ingvild Nygaard has some very good historical information and the largest collection of Fjord pictures I have ever seen. A very nice page!
Re: Rosendalsborken
This message is from: "briar hill farm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- > From: fjordhorse-digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: fjordhorse-digest V98 #169 > Date: Friday, September 11, 1998 6:00 AM > > > fjordhorse-digest Friday, September 11 1998 Volume 98 : Number 169 > > > > In this issue: > From my questions to Fjord Horse International in Norway, I received the explanation that the Norwegians used the image of Rosendalsborken because of his historical importance, not because he is a representative of perfect conformation or the ideal fjord. To see more about the history,see the Fjordhorse page at http://home.sol.no/~snygaard/fjord.html . > The drawing that Bob Van Bon is refering to is of Rosendalsborken I 08. It > is used as the "symbol" of the Fjord horse in Norway and many other > countries and will appear on the cover of the NFHR standard as well. If > anyone is not familier with it, email me privately and I can email the > image to you. I have heard from one source that at least in Norway, it is > a "symbol" only, and not necessarily the "ideal" to strive for. Does > anyone else have any information about this? Julie @ Old Hickory Farm. > > -- > * >
