Re: wormers
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/31/04 11:24:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Answering Laurie's question. there sure is, Called" Herbal Tonic", by > Dynamite , you can go to www.dynamiteonline.com look in horse products.. > I use it every two months on my dogs, cats, horses. I have a 22 year old > Aussie[ yup! 22,],, hard to believe. Never been vaccinated. > > There are only a few wormers that will kill the tapeworm. One is > Equimax, I use this one when I have to,,I too,, try not to use a product > with ivermectin in it. I do NOT use any product by FORT DODGE !!! > thanks, jerry. i have to agree on the fort dodge statement. and your dog's lifespan is awesome. i am not big on vaccinating either (please, don't flame me).i will check into the products you suggested. laurie central minnesota
Re: wormers
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/31/04 11:24:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > When his worm load is under control > that is the time to switch to herbal wormers. The herbals do a better > job of discouraging worms as opposed to eradicating them. > thanks, tamara. that seems to make more sense than just filling him up on chemicals all the time laurie central minnesota
Wormers
This message is from: "Peter Randall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I cannot speak for horses, as we have never used anything but synthetic wormers on them. However, when I was younger and living in B.C. I nursed back to health an abandoned and near dead Doberman that I named Joker. He was full of worms and someone told me to use tobacco. I had no money really and since my dad was an Alcoholic Rehabilitation Councilor and we lived on a rehab farm...I had plenty of access to free tobacco. The tobacco added into his dog food every night worked like a miracle cure and was one of the leading things that brought him back to the picture of health. W Peter Randall Randall Farms [demime 0.99c.8 removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of W. Peter Randall PM CHRP.vcf]
Re: non synthetic de-wormers
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 2/4/2003 6:45:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > 1 tsp. of garlic added to grain for the > days from when the New Moon begins to when the Full Moon appears has worked > well for my horses and dogs. I know you guys think I'm a lunatic but I'm a > happy, healthy one!!! I'm sure you didn't even notice the double meaning here. Luna-tic? Moon? ;-D I try to stay in touch with the moon and other cycles. Every year I hear people say, "ooh, my horse is shedding early this year, it's not even warm (or cold, depending on time of year) yet!" I respond, "Solstice!" My boys blow their coats religiously (another double meaning!) starting the following day. Brigid Wasson SF Bay Area, CA http://www.ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html";>Our Fjords http://www.ourfjords.freeservers.com/fw/Fjordings_Wesx.html";>Fjordings West
non synthetic de-wormers
This message is from: "fjordcountry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sue, A quick two cents worth, I agree with all those who say tobacco is not the way to go. Poison is poison. 1 tsp. of garlic added to grain for the days from when the New Moon begins to when the Full Moon appears has worked well for my horses and dogs. I know you guys think I'm a lunatic but I'm a happy, healthy one!!! If you want any other ideas let me know. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: non-synthetic wormers
This message is from: Kathleen Spiegel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> SAFreivald wrote: > This message is from: "SAFreivald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > An old time harness racer that I knew fed his horses and ponies cigarette > tobacco routinely. The horses loved it and he swore that it took care of > any/all worms/intestinal parasites. Anybody have any specifics? Sue > Freivald. The active ingredient is nicotine-it is also used an insecticide in gardens. Pretty hard to dose and by no means as safe as the commercial wormers-there you can have a 10x overdose and probably not do anything-here(using nicotine) an overdose can be fatal. Acute nicotine poisoning is a problem with children who get into ashtrays or cigarets. Kathy Spiegel Idaho State University
Re: non-synthetic wormers
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tobacco can be used as a pesticide. I know people that grind up chewing tobacco, mix it with water and spray it on their garden plants. I wouldn't count on it to kill intestinal parasites though. The amount of nicotine needed to kill these parasites would cause bad side affect with your horse. Steve White, DVM Sport Horse Vet. Service Gretna, NE A strange stillness dwells in the eye of the horse, a composure that appears to regard the world from a measured distance... It is a gaze from the depths of a dream... - Hans-Heinrich Isenbart
non-synthetic wormers
This message is from: "SAFreivald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> An old time harness racer that I knew fed his horses and ponies cigarette tobacco routinely. The horses loved it and he swore that it took care of any/all worms/intestinal parasites. Anybody have any specifics? Sue Freivald.
Re: wormers/vaccines response
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jon, Thank you. I appologize that I haven't been more available lately. The West Nile outbreak kept me very busy. Then I moved into a new clinic in December, so I've been busy getting that operating. I'll try to keep up with the list now. Steve Steve White, DVM Sport Horse Vet. Service Gretna, NE A strange stillness dwells in the eye of the horse, a composure that appears to regard the world from a measured distance... It is a gaze from the depths of a dream... - Hans-Heinrich Isenbart
Re: wormers/vaccines response
This message is from: "Jon A. Ofjord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Steve, I know I speak for the list in saying "thank you" for all the free veterinary advise. We really appreciate the time you take from your busy practice and your horses and family to participate on the list. Jon
Re: wormers/vaccines response
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kathi, I think you took my response a little too personal. I never said you neglected your horses. I started out by saying I agree with your hoof management. You sound like a person who does care for their horses and tries to research what is best for them. I just had a problem with the term "chemical". The active ingredient in the Strongid wormers is used in people as well, even small children. I would think that if it were mild enough for a child it would be safe for a large horse. I'm interested to know what is the active ingredient in your wormers. Have you had fecal exams done on your horses after you have treated them with this wormer? As for Cushing's, the reason for some vets saying it doesn't exist is because in a horse Cushing's is not exactly the same as the true Cushing's we see in people and dogs. We don't have the exact cause and treatments worked out yet. I have been an equine vet for over 10yrs now and can say that I have never had a horse founder from being vaccinated. I think the West Nile outbreak was a good example of what vaccines can do to help horses. Steve Steve White, DVM Sport Horse Vet. Service Gretna, NE A strange stillness dwells in the eye of the horse, a composure that appears to regard the world from a measured distance... It is a gaze from the depths of a dream... - Hans-Heinrich Isenbart
wormers/vaccines response
This message is from: "fjordcountry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> May I begin by saying that I never said don't de-worm your horse. Mine are on a regular program but using natural de-wormers. I choose not to vaccinate because I do believe there is allot of harm from vaccines. As an example, I have worked on "many" horses and ponies that had a bad reaction to vaccinations that ultimately caused mild to severe laminitis. It was not one or two cases but many I saw over the years in many breeds of horses and ponies. I use supplements, therapeutic grade essential oils, non processed feeds, organically grown hay as well as other means of health care. This by no means makes me a third world, don't give a bleep about my horses, ignoramus. And it certainly doesn't make me an expert on anything either, I do choose to look into things before pumping myself or my beloved animals full of anything (read the labels, what is all that stuff?). Also, I am very pro veterinarian for making diagnoses and treating at times with medicines, having worked closely with many knowledgeable ones. I never said I knew everything about cushings, only that there seems to be such an increase in the disease as many vets are calling it. I have heard other reports from vets that say there is no such disease in horses. You guys fight it out, I'm just saying that by cleansing the system of chemicals absorbed from the environment, as well as all the "junk" I once put on and in my self and my animals and then supporting the immune system I have very healthy, hardy horses and my husband likes me allot better too!! Thank God for diversity and to each his "happy own". Rock'n Kathip.s. check out the Libby results from 2002 and you'll see my fjord can't be too sickly and neglected, ha ha!
Re: Wormers
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > OK Dr. Steve, does this sound reasonable? > Jean, I couldn't have said it better myself. Good job. One thing I might add. Sue, you said you were going to worm again in 3 months. Maybe you should go every 6 weeks. Or if you have a high parasite load on your farm you might try Strongid-C (daily). There is nothing wrong with bringing in an occassional stool sample to your vet to see how your program is going. Steve Steve and Amy White Prairieholm Farm Waterloo, Nebraska
Re: Wormers
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 12:03 AM 3/24/2001 -0400, you wrote: >This message is from: "Sue Harrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Hi everyone...I was to a meeting with some horse people tonight discussing >an up and coming 100 mile trail ride. One of the men there breeds "Welsh >Cobs" He had a filly colic this winter. They did a stool sample and found >it full of worms. He had wormed a month or so before that with Ivermectin. >We had also wormed Storm before he coliced in November. He too had worms in >a stool sample. What is going on here? I just read this on the Vita Royal website, article about worming: "Worm eggs that are ingested from pastures hatch quickly and perforate the intestinal lining. They then begin a long-term migration through body tissues and organs, where they do their greatest damage. This migration can take 10 to 12 months as they grow and develop. They can migrate anywhere, even through the brain, heart, lungs, etc. Close to maturity, these worms migrate toward the intestine again, with many reentering through the mesenteric artery, which feeds the intestine. This perforation can cause clots and blood flow blockage, resulting in colic and gastrointestinal distress. Larvae then finish their maturation in the intestine for another 18 to 30 days, and begin laying eggs on their own, thus perpetuating the cycle. Worms are generally only susceptible to worming agents when they are in the intestine, only after doing their damage during migration. They continually enter the intestine from body tissues, so worming for one day is only effective that day. By the next day, another batch will have entered, after the worming drug has passed through the gut and been eliminated. Wormers are "pass through" kill. Fortunately, the larvae maturation period serves as a treatment window, since they will not be ready to lay eggs for another several weeks to a month. This is why we can come back in a month with another dose of wormer." *** Hopefully, Dr. Steve will elaborate on this, but as I understand it, a horse may have a lot of larval worms in their body which aren't killed by the wormers, which kill the worms in the intestins. Ivermctin also kills larvae in the tissues, as I understand, but NOT the encysted larve. So when the worms in the intestine are eliminated, encysted larvae are released and migrate to the intestine, doing their damage on the way, then grow to maturity in 18 to 30 days when they start laying eggs, so if you did a stool sample 30 days after the last worming you would likely find worm eggs. It is my understanding also that when the worms are eliminated from the intestine, somehow this may stimulate the release of encysted larvae to take their place..and the migration of these larvae, especially if in large numbers, may cause colic because of the damage they do. Thus colic after worming? OK Dr. Steve, does this sound reasonable? Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, cold and clear with brilliant auroras tonight (Northern Lights) but spring is coming! Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wormers
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, Who does your worming? Personally, I have run into many people in our area who do their own wormings, but really do not know how to do it correctly! There are many things to consider, worming paste rotations, weight of horse, what type of schedule, etc. Often, these factors together are decided based upon the living situation of the horse, for example, is the horse stalled, or in a pen, or in a pasture? Each would all be wormed differently. In my opinion, an equine vet is really the only one qualified to do wormings, and the only one qualified to train the owners to worm properly themselves. If there is doubt, there is nothing wrong with asking your vet to do stool samples, afterall, it would be a great deal cheaper to have this preventive testing done then to deal with the result of poor worming practices!! Again, this is my opinion. Regards, Lynda Lynda and Daniel Bailey's Norwegian Fjord Horse Farm White Cloud, MI 231.689.9902 http://hometown.aol.com/heithingi/BaileysNorwegianFjords.html
Wormers
This message is from: "Sue Harrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi everyone...I was to a meeting with some horse people tonight discussing an up and coming 100 mile trail ride. One of the men there breeds "Welsh Cobs" He had a filly colic this winter. They did a stool sample and found it full of worms. He had wormed a month or so before that with Ivermectin. We had also wormed Storm before he coliced in November. He too had worms in a stool sample. What is going on here? Are the worms becoming resistant to the wormers? We wormed with Ivermectin before Christmas and just finished worming with Panacur. How do we know the wormers are working without taking stool samples? We are going to worm in 3 months with Strongid T. But what if the wormers are no longer working. Anyone else have this problem? Sue in N.B. (Desert Storm's mom)
Re: streams, wormers, bears and those"other" horses
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 9/29/99 10:55:11 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << The vet told me that the daily wormer bombards their system constantly and some horses don't handle this well. I figured why take a chance >> I read that the horses that "usually" have a problem with the daily wormers are endurance horses. Wish I could remember WHY they have this problem, but I don't. Pamela
Re: streams, wormers, bears and those"other" horses
This message is from: "Denise Delgado" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> thank you susan. i've done the same thing and have noticed and increase in energy and spunkiness. quinn could use the extra oomph, knute does'nt need anymore. denise
Re: streams, wormers, bears and those"other" horses
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Denise, Last summer, I started all 4 of my horses on the daily wormer thinking this would work better. One of my horses -- the older one--- didn't do well with it, so I took all of them off and went back to the pasteing. The vet told me that the daily wormer bombards their system constantly and some horses don't handle this well. I figured why take a chance Susan in MN
streams, wormers, bears and those"other" horses
This message is from: "Denise Delgado" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> hi list, i went on a long trail ride yesterday and ran into a problem crossing streams. my horses have never given me a problem with water, even to the point on jumping in and swimming with me still on. so it was quite a surprise yesterday. knute refused and could not be cajoled anyway, noway, nohow!! any help with getting them to ford streams without freaking out would really help. may be it was the rushing water noise. i am thinking knute smelled a bear, since about a third of the way into the ride he started acting really jumping, looking around, pawing and sniffing the air. i mentioned to my friend about bears, (we were in a national forest at the summit of the sierras) and she thought no way... we went along a little ways and came across a forest service sign warning about bears in the area, and some bear scratching trees were labeled also. maybe that was the problem. also got all kinds of compliments and oohs and ahhs about the fjords. lots of people wanted to pet them and know what kind of horses they were. everyone thought they were beautiful horses. a group of riders on "regular" horses asked, "what kind of PONIES are those?" i educated them. do any of you have an opinion about the paste wormers vs. the daily pellets you add to their chow with worming meds in it? (strongcid c) i especially like a vet's ideas on this. and more about frog loss. both of mine have had loose frogs once this summer on one foot and they eventually fell off. a little gross, but no liquidy drainage, odor or open wound type of thing. the new frog skin underneath looked and was nice and healthy. they had no lameness or anything in the way of trouble. i think it is a natural thing for their feet to do. well, i've gone on long enough. denise in northern calif.
Re: Wormers...again
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Dr Brian, Whenever you send a lengthy e-mail on horse ailment, conditions, etc., I warm up my printer. I keep them in a folder, titled, "Veterinary Advice" and feel they eventually I will have a layperson's guide to Equine Veterinary Science. Thank you so much for your input. Question: Which worms cause tail rubbing? And is that a dependable sign of re-infestation? Do you have anything pro or con to add to the use of garlic for purposes of parasite control discussion? Thanks again, Alex Wind Shawsville VA
Re: Wormers...again
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Teressa Kandianis wrote in regards to deworming her two growing Fjords with Quest: >...now the two together exceed the 1150 lbs, ( I think- I don't have the box right in front of >me.) by about 150 lbs. So, I'm guessing that neither of them got the full recommended >dose for their size. >Should I just wait until the next time for worming them? Should I supplement what each >got with a little more Quest now? Will an underdose - though probably a small one - not >knock back the worms? Teressa, The best thing you could do right now to know what that particular dose of Quest did for each of your young Fjords is to have your veterinarian do a fecal exam for worm eggs. We can look in the microscope at a sample of a horse's stool for worm eggs, and, even though there are no hard and fast numbers, we know in general how many worm eggs we should be seeing for a certain number of weeks post deworming. Anotherwards, with good pastewormers, by a week after the dose was administered, we should see very few or preferably no worm eggs in the stool. A month after, we often see the numbers increasing a little. And by about 6 weeks for Strongid and 8weeks for Zimectrin, the worm eggs sometimes are back up to pre-deworming levels. Quest claims that the worm eggs will not rise again to pre-deworming levels until about 12 weeks after using it. So, if you have a fecal exam done and no worm eggs are seen, then either the Quest did the job or your horses did not have adult worms in them laying eggs anyhow. If, however, a fecal exam done a week or two after the deworming shows medium or high numbers of worm eggs, the dose of Quest was insufficient. If you just went ahead, without having a fecal exam done, and gave each of them another small amount of Quest to try to make up for the little bit they missed, you would in effect just be underdosing them twice. So this would not be recommended. As a bit of practical advice, you might take some stool from each of the young Fjords in question to your veterinarian for the fecal exam. If the exam shows medium or high levels of worm eggs, provided your veterinarian agrees to the following advice, deworm them again now with a different type of dewormer (Zimectrin or Strongid for example). If the exam shows low numbers or no worm eggs, deworm them a little sooner than you would have ordinarily and use something other than Quest. So, for example, instead of waiting the 12 weeks that Quest says you can, deworm again in 8 weeks with Zimectrin or Strongid. This way, if any of the worms received a sub-lethal dose of Moxidectin (Quest), and were stunned but not killed so to speak, and are now starting to develop some resistance to Quest, hopefully the next dewormer, being a different kind, would kill them and not allow them to pass that Quest resistance on to thousands of offspring. Keep one thing in mind in regards to the weight tape for Fjords; It more often underestimates their weight than overestimating it. The weight tape was developed on horses who, in general, had higher withers than Fjords and did not have as strong or as heavy bones in their legs. So keep in mind that your Fjords will probably weigh slightly more than what the tape says. For those of you not using a weight tape, make sure you are guessing their weight heavy enough. Studies have shown that most horse owners AND THEIR VETERINARIANS underestimate horses' weight more often than they overestimate it. A weight tape is a good thing to use because, even though it may not be perfect, it gets you close. Sincerely, Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina
RE: Wormers...again
This message is from: Jeri L Rieger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I let my daughter worm our yearling (after hearing promises that she knew exactly what to do!) with Quest. Well, she either didn't set the stop correctly or it malfunctioned and this 500 hundred pound baby got a full dosage. I panicked immediately and called the Hotline number listed on the package and spoke with one of Quest's vets (my vet being out of town). He said it should not do any harm to Mika, make sure that there was plenty of water available and watch her for grogginess. She acted like nothing happened and was fine. My daughter learned about checking and double checking and the fact that wormers are poisons. I would never under worm either for that matter. I was told by my vet that underworming was how worms "learned" tolerance against the worming agent. Jeri L. Rieger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Wormers...again
This message is from: "Teressa Kandianis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sorry to be bringing up this old topic again. My vet recommended Quest and to split one dose between the two horses according to their weight. Well, I did that again last month but then after dosing them, I decided to use the weight tape again. Of course, being growing kids, they weigh more now than they did last winter and now the two together exceed the 1150 lbs, ( I think- I don't have the box right in front of me.) by about 150 lbs. So, I'm guessing that neither of them got the full recommended dose for their size. I reread the postings on wormers and Quest in particular - noting that overdoses can be very harmful. Should I just wait until the next time for worming them? Should I supplement what each got with a little more Quest now? Will an underdose - though probably a small one - not knock back the worms? Thanks for any advice. Teressa Kandianis
Re: wormers...
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] As a non-veterinarian, but someone who works with insect pest management, I read with interest the thread about "daily" use of a wormer. This seems to be a potential problem if some larvae survive the dose given, since these will then be the only ones to breed, and resistance to the medication may become established. Is this not a concern with worming horses?
wormers...
This message is from: Ingrid Ivic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > What's another strategy? Strongid-C (tm) is a dewormer that you feed > daily which is supposed to kill the larvae as soon as they enter the > stomach/intestines and not allow any eggs to be produced. Also nice is > that it helps prevent any damage by 'vacationing' larvae. > Yes, Brian...this is a good method in addition to the paste. The one "non-fjord" horse (a QH) I own had trouble keeping weight on, despite everything we tried. I am meticulous about picking up after the horses, they are fed quality forage and grain and have the best in vet care (teeth floated and shots etc...)...still he looked thin, especially after winter. I've used the Strongis C2x for a year now, and the results are fabulous! That did the trick for him. Thanks for the interesting information. Now, what's this about the Quest gel? I haven't used it yet. Ingrid
