Correct Frame versus pulling in
This message is from: Patricia Pasqual tishpasq...@gmail.com I think this is a great discussion. Just because the way many of our Fjords are built the amount of compression (and I don't mean just in the front of the frame) you are able to get may be limited. However, all horses can and should learn to work off of their back ends. I have found several things that have helped in this work: jumping - because to do this well absolutely requires transferring power to the back end, and in my (very limited) experience this helps make that abundantly clear to the horse (and the rider!), long-lining - because you can see right in front of your eyes what is happening/not happening with the collection (body not hollowed out, footfalls tracking), carriage driving, because it builds up the muscles that help the horse carry themselves in frame (as long as the carriage driving is done correctly and you are asking the horse to get into frame), and finally giving lots and lots of breaks, letting the horse relax and stretch out that neck (so you have something to take back when it comes time to practice collection and so that you develop the ability bit by bit). It takes a long time for horses to develop the muscle system to handle correct collection and self-carriage. I have been working with both a riding and driving trainer, and they are in complete harmony about how to achieve this true collection, which I am very grateful for. The work continues! Tish and Elph in Minneapolis GREAT WEEK here in the Midwest FOR SHOWS - have a wonderful time, everyone! Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Correct frame vs. pulling in
This message is from: Robin Churchill rbc...@yahoo.com I was thinking about this topic this morning as I worked my two fjord geldings. In my opinion or experience, sometimes this is easier said than done. What we all want is for the horse to carry themselves and do the work instead of us doing the work for them. How quickly or if they ever do this ability depends on the horse's conformation and temperament as well as the skill and temperament of the rider. It took me years to ride well enough and have enough skill to get my warmblood to carry himself. It was the reason I got into fjords as a matter of fact, but what I didn't realize at the time was that it was my lack of skill and timidness that was making the horse miserable to ride. However, the techniques I used to make that horse carry himself have not worked on one of the fjords I am riding now. The warmblood was very big and long-necked, a little too straight in the hock and stifle and somewhat lazy. He liked to carry his poll low and go behind the vertical and refused to take the connection making it impossible to half-halt. Part of the issue with him was that in my inexperience and timidness, I did not let him or make him go consistantly forward and would let him stop if something felt bad. What happened was that I trained him that he didn't have to carry himself especially in the canter and that he could lean on me and pull me around in the trot when he wanted to. This horse also had a lot of health issues and had periodic breaks from work so he had to kind of be restarted every so often. Eventually long after I had my first couple fjords and developed more skill and confidence, I was able to retrain this horse and he became really fun to ride. Unfortunately now his health problems have caused him to be a pasture ornament but we had about 2 years that he was really a joy to ride. What worked with him was to not care what he did with his head except not to let him go behind the vertical and get him very forward then gradually as he gained strength take the connection and eventually he would connect in the bridle. Also I had someone help me ride him in the canter because his favorite trick was to just wear you out in the canter so you would just get tired and frustrated and give up. We would tag team him so pretty soon he was cantering twice as long and eventually he gained the strength to carry himself in the canter and the canter became easy to ride. This was after years of literally having him drag me around and work me to death and drop out of the canter when he wanted to. I tried this technique with one of my fjords who is difficult to put in the correct frame and it didn't work at all. This horse is the opposite of that horse in that he being a fjord has a shorter neck and shorter back. Of the two fjords I have, he is the draftier. He likes to stick his head out and go around strung out and letting him go forward in a strung out frame and trying to gradually bring him in doesn't work at all. I am still struggling with him especially in the hot weather which he hates and realize now the mistakes I made with him earlier --one being that because I don't like the feeling when the horse pulls or gets heavy, I would give. What that teaches the horse is that if he pulls or gets heavy, the reins get longer and he doesn't have to stay in that pesky frame and work from behind. I think with this horse if I had taught him in the beginning that if he pulled or got heavy that he was going to get tapped from behind and that there would be no give until he gave that I wouldn't be struggling as much with him now. I mistakenly thought at the beginning that if he was forward he would naturally go into the correct frame which just isn't true for this horse. Putting him in shoulder-fore helps because it makes him step over with his inside leg and carry more behind but I still find him to be a challenge. One thing that also made it more difficult was that for whatever reason, this horse was scared to death of the whip when I got him. I have taught him not to be afraid of the whip, but it took a year or more for him to accept the whip without freaking out a little. I feel like you need to be able to tap them when they need it otherwise if they are a little lazy, you end up just using more and more leg until they are completely unresponsive to it. BTW there is a good article in I think the July Dressage Today by Jane Savoie about getting your horse to go forward on his own accord. On the other hand the other fjord gelding that I have now is the same age and same height as the one above but different conformationally and is no problem to put on the bit. Both of these horses had training from a competent dressage trainer in the beginning so that isn't the difference in them. It is just easier for the second guy. His neck is longer, his back is longer and he is built lighter and tolerates the heat better. So the point I am trying to make is that if you
Re: Fjords in correct frame verses pulling in-discussion
This message is from: Lori Albrough l...@bluebirdlane.com On 7/23/13 9:02 AM, Dave and Patti Walter wrote: I am VERY proud of this mare, what Peg has done with her, what we are continuing with her. Logn's pictures look great Patti Jo. Good job all! Maybe a nice one for yourself, huh? Haven't you always wanted an Ole daughter? :) Lori -- Lori Albrough Bluebird Lane Fjords R.R.#3 Moorefield Ont Canada N0G 2K0 phone: 519-638-5598 email: l...@bluebirdlane.com http://www.bluebirdlane.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Fjords in correct frame verses pulling in-discussion
This message is from: Dave and Patti Walter dwal...@tm.net Thought I'd start a discussion if anyone would like to join in. I recently sent my very good friend Pat Holland a video of a mare that I have here at FCF. The mare is FPF Logn. A 5 yr old Fjord mare that is owned by Peggy Spear. Peg did all the training on this mare, she is simply lovely. I will take some credit as this mare had little exposure and she is forward which we love here at FCF. Luckily Logn is more of a gelding than a mare, so she was very willing to allow me to channel the energy. Being in an indoor is one thing when you want to have them focus on things like YOU the rider, being outside is another! Anyway, I'm getting off course. I took a video of Logn at her first show, which she was a rock star and took home Res Champ. I loved the video so much that I took some still shots from the video and made a short video on youtube from it. I love still pictures, they just show it all. THIS IS THE WAY Fjords should be trained and ridden 1) From back to front 2) Uphill 3) LIGHT in the bridle 4) Relaxed and Willing 5) Correct Muscling in NECK, TOPLINE, BACKEND http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi14bwVQOrw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi14bwVQOrwfeature=c4-overviewlist=UUQvt9v siBu1ekt4ILsGR7pA feature=c4-overviewlist=UUQvt9vsiBu1ekt4ILsGR7pA Of course not all Fjords will look this way, you have to have very good conformation to start with, but you still should work them this way. Most will just look at the head and see if it's vertical. A hollowed out horse can still flex and be vertical in the head. I have to say I have seen way too many Fjords pulled in/cranked in and there is such a difference when it's done right. I am VERY proud of this mare, what Peg has done with her, what we are continuing with her. If you want to see the video of her at the show, the link is on my website at www.franciscreekfjords.com Anyway, thought it might be of interest to some out there and start a discussion? Patti Jo Walter Francis Creek Fjords Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: pulling shoes
This message is from: Kristie Strange gibsong...@gamewood.net Thanks everyone for the responses. It's been almost a week and Izzy has been frolicking around the field with no signs of tenderness at all. Granted, we've had rain and the fields are soft. I'm going to ride with some friends later this morning and we'll see how she does. This farm has mostly dirt trails and fields, but some gravel roads. I'm curious to see how sensitive, if at all, she'll be. I have a friend that has a Haflinger gelding and he's never worn shoes. She takes him over all kinds of terrain and even foxhunts him and he does great. I know it depends on the horse, so we'll try and see. :) -Kristie Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: pulling shoes
This message is from: Kristie Strange gibsong...@gamewood.net Well I rode Izzy today and she was GREAT! Met up with some friends and we stayed mostly on dirt and in fields and she did just fine without her shoes. We even cantered some in the field. She bucked a little at first, but we went both directions and she got her leads first try. :) -Kristie Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
pulling shoes
This message is from: Kristie Strange gibsong...@gamewood.net I had my four year old's shoes pulled this week (she was only shod on the front). We're going to try it for the winter, in case it snows, I really want to ride in the snow without worrying about iceballs in her feet. But if she does well, I may consider leaving her barefoot. Anybody have barefoot success with regular riding (trails, gravel, and such)? Thanks! -Kristie Strange Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: pulling shoes
This message is from: Lola Lahr lolal...@gmail.com All of my horses are barefoot. We run into *sharp* stones riding the logging roads at times, and Easyboot Epics all around take care of any discomfort. Last weekend I took Lisa, my fjord, out without boots, over a graveled parking lot, some graveled stretches of trail, and she went right through those areas without a problem. We ride a lot in all kinds of conditions: mud, big and little rocks, wet, slippery rocks, etc. and I've not seen the need for shoes. Check the Easy Care website for tips and advice on barefoot and boots (of course, they SELL the boots, but it's good info). Keep in mind that you might have to use boots for a while until the hoof and sole grow out - it takes about a year- so one must be patient. Read Pete Ramey's information on timming and hoof care. It is invaluable. Check out the Horse's Hoof that's also a great website and the newsletters are very informative and fun to read. On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 5:33 AM, Kristie Strange gibsong...@gamewood.netwrote: This message is from: Kristie Strange gibsong...@gamewood.net I had my four year old's shoes pulled this week (she was only shod on the front). We're going to try it for the winter, in case it snows, I really want to ride in the snow without worrying about iceballs in her feet. But if she does well, I may consider leaving her barefoot. Anybody have barefoot success with regular riding (trails, gravel, and such)? Thanks! -Kristie Strange Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: pulling shoes
This message is from: Willows Edge Farm i...@willowsedgefarm.com Hi Kristi, Interesting how we all get used to certain things...I can not even imagine putting shoes on our Fjords (7 at the moment :-) ). Being more urban, our trails all require blacktop or the gravel paths along side. Sometimes they get a little nicked up, but they have amazingly tough hooves and have never shown sensitivity. As for our trails, we have a few actual horse trails but most are power lines that lead to crazy side trails where we get to see where our local Sherriff's office practices swat maneuvers for crack houses. No kidding. Interesting trail rides in the 'burbs! Side note - for those who loved the Winters of Long Ago, I still have a few of copies of one of those - A Grand Day on our website. Duncan is obviously a gifted artist and lover of his Fjords - he really captures their personalities. Corinne Logan Willows Edge Farm Bothell, WA (425) 402-6781 www.willowsedgefarm.com www.seattlecarriagerides.com From: Kristie Strange gibsong...@gamewood.net Subject: pulling shoes This message is from: Kristie Strange gibsong...@gamewood.net I had my four year old's shoes pulled this week (she was only shod on the front). We're going to try it for the winter, in case it snows, I really want to ride in the snow without worrying about iceballs in her feet. But if she does well, I may consider leaving her barefoot. Anybody have barefoot success with regular riding (trails, gravel, and such)? Thanks! - -Kristie Strange Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: pulling shoes
This message is from: katesei...@aol.com Joe and Della are barefoot. Della's always been barefoot, Joe went through long painful rehab after removing his shoes. I will put boots on them if we are going someplace I know or suspect might be gravel. But around the trails at our house, which are mostly dirt, a little gravel, and some stream crossings, they are both fine. Kate * In a message dated 12/13/2008 8:36:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, gibsong...@gamewood.net writes: I had my four year old's shoes pulled this week (she was only shod on the front). We're going to try it for the winter, in case it snows, I really want to ride in the snow without worrying about iceballs in her feet. But if she does well, I may consider leaving her barefoot. Anybody have barefoot success with regular riding (trails, gravel, and such)? **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. The NEW AOL.com.(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0019) Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: pulling shoes
This message is from: plumg...@pon.net plumg...@pon.net I do pretty well with Rom. Round type gravel is no problem. Gunthar has flat feet. He is draftier, and maybe would have flatter feet anyway. He tends to be tender. I have two three QH that also do pretty well, though all gimp on roads with big crushed rock pieces. With the cost of shoeing one can do a lot of experimenting with boots. I use the Easy Boot Epics, but am considering trying the Renegades. It would take a big emergency to get me to put shoes back any of my horses. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: pulling shoes
This message is from: plumg...@pon.net plumg...@pon.net I do pretty well with Rom. Round type gravel is no problem. Gunthar has flat feet. He is draftier, and maybe would have flatter feet anyway. He tends to be tender. I have two three QH that also do pretty well, though all gimp on roads with big crushed rock pieces. One should know, however, that horses in shoes are also getting their feet bruised on these same rocks (think about it, the shoes do not lift them up that high). The horses just do not gimp because their feet are numbed by the lack of circulation in their feet. So says our vet/farrier. With the cost of shoeing one can do a lot of experimenting with boots. I use the Easy Boot Epics, but am considering trying the Renegades. It would take a big emergency to get me to put shoes back any of my horses. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: pulling shoes
This message is from: Erin Yanish vistaridgefa...@yahoo.com ' My feeling on shoes is only if needed. We only put shoes on our fjords if we are driving them on tar frequently. Our experience was that our fjords were pretty durable on most any surface except tar and cement. This is when we drive and ride our fjords 4-6 days a week on this type of surface. Some others may find this to never be a problem for thier fjords, which is great. I suggest trying without and if you start seeing some wear and tear you can always go back. The key to any horses hooves are that they get a balanced trim. Ask questons of your farrier, know why they are trimming them the way they are. There are many opinions on shoes or no shoes. If a horses hoof is holding up just fine (no chips, sand cracks etc.) there is no need to put them on. An honest farrier will be up front if they are required. Another good thing to watch for is if your farrier does hot shoeing. Hot shoeing is when they use an anvil and forge to shape each shoe to the specific hoof. If they are just taking a cold shoe and nailing it on I would question the reason why. The closest example I have would be if you were a size nine and someone told you to go 5 weeks wearing a size seven. You are going to be painful. Proper hoof care is crucial to any horse, get references on any farrier you would like to try. We do run our draft horses all year round with shoes. The reason being is that they are in constant contact with hard surfaces. In the winter we use borium on the bottoms for traction and pads to prevent balls of snow We will go barefoot anytime they are not giving rides. For the most part they are always out and about. Feel free to contact if you have any questions, I do not consider my self an expert, but my husband is a farrier. He went to school for it and has had to deal with numerous and unique cases of hoof care. He has also worked tight with hoof experts and apprenticed under knowledgable farriers. Anyone can claim to be great because they have worked as a farrier for 20 years, but have they had any situations that force them to learn? Erin Yanish www.vistaridgefarms.com --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Kristie Strange gibsong...@gamewood.net wrote: From: Kristie Strange gibsong...@gamewood.net Subject: pulling shoes To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 7:33 AM This message is from: Kristie Strange gibsong...@gamewood.net I had my four year old's shoes pulled this week (she was only shod on the front). We're going to try it for the winter, in case it snows, I really want to ride in the snow without worrying about iceballs in her feet. But if she does well, I may consider leaving her barefoot. Anybody have barefoot success with regular riding (trails, gravel, and such)? Thanks! -Kristie Strange Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: pulling shoes
This message is from: plumg...@pon.net plumg...@pon.net I would encourage folks not to get too worried about chipping up. My horses are trimmed every five weeks. If they go over that, they are clearly getting long (at least most times of the year) and start chipping worse than if they are trimmed regularly. To a certain extent, chipping is the way horses self-trim their feet, so I would not get real concerned about minor chipping. Gail pretty durable on most any surface except tar and cement. This is when we drive and ride our fjords 4-6 days a week on this type of surface. Some others may find this to never be a problem for thier fjords, which is great. I suggest trying without and if you start seeing some wear and tear you can always go back. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Pulling Power - stopping going
This message is from: fjords [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have exhaust brakes on my F350 (1 ton) and LOVE them! I highly recommend them! They slow my truck and 37' three horse with living quarter trailer down on hills without my ever touching the brakes in most cases. I also had a Banks exhaust system and chip put in my truck which increased my diesel mileage and pulling power. My truck is my only vehicle - I don't own a car. Taffy Mercer Kennewick, WA The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Pulling shoes
This message is from: Ardeth Obenauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] If your horse is used to being shod and training in shoes, it might not be a good idea to pull them right before a competition regardless of the footing. They can be tender when first going barefoot, it could have a negative effect on their performance. ao Ardeth Obenauf The Lazy AO Farm Shelbyville, TN The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Sleigh Pulling Pony
This message is from: Lisa Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] I had a POA driving pony. We taught her to drive by pulling a forecart. When it was time to pull a sleigh I just hitched her and went. She had learned that sometimes you had to pull hard from the forecart. Don't know if this helps any but it worked for me. She never had any trouble. Lisa Wiley Turnabout Portuguese Water Dogs Connecticut State Director Ponies With Purpose Corresponding Secretary FASTeam http://www.myturnabout.com
Re: Pulling into Blue Earth next week a few reminders/updates
This message is from: Pat Holland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why don't you just do what we do when totally out of room, Pat ? Just tie the extra stuff to the hood or bumper. Lisa Lisa, I'm looking forward to seeing you all pull in at the grounds. Please have a safe trip. As of this date we are putting up 140 stalls and I'm still getting a few late entry stragglers. I'd like to remind those of you whom are coming without need of hook up you will have to park your trailers further and behind the people with need of hook up. We have 22 rigs in need of electrical connections and they will have spaces set up closer to the barns. A few more updates: 1) In the In Hand - w/t Combination Trail class there will be a mounting block available to use in the class. 2) I just received another sponsorship from Colonial Carriage Works, it is in the form of a gift certificate to Todd Frey's carriage and driving business in Columbus, Wi. 3) Some of the classes will be in need of splitting. - for those of you new to show procedures, in large classes 1/2 of you go into the ring first and perform the requirements in full, where several will be asked to return for the finals - the other 1/2 then goes in and performs and again several are choose, then the people whom made the two cuts return for the final class, will be judged again against the top of the class. I have shown in shows so large that the preliminary rounds are often run during the week prior to the finals, and there are a dozen or more cut classes - such as at QH Congress and National Western Stock Show. We're not quite up to those numbers...but I find it remarkable we have grown so in size and quality we now have the need to split classes. A major progressive feat considering how few Fjords there are compared to other breeds. I would also like to mention to those whom think the Blue Earth show is JUST a beginners show, a stepping stone to the big time shows, that they need to come and watch some of the classes. Without mentioning all the accomplished and highly talented riders/ drivers I've seen over the years - last year at Blue Earth Kay Van Netta and her horse Braveheart won the Ride Drive and gave a performance that not only would win any sanctioned ADS show, but would have left them in the dust, absolutely, top of the line, classy work. Pat Holland
Re: bit pulling, saddles, Randys illness and broken ankle
This message is from: Vivian Creigh [EMAIL PROTECTED] GAIL RUSSELL1/4/02 1:01 [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have VERY wide feet and am unused to having my feet squished into too small shoes. I can get my feet into cowboy boots...but then can think of nothing else but getting them off!! The best-fitting riding boots I have found are Blundstone boots...the pull on waterproof type. They are for sale at many tack stores. However, they still may not be big enough. I also have wide feet and bunions which make most footwear into a torture device in minutes Blundstone boots are the best thing I have ever owned for general all purpose barn work and riding, however they are very expensive if you buy them in the US. My friends and I all buy them from this site Down Under and they are not only cheap but these people are incredibly helpful and shipping is not expensive and they can get them to you in under a week! These boots are incredibly long wearing and amazingly comfortable. I wear the classic style which seems to be wide enough even for me. Here is their link. Good Luck http://www.paradisefootwear.com/blundstone/brown.htm Vivian Creigh
Re: bit pulling, saddles, Randys illness and broken ankle
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have VERY wide feet and am unused to having my feet squished into too small shoes. I can get my feet into cowboy boots...but then can think of nothing else but getting them off!! The best-fitting riding boots I have found are Blundstone boots...the pull on waterproof type. They are for sale at many tack stores. However, they still may not be big enough. Another alternative might be motorcycle boots. Years ago I bought a very small men's pair of Italian zip up motorcycle boots. They were actually too big (I wear a women's size 6 1/2 to 7)...and the smallest men's sizes are always too big. Anyway...they have a side zipper that allows one to get them on without struggle. These are not the really heavy engineer's boots that are sometimes used for motorcycle riding. Motorcycle boots have a heel on them, similar to a cowboy boot...though not as high. Anyone have any suggestions what kind of riding boot I can get?...one that will go over a very thick foot and ankle? Sue in N.B. (Desert Storm's mom) Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bit pulling, saddles, Randys illness and broken ankle
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sue sorry you and your husband are having so many problems. Just hope you have some help with the chores and a lot of patience. Jean Jean Walters Gayle [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ] http://users.techline.com/jgayle Send $20 Three Horses Press PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
bit pulling, saddles, Randys illness and broken ankle
This message is from: Sue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Fjord Friends- Thanks to my dear Husband, I have a wonderful Western Saddle! I'm determined to learn to ride with confidence and joy this year! I rode on my 8 year old gelding, Patrick, today with my new saddle When he spooked at some ice falling off the roof I was glad I had my new saddle. I was firm in my seat. My question is, Patrick has this habit of pulling against me on the bit. I feel as if my arms are often struggling against him. He brings his head as far down as he can, although I resist him as much as possible, and pulls I have been told to give a direct and quick jerk upwards with my rein. Is this the best method to stop him from doing this irritating thing? Dear PatCongrats on the new saddle. Does it have the curved front like a roping saddle? My old saddle does and I have never come out of it! (knock on wood)...however, my new wintec has a rounded front and in the summer, that durned arab mare of mine spooked, jumped forward and I nearly came out of it. Also my name was mud as the mare spooked Randy's horse and he almost came off. Now that I have my injured ankle to contend with (broke and dislocated it the last of Oct.), I am strongly considering getting forward facing stirrups that automatically release my foot if I come unseated, put them on my old saddle...and say to heck with the western wintec. As far as your horse pulling on the bit, I had a Morgan that did that constantly. End result...my wrist, elbow and shoulder had to be operated on from all the fighting. I sure hope someone in here can help you with this problem before you end up as I didselling the horse and going through surgery. Well hubby has had one session of Chemo for his Lymphoma and is to have another on the 11th of January...with 4 more to follow every 3 weeks. Thank goodness his pain is under control and he is feeling better. I was to the orthpedic surgeon who operated on my busted ankle, and it seems that I am looking at 4 to 6 months recovery time (I have two months in so far) and was told I may never get my cowboy boot back on my foot! I not only broke a couple of bones, but the worst injury was I totally dislocated my ankle severing the main ligament and tendons as well. They have grown together, but my ankle and lower leg is terribly swollen. I am walking however, though limping badly. I still have not made it to the barn. I am taking physio therapy, and the therapist is in hopes the swelling will go down with time. Anyone have any suggestions what kind of riding boot I can get?...one that will go over a very thick foot and ankle? Well gotta get to bed, take care everyone. Sue in N.B. (Desert Storm's mom)
mane pulling
This message is from: karen kathka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sue, I read in a Linda Tellington-Jones book once (Lets Ride)that if a few hairs are pulled at a time Straight Up from the mane it is not supposed to be painful to the horse. I did both of my fjords last summer for the DNA test and they slept through the proceedure. Karen _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
RE: Log Pulling Information
This message is from: Curtis Pierce [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pat McCurdy wanted to know: How far are the cones set apart for the pull? The NFHR Judges Rule Book states Horse to pull log in work harness through 5 cones both directions. Cones set 6 inches less than length of log. The rules are not complete. The log should be 12 to 15 feet long. The rules mentions a 5 second penalty for touching a cone and 2 seconds for going outside the 30 foot side boundry lines. I'm glad to hear that others are interested in log pulling. It will be fun! See you there! Curt Pierce Bristow VA
Log Pulling Information
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Everyone! I'm warming Patrick up for the log pull at the August 5th show in Weedsport NY and I have a technical question: How far are the cones set apart for the pull? I want to run him through a course that comes close to a set standard. Thanks! Hope we'll be seeing many of you at the August 5th show. As a member of the show committee I must promote this first time event. Take Care! Pat McCurdy Cato, NY
Pulling Wolf teeth
This message is from: Mark and Lisa McGinley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Apparently our philly Asa has been reading the fjord list over my shoulder and decided to do a little dentistry on her mom. A couple of days ago we noticed that Alida (Mom) had a swollen right side of her face. When I looked at it it appeared to be a kick wound. Sure enough the Vet came out and said that it was an Impact injury and her right wolf tooth was barely in. He pulled it out and she's doing fine now. Never did stop eating though!! Asa was proud to help us out in regards to those pesky wolf teeth. I know it was Asa because Alida won't let her get very close anymore. Maybe we have a new dominant mare?... At two years old? Uh Oh. Mark McGinley Mariposa Farm Fjord horses, Australian Shepherds, sheep and fibers Washburn, Wisconsin, USA
pulling
This message is from: Jim and TammyHooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] Greetings to all on the list. I have learned a lot. Thanks to the DNA test I now know for sure the identity of my Fjord mare.Later this summer my husband wants to teach our Fjord gelding (who will be 4 years old) to pull. We have a lot of fallen timber on our property that needs to be cleared. My husband may be interested in recreationally competing as well. Can anyone suggest where we can get books that will give us teaching tips on training to pull. Thank you, Tammy Hooper Bonners Ferry, ID where we feed deer, elk, and moose as well as our Fjords
Re: Pulling Back i n a Runaway?
This message is from: Cheryl Beillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Okay Jean . I'll bite .. You described the error you made in hauling back on the reins as you sailed over the gate/manure pile, etc. Can you be a little more explicit about what you were told about how to bring your almost runaway under control? I guess my instinct would be to saw on the reins, as turning on a road could be dicey, particularly if there are ditches like there are around here.. a good five feet or more, sometimes. Not to mention the rocks/trees, etc. All these stories of runaways/driving disasters are certainly food for thought .. I, for one, am paying attention!
Pulling, Gelding Stallions and Mares Cycling
This message is from: Nancy Hotovy [EMAIL PROTECTED] My first comment would be in regards to having your farrier or veterinarian decide whether you have a stallion prospect or not. A farrier or veterinarian SHOULD be able to tell about conformation flaws however breed type is not something they would have any idea about. My farrier absolutely loved a 15 1 hand Fjord gelding I purchased that we nicknamed our Thoroughbred Fjord because he reminded us more of TB type than Fjord type. This horse had great conformation and a wonderful attitude but his type was totally out of sync with what a Fjord should be. Be careful in regards to judging a colt that is young also. Other than obvious conformational faults, they change a lot before they mature and all seem to go through an ugly stage at some point in their development. I'm not advocating keeping all colts in tact until they are older, but be careful in your assessment of a good or bad colt. No offense Brian and Steve but all veterinarians are not horse people. As far as Fjord mares cycling different then other breeds, please explain further. Mine have always cycled pretty much like any other horse. Of course there are individual mares that have never read the book and do their own thing, however, we get many mares of all other breeds in our clinic for AI and there are a few of those that also do some very strange cycles so I would rather think it's an individual mare thing rather than a Fjord thing. My husband, Rich has done quite a bit of pulling over the past 10 years and has had teams that do very well (actually placing at draft horse pulls) and also has had horses that do not have the mind for pulling. Our best is a gelding Anvil's Birger. He can pull and then be hooked to a cart or wagon and do fine. He truly is the exception as my feelings are that most horses can pull periodically but if that is all they do, they get that pulling mentality. Rich works his teams in the woods quite a bit. Two years ago he logged 120,000 board feet one winter. He worked 6 days a week and his team was really fit. Made him feel good when he went down to the barn in the morning and held out the collar and Birger put in head right in it - - never hesitated. Anyway he only entered the fun and barnyard pulls (the professionals really play hardball and some do use very controversial training methods) and placed near the top in every one against mostly Belgians. My personal opinion is that pulling itself is not cruel. It's one of those sports that people who are too competitive have made cruel, both by the training methods used and not knowing their horses well enough to stop when they have had enough. We sold a team to some VERY elderly people for driving. Heard later that they not only drove this pair EVERY day but would enter a pony pull periodically and had NEVER lost. I heard this from a very irate puller (who had just lost to them). He said he'd never seen anything like it - - the man couldn't walk very fast and his wife hooked the team and she was all bent over. The team just stood patiently and when the guy took hold of the lines and said Let's go boy's they just walked off with the load. This guy was s mad - sure those fjords were bigger than they measured. He didn't know who he was complaining to. Rich and I chuckled for weeks over that one. OK I'm going to quit chatting now. Sorry for being long-winded. I just have so much more energy with that heat index below 110! Nancy
Re: pulling / lets ask Orville
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, Bjarne would do anything for Orville, even after his experience with the other owner, but with a novice like me I think his fears came back, it was like he had flashbacks. He trusts me much more now, but I haven't tried driving him again. Jean in sunny Fairbanks, Alaska, 80 degrees and rising! Lauren Sellers wrote: It was Orville his daughter that first infected me with fjord fever. I saw them perform in a wieght pull so calm cool compared to the other horses there, it was like night day. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
pulling / lets ask Orovil
This message is from: fjords [EMAIL PROTECTED] It was Orvil his daughter that first infected me with fjord fever. I saw them perform in a wieght pull so calm cool compared to the other horses there, it was like night day. Then his daughter drove the calm pair. It was poetry in motion. Comparing the fjords to the other breeds there ended my search for the perfect breed. Instead of breeding my paint /clydsdale cross I persued breeding fine fjords now I have 17 and am so happy. What is your magic to keep them so calm in a wieght pull ? Thank you Orovil for fjord fever. Lauren Sellars www.fjordhorse.net
Re: Pulling contests
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My old gelding Bjarne was used (and abused ) in pulling contests before I got him after Orville Unrau reposssessed the team. His team mate was ruined, his brain was fried but Bjarne seemed OK. However he still , after 12 years I've had him, gets hyper in arenas, [...] will tend to get excited and hard to hold if I put much contact on the bit. Yes, I assume most horses in Pulling contests are NOT abused but it does affect them I think it has a lot to do with what the animal does for a living. If all they do is pulling contests, then they get hot about it. The boss wants to win, and there's this atmosphere of tension, so they learn all the wrong things. OTOH, if the animal makes its living pulling a plow, or logging, and only occasionally is asked to do a pulling contest, it's a much different situation. Plows and logs need to be started slowly, by leaning into the collar, and moved smoothly. Blasting into the collar wears a horse down when there's a full day of work ahead. Many years ago, at Libby, there was a father and son (horse farmers) who entered the pulling contests. Every year, they'd swap teams, and almost every year, the father would win---Sonny usually got excited and had the horses leaping into the collar; Dad would ease them into it, together. One year, the old man's team hadn't had much field work that spring, and couldn't move the top weight. He would have been allowed 3 tries at the weight, but after the second one, he shook his head, reached down, unhooked the team, and quietly drove them away. It was pretty clear that the crowd figured he was the real winner Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Pulling contests
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill, Here are some quotes from comments on the Carriage Driving List about pulling contests: Dear Eve, The way you describe Tom's behavior it sure sounds like he was used in pulling contests, a sport by the way- that Amish do not compete in. Each time the pony is hooked the weight is increased and they get progressively more worked up as the contest continues. I was at a pony pull last week and there was a pair weighing 2100 lbs who were pulling a load of over 4000 lbs in a sled- just to give you an idea of what we are talking about. It is extremely hard to rework a pulling horse back into a pleasure animal, I am not saying that it can not be done- but it will be a lot of work... his excitement for the pull combined with the fact that he may have never worked single really lays out a job for you. Another thing to bear in mind is that hitting or slapping the lines is stricly illegal in contests, although this makes the show appear more humane, it also means that a few unscrupulous horrible people use very nasty methods at home to incite their teams to give it their all. I have heard of electricity being hooked to the BIT! (God knows how this gives forward motion or how one manages to ever bridle a horse who has had this done- but it happens) There are many pulling styles- some drive up and as soon as the hook of the evener clinks with the chain of the sled- they slam out without a word from the driver. Some drivers drive in and let the ponys stand (jitter is more like it) and they get the two alligned so their start will be together- the word for go is usually... HERE Yep, I bet if you try that on Tom- he'll rip the singletree out of your cart. These horses are also like slingshots- the harder you hold the reins the harder they expect the load to be and the harder they hit the collar when you let go. If you watch a pull, a team that is white eyed and freaking at the sled, will be low headed and relaxed two minutes later while they wait for the next go round. Like thorobred racehorses- they are very into pressure! Near the end of the pull, some teamsters will lead rather than drive the horses into place and pick up the lines very careful not to get any contact until they are ready to go, then they have only seconds between the first contact, the collection and the slingshoting release. At 11:47 AM 8/3/1999 +, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Joel (and any others), We have a team of big strong geldings that we have been urged to enter into local pony pulls. I have always resisted (and will continue to so so) since I believe that the way horse pulls are run around here at least is very unnatural, and potentially hurtfull to the horses. My old gelding Bjarne was used (and abused ) in pulling contests before I got him after Orville Unrau reposssessed the team. His team mate was ruined, his brain was fried but Bjarne seemed OK. However he still , after 12 years I've had him, gets hyper in arenas, bolted with me in the cart years ago in an arena, and will tend to get excited and hard to hold if I put much contact on the bit. Great as a trail horse, but I'll never drive him again. Yes, I assume most horses in Pulling contests are NOT abused but it does affect them Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, Sunny and forecast to be 80 degrees..Summer is back! Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DNA hair pulling
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 7/9/99 20:18:23 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I pull from several sites and do not try to pull the required 50-100 hairs from one site. None were delighted with me, but were stoic about it. Since it's finally nice and hot in Oregon, I think today I'll give Skylark a nice bath. And a very good grooming session as she dries. Then in the midst of the grooming session I'll pluck a few here, a few there and she'll just think it's part of her grooming. Thank you all for your responses and help. I never had to do this with my arabs, qhs and tbs. So I was at a complete loss when I got my DNA test kit. Now I have some sort of a clue how to do this today. Pamela
DNA hair pulling
This message is from: Margaret Strachan [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just today pulled hair on 3 horses. I pull from several sites and do not try to pull the required 50-100 hairs from one site. None were delighted with me, but were stoic about it. Margaret Strachan Village Farm Nuevo, CA Sunny and nice, but an unprecedented 2 of rain yesterday.
equipment for pulling logs?
This message is from: Dave McWethy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ingrid, to pull the occasional log, there are a couple of levels of what you can do. Use your leather driving harness. They can pull a LOT of weight with a breast collar. Level one, primitive and temporary, is to use twine (or go for quality, use real nylon rope) to attach to a single tree. Attach a chain to the log and to the singletree. Off you go! Level two, write me about making adapters, to buckle onto the traces, so that you end up with chain to attach to the singletree. I believe a pair of them is $30. If you pull more than once or twice a summer, these will be well worth having. Both arrangements will work, I can tell you from experience.
equipment for pulling logs?
This message is from: Ingrid Ivic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi folks, We have a few acres at the back of the property that are undeveloped, with many downed trees. I was wondering what do I need equipment-wise for the fjords, to pull some of these logs up front, to be split and stacked for firewood? I don't have any experience with pulling logs and would love to hear from some of you who have. I do have a sturdy leather harness, but what else do I need? We want to do this safely, for man and beast. Thanks a bunch...Ingrid aka Paulette Bunyon in Ohio. :o) Fjords...gotta love 'em!
Nutrition-pulling
This message is from: misha nogha [EMAIL PROTECTED] First of all I wanted to say thank you to Dr. Jacobsen for putting so much great and helpful information on the net. I know he must have an extremely busy schedule with horse raising and vet work. Thanks Brian! I also wanted to thank breeders in general with comments on feeding Fjords. With a lot of horses going through your places you have chances to experiment--trial and error. I kind of vary my feed depending on the individual horse and needs. Pregnant mares and foals need more. I always supplement. I do have a nice grass hay with a few alfalfa flakes in it. I think they need the protein alfalfa offers. As far as grain, I use straight oats, and usually give it just as a cereal bowl base to put supplement in it. I have talked to several nutritionists and some of the ones I liked best had worked some with draft horses. Great talk folks, keep it coming. As far as Fjords built for pulling. I am rather confused by saying that that is why those horses are heavier on the front end. Horses don't pull with the front, they are actually pushing against the harness and using their hind end as an engine. I think whether you like the light fjords or heavy ones, they all seem to be able to do the job and a variety of jobs as well. I think it has a lot to do with prference. I just like the look of a horse with a little more hind end, maybe it just seems more balanced. I do like looking at various Fjord lines and there are some I like and some I don't. I have to say though, there are many, many excellent stallions in North America and I would be proud to say I owned a foal out of any of them. Breeders in NA have done a darn good job! It's one of the really fun things about looking at The Herald. I just love seeing all these fine reps of Fjords, and of horseflesh in general. I guess that's why I don't mind sending buyers to various breeders when I don't have enough to go around. People in Alaska, stay warm! You make me feel like a whus for complaining about mud right now. Ha. Misha
Re: Re: pulling logs
This message is from: Dave McWethy [EMAIL PROTECTED] This has started as an off list conversation, but may be of more general interest. If not, what do I care? Scroll! Questions: What is the weight or length and diameter of the logs you pull? How is your harness different than cart harnessing? Is log pulling related in any ways to weight pulls? Can I convince you or someone in your log pulling group to film me a video? Maybe of your harnessing rig and an actual log pull? Thanks so much for the help, Dave. Josie Larson ANSWER: I suppose there will eventually be an Olympic standard for log pull logs, but at the moment I am pretty sure it is whatever happens to be at hand. There is certainly a right size. It should be heavier than a branch and lighter than a redwood. There should be a bit of heft, but it should be something the horse can pull without straining. But you don't want it light enough that it floats, not tracking. Length should be about 10 or 12 feet. Harness has generally been neck collar work harness. I don't think there is any rule, and I would have no objection to someone adapting carriage harness as long as it is safe. The log pull has no relation to weight pulling. I would think of it as the difference between weight lifting and ballet. Finesse is everything! Video? If someone did a video we would have caught them practising, which I personally think is poor sportsmanship in this event. Do it? Just go out and pull one of those logs specified above through a serpentine of cones. And then do it faster. I hate to diminish the mystique of the event, but that's all there is to it. Are you listening, Pat, Rich or Brian? Did I miss any of the fine points? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Re: pulling logs Date: October 11, 1998 I don't know about books. I thought we of the Fjord world have invented the event, which, BTW has nothing to do with logging. We set up I think seven cones in a row. I don't know the interval, but maybe 15 feet apart. We go through a gate of a couple cones at one end, and try to do a serpentine through the cones, turn at the end, and do a serpentine back. The event is timed. The best score will be the fewest cones touched (balls knocked down) in the fastest time. The driver cannot go on the wrong side of a cone, since they represent trees! That would count as a knockdown. It has evolved into a wild event where folks try to fly through. The trick, if there is one, is to go smooth with as few abrupt sharp turns as possible. An unspoken rule, if I am right, is that we don't bother to practice at home. Good preparation would be doing any sort of serpentine, where you are turning right and left in quick succession. Is this helpful? Dave
