Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art???
Jer Brand wrote: It might not be a horrible idea to create two projects I think it is a bad idea. The more swf files, the more complicated. Keep it to just one if possible. Separating the code on the other hand is a good idea. Use packages for that, not separate swf files. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art???
It might not be a horrible idea to create two projects: A Flex UI that loads the "canvas" .swf built as an ActionScript project (either in Flash or Flex). You just need to reference swfLoaderInstance.content (or swfLoaderInstance.content['movieClipInstanceName'] if it's a child) and you have your graphics class there for your UI to manipulate. The idea of separating application logic from graphics code appeals my obsessive need to put things in buckets. Performance has been acceptable, but I've not done any serious graphics processing with the technique. Jer ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art???
Canvas has a significant impact on performance if you allow the flex
framework to do measuring and layout and style management. It is not
ideal for generative art work that needs to have a high level of
performance.
You can do it but you just need to override a whole bunch of methods
to avoid measuring, layout and style changes.
There are also a few flex-like components for Flash that will provide
some measure of layout capability for you (minimal comps is but one
example).
- jon
On Jun 10, 2010, at 8:30 PM, Gerry Beauregard wrote:
Hi Jim,
I see no reason why Flex can't be used for interactive artwork. The
Canvas component in Flex is derived from Sprite, so anything that
you would do in a Sprite can be done in a Canvas.
We've been using FlexBuilder 3 for development of everything at www.sonoport.com
. (I haven't upgraded to Flash Builder 4 yet). While we don't do
generative visual art, some of what we do is pretty CPU-intensive,
e.g. our time-stretcher/pitch-shifting (http://labs.sonoport.com/audiostretch/
).
We build a lot of the core audio processing stuff that's common
across many of projects as SWCs ("Flex Library Project") in
FlexBuilder. We then use use those SWCs either in "Flex Projects"
or "ActionScript Projects". Either way, we get a SWF, and the
performance of all the audio stuff is the same.
In our case, the choice of whether to use the "Flex Project" or
"ActionScript Project" option is mainly dependent on whether we want
to use all the controls that Flex provides, along with the
convenience of the "Design" mode that makes it super-easy to specify
the layout of those controls.
There is a bit of extra size overhead if you go with Flex. A new
"Flex Project" with no additional controls results in a 176KB swf
(when you export a release build) , whereas an "ActionScript
Project" is just 4KB.
Cheers,
-Gerry
The overhead
On 2010-06-11 , at 03:46 , Jim Andrews wrote:
I'm a bit confused as to how to proceed with Flash. I've been using
Director for the last 11 years.
You can see the sort of (Director Shockwave) apps I like to create
at http://vispo.com/dbcinema/sw/sw.htm and http://vispo.com/jig/arteroids/exe
. These apps contain menus, spin controls, drop-down menus, and
similar types of controls, and generally lots of them. But they
also contain, in the case of http://vispo.com/dbcinema/sw/sw.htm ,
high-performance generative art. They're both very 'interactive
interface' oriented and also very high-performance-art-oriented.
Windowing, menuing, dialog boxes, and interactive controls are
important to them. But so is lots of room for the art.
I don't really care about filesize being bulked up by Flex. High
speed access is common, these days. But if Flex is slow in
performance, that's the more important thing, to me. Is it? How is
it in terms of speed?
How would you approach making the above sorts of apps in Flash?
Would you create them as ActionScript projects or would you use Flex?
ja
http://vispo.com
----- Original Message - From: "Jer Brand"
To: "Flash Coders List"
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art???
Flex is for RIA's and helps you with layouts and common controls
and doesn't
really provide anything useful for generating art with either
vectors or
drawing to a sprite. With the framework itself bulking up the size
of your
swf and consuming additional resources, it's not really a good
thing.
The generative art I typically use straight ActionScript with a
library of
choice -- Hype (http://www.hypeframework.org/) being particularly
awesome
for that kinda thing.
There's nothing stopping you from using Flex / Flash Builder as
your editor
though. Just create an "ActionScript" or "Flash Professional"
project.
If you're just looking for ActionScript generative art, I'm fairly
partial
to http://levitated.net/
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Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art???
Gerry Beauregard wrote: Hi Jim, I see no reason why Flex can't be used for interactive artwork. The Canvas component in Flex is derived from Sprite, so anything that you would do in a Sprite can be done in a Canvas. Except that for simply drawing shapes, the Shape class is a better choice. No framework, no container, just drawing. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art???
Hi Jim,
I see no reason why Flex can't be used for interactive artwork. The Canvas
component in Flex is derived from Sprite, so anything that you would do in a
Sprite can be done in a Canvas.
We've been using FlexBuilder 3 for development of everything at
www.sonoport.com. (I haven't upgraded to Flash Builder 4 yet). While we don't
do generative visual art, some of what we do is pretty CPU-intensive, e.g. our
time-stretcher/pitch-shifting (http://labs.sonoport.com/audiostretch/).
We build a lot of the core audio processing stuff that's common across many of
projects as SWCs ("Flex Library Project") in FlexBuilder. We then use use
those SWCs either in "Flex Projects" or "ActionScript Projects". Either way,
we get a SWF, and the performance of all the audio stuff is the same.
In our case, the choice of whether to use the "Flex Project" or "ActionScript
Project" option is mainly dependent on whether we want to use all the controls
that Flex provides, along with the convenience of the "Design" mode that makes
it super-easy to specify the layout of those controls.
There is a bit of extra size overhead if you go with Flex. A new "Flex
Project" with no additional controls results in a 176KB swf (when you export a
release build) , whereas an "ActionScript Project" is just 4KB.
Cheers,
-Gerry
The overhead
On 2010-06-11 , at 03:46 , Jim Andrews wrote:
> I'm a bit confused as to how to proceed with Flash. I've been using Director
> for the last 11 years.
>
> You can see the sort of (Director Shockwave) apps I like to create at
> http://vispo.com/dbcinema/sw/sw.htm and http://vispo.com/jig/arteroids/exe .
> These apps contain menus, spin controls, drop-down menus, and similar types
> of controls, and generally lots of them. But they also contain, in the case
> of http://vispo.com/dbcinema/sw/sw.htm , high-performance generative art.
> They're both very 'interactive interface' oriented and also very
> high-performance-art-oriented. Windowing, menuing, dialog boxes, and
> interactive controls are important to them. But so is lots of room for the
> art.
>
> I don't really care about filesize being bulked up by Flex. High speed access
> is common, these days. But if Flex is slow in performance, that's the more
> important thing, to me. Is it? How is it in terms of speed?
>
> How would you approach making the above sorts of apps in Flash? Would you
> create them as ActionScript projects or would you use Flex?
>
> ja
> http://vispo.com
>
> - Original Message - From: "Jer Brand"
> To: "Flash Coders List"
> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art???
>
>
>> Flex is for RIA's and helps you with layouts and common controls and doesn't
>> really provide anything useful for generating art with either vectors or
>> drawing to a sprite. With the framework itself bulking up the size of your
>> swf and consuming additional resources, it's not really a good thing.
>>
>> The generative art I typically use straight ActionScript with a library of
>> choice -- Hype (http://www.hypeframework.org/) being particularly awesome
>> for that kinda thing.
>>
>> There's nothing stopping you from using Flex / Flash Builder as your editor
>> though. Just create an "ActionScript" or "Flash Professional" project.
>>
>> If you're just looking for ActionScript generative art, I'm fairly partial
>> to http://levitated.net/
>
> ___
> Flashcoders mailing list
> Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
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Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art???
ve controls are important to them. But so is lots of room for the >> art. >> >> I don't really care about filesize being bulked up by Flex. High speed >> access is common, these days. But if Flex is slow in performance, that's the >> more important thing, to me. Is it? How is it in terms of speed? >> >> How would you approach making the above sorts of apps in Flash? Would you >> create them as ActionScript projects or would you use Flex? >> >> ja >> http://vispo.com >> >> - Original Message - From: "Jer Brand" >> To: "Flash Coders List" >> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art??? >> >> >>> Flex is for RIA's and helps you with layouts and common controls and doesn't >>> really provide anything useful for generating art with either vectors or >>> drawing to a sprite. With the framework itself bulking up the size of your >>> swf and consuming additional resources, it's not really a good thing. >>> >>> The generative art I typically use straight ActionScript with a library of >>> choice -- Hype (http://www.hypeframework.org/) being particularly awesome >>> for that kinda thing. >>> >>> There's nothing stopping you from using Flex / Flash Builder as your editor >>> though. Just create an "ActionScript" or "Flash Professional" project. >>> >>> If you're just looking for ActionScript generative art, I'm fairly partial >>> to http://levitated.net/ >> >> ___ >> Flashcoders mailing list >> Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com >> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders >> > ___ > Flashcoders mailing list > Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com > http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art???
Hi, I have not done much generative stuff with Flash for a long time, but I can see what you are trying to acheive... I guess you are looking for simple controls that let you control parameters for drawing stuff on your canvas? Whether you use Flash or Flex for your components - you have choices - the end result is the SWF and the bottleneck will probably be in your code that draws the result onto the stage. Look at the "components" you can use in the Flash and Flex IDE's Flex has more stuff, but I reckon you could create your dbCinema app in either Flex or Flash - using the components wired up to control your parameters... As a crude example of using components with AS2 in Flash - http://glenpike.co.uk/play/cerebral2.html - you can probably still do the same in AS3 / Flash with the component set. The code was not optimised, just experimental. There are lots of blogs and ideas out there about optimising Flash code for "intensive" operations - that's going to be your nemesis if anything. Read blogs by people like Grant Skinner, Ralph Hauwert, Quasimondo (Mario Klingemann), Joa Ebert, Andre Michelle, Branden Hall - all worth looking at for their experiments and lessons in "coding interesting stuff as fast as possible". For example, start with some of these and also look through their other stuff, follow links from and to these pages: http://webr3.org/blog/haxe/flash-10-massive-amounts-of-3d-particles-with-haxe/ http://www.gskinner.com/talks/quick/ http://www.quasimondo.com/ http://blog.joa-ebert.com/ http://blog.andre-michelle.com/category/actionscript/ http://www.hypeframework.org/blog/content/hype-gets-a-new-domain/ The above is not an endless list of people - just a starter for direction in pushing pixels fast... Nicolas Cannasse, Joa Ebert and other people have done some serious work with leveraging Flash to do heavyweight maths faster using different methods - look at the first link... If you are into writing your own DSP style code, look at Pixel Bender which utilises CPU / GPU resources to do calculations. Look into Alchemy (Adobe Labs?) for leveraging API's or writing your own code (maybe with some C/C++) that can be loaded as a SWF at runtime. For inspiration - there is tons of stuff out there - dammit I lost my bookmarks for these a while ago... Jared Tarbell is worth mentioning again along with Robert Hodgin off the top of my head - both of these guys used Flash a lot, but then also use Processing - I reckon it is possible to look at their work and see if you can do similar / the same with Flash, although Robert mentioned his frustration (FOTB 2008) at not being able to get the performance / flexibility with Flash that he could with Processing. Joshua Davis' Hype framework (someone mentioned) is worth looking at in the context of his work as he has given away code (in conjunction with Branden Hall) to allow people to start experimenting in a similar / same way as he does his own work (I guess / speculate on the last bit). 1000's of other people out there, guess you have to google a bit - if you find some good links to stuff, please post back as I lost mine... Hope this helps a bit, but I reckon you can do it and you are not as limited as you once were with new features in Flash - translate Hobnox's 1D processing power to 2D - Aviary, Flashfilterlab, etc. Anyway, just experiment - if you have the time, I am jealous. Maybe I should be playing instead of writing these emails ;) Most of all have fun and let us know what you come up with... Glen Jim Andrews wrote: I'm a bit confused as to how to proceed with Flash. I've been using Director for the last 11 years. You can see the sort of (Director Shockwave) apps I like to create at http://vispo.com/dbcinema/sw/sw.htm and http://vispo.com/jig/arteroids/exe . These apps contain menus, spin controls, drop-down menus, and similar types of controls, and generally lots of them. But they also contain, in the case of http://vispo.com/dbcinema/sw/sw.htm , high-performance generative art. They're both very 'interactive interface' oriented and also very high-performance-art-oriented. Windowing, menuing, dialog boxes, and interactive controls are important to them. But so is lots of room for the art. I don't really care about filesize being bulked up by Flex. High speed access is common, these days. But if Flex is slow in performance, that's the more important thing, to me. Is it? How is it in terms of speed? How would you approach making the above sorts of apps in Flash? Would you create them as ActionScript projects or would you use Flex? ja http://vispo.com - Original Message ----- From: "Jer Brand" To: "Flash Coders List" Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcod
Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art???
I'm a bit confused as to how to proceed with Flash. I've been using Director for the last 11 years. You can see the sort of (Director Shockwave) apps I like to create at http://vispo.com/dbcinema/sw/sw.htm and http://vispo.com/jig/arteroids/exe . These apps contain menus, spin controls, drop-down menus, and similar types of controls, and generally lots of them. But they also contain, in the case of http://vispo.com/dbcinema/sw/sw.htm , high-performance generative art. They're both very 'interactive interface' oriented and also very high-performance-art-oriented. Windowing, menuing, dialog boxes, and interactive controls are important to them. But so is lots of room for the art. I don't really care about filesize being bulked up by Flex. High speed access is common, these days. But if Flex is slow in performance, that's the more important thing, to me. Is it? How is it in terms of speed? How would you approach making the above sorts of apps in Flash? Would you create them as ActionScript projects or would you use Flex? ja http://vispo.com - Original Message - From: "Jer Brand" To: "Flash Coders List" Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art??? Flex is for RIA's and helps you with layouts and common controls and doesn't really provide anything useful for generating art with either vectors or drawing to a sprite. With the framework itself bulking up the size of your swf and consuming additional resources, it's not really a good thing. The generative art I typically use straight ActionScript with a library of choice -- Hype (http://www.hypeframework.org/) being particularly awesome for that kinda thing. There's nothing stopping you from using Flex / Flash Builder as your editor though. Just create an "ActionScript" or "Flash Professional" project. If you're just looking for ActionScript generative art, I'm fairly partial to http://levitated.net/ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art???
Have you seen http://www.minimalcomps.com/ ? They're just controls, so no layout assistance, but they're very handy and much more lightweight than the flex controls. Piers On 10 Jun 2010, at 20:46, Jim Andrews wrote: > I'm a bit confused as to how to proceed with Flash. I've been using Director > for the last 11 years. > > You can see the sort of (Director Shockwave) apps I like to create at > http://vispo.com/dbcinema/sw/sw.htm and http://vispo.com/jig/arteroids/exe . > These apps contain menus, spin controls, drop-down menus, and similar types > of controls, and generally lots of them. But they also contain, in the case > of http://vispo.com/dbcinema/sw/sw.htm , high-performance generative art. > They're both very 'interactive interface' oriented and also very > high-performance-art-oriented. Windowing, menuing, dialog boxes, and > interactive controls are important to them. But so is lots of room for the > art. > > I don't really care about filesize being bulked up by Flex. High speed access > is common, these days. But if Flex is slow in performance, that's the more > important thing, to me. Is it? How is it in terms of speed? > > How would you approach making the above sorts of apps in Flash? Would you > create them as ActionScript projects or would you use Flex? > > ja > http://vispo.com > > - Original Message ----- From: "Jer Brand" > To: "Flash Coders List" > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:03 PM > Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art??? > > >> Flex is for RIA's and helps you with layouts and common controls and doesn't >> really provide anything useful for generating art with either vectors or >> drawing to a sprite. With the framework itself bulking up the size of your >> swf and consuming additional resources, it's not really a good thing. >> >> The generative art I typically use straight ActionScript with a library of >> choice -- Hype (http://www.hypeframework.org/) being particularly awesome >> for that kinda thing. >> >> There's nothing stopping you from using Flex / Flash Builder as your editor >> though. Just create an "ActionScript" or "Flash Professional" project. >> >> If you're just looking for ActionScript generative art, I'm fairly partial >> to http://levitated.net/ > > ___ > Flashcoders mailing list > Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com > http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Flex generative art???
Flex is for RIA's and helps you with layouts and common controls and doesn't really provide anything useful for generating art with either vectors or drawing to a sprite. With the framework itself bulking up the size of your swf and consuming additional resources, it's not really a good thing. The generative art I typically use straight ActionScript with a library of choice -- Hype (http://www.hypeframework.org/) being particularly awesome for that kinda thing. There's nothing stopping you from using Flex / Flash Builder as your editor though. Just create an "ActionScript" or "Flash Professional" project. If you're just looking for ActionScript generative art, I'm fairly partial to http://levitated.net/ On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > Can anyone point out to me any interesting art projects that are Flex > projects? Particularly what I'm looking for are simple projects that combine > some of the benefits of Flex with the benefits of Flash concerning > generative visual art. > > It's looking too much like a no fun zone at the mo. Any spice out there? > Any fun? Is it all corporate solutions? > > ja? > http://vispo.com > > > ___ > Flashcoders mailing list > Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com > http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders > ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
