[Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Colleagues, I have been running JT65A using the JT65-HF software for the past month or so with good results (several hundred contacts with at least half DX). I have a Flex-5000 and I am running PowerSDR 2.2.3 under Windows 7/32. I have set my Drive control to 100 and have adjusted the VAC TX gain for an ALC reading of -3 dB (-6 on the slider control). With these settings I get from 25 to 30 watts out, depending upon the band. This power output is adequate for JT-65A, but what if I wanted to run more power? The only way that I can get my power output into the 100 watt range is to do so by increasing the VAC TX gain to a value of at least 0 and then the ALC is up to +3 dB, which probably would create splatter all over the slice of spectrum set aside for JT65A. Also, any other suggestions for DSP or other settings that would optimize J65A operation with PowerSDR would be appreciated. Thanks, Ed, K0KC ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Ed, Are you serious? Understand that JT65 is a WEAK signal mode; one the biggest problems is people running far too much power and causing de-sensing. Please do a little research on this mode before proceeding; and try running 5 Watts. I don't mean to be snippy but... 73, ~~Guy, W6NJX -- ~~~*Guy Harris* God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.-- Voltaire ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Guy, I do not think that I de-sense anyone's receive capability with my 25 watts and indoor antennas. I typically get signal reports of -15 dB and I do not believe that I have ever received one better than -09 dB. I only asked the question because I was curious as to why I could not increase my power beyond about 25-30 watts without invoking the ALC. I did not intend to run more power when using this mode as I am well aware of the problems too much power output can cause, including splatter when people let their ALC take over. I do not take your comments as being snippy, but I do not think we should pursue this topic on the Flex lists. Ed, K0KC From: Guy Harris w6...@guysfreehold.com To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed, Are you serious? Understand that JT65 is a WEAK signal mode; one the biggest problems is people running far too much power and causing de-sensing. Please do a little research on this mode before proceeding; and try running 5 Watts. I don't mean to be snippy but... 73, ~~Guy, W6NJX -- ~~~*Guy Harris* God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.-- Voltaire ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Ed, I run JT65 all the time with 5 watts of power. I worked JT1 last night which was Mongolia. Turn down your power and have fun.. The most you may need is 20-25 watts. Scott KQ8RP -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Ed Wilson Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:50 AM To: Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Colleagues, I have been running JT65A using the JT65-HF software for the past month or so with good results (several hundred contacts with at least half DX). I have a Flex-5000 and I am running PowerSDR 2.2.3 under Windows 7/32. I have set my Drive control to 100 and have adjusted the VAC TX gain for an ALC reading of -3 dB (-6 on the slider control). With these settings I get from 25 to 30 watts out, depending upon the band. This power output is adequate for JT-65A, but what if I wanted to run more power? The only way that I can get my power output into the 100 watt range is to do so by increasing the VAC TX gain to a value of at least 0 and then the ALC is up to +3 dB, which probably would create splatter all over the slice of spectrum set aside for JT65A. Also, any other suggestions for DSP or other settings that would optimize J65A operation with PowerSDR would be appreciated. Thanks, Ed, K0KC ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Guy Harris w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Ed, Are you serious? Understand that JT65 is a WEAK signal mode; one the biggest problems is people running far too much power and causing de-sensing. Desense is overload (compression). You need a lot of signal to cause desense, even in poorly-designed older radios. A distant station running even up to 100W is not likely to be causing desense. This is not a problem. I think that what you are alluding to is people running filters that are too wide, usually rigs using SSB filters for narrow modes like CW, PSK31, and JT-65. In that case the unwanted signal is in the normal passband of the receiver and activating the AGC. The AGC cannot differentiate between the desired signal and the undesired signal in the passband. It just takes total power in the passband and uses that to modulate the AGC. There is no brain in the radio to be able to recognize which signal you want and which one you don't want. The only solution is to narrow the filter to match the desired signal and let the undesired signal fall outside the passband. Fortunately that is easy to do with the Flex radios and much harder with others. Maybe someday we will have the CODEC integrated with the rest of the radio so that the CODEC uses the level of the actual desired signal to control the AGC instead of just power in the passband. Until then, there is no choice but to narrow the filters to just pass the desired signal. Please do a little research on this mode before proceeding; and try running 5 Watts. While it is always a good idea to run the minimum power necessary to make a contact, that minimum power may turn out to be 100W or even 1500W, not 5W. It is what it is and there is no arbitrary number you can place on it. OTOH, if JT65 is reporting that your signal is +10dB, then you can probably get away with dialing down the power and still maintaining the contact. The only problem with that is that you don't know what the power was until after your first exchange, at which time the contact is over! Oh well. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Ed Have you tried to get higher power with other digital modes ? I can get 60+ watts out on PSK with Drive at 100, ALC level of -3 with level slider -1 . Are you certain your xmit filter is not attenuating the output.. have you tested with a dummy load ? Dave -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Ed Wilson Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:50 AM To: Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Colleagues, I have been running JT65A using the JT65-HF software for the past month or so with good results (several hundred contacts with at least half DX). I have a Flex-5000 and I am running PowerSDR 2.2.3 under Windows 7/32. I have set my Drive control to 100 and have adjusted the VAC TX gain for an ALC reading of -3 dB (-6 on the slider control). With these settings I get from 25 to 30 watts out, depending upon the band. This power output is adequate for JT-65A, but what if I wanted to run more power? The only way that I can get my power output into the 100 watt range is to do so by increasing the VAC TX gain to a value of at least 0 and then the ALC is up to +3 dB, which probably would create splatter all over the slice of spectrum set aside for JT65A. Also, any other suggestions for DSP or other settings that would optimize J65A operation with PowerSDR would be appreciated. Thanks, Ed, K0KC ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Or run higher power on 160m and open some paths not normally useable. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 20, 2011, at 11:29 AM, Guy Harris w6...@guysfreehold.com wrote: Ed, Are you serious? Understand that JT65 is a WEAK signal mode; one the biggest problems is people running far too much power and causing de-sensing. Please do a little research on this mode before proceeding; and try running 5 Watts. I don't mean to be snippy but... 73, ~~Guy, W6NJX -- ~~~*Guy Harris* God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.-- Voltaire ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Dave, Thanks for the hints. First of all, the dummy load does not make any difference compared to the antenna since the VSWR is essentially 1:1 with the antenna. I did try PSK31 using DM780 and I was able to obtain about 50 watts output with the ALC reading -3 dB...I believe that I moved the slider up to -3 to obtain this reading. My transmit filter is 0 to 3K, so I do not think that should be a problem. Ed, K0KC From: Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:23 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed Have you tried to get higher power with other digital modes ? I can get 60+ watts out on PSK with Drive at 100, ALC level of -3 with level slider -1 . Are you certain your xmit filter is not attenuating the output.. have you tested with a dummy load ? Dave -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Ed Wilson Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:50 AM To: Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Colleagues, I have been running JT65A using the JT65-HF software for the past month or so with good results (several hundred contacts with at least half DX). I have a Flex-5000 and I am running PowerSDR 2.2.3 under Windows 7/32. I have set my Drive control to 100 and have adjusted the VAC TX gain for an ALC reading of -3 dB (-6 on the slider control). With these settings I get from 25 to 30 watts out, depending upon the band. This power output is adequate for JT-65A, but what if I wanted to run more power? The only way that I can get my power output into the 100 watt range is to do so by increasing the VAC TX gain to a value of at least 0 and then the ALC is up to +3 dB, which probably would create splatter all over the slice of spectrum set aside for JT65A. Also, any other suggestions for DSP or other settings that would optimize J65A operation with PowerSDR would be appreciated. Thanks, Ed, K0KC ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Put the radio in DIGITAL mode, upper probably and ALC should not be a problem. This is why we did the mode. If you are already in digital mode, let me know Bob N4HY Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE Phone -Original message- From: Ed Wilson ed.wil...@ymail.com To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz flexradio@flex-radio.biz, flexra...@yahoogroups.com flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2011 16:01:51 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Guy, I do not think that I de-sense anyone's receive capability with my 25 watts and indoor antennas. I typically get signal reports of -15 dB and I do not believe that I have ever received one better than -09 dB. I only asked the question because I was curious as to why I could not increase my power beyond about 25-30 watts without invoking the ALC. I did not intend to run more power when using this mode as I am well aware of the problems too much power output can cause, including splatter when people let their ALC take over. I do not take your comments as being snippy, but I do not think we should pursue this topic on the Flex lists. Ed, K0KC From: Guy Harris w6...@guysfreehold.com To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed, Are you serious? Understand that JT65 is a WEAK signal mode; one the biggest problems is people running far too much power and causing de-sensing. Please do a little research on this mode before proceeding; and try running 5 Watts. I don't mean to be snippy but... 73, ~~Guy, W6NJX -- ~~~*Guy Harris* God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.-- Voltaire ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Bob, I do use DIGU for my JT65A work. Ed, K0KC From: Bob McGwier n...@flex-radio.com To: Ed Wilson ed.wil...@ymail.com; flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Put the radio in DIGITAL mode, upper probably and ALC should not be a problem. This is why we did the mode. If you are already in digital mode, let me know Bob N4HY Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE Phone -Original message- From: Ed Wilson ed.wil...@ymail.com To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz flexradio@flex-radio.biz, flexra...@yahoogroups.com flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2011 16:01:51 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Guy, I do not think that I de-sense anyone's receive capability with my 25 watts and indoor antennas. I typically get signal reports of -15 dB and I do not believe that I have ever received one better than -09 dB. I only asked the question because I was curious as to why I could not increase my power beyond about 25-30 watts without invoking the ALC. I did not intend to run more power when using this mode as I am well aware of the problems too much power output can cause, including splatter when people let their ALC take over. I do not take your comments as being snippy, but I do not think we should pursue this topic on the Flex lists. Ed, K0KC From: Guy Harris To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed, Are you serious? Understand that JT65 is a WEAK signal mode; one the biggest problems is people running far too much power and causing de-sensing. Please do a little research on this mode before proceeding; and try running 5 Watts. I don't mean to be snippy but... 73, ~~Guy, W6NJX -- ~~~*Guy Harris* God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.-- Voltaire ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Ed, If you setup a custom TX filter, mine is 1000Hz low and 1800Hz high, you will get more power out with the VAC TX slider set a lot lower than what you are running. The only problem with doing it that way is you can't have TX=RX offset turned on in JT65-HF, if a station is -400 from you then you just dial the RADIO down to match. Take your choice, a lot of the operating on JT65 is still locked in to the way PSK ops play.wide filters, click and go and it's not always the best way. There's a bunch of radios out there stuck on 14070 :) Oh and Brian is right JT65 is a weak signal mode not a low power mode. If it was a low power mode the EME guys would all be running 5 watts. Use the power needed to hit an RB in your target area with a reasonable signal, the rest of us can always slide our passbands to eliminate a really loud signalyou gotta think outside the PSK box :) Ron K0IDT - Original Message - From: Ed Wilson ed.wil...@ymail.com To: Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Dave, Thanks for the hints. First of all, the dummy load does not make any difference compared to the antenna since the VSWR is essentially 1:1 with the antenna. I did try PSK31 using DM780 and I was able to obtain about 50 watts output with the ALC reading -3 dB...I believe that I moved the slider up to -3 to obtain this reading. My transmit filter is 0 to 3K, so I do not think that should be a problem. Ed, K0KC From: Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:23 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed Have you tried to get higher power with other digital modes ? I can get 60+ watts out on PSK with Drive at 100, ALC level of -3 with level slider -1 . Are you certain your xmit filter is not attenuating the output.. have you tested with a dummy load ? Dave -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Ed Wilson Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:50 AM To: Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Colleagues, I have been running JT65A using the JT65-HF software for the past month or so with good results (several hundred contacts with at least half DX). I have a Flex-5000 and I am running PowerSDR 2.2.3 under Windows 7/32. I have set my Drive control to 100 and have adjusted the VAC TX gain for an ALC reading of -3 dB (-6 on the slider control). With these settings I get from 25 to 30 watts out, depending upon the band. This power output is adequate for JT-65A, but what if I wanted to run more power? The only way that I can get my power output into the 100 watt range is to do so by increasing the VAC TX gain to a value of at least 0 and then the ALC is up to +3 dB, which probably would create splatter all over the slice of spectrum set aside for JT65A. Also, any other suggestions for DSP or other settings that would optimize J65A operation with PowerSDR would be appreciated. Thanks, Ed, K0KC ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Ron, Thanks for the comments! I am one of those guys who really likes the click-n-go capability of JT65A. I have enough difficulty remembering to mouse click in the twelve (or fewer) seconds that I have before the next minute starts. If I had to also move the radio filter, I might have trouble getting it all done unless I really concentrated. Actually, I have done fine with the 25 watts or so that I am getting now. I was just curious as to why I could not get more power out before the ALC cut in. I have used the new tunable notch filter to wipe out some really strong signals, but it might be easier to move the passband filter, especially if the offending signals were near the edge of the 2 KHz JT65A slice of spectrum...I will try that. Ed, K0KC From: Ron Kolarik rkola...@neb.rr.com To: Ed Wilson ed.wil...@ymail.com; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed, If you setup a custom TX filter, mine is 1000Hz low and 1800Hz high, you will get more power out with the VAC TX slider set a lot lower than what you are running. The only problem with doing it that way is you can't have TX=RX offset turned on in JT65-HF, if a station is -400 from you then you just dial the RADIO down to match. Take your choice, a lot of the operating on JT65 is still locked in to the way PSK ops play.wide filters, click and go and it's not always the best way. There's a bunch of radios out there stuck on 14070 :) Oh and Brian is right JT65 is a weak signal mode not a low power mode. If it was a low power mode the EME guys would all be running 5 watts. Use the power needed to hit an RB in your target area with a reasonable signal, the rest of us can always slide our passbands to eliminate a really loud signalyou gotta think outside the PSK box :) Ron K0IDT - Original Message - From: Ed Wilson ed.wil...@ymail.com To: Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Dave, Thanks for the hints. First of all, the dummy load does not make any difference compared to the antenna since the VSWR is essentially 1:1 with the antenna. I did try PSK31 using DM780 and I was able to obtain about 50 watts output with the ALC reading -3 dB...I believe that I moved the slider up to -3 to obtain this reading. My transmit filter is 0 to 3K, so I do not think that should be a problem. Ed, K0KC From: Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:23 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed Have you tried to get higher power with other digital modes ? I can get 60+ watts out on PSK with Drive at 100, ALC level of -3 with level slider -1 . Are you certain your xmit filter is not attenuating the output.. have you tested with a dummy load ? Dave -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Ed Wilson Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:50 AM To: Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Colleagues, I have been running JT65A using the JT65-HF software for the past month or so with good results (several hundred contacts with at least half DX). I have a Flex-5000 and I am running PowerSDR 2.2.3 under Windows 7/32. I have set my Drive control to 100 and have adjusted the VAC TX gain for an ALC reading of -3 dB (-6 on the slider control). With these settings I get from 25 to 30 watts out, depending upon the band. This power output is adequate for JT-65A, but what if I wanted to run more power? The only way that I can get my power output into the 100 watt range is to do so by increasing the VAC TX gain to a value of at least 0 and then the ALC is up to +3 dB, which probably would create splatter all over the slice of spectrum set aside for JT65A. Also, any other suggestions for DSP or other settings that would optimize J65A operation with PowerSDR would be appreciated. Thanks, Ed, K0KC ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Ed When I get a chance later today Ill see the max power I can get out of JT65 alc -3 drive slider 100 into a dummy load. Have you tested your max power out hitting TUN and running Drive to 100 ? Maybe your overall output power is low. Dave From: Ed Wilson [mailto:ed.wil...@ymail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:39 AM To: Dave Beumer WØDHB; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Dave, Thanks for the hints. First of all, the dummy load does not make any difference compared to the antenna since the VSWR is essentially 1:1 with the antenna. I did try PSK31 using DM780 and I was able to obtain about 50 watts output with the ALC reading -3 dB...I believe that I moved the slider up to -3 to obtain this reading. My transmit filter is 0 to 3K, so I do not think that should be a problem. Ed, K0KC _ From: Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:23 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed Have you tried to get higher power with other digital modes ? I can get 60+ watts out on PSK with Drive at 100, ALC level of -3 with level slider -1 . Are you certain your xmit filter is not attenuating the output.. have you tested with a dummy load ? Dave -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Ed Wilson Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:50 AM To: Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Colleagues, I have been running JT65A using the JT65-HF software for the past month or so with good results (several hundred contacts with at least half DX). I have a Flex-5000 and I am running PowerSDR 2.2.3 under Windows 7/32. I have set my Drive control to 100 and have adjusted the VAC TX gain for an ALC reading of -3 dB (-6 on the slider control). With these settings I get from 25 to 30 watts out, depending upon the band. This power output is adequate for JT-65A, but what if I wanted to run more power? The only way that I can get my power output into the 100 watt range is to do so by increasing the VAC TX gain to a value of at least 0 and then the ALC is up to +3 dB, which probably would create splatter all over the slice of spectrum set aside for JT65A. Also, any other suggestions for DSP or other settings that would optimize J65A operation with PowerSDR would be appreciated. Thanks, Ed, K0KC ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Dave, I can get 100 watts out in the tune mode (and CW when I use that mode). Ed, K0KC From: Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 2:48 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed When I get a chance later today I’ll see the max power I can get out of JT65 alc -3 drive slider 100 into a dummy load. Have you tested your max power out hitting “TUN” and running Drive to 100 ? Maybe your overall output power is low. Dave From:Ed Wilson [mailto:ed.wil...@ymail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:39 AM To: Dave Beumer WØDHB; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Dave, Thanks for the hints. First of all, the dummy load does not make any difference compared to the antenna since the VSWR is essentially 1:1 with the antenna. I did try PSK31 using DM780 and I was able to obtain about 50 watts output with the ALC reading -3 dB...I believe that I moved the slider up to -3 to obtain this reading. My transmit filter is 0 to 3K, so I do not think that should be a problem. Ed, K0KC From:Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:23 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed Have you tried to get higher power with other digital modes ? I can get 60+ watts out on PSK with Drive at 100, ALC level of -3 with level slider -1 . Are you certain your xmit filter is not attenuating the output.. have you tested with a dummy load ? Dave -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Ed Wilson Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:50 AM To: Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Colleagues, I have been running JT65A using the JT65-HF software for the past month or so with good results (several hundred contacts with at least half DX). I have a Flex-5000 and I am running PowerSDR 2.2.3 under Windows 7/32. I have set my Drive control to 100 and have adjusted the VAC TX gain for an ALC reading of -3 dB (-6 on the slider control). With these settings I get from 25 to 30 watts out, depending upon the band. This power output is adequate for JT-65A, but what if I wanted to run more power? The only way that I can get my power output into the 100 watt range is to do so by increasing the VAC TX gain to a value of at least 0 and then the ALC is up to +3 dB, which probably would create splatter all over the slice of spectrum set aside for JT65A. Also, any other suggestions for DSP or other settings that would optimize J65A operation with PowerSDR would be appreciated. Thanks, Ed, K0KC ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Your PA is fine. The amount of drive is dependent on the AF gain being fed from the digital mode program. If it is not putting out 0 dB, then a VAC TX gain setting of 0 dB will not produce very near 100 watts PEP with a tone. You ALWAYS want to use DIGx modes for digital mode operation because it bypasses all of the voice signal processing (EQ, compander, leveler) that can adversely effect the AF generated by the digital mode program. You also NEVER want to exceed 0 dB on ALC, as this is clipping the DSP and that is never good for digital modes. I never exceed -1 dB to allow for some headroom. With Fldigi, I get 90W out on PSK31 with the VAC TX Gain = 0 Tim Ellison On 10/20/2011 3:27 PM, Ed Wilson wrote: Dave, I can get 100 watts out in the tune mode (and CW when I use that mode). Ed, K0KC From: Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net mailto:dave%40w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com mailto:ed.wilson%40ymail.com; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz mailto:Flexradio%40flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com mailto:FlexRadio%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 2:48 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed When I get a chance later today I’ll see the max power I can get out of JT65 alc -3 drive slider 100 into a dummy load. Have you tested your max power out hitting “TUN” and running Drive to 100 ? Maybe your overall output power is low. Dave From:Ed Wilson [mailto:ed.wil...@ymail.com mailto:ed.wilson%40ymail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:39 AM To: Dave Beumer WØDHB; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz mailto:Flexradio%40flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com mailto:FlexRadio%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Dave, Thanks for the hints. First of all, the dummy load does not make any difference compared to the antenna since the VSWR is essentially 1:1 with the antenna. I did try PSK31 using DM780 and I was able to obtain about 50 watts output with the ALC reading -3 dB...I believe that I moved the slider up to -3 to obtain this reading. My transmit filter is 0 to 3K, so I do not think that should be a problem. Ed, K0KC From:Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net mailto:dave%40w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com mailto:ed.wilson%40ymail.com; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz mailto:Flexradio%40flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com mailto:FlexRadio%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:23 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed Have you tried to get higher power with other digital modes ? I can get 60+ watts out on PSK with Drive at 100, ALC level of -3 with level slider -1 . Are you certain your xmit filter is not attenuating the output.. have you tested with a dummy load ? Dave -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz mailto:flexradio-bounces%40flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz mailto:flexradio-bounces%40flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Ed Wilson Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:50 AM To: Flexradio@flex-radio.biz mailto:Flexradio%40flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com mailto:FlexRadio%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Colleagues, I have been running JT65A using the JT65-HF software for the past month or so with good results (several hundred contacts with at least half DX). I have a Flex-5000 and I am running PowerSDR 2.2.3 under Windows 7/32. I have set my Drive control to 100 and have adjusted the VAC TX gain for an ALC reading of -3 dB (-6 on the slider control). With these settings I get from 25 to 30 watts out, depending upon the band. This power output is adequate for JT-65A, but what if I wanted to run more power? The only way that I can get my power output into the 100 watt range is to do so by increasing the VAC TX gain to a value of at least 0 and then the ALC is up to +3 dB, which probably would create splatter all over the slice of spectrum set aside for JT65A. Also, any other suggestions for DSP or other settings that would optimize J65A operation with PowerSDR would be appreciated. Thanks, Ed, K0KC ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz mailto:FlexRadio%40flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ Reply to sender mailto:ed.wil...@ymail.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BFlexradio%5D%20VAC%20and%20JT65-HF | Reply to group mailto:flexra...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BFlexradio%5D%20VAC%20and%20JT65-HF | Reply via web post http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FlexRadio/post;_ylc
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Ed Wilson ed.wil...@ymail.com wrote: ** Dave, I can get 100 watts out in the tune mode (and CW when I use that mode). In order to keep sidebands in check and keep emissions narrow, most of the digital modes have a significant amplitude component. (Most do at least SINc envelope shaping.) So even if the radio is adjusted to give 100W PEP with a steady carrier, the average power output with digital modes will vary from -1dB to -4dB from max carrier level. That works out to 80W down to 40W. JT65 and other mFSK modes should be around -1dB or 80W. PSK31 is typically -2dB (60W). PACTOR modes are variable but are typically around -3dB (50W) for a properly-adjusted transmitter. So, just like SSB, don't expect your average power output to be the same as your peak power output. And remember, 1dB just doesn't matter much at the receiver. So even if you can see a difference on your wattmeter, the guy on the other end isn't going to see a difference in copy or on his S-meter. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Thanks for the info, Tim. Maybe I am being too conservative with the -3 dB on the ALC, but I do not want to put out some of the garbage that I sometimes see when listening to JT-65 signals. A setting on the VAC TX gain of -1 dB would not put out anything close to 100 watts on my rigs, so apparently it a characteristic of JT65-HF. I have copied Joe Large, developer of the program, for some input (no pun intended!). Ed, K0KC From: Tim Ellison t.m.ellison...@gmail.com To: flexra...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Ed Wilson ed.wil...@ymail.com; Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz Flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Your PA is fine. The amount of drive is dependent on the AF gain being fed from the digital mode program. If it is not putting out 0 dB, then a VAC TX gain setting of 0 dB will not produce very near 100 watts PEP with a tone. You ALWAYS want to use DIGx modes for digital mode operation because it bypasses all of the voice signal processing (EQ, compander, leveler) that can adversely effect the AF generated by the digital mode program. You also NEVER want to exceed 0 dB on ALC, as this is clipping the DSP and that is never good for digital modes. I never exceed -1 dB to allow for some headroom. With Fldigi, I get 90W out on PSK31 with the VAC TX Gain = 0 Tim Ellison On 10/20/2011 3:27 PM, Ed Wilson wrote: Dave, I can get 100 watts out in the tune mode (and CW when I use that mode). Ed, K0KC From: Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 2:48 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed When I get a chance later today I’ll see the max power I can get out of JT65 alc -3 drive slider 100 into a dummy load. Have you tested your max power out hitting “TUN” and running Drive to 100 ? Maybe your overall output power is low. Dave From:Ed Wilson [mailto:ed.wil...@ymail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:39 AM To: Dave Beumer WØDHB; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Dave, Thanks for the hints. First of all, the dummy load does not make any difference compared to the antenna since the VSWR is essentially 1:1 with the antenna. I did try PSK31 using DM780 and I was able to obtain about 50 watts output with the ALC reading -3 dB...I believe that I moved the slider up to -3 to obtain this reading. My transmit filter is 0 to 3K, so I do not think that should be a problem. Ed, K0KC From:Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:23 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed Have you tried to get higher power with other digital modes ? I can get 60+ watts out on PSK with Drive at 100, ALC level of -3 with level slider -1 . Are you certain your xmit filter is not attenuating the output.. have you tested with a dummy load ? Dave -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Ed Wilson Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:50 AM To: Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Colleagues, I have been running JT65A using the JT65-HF software for the past month or so with good results (several hundred contacts with at least half DX). I have a Flex-5000 and I am running PowerSDR 2.2.3 under Windows 7/32. I have set my Drive control to 100 and have adjusted the VAC TX gain for an ALC reading of -3 dB (-6 on the slider control). With these settings I get from 25 to 30 watts out, depending upon the band. This power output is adequate for JT-65A, but what if I wanted to run more power? The only way that I can get my power output into the 100 watt range is to do so by increasing the VAC TX gain to a value of at least 0 and then the ALC is up to +3 dB, which probably would create splatter all over the slice of spectrum set aside for JT65A. Also, any other suggestions for DSP or other settings that would optimize J65A operation with PowerSDR would be appreciated. Thanks, Ed, K0KC ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Good info, Brian...thanks! Ed, K0KC From: Brian Lloyd brian-wb6...@lloyd.com To: flexra...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Flexradio@flex-radio.biz Flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Ed Wilson ed.wil...@ymail.com wrote: ** Dave, I can get 100 watts out in the tune mode (and CW when I use that mode). In order to keep sidebands in check and keep emissions narrow, most of the digital modes have a significant amplitude component. (Most do at least SINc envelope shaping.) So even if the radio is adjusted to give 100W PEP with a steady carrier, the average power output with digital modes will vary from -1dB to -4dB from max carrier level. That works out to 80W down to 40W. JT65 and other mFSK modes should be around -1dB or 80W. PSK31 is typically -2dB (60W). PACTOR modes are variable but are typically around -3dB (50W) for a properly-adjusted transmitter. So, just like SSB, don't expect your average power output to be the same as your peak power output. And remember, 1dB just doesn't matter much at the receiver. So even if you can see a difference on your wattmeter, the guy on the other end isn't going to see a difference in copy or on his S-meter. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Ed Using a transmit profile with a 250Hz wide filter centered at 1500 will help . Davt From: Ed Wilson [mailto:ed.wil...@ymail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 3:21 PM To: Tim Ellison; flexra...@yahoogroups.com; w6...@w6cqz.org Cc: Dave Beumer WØDHB; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Thanks for the info, Tim. Maybe I am being too conservative with the -3 dB on the ALC, but I do not want to put out some of the garbage that I sometimes see when listening to JT-65 signals. A setting on the VAC TX gain of -1 dB would not put out anything close to 100 watts on my rigs, so apparently it a characteristic of JT65-HF. I have copied Joe Large, developer of the program, for some input (no pun intended!). Ed, K0KC _ From: Tim Ellison t.m.ellison...@gmail.com To: flexra...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Ed Wilson ed.wil...@ymail.com; Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz Flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Your PA is fine. The amount of drive is dependent on the AF gain being fed from the digital mode program. If it is not putting out 0 dB, then a VAC TX gain setting of 0 dB will not produce very near 100 watts PEP with a tone. You ALWAYS want to use DIGx modes for digital mode operation because it bypasses all of the voice signal processing (EQ, compander, leveler) that can adversely effect the AF generated by the digital mode program. You also NEVER want to exceed 0 dB on ALC, as this is clipping the DSP and that is never good for digital modes. I never exceed -1 dB to allow for some headroom. With Fldigi, I get 90W out on PSK31 with the VAC TX Gain = 0 Tim Ellison On 10/20/2011 3:27 PM, Ed Wilson wrote: Dave, I can get 100 watts out in the tune mode (and CW when I use that mode). Ed, K0KC From: Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net mailto:dave%40w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com mailto:ed.wilson%40ymail.com ; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz mailto:Flexradio%40flex-radio.biz ; flexra...@yahoogroups.com mailto:FlexRadio%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 2:48 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed When I get a chance later today I’ll see the max power I can get out of JT65 alc -3 drive slider 100 into a dummy load. Have you tested your max power out hitting “TUN” and running Drive to 100 ? Maybe your overall output power is low. Dave From:Ed Wilson [mailto:ed.wil...@ymail.com mailto:ed.wilson%40ymail.com ] Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:39 AM To: Dave Beumer WØDHB; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz mailto:Flexradio%40flex-radio.biz ; flexra...@yahoogroups.com mailto:FlexRadio%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Dave, Thanks for the hints. First of all, the dummy load does not make any difference compared to the antenna since the VSWR is essentially 1:1 with the antenna. I did try PSK31 using DM780 and I was able to obtain about 50 watts output with the ALC reading -3 dB...I believe that I moved the slider up to -3 to obtain this reading. My transmit filter is 0 to 3K, so I do not think that should be a problem. Ed, K0KC From:Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net mailto:dave%40w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com mailto:ed.wilson%40ymail.com ; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz mailto:Flexradio%40flex-radio.biz ; flexra...@yahoogroups.com mailto:FlexRadio%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:23 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed Have you tried to get higher power with other digital modes ? I can get 60+ watts out on PSK with Drive at 100, ALC level of -3 with level slider -1 . Are you certain your xmit filter is not attenuating the output.. have you tested with a dummy load ? Dave -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz mailto:flexradio-bounces%40flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz mailto:flexradio-bounces%40flex-radio.biz ] On Behalf Of Ed Wilson Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:50 AM To: Flexradio@flex-radio.biz mailto:Flexradio%40flex-radio.biz ; flexra...@yahoogroups.com mailto:FlexRadio%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Colleagues, I have been running JT65A using the JT65-HF software for the past month or so with good results (several hundred contacts with at least half DX). I have a Flex-5000 and I am running PowerSDR 2.2.3 under Windows 7/32. I have set my Drive control to 100 and have adjusted the VAC TX gain for an ALC reading of -3 dB (-6 on the slider control). With these settings I get from 25 to 30 watts out, depending upon the band. This power output is adequate for JT-65A, but what if I wanted to run more power? The only way that I can get my power output into the 100 watt range is to do so by increasing the VAC TX gain to a value of at least 0 and then the ALC is up
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
Thanks, Dave! From: Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com; 'Tim Ellison' t.m.ellison...@gmail.com; flexra...@yahoogroups.com; w6...@w6cqz.org Cc: Flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 5:30 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed Using a transmit profile with a 250Hz wide filter centered at 1500 will help . Davt From:Ed Wilson [mailto:ed.wil...@ymail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 3:21 PM To: Tim Ellison; flexra...@yahoogroups.com; w6...@w6cqz.org Cc: Dave Beumer WØDHB; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Thanks for the info, Tim. Maybe I am being too conservative with the -3 dB on the ALC, but I do not want to put out some of the garbage that I sometimes see when listening to JT-65 signals. A setting on the VAC TX gain of -1 dB would not put out anything close to 100 watts on my rigs, so apparently it a characteristic of JT65-HF. I have copied Joe Large, developer of the program, for some input (no pun intended!). Ed, K0KC From:Tim Ellison t.m.ellison...@gmail.com To: flexra...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Ed Wilson ed.wil...@ymail.com; Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz Flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Your PA is fine. The amount of drive is dependent on the AF gain being fed from the digital mode program. If it is not putting out 0 dB, then a VAC TX gain setting of 0 dB will not produce very near 100 watts PEP with a tone. You ALWAYS want to use DIGx modes for digital mode operation because it bypasses all of the voice signal processing (EQ, compander, leveler) that can adversely effect the AF generated by the digital mode program. You also NEVER want to exceed 0 dB on ALC, as this is clipping the DSP and that is never good for digital modes. I never exceed -1 dB to allow for some headroom. With Fldigi, I get 90W out on PSK31 with the VAC TX Gain = 0 Tim Ellison On 10/20/2011 3:27 PM, Ed Wilson wrote: Dave, I can get 100 watts out in the tune mode (and CW when I use that mode). Ed, K0KC From: Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 2:48 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed When I get a chance later today I’ll see the max power I can get out of JT65 alc -3 drive slider 100 into a dummy load. Have you tested your max power out hitting “TUN” and running Drive to 100 ? Maybe your overall output power is low. Dave From:Ed Wilson [mailto:ed.wil...@ymail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:39 AM To: Dave Beumer WØDHB; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Dave, Thanks for the hints. First of all, the dummy load does not make any difference compared to the antenna since the VSWR is essentially 1:1 with the antenna. I did try PSK31 using DM780 and I was able to obtain about 50 watts output with the ALC reading -3 dB...I believe that I moved the slider up to -3 to obtain this reading. My transmit filter is 0 to 3K, so I do not think that should be a problem. Ed, K0KC From:Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net To: 'Ed Wilson' ed.wil...@ymail.com; Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:23 PM Subject: RE: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Ed Have you tried to get higher power with other digital modes ? I can get 60+ watts out on PSK with Drive at 100, ALC level of -3 with level slider -1 . Are you certain your xmit filter is not attenuating the output.. have you tested with a dummy load ? Dave -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Ed Wilson Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:50 AM To: Flexradio@flex-radio.biz; flexra...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF Colleagues, I have been running JT65A using the JT65-HF software for the past month or so with good results (several hundred contacts with at least half DX). I have a Flex-5000 and I am running PowerSDR 2.2.3 under Windows 7/32. I have set my Drive control to 100 and have adjusted the VAC TX gain for an ALC reading of -3 dB (-6 on the slider control). With these settings I get from 25 to 30 watts out, depending upon the band. This power output is adequate for JT-65A, but what if I wanted to run more power? The only way that I can get my power output into the 100 watt range is to do so by increasing the VAC TX gain to a value of at least 0 and then the ALC is up to +3 dB, which probably would create splatter all over the slice of spectrum set aside for JT65A. Also, any other suggestions for DSP or other settings that would optimize J65A operation
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Dave Beumer WØDHB d...@w0dhb.net wrote: Ed Using a transmit profile with a 250Hz wide filter centered at 1500 will help . Well, actually, it won't. The only reason to run a narrower TX filter is if the signal being presented to the transmitter already has too much THD or IMD. With the flex radios that is not the case because the digital mode program is sending the signal in digital form to PowerSDR via VAC. Since it never gets converted to analog, there just isn't a need to narrow the TX filter. Now it is possible, if some program along the way (VAC or PSDR) has to do sample rate conversion, to get some artifacts in there but usually they are at least 60dB down. (In my case they were almost 80dB down.) Yeah, you can see them on the pan display but I can almost guarantee you that no one is going to hear them and they certainly aren't going to show up on the wattmeter. So, narrowing your TX filter might make you feel good but it doesn't really have any effect on the quality of your signal. And if you think you are reducing IMD, the bulk of the IMD is created in the PA just prior to reaching the antenna. Nothing you do with the TX filter is going to change that. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 br...@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] VAC and JT65-HF
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Ed Wilson ed.wil...@ymail.com wrote: Thanks for the info, Tim. I do not want to put out some of the garbage that I sometimes see JT65 is not PSK,and differs from it in many ways. The program is extremely thoroughly documented and the info there is correct, and well worth the read. Here is a quote from the JT65 manual: WSJT generates a single-frequency sine wave at any instant while transmitting. Except during station identification, there is no “key up” time; signal amplitude is constant, and one tone changes to the next one in a phase-continuous manner. As a result, WSJT does not require a high degree of linearity in your power amplifier. You can use a class C amplifier without generating unwanted sidebands or splatter. In other words, only one frequency is transmitted at a time; IM won't happen because there's nothing to intermodulate. There is no on-off shaping because the transmission is continuous. If you're hearing garbage it may be from one of the numerous other modes that appear on or near the JT65 calling frequencies. Moreover, a few minutes spent on JT65 will reveal that many stations send short comments instead of the canned responses, and many mention that they are running 50 or 100 watts. The incorrect idea that it is a 5W mode is possibly due to confusion with WSPR. A passband of 1000 hz will pass all the signals in a JT65 calling band. Flex radios are good at producing a tunable 1 Khz passband, but actually just about any radio with DSP will do the same. If there's an offending signal near the one you want, you can always crank the passband down tighter or notch it (autonotch won't work for this purpose, but manual will). 73, Tony KT0NY ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
