[Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
Hi, First things first ... very impressive work, congratulations !!! Then ... I tried your 0.8.0 binary distribution on a AMD Athlon/1333 with 384MB RAM and GeForce2 PRO/32MB machine running Win98SE/Polish. Here is a brief "report" ... The "fgfs.exe" runs well (on a couple of occasions the sound stopped, and I had to "kill" it twice yesterday, however). Both the "fgjs.exe" and the "js_demo.exe" die immediately after I try to run them (some kind of a "general protection error" + "registers dump"). The "gl-info.exe" refuses to start with a note that "cygwin" dll is missing (which is correct, I do not have "cygwin" installed - the manual does not require it for the binary win32 distribution). I have two USB Logitech WingMan RumblePads connected. They were not recognized by default. I would like to ask the one who is responsible for : /FlightGear/Input/Joysticks/Logitech/wingman-rumblepad-usb.xml to add the following line into it : Logitech WingMan RumblePad USB (The recent RumblePad driver seems to define the name this way.) There are two problems with the joystick. First, there are two vertical "bars/arrows" in the cockpit for the "elevators", but only the "right" one is following the joystick (the "left" one always stays in the middle) - however, if I "view" the plane from "outside" I can see that both (left and right) are moving up/down. Second - both the "aileron" and "elevator" quite often misbehave - what I observe is that when I move them then appropriate "bars/arrows" are also moving, but every now and then the "bars/arrows" suddenly jump to the "neutral" position (and so they quite often jump between the "actual" joystick position and the "neutral" position). This can also be seen when I "view" the plane from "outside" - indeed "ailerons" and "elevators" are jumping - this makes the steering quite difficult. I monitored the joystick with an external utility and this utility does not show such problems, so it must be the "software". I did not observe such problems with the "rudder", but ... maybe it is just the "lack of experience". There is also another "annoying" problem. Basically, the FGFS runs very smoothly on my machine except that every now and then (I don't have my machine at hand now, but let's say it is about every 30 seconds) it "stops" for a moment - I can see that in these moments there are always a couple of lines written on the "terminal window" - among them there is "... recalculating the sun position ...". Best regards, Jacek. P.S. Note that I'm not subscribed ... . Jacek. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
On 10/23/02 at 11:58 AM Jacek M. Holeczek wrote: >There is also another "annoying" problem. Basically, the FGFS runs very >smoothly on my machine except that every now and then (I don't have my >machine at hand now, but let's say it is about every 30 seconds) it >"stops" for a moment - I can see that in these moments there are always a >couple of lines written on the "terminal window" - among them there is >"... recalculating the sun position ...". > Hi Jacek, This is a known problem - Win95/98/Me are absolutely hopeless at outputting to the console - NT/2000/XT are much quicker, and Linux quicker still. We really ought to sort out the ability to disable *any* console output after initialisation on Windows... Cheers - Dave ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
Minimize the console window to minimise the effect. Richard > -Original Message- > From: David Luff [mailto:David.Luff@;nottingham.ac.uk] > Sent: 24 October 2002 11:27 am > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE > > > On 10/23/02 at 11:58 AM Jacek M. Holeczek wrote: > >There is also another "annoying" problem. Basically, the > FGFS runs very > >smoothly on my machine except that every now and then (I > don't have my > >machine at hand now, but let's say it is about every 30 seconds) it > >"stops" for a moment - I can see that in these moments there > are always a > >couple of lines written on the "terminal window" - among > them there is > >"... recalculating the sun position ...". > > > > Hi Jacek, > > This is a known problem - Win95/98/Me are absolutely hopeless > at outputting > to the console - NT/2000/XT are much quicker, and Linux > quicker still. > > We really ought to sort out the ability to disable *any* > console output > after initialisation on Windows... > > Cheers - Dave > > > > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > __ > __ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > __ > __ > ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
Jacek M. Holeczek wrote: ... There are two problems with the joystick. First, there are two vertical "bars/arrows" in the cockpit for the "elevators", but only the "right" one is following the joystick (the "left" one always stays in the middle) - however, if I "view" the plane from "outside" I can see that both (left and right) are moving up/down. This is correct: the right-hand indicator is indicating elevator position, but the left-hand indicator is indicating elevator trim, which can be adjusted with numeric keypad 7 and 1 (or is it 9 and 3) and possibly with joystick buttons/hat switch if the joystick configuration file says so. Second - both the "aileron" and "elevator" quite often misbehave - what I observe is that when I move them then appropriate "bars/arrows" are also moving, but every now and then the "bars/arrows" suddenly jump to the "neutral" position (and so they quite often jump between the "actual" joystick position and the "neutral" position). This can also be seen when I "view" the plane from "outside" - indeed "ailerons" and "elevators" are jumping - this makes the steering quite difficult. I monitored the joystick with an external utility and this utility does not show such problems, so it must be the "software". I did not observe such problems with the "rudder", but ... maybe it is just the "lack of experience". That sounds like both the joystick and some other input device are trying to drive the controls at the same time. The other device might be the mouse, which has three modes, indicated by three different cursor shapes. Clicking the right-hand mouse button cyles around the three modes. When the cursor is a normal pointer, it is for pointing and clicking on menus and the panel controls. When it is a cross (+), it is in control of the elevators and ailerons - perhaps that is what you have. When it is a double arrow (<=>) it controls the view direction, for looking around. Hope this helps. - Julian ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
On 10/24/02 at 12:48 PM Jacek M. Holeczek wrote: >> This is a known problem - Win95/98/Me are absolutely hopeless at >outputting >> to the console - NT/2000/XT are much quicker, and Linux quicker still. > >I'm not very experienced here ... but are you sure that the problem is >just writing to the "terminal window" ? >>From what I can see ... when it happens ... there are about 20 lines of >text written (something like "... Updating Sun position ..." is among >them). That is not very much ! Moreover ... If I remember well the problem >seems to exist also when the "terminal window" is minimized and when FGFS >runs in "full screen mode" - in both cases the "terminal window" is >invisible (writing to it should be fast). >I tried to "set JSBSIM_DEBUG=0", but it does not seem to help much. >In any case ... is there anywhere any option in Win98SE that I could >try to activate in order to get it faster ? Yes, I'm absolutely sure, the problem *is* writing to the console window in Win9x/Me. I run Flightgear in 98SE, NT4 and Linux, and it is absolutely, definately the console output that causes the pauses. The whole Win9x/Me console API is inherently inefficient and broken - attempting to use a scroll buffer in the console also doesn't work properly with 9x but is fine with NT. The only way to get round it is to output nothing whilst running. Unfortunately console output is currently set at compile time in Flightgear (JSBSim has some runtime control but I'm not sure if the ground contact messages can currently be turned off), and even when compiled with --without-logging the sun update stuff still gets output. The quickest fix would be to fix the SG_LOG level of that output to be disabled with --without-logging. The best fix might be to enable full run-time logging control. I have commented out all the sun position information stuff in my own build in the past and the pauses go away. As someone else has said, minimising the console window can help, but some pauses still get through IME. Curt - can we change the SG_LOG level of the sun position stuff so it is disabled by configuring with --without-logging along with the rest of the output? Cheers - Dave ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
> quickest fix > would be to fix the SG_LOG level of that output to be disabled with > --without-logging. The best fix might be to enable full run-time logging > control. I have commented out all the sun position information > stuff in my > own build in the past and the pauses go away. As someone else has said, Does SimGear not have runtime control of logging!? Jon smime.p7s Description: application/pkcs7-signature
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:30:29 -0700 Andy Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Richard Bytheway wrote: We really ought to sort out the ability to disable *any* console output after initialisation on Windows... Is it maybe time to revisit the priority of most of the log messages? I mean, the vast majority of these things are debugging output for code that is mature and stable. Even most developers don't care about tile cache behavior anymore. I agree with this. At the least, we ought to have different levels of output for the released binaries on the web site - those who download the binaries are (I would think) users who could care less about the console output - and indeed might find it confusing. The default there should be for less console output. Also, I feel that some things such as the solution and landing reports are generally useful and of interest, but perhaps they could be made optional as well. For instance the user, after landing, requests a landing report from a "Reports" menu. The information can be passed up into FlightGear easily enough from JSBSim, at least. Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
Richard Bytheway wrote: > We really ought to sort out the ability to disable *any* console > output after initialisation on Windows... Is it maybe time to revisit the priority of most of the log messages? I mean, the vast majority of these things are debugging output for code that is mature and stable. Even most developers don't care about tile cache behavior anymore. Some stuff is still useful, like the YASim solution report and the JSBSim landing report. Other stuff is harmless, like the material loading messages which aren't very useful but at least tell you the sim isn't hung on startup. But IMHO, almost everything after the initialization pass can be pushed down to the "print only when debugging" level. Alternative, a really cool eye-candy suggestion would be to maintain the console log internally and display it with a popup console or somesuch, a-la Quake. :) Andy -- Andrew J. RossNextBus Information Systems Senior Software Engineer Emeryville, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nextbus.com "Men go crazy in conflagrations. They only get better one by one." - Sting (misquoted) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon Berndt) [2002.10.24 08:49]: > > quickest fix > > would be to fix the SG_LOG level of that output to be disabled with > > --without-logging. The best fix might be to enable full run-time > logging > > control. I have commented out all the sun position information > > stuff in my > > own build in the past and the pauses go away. As someone else has said, > > Does SimGear not have runtime control of logging!? > > Jon Yes, it does have runtime control of logging. You turn if off by using the --without-logging configure option. I believe David M. placed the log level control into the property tree in FG a while back, but I think it may be a bitmask, so you will need to know the bit values of the different log levels in order to set it properly. Don't quote me on that though -- I haven't looked at the code or property tree in forever. -- Cameron Moore / Just think how much deeper the ocean \ \ would be if sponges didn't live there / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
Hi, Thanks for your reply. > This is a known problem - Win95/98/Me are absolutely hopeless at outputting > to the console - NT/2000/XT are much quicker, and Linux quicker still. I'm not very experienced here ... but are you sure that the problem is just writing to the "terminal window" ? >From what I can see ... when it happens ... there are about 20 lines of text written (something like "... Updating Sun position ..." is among them). That is not very much ! Moreover ... If I remember well the problem seems to exist also when the "terminal window" is minimized and when FGFS runs in "full screen mode" - in both cases the "terminal window" is invisible (writing to it should be fast). I tried to "set JSBSIM_DEBUG=0", but it does not seem to help much. In any case ... is there anywhere any option in Win98SE that I could try to activate in order to get it faster ? Best regards, Jacek. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon S Berndt) [2002.10.24 12:08]: > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:30:29 -0700 > Andy Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Richard Bytheway wrote: > >>We really ought to sort out the ability to disable *any* > >>console > >>output after initialisation on Windows... > > > >Is it maybe time to revisit the priority of most of the log messages? > >I mean, the vast majority of these things are debugging output for > >code that is mature and stable. Even most developers > >don't care about tile cache behavior anymore. > > I agree with this. At the least, we ought to have > different levels of output for the released binaries on > the web site - those who download the binaries are (I > would think) users who could care less about the console > output - and indeed might find it confusing. The default > there should be for less console output. Also, I feel that > some things such as the solution and landing reports are > generally useful and of interest, but perhaps they could > be made optional as well. For instance the user, after > landing, requests a landing report from a "Reports" menu. > The information can be passed up into FlightGear easily > enough from JSBSim, at least. I mentioned in another thread that I thought the log levels where configurable at runtime, and I've confirmed that they are. The property is /sim/logging/priority. It defaults to "info", but you can change it to "warn" or "alert" to quell the verbose logging. We might want to set the log level to "warn" in the base package when we make a public release. Beyond that, I agree with Andy. There are a lot of messages that just don't seem like useful "info" to most of us, but fall more under the "debug" umbrella. We hardly use the "bulk" priority; maybe we can move the "debug" messages to "bulk" and move some of the "info" messages down to "debug". And when I say "we", I mean "someone else." :-) -- Cameron Moore [ If God was a perl hacker: ($child = 'grave') =~ s/v/c/; ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
In my experience, worst case is having the terminal (console) window open but covered (partially or completely) by another window, least bad is to have the console window selected. Best case for when the console window is not selected is to have it minimised. On NT like systems, it feels as if it helps to reduce the size of the console window as well. Since I have never used game mode, I have no data points, but I would think that it is comparable to open and covered. Yes even a few lines really is a problem, I have seen characters appearing at about 2 a second when things get really bad. Try the logging options that other people have mentioned. Richard > I'm not very experienced here ... but are you sure that the problem is > just writing to the "terminal window" ? > From what I can see ... when it happens ... there are about > 20 lines of > text written (something like "... Updating Sun position ..." is among > them). That is not very much ! Moreover ... If I remember > well the problem > seems to exist also when the "terminal window" is minimized > and when FGFS > runs in "full screen mode" - in both cases the "terminal window" is > invisible (writing to it should be fast). > I tried to "set JSBSIM_DEBUG=0", but it does not seem to help much. > In any case ... is there anywhere any option in Win98SE that I could > try to activate in order to get it faster ? > > Best regards, > Jacek. > > ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
I've been following this for a while now, inactively because I don't use windows. I have to ask the question why not write a quick replacement for the command window, if all we are interested in is logging calls? It would be possible to do this in Assembler I'm guessing - using NAsm and using windows calls. If all it has to do is log output. Presumably we would come up with something that works on Windows 98 through XP? and then include the executable in the release? Later, Chris On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 08:42, Richard Bytheway wrote: > In my experience, worst case is having the terminal (console) window open but >covered (partially or completely) by another window, least bad is to have the console >window selected. Best case for when the console window is not selected is to have it >minimised. > On NT like systems, it feels as if it helps to reduce the size of the console window >as well. > > Since I have never used game mode, I have no data points, but I would think that it >is comparable to open and covered. > > Yes even a few lines really is a problem, I have seen characters appearing at about >2 a second when things get really bad. > > Try the logging options that other people have mentioned. > > Richard > > > I'm not very experienced here ... but are you sure that the problem is > > just writing to the "terminal window" ? > > From what I can see ... when it happens ... there are about > > 20 lines of > > text written (something like "... Updating Sun position ..." is among > > them). That is not very much ! Moreover ... If I remember > > well the problem > > seems to exist also when the "terminal window" is minimized > > and when FGFS > > runs in "full screen mode" - in both cases the "terminal window" is > > invisible (writing to it should be fast). > > I tried to "set JSBSIM_DEBUG=0", but it does not seem to help much. > > In any case ... is there anywhere any option in Win98SE that I could > > try to activate in order to get it faster ? > > > > Best regards, > > Jacek. > > > > > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
