[Flightgear-devel] Epsilon, alpha_tail and independent tail contributions
Curerntly, as far as I understand, JSBSim does not support the buildup of the aerodynamic characteristics by taking the wing-body alone and adding the tail contribution. This is essential for example in investigating an aircraft behaviour during ice contaminated tailplane stall, a hot subject nowadays. For example, the total pitching moment would be: CM_wing-body + CLtail * tail_volume. Of course, the aero model should then need to include the downwash (Epsilon) at the tail (as a function of alpha, flaps, etc.) and CLtail vs. alpha_tail. My questions therefore are: 1. Is it possible to introduce Epsilon tables in the aircraft properties file? 2. Is it possible to have an option to evaluate alpha_tail (alpha_aircraft + horizontal_stab – Epsilon + dynamic components) whenever an Epsilon table is present in the properties file? This would be essential to calculate the tail lift and its contribution to the overall pitching moment. Regards, Fabián - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Cessna 150 update
Hi, I've updated the little Cessna so it should be flyable again (the fdm was still in the jsbsim old format). A few parts were updated too. http://sites.estvideo.net/tipunch/flightgear/c150-026.jpg http://sites.estvideo.net/tipunch/flightgear/c150-027.jpg Harald. This is not a diff http://sites.estvideo.net/tipunch/flightgear/c150.zip (3 Mb) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Epsilon, alpha_tail and independent tail contributions
Hi, IIRC you can specify functions (e.g. tables) in JSBSim which are in a first step completely unrelated to lift, drag, sideforce or any of the moments. The files output by DATCOM+ do this for the ground effect by establishing a table of additional coefficients based on the ratio of height AGL and span. These coefficients are then multiplied on the basic lift and drag. Simply place a function outside any of the axis definitions and then use it as a property in your axis functions. An example can be seen in the Seneca-model by Torsten Dreyer: http://cvs.flightgear.org/cgi-bin/viewvc/viewvc.cgi/data/Aircraft/SenecaII/SenecaII-jsbsim.xml?content-type=text%2Fplainview=co Search for ground-effect-factor-lift. You could use this to describe the downwash based on the current AoA and whatever is needed in addition. Cheers, Ralf - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Epsilon, alpha_tail and independent tail contributions
Fabian wrote: Currently , as far as I understand, JSBSim does not support the buildup of the aerodynamic characteristics by taking the wing-body alone and adding the tail contribution. This is essential for example in investigating an aircraft behaviour during ice contaminated tailplane stall, a hot subject nowadays. For example, the total pitching moment would be: CM_wing-body + CLtail * tail_volume. Actually, JSBSim supports exactly that kind of thing. [You might want to move this part of the discussion to the JSBSim list.] In JSBSim we use the coefficient build-up method to define the forces and moments about each of the axes. There is also the possibility of creating functions that calculate whatever you want, which can then be applied to the coefficients as needed. For example, multipliers into tables or other functions. You could use DATCOM+ to calculate the wing/body effects, then add other effects as needed, unless you already have data. For information on DATCOM+, see www.holycows.net/datcom. Of course, the aero model should then need to include the downwash (Epsilon) at the tail (as a function of alpha, flaps, etc.) and CLtail vs. alpha_tail. My questions therefore are: 1. Is it possible to introduce Epsilon tables in the aircraft properties file? To my knowledge, nobody has tried this, yet. However, it is certainly possible. 2. Is it possible to have an option to evaluate alpha_tail (alpha_aircraft + horizontal_stab - Epsilon + dynamic components) whenever an Epsilon table is present in the properties file? This would be essential to calculate the tail lift and its contribution to the overall pitching moment. Yes. That's one of the reasons that we created the function capability. One of our newsletters (see www.jsbsim.org) has information about defining functions in the aerodynamics section of a JSBSim aircraft config file. Also, there is this (somewhat formal) definition of JSBSim-ML: http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/JSBSim.xsd.html Some information on the function definition can be found here: http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/User%27s_Manual#Configuration_F iles For more information, as on the JSBSim list! Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 150 update
Hi, I've updated the little Cessna so it should be flyable again (the fdm was still in the jsbsim old format). A few parts were updated too. http://sites.estvideo.net/tipunch/flightgear/c150-026.jpg http://sites.estvideo.net/tipunch/flightgear/c150-027.jpg Harald. This is not a diff http://sites.estvideo.net/tipunch/flightgear/c150.zip (3 Mb) Nice looking 3D model. Did you use the JSBSim converter to convert the model? Was it relatively painless? Do I even want to know? ;-) Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] List message format
Is there a convention we should follow for formatting messages here (besides trying not to top post - which I admit I am guilty of)? It's not easy to reply to messages formatted in HTML. I'd personally like to see that format banned from the list. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 150 update
* Harald JOHNSEN -- Saturday 21 July 2007: http://sites.estvideo.net/tipunch/flightgear/c150.zip (3 Mb) Committed, thanks. I was missing the c150. (I only changed text files with MSDOS line terminators to Unix style according to fgfs rules. :-) m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 150 update
Jon S. Berndt wrote: Nice looking 3D model. Did you use the JSBSim converter to convert the model? Was it relatively painless? Do I even want to know? ;-) Jon Thank, yes I used the converter at the begining, I don't remember exactly but I think I did a few tries because the files were not at the right place so there was allways something missing, but yes this was relatively painless. Then I've started a datcom model but I still have a few problems to solve so the fdm is a mix of the converter output and some numbers from datcom. HJ. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] List message format
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon S. Berndt Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 12:51 PM To: Flightgear-Devel Subject: [Flightgear-devel] List message format Is there a convention we should follow for formatting messages here (besides trying not to top post - which I admit I am guilty of)? It's not easy to reply to messages formatted in HTML. I'd personally like to see that format banned from the list. Jon I tried side-posting, but that just isn't practical. I don't see a problem with top posting, or bottom posting, as long as you stay consistent. If you are following a discussion, it's nice to see the reply at the top, so that you don't have to scroll through a lot of stuff, just to see okay, I'll try that. You can always change your reply from HTML to simple text. Bill - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] List message format
* Bill Galbraith -- Saturday 21 July 2007: If you are following a discussion, it's nice to see the reply at the top, so that you don't have to scroll through a lot of stuff, just to see okay, I'll try that. Top posting is always annoying and wrong. Of course, it's bad to have 100 quoted lines with a single OK under them. But the problem here is not the OK, but the nonsensical hundred lines! We don't need the whole thread repeated in each of its messages. People are supposed to quote only if necessary, and only as much as is necessary. This is at most a few lines, so the scrolling down complaint isn't valid at all. (And no, I didn't invent these rules. :-) m. -- A: Because it destroys the flow of the conversation Q: Why is top-posting bad? - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] List message format
Top posting is always annoying and wrong. Of course, it's bad to have 100 quoted lines with a single OK under them. But the problem here is not the OK, but the nonsensical hundred lines! m. More importantly: is HTML to be avoided? Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] List message format
* Jon S. Berndt -- Saturday 21 July 2007: is HTML to be avoided? I can't stand HTML messages. HTML messages are for web pages, for blinking stuff and pony pictures, but meaningful text doesn't usually need HTML. It's just hard to keep people from using it. (Maybe with a nasty filter on the list server? :-) My mail user agent (kmail) always shows the plain text part of mixed plain/html messages. The real pain are HTML-only messages. Here only the HTML markup gibberish is shown (which is why I don't usually respond to such messages). m. -- A: No. Q: Should I include quotations after my reply? - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Epsilon, alpha_tail and independent tail contributions
_ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon S. Berndt Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 12:48 PM To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Epsilon,alpha_tail and independent tail contributions Fabian wrote: Currently , as far as I understand, JSBSim does not support the buildup of the aerodynamic characteristics by taking the wing-body alone and adding the tail contribution. This is essential for example in investigating an aircraft behaviour during ice contaminated tailplane stall, a hot subject nowadays. For example, the total pitching moment would be: CM_wing-body + CLtail * tail_volume. Actually, JSBSim supports exactly that kind of thing. [You might want to move this part of the discussion to the JSBSim list.] In JSBSim we use the coefficient build-up method to define the forces and moments about each of the axes. There is also the possibility of creating functions that calculate whatever you want, which can then be applied to the coefficients as needed. For example, multipliers into tables or other functions. You could use DATCOM+ to calculate the wing/body effects, then add other effects as needed, unless you already have data. For information on DATCOM+, see http://www.holycows.net/datcom www.holycows.net/datcom. Of course, the aero model should then need to include the downwash (Epsilon) at the tail (as a function of alpha, flaps, etc.) and CLtail vs. alpha_tail. My questions therefore are: 1. Is it possible to introduce Epsilon tables in the aircraft properties file? To my knowledge, nobody has tried this, yet. However, it is certainly possible. 2. Is it possible to have an option to evaluate alpha_tail (alpha_aircraft + horizontal_stab - Epsilon + dynamic components) whenever an Epsilon table is present in the properties file? This would be essential to calculate the tail lift and its contribution to the overall pitching moment. Yes. That's one of the reasons that we created the function capability. One of our newsletters (see http://www.jsbsim.org www.jsbsim.org) has information about defining functions in the aerodynamics section of a JSBSim aircraft config file. Also, there is this (somewhat formal) definition of JSBSim-ML: http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/JSBSim.xsd.html http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/JSBSim.xsd.html Some information on the function definition can be found here: http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/User%27s_Manual#Configuration_ Files http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/User%27s_Manual#Configuration_F iles For more information, as on the JSBSim list! Jon A couple problems that I've been addressing lately is that Datcom doesn't produce downwash angles when you drop flaps. Also, the elevator sweeps are a function of free-stream angle of attack (i.e., AOA at the wing, not the elevator). Another important omission from Datcom is that you can't drop flaps then do elevator sweeps. To me, these are important factors, since most of the crashes happen near the ground, when you have flaps and gear down. The FAA testing is heavy on near-ground performance, because that is where you get into the most trouble, such as losing an engine during take-off or landing. One approach that I've been considering is to calculate what the airfoil looks like when you lower the flaps, and input THAT as the airfoil, then do all of the normal calculations. For something like a 737 where you have leading and trailing edge flaps, you could easily get into 20 cases, with each case generating all of the coefficient tables (Cd, CL, CM, etc.). For a twin-prop aircraft, you just have trailing edge flaps, but you really need to run power effects at each flap setting, and you really should split the aircraft in half, since you could be flying on one engine. Engine thrust should be run at several settings, such as off, idle, cruise, and max, as a minimum. Interpolation between those power settings should be fairly accurate. Let me give you a good example. Twin engine prop aircraft, drop the flaps fully, you lose the right engine, and push the left one to max in order to climb. On the right side, you just have freestream airflow over the right wing, flap, rudder and elevator. On the left side, you have a prop blast hitting the wing, part of the flap, left side of the rudder, and most of the elevator. Ignoring the engine torque issue, you are going to experience different lift (higher on the left side) which creates a rolling moment. You will also experience different elevator control effectiveness right versus left. Rudder dynamic pressure might actually be different left versus right, creating a yawing moment, which is in addition to the thrust different left versus right. Now, is this a little overkill? Maybe, since most trainers that I've seen don't go into such details. It is possible to generate
Re: [Flightgear-devel] List message format
A: No. Q: Should I include quotations after my reply? Ha! This gave me a laugh. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Epsilon, alpha_tail and independent tail contributions
Bill G. wrote: Now, is this a little overkill? Maybe, since most trainers that I've seen don't go into such details. It is possible to generate data for these cases, and I think it would yield higher fidelity trainers than anything seen before, simply because that kind of data hasn't been available before. The question I'm wrestling with is whether it is worth all the headaches. After all, we could end up with 60-80 times more data than what we currently deal with now. Any thoughts? Jon Replies: I've been thinking about these issues for some time. I've actually considered just guessing. :-) I wonder how much data is too much data? It would be great to have this level of fidelity modeled. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Epsilon, alpha_tail and independent tail contributions
Jon Replies: I've been thinking about these issues for some time. I've actually considered just guessing. :-) I wonder how much data is too much data? It would be great to have this level of fidelity modeled. Jon Any chance JSBSim could be expanded to do infinity number of dimensions of tables (if it doesn't do it already)? Bill - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Epsilon, alpha_tail and independent tail contributions
Jon Replies: I've been thinking about these issues for some time. I've actually considered just guessing. :-) I wonder how much data is too much data? It would be great to have this level of fidelity modeled. Jon Any chance JSBSim could be expanded to do infinity number of dimensions of tables (if it doesn't do it already)? Bill We could probably expand to do four dimensions, which is pretty close. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Epsilon, alpha_tail and independent tail contributions
Any chance JSBSim could be expanded to do infinity number of dimensions of tables (if it doesn't do it already)? Bill We might actually be able to effectively do that, since we could have multiple tables defined that create multipliers that could be used later. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Epsilon, alpha_tail and independent tail contributions
Any chance JSBSim could be expanded to do infinity number of dimensions of tables (if it doesn't do it already)? Bill We might actually be able to effectively do that, since we could have multiple tables defined that create multipliers that could be used later. Jon Well, that was going to be my initial approach, but it's a real pain to remove one dimension like that out of a 4-D table to make it two 3-D tables (if I remember how that works). I haven't looked at your LFI implementation, but one that I did years ago I think used recursion, and therefore it was possible to have 'inifinty' number of dimension.. Or maybe I was just working on that and never going it working. I don't know. I've spelt since then. I'll try to quantify how many dimensions that I need out of DATCOM data. Bill - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Epsilon, alpha_tail and independent tail contributions
We might actually be able to effectively do that, since we could have multiple tables defined that create multipliers that could be used later. Jon Well, that was going to be my initial approach, but it's a real pain to remove one dimension like that out of a 4-D table to make it two 3-D tables (if I remember how that works). I haven't looked at your LFI implementation, but one that I did years ago I think used recursion, and therefore it was possible to have 'inifinty' number of dimension.. Or maybe I was just working on that and never going it working. I don't know. I've spelt since then. Bill In my mind, the problem is not so much the programmatic/algorithmic aspect, but how do you arrange the data in our XML format in files? I've got a few ideas, but it seems like it could be convoluted. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 150 update
Harald JOHNSEN schrieb: Hi, I've updated the little Cessna so it should be flyable again (the fdm was still in the jsbsim old format). A few parts were updated too. Thank you very much for fixing the C150, it is such a basic plane, a must have for every flightsim :-) Georg EDDW - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] [PATCH] Add missing constructor for FGTaxiNode
src/Airports/gnnode.cxx |5 +
src/Airports/gnnode.hxx |2 +-
2 files changed, 6 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
Problem 1:
gnnode.hxx defines this constructor for FGTaxiNode:
FGTaxiNode(double, double, int);
What do these doubles and the int stand for?
Solution: Take a look at parking.cxx - (lat, lon, index).
Problem 2:
gnnode.cxx does not define an implementation for this constructor.
Solution: This patch adds one which just initializes the three member
variables lat, lon, and index.
Index: src/Airports/gnnode.cxx
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/Airports/gnnode.cxx,v
retrieving revision 1.1
diff -u -p -r1.1 gnnode.cxx
--- src/Airports/gnnode.cxx 15 Jul 2007 14:08:32 - 1.1
+++ src/Airports/gnnode.cxx 21 Jul 2007 16:45:37 -
@@ -46,6 +46,11 @@ FGTaxiNode::FGTaxiNode()
{
}
+FGTaxiNode::FGTaxiNode(double lat, double lon, int index)
+ : lat(lat), lon(lon), index(index)
+{
+}
+
void FGTaxiNode::sortEndSegments(bool byLength)
{
if (byLength)
Index: src/Airports/gnnode.hxx
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/Airports/gnnode.hxx,v
retrieving revision 1.2
diff -u -p -r1.2 gnnode.hxx
--- src/Airports/gnnode.hxx 15 Jul 2007 14:08:32 - 1.2
+++ src/Airports/gnnode.hxx 21 Jul 2007 16:45:37 -
@@ -41,7 +41,7 @@ private:
public:
FGTaxiNode();
- FGTaxiNode(double, double, int);
+ FGTaxiNode(double lat, double lon, int index);
void setIndex(int idx) { index = idx;};
void setLatitude (double val) { lat = val;};
signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop.
Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Epsilon, alpha_tail and independent tail contributions
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon S. Berndt Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 2:49 PM To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Epsilon,alpha_tail and independent tail contributions We might actually be able to effectively do that, since we could have multiple tables defined that create multipliers that could be used later. Jon Well, that was going to be my initial approach, but it's a real pain to remove one dimension like that out of a 4-D table to make it two 3-D tables (if I remember how that works). I haven't looked at your LFI implementation, but one that I did years ago I think used recursion, and therefore it was possible to have 'inifinty' number of dimension.. Or maybe I was just working on that and never going it working. I don't know. I've spelt since then. Bill In my mind, the problem is not so much the programmatic/algorithmic aspect, but how do you arrange the data in our XML format in files? I've got a few ideas, but it seems like it could be convoluted. Jon This is how I do 3-D data in my free-format method. Another dimension might just be 2 entries on the 0.0 and 5000.0 lines, and there would have to be another 2 tables, if the 4th dimension only has two values. CP_ALTITUDE_CORRECTION_TABLE_TRAINING NON_DIMENSIONAL_TRUE_AIRSPEED SS_THRUST_COEFFICIENT DENSITY_ALTITUDE 0.0 6.377530E-03 6.799520E-03 7.671665E-03 8.155430E-03 8.714625E-03 0.000 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.075 -7.08702E-06 -7.46443E-06 -3.33640E-06 0.0 0.0 0.095 -3.13841E-06 -2.70910E-06 -6.89935E-07 0.0 0.0 0.115 9.80799E-09 2.24440E-06 3.75856E-06 0.0 0.0 0.135 1.64757E-06 5.51617E-06 6.02906E-06 0.0 0.0 0.155 3.16493E-06 8.90633E-06 9.08185E-06 0.0 0.0 0.175 4.73170E-06 1.27943E-05 1.29269E-05 0.0 0.0 0.195 6.08803E-06 1.72407E-05 1.61440E-05 0.0 0.0 0.215 7.20410E-06 1.86653E-05 1.64733E-05 0.0 0.0 0.235 9.13959E-06 2.25281E-05 1.90848E-05 0.0 0.0 0.255 1.11248E-05 2.56991E-05 2.07885E-05 0.0 0.0 0.275 1.48693E-05 3.54481E-05 2.81742E-05 0.0 0.0 0.295 1.96035E-05 4.86056E-05 3.89821E-05 0.0 0.0 0.315 2.43772E-05 5.99209E-05 4.68421E-05 0.0 0.0 0.335 2.60403E-05 5.76844E-05 4.35042E-05 0.0 0.0 0.355 3.45229E-05 6.20062E-05 4.31986E-05 0.0 0.0 5000.0 6.377530E-03 6.799520E-03 7.671665E-03 8.155430E-03 8.714625E-03 0.000 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.075 -5.82699E-06 -7.74447E-06 -3.98641E-06 -4.12238E-06 -2.16311E-06 0.095 -2.94845E-06 -4.71913E-06 -2.63005E-06 -3.49648E-06 -2.35165E-06 0.115 -1.14023E-06 -1.42562E-06 2.58558E-07 5.97211E-08 1.97976E-06 0.135 -8.32457E-07 1.66066E-07 1.02905E-06 1.69658E-06 4.06150E-06 0.155 -6.55098E-07 1.42632E-06 1.91189E-06 3.04350E-06 5.77344E-06 0.175 -1.36832E-06 2.06431E-06 2.86690E-06 5.00068E-06 9.04538E-06 0.195 -2.87194E-06 2.66073E-06 2.91396E-06 6.18843E-06 1.22274E-05 0.215 -1.00594E-06 3.82526E-06 3.67334E-06 6.54650E-06 1.32896E-05 0.235 -5.70348E-07 4.86814E-06 4.36482E-06 7.76484E-06 1.46019E-05 0.255 9.14792E-07 5.92906E-06 4.92844E-06 9.11357E-06 1.53244E-05 0.275 -9.10659E-07 8.20810E-06 6.30418E-06 1.05824E-05 1.77469E-05 0.295 -4.84660E-06 9.83535E-06 7.65215E-06 1.42617E-05 2.20197E-05 0.315 -5.64283E-06 1.19309E-05 8.17212E-06 1.69514E-05 2.69024E-05 0.335 1.35030E-06 1.46345E-05 9.07423E-06 1.68110E-05 2.66753E-05 0.355 1.51130E-05 2.15764E-05 1.23685E-05 1.73016E-05 2.39984E-05 - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 150 update
On Saturday 21 July 2007 17:38, Harald JOHNSEN wrote: I've updated the little Cessna so it should be flyable again (the fdm was still in the jsbsim old format). A few parts were updated too. It's looking great; I especially like the non-blurry Cessna logo on the yokes :-) The interior in general is nice too, with some of the little details that matter to me. I'd also like to praise the extensive help menu (it's a bit tricky flying aircraft when you have no clue about landing speeds and configurations etc...) Unfortunately, I've not managed to make it start so far... perhaps one of our startup tutorials might be a nice idea ;-) Great work though! Cheers, AJ PS, with OSG there is also some flickering of the instruments, presumably caused by their proximity to the panel behind them, which should be easy enough to cure - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Epsilon, alpha_tail and independent tail contributions
Jon Replies: I've been thinking about these issues for some time. I've actually considered just guessing. :-) I wonder how much data is too much data? It would be great to have this level of fidelity modeled. Jon Don't know if anyone noticed, but the flaps are already split left and right. I did this for the asymetric flap deflection issue. I wondered if the 737 that crashed in Pittsburgh in ...hmmm.. 1987(?) could have been caused by a flap jack screw attachment point breaking, thereby allowing the flap to blow up. In the post-crash investigation, it might look like the flap was down because the jack screw was fully extended, but if it's not attached to anything That crash was blamed on a rudder failure, with a subsequent redesign of the rudder servo, but it made me wonder what would happen if I had never seen anything like asymetric flap deflection on a sim before, but didn't see any reason Datcom couldn't do it. It's not like you can collect that data any other way. I never did experiment with a 737 to see what would happen, though Bill - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Air refueling JSBSim code versus Nasal code
On Tue 17 July 2007 15:27, gh.robin wrote: Hello, With T38 we get that error Nasal Message Nasal runtime error: No such member: getValue at FlightGear/data/Aircraft/T38/aar.nas, line 58 Regards -- Gérard Has the recent addition of the Nasal Air-to-air refueling capability broken the one that's been in JSBSim for a long time? If so, I propose that the new capability using Nasal should be made compatible with the one that was already there to begin with - meaning, it should not break the JSBSim one. At the least, there should be a discussion about a good way to move forward so that everyone is happy. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Air refueling JSBSim code versus Nasal code
On Saturday 21 July 2007 21:26, Jon S. Berndt wrote: Has the recent addition of the Nasal Air-to-air refueling capability broken the one that's been in JSBSim for a long time? If so, I propose that the new capability using Nasal should be made compatible with the one that was already there to begin with - meaning, it should not break the JSBSim one. The T38 error that was posted here refers to an error in the T38's aar.nas file (notice, it's ALREADY using nasal AAR), which hasn't kept pace with the rest of the changes in FG (which is admittedly a pretty rapid one, at times.) The good news is that it's probably redundant, anyway. In the reasonably recent past, a generic nasal AAR script which supports both JSBSim and YASim aircraft has been developed, which supports refuelling from both AI and MP aircraft. All one has to do is to include it in the aircraft -set.xml, as previously mentioned. As previously mentioned this can be simply ignored, or if aircraft-specific features are desired, any aircraft can maintain a local copy, modified to suit. Obviously, using the generic one has the huge advantage that someone else will ensure it stays up to date ;-) As far as I can see, there isn't a problem. JSBSim aircraft refuel just as nicely as YASim ones. The AAR capability in FG once only supported JSBSim refuelling from AI tankers, now it's vastly more flexible. Seems to be a win all round, to me... Anyone is free to burst my happy bubble with proof to the contrary though :-) Cheers, AJ - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: SimGear
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
2007-07-17_09:53:02 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/SimGear-0.3/source/simgear/props/props.cxx
- close loophole through which one could sneak in illegal property names
containing slashes, colons and all sorts of evil characters. In Nasal
this could be done via props.globals.getChild([EMAIL PROTECTED]//[]{}, 0,
1).setValue(0);
The cause is that getChild() hands the given name directly over to an
alternative SGPropertyNode (convenience) constructor which sets the
name without any checks.
- unify exception messages: first character is lower case
2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop.
Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: FlightGear source
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-15_09:08:32 (durk) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/Airports/gnnode.cxx /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/Airports/gnnode.hxx Fixes and code clean-up: - Airports Directory Thomas Foerster: Pulls out the FGTaxiNode implementation into gnnode.cxx. Melchior / Durk: Copy Constructor and assignment operator for FGTaxiRoute - AIModels Directory Durk / Melchior / Czaba Halasz: Ensure that all derived classes use AIBase member 'callsign'. Adapted, moved and deleted getter/setter functions where necessary Czaba Halasz: Fix AIBase model path vs. submodel path consistency. - Traffic Directory and AIModels CreateFlightPlanCruise DT: Temporary revert parts of the position estimation code. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-16_08:47:42 (curt) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/utils/Modeller/photomodel.cxx First revision of a small utility that will build a simple .ac file around a aerial photo texture. You need to determine the coordinates of the 4 corners of your image and this utility will use that to build a 3d model in meters and tell you the information to copy into the proper .stg file. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-20_09:46:05 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/AIModel/AIFlightPlan.cxx /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/AIModel/AIFlightPlanCreate.cxx remove redundant if check in cases of if (foo) delete foo; The C++ standard explicitly allows deleting a null pointer. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-21_06:05:20 (durk) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/Airports/runwayprefloader.cxx - Added ultra-light traffic is now a separate traffic class that can have its own preferential runway support. In future versions, we might want to condider having a more generic mechanism for this. - Keep a history of active runway for each class, so that runway assignments are more consistent after whether updates or time-related schedule changes. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-21_16:29:17 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/scripts/tools/fg-check check for evil userarchive flags (in aircraft xml files) 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: FlightGear data
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-15_07:49:51 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Blackbird-A-set.xml Gerard ROBIN: update -SR71-A which was the common aircraft with pilot and RSO -SR71-B which was the training aircraft with instructor pilot and student pilot. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-15_07:49:52 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Blackbird-B-set.xml Gerard ROBIN: update -SR71-A which was the common aircraft with pilot and RSO -SR71-B which was the training aircraft with instructor pilot and student pilot. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-15_07:49:53 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Blackbird-SetBase.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/README-FIRST /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/splash-BB-A.rgb /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/splash-BB-B.rgb Gerard ROBIN: update -SR71-A which was the common aircraft with pilot and RSO -SR71-B which was the training aircraft with instructor pilot and student pilot. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-15_07:49:54 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/thumbnail.jpg Gerard ROBIN: update -SR71-A which was the common aircraft with pilot and RSO -SR71-B which was the training aircraft with instructor pilot and student pilot. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-15_07:49:55 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Inputs/Blackbird-input.xml Gerard ROBIN: update -SR71-A which was the common aircraft with pilot and RSO -SR71-B which was the training aircraft with instructor pilot and student pilot. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-15_07:49:56 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/ALT-bb-hotspots.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/Bouton-Nord.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/Bouton_pt-Nord.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/CLOCK.xml Gerard ROBIN: update -SR71-A which was the common aircraft with pilot and RSO -SR71-B which was the training aircraft with instructor pilot and student pilot. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-15_07:49:57 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/EHSI-panel2d.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/EHSI.xml Gerard ROBIN: update -SR71-A which was the common aircraft with pilot and RSO -SR71-B which was the training aircraft with instructor pilot and student pilot. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-15_07:49:58 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/FUEL-bb.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/GMTR-bb.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/GMTR-f8e.xml Gerard ROBIN: update -SR71-A which was the common aircraft with pilot and RSO -SR71-B which was the training aircraft with instructor pilot and student pilot. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-15_07:49:59 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/HI-bb-hotspots.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/HUD-I1-f8e.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/LIGHT-hotspots.xml Gerard ROBIN: update -SR71-A which was the common aircraft with pilot and RSO -SR71-B which was the training aircraft with instructor pilot and student pilot. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-15_07:50:00 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/MODULE-autopilote-bb.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/MODULE-dimmer.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/MODULE-tacan-bb.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/Multi-bb.xml Gerard ROBIN: update -SR71-A which was the common aircraft with pilot and RSO -SR71-B which was the training aircraft with instructor pilot and student pilot. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-15_07:50:01 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/Prb-Cde-hotspots.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/Radar2d-bb.xml Gerard ROBIN: update -SR71-A which was the common aircraft with pilot and RSO -SR71-B which was the training aircraft with instructor pilot and student pilot. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-07-15_07:50:02 (mfranz)
