[Flightgear-devel] autopilot
Hello ... After the recent autopilot update , altitude hold doesn't work anymore for me , (using pi-simple-controller) Im not sure what effect to expect with the anti-windup addition , but my guess is it's just exposing my poor configuration. Cheers -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] reset crash
Ran into this , thinking I had a problem with the Primus 1000 ... When I try a reset from the menu , I get this error : passed invalid index (0) to FGRouteMgr::jumpToIndex Fatal error: name may contain only ._- and alphanumeric characters Ive been trying to hunt this down , but too tired tonight to go any further . Cheers -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] reset crash
syd adams wrote: Ran into this , thinking I had a problem with the Primus 1000 ... When I try a reset from the menu , I get this error : passed invalid index (0) to FGRouteMgr::jumpToIndex Fatal error: name may contain only ._- and alphanumeric characters This looks like a comment from the xml parser. Erik -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft C++ exception: FP_Inactive
乌兰巴根 wrote: Hi guys: I ever successfully build and run the flightgear-1.9.1 under WindowsXP by MSVC90. It is a great work and very interesting. Last week I download the source packege of flightgear-2.0.0. Build the source of flightgear is OK, but when step to debug, there is an exception: First-chance exception at 0x7c812afb in fgfs.exe: Microsoft C++ exception: FP_Inactive at memory location 0x0012f682.. It almost comes out every mainloop. The first thing that crosses my mind is: do you have matching FlightGear and SimGear sources and do you have a matching base package installed? (And is the new binary looking for the matching base package in the right place?) Erik -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bug report - crash
On 15 Mar 2010, at 23:49, Michael A. K. Gross wrote: I haven't seen this happen elsewhere, so I suspect it may not have been noticed, hence the bug report. This is a bleeding edge CVS, with bleeding edge OSG and SimGear as well. Debian linux with the latest graphics driver from Nvidia, on a somewhat old system. Let me know if you need more information, and I'll supply it. Thanks for the report - as you say, the 'unable to find path to runway threshold in ground.cxx for airport KEMT' might be the cause, but it might not - I believe that code path handles that condition safely. Can you reproduce the crash if you disable the AI traffic manager? Also, if you could file this bug at our tracker, http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/list that will ensure it doesn't get lost in the shuffle of emails. If someone else could try to duplicate the steps described, and report their results on the issue, that would be much appreciated. Regards, James -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] reset crash
On 16 Mar 2010, at 08:14, Erik Hofman wrote: When I try a reset from the menu , I get this error : passed invalid index (0) to FGRouteMgr::jumpToIndex Fatal error: name may contain only ._- and alphanumeric characters This looks like a comment from the xml parser. Ouch - the first message is mine - the second I can't claim responsibility for. What are the steps to reproduce - fire up the Bravo and hit 'reset'? James -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft C++ exception: FP_Inactive
- Erik Hofman a écrit : 乌兰巴根 wrote: Hi guys: I ever successfully build and run the flightgear-1.9.1 under WindowsXP by MSVC90. It is a great work and very interesting. Last week I download the source packege of flightgear-2.0.0. Build the source of flightgear is OK, but when step to debug, there is an exception: First-chance exception at 0x7c812afb in fgfs.exe: Microsoft C++ exception: FP_Inactive at memory location 0x0012f682.. It almost comes out every mainloop. The first thing that crosses my mind is: do you have matching FlightGear and SimGear sources and do you have a matching base package installed? (And is the new binary looking for the matching base package in the right place?) Durk use exceptions to return errors. FP means Flight Plan, not Floating Point. That's normal program execution, but it's really annoying when you want to debug because all these exceptions are a performance killer for the debugger, and it is not possible to hide the First chance exception message. There definitively a room for improvement here. A return code is the first thing that comes to mind. Or disable AI and Flight plans when you want to debug. That's not very useful tip when you want to debug AI itself. -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery - album photo http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/ FlightGear Scenery Designer -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] reset crash
James Turner wrote: On 16 Mar 2010, at 08:14, Erik Hofman wrote: What are the steps to reproduce - fire up the Bravo and hit 'reset'? I've committed a slightly more helpful exception message in props.cxx It'll provide something like: Fatal error: '!' found in propertyname after 'velocities' name may contain only ._- and alphanumeric characters for: propertyvelocities/air!speed-kt/property ^^^ or Fatal error: '!' found in propertyname after '' name may contain only ._- and alphanumeric characters for : propertyvelo!cities/airspeed-kt/property ^^^ That's about that maximum I could get out of the current code without a major rewrite. Erik -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] autopilot
Hello ... After the recent autopilot update , altitude hold doesn't work anymore for me , (using pi-simple-controller) Im not sure what effect to expect with the anti-windup addition , but my guess is it's just exposing my poor configuration. Syd, if you are referring to the b1900d or the Bravo, the only autopilot controllers that could be affected by the patch might be for the b1900d - Vertical Speed Hold - Descent FPM - IAS and the Bravo - Vnav Hold 1 Unless I didn't introduce a bug, pi-simple-controller with a Ki of zero (aka pure gain) should not show a behaviour other than before the change. Curt made a nice description of anti-windup at http://www.flightgear.org/Docs/XMLAutopilot/node3.html quote Integrator wind up can occur when the system simply can't get to the target value, even at full control input. For instance a large truck commanded to go 90km/hr might slow to 70km/hr on a steep hill even at full throttle. During this time while climbing the hill, the integrator term is accumulating a tremendous amount of error. This is called integrator windup. Once you hit the crest of the hill you have to overshoot the target speed for a while to ``unwind'' the integrator term (which at this point may have grown very large.) This can cause you to significantly over-speed for as long as you were undershooting the target. This can lead to many unsafe and unstable situations so ``integrator windup'' is generally considered an undesirable /quote Please let me know, if I can help fixing the problem. Torsten -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft C++ exception: FP_Inactive
On 16 Mar 2010, at 08:43, Frederic Bouvier wrote: Durk use exceptions to return errors. FP means Flight Plan, not Floating Point. That's normal program execution, but it's really annoying when you want to debug because all these exceptions are a performance killer for the debugger, and it is not possible to hide the First chance exception message. There definitively a room for improvement here. A return code is the first thing that comes to mind. Or disable AI and Flight plans when you want to debug. That's not very useful tip when you want to debug AI itself. I've changed this code to stop using exceptions-as-return values - I believe the fix should be in 2.0.0, but I'm not 100% positive about that. James -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft C++ exception: FP_Inactive
Hello guys: Firstly, thanks for all reply. I am sure the source package of flightgear and simgear both are v2.0,and I have download the latest plib,openAL,OSG and so on. By now, I have to fix this by return a bool value. I will try to find other way. Thanks! wlbg I -- 原始邮件 -- From: James Turner zakal...@mac.com Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussionsflightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft C++ exception: FP_Inactive Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:56:57 + On 16 Mar 2010, at 08:43, Frederic Bouvier wrote: Durk use exceptions to return errors. FP means Flight Plan, not Floating Point. That's normal program execution, but it's really annoying when you want to debug because all these exceptions are a performance killer for the debugger, and it is not possible to hide the First chance exception message. There definitively a room for improvement here. A return code is the first thing that comes to mind. Or disable AI and Flight plans when you want to debug. That's not very useful tip when you want to debug AI itself. I've changed this code to stop using exceptions-as-return values - I believe the fix should be in 2.0.0, but I'm not 100% positive about that. James -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft C++ exception: FP_Inactive
- James Turner a écrit : On 16 Mar 2010, at 08:43, Frederic Bouvier wrote: Durk use exceptions to return errors. FP means Flight Plan, not Floating Point. That's normal program execution, but it's really annoying when you want to debug because all these exceptions are a performance killer for the debugger, and it is not possible to hide the First chance exception message. There definitively a room for improvement here. A return code is the first thing that comes to mind. Or disable AI and Flight plans when you want to debug. That's not very useful tip when you want to debug AI itself. I've changed this code to stop using exceptions-as-return values - I believe the fix should be in 2.0.0, but I'm not 100% positive about that. I am pretty sure it is not -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery - album photo http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/ FlightGear Scenery Designer -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft C++ exception: FP_Inactive
On 16 Mar 2010, at 11:12, Frederic Bouvier wrote: I've changed this code to stop using exceptions-as-return values - I believe the fix should be in 2.0.0, but I'm not 100% positive about that. I am pretty sure it is not I committed the fix on 19th February, it seems - evidently that missed 2.0.0 :( James -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] reset crash
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Erik Hofman e...@ehofman.com wrote: James Turner wrote: I've committed a slightly more helpful exception message in props.cxx It'll provide something like: Fatal error: '!' found in propertyname after 'velocities' name may contain only ._- and alphanumeric characters for: propertyvelocities/air!speed-kt/property ^^^ or Fatal error: '!' found in propertyname after '' name may contain only ._- and alphanumeric characters for : propertyvelo!cities/airspeed-kt/property ^^^ That's about that maximum I could get out of the current code without a major rewrite. I have already done something similar for my deboost branch: http://gitorious.org/~jester/fg/jesters-sg-clone/commit/6bb7dd44e6f4ac96641a3391f1fa504b5e6f6345 -- Csaba/Jester -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] reset crash
I could reproduce with all the aircraft of mine ... haven't tried anyone else's yet . Ouch - the first message is mine - the second I can't claim responsibility for. What are the steps to reproduce - fire up the Bravo and hit 'reset'? James -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 7:01 PM, syd adams adams@gmail.com wrote: I have to agree that much can't be done . I hate to see it removed from the forum , flame war or not , since keeping as much information out there as possible might keep a few some being conned . I was thinking the other day that if mentions of flightsimpro were followed up immediately by patient and *positive* responses that explained the true nature of the situation (rather than a string of angry replies) that might be beneficial to FlightGear. People googling for flightsimpro information might stumble on our forum and have a chance to read about what's really going on. However, if the flightsimpro guy is trying to use trickery ... like logging onto the forum with multiple identities (there were two users on the forum from his same IP address in this most recent case) then this could just degenerate into chaos. If this guy points his users at our forum, that also might be a benefit to us. If flightsimpro users start showing up and asking questions, we could again be patient and welcoming, but explain the situation to them. That way at least for the future, they can get newer versions for free if they wish, and participate in an open community of users. There are a lot of different angles here, but I think whatever we do, we can't take out our frustrations on the end users that flightsimpro manages to sucker into buying a copy of FlightGear without telling them what it actually is. The guy is building his business on a charade ... and that is a hard thing to keep up long term. He has to spend a large percentage of his time maintaining his charade, covering his tracks, etc. I can't even remember my own forum password half the time ... and this guy has to remember a bunch of user names and passwords. He probably has sticky notes all over his monitor. Maybe he's really good at that sort of thing and will have some leeching success, but it's a shaky business model that could come crashing down around him at any time. He's always going to be looking over his shoulder ... hoping he doesn't inadvertently swindle the wrong person in the wrong country ... hoping the major publications don't catch on to him ... hoping if something does go wrong he can duck into the shadows and re-emerge somewhere else ... reality has a way of catching up with these guys eventually. Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!
- Curtis Olson a écrit : If this guy points his users at our forum, that also might be a benefit to us. If flightsimpro users start showing up and asking questions, we could again be patient and welcoming, but explain the situation to them. That way at least for the future, they can get newer versions for free if they wish, and participate in an open community of users. Users of FlightProSim have been scammed and they should not endure our anger. But I am not happy to do the FPS support for free, so we should either tell them, always with courtesy, to ask the FPS support desk, or use the real flightgear. This FPS guy is either a thief if he really modified a GPL program without publishing modifications, or a liar because his claim of having an improved version is not substantiated. -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery - album photo http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/ FlightGear Scenery Designer -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft C++ exception: FP_Inactive
- James Turner a écrit : On 16 Mar 2010, at 11:12, Frederic Bouvier wrote: I've changed this code to stop using exceptions-as-return values - I believe the fix should be in 2.0.0, but I'm not 100% positive about that. I am pretty sure it is not I committed the fix on 19th February, it seems - evidently that missed 2.0.0 Thank you anyway. I hadn't see your changes -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery - album photo http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/ FlightGear Scenery Designer -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!
On 16 Mar 2010, at 15:01, Curtis Olson wrote: There are a lot of different angles here, but I think whatever we do, we can't take out our frustrations on the end users that flightsimpro manages to sucker into buying a copy of FlightGear without telling them what it actually is. The guy is building his business on a charade ... and that is a hard thing to keep up long term. He has to spend a large percentage of his time maintaining his charade, covering his tracks, etc. I can't even remember my own forum password half the time ... and this guy has to remember a bunch of user names and passwords. He probably has sticky notes all over his monitor. Maybe he's really good at that sort of thing and will have some leeching success, but it's a shaky business model that could come crashing down around him at any time. +1 to all of this - I don't imagine the guy will vanish, but he has to work fairly hard to stay relevant - and moreso the more active / well publicised FG is. Of course, communications and 'marketing' is less fun than hacking code, for most of us here - but being visible and communicative (whether it's the newsletter, forums, the wiki or external flight-simming sites) is the easiest way to make his business model less effective. James -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!
From: Frederic Bouvier Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:21 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim! Users of FlightProSim have been scammed and they should not endure our anger. But I am not happy to do the FPS support for free, so we should either tell them, always with courtesy, to ask the FPS support desk, or use the real flightgear. On the http://www.clickbank.com/product_requirements.html website it says You will provide appropriate technical support pages for all Products that You register for sale via the ClickBank Services in English and all of the other languages in which the Products are offered at Your own web site. Your technical support must be consistent with best industry practices and standards. Is he capable of meeting that requirement, especially if his customers can expect no help from here? Alan-- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] reset crash
OK , could be something on my end. I'll dig a little deeper after work. Cheers On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 10:46 AM, James Turner zakal...@mac.com wrote: On 16 Mar 2010, at 14:08, syd adams wrote: I could reproduce with all the aircraft of mine ... haven't tried anyone else's yet . filed as http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=107 the problem is, I can't reproduce it here at all - what do other people see? (with latest CVS source) James -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] [OT] Bizarre Experiment
Hi Folks, This is a little off-topic, but I thought I'd write a little about a rather bizarre experiment I'm currently running, involving one high-powered 64-bit Linux machine, my currently still cold living room, a central heating system, and a semi-infinitely looped shell script that keeps compiling OpenSceneGraph, and removing the results. Later on this evening, the experiment will probably also include a glass of wine. Before you start doubting my sanity, here's the background: The high-powered linux machine has been known in the multiplayer community for a brief period under it's call sign PH-UTW, when it logged an exemplary 16 hour+ performance of continual and near flawless FlightGear operations during FSWeekend 2009. This same machine did the same thing after we had assembled it and used it at a public demo that involved a visit from the dean of our faculty. The trouble is that outside of these two occasions in the spotlight, this machine has been plagued with trouble. Right before FSWeekend, I noticed several stability problems, but (thought I) got everything fixed-up just before show time. Right after coming back from FSWeekend, trouble began all over, up to the point where the machine refused to boot. Since then, the motherboard, has been replaced, as have been the two banks of RAM, and the harddisk. In essence, all that is left of PH-UTW are the over sized case, the power supply, the CPU, and the two video cards. And still it keeps crashing. Last weekend I took the machine home, and I started testing today. The hangups are random, but they typically happen during periods of high CPU usage. Compiling OSG gives a good chance of hanging the machine within 15 to 60 minutes after booting it. My current working hypothesis is that these hangups are caused by problems with the cooler, probably due to insufficient cooling grease on the CPU. The exposition hall at Lelystad airport was relatively cold, which could explain why this computer had been running rock-solid during the event Earlier today, I started testing by placing this machine in a relatively cold room, and it has been compiling and removing OSG for 7 hours straight without a single hick-up. So, to test my heat exchange hypothesis, I moved this computer inside my living room, and turned on the heater. If insufficient cooling is a the culprit, the hangups should appear again, once the temperature reaches similar levels it normally is in my office. At this stage, all I can do is wait, and this is where a cool glass of wine enters the equation. :-) To be continued... Cheers, Durk -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [OT] Bizarre Experiment
is it on webcam ? Durk Talsma wrote: Hi Folks, This is a little off-topic, but I thought I'd write a little about a rather bizarre experiment I'm currently running, involving one high-powered 64-bit Linux machine, my currently still cold living room, a central heating system, and a semi-infinitely looped shell script that keeps compiling OpenSceneGraph, and removing the results. Later on this evening, the experiment will probably also include a glass of wine. Before you start doubting my sanity, here's the background: The high-powered linux machine has been known in the multiplayer community for a brief period under it's call sign PH-UTW, when it logged an exemplary 16 hour+ performance of continual and near flawless FlightGear operations during FSWeekend 2009. This same machine did the same thing after we had assembled it and used it at a public demo that involved a visit from the dean of our faculty. The trouble is that outside of these two occasions in the spotlight, this machine has been plagued with trouble. Right before FSWeekend, I noticed several stability problems, but (thought I) got everything fixed-up just before show time. Right after coming back from FSWeekend, trouble began all over, up to the point where the machine refused to boot. Since then, the motherboard, has been replaced, as have been the two banks of RAM, and the harddisk. In essence, all that is left of PH-UTW are the over sized case, the power supply, the CPU, and the two video cards. And still it keeps crashing. Last weekend I took the machine home, and I started testing today. The hangups are random, but they typically happen during periods of high CPU usage. Compiling OSG gives a good chance of hanging the machine within 15 to 60 minutes after booting it. My current working hypothesis is that these hangups are caused by problems with the cooler, probably due to insufficient cooling grease on the CPU. The exposition hall at Lelystad airport was relatively cold, which could explain why this computer had been running rock-solid during the event Earlier today, I started testing by placing this machine in a relatively cold room, and it has been compiling and removing OSG for 7 hours straight without a single hick-up. So, to test my heat exchange hypothesis, I moved this computer inside my living room, and turned on the heater. If insufficient cooling is a the culprit, the hangups should appear again, once the temperature reaches similar levels it normally is in my office. At this stage, all I can do is wait, and this is where a cool glass of wine enters the equation. :-) To be continued... Cheers, Durk -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [OT] Bizarre Experiment
On Tuesday 16 March 2010 10:15:57 pm Pete Morgan wrote: is it on webcam ? Euuh, no. It's really not that interesting to watch anyway. :-) Cheers, Durk -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [OT] Bizarre Experiment
Hi Durk, No idea about modern machines, but I've certainly had past machines that got flaky due to cpu cooling deficiencies. I've also had video cards with the same issue. I believe there should be an lm-sensors package where you can measure fan speed and cpu temp while you run. That can be useful for tracking down problems, or ruling them out. I've also seen machines that got flaky due to a marginal power supply. That would be another thing to double check ... Regards, Curt. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Durk Talsma wrote: Hi Folks, This is a little off-topic, but I thought I'd write a little about a rather bizarre experiment I'm currently running, involving one high-powered 64-bit Linux machine, my currently still cold living room, a central heating system, and a semi-infinitely looped shell script that keeps compiling OpenSceneGraph, and removing the results. Later on this evening, the experiment will probably also include a glass of wine. Before you start doubting my sanity, here's the background: The high-powered linux machine has been known in the multiplayer community for a brief period under it's call sign PH-UTW, when it logged an exemplary 16 hour+ performance of continual and near flawless FlightGear operations during FSWeekend 2009. This same machine did the same thing after we had assembled it and used it at a public demo that involved a visit from the dean of our faculty. The trouble is that outside of these two occasions in the spotlight, this machine has been plagued with trouble. Right before FSWeekend, I noticed several stability problems, but (thought I) got everything fixed-up just before show time. Right after coming back from FSWeekend, trouble began all over, up to the point where the machine refused to boot. Since then, the motherboard, has been replaced, as have been the two banks of RAM, and the harddisk. In essence, all that is left of PH-UTW are the over sized case, the power supply, the CPU, and the two video cards. And still it keeps crashing. Last weekend I took the machine home, and I started testing today. The hangups are random, but they typically happen during periods of high CPU usage. Compiling OSG gives a good chance of hanging the machine within 15 to 60 minutes after booting it. My current working hypothesis is that these hangups are caused by problems with the cooler, probably due to insufficient cooling grease on the CPU. The exposition hall at Lelystad airport was relatively cold, which could explain why this computer had been running rock-solid during the event Earlier today, I started testing by placing this machine in a relatively cold room, and it has been compiling and removing OSG for 7 hours straight without a single hick-up. So, to test my heat exchange hypothesis, I moved this computer inside my living room, and turned on the heater. If insufficient cooling is a the culprit, the hangups should appear again, once the temperature reaches similar levels it normally is in my office. At this stage, all I can do is wait, and this is where a cool glass of wine enters the equation. :-) To be continued... Cheers, Durk -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [OT] Bizarre Experiment
Hi Curt, A shakey power supply would indeed be my alternative hypothesis. However, I would find it hard to imagine that the city power grid would be so much more stable than the university's power network (which I believe is also connected to the public power grid anyhow). In addition, at FSWeekend, we were running on an ad-hoc generator, which would be way less stable than the city power grid, I assume. In any case, the temperature in my living room has just reached approx 23 degrees celsius, and PH-UTW has experienced it's first lockup. This seems to confirm my temperature hypothesis. :-) Cheers, Durk On Tuesday 16 March 2010 10:27:25 pm Curtis Olson wrote: Hi Durk, No idea about modern machines, but I've certainly had past machines that got flaky due to cpu cooling deficiencies. I've also had video cards with the same issue. I believe there should be an lm-sensors package where you can measure fan speed and cpu temp while you run. That can be useful for tracking down problems, or ruling them out. I've also seen machines that got flaky due to a marginal power supply. That would be another thing to double check ... Regards, Curt. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [OT] Bizarre Experiment
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:52:36 +0100, Durk wrote in message 201003162252.37060.d.tal...@xs4all.nl: Hi Curt, A shakey power supply would indeed be my alternative hypothesis. However, I would find it hard to imagine that the city power grid would be so much more stable than the university's power network (which I believe is also connected to the public power grid anyhow). In addition, at FSWeekend, we were running on an ad-hoc generator, which would be way less stable than the city power grid, I assume. ..depends on the load you give it, and you want a 3-phase and put one or 2 boxes on each phase on the toy gensets if you use them instead of UPS'es. In any case, the temperature in my living room has just reached approx 23 degrees celsius, and PH-UTW has experienced it's first lockup. This seems to confirm my temperature hypothesis. :-) ..nice firm rather than high pressure air is a neat dust ball blower, and you probably wanna do it outdoors. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] reset crash
I can confirm this happens with the Tu-154B freeware model. James Turner wrote: On 16 Mar 2010, at 08:14, Erik Hofman wrote: What are the steps to reproduce - fire up the Bravo and hit 'reset'? I've committed a slightly more helpful exception message in props.cxx It'll provide something like: Fatal error: '!' found in propertyname after 'velocities' name may contain only ._- and alphanumeric characters for: propertyvelocities/air!speed-kt/property ^^^ or Fatal error: '!' found in propertyname after '' name may contain only ._- and alphanumeric characters for : propertyvelo!cities/airspeed-kt/property ^^^ That's about that maximum I could get out of the current code without a major rewrite. Erik -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!
Hmm, why not change the license on some of the newer planes to a more restrictive creative commons license? This would give you more control over how these are used. For instance, you could apply the license so the planes could only be use for non-commercial/free projects, and if a commercial project wanted to use your planes then they would have to request permission to use them. I think that is a fair trade off. Besides commercial companies should be trying to improve the underlying Flight Dynamic Model and terrain system ... not trying to getting rich quick off of our pretty planes. The GPL license should apply some probably just a handful of planes. my 2 cents -Rob On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Pete Morgan ac...@daffodil.uk.com wrote: Just sent an email to New Zealand open Source and got this reply, pete Hello Peter, Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Please recognise that the GPL does not in any way preclude people from packaging up and selling a software application *so long as they comply with the terms of the GPL with regard to making the source code available on request*. It may be that these guys are *not* in violation of the GPL so long as they can provide you with their source code if you request it. If they can't, then they should be given notice of a GPL violation. There is another issue here, however: if they are packaging up wiki content, aircraft designs, et al. for which *they do not hold copyright* and which aren't licensed under a Creative Commons license allowing commercial distribution, then they *are* guilty of copyright infringement, and you can take them to task on that, *if you are (or represent) the copyright holder*. As a representative of the NZOSS, I would fully encourage you to explore both issues (the distribution of source code, and the distribution of copyrighted materials constituting potential copyright infringement) with the FlightProSim.com people. One of our other members has noted that they're similarly distributing Free!Ship: http://www.3dboatdesign.com/indexg.php http://www.3dboatdesign.com/indexg.php We'll investigate that. Let me know if you have any further questions. Kind regards, Dave Lane NZOSS council member -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Rob Oates carrotr...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm, why not change the license on some of the newer planes to a more restrictive creative commons license? This would give you more control over how these are used. For instance, you could apply the license so the planes could only be use for non-commercial/free projects, and if a commercial project wanted to use your planes then they would have to request permission to use them. I think that is a fair trade off. Besides commercial companies should be trying to improve the underlying Flight Dynamic Model and terrain system ... not trying to getting rich quick off of our pretty planes. The GPL license should apply some probably just a handful of planes. my 2 cents I'm not so keen on mixing my GPled code contributions with non-GPLed content. Tim -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!
Last I heard, The GPL license was applied to all the planes hosted on the FG website. I do believe however, that if we do take our own planes and put them in a restrictive CC license and then give permission for FG and only FG to use them, then we may be able to do some good. On Mar 16, 2010, at 7:18 PM, Rob Oates wrote: Hmm, why not change the license on some of the newer planes to a more restrictive creative commons license? This would give you more control over how these are used. For instance, you could apply the license so the planes could only be use for non-commercial/free projects, and if a commercial project wanted to use your planes then they would have to request permission to use them. I think that is a fair trade off. Besides commercial companies should be trying to improve the underlying Flight Dynamic Model and terrain system ... not trying to getting rich quick off of our pretty planes. The GPL license should apply some probably just a handful of planes. my 2 cents -Rob On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Pete Morgan ac...@daffodil.uk.com wrote: Just sent an email to New Zealand open Source and got this reply, pete Hello Peter, Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Please recognise that the GPL does not in any way preclude people from packaging up and selling a software application *so long as they comply with the terms of the GPL with regard to making the source code available on request*. It may be that these guys are *not* in violation of the GPL so long as they can provide you with their source code if you request it. If they can't, then they should be given notice of a GPL violation. There is another issue here, however: if they are packaging up wiki content, aircraft designs, et al. for which *they do not hold copyright* and which aren't licensed under a Creative Commons license allowing commercial distribution, then they *are* guilty of copyright infringement, and you can take them to task on that, *if you are (or represent) the copyright holder*. As a representative of the NZOSS, I would fully encourage you to explore both issues (the distribution of source code, and the distribution of copyrighted materials constituting potential copyright infringement) with the FlightProSim.com people. One of our other members has noted that they're similarly distributing Free!Ship: http://www.3dboatdesign.com/indexg.php http://www.3dboatdesign.com/indexg.php We'll investigate that. Let me know if you have any further questions. Kind regards, Dave Lane NZOSS council member -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Kyle Keevill kyle...@gmail.com -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [OT] Bizarre Experiment
Durk Talsma wrote: Hi Curt, A shakey power supply would indeed be my alternative hypothesis. Hi Durk, I am not an electronics expert but I guess the temperature will affect the power supply too. And I think modern CPU/MB have temperature check built in and slow the clock to compensate. After random crashes, I would run memtest86+ and if it passes I would replace the power supply. At least down here in Brazil faulty memory and power supplies are really common, people say they ship the suspicious batches to developing countries. With lm-sensors you may be able to check the voltages also... Regards, Diogo -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!
Hmm ... the planes in Flightgear are just models, they don't require simgear and terragear to function. Furthermore I would find it extremely bizarre for an airplane model to be a dependency in order for Flightgear to work. I think it's reasonable to say there should be a clear separation between content and code. Clearly you folks are bothered by the this Pro-sim guy's constant mooching ... but the license allows him to do what he does. I have no qualms about him distributing the core flightgear simulation program in another form (hey let him be responsible for his own support), but I do think it's unethical for people to make money off of our highly detailed models and our artwork. Our models and our code should be seen as two separate entities, that is all that I'm suggesting. Thanks, -Rob On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Tim Moore timoor...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Rob Oates carrotr...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm, why not change the license on some of the newer planes to a more restrictive creative commons license? This would give you more control over how these are used. For instance, you could apply the license so the planes could only be use for non-commercial/free projects, and if a commercial project wanted to use your planes then they would have to request permission to use them. I think that is a fair trade off. Besides commercial companies should be trying to improve the underlying Flight Dynamic Model and terrain system ... not trying to getting rich quick off of our pretty planes. The GPL license should apply some probably just a handful of planes. my 2 cents I'm not so keen on mixing my GPled code contributions with non-GPLed content. Tim -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!
That only helps make it clear if someone is violating a copyright. It doesn't help enforce it. If the license is changed, and then someone were to go and sell FG with those aircraft who would hire the lawyer bring the copyright violation law suit? --Adam On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:26 PM, kyle keevill wrote: Last I heard, The GPL license was applied to all the planes hosted on the FG website. I do believe however, that if we do take our own planes and put them in a restrictive CC license and then give permission for FG and only FG to use them, then we may be able to do some good. On Mar 16, 2010, at 7:18 PM, Rob Oates wrote: Hmm, why not change the license on some of the newer planes to a more restrictive creative commons license? This would give you more control over how these are used. For instance, you could apply the license so the planes could only be use for non-commercial/free projects, and if a commercial project wanted to use your planes then they would have to request permission to use them. I think that is a fair trade off. Besides commercial companies should be trying to improve the underlying Flight Dynamic Model and terrain system ... not trying to getting rich quick off of our pretty planes. The GPL license should apply some probably just a handful of planes. my 2 cents -Rob On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Pete Morgan ac...@daffodil.uk.com wrote: Just sent an email to New Zealand open Source and got this reply, pete Hello Peter, Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Please recognise that the GPL does not in any way preclude people from packaging up and selling a software application *so long as they comply with the terms of the GPL with regard to making the source code available on request*. It may be that these guys are *not* in violation of the GPL so long as they can provide you with their source code if you request it. If they can't, then they should be given notice of a GPL violation. There is another issue here, however: if they are packaging up wiki content, aircraft designs, et al. for which *they do not hold copyright* and which aren't licensed under a Creative Commons license allowing commercial distribution, then they *are* guilty of copyright infringement, and you can take them to task on that, *if you are (or represent) the copyright holder*. As a representative of the NZOSS, I would fully encourage you to explore both issues (the distribution of source code, and the distribution of copyrighted materials constituting potential copyright infringement) with the FlightProSim.com people. One of our other members has noted that they're similarly distributing Free!Ship: http://www.3dboatdesign.com/indexg.php http://www.3dboatdesign.com/indexg.php We'll investigate that. Let me know if you have any further questions. Kind regards, Dave Lane NZOSS council member -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Kyle Keevill kyle...@gmail.com -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!
Good point, didn't account for that. On Mar 16, 2010, at 8:05 PM, Adam Dershowitz wrote: That only helps make it clear if someone is violating a copyright. It doesn't help enforce it. If the license is changed, and then someone were to go and sell FG with those aircraft who would hire the lawyer bring the copyright violation law suit? --Adam On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:26 PM, kyle keevill wrote: Last I heard, The GPL license was applied to all the planes hosted on the FG website. I do believe however, that if we do take our own planes and put them in a restrictive CC license and then give permission for FG and only FG to use them, then we may be able to do some good. On Mar 16, 2010, at 7:18 PM, Rob Oates wrote: Hmm, why not change the license on some of the newer planes to a more restrictive creative commons license? This would give you more control over how these are used. For instance, you could apply the license so the planes could only be use for non-commercial/free projects, and if a commercial project wanted to use your planes then they would have to request permission to use them. I think that is a fair trade off. Besides commercial companies should be trying to improve the underlying Flight Dynamic Model and terrain system ... not trying to getting rich quick off of our pretty planes. The GPL license should apply some probably just a handful of planes. my 2 cents -Rob On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Pete Morgan ac...@daffodil.uk.com wrote: Just sent an email to New Zealand open Source and got this reply, pete Hello Peter, Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Please recognise that the GPL does not in any way preclude people from packaging up and selling a software application *so long as they comply with the terms of the GPL with regard to making the source code available on request*. It may be that these guys are *not* in violation of the GPL so long as they can provide you with their source code if you request it. If they can't, then they should be given notice of a GPL violation. There is another issue here, however: if they are packaging up wiki content, aircraft designs, et al. for which *they do not hold copyright* and which aren't licensed under a Creative Commons license allowing commercial distribution, then they *are* guilty of copyright infringement, and you can take them to task on that, *if you are (or represent) the copyright holder*. As a representative of the NZOSS, I would fully encourage you to explore both issues (the distribution of source code, and the distribution of copyrighted materials constituting potential copyright infringement) with the FlightProSim.com people. One of our other members has noted that they're similarly distributing Free!Ship: http://www.3dboatdesign.com/indexg.php http://www.3dboatdesign.com/indexg.php We'll investigate that. Let me know if you have any further questions. Kind regards, Dave Lane NZOSS council member -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Kyle Keevill kyle...@gmail.com -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks
Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!
Well you should know how to pick your fights ... you don't have to chase every single violator, just pressure the one or two who are giving you the hardest time (like this Pro-sim guy). At least by changing the license on some of the planes and art work (which are not dependent on anything already inside of flightgear) it at least gives you the power to pursue a copyright law suit. Most people will back off if you have something tangible to pursue them with. But as it stands right now, only the stolen pictures on his website are about the only copyright infringing thing he has done the flightgear community. -R On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Adam Dershowitz adershow...@exponent.comwrote: That only helps make it clear if someone is violating a copyright. It doesn't help enforce it. If the license is changed, and then someone were to go and sell FG with those aircraft who would hire the lawyer bring the copyright violation law suit? --Adam On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:26 PM, kyle keevill wrote: Last I heard, The GPL license was applied to all the planes hosted on the FG website. I do believe however, that if we do take our own planes and put them in a restrictive CC license and then give permission for FG and only FG to use them, then we may be able to do some good. On Mar 16, 2010, at 7:18 PM, Rob Oates wrote: Hmm, why not change the license on some of the newer planes to a more restrictive creative commons license? This would give you more control over how these are used. For instance, you could apply the license so the planes could only be use for non-commercial/free projects, and if a commercial project wanted to use your planes then they would have to request permission to use them. I think that is a fair trade off. Besides commercial companies should be trying to improve the underlying Flight Dynamic Model and terrain system ... not trying to getting rich quick off of our pretty planes. The GPL license should apply some probably just a handful of planes. my 2 cents -Rob On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Pete Morgan ac...@daffodil.uk.comwrote: Just sent an email to New Zealand open Source and got this reply, pete Hello Peter, Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Please recognise that the GPL does not in any way preclude people from packaging up and selling a software application *so long as they comply with the terms of the GPL with regard to making the source code available on request*. It may be that these guys are *not* in violation of the GPL so long as they can provide you with their source code if you request it. If they can't, then they should be given notice of a GPL violation. There is another issue here, however: if they are packaging up wiki content, aircraft designs, et al. for which *they do not hold copyright* and which aren't licensed under a Creative Commons license allowing commercial distribution, then they *are* guilty of copyright infringement, and you can take them to task on that, *if you are (or represent) the copyright holder*. As a representative of the NZOSS, I would fully encourage you to explore both issues (the distribution of source code, and the distribution of copyrighted materials constituting potential copyright infringement) with the FlightProSim.com people. One of our other members has noted that they're similarly distributing Free!Ship: http://www.3dboatdesign.com/indexg.php http://www.3dboatdesign.com/indexg.php We'll investigate that. Let me know if you have any further questions. Kind regards, Dave Lane NZOSS council member -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Kyle Keevill kyle...@gmail.com -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See
Re: [Flightgear-devel] autopilot
Thanks for the explanation , that does help clear a few things .I'll probably redo these files again shortly . Cheers On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:34 AM, Torsten Dreyer tors...@t3r.de wrote: Hello ... After the recent autopilot update , altitude hold doesn't work anymore for me , (using pi-simple-controller) Im not sure what effect to expect with the anti-windup addition , but my guess is it's just exposing my poor configuration. Syd, if you are referring to the b1900d or the Bravo, the only autopilot controllers that could be affected by the patch might be for the b1900d - Vertical Speed Hold - Descent FPM - IAS and the Bravo - Vnav Hold 1 Unless I didn't introduce a bug, pi-simple-controller with a Ki of zero (aka pure gain) should not show a behaviour other than before the change. Curt made a nice description of anti-windup at http://www.flightgear.org/Docs/XMLAutopilot/node3.html quote Integrator wind up can occur when the system simply can't get to the target value, even at full control input. For instance a large truck commanded to go 90km/hr might slow to 70km/hr on a steep hill even at full throttle. During this time while climbing the hill, the integrator term is accumulating a tremendous amount of error. This is called integrator windup. Once you hit the crest of the hill you have to overshoot the target speed for a while to ``unwind'' the integrator term (which at this point may have grown very large.) This can cause you to significantly over-speed for as long as you were undershooting the target. This can lead to many unsafe and unstable situations so ``integrator windup'' is generally considered an undesirable /quote Please let me know, if I can help fixing the problem. Torsten -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Instant Replay, and it's recording of A/C parameters
As I have not been able to find any doc's or forum topics expounding on it, could someone explain a few things to me about Instant Replay? First off, what parameters are logged by it, or what defines if a parameter is logged by it? ie, thrust reverser use do not replay, but flaps do. This doesn't seem to be by model builder choice (?), unless Instant Replay is tied into multi-player parameters? Secondly, in using it to test a few modifications, I found this sort-of-an-issue. I say sort-of, for it would be rare for someone to find it. Took me 2 years. - If you start FG, and attempt to use Instant Replay with the default 90 second timeframe in _less than 60 seconds Sim time_, FG will crash with a CullVisitor~nan nan nan error. - And so, if you start FG and set the replay time for a shorter period than sim time, it will work. makes sense, other than it shouldn't crash FG. But, if you wait for the Sim clock in the property browser to reach 60 seconds, you can enter _ANY_ duration into the replay time menu (200 seconds for example), and the replay function will simply drop you back at the spawn location until the clock counts down to your spawn and movement time. So, why won't it do that under 60 seconds? I only found the issue since I was attempting to see what I could make work in replay. So, it's not really an issue, but thought I'd pass it along. If someone can fill me in on the first question about what is or can be tied into the replay function for aircraft parameters, that would be great. Thanks, Peter ref: tested senario in 2 aircraft and the mibs, to ensure consistency. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
