date:20110922

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 16:43:47 +0200, Paul wrote in message 
4e5a5423.8060...@simtechnologies.de:

..bull snip
 Instead
 they would like to see their copyright enforced and not abused by
 others. 

..an honorable and reasonable request.  Are you and your add-on guys
able to fund the copyright enforcement litigation?

 AFAIK open source licenses in generall are about the programs
 and their code, not the conent people create with this software. 

..wrong, FG's GPL license and copyright law covers _all_ authored 
content, it be code, docs, pictures, textures, fdms etc.

..once you modify someone elses content, you own your own 
modifications and can enforce your own copyrights in courts 
as vigorously as you damned please, and look forward to put 
those piracy abusers in jail.  

.._this_ is what scares Bill Gates et al about the GPL, it simply 
walks away and leaves you at the mercy of copyright law teeth 
in criminal courts, rather than cosy  decades of contract law 
litigation in civil courts.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Problems with compiling Flightgear

2011-09-22 Thread James Turner


On 22 Sep 2011, at 09:07, Jason Cox wrote:

 I am having an issue with compiling the lattest git version due to a
 lack of a libhal on my system
 
 after check the web site for libhal
 (http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/hal) I found that it now in
 maintenance mode and they are switching to udisk,upower as a
 replacement.
 
 This in turn make lib hal unsupported on my system as Gentoo has already
 gone to upower and disabled both hal and upower on the same system.

Yep, I'll flip back the logic for this in Git (unless someone beats me to it). 
Unfortunately this probably means switching to a less portable way of accessing 
the information on Linux.

James


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Problems with compiling Flightgear

On Thursday 22 September 2011 11:07:48 Jason Cox wrote:
 Hi all,
 I am having an issue with compiling the lattest git version due to a
 lack of a libhal on my system
 
 after check the web site for libhal
 (http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/hal) I found that it now in
 maintenance mode and they are switching to udisk,upower as a
 replacement.
 
 This in turn make lib hal unsupported on my system as Gentoo has already
 gone to upower and disabled both hal and upower on the same system.
 
 
 is there any plans to move over?
 my problem is in  src/Input/FGLinuxEventInput.hxx
 
 and is as follows
 g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../src/Include -I../.. -I../../src
 -I../../src/Main -I/usr/include/dbus-1.0 -I/usr/lib64/dbus-1.0/include
 -I/usr/lib/dbus-1.0/include
 -I/data/flightgear/NEW/install/simgear/include
 -I/data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include -I/usr/local/include
 -DPKGLIBDIR=\/data/flightgear/NEW/install/fgfs/share/flightgear\ -g
 -O2 -Wall -I/data/flightgear/NEW/install/simgear -D_REENTRANT -MT
 input.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/input.Tpo -c -o input.o input.cxx
 In file included from input.cxx:46:
 FGLinuxEventInput.hxx:28:24: error: hal/libhal.h: No such file or
 directory
 In file included
 from /data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include/plib/js.h:28,
  from FGJoystickInput.hxx:35,
  from input.cxx:35:
 /data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include/plib/ul.h: In function 'short
 unsigned int ulEndianReadLittle16(FILE*)':
 /data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include/plib/ul.h:471: warning:
 ignoring return value of 'size_t fread(void*, size_t, size_t, FILE*)',
 declared with attribute warn_unused_result
 /data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include/plib/ul.h: In function
 'unsigned int ulEndianReadLittle32(FILE*)':
 /data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include/plib/ul.h:477: warning:
 ignoring return value of 'size_t fread(void*, size_t, size_t, FILE*)',
 declared with attribute warn_unused_result
 /data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include/plib/ul.h: In function 'float
 ulEndianReadLittleFloat(FILE*)':
 /data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include/plib/ul.h:483: warning:
 ignoring return value of 'size_t fread(void*, size_t, size_t, FILE*)',
 declared with attribute warn_unused_result
 /data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include/plib/ul.h: In function 'short
 unsigned int ulEndianReadBig16(FILE*)':
 /data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include/plib/ul.h:489: warning:
 ignoring return value of 'size_t fread(void*, size_t, size_t, FILE*)',
 declared with attribute warn_unused_result
 /data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include/plib/ul.h: In function
 'unsigned int ulEndianReadBig32(FILE*)':
 /data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include/plib/ul.h:495: warning:
 ignoring return value of 'size_t fread(void*, size_t, size_t, FILE*)',
 declared with attribute warn_unused_result
 /data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include/plib/ul.h: In function 'float
 ulEndianReadBigFloat(FILE*)':
 /data/flightgear/NEW/install/plib/include/plib/ul.h:501: warning:
 ignoring return value of 'size_t fread(void*, size_t, size_t, FILE*)',
 declared with attribute warn_unused_result
 In file included from input.cxx:46:
 FGLinuxEventInput.hxx: At global scope:
 FGLinuxEventInput.hxx:76: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of
 'LibHalContext' with no type
 FGLinuxEventInput.hxx:76: error: expected ';' before '*' token
 make[2]: *** [input.o] Error 1
 make[2]: Leaving directory
 `/data/flightgear/NEW/fgfs/flightgear/src/Input'
 make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
 make[1]: Leaving directory `/data/flightgear/NEW/fgfs/flightgear/src'
 make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
 
 all help appreciated
 Jason Cox
Jason, you might want to use the ebuilds in the gamerlay overlay (layman -a 
gamerlay). They're pretty well maintained.

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[Flightgear-devel] Strange Build Result

2011-09-22 Thread Paul Guhl

I produced project files with CMake and built FG release 2.4.0 with 
MSVS2008 (latest service pack, built on Windows7 64bit). The overall 
process worked with minor glitches, but executable has only 5.18Mb 
compared to 9.2MB of the FG Release. It runs, the initialization phase 
succeeds successfully, but in the virtual environment i only see the HUD 
bars and sky color background. The application menue is fully 
operational. The only option i left out is the SVN dependency. Tried to 
run my executable in fully built own environment as well as in the 
release 2.4.0 installer provided one with the same result.

Any idea?

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Any alpha testers with a bit of extra time on their hands?

2011-09-22 Thread Geoff McLane

Hi Curt,

Always a bunny to try NEW things, and eventually
got there ;=)) 

I think you should for sure say somewhere to 
add the option --carrier=Vinson when running 
fgfs, either via fgrun, or on the command 
line... Of course this is implied, but my first 
attempt was without this ;=((

And it would also be good to mention the 
aircraft is the --aircraft=f_14b-uas option... 
if not using fgrun, or 'Drone f-14b' in fgrun...
Again implied, but not stated...

So -
1. Backed up, and unzipped into f-14b
2. Loaded drone --aircraft=f-14b-uas
3. Deselected Nimitz, and selected Vinson
4. Exit and restart

Attempt 1:
--

But am placed on runway 10L at KSFO... with 
a view of my wheels... so ok, I launch, and 
it starts to circle KSFO at a very low altitude...
Then click Go Home, and it heads and finds 
Vinson out to sea... but refuses to land...

It looks like it is lining up, but on each 
approach, after it changed the flight task to 
'downwind', it circles there... many circles,
and circles...

Pushing Go Home again, changes flight task to 
'gohome' but on close approach, with flaps 
down, it veers to the left, and switches 
to 'downwind' again...

After a few repeats of this, it eventually 
switched to  'final' and crashed into the 
sea on a too steep right banking maneuver...

A reset put me back at KSFO...

At least on reset the HUD appeared ;=)) I 
had not particularly noticed its absence until 
it suddenly appeared ;=()

Tried another Launch! and when circling 
KSFO, again GoHome... This was much better in 
that it went from 'gohome', to 'downwind', to 
'final', to 'flare'...

But the carrier approach was WILD, with too 
large a left and right swings over and past the 
center landing line... over compensating...

And at 'flare' it was BELOW the carrier 
deck level, and crashed into the behind of 
the carrier...

Exit fgfs to think...

Attempt 2:
--

Then eventually thought of, and found the 
--carrier=Vinson option, so this 2nd attempt 
initialized on the Carrier... PHEW ;=))

But after Launch, circle a bit, then Go Home,
crashed into the sea on 'downwind'... in a 
too steep bank... so reset

2nd takeoff, circle, and click gohome, and 
eventually, had a good landing ;=))

From downwind - final - flare - touchdown - 
shutdown - end - and HAPPINESS...

Attached below is the usage and console output...

Answers and comments:

Yes, eventually got it 'working', but see the 
suggested clear addition of the --aircraft=f-14b-uas
and --carrier=Vinson to the instructions somewhere...

Having also played a little with auto line up and 
landing code logic I do understand this is a time 
consuming 'art', but was quite shocked by the 
multiple CRASHES before one good landing...

Wild left and right crossing, steep banking and 
losing altitude into the sea, and crashing 'below' 
deck level need to be worked on... And these are 
strange, in that the final good landing was 
VERY smooth indeed...

Your 'Reset' seems to reset more than just your 
scenario... I had disabled Global weather fetch, 
and cleared the clouds, but after your 'reset' 
they returned...

And just to round out the state - ... display, 
the 'gohome' state should be added to the 
output... there is nothing between -
state - circle
state - downwind

Overall, quite some FUN ;=))

Interesting addition, so it could be put on 
display somewhere - an [ ] Auto-loop option,
where an internal 'Launch!' is done, and 
after circling for say a few minutes, an 
internal 'gohome' done, and at the 'end', 
an internal 'reset', back to 'launch'... etc

This 'Auto-loop' option could also vary the 
'view' each few minutes ... camera - cockpit 
- chase - flyby - camera...

HTH.

Regards,
Geoff.

Attempt 1: Missed --carrier=Vinson option and disaster
==

run_fgfs.sh: Running: ./fgfs --fg-root=/home/geoff/fg/fg16/fgfs/data
--aircraft=f-14b-uas --timeofday=noon
Processing command line arguments
Failed to find parking position  at airport KSFO
FGMultiplayMgr - No receiver port. Multiplayer mode disabled.
Initializing Liveries
HERE: crs = 149.9436573031764 dist = 148.2411422427136
loading scenario 'vinson_demo'
getting flightplan: Cruise-1
AIShip: Cruise-1 initializing waypoints 
AIShip: Cruise-1 done initialising waypoints 0
creating 3D noise texture... DONE
Pilot dual control ... initialized
Initializing F-14B Systems
Initializing F-14B fuel system
Initializing F-14B weapons system
Initializing Radar Data
Initializing drone autoflight system.
state - init-settle
state - pretakeoff
state - takeoff
state - climbout
state - route
state - circle
Scaling image
'/home/geoff/fg/fg16/fgfs/data/Models/Maritime/Military/HeloPaint.png'
from (700,446) to (512,512)
state - downwind
state - downwind
state - downwind
state - downwind
state - downwind
state - downwind
state - downwind
state - downwind
state - final
[crashed into sea]
Saving F-14B fuel levels
passed invalid index (0) to FGRouteMgr::jumpToIndex
AIShip: Cruise-1

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Any alpha testers with a bit of extra time on their hands?

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for checking it out!  I was starting to get worried by the complete
silence that no one would try this at all. :-)

I'll tweak the instructions a bit as per your comments.  And if you (or
anyone else) has any other points that should be clarified or fixed, just
holler.  I will probably eventually post this on the DIYdrones site to see
if we can pull in some of those guys to give FlightGear a try -- so I would
like the instructions to be as newbie friendly as possible.

With respect to the instability on the downwind and final legs of the
approach, could you turn on your frame rate counter and see what kind of
frame rates you are getting.  In my experience the F-14b is very sensitive
to low frame rates and when the frame rates drop below about 17 I have a
*lot* of trouble flying manually or via autopilot.  It has a pretty complex
flight control system wired in and I have tried to build my autopilot on top
of that rather than remove/replace it all.

I originally started this process with the seahawk/nimitz, but at some point
switched to the f-14b and the vinson because the models were so much more
detailed.

Reset: this is calling the main FlightGear reset (just like selecting it
from the File menu) so yes indeed it does reset everything to original start
up conditions.

And just to reiterate, if anyone tries this and has a lot of trouble with
stability in the autoland system, I'd be very interested in hearing what
kind of frame rates they were seeing at the time.

Thanks for being a bunny even though I'm not familiar with that expression
(at least in this context). :-)

Curt.


On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Geoff McLane wrote:

 Hi Curt,

 Always a bunny to try NEW things, and eventually
 got there ;=))

 I think you should for sure say somewhere to
 add the option --carrier=Vinson when running
 fgfs, either via fgrun, or on the command
 line... Of course this is implied, but my first
 attempt was without this ;=((

 And it would also be good to mention the
 aircraft is the --aircraft=f_14b-uas option...
 if not using fgrun, or 'Drone f-14b' in fgrun...
 Again implied, but not stated...

 So -
 1. Backed up, and unzipped into f-14b
 2. Loaded drone --aircraft=f-14b-uas
 3. Deselected Nimitz, and selected Vinson
 4. Exit and restart

 Attempt 1:
 --

 But am placed on runway 10L at KSFO... with
 a view of my wheels... so ok, I launch, and
 it starts to circle KSFO at a very low altitude...
 Then click Go Home, and it heads and finds
 Vinson out to sea... but refuses to land...

 It looks like it is lining up, but on each
 approach, after it changed the flight task to
 'downwind', it circles there... many circles,
 and circles...

 Pushing Go Home again, changes flight task to
 'gohome' but on close approach, with flaps
 down, it veers to the left, and switches
 to 'downwind' again...

 After a few repeats of this, it eventually
 switched to  'final' and crashed into the
 sea on a too steep right banking maneuver...

 A reset put me back at KSFO...

 At least on reset the HUD appeared ;=)) I
 had not particularly noticed its absence until
 it suddenly appeared ;=()

 Tried another Launch! and when circling
 KSFO, again GoHome... This was much better in
 that it went from 'gohome', to 'downwind', to
 'final', to 'flare'...

 But the carrier approach was WILD, with too
 large a left and right swings over and past the
 center landing line... over compensating...

 And at 'flare' it was BELOW the carrier
 deck level, and crashed into the behind of
 the carrier...

 Exit fgfs to think...

 Attempt 2:
 --

 Then eventually thought of, and found the
 --carrier=Vinson option, so this 2nd attempt
 initialized on the Carrier... PHEW ;=))

 But after Launch, circle a bit, then Go Home,
 crashed into the sea on 'downwind'... in a
 too steep bank... so reset

 2nd takeoff, circle, and click gohome, and
 eventually, had a good landing ;=))

 From downwind - final - flare - touchdown -
 shutdown - end - and HAPPINESS...

 Attached below is the usage and console output...

 Answers and comments:

 Yes, eventually got it 'working', but see the
 suggested clear addition of the --aircraft=f-14b-uas
 and --carrier=Vinson to the instructions somewhere...

 Having also played a little with auto line up and
 landing code logic I do understand this is a time
 consuming 'art', but was quite shocked by the
 multiple CRASHES before one good landing...

 Wild left and right crossing, steep banking and
 losing altitude into the sea, and crashing 'below'
 deck level need to be worked on... And these are
 strange, in that the final good landing was
 VERY smooth indeed...

 Your 'Reset' seems to reset more than just your
 scenario... I had disabled Global weather fetch,
 and cleared the clouds, but after your 'reset'
 they returned...

 And just to round out the state - ... display,
 the 'gohome' state should be added to the
 output... there is nothing between -
 state - circle
 state - downwind

Re: [Flightgear-devel] terragear-cs apt.dat 850 runway support

2011-09-22 Thread Christian Schmitt

Christian Schmitt wrote:

 Hi there,
 
 i just want to announce that I added support for the 850 apt.dat runways
 to genapts. This work is thought as a compliment to the currently ongoing
 development towards curved taxiways.
 The current state is that genapts reads runways and creates them
 accordingly.
 

Oh, and by the way: I'm still searching for the runway texture paintkit as 
mentioned here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-
de...@lists.sourceforge.net/msg25639.html

If not, we might want to take another approach on recreating them...


Chris

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Any alpha testers with a bit of extra time on their hands?

2011-09-22 Thread Geoff McLane

Hi Curt,

A pleasure, and FUN ;=))

Yes, I know a low frame rate can play havoc when 
you are trying to fine control an aircraft from 
its attitude feedback, and I should have mentioned my 
rate, but is always in the high 50-70 fps range in this 
Ubuntu machine... so should NOT be a factor...

I just did another few runs, and this time it crashed 
just while circling... it was in a right bank, which 
got too much and the nose came up, and it stalled... 
I am mostly in the 'chase' view...

The first time this happened at 2000 feet, it caught 
itself - leveled a bit and bumped the throttles, and 
began climbing back... 

But a little later, 20-30 secs, it happened again, and 
this time was still too low to recover, and SPLASH...

I had not previously let it fly in the 'circle' mode 
for too long, but now note if I leave it in circling 
mode, it will eventually end up in the water... seldom 
lasts more than 5 or 10 minutes...

You seem to be deliberately holding its speed down 
around 150 - I see air-brakes come up when greater 
than this, and throttle back - and although flaps (I think 
full flap?) are still applied, 150 must be quite 'low' 
for this sleek bird...

And I am not sure how many degrees each marking on 
the hud bottom bank indicator represents, and while it 
starts the banking in between the 1 and 2 of the 'big' marks, 
at the stall point it is beyond the 2nd big mark, approaching,
even reaching the 3rd big mark, which is on the 
horizontal - ie 90 degrees!

At the moment of stall it loses 1200-1400 feet in 1-3 
seconds... while it can happen in a right or left turn, 
it does seem to happen quicker in a right turn...

I now understand the 'reset' is a full sim reset, 
but that is not too helpful if you have set up say a 
particular weather, wind or something that you want to 
repeat... must get around to feeding that in, in 
the command, so a reset puts it back (I hope)...

If you could describe a bit more where some of this 
is decided/calculated I too could try tweaking some 
values...

I would probably bump the speed a little, and really 
watch the bank angle... those stubby little wings do 
not give much lift anyway, but the slender body gives 
close to none ;=))

As mentioned, I too have more than a passing interest 
in automated flight control...

Regards,
Geoff.

PS: OT: I too searched a little for the expression to be 
a 'bunny', but could not really find anything ;=((

I am sure it comes from my Australian origin, and 
has the meaning to take the rap, take the medicine, 
sort of to be the guinea pig...

Why poor little bunny rabbits feature I just do 
not know ;=))

Maybe from when Australia had a big war on 
rabbits _MANY_ years ago, and put out millions 
of traps for the bunnies, as well as other methods, 
like poisons - myxomatosis... 

So to be a bunny was to be trapped ;=(())

Maybe other Australian's have a better memory than me,
and can explain it better, but meantime I will blame 
my parents, or the Australian educational system, for 
giving me such a stupid expression ;=()

On reading up on 'to be a Guinea Pig', another 
very confusing expression - not really a 'pig' and not 
from Guinea! - I found a reference that in Johnston's 
Natural History, they go by the name Spanish Coney. And 
'coney' was the old name for a rabbit, a bunny... Huh!

Maybe the early immigrants to Australia decided to mix 
it up even more! ;=)) Or got it confused on the long 
boat ride half way around the world...


On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 11:00 -0500, Curtis Olson wrote:
 Hi Geoff,
 
 
 Thanks for checking it out!  I was starting to get worried by the
 complete silence that no one would try this at all. :-)
 
 
 I'll tweak the instructions a bit as per your comments.  And if you
 (or anyone else) has any other points that should be clarified or
 fixed, just holler.  I will probably eventually post this on the
 DIYdrones site to see if we can pull in some of those guys to give
 FlightGear a try -- so I would like the instructions to be as newbie
 friendly as possible.
 
 With respect to the instability on the downwind and final legs of the
 approach, could you turn on your frame rate counter and see what kind
 of frame rates you are getting.  In my experience the F-14b is very
 sensitive to low frame rates and when the frame rates drop below about
 17 I have a *lot* of trouble flying manually or via autopilot.  It has
 a pretty complex flight control system wired in and I have tried to
 build my autopilot on top of that rather than remove/replace it all.
 
 I originally started this process with the seahawk/nimitz, but at some
 point switched to the f-14b and the vinson because the models were so
 much more detailed.
 
 
 Reset: this is calling the main FlightGear reset (just like selecting
 it from the File menu) so yes indeed it does reset everything to
 original start up conditions.
 
 
 And just to reiterate, if anyone tries this and has a lot of trouble
 with stability in the autoland system, I'd be

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Any alpha testers with a bit of extra time on their hands?

On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:03:43 -0500, Curtis wrote in message
CAHtsj_cKv-ZEsXm-1h_+QVZtRUez6yUBHmLzccs=4jk=myr...@mail.gmail.com:

I have something here that I think is kind of fun. I've been
fiddling with this off and on since last fall and decided it was time
to clean it up a bit and quit hording all the fun for myself.
Basically I have taken the F-14b and created a high performance Navy
drone out of it. It can auto-launch from a carrier, auto fly a
route (if you've input one) and can do circle holds (compensating for
wind.) I've added a simulated gyro stabilized camera that will point
at anything you click on and then hold that view steady no matter
what the airplane does (similar to what real uav's can do.)

..you saw these? TDL allows tracking moving targets, like your A380:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=1GhNXHCQGsM
http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/Z.Kalal/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/31/zdenek-kalals-object-tracking-algorithm-learns-on-the-fly-like/

I put together a quick web page that includes more of an explanation
and description of what the demo does. I have a link to a zip file
you need to download. This must be extracted over the top of the
existing f-14b as per the installation instructions on the following
web site:

http://www.flightgear.org/uas-demo/

..now, will FG run on a pee wee eeepc?

Thanks!

Curt.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Any alpha testers with a bit of extra time on their hands?

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Geoff McLane wrote:

 Hi Curt,

 A pleasure, and FUN ;=))

 Yes, I know a low frame rate can play havoc when
 you are trying to fine control an aircraft from
 its attitude feedback, and I should have mentioned my
 rate, but is always in the high 50-70 fps range in this
 Ubuntu machine... so should NOT be a factor...


Ok, 50-70 should be perfect.


 I just did another few runs, and this time it crashed
 just while circling... it was in a right bank, which
 got too much and the nose came up, and it stalled...
 I am mostly in the 'chase' view...


This is really strange.  I have seen nothing like this except when I
inadvertantly applied external control inputs through a strange combination
of linux virtual desktops and flightgear capturing the hotkey to come back
to the FlightGear virtual desktop.

So two thoughts here.  If you have a joystick connected, could you try
unplugging it to see if that helps?  Could you also press 5 on the numeric
keypad to make sure all the flight control inputs are centered.  Because of
the way the F-14b FCS is wired together in combination with the yasim flight
surfaces, you can still input elevator and aileron and trim and cause
conflicts that you might not see in other simpler aircraft that use aileron
and elevator directly.

The first time this happened at 2000 feet, it caught
 itself - leveled a bit and bumped the throttles, and
 began climbing back...

 But a little later, 20-30 secs, it happened again, and
 this time was still too low to recover, and SPLASH...

 I had not previously let it fly in the 'circle' mode
 for too long, but now note if I leave it in circling
 mode, it will eventually end up in the water... seldom
 lasts more than 5 or 10 minutes...

 You seem to be deliberately holding its speed down
 around 150 - I see air-brakes come up when greater
 than this, and throttle back - and although flaps (I think
 full flap?) are still applied, 150 must be quite 'low'
 for this sleek bird...


Normal landing approach in the real aircraft I believe is about 120 kts?  I
fly 135 kt approaches in the simulator.  It should be able to hold 150 kts
with the flaps down pretty easily.  The point of slowing way down when
circling is to keep the circle radius small enough so you can see what you
are looking at.  If you fly the circle at 600 kts, your radius will be 20
miles (just guessing) :-) and you won't be able to see anything.


 And I am not sure how many degrees each marking on
 the hud bottom bank indicator represents, and while it
 starts the banking in between the 1 and 2 of the 'big' marks,
 at the stall point it is beyond the 2nd big mark, approaching,
 even reaching the 3rd big mark, which is on the
 horizontal - ie 90 degrees!

 At the moment of stall it loses 1200-1400 feet in 1-3
 seconds... while it can happen in a right or left turn,
 it does seem to happen quicker in a right turn...

 I now understand the 'reset' is a full sim reset,
 but that is not too helpful if you have set up say a
 particular weather, wind or something that you want to
 repeat... must get around to feeding that in, in
 the command, so a reset puts it back (I hope)...


Well complain to the developers if a reset resets too agressively. :-)


 If you could describe a bit more where some of this
 is decided/calculated I too could try tweaking some
 values...

 I would probably bump the speed a little, and really
 watch the bank angle... those stubby little wings do
 not give much lift anyway, but the slender body gives
 close to none ;=))

 As mentioned, I too have more than a passing interest
 in automated flight control...

 Regards,
 Geoff.

 PS: OT: I too searched a little for the expression to be
 a 'bunny', but could not really find anything ;=((

 I am sure it comes from my Australian origin, and
 has the meaning to take the rap, take the medicine,
 sort of to be the guinea pig...


Ok, I can understand that.  Here we test cosmetics on little bunnies (so I'm
told) but I'm sure we have to shave all their hair off first.


 Why poor little bunny rabbits feature I just do
 not know ;=))

 Maybe from when Australia had a big war on
 rabbits _MANY_ years ago, and put out millions
 of traps for the bunnies, as well as other methods,
 like poisons - myxomatosis...

 So to be a bunny was to be trapped ;=(())

 Maybe other Australian's have a better memory than me,
 and can explain it better, but meantime I will blame
 my parents, or the Australian educational system, for
 giving me such a stupid expression ;=()

 On reading up on 'to be a Guinea Pig', another
 very confusing expression - not really a 'pig' and not
 from Guinea! - I found a reference that in Johnston's
 Natural History, they go by the name Spanish Coney. And
 'coney' was the old name for a rabbit, a bunny... Huh!


In Peru Guinea Pig is a delicacy ... cui ... never had it myself that I'm
aware of.


 Maybe the early immigrants to Australia decided to mix
 it up even more! ;=)) Or got it

[Flightgear-devel] Alaska Scenery

2011-09-22 Thread J. Holden

I've released a beta build of the area surrounding PAJN (two square degrees)
http://www.stattosoftware.com/flightgear/Alaska.zip

I've used a different technique to create the data for the underlying scenery. 
Please let me know what you think, as I'm not too happy with the outcome - I 
think it sort of underscores the difficulty of creating good scenery, 
especially through automated techniques such as the one I use.

I've already made a couple changes to the underlying shapefiles as well, 
especially to the rocks in the harbor.

Cheers
John

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Direct Draw Surface Scenery Textures

2011-09-22 Thread Durk Talsma

Hi Vivian, Emilian,


I am currently testing your new texture and I observed two things: 

First, I recently committed two additional textures for my ground network 
visualizations code, and these don't seem to work any more when using the dds 
materials files. I'm getting a simple black line not. 

Secondly, I noticed that the ground friction (which seems to be materials 
related), appears to be extremely high when using the new textures. I'm 
currently trying out the 777 at KLAX, and need to apply almost full throttle to 
in order to keep moving. Apparently only yasim aircraft are affected by this, 
but I could be wrong. I have to say that I haven't systematically tested this 
with and without the new textures, so there could be another explanation. I'm 
just reporting this, and would be happy to test this further is needed.

All in all, I do like the fresh new look though. :-)

Cheers,
Durk




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Any alpha testers with a bit of extra time on their hands?

On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 20:42:58 +0200, Arnt wrote in message
20110922204258.605fc...@nb6.lan:

On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:03:43 -0500, Curtis wrote in message
CAHtsj_cKv-ZEsXm-1h_+QVZtRUez6yUBHmLzccs=4jk=myr...@mail.gmail.com:

I have something here that I think is kind of fun. I've been
fiddling with this off and on since last fall and decided it was
time to clean it up a bit and quit hording all the fun for myself.
Basically I have taken the F-14b and created a high performance Navy
drone out of it. It can auto-launch from a carrier, auto fly a
route (if you've input one) and can do circle holds (compensating
for wind.) I've added a simulated gyro stabilized camera that will
point at anything you click on and then hold that view steady no
matter what the airplane does (similar to what real uav's can do.)

http://www.flightgear.org/uas-demo/

..now, will FG run on a pee wee eeepc?

..yes, @ 3fps, so the C172p is landable even without rudder control,
I overshot 28R and used 28L instead, centerline touch down at
taxiway N, aiming straight for full stop 'n exit on taxiway P. ;o)

..I'm on FG-1.9.1 with 3fps, what frame rate can I expect with FG-2.4?

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Any alpha testers with a bit of extra time on their hands?

Arnt, you have hijacked my thread, but if you are at 3fps with v1.9 then I'd
recommend spending $10 on ebay to get yourself a decent video card and maybe
$35 to get yourself a decent computer. :-) :-) :-)

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 20:42:58 +0200, Arnt wrote in message
20110922204258.605fc...@nb6.lan:

On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:03:43 -0500, Curtis wrote in message
CAHtsj_cKv-ZEsXm-1h_+QVZtRUez6yUBHmLzccs=4jk=myr...@mail.gmail.com:

I have something here that I think is kind of fun. I've been
fiddling with this off and on since last fall and decided it was
time to clean it up a bit and quit hording all the fun for myself.
Basically I have taken the F-14b and created a high performance Navy
drone out of it. It can auto-launch from a carrier, auto fly a
route (if you've input one) and can do circle holds (compensating
for wind.) I've added a simulated gyro stabilized camera that will
point at anything you click on and then hold that view steady no
matter what the airplane does (similar to what real uav's can do.)

..you saw these? TDL allows tracking moving targets, like your A380:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=1GhNXHCQGsM
http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/Z.Kalal/

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/31/zdenek-kalals-object-tracking-algorithm-learns-on-the-fly-like/

http://www.flightgear.org/uas-demo/

..now, will FG run on a pee wee eeepc?

..yes, @ 3fps, so the C172p is landable even without rudder control,
I overshot 28R and used 28L instead, centerline touch down at
taxiway N, aiming straight for full stop 'n exit on taxiway P. ;o)

..I'm on FG-1.9.1 with 3fps, what frame rate can I expect with FG-2.4?

--
Curtis Olson:
http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/
http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Problems with compiling Flightgear

2011-09-22 Thread Jason Cox

On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 16:10 +0300, Emilian Huminiuc wrote:

 Jason, you might want to use the ebuilds in the gamerlay overlay (layman -a 
 gamerlay). They're pretty well maintained.

nice to know but I prefer to stay at or near the current dev :)


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Problems with compiling Flightgear

On Thursday 22 September 2011 22:51:26 Jason Cox wrote:
 On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 16:10 +0300, Emilian Huminiuc wrote:
  Jason, you might want to use the ebuilds in the gamerlay overlay (layman
  -a gamerlay). They're pretty well maintained.
 
 nice to know but I prefer to stay at or near the current dev :)
 
Me too. That's why I use them, they are live ebuilds ;) 
(except for osg which was at a time a pain to maintain).

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Any alpha testers with a bit of extra time on their hands?

On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:00:49 -0500, Curtis wrote in message 
CAHtsj_crOGWDX43J5oKw7F6g12AWsRePoceNGW=a1b0txod...@mail.gmail.com:

 On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Geoff McLane wrote:

  You seem to be deliberately holding its speed down
  around 150 - I see air-brakes come up when greater
  than this, and throttle back - and although flaps (I think
  full flap?) are still applied, 150 must be quite 'low'
  for this sleek bird...
 
 
 Normal landing approach in the real aircraft I believe is about 120
 kts?  I fly 135 kt approaches in the simulator.  It should be able to
 hold 150 kts with the flaps down pretty easily.  

..the Navy guys fly approaches using AOA, not speeds, AFAIK.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Any alpha testers with a bit of extra time on their hands?

On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:36:23 -0500, Curtis wrote in message 
CAHtsj_dh0m6BJ8k8gOEB0uzC5EpGARUTz=h1dgc5-+1d0z+...@mail.gmail.com:

 Arnt, you have hijacked my thread, but if you are at 3fps with v1.9
 then I'd recommend spending $10 on ebay to get yourself a decent
 video card and maybe $35 to get yourself a decent
 computer. :-) :-) :-)

..have decent gear in my semi trailer storage, I'm on the road with
an eeepc and a bad bios battery wire on my decent laptop. ;o)

..now, how about TLD and tracking moving targets? ;o)
 On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote:
 
  On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 20:42:58 +0200, Arnt wrote in message
  20110922204258.605fc...@nb6.lan:
 
   On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:03:43 -0500, Curtis wrote in message
   CAHtsj_cKv-ZEsXm-1h_+QVZtRUez6yUBHmLzccs=4jk=myr...@mail.gmail.com:
  
   ..you saw these?  TDL allows tracking moving targets, like your
   A380:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=1GhNXHCQGsM
   http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/Z.Kalal/
   http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/31/zdenek-kalals-object-tracking-algorithm-learns-on-the-fly-like/

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Problems with compiling Flightgear

2011-09-22 Thread Jason Cox

On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 22:58 +0300, Emilian Huminiuc wrote:

 Me too. That's why I use them, they are live ebuilds ;) 
 (except for osg which was at a time a pain to maintain).

Ok I might try them tonight when I get back from work. unless the
code is patched in the meantime.

Jason


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Direct Draw Surface Scenery Textures

2011-09-22 Thread Vivian Meazza

Durk wrote:


 Hi Vivian, Emilian,
 
 
 I am currently testing your new texture and I observed two things:
 
 First, I recently committed two additional textures for my ground network
 visualizations code, and these don't seem to work any more when using the
 dds materials files. I'm getting a simple black line not.
 
 Secondly, I noticed that the ground friction (which seems to be materials
 related), appears to be extremely high when using the new textures. I'm
 currently trying out the 777 at KLAX, and need to apply almost full
 throttle to in order to keep moving. Apparently only yasim aircraft are
 affected by this, but I could be wrong. I have to say that I haven't
 systematically tested this with and without the new textures, so there
 could be another explanation. I'm just reporting this, and would be happy
 to test this further is needed.
 
 All in all, I do like the fresh new look though. :-)
 

We have been unable to reproduce this problem on Linux or Windows with a
variety of YASim ac at KLAX. We have checked materials-dds.xml against
materials.xml and there is no change in the runway friction-factor,
rolling-friction, or bumpiness tags. It seems unlikely that a change of
texture format of itself would cause the symptoms that you report. Perhaps
you could be kind enough to carry out some more testing and if the trouble
remains could you please file a bug report here:

http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/list

In closing, we would remark that these new textures have been in Gitorious a
little while now and that there have been no reports of similar issues to
date.

Thank you for your kind remarks. Development of new textures continues,
albeit at a slower pace.

Emilian  Vivian 




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Any alpha testers with a bit of extra time on their hands?

2011-09-22 Thread Citronnier - Alexis Bory

Le 22/09/2011 22:04, Arnt Karlsen a écrit :
 On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:00:49 -0500, Curtis wrote in message
 CAHtsj_crOGWDX43J5oKw7F6g12AWsRePoceNGW=a1b0txod...@mail.gmail.com:

 On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Geoff McLane wrote:
 You seem to be deliberately holding its speed down
 around 150 - I see air-brakes come up when greater
 than this, and throttle back - and although flaps (I think
 full flap?) are still applied, 150 must be quite 'low'
 for this sleek bird...

 Normal landing approach in the real aircraft I believe is about 120
 kts?  I fly 135 kt approaches in the simulator.  It should be able to
 hold 150 kts with the flaps down pretty easily.
 ..the Navy guys fly approaches using AOA, not speeds, AFAIK.
And a max 6000 lbs fuel in the tanks.
FG's f-14b is quite tricky to fly with what is *supposed* to be the 
right AoA for approach. Side departure happen easily if your aren't 
smooth enough in your final turn.

Curt, I didn't test yet, sorry, lake of time, but the last mods on 
properties in engines.nas and instrument.nas should be comited soon.

Happy to see you all playing with the beast :-)

Alexis

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Direct Draw Surface Scenery Textures

2011-09-22 Thread Vivian Meazza

Durk

 -Original Message-
 From: Durk Talsma [mailto:durkt...@gmail.com]
 Sent: 22 September 2011 20:27
 To: vivian.mea...@lineone.net; FlightGear developers discussions
 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Direct Draw Surface Scenery Textures

 Hi Vivian, Emilian,

 I am currently testing your new texture and I observed two things:

 First, I recently committed two additional textures for my ground network
 visualizations code, and these don't seem to work any more when using the
 dds materials files. I'm getting a simple black line not.

 Secondly, I noticed that the ground friction (which seems to be materials
 related), appears to be extremely high when using the new textures. I'm
 currently trying out the 777 at KLAX, and need to apply almost full
 throttle to in order to keep moving. Apparently only yasim aircraft are
 affected by this, but I could be wrong. I have to say that I haven't
 systematically tested this with and without the new textures, so there
 could be another explanation. I'm just reporting this, and would be happy
 to test this further is needed.

 All in all, I do like the fresh new look though. :-)

Erm - you did release the parking brake?

Vivian

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Direct Draw Surface Scenery Textures

On Thursday 22 September 2011 22:27:18 Durk Talsma wrote:
 Hi Vivian, Emilian,
 
 
 I am currently testing your new texture and I observed two things:
 
 First, I recently committed two additional textures for my ground network
 visualizations code, and these don't seem to work any more when using the
 dds materials files. I'm getting a simple black line not.
 
 Secondly, I noticed that the ground friction (which seems to be materials
 related), appears to be extremely high when using the new textures. I'm
 currently trying out the 777 at KLAX, and need to apply almost full
 throttle to in order to keep moving. Apparently only yasim aircraft are
 affected by this, but I could be wrong. I have to say that I haven't
 systematically tested this with and without the new textures, so there
 could be another explanation. I'm just reporting this, and would be happy
 to test this further is needed.
 
 All in all, I do like the fresh new look though. :-)
 
 Cheers,
 Durk
 
Just tested, with both materials.xml and materials-dds.xml, behaviour is 
similar and as expected, so I'm going to echo Vivian about the parking brake 
:).
As for the textures for the ground network, we might have based the materials-
dds.sml file to the one before you changes. Could you tell us what those 
textures where?

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Any alpha testers with a bit of extra time on their hands?

On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 22:36:45 +0200, Citronnier wrote in message 
4e7b9c5d.6080...@gmail.com:

 Le 22/09/2011 22:04, Arnt Karlsen a écrit :
  On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:00:49 -0500, Curtis wrote in message
  CAHtsj_crOGWDX43J5oKw7F6g12AWsRePoceNGW=a1b0txod...@mail.gmail.com:
 
  On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Geoff McLane wrote:
  You seem to be deliberately holding its speed down
  around 150 - I see air-brakes come up when greater
  than this, and throttle back - and although flaps (I think
  full flap?) are still applied, 150 must be quite 'low'
  for this sleek bird...
 
  Normal landing approach in the real aircraft I believe is about 120
  kts?  I fly 135 kt approaches in the simulator.  It should be able
  to hold 150 kts with the flaps down pretty easily.
  ..the Navy guys fly approaches using AOA, not speeds, AFAIK.
 And a max 6000 lbs fuel in the tanks.
 FG's f-14b is quite tricky to fly with what is *supposed* to be the 
 right AoA for approach. Side departure happen easily if your aren't 
 smooth enough in your final turn.

..and it does not like to T/O and climb on idle power, all Launch!!!
button action I see is wild pre-crash oscillations, the Reset button
tosses me into the cockpit rather than in the camera. 

..Curtis, any reason your demo needs the USS Vinson, rather than a
renamed USS Nimitz copy?  

..Alexis, any changes to the f-14b since FG-1.9.1?

 Curt, I didn't test yet, sorry, lake of time, but the last mods on 
 properties in engines.nas and instrument.nas should be comited soon.
 
 Happy to see you all playing with the beast :-)
 
 Alexis
 

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Direct Draw Surface Scenery Textures

2011-09-22 Thread Durk Talsma

 
 Erm - you did release the parking brake?
 

Eeemh, yes. :-) The 777 starts to make awful noises once you forget to release 
the parking brake, so you typically want to check that right away. :-)

Maybe it's just an odd glitch, but I had it very consistently today, and the 
only thing I could think of that I had recently changed was the fact that I 
changed the texture settings. 

I did recalibrate my joystick, but upon checking that, the brake function 
appears to work normally. 

And...

as shown here, I did have a severe tire problem after takeoff. :-)

http://www.durktalsma.nl/FlightGear/fgfs-screen-064.png

Cheers,
Durk 






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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Direct Draw Surface Scenery Textures

On Friday 23 September 2011 01:09:25 Durk Talsma wrote:
  Erm - you did release the parking brake?
 
 Eeemh, yes. :-) The 777 starts to make awful noises once you forget to
 release the parking brake, so you typically want to check that right away.
 :-)
 
 Maybe it's just an odd glitch, but I had it very consistently today, and
 the only thing I could think of that I had recently changed was the fact
 that I changed the texture settings.
 
 I did recalibrate my joystick, but upon checking that, the brake function
 appears to work normally.
 
 And...
 
 as shown here, I did have a severe tire problem after takeoff. :-)
 
 http://www.durktalsma.nl/FlightGear/fgfs-screen-064.png
 
 Cheers,
 Durk

That's realy strange behaviour you got there :(.

The missing textures for the ground network were my fault, forgot to convert 
and upload them :), they are now in fgdata.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Any alpha testers with a bit of extra time on their hands?

I went with the Vinson because it is spiffier.  Everything should
(theoretically) work the same and just as well from the Nimitz.  I believe
the deck geometries are identical in FlightGear (conveniently.) ;-)

Curt.


On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote:

 On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 22:36:45 +0200, Citronnier wrote in message
 4e7b9c5d.6080...@gmail.com:

  Le 22/09/2011 22:04, Arnt Karlsen a écrit :
   On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:00:49 -0500, Curtis wrote in message
   CAHtsj_crOGWDX43J5oKw7F6g12AWsRePoceNGW=a1b0txod...@mail.gmail.com:
  
   On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Geoff McLane wrote:
   You seem to be deliberately holding its speed down
   around 150 - I see air-brakes come up when greater
   than this, and throttle back - and although flaps (I think
   full flap?) are still applied, 150 must be quite 'low'
   for this sleek bird...
  
   Normal landing approach in the real aircraft I believe is about 120
   kts?  I fly 135 kt approaches in the simulator.  It should be able
   to hold 150 kts with the flaps down pretty easily.
   ..the Navy guys fly approaches using AOA, not speeds, AFAIK.
  And a max 6000 lbs fuel in the tanks.
  FG's f-14b is quite tricky to fly with what is *supposed* to be the
  right AoA for approach. Side departure happen easily if your aren't
  smooth enough in your final turn.

 ..and it does not like to T/O and climb on idle power, all Launch!!!
 button action I see is wild pre-crash oscillations, the Reset button
 tosses me into the cockpit rather than in the camera.

 ..Curtis, any reason your demo needs the USS Vinson, rather than a
 renamed USS Nimitz copy?

 ..Alexis, any changes to the f-14b since FG-1.9.1?

  Curt, I didn't test yet, sorry, lake of time, but the last mods on
  properties in engines.nas and instrument.nas should be comited soon.
 
  Happy to see you all playing with the beast :-)
 
  Alexis
 


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Direct Draw Surface Scenery Textures

2011-09-22 Thread ThorstenB

On 23.09.2011 00:09, Durk Talsma wrote:
 I did recalibrate my joystick, but upon checking that, the brake
 function appears to work normally.
 as shown here, I did have a severe tire problem after takeoff. :-)
  http://www.durktalsma.nl/FlightGear/fgfs-screen-064.png

Hmm, but this actually means you have a brake problem after all. Only 
the brake temperature is simulated - smoke is triggered for overheated 
disc brakes. It's almost impossible that the parking brake is set 
(unless your both, deaf and blind...) but it seems like your brakes are 
slightly tightened after all. That's a safety critical issue - better 
tell maintenance personnel to check your flight gear - maybe the pedals 
are stuck... ;)

cheers,
Thorsten

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Direct Draw Surface Scenery Textures

2011-09-22 Thread Ron Jensen

On Thursday 22 September 2011 16:43:32 ThorstenB wrote:
 On 23.09.2011 00:09, Durk Talsma wrote:
  I did recalibrate my joystick, but upon checking that, the brake
  function appears to work normally.
  as shown here, I did have a severe tire problem after takeoff. :-)
 
   http://www.durktalsma.nl/FlightGear/fgfs-screen-064.png

 Hmm, but this actually means you have a brake problem after all. Only
 the brake temperature is simulated - smoke is triggered for overheated
 disc brakes. It's almost impossible that the parking brake is set
 (unless your both, deaf and blind...) but it seems like your brakes are
 slightly tightened after all. That's a safety critical issue - better
 tell maintenance personnel to check your flight gear - maybe the pedals
 are stuck... ;)

 cheers,
 Thorsten

Brakes aren't really hot until the tires burst into flames. Been there, done 
that. :)

Ron

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Any alpha testers with a bit of extra time on their hands?