Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request...
I fixed the issue of the rotation of the radar screen (I transform now only the groundnet, but for the MP user radar returns, I set /instrumentation/radar/display-controls/rotate to true, and set the local user's orientation to the magnetic variation. Works like a charm!). I also shortened the LOC guideline texture so it only reaches the outer ring -- however, if the user offsets it to the max AND rotates it to a westerly heading, it can still extend slightly off the radar screen onto the data panel or exterior "window" area. If there is a more elegant solution to that (admittedly minor) issue, I welcome it. I still need some guidance on the problem of the wind-from heading. I am pulling /environment/wind-from-heading-deg and factoring in /environment/magnetic-variation-deg (and I remembered to account for wrapping around the 360-degree mark), and writing that back to a property I am calling /sim/atc/wind-from-display, which is the one used in the instrumentation xml file which puts it on the screen. No problem. The issue here is WHERE in the Nasal script (atc.nas) do I do this so that I can be sure that the displayed, magnetic wind heading is updated along with the raw /environment/wind-from-heading-deg? I mean, I could have it update once per frame, but that's a little silly, and besides I'm not sure how Nasal works in that I'm not sure where I'd put it even if that was what I wanted to happen. I see a bunch of initial parameters and then a bunch of function declarations but I don't see where this update would go or where it'd be called from. Should it go in a separate Nasal file? A little guidance on that would be great. Thanks, -R. (MD-Terp) Robert M. Shearman, Jr. Transit Operations Supervisor, University of Maryland Department of Transportation also known as rm...@umd.edu From: syd adams To: FlightGear developers discussions Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 5:17:23 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request... It's looking good so far ... I haven't tested it yet myself , but if the guidelines are a separate texture , you can have them clipped my making the "instrument" the same dimensions as the radar screen ... cheers -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request...
It's looking good so far ... I haven't tested it yet myself , but if the guidelines are a separate texture , you can have them clipped my making the "instrument" the same dimensions as the radar screen ... cheers -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request...
Syd, Csaba, et al... This is by no means complete, or really even close... and I'm not done trying, but I'm just taking a little break from working on it. I just wanted to show you progress and get your input, in case there are any major problems with it so far (particularly in the Nasal). By the way, I know that the bigger radar screen obstructs most of the window, but I consider it an improvement, at least as a matter of personal preference. Your mileage may vary. http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll209/rmsjr1974/atcrmsjr-01-setloc.jpg http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll209/rmsjr1974/atcrmsjr-02-markfinal.jpg http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll209/rmsjr1974/atcrmsjr-03-markfinal.jpg http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll209/rmsjr1974/atcrmsjr-04-markfinal.jpg NOTES: When the sim boots up and initializes, the radar scope view will be set to a range of 1. Before zooming out, use CTRL-J and K to rotate the localizer guide paralell with the intended arrival runway, then use CTRL-G and H to move it left and right until aligned with it. Now you can zoom out to your preferred view distance and the localizer guide will self-adjust to remain on the centerline as you defined it. Also, please note that all heading references (on the screen and also in the data panel) are given in MAGNETIC. KNOWN BUGS / ISSUES: (1) The localizer guideline extends past the edge of the radar screen. (2) The current transformation for the radar screen actually rotates the screen itself, rather than just the indicators on it. I presume I have to connect the magnetic variation to the user's orientation in order to correct this. I think I can work that out myself, following what was done in ATC2. (3) The wind heading only updates when a target's info is updated, since I could not figure out where else in the Nasal script to put this operation. I tried to attach that script to a listener which would trigger when /environment/wind-from-heading-deg changes, but I didn't do it right, I guess. So I just threw it in the Target Update script for now. (Yes, I know that's not a great place for it!) PLANNED IMPROVEMENTS: (1) Panel hotspots to toggle and maneuver the localizer guide. Right now that can only be done with the CTRL-keys indicated above. I can add those, no problem. (2) Commands activated by either (well, really, both) CTRL-key and panel hotspots which prepare canned directives to the target plane. I want to do this in such a way that the piece to be added (i.e. which heading, which altitude, which runway) is always at the end of the message. I can manage this part, I think, based on what's already there. (3) Prettier panel and buttons. Shading for 3D effect, etcetera. I can do that on my own as well, but I just wanted to have something quick-and-dirty to test with for now. Here it is... look at it... play with it... tell me what a hack I am... improve it... give it back to me. :) LOL http://filebin.ca/mdscns/ATC-rmsjr.zip Cheers, -R. (MD-Terp) Robert M. Shearman, Jr. Transit Operations Supervisor, University of Maryland Department of Transportation also known as rm...@umd.edu - Forwarded Message From: "Rob Shearman, Jr." To: FlightGear Developers Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 5:12:27 AM Subject: Fw: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request... Syd et al -- Me: > "I'll also see what I can come up with by way of my own solutions." I actually have hacked together an ATC version that (in my own opinion, of course) takes the best features of V1 and V2 and combines them, but also with a bigger radar screen, and the makings of a localizer guideline. I'm not the coder you guys are (yet... someday!) so I'm stumbling through a lot of the Nasal, but it's coming together better than I thought. It stores both a heading (rotation transformation) and an offset (x-shift transformation). While I haven't yet implemented the hotspots and CTRL-keys to change the settings, I have it working well enough now that if I align it with a runway, the x-shift scales with the radar scope scale setting, so it remains aligned no matter what the zoom level is. One problem I'm having right now is that it likes to extend past the edge of the radar screen. I also stole the "Tower Adjust" and "message to target" scripts -- One of my next projects is, as you (Syd) mentioned before, rotating everything into magnetic heading, to avoid confusion. I'm also thinking I'm going to add a panel of "pre-canned" messages as well, so within two or three keystrokes one can say, for example, "MD-Terp, descend and maintain" and just type the altitude on the end. I may come running to you guys to see if it's possible to select an aircraft by clicking on it on the radar scope. Let me polish off what I have so f
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request...
Stuart Buchanan wrote > > syd adams wrote: > >That might be best . I know very little about what information a real > scope displays , and intercepting a radial is the pilots job , so I dont > know if > >I can bring myself to add that line ;). > > I was at a fly-in to an RAF base last week, which included a tour of their > tower. Interestingly, they still do radar-guidance (I forget the official > term) where the controller provides instructions to the pilot to bring > them to the center-line and appropriate glideslope to the runway - "Left > two degrees, slightly high...", and the guides them all the way down to > decision height. > > For this they had two radar displays, one showing the horizontal track and > one showing the vertical, with an external center-line and glideslope > marked on the display. > > I got the chance to try this out on their Tornado simulator, and it worked > pretty well. I even got a nice print-out of my track afterwards :) > Ground Controlled Approach (GCA) or CCA on a carrier. Vivian -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request...
Sounds like you guys know far more about the subject than I do . I'll see what I can do . The simplest idea I had was to overlay another transparent texture with a single line that could be rotated to the runway heading , but I dont know if that's suitable. Maybe a property enabled line could be added to the groundradar code extending from each runway , but that's more Jester's department :) Cheers -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request...
I think you're referring to a "ground-controlled approach" or GCA. However, this is not what I'm referring to -- I'm simply talking about approach controllers vectoring their planes from the end of their STARS procedure toward the localizer of the active arrival runway. Yes, intercepting it *is* the pilot's job, but the approach controller needs to get them in the vicinity of it, fare enough out, and with not too sharp a turn, and I'm pretty certain that the extended centerlines are indicated on their screens. Since I can't say this with any definitiveness, though, I understand Syd's reluctance to make changes. I'll see if I can come up with any RL references. And, as I said, I'll also see what I can come up with by way of my own solutions. I guess I'm just not patient enough for that sometimes. :) Cheers, -R. (MD-Terp) Robert M. Shearman, Jr. Transit Operations Supervisor, University of Maryland Department of Transportation also known as rm...@umd.edu From: Stuart Buchanan To: FlightGear developers discussions Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 3:28:19 AM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request... syd adams wrote: >That might be best . I know very little about what information a real scope >displays , and intercepting a radial is the pilots job , so I dont know if >I can bring myself to add that line ;). I was at a fly-in to an RAF base last week, which included a tour of their tower. Interestingly, they still do radar-guidance (I forget the official term) where the controller provides instructions to the pilot to bring them to the center-line and appropriate glideslope to the runway - "Left two degrees, slightly high...", and the guides them all the way down to decision height. For this they had two radar displays, one showing the horizontal track and one showing the vertical, with an external center-line and glideslope marked on the display. I got the chance to try this out on their Tornado simulator, and it worked pretty well. I even got a nice print-out of my track afterwards :) -Stuart -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request...
syd adams wrote: >That might be best . I know very little about what information a real scope >displays , and intercepting a radial is the pilots job , so I dont know if >I can bring myself to add that line ;). I was at a fly-in to an RAF base last week, which included a tour of their tower. Interestingly, they still do radar-guidance (I forget the official term) where the controller provides instructions to the pilot to bring them to the center-line and appropriate glideslope to the runway - "Left two degrees, slightly high...", and the guides them all the way down to decision height. For this they had two radar displays, one showing the horizontal track and one showing the vertical, with an external center-line and glideslope marked on the display. I got the chance to try this out on their Tornado simulator, and it worked pretty well. I even got a nice print-out of my track afterwards :) -Stuart -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request...
That might be best . I know very little about what information a real scope displays , and intercepting a radial is the pilots job , so I dont know if I can bring myself to add that line ;). I know , Im sure you mean this as a "training " tool, and I'll play around with ideas , but I'd be interested in what you come with also. Cheers I'm still way below the level where I can code these things on my own, but I > might be at a point now where I can compare ATC1 and ATC2 and snip out the > best bits into a cobbled-together version I like. Maybe I'll mess with that > over the coming weeks and see where I end up. > -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request...
> You can "tint" the view from the menu to darken it so the screen info displays clearer ... what about another step to blackout the background view completely? Well I really think having separate "window" and "scope" views might make it easier to discern the details, particularly the callsigns and data blocks in the scope. So next time I do ATC I will switch back to version 1 and see if I have a better experience. > a line from the tower center outward on the display that could be rotated , > but centering it on a runway might be tougher. If the extended centerlines are difficult to do, a radial from the tower would probably be a "close-enough" approximation, although of course it would never be exact since very few runways extend on radials intercepting the tower :) :) :) It's a decent work-around for now. I know you have several other projects you're working on. Maybe there's someone else on the list already working on improving the ATC set? > Another plan I had was to remove any "true heading " references , since airports deal in magnetic headings , and it just confuses issues. Indeed. Of course there's some debate over the METAR info, whether it is in true or magnetic, and I think the consensus was that it's in true? This is the first simulator I've experienced with this level of detail given to such things, so I can't really weigh in. I know that the wind display atop the ATC2 screen does "translate" it, which is nice. I'm still way below the level where I can code these things on my own, but I might be at a point now where I can compare ATC1 and ATC2 and snip out the best bits into a cobbled-together version I like. Maybe I'll mess with that over the coming weeks and see where I end up. Thanks again for the audience. Sincerely, -R. (MD-Terp) Robert M. Shearman, Jr. Transit Operations Supervisor, University of Maryland Department of Transportation also known as rm...@umd.edu From: syd adams To: FlightGear developers discussions Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2009 6:06:12 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request... I think I know what your looking for , dont know if I like the idea , but it shouldn't be too difficult. You can "tint" the view from the menu to darken it so the screen info displays clearer ... what about another step to blackout the background view completely? What comes to mind is a line from the tower center outward on the display that could be rotated , but centering it on a runway might be tougher. Another plan I had was to remove any "true heading " references , since airports deal in magnetic headings , and it just confuses issues. But there are several people tweaking it , so I thought I'd leave it alone. Im currently working on other things , but I'll see what I can do . Cheers Thanks for your consideration. I appreciate all of the effort you guys put into this project, and all of the "novelties" you think to include! :) > >Cheers, >-R. (MD-Terp) > > Robert M. Shearman, Jr. >Transit Operations Supervisor, >University of Maryland Department of Transportation >also known as rm...@umd.edu > > > >-- >>Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day >>trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on >>what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with >>Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july >___ >>Flightgear-devel mailing list >Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft, " feature request...
I think I know what your looking for , dont know if I like the idea , but it shouldn't be too difficult. You can "tint" the view from the menu to darken it so the screen info displays clearer ... what about another step to blackout the background view completely? What comes to mind is a line from the tower center outward on the display that could be rotated , but centering it on a runway might be tougher. Another plan I had was to remove any "true heading " references , since airports deal in magnetic headings , and it just confuses issues. But there are several people tweaking it , so I thought I'd leave it alone. Im currently working on other things , but I'll see what I can do . Cheers On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Rob Shearman, Jr. wrote: > Hello, Syd and Jester... > > How easy/difficult would it be to add a small detail to the radar scope > view, which would be extended centerlines for the runways? Trying to use > version 2 today, I ran into difficulty giving good localizer intercepts just > trying to eyeball the extended lines, especially when zoomed out past the > range where the runways were clearly visible. > > Also, if you are able to add this feature, I would most preferably like to > see it in both version 1 and version 2 (if that's not asking too much, of > course). Today I was using version 2, and while it was nice to have a > full-sreen view of the "live" action, it made details on the scope a little > illegible. We (the group of users participating in my "MP event" today) are > hoping to make our gathering a monthly thing, so next month I can try > version 1 instead and see if it's any better/easier. > > Thanks for your consideration. I appreciate all of the effort you guys put > into this project, and all of the "novelties" you think to include! :) > > Cheers, > -R. (MD-Terp) > > Robert M. Shearman, Jr. > Transit Operations Supervisor, > University of Maryland Department of Transportation > also known as rm...@umd.edu > > > > -- > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus > on > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ATC "aircraft," feature request...
Hello, Syd and Jester... How easy/difficult would it be to add a small detail to the radar scope view, which would be extended centerlines for the runways? Trying to use version 2 today, I ran into difficulty giving good localizer intercepts just trying to eyeball the extended lines, especially when zoomed out past the range where the runways were clearly visible. Also, if you are able to add this feature, I would most preferably like to see it in both version 1 and version 2 (if that's not asking too much, of course). Today I was using version 2, and while it was nice to have a full-sreen view of the "live" action, it made details on the scope a little illegible. We (the group of users participating in my "MP event" today) are hoping to make our gathering a monthly thing, so next month I can try version 1 instead and see if it's any better/easier. Thanks for your consideration. I appreciate all of the effort you guys put into this project, and all of the "novelties" you think to include! :) Cheers, -R. (MD-Terp) Robert M. Shearman, Jr. Transit Operations Supervisor, University of Maryland Department of Transportation also known as rm...@umd.edu -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel