Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: I simply don't see vehicle simulation as a possible venture. [...] So, I would suggest focusing resources on improving the flight aspect of the simulator instead. Certainly. Yet we might try to define what the term vehicle simulation should mean in the given context. Actually I don't expect that people would like to use FlightGear just for sitting in a driving sim, driving a car along the given roads - they're already doing it every day in real life :-) What still might make sense is to place some simple AI objects into the scene that automagically follow the given road/railroad tracks but I'm uncertain if we need a dedicated FDM for that. What _certainly_ could make sense one day is to have a manually driven tow truck at airports - once we have a few more than just 20 persons that participate in the MultiPlayer environment at the same time :-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: On June 19, 2007 05:25:24 pm Martin Spott wrote: While you are at it, don't forget simulating railway trains - their timetables are publicly available :-) _If_ they ever reach their station. Most likely they would derail at the next immediate bend... uh, I mean corner. Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: On June 19, 2007 12:04:44 pm Curtis Olson wrote: If we added some realistic automobile/truck dynamics with both manual and automatic transmissions, perhaps the ability to pull a trailer, and some sort of reasonable skid model, we would suddenly be very far down the path towards supporting those folks that are doing driving sim based research and training. And when all that have been done, one would find out that the vehicles would keep getting themselves stuck whenever they get to the top of hills. It would also be a nighmare for anyone to navigate the roads in FG. So, what's your proposal for a working solution that can be achieved with the available resources ? If your comment was meant as a joke, then please mark it as such for example by using a smilie, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
On June 21, 2007 02:54:26 am Martin Spott wrote: So, what's your proposal for a working solution that can be achieved with the available resources ? If your comment was meant as a joke, then please mark it as such for example by using a smilie, Martin. I simply don't see vehicle simulation as a possible venture. As an example: In a vehicle simulation, you need smooth terrain, meaning high resolution terrain. In a flight simulation, you want low resolution terrain because you are seeing so much terrain at a time. The two requirements go against each other. So, I would suggest focusing resources on improving the flight aspect of the simulator instead. Ampere - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: In a vehicle simulation, you need smooth terrain, meaning high resolution terrain. In a flight simulation, you want low resolution terrain because you are seeing so much terrain at a time. The two requirements go against each other. That's not entirely correct. You do not want low resolution terrain, you more or less _need_ it because of performance issues. If it'd work, I'd gladly take extra high resolution terrain to fly over. So the real way to go seems to be some sort of LOD for terrain. Nine -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGeimi1QuEJQQMVrgRAitBAJ4/kb88r4QKZFEMAZZ10yyODU31zACfWK1c VihHtIi+xf/Fn6m0tvFyzRs= =gELn -END PGP SIGNATURE- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
Nick Warne wrote: On Tuesday 19 June 2007 22:25:24 Martin Spott wrote: Vivian Meazza wrote: I also have doubts that a single fdm can accurately reproduce ship and car characteristics - [...] While you are at it, don't forget simulating railway trains - their timetables are publicly available :-) Don't bother with UK trains then, timetables or not - they are always late/cancelled at will. How you simulate that I do not know. Surely that's what /dev/random was invented for? (The buses are just as bad - The 9.05 and 9.20 just arrived at 9.27...) -- Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
Anders Gidenstam ha scritto: On Tue, 19 Jun 2007, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: attached is a patch for the osg-branch, which will introduce a new pseudo FDM for ground vehicles and (large) ships. The FDM isn't perfect, but good enough to allow driving vehicles. That's interesting. I had thoughts about towing aircrafts inside an airport once. Can you please post a preview about the movement capabilities of such a vehicles FDM? Hi, One can already tow YASim aircraft using the air tow capability. It is also fairly easy to make liftless aircraft FDM configs for ground vehicles in JSBSim - I made a simple one for a mule / small tow truck yesterday. You can get it here: http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/misc/towtruck_fgfs.tar.gz Note: it is not particularly well tuned yet.. :) Use } } space to start the engine. Cheers, Anders Interesting, but ... it doesn't start. I copyed the towtruck dir inside the Aircraft folder, started FGFS, the mule-22.ac model appears on the screen, I press } two times and then I press the space bar but the engine does not start and the truck does not move using Pag/Up and Pag/down buttons. It just moves slightly as avery aircraft does even with engine stopped (maybe because of a minimal slope on the terrain). Maybe I'm missing something? - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
* Anders Gidenstam -- Tuesday 19 June 2007: It is also fairly easy to make liftless aircraft FDM configs for ground vehicles in JSBSim - I made a simple one for a mule / small tow truck yesterday. You can get it here: http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/misc/towtruck_fgfs.tar.gz Note: it is not particularly well tuned yet.. :) Wonderful already! Browsed around with it in KNID, LOWL, and KSFO. YASim would just have been nicer as an FDM, for the surface material aware gear and the towing capabilities. One could really tow a 747 over MP with it. :-) m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
* Jon S. Berndt -- Wednesday 20 June 2007: I'd very much like to have a car FDM. A realistic one like Curt mentioned. There's Racer: http://www.racer.nl/ Yes, I know. I have it installed here and love to drive the Leyland bus (http://www.3dautos.co.uk/Racer-e.html) in Early Fall in Norway or Swiss Stroll. But its terrain (while very nice, especially the Swiss Alps) is rather limited. Driving around on an fgfs airport over MP would be nice, or on some higher-res terrain tiles. Towing real aircraft, etc. m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
Melchior FRANZ Sent: 20 June 2007 16:01 To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch) * Anders Gidenstam -- Tuesday 19 June 2007: It is also fairly easy to make liftless aircraft FDM configs for ground vehicles in JSBSim - I made a simple one for a mule / small tow truck yesterday. You can get it here: http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/misc/towtruck_fgfs.tar.gz Note: it is not particularly well tuned yet.. :) Wonderful already! Browsed around with it in KNID, LOWL, and KSFO. YASim would just have been nicer as an FDM, for the surface material aware gear and the towing capabilities. One could really tow a 747 over MP with it. :-) Hey - you can drive around the deck of Nimitz in it - great. But I couldn't get down into the hangar because it won't stay still long enough with the brakes on. Why not a YASim towtruck then we can pull ac out of the hangar etc.? And we need reverse gear. Good fun ... Now I must do something about lashings for ac on the carrier ... Vivian - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
On June 19, 2007 05:25:24 pm Martin Spott wrote: While you are at it, don't forget simulating railway trains - their timetables are publicly available :-) Martin. _If_ they ever reach their station. Most likely they would derail at the next immediate bend... uh, I mean corner. Ampere - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
attached is a patch for the osg-branch, which will introduce a new pseudo FDM for ground vehicles and (large) ships. The FDM isn't perfect, but good enough to allow driving vehicles. That's interesting. I had thoughts about towing aircrafts inside an airport once. Can you please post a preview about the movement capabilities of such a vehicles FDM? Roberto - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: attached is a patch for the osg-branch, which will introduce a new pseudo FDM for ground vehicles and (large) ships. The FDM isn't perfect, but good enough to allow driving vehicles. That's interesting. I had thoughts about towing aircrafts inside an airport once. Can you please post a preview about the movement capabilities of such a vehicles FDM? Hi, One can already tow YASim aircraft using the air tow capability. It is also fairly easy to make liftless aircraft FDM configs for ground vehicles in JSBSim - I made a simple one for a mule / small tow truck yesterday. You can get it here: http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/misc/towtruck_fgfs.tar.gz Note: it is not particularly well tuned yet.. :) Use } } space to start the engine. Cheers, Anders -- --- Anders Gidenstam mail: anders(at)gidenstam.org WWW: http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/JSBSim-LTA/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007, Anders Gidenstam wrote: One can already tow YASim aircraft using the air tow capability. It is also fairly easy to make liftless aircraft FDM configs for ground vehicles in JSBSim - I made a simple one for a mule / small tow truck yesterday. You can get it here: http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/misc/towtruck_fgfs.tar.gz Btw. this doesn't mean I think a separate vehicle FDM is unnecessary or a bad idea - building the type of FDM config I did is a mix of real and fake physics that might not please everybody. It is also a bit tricky to get to work just right (something I also can't claim to be able to myself.. :). OTOH one important question to consider is whether a vehicle FDM in FlightGear should attempt to model real physics or be more like a earth-bound UFO. Cheers, Anders -- --- Anders Gidenstam mail: anders(at)gidenstam.org WWW: http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/JSBSim-LTA/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
OTOH one important question to consider is whether a vehicle FDM in FlightGear should attempt to model real physics or be more like a earth-bound UFO. Anders That depends on what developers/users need. I can think about a few different usages with peculiar implementations. I see people like to record video MP flight sessions; having a few separate users controlling a few ground vehicles (like tow tractors) moving around could help in directing the scene. There's even the possibility to let users drive around a scenery while others are flying in the sky (think about a simulation of a flight festival like Oshkosh), amazing show :-) Animating generic AI ground city traffic could be spectacular when flying very low on a populated area. That's a plus for those people wanting to create a high quality video recording of a flight simulation demo. People like to see aircrafts flying above a city skyline and disappearing behind the skyscrapers, the city looks more real when populated with moving vehicles. Don't even forget trains. We have railroads in our scenery meshes, but we do not have trains running around. As you see my point of view is strictly related to ground simulation (I'm not a pilot at all, although I enjoy learning the basics of aircraft flying with FGFS). You will be more interested in other aspects, I'm shure. I would suggest creating a simple but completely controllable and customizable ground vehicle FDM. Basic capabilities can be generally extended in the future without much of an effort. Programming very specific stuff, on the contrary, limits the usage of the code and makes it difficult to use. In many cases, an earth-bound UFO like FDM could be enough. But if you think about high level generic traffic simulation you need something more specific, at least from a cinematic point of view; I don't think a higly detailed real physics simulation is of any help but in rare cases anyway. Roberto -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kanns mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
On 6/19/07, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: OTOH one important question to consider is whether a vehicle FDM in FlightGear should attempt to model real physics or be more like a earth-bound UFO. Anders Hi Anders, Let me chime in with a quick comment. There are quite a few people doing driving simulation based research. Vehicles and the environments we drive through are a huge part of our lives. Unfortunately, a distressing number of people are hurt or killed in vehicles. There is a ton of research going on to try to improve safety by improving road layouts, markings, and signage, adding technology to vehicles (i.e. warning systems if you drift out of your lane or are approach the vehicle ahead of you too quickly, etc.) Also people are looking at the effects of various imparements such as fatigue, alcohol, cell phones, or various physical ailments. In addition to all of that, I've seen driving sims used for obvious things like driver training, but also non-obvious things like rehabilitating certain types of injuries, or testing people if they are safe to drive after enduring certain types of injuries (i.e. a shoulder injury ... can you react quickly and spin the wheel in an accident likely scenario? Or maybe can you drive safely after enduring a stroke? Or after starting some new medication ...?) There are also more advanced types of training such as for truck drivers where the risks of a dumb mistake are even greater than with a lighter vehicle. Our local airport (KMSP) has a big fire engine simulator that they use to train anyone that needs to drive a vehicle on airport grounds. They have an incredibly detailed 3d model of the MSP airport (yeah I was drooling) down to correct placement of every light and every sign. I heard they paid a guy to come out and take 3000+ daytime photos and a similar number of night time photos to build the 3d world. They use this simulator to train drivers to navigate the maze of taxiways and service roads and practice interacting with the tower. Have a service vehicle go the wrong way at an airport could be just as devistating as having a pilot taxi the wrong way ... and this can become really difficult in low visibility situations (we can have significant snow storms here in the winter.) Most of the groups doing vehicle based research or training already have solutions in place. There are a couple high buck vendors selling simulators and software systems, and there are a couple really cheesy low end systems that some people suffer through. However, I hear over and over again that it would be really nice to have a full featured, advanced, open-source driving sim software infrastructure. So often researchers do actual real research. I know that might be surprising to some folks who are familiar with the industry. :-) But research implies doing something new or something different than before. Now mix that with a closed-source proprietary software system and your hands could be tied for doing what you need to do. Or if you hit a show stopping bug late in the development of a project, it stinks when the solution is out of your hands. Our software vendor on occasion has offered to fix bugs for us, but they often view the fix as a new feature and we wouldn't see it for 6 months when the next version is released. I don't mean that as a negative comment towards our software vendor, it's just a fact of life in the proprietary world. If we added some realistic automobile/truck dynamics with both manual and automatic transmissions, perhaps the ability to pull a trailer, and some sort of reasonable skid model, we would suddenly be very far down the path towards supporting those folks that are doing driving sim based research and training. So if realistic vehicle dynamics is something that anyone out there is interested in, I would strongly encourage you to push foward. I think over time we could develop a significant following in the surface based transportion world. (Sorry this message was supposed to be quick, but got longer the more I typed.) :-) Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Project http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ http://www.flightgear.org Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
* Oliver Schroeder -- Tuesday 19 June 2007: attached is a patch for the osg-branch, which will introduce a new pseudo FDM for ground vehicles and (large) ships. The FDM isn't perfect, but good enough to allow driving vehicles. I'd very much like to have a car FDM. A realistic one like Curt mentioned. But this suggested FDM is even less sophisticated than the ufo, and I guess that a special yasim config would make a far better car. So, if it isn't a serious FDM from the beginning, then I think we are better off with a car-o-matic script, which -- in analogy to jsbsim's aeromatic -- would knock out yasim configs from simple car properties. m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
Melchior FRANZ wrote * Oliver Schroeder -- Tuesday 19 June 2007: attached is a patch for the osg-branch, which will introduce a new pseudo FDM for ground vehicles and (large) ships. The FDM isn't perfect, but good enough to allow driving vehicles. I'd very much like to have a car FDM. A realistic one like Curt mentioned. But this suggested FDM is even less sophisticated than the ufo, and I guess that a special yasim config would make a far better car. So, if it isn't a serious FDM from the beginning, then I think we are better off with a car-o-matic script, which -- in analogy to jsbsim's aeromatic -- would knock out yasim configs from simple car properties. m. To follow these remarks - there is a quite sophisicated pseudo-fdm already in AIShip, which takes into account turning circles, rudder angles, speed, and acceleration and rolls and steers the ship accordingly. This code is able to accept inputs of the form of target course and speed, or direct input of rudder angles. Is there something wrong with it? I also have doubts that a single fdm can accurately reproduce ship and car characteristics - a ship isn't a big truck which travels over sea rather than land. Ships do not respond immediately to rudder inputs, and to stop a turn they require counter-rudder. They also roll in turns. In this sim the 100,000 ton Nimitz seems to have no mass, and a turning circle significantly tighter that a destroyer. Max rpm is more likely to be 250 rpm than 2500 rpm. Take it from an old salt - this is the least ship like ship simulator I have come across. I love the views - particularly the bridge. Somewhere along the line, I seem to have lost the wake here, which spoils some of the views a bit. Don't know if these comments are particularly helpful, but I fully support your intention to have a MP carrier. However, it's fun for a few minutes to steer a carrier, or it might be if it were a lot more realistic, but actually, I'd like this automated, so that I can fly off the darned thing, and not be a taxi-driver for the Airedales. Vivian - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
Vivian Meazza wrote: I also have doubts that a single fdm can accurately reproduce ship and car characteristics - [...] While you are at it, don't forget simulating railway trains - their timetables are publicly available :-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 22:25:24 Martin Spott wrote: Vivian Meazza wrote: I also have doubts that a single fdm can accurately reproduce ship and car characteristics - [...] While you are at it, don't forget simulating railway trains - their timetables are publicly available :-) Don't bother with UK trains then, timetables or not - they are always late/cancelled at will. How you simulate that I do not know. Nick - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
I also have doubts that a single fdm can accurately reproduce ship and car characteristics - [...] A true Ship FDM would require sea state simulation, as a carrier is going to rock in a heavy sea. Landing on a carrier in calm water in the daylight is easy. It's that Sea State 5, with driving rain, at night, that is like having sex in a car wreck. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new pseudo FDM for vehicles (osg branch)
I'd very much like to have a car FDM. A realistic one like Curt mentioned. m. There's Racer: http://www.racer.nl/ JB - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
