Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....
Clay, a vote is there to decide on certain things. A proposal is merely a possible course of action that can be discussed. It may be concluded by a formal vote once all the details are clear. I don't know of anyone who is clearly against the creation of the XML Graphics PMC. I expect everyone who has a problem with what's going on to make him/herself heard, the sooner the better. I'm simply trying to get attention by using [PROPOSAL] in the subject, to invite everyone to participate in figuring out the details. When everything's set, we're going to do a binding vote that will show the board our consensus on the matter. I hope that clears it up a bit. On 25.06.2004 16:54:39 Clay Leeds wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Being new to this VOTING thing, I'm a bit confused. I believe I've made it clear in a previous message, that I'm in favor of the PROPOSAL to create the XML Graphics PMC which will be the new 'home' of FOP and Batik, but I'm unclear on how this process works. I'm also in favor of the votes for membership expressed below (scroll down a bit for my specific votes...). What I'm unclear on, is the 'legal' difference between PROPOSAL and VOTE. I'd thought that the only time a VOTE really counts is when the SUBJECT includes VOTE. I've searched through the ASF docs, and the only place I can see PROPOSAL discussed, is[1], hence my confusion.: [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html Rules require that a negative vote includes an alternative proposal or a detailed explanation on the reasons for the negative vote. In any case, My VOTE(s) for this PROPOSAL (assuming they are appropriate now) are below: Creation of the XML Graphics PMC +1 Jeremias Maerki
[Fwd: Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....]
This went only to general. Must get into the habit of actually reading the To address. The discussion seems to have migrated to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peter Original Message Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:43:55 +1000 From: Peter B. West [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jeremias, Thanks for the work on such thankless tasks as this, and thanks for the nomination. I have expressed some scepticism about the direction the Board is taking with TLPs, but it doesn't hurt to have a sceptic on the PMC. Like you, I'm sure, I don't particularly like administrative work, but I'm honoured to be nominated. I would urge new committers to consider indicating a preparedness (on or off line) to participate in the PMC. When I was first elected to the XML PMC as a FOP rep, I was quite up-front about the appeal of membership on my C.V., so don't be shy. I would also like to see you on the PMC, is only because it is fair to recognise the amount of effort you have put into bringing this TLP into being. If you want to bounce ideas about, or drafts of, the charter off me, please do so. I'll give what assistance I can. Formally, my votes for membership of the XML Graphics PMC are: Joerg Pietschmann +1 Glen Mazza+1 Jeremias Maerki +1 (conditional on his acceptance of nomination) Peter Jeremias Maerki wrote: Hi everyone, Berin thankfully pushed again and I'm taking the time for another round. Considering what I think is the general opinion, here's what I propose: 1. We create that XML Graphics PMC taking Batik and FOP under the new umbrella. I hope I don't have to explain again that nothing will change for our users. We will still use the XML project's infrastructure. 2. We will take Batik in even though the patient is in a suboptimal condition ATM. The PMC to-be-formed agrees to keep an eye on the project and help if any potential new committer bubbles up. When Batik's life energies come up to healthy levels again it shall be more strongly represented in the PMC as people come available. 3. I propose the following FOP people for the minimal initial PMC: Peter B. West, Jörg Pietschmann, Glen Mazza. I'd also propose at least someof the more junior committers but I don't know how anyone feels about that. Please propose any additional candidates as you see fit. I don't propose myself but I'm available if anyone proposes me. 4. I propose both Vincent Hardy and Thomas DeWeese from the Batik project as PMC members. I'd appreciate if at least one of the two accepted even if you can't actively participate in the development. You know it isn't much to do but it's important to have at least someone on board. I'll update the board resolution draft and set up a charter draft during the next few days (also peeking at the other works). The proposed PMC members are kindly invited to indicate whether they would be available for the post. Votes of support are requested for the nominations. If anyone is against this proposal (or parts of it) please speak up. We need to get this done. I appreciate any kind of help I can get. Jeremias Maerki -- Peter B. West http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/resume.html
Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....
Peter B. West wrote: Formally, my votes for membership of the XML Graphics PMC are: Joerg Pietschmann +1 Glen Mazza+1 Jeremias Maerki +1 (conditional on his acceptance of nomination) Peter Jeremias Maerki wrote: Hi everyone, 4. I propose both Vincent Hardy and Thomas DeWeese from the Batik project as PMC members. I'd appreciate if at least one of the two accepted even if you can't actively participate in the development. You know it isn't much to do but it's important to have at least someone on board. Note that I will vote for Vincent and/or Thomas if they express an interest. Peter -- Peter B. West http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/resume.html
Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Being new to this VOTING thing, I'm a bit confused. I believe I've made it clear in a previous message, that I'm in favor of the PROPOSAL to create the XML Graphics PMC which will be the new 'home' of FOP and Batik, but I'm unclear on how this process works. I'm also in favor of the votes for membership expressed below (scroll down a bit for my specific votes...). What I'm unclear on, is the 'legal' difference between PROPOSAL and VOTE. I'd thought that the only time a VOTE really counts is when the SUBJECT includes VOTE. I've searched through the ASF docs, and the only place I can see PROPOSAL discussed, is[1], hence my confusion.: [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html Rules require that a negative vote includes an alternative proposal or a detailed explanation on the reasons for the negative vote. In any case, My VOTE(s) for this PROPOSAL (assuming they are appropriate now) are below: Creation of the XML Graphics PMC +1 On Jun 25, 2004, at 2:28 AM, Peter B. West wrote: Peter B. West wrote: Formally, my votes for membership of the XML Graphics PMC are: Joerg Pietschmann +1 +1 Glen Mazza+1 +1 Jeremias Maerki +1 (conditional on his acceptance of nomination) +1 (conditional on his acceptance of nomination) Peter Jeremias Maerki wrote: Hi everyone, 4. I propose both Vincent Hardy and Thomas DeWeese from the Batik project as PMC members. I'd appreciate if at least one of the two accepted even if you can't actively participate in the development. You know it isn't much to do but it's important to have at least someone on board. Note that I will vote for Vincent and/or Thomas if they express an interest. As will I. Vincent Hardy +1 (conditional on his acceptance of nomination) Thomas DeWeese +1 (conditional on his acceptance of nomination) Peter -- Peter B. West http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/resume.html Clay Leeds - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -- Web Developer - Medata, Inc. - http://www.medata.com/ PGP Public Key: https://mail.medata.com/pgp/cleeds.asc -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkDcPLMACgkQRixs4Cbu7eh8+wCfSOT2Cr2MPV9QTC46QxTWhTh8 2/oAoLBA5e3j6x2/2pz++XTUP2Y0Cnz+ =savY -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....
Clay Leeds wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Being new to this VOTING thing, I'm a bit confused. I believe I've made it clear in a previous message, that I'm in favor of the PROPOSAL to create the XML Graphics PMC which will be the new 'home' of FOP and Batik, but I'm unclear on how this process works. I'm also in favor of the votes for membership expressed below (scroll down a bit for my specific votes...). What I'm unclear on, is the 'legal' difference between PROPOSAL and VOTE. I'd thought that the only time a VOTE really counts is when the SUBJECT includes VOTE. I've searched through the ASF docs, and the only place I can see PROPOSAL discussed, is[1], hence my confusion.: [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html Rules require that a negative vote includes an alternative proposal or a detailed explanation on the reasons for the negative vote. In any case, My VOTE(s) for this PROPOSAL (assuming they are appropriate now) are below: Creation of the XML Graphics PMC +1 Very sensible Clay. It was somewhat premature of me to vote on membership before we had a formal proposal for the XML Graphics top-level project. However, I assume the vote on members will still be valid when we get to putting a proposal forward, and voting on the acceptance of the charter. If not, we can ask for it again. Peter -- Peter B. West http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/resume.html
Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....
Glen Mazza wrote: Reconsidered. OK, I'll join, and reinstate my first proposal, that of you joining the PMC and (yes) being its head. Hi Glen, glad that you reconsidered, I agree with Jeremias, the PMC needs you. It also needs Jeremias, so I second your proposal to have Jeremias on the PMC. Chris
Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....
Glen, but the fact that you're already monitoring batik-dev already shows me that you're de-facto monitoring the project. Help keep an eye on how things go on over there. You don't need write access to Batik's codebase to do that. That's all that's needed. One part of the XML Graphics proposal (at least for me) is to work closer together. Maybe to develop common components later. That's another reason I'd like to have you in the PMC. You've contributed a lot to the XML Graphics discussion without being in the XML PMC in the first place. Shows me that you care. The biggest part to get this working is to set up the resolution and charter, from then on I don't think there's a lot to do. The XML PMC list is not that active. Please reconsider. On 21.06.2004 00:52:04 Glen Mazza wrote: I do know, however, that I don't need the headache of being concerned about it, or the maintenance responsibility for it should something be wrong. I have way too much work on FOP. And see nothing gained by being (1) responsible for a product while (2) not having write access to it. (Even if I did get write access, SVG is not one of my main interests anyway.) Accordingly, I'm taking myself out of this PMC proposal--I don't care to sit on this PMC. But thanks for your offer. Jeremias Maerki
Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....
Reconsidered. OK, I'll join, and reinstate my first proposal, that of you joining the PMC and (yes) being its head. Glen --- Jeremias Maerki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glen, but the fact that you're already monitoring batik-dev already shows me that you're de-facto monitoring the project. Help keep an eye on how things go on over there. You don't need write access to Batik's codebase to do that. That's all that's needed. One part of the XML Graphics proposal (at least for me) is to work closer together. Maybe to develop common components later. That's another reason I'd like to have you in the PMC. You've contributed a lot to the XML Graphics discussion without being in the XML PMC in the first place. Shows me that you care. The biggest part to get this working is to set up the resolution and charter, from then on I don't think there's a lot to do. The XML PMC list is not that active. Please reconsider. On 21.06.2004 00:52:04 Glen Mazza wrote: I do know, however, that I don't need the headache of being concerned about it, or the maintenance responsibility for it should something be wrong. I have way too much work on FOP. And see nothing gained by being (1) responsible for a product while (2) not having write access to it. (Even if I did get write access, SVG is not one of my main interests anyway.) Accordingly, I'm taking myself out of this PMC proposal--I don't care to sit on this PMC. But thanks for your offer. Jeremias Maerki
Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....
On Sat, Jun 19, 2004 at 03:30:30PM +0200, Jeremias Maerki wrote: Hi everyone, Berin thankfully pushed again and I'm taking the time for another round. Considering what I think is the general opinion, here's what I propose: 1. We create that XML Graphics PMC taking Batik and FOP under the new umbrella. I hope I don't have to explain again that nothing will change for our users. We will still use the XML project's infrastructure. I have not followed the discussion and do not know the advantages or disadvantages. Therefore I am neither in favour of nor against this proposal. 3. I propose the following FOP people for the minimal initial PMC: Peter B. West, Jörg Pietschmann, Glen Mazza. I'd also propose at least some of the more junior committers but I don't know how anyone feels about that. Please propose any additional candidates as you see fit. I don't propose myself but I'm available if anyone proposes me. Sounds fine with me. I do care about organizational matters, as a necessary evil. But I have little time to spend on FOP, and I would not like to fragment it over multiple concerns. Therefore I prefer not to be a candidate. I have not been long enough on the project anyway. Regards, Simon -- Simon Pepping home page: http://www.leverkruid.nl
Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....
Yeah, take up some tedious job and end up with even more in your rucksack. If it has to be I can do the PMC head job but I'd rather have someone else do that, like Peter, for example. You know how limited my Apache time budget is, lately. Nowadays I'm simply more an observer than anything else. As for the Batik committership idea, I don't think that's a good one. I don't know the Batik codebase well enough to do any serious testing as is required when you apply a patch. There's simply too much that can go wrong. I'd have to find out how the whole testing infrastructure works etc. etc. Too time-consuming. I'd rather we find ways to revive the project from within the Batik community. On 19.06.2004 16:15:55 Glen Mazza wrote: Everything is fine--especially adding me to the PMC ;)--but three more proposals to add: 1.) Jeremias Maerki added to this PMC and also made head of it. 2.) Jeremias Maerki automatically added as committer to the Batik project at (or just before) time of formation of XML Graphics. Batik has not been active for quite some time, and it needs more committers to be able to apply patches to its code base. He is already well trained in SVG and Java Graphics. [Bulletin: Apparently Batik will be getting one more committer soon: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=batik-devm=108739195725928w=2] 3.) Upon becoming committer, as price for Batik committership, Jeremias will update the licenses on its source files to the 2.0 license. Jeremias Maerki
Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....
Jeremias, I agree with you. Thomas apparently stopped working on it because of licensing issues. For all I know about Batik--next to nothing--perhaps it links with 10-15 libraries, half of which may have incompatible or out-of-date licensing. I have no clue, and I'm not motivated enough to study its code base to find out. I do know, however, that I don't need the headache of being concerned about it, or the maintenance responsibility for it should something be wrong. I have way too much work on FOP. And see nothing gained by being (1) responsible for a product while (2) not having write access to it. (Even if I did get write access, SVG is not one of my main interests anyway.) Accordingly, I'm taking myself out of this PMC proposal--I don't care to sit on this PMC. But thanks for your offer. Also, based on your response, I'm going to rescind my three proposals. If you are interested in any of them, please propose yourself, or wait for another team member to propose you. Thanks, Glen Jeremias Maerki wrote: Yeah, take up some tedious job and end up with even more in your rucksack. If it has to be I can do the PMC head job but I'd rather have someone else do that, like Peter, for example. You know how limited my Apache time budget is, lately. Nowadays I'm simply more an observer than anything else. As for the Batik committership idea, I don't think that's a good one. I don't know the Batik codebase well enough to do any serious testing as is required when you apply a patch. There's simply too much that can go wrong. I'd have to find out how the whole testing infrastructure works etc. etc. Too time-consuming. I'd rather we find ways to revive the project from within the Batik community. On 19.06.2004 16:15:55 Glen Mazza wrote: Everything is fine--especially adding me to the PMC ;)--but three more proposals to add: 1.) Jeremias Maerki added to this PMC and also made head of it. 2.) Jeremias Maerki automatically added as committer to the Batik project at (or just before) time of formation of XML Graphics. Batik has not been active for quite some time, and it needs more committers to be able to apply patches to its code base. He is already well trained in SVG and Java Graphics. [Bulletin: Apparently Batik will be getting one more committer soon: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=batik-devm=108739195725928w=2] 3.) Upon becoming committer, as price for Batik committership, Jeremias will update the licenses on its source files to the 2.0 license. Jeremias Maerki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....
Hi everyone, Berin thankfully pushed again and I'm taking the time for another round. Considering what I think is the general opinion, here's what I propose: 1. We create that XML Graphics PMC taking Batik and FOP under the new umbrella. I hope I don't have to explain again that nothing will change for our users. We will still use the XML project's infrastructure. 2. We will take Batik in even though the patient is in a suboptimal condition ATM. The PMC to-be-formed agrees to keep an eye on the project and help if any potential new committer bubbles up. When Batik's life energies come up to healthy levels again it shall be more strongly represented in the PMC as people come available. 3. I propose the following FOP people for the minimal initial PMC: Peter B. West, Jörg Pietschmann, Glen Mazza. I'd also propose at least some of the more junior committers but I don't know how anyone feels about that. Please propose any additional candidates as you see fit. I don't propose myself but I'm available if anyone proposes me. 4. I propose both Vincent Hardy and Thomas DeWeese from the Batik project as PMC members. I'd appreciate if at least one of the two accepted even if you can't actively participate in the development. You know it isn't much to do but it's important to have at least someone on board. I'll update the board resolution draft and set up a charter draft during the next few days (also peeking at the other works). The proposed PMC members are kindly invited to indicate whether they would be available for the post. Votes of support are requested for the nominations. If anyone is against this proposal (or parts of it) please speak up. We need to get this done. I appreciate any kind of help I can get. Jeremias Maerki
Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....
Everything is fine--especially adding me to the PMC ;)--but three more proposals to add: 1.) Jeremias Maerki added to this PMC and also made head of it. 2.) Jeremias Maerki automatically added as committer to the Batik project at (or just before) time of formation of XML Graphics. Batik has not been active for quite some time, and it needs more committers to be able to apply patches to its code base. He is already well trained in SVG and Java Graphics. [Bulletin: Apparently Batik will be getting one more committer soon: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=batik-devm=108739195725928w=2] 3.) Upon becoming committer, as price for Batik committership, Jeremias will update the licenses on its source files to the 2.0 license. Glen --- Jeremias Maerki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, Berin thankfully pushed again and I'm taking the time for another round. Considering what I think is the general opinion, here's what I propose: 1. We create that XML Graphics PMC taking Batik and FOP under the new umbrella. I hope I don't have to explain again that nothing will change for our users. We will still use the XML project's infrastructure. 2. We will take Batik in even though the patient is in a suboptimal condition ATM. The PMC to-be-formed agrees to keep an eye on the project and help if any potential new committer bubbles up. When Batik's life energies come up to healthy levels again it shall be more strongly represented in the PMC as people come available. 3. I propose the following FOP people for the minimal initial PMC: Peter B. West, Jörg Pietschmann, Glen Mazza. I'd also propose at least some of the more junior committers but I don't know how anyone feels about that. Please propose any additional candidates as you see fit. I don't propose myself but I'm available if anyone proposes me. 4. I propose both Vincent Hardy and Thomas DeWeese from the Batik project as PMC members. I'd appreciate if at least one of the two accepted even if you can't actively participate in the development. You know it isn't much to do but it's important to have at least someone on board. I'll update the board resolution draft and set up a charter draft during the next few days (also peeking at the other works). The proposed PMC members are kindly invited to indicate whether they would be available for the post. Votes of support are requested for the nominations. If anyone is against this proposal (or parts of it) please speak up. We need to get this done. I appreciate any kind of help I can get. Jeremias Maerki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Finally creating the XML Graphics PMC....
This seems like a sound proposal to me. Batik being such an important component of the family, it is important to keep it maintained. See below for other comments... Glen Mazza said: Everything is fine--especially adding me to the PMC ;)--but three more proposals to add: 1.) Jeremias Maerki added to this PMC and also made head of it. Hear! Hear! 2.) Jeremias Maerki automatically added as committer to the Batik project at (or just before) time of formation of XML Graphics. Batik has not been active for quite some time, and it needs more committers to be able to apply patches to its code base. He is already well trained in SVG and Java Graphics. [Bulletin: Apparently Batik will be getting one more committer soon: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=batik-devm=108739195725928w=2] Makes sense to me... 3.) Upon becoming committer, as price for Batik committership, Jeremias will update the licenses on its source files to the 2.0 license. Having recently completed the same thing for FOP I can think of no one more 'qualified'! Glen --- Jeremias Maerki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, Berin thankfully pushed again and I'm taking the time for another round. Considering what I think is the general opinion, here's what I propose: 1. We create that XML Graphics PMC taking Batik and FOP under the new umbrella. I hope I don't have to explain again that nothing will change for our users. We will still use the XML project's infrastructure. 2. We will take Batik in even though the patient is in a suboptimal condition ATM. The PMC to-be-formed agrees to keep an eye on the project and help if any potential new committer bubbles up. When Batik's life energies come up to healthy levels again it shall be more strongly represented in the PMC as people come available. 3. I propose the following FOP people for the minimal initial PMC: Peter B. West, Jörg Pietschmann, Glen Mazza. I'd also propose at least some of the more junior committers but I don't know how anyone feels about that. Please propose any additional candidates as you see fit. I don't propose myself but I'm available if anyone proposes me. I'm happy to assist in any capacity I'm able to assist. 4. I propose both Vincent Hardy and Thomas DeWeese from the Batik project as PMC members. I'd appreciate if at least one of the two accepted even if you can't actively participate in the development. You know it isn't much to do but it's important to have at least someone on board. I couldn't agree more. Having the most active participants on the PMC is important in maintaining the 'flow' of development. It might also be good to invite other Batik contributors as well, although I'm not particularly familiar with the history of Batik. I'll update the board resolution draft and set up a charter draft during the next few days (also peeking at the other works). The proposed PMC members are kindly invited to indicate whether they would be available for the post. Votes of support are requested for the nominations. If anyone is against this proposal (or parts of it) please speak up. We need to get this done. I appreciate any kind of help I can get. Jeremias Maerki Thank you, Jeremias for doing all this work, and following thorugh to make certain things go as smoothly as possible. This sounds like a well thought-out proposal, and I hope it is viewed favorably by all involved. Web Maestro Clay
