RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Venkat]

Hello,

I have just migrated to FM 9.0 yesterday and IMHO, am finding the UI a pain
to use.  Some of the issues that I am having are:

1. When using structured interface, using F8 to select a character style
creates a new element of the same type at the point where the style has to
be applied.

2. When using F8 to apply the Default Format in FM8, we just used to select
F8 and then press the  key. This is not possible in FM9 as there is
an entry "Not Applicable" as the first entry in all the lists.

3. Dialogs persist and do not behave as required. For example, take the
"Anchored Frame" dialog. When I want to insert an image in my document, I
use an element "Image". This by default inserts an anchored frame and the
"Anchored Frame" dialog box is displayed. However, when I click the  button in the dialog, the frame is inserted but the dialog box
changes to the edit mode and retains the focus.

My definition of the "Image" element inserts the "Image Title" element below
the image when I press the  button again. This action is now gone for
a toss as I have to close this persistent dialog to get focus back to the
document. This has slowed me down considerably as I work mostly with the
keyboard.

My question is

Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in any selectable list.

IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to
the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit
of a chore to use it.

Regards,
Venkatesh Parthasarathy,
Senior Technical Writer.

-- 
---
First Do No Harm
---

Landscape 11 x 17

[Richard Melanson]

I could have sworn you could do it, well at least I feel better about
myself  lol  :-)  Thank you for your help Mr. Quatro. 
Rick 

-Original Message-
From: Rick Quatro [mailto:r...@rickquatro.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 5:24 PM
To: Richard Melanson; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Landscape 11 x 17

Hi Rick,

Your brain is probably OK. You can't remember how to do it because it
can't be done. You can mix portrait and landscape pages in the same
document as long as they are the same size. The only way to do what you
want is to use a book and insert the 11 x 17 document at the appropriate
location in the book.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-659-8267
rick at frameexpert.com

*** Frame Automation blog at http://frameautomation.com

OK Framers,

I now officially consider myself brain dead. I, for the life of me,
cannot remember how to put a page that is 11 x 17 landscape into a
document that is all portrait 8.5 x 11 . I have searched through both
the Frame Help manuals I have and I am still dead in the water, sorry
brain dead. May I please ask that someone point me in the correct
direction so I can get this done. I am very embarrassed to have to ask
this  :-(

Rick
___

RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Bill Swallow]

> Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
> not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in any selectable list.

I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade through maker.ini
and see if there's anything in there that can be changed.

> IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to
> the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit
> of a chore to use it.

I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM for roughly
12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time to poke
through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head around the UI
for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which selections
need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick"). Granted I
was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the beginning -
because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have been - but I
think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not enough time was
spent use testing with veteran users.

Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to completely
relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same logic,
keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be maintained.

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood

RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Writer]

I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it.

Nadine

--- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallow  wrote:

> From: Bill Swallow 
> Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
> To: "Venkat" 
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM
> > Can these behavior be changed. I
> do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
> > not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in
> any selectable list.
> 
> I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade
> through maker.ini
> and see if there's anything in there that can be changed.
> 
> > IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and
> do not add anything to
> > the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In
> fact, I find it a bit
> > of a chore to use it.
> 
> I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM
> for roughly
> 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time
> to poke
> through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head
> around the UI
> for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which
> selections
> need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick").
> Granted I
> was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the
> beginning -
> because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have
> been - but I
> think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not
> enough time was
> spent use testing with veteran users.
> 
> Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to
> completely
> relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same
> logic,
> keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be
> maintained.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Swallow
> 
> Twitter: @techcommdood
> Blog: http://techcommdood.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as generic668 at yahoo.ca.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.ca
> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com.
> Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and
> info.
> 5o

RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB]

Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a
dancing paper clip?

We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to
FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve.

Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend?
Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. 

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:36 AM
To: Venkat; Bill Swallow
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it.

Nadine

--- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallow  wrote:

> From: Bill Swallow 
> Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
> To: "Venkat" 
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM
> > Can these behavior be changed. I
> do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
> > not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in
> any selectable list.
> 
> I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade
> through maker.ini
> and see if there's anything in there that can be changed.
> 
> > IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and
> do not add anything to
> > the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In
> fact, I find it a bit
> > of a chore to use it.
> 
> I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM
> for roughly
> 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time
> to poke
> through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head
> around the UI
> for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which
> selections
> need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick").
> Granted I
> was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the
> beginning -
> because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have
> been - but I
> think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not
> enough time was
> spent use testing with veteran users.
> 
> Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to
> completely
> relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same
> logic,
> keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be
> maintained.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Swallow
> 
> Twitter: @techcommdood
> Blog: http://techcommdood.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as generic668 at yahoo.ca.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.c
a
> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com.
> Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and
> info.
> 5o

___


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RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Shmuel Wolfson]

By menu-to-ribbon, are you referring to Word? If yes, click on this 
link, then click "Start the guide":
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/interactive-word-2003-to-word-2007-command-reference-guide-HA010074432.aspx

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133


On 03-Aug-10 6:50 PM, Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB wrote:
> Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a
> dancing paper clip?
>
> We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to
> FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve.
>
> Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend?
> Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:36 AM
> To: Venkat; Bill Swallow
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
>
> I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it.
>
> Nadine
>
> --- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallow  wrote:
>
>
>> From: Bill Swallow
>> Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
>> To: "Venkat"
>> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
>> Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM
>>  
>>> Can these behavior be changed. I
>>>
>> do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
>>  
>>> not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in
>>>
>> any selectable list.
>>
>> I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade
>> through maker.ini
>> and see if there's anything in there that can be changed.
>>
>>  
>>> IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and
>>>
>> do not add anything to
>>  
>>> the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In
>>>
>> fact, I find it a bit
>>  
>>> of a chore to use it.
>>>
>> I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM
>> for roughly
>> 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time
>> to poke
>> through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head
>> around the UI
>> for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which
>> selections
>> need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick").
>> Granted I
>> was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the
>> beginning -
>> because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have
>> been - but I
>> think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not
>> enough time was
>> spent use testing with veteran users.
>>
>> Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to
>> completely
>> relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same
>> logic,
>> keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be
>> maintained.
>>
>> -- 
>> Bill Swallow
>>
>> Twitter: @techcommdood
>> Blog: http://techcommdood.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
>> ___
>>
>>
>> You are currently subscribed to framers as generic668 at yahoo.ca.
>>
>> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>> or visit
>>  
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.c
> a
>
>> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com.
>> Visit
>> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and
>> info.
>> 5o
>>  
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as
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>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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> robins.af.mil
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
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> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as shmuelw1 at gmail.com.
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>

RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB]

I was actually referring to FM but thanks for the Microsoft link.
Ribbons are for typewriters not software.

-Original Message-
From: Shmuel Wolfson [mailto:shmue...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:06 PM
To: Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

By menu-to-ribbon, are you referring to Word? If yes, click on this 
link, then click "Start the guide":
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/interactive-word-2003-to-wor
d-2007-command-reference-guide-HA010074432.aspx

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133


On 03-Aug-10 6:50 PM, Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB
wrote:
> Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a
> dancing paper clip?
>
> We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to
> FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve.
>
> Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend?
> Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:36 AM
> To: Venkat; Bill Swallow
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
>
> I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it.
>
> Nadine
>
> --- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallow  wrote:
>
>
>> From: Bill Swallow
>> Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
>> To: "Venkat"
>> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
>> Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM
>>  
>>> Can these behavior be changed. I
>>>
>> do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
>>  
>>> not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in
>>>
>> any selectable list.
>>
>> I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade
>> through maker.ini
>> and see if there's anything in there that can be changed.
>>
>>  
>>> IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and
>>>
>> do not add anything to
>>  
>>> the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In
>>>
>> fact, I find it a bit
>>  
>>> of a chore to use it.
>>>
>> I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM
>> for roughly
>> 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time
>> to poke
>> through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head
>> around the UI
>> for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which
>> selections
>> need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick").
>> Granted I
>> was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the
>> beginning -
>> because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have
>> been - but I
>> think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not
>> enough time was
>> spent use testing with veteran users.
>>
>> Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to
>> completely
>> relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same
>> logic,
>> keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be
>> maintained.
>>
>> -- 
>> Bill Swallow
>>
>> Twitter: @techcommdood
>> Blog: http://techcommdood.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
>> ___
>>
>>
>> You are currently subscribed to framers as generic668 at yahoo.ca.
>>
>> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>> or visit
>>  
>
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.c
> a
>
>> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com.
>> Visit
>> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and
>> info.
>> 5o
>>  
> ___
>
>
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>
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>

Custom Table Rules

[Flato, Gillian]

Got this as a Tweet from RJ Jacquez. It's a good tip in case you didn't know 
it. 

Custom Table Rules http://bit.ly/bBKPSS
-Gillian

FrameMaker and Version Control Software

[Alison Craig]

FM 9 Version: 9.0p250
Unstructured
OS: XP Pro with SP3
FM Experience: 13 months
Writing Experience: 15 years
Writing Team: 1 (me)


I started asking question last week about backups on my version control 
database and it turns out that no backups are done (as the sole writer, I am 
the only user of the Documentation database).

The Lead Software engineer has been trying to get me to change from Microsoft's 
Visual Source Safe to the open source product that the R&D department has 
switched to: Subversion. The problem is, he's never given me any compelling 
reasons to change and his description of how Subversion works hasn't made me 
want to make the switch.

After talking with one of the hardware engineers today, I can now see reasons:

-  Microsoft's has very strict "use" recommendations 
(http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Bb509342) which really mean I 
shouldn't be using VSS anymore as I fall outside the 3-5 Gb guideline (after 
4-1/2 years, my db is now 17 Gb). Database corruption is a real threat
-  contrary to what I was led to believe, you *can* actually lock files 
on checkout. Apparently the programmers don't use this functionality but as I 
foresee a second writer at some point, locking files seems pretty important to 
me

What do other people use for version control of documentation files? Does 
anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these specific programs?

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

FYI: Not only do I keep FM files in VSS, I also keep all my image files and my 
older Word-based docs.


Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com

RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Fred Ridder]

Darren Butler wrote:


> Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a
> dancing paper clip?
> 
> We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to
> FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve.
> 
> Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend?
> Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. 

Adobe *didn't* emulate Microsoft, and what they came up with is *not* a ribbon 
UI like MS Office has.
Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating toolbars and 
dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only small changes to the 
original circa 1990 user interface that they bought from Frame Technologies in 
1995, and many people had complained that the UI didn't look sufficiently 
Adobe-like. The fact that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that looks and acts similarly 
to Adobe's flagship apps should be a great benefit to the minuscule handful of 
new users who come to FrameMaker from tools like Photoshop or Illustrator or 
InDesign, but its value to experienced FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable.
-Fred Ridder  

FrameMaker and Version Control Software

[Alison Craig]

Jenny:

I guess I'm lucky. When I started here and said I wanted to use VSS, the lead 
software engineer set up a VSS DB just for documentation - no sharing with R&D. 
And it has saved me on a few occasions when I needed to go back into History 
for something (especially when I was working exclusively in MS Word).

Including my translations, I have more than 10 books, but in English I have 
only 2 which I use to produce 6 (soon to be 8) different manuals.

Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com



-Original Message-
From: Jenny Greenleaf [mailto:jennygreenl...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:58 AM
To: Alison Craig
Subject: Re: FrameMaker and Version Control Software

Hi Alison,

I'm a lone writer too. I have several books and release notes to keep track of. 
I don't want to put stuff in the engineers' DB, so I just use a backup drive 
that's on the network. IT backs it up.

I just drag my working files over at night and stick them in a working files 
directory. When I'm done with a book revision, I create a directory for that 
revision and put the relevant files (sans the backup files, etc.) into that 
directory as an archive. 


It's crude, but effective. I've never found source control systems to work very 
well for tech writing. 

I have a fairly limited number of books to keep track of--10 or so--so it's 
manageable. If you have a lot more, I can see why you would want some source 
control.

Jenny



On Aug 3, 2010, at 11:29 AM, Alison Craig wrote:

> FM 9 Version: 9.0p250
> Unstructured
> OS: XP Pro with SP3
> FM Experience: 13 months
> Writing Experience: 15 years
> Writing Team: 1 (me)
> 
> 
> I started asking question last week about backups on my version control 
> database and it turns out that no backups are done (as the sole writer, I am 
> the only user of the Documentation database).
> 
> The Lead Software engineer has been trying to get me to change from 
> Microsoft's Visual Source Safe to the open source product that the R&D 
> department has switched to: Subversion. The problem is, he's never given me 
> any compelling reasons to change and his description of how Subversion works 
> hasn't made me want to make the switch.
> 
> After talking with one of the hardware engineers today, I can now see reasons:
> 
> -  Microsoft's has very strict "use" recommendations 
> (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Bb509342) which really mean I 
> shouldn't be using VSS anymore as I fall outside the 3-5 Gb guideline (after 
> 4-1/2 years, my db is now 17 Gb). Database corruption is a real threat
> -  contrary to what I was led to believe, you *can* actually lock 
> files on checkout. Apparently the programmers don't use this functionality 
> but as I foresee a second writer at some point, locking files seems pretty 
> important to me
> 
> What do other people use for version control of documentation files? Does 
> anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these specific 
> programs?
> 
> Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> FYI: Not only do I keep FM files in VSS, I also keep all my image files and 
> my older Word-based docs.
> 
> 
> Alison Craig, Technical Writer
> Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
> Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
> E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as jennygreenleaf at comcast.net.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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> 
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> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Fred Ridder]

Gang,

Does anyone have solid information on whether or not FrameMaker 8.x is 
compatible with Windows 7? 
One of the engineers in a group I work with just got a shiny new laptop with 
Windows 7 (so far our corporate IT people are only allowing Windows 7 on 
brand-new machines), and the IT folks insisted that she has to install 
FrameMaker 9 rather than FrameMaker 8 because FM8 is not compatible. Of course, 
this now causes file compatibility issues since everybody else in the group 
still has FrameMaker 8 and can't get FM9 yet because the IT group's "purchase 
software" website only offers FM8. Yes, I know she can do a Save As to save 
files she works on in FM8 file format, but she tells me that FrameMaker 
requires her to change the filename when she does so, and that causes issues 
with our version control system. I'd love to have some solid information I can 
forward to the IT group to convince them that it really is OK to install 
FrameMaker 8 on a Windows 7 machine. (Or I'd like to know that it is 
definitively *not* OK so that I can work with this engineer to come up with a 
practical and foolproof workaround.)
I tried searching for compatibility information on Adobe's website, and the 
closest I could come were a couple of pages that told me that FM9 is "now 
compatible" with Windows 7. Useless. And I tried searching Microsoft's website, 
but the compatibility spreadsheet they provide for "IT pros" doesn't list *any* 
version of FrameMaker among the 10543 entries, and their Windows 7 
Compatibility Center only lists FrameMaker 9, and only with the indication "no 
information available". Even more useless. 
-Fred Ridder  

FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Writer]

Check this thread:

http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/2010-July/020620.html

Nadine

--- On Tue, 8/3/10, Fred Ridder  wrote:

> From: Fred Ridder 
> Subject: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 3:18 PM
> 
> Gang,
>  
> Does anyone have solid information on whether or not
> FrameMaker 8.x is compatible with Windows 7? 
> One of the engineers in a group I work with just got a
> shiny new laptop with Windows 7 (so far our corporate IT
> people are only allowing Windows 7 on brand-new machines),
> and the IT folks insisted that she has to install FrameMaker
> 9 rather than FrameMaker 8 because FM8 is not compatible. Of
> course, this now causes file compatibility issues since
> everybody else in the group still has FrameMaker 8 and can't
> get FM9 yet because the IT group's "purchase software"
> website only offers FM8. Yes, I know she can do a Save As to
> save files she works on in FM8 file format, but she tells me
> that FrameMaker requires her to change the filename when she
> does so, and that causes issues with our version control
> system. I'd love to have some solid information I can
> forward to the IT group to convince them that it really is
> OK to install FrameMaker 8 on a Windows 7 machine. (Or I'd
> like to know that it is definitively *not* OK so that I can
> work with this engineer to come up with a practical a
>  nd foolproof workaround.)
> I tried searching for compatibility information on Adobe's
> website, and the closest I could come were a couple of pages
> that told me that FM9 is "now compatible" with Windows 7.
> Useless. And I tried searching Microsoft's website, but the
> compatibility spreadsheet they provide for "IT pros" doesn't
> list *any* version of FrameMaker among the 10543 entries,
> and their Windows 7 Compatibility Center only lists
> FrameMaker 9, and only with the indication "no information
> available". Even more useless. 
> -Fred Ridder ???
> 
> ?? ???
> ? 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as generic668 at yahoo.ca.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
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> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
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> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com.
> Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and
> info.
> o

RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Sharon Burton]

And speaking as a 40-mumbley-aged person, the contrast of the black text on
the grey interface sucks, even with my reading glasses. I hate playing with
all the pods that fly about. I don't like the focus changing unexpectedly, I
just dislike having to pay so much attention to my interface, as it takes
away from authoring effort and breaks my concentration. 

In general, I really dislike the new interface. It doesn't look like a
Windows app and it's hard to use. 


sharon

Sharon Burton
Content Consultant
www.anthrobytes.com
951-369-8590
IM: sharonvburton at yahoo.com
Twitter: sharonburton
Blog:anthrobytes.wordpress.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonvburton


Darren Butler wrote:


> Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a
> dancing paper clip?
> 
> We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to
> FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve.
> 
> Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend?
> Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. 

[snip]

Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating toolbars and
dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only small changes to the
original circa 1990 user interface that they bought from Frame Technologies
in 1995, and many people had complained that the UI didn't look sufficiently
Adobe-like. The fact that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that looks and acts
similarly to Adobe's flagship apps should be a great benefit to the
minuscule handful of new users who come to FrameMaker from tools like
Photoshop or Illustrator or InDesign, but its value to experienced
FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable.
-Fred Ridder  
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FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Art Campbell]

It should work fine, although you may have to run the installer as Admin.

I ran it under the W7 betas and didn't have any problems, and I've run
both 7 and 9 on production W7 without incident, so it shouldn't be any
kind of problem.

And to ensure compatibility, I'm not 100% sure I'd trust whatever the
IT guys come up with as far as CDs go -- there's a "fixed for Vista"
version of 8 on the Adobe download site that I'd use before I
installed from an old CD, although I'd certainly go with whatever key
code they provide.

Art Campbell
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? art.campbell at gmail.com
? "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52
Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? No disclaimers apply.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? DoD 358



On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Fred Ridder  wrote:
>
> Gang,
>
> Does anyone have solid information on whether or not FrameMaker 8.x is 
> compatible with Windows 7?
> One of the engineers in a group I work with just got a shiny new laptop with 
> Windows 7 (so far our corporate IT people are only allowing Windows 7 on 
> brand-new machines), and the IT folks insisted that she has to install 
> FrameMaker 9 rather than FrameMaker 8 because FM8 is not compatible. Of 
> course, this now causes file compatibility issues since everybody else in the 
> group still has FrameMaker 8 and can't get FM9 yet because the IT group's 
> "purchase software" website only offers FM8. Yes, I know she can do a Save As 
> to save files she works on in FM8 file format, but she tells me that 
> FrameMaker requires her to change the filename when she does so, and that 
> causes issues with our version control system. I'd love to have some solid 
> information I can forward to the IT group to convince them that it really is 
> OK to install FrameMaker 8 on a Windows 7 machine. (Or I'd like to know that 
> it is definitively *not* OK so that I can work with this engineer to come up 
> with a practical a
> ?nd foolproof workaround.)
> I tried searching for compatibility information on Adobe's website, and the 
> closest I could come were a couple of pages that told me that FM9 is "now 
> compatible" with Windows 7. Useless. And I tried searching Microsoft's 
> website, but the compatibility spreadsheet they provide for "IT pros" doesn't 
> list *any* version of FrameMaker among the 10543 entries, and their Windows 7 
> Compatibility Center only lists FrameMaker 9, and only with the indication 
> "no information available". Even more useless.
> -Fred Ridder
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campbell at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
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>
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> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Fred,

I am running FrameMaker 8 on Windows 7 64-bit with no problems.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-659-8267
rick at frameexpert.com

*** Frame Automation blog at http://frameautomation.com

FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Combs, Richard]

Fred Ridder wrote:

> Does anyone have solid information on whether or not FrameMaker 8.x is
> compatible with Windows 7?
> One of the engineers in a group I work with just got a shiny new laptop
> with Windows 7 (so far our corporate IT people are only allowing Windows 7
> on brand-new machines), and the IT folks insisted that she has to install
> FrameMaker 9 rather than FrameMaker 8 because FM8 is not compatible. Of
> course, this now causes file compatibility issues since everybody else in
> the group still has FrameMaker 8 and can't get FM9 yet because the IT
> group's "purchase software" website only offers FM8. Yes, I know she can do
> a Save As to save files she works on in FM8 file format, but she tells me
> that FrameMaker requires her to change the filename when she does so, and
> that causes issues with our version control system.  

I can't help with the FM8/Win7 questions, but I can tell you that the engineer 
with FM9 is simply wrong. You most certainly _can_ save a file in FM8 format 
without changing the name. 

In the Save Document dialog, when you change Save as type to Document 8.0 
(*.fm) and click Save, FM first presents a dialog warning you that you may lose 
"information related to new features." If you click OK to continue, it then 
presents a dialog asking you if it's OK to overwrite the existing file. If you 
click OK again, it overwrites your FM9 version with an FM8 version. No problem. 

HTH!

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Fred Ridder]

Art Campbell wrote:


> It should work fine, although you may have to run the installer as Admin.
> 
> I ran it under the W7 betas and didn't have any problems, and I've run
> both 7 and 9 on production W7 without incident, so it shouldn't be any
> kind of problem.
> 
> And to ensure compatibility, I'm not 100% sure I'd trust whatever the
> IT guys come up with as far as CDs go -- there's a "fixed for Vista"
> version of 8 on the Adobe download site that I'd use before I
> installed from an old CD, although I'd certainly go with whatever key
> code they provide.

Thanks for the info Art. It may be that the FM8 installation is the real issue. 
The way our software installation process works is that everybody installs all 
"standard" apps from a server that IT manages, and it's a very safe bet that 
the CD images there are the original versions from Adobe. Just one of the 
prices you pay for working for a Fortune 500, I guess...
-Fred 

FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Spectrum Writing]

http://forums.adobe.com/message/2325269

Some folks have had to set a compatibility mode to get FM 8 to run on Win 7
64-bit machine, but once set, it runs. 

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
info at spectrumwritingllc.com


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:39 PM
To: 'Fred Ridder'; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

Hi Fred,

I am running FrameMaker 8 on Windows 7 64-bit with no problems.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-659-8267
rick at frameexpert.com

*** Frame Automation blog at http://frameautomation.com



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RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Bill Swallow]

I wouldn't say it's hard to use, but it certainly is difficult to use
efficiently. As you say, pods are everywhere. I am constantly hiding
and changing the docking location for ones I use regularly because
they are always in the way of the authoring area. The tool should not
get in the way of the task for which it was designed.

And yes, the lack of contrast in the UI itself makes the UI a bit
difficult to stare at and read, but that appears to be an Adobe thing
because RoboHelp is the same way, only brighter.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Sharon Burton  wrote:
> And speaking as a 40-mumbley-aged person, the contrast of the black text on
> the grey interface sucks, even with my reading glasses. I hate playing with
> all the pods that fly about. I don't like the focus changing unexpectedly, I
> just dislike having to pay so much attention to my interface, as it takes
> away from authoring effort and breaks my concentration.
>
> In general, I really dislike the new interface. It doesn't look like a
> Windows app and it's hard to use.

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood

FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Spectrum Writing]

http://www.idmforums.com/showthread.php?t=50197

There's also a post on this list that states that you can run FM 8 on Win 7
b4-bit without any issues.


TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
info at spectrumwritingllc.com


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:39 PM
To: 'Fred Ridder'; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

Hi Fred,

I am running FrameMaker 8 on Windows 7 64-bit with no problems.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-659-8267
rick at frameexpert.com

*** Frame Automation blog at http://frameautomation.com



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RANT: FM 9.0 -

[jdela...@comcast.net]

Speaking as a newbie, but also more than 40 years old, I really like the 
interface. The black on gray makes the menus and such usable but unobtrusive, 
and I like the fact that I can control the illumination. It's still hard to 
learn (I made a few stabs with FM8), but seems much improved to me. I have no 
history of prior use, and therefore no memories of key commands, etc. Maybe 
they designed 9 to accommodate new users better. 

Jack DeLand 

RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB]

Hi Fred-

okay.but.Adobe FM started out looking similar to a windows app,
then when windows changed its' UI, FM changed also -
coincidence?!!?



Well, we were test driving FM9 about the same time as Word 2007 (both by
force). The frustration level was interchangeable betwixt the two
application UIs.

True, the new FM UI isn't a "ribbon" but both are feeble attempts (IMHO)
to get cute with the interface.

To me it's the equivalent of New Coke, KISS when they stopped wearing
makeup and costumes, and middle-aged Caucasian pop stars who start
dressing like they came from *da'hood* - COMPLETELY unnecessary, and a
very distasteful experience. Hopefully Adobe has gotten this out of
their system and can now turn their attention to more serious FM
improvements, like the ones clamored-for on this list.

It's interesting to me that both Adobe and MS used "we want it appeal to
new users" as a reason to change the UI of a well-loved, well-used
product. I've been using FM since version 5 was in diapers and I,
myself, have never heard anyone opine that FM just wasn't "Adobe-like"
The only consistent rant I've heard over the years is "multiple undo,
multiple undo, multiple undo, multiple undo." I must run with the
low brow set of FM users  ;^)



You might be right, but I still contend that Adobe just wanted to be
trendy. Maybe I just fear change.

-DJ



-Original Message-
From: Fred Ridder [mailto:docu...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:59 PM
To: Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB; generic668 at yahoo.ca;
venkat.partha at gmail.com; techcommdood at gmail.com
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: RANT: FM 9.0 -



Darren Butler wrote:



> Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a

> dancing paper clip?

> 

> We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to

> FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve.

> 

> Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend?

> Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. 



Adobe *didn't* emulate Microsoft, and what they came up with is *not* a
ribbon UI like MS Office has.

Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating toolbars
and dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only small changes
to the original circa 1990 user interface that they bought from Frame
Technologies in 1995, and many people had complained that the UI didn't
look sufficiently Adobe-like. The fact that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that
looks and acts similarly to Adobe's flagship apps should be a great
benefit to the minuscule handful of new users who come to FrameMaker
from tools like Photoshop or Illustrator or InDesign, but its value to
experienced FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable.

-Fred Ridder

FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Fred Ridder]

> From: info at spectrumwritingllc.com
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: RE: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:55:05 -0600
> 
> http://www.idmforums.com/showthread.php?t=50197
> 
> There's also a post on this list that states that you can run FM 8 on Win 7
> b4-bit without any issues.

Thanks for the pointer, but that reference to "FM8" is *not* a reference to 
FrameMaker. It's a reference to "NI FM8", an 8-voice FM synthesizer application 
from a company called Native Instruments. IDM Forums is dedicated to electronic 
music and music production, not technical writing. 
-FR   

RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Bill Swallow]

I'll buy that argument, but some consideration for those using it even
before the Adobe years would have been nice.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:03 PM,   wrote:
> Maybe they designed 9 to accommodate new users better.

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood

FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Bill Swallow]

> IDM Forums is dedicated to electronic music and music production, not 
> technical writing.

Awww... But it's close enough for funk. ;)

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood

FrameMaker and Version Control Software

[Alison Craig]

Steve: 

I don't *have* to use source control but given a choice I always want to.

R&D wasn't telling me I had to change, just encouraging me to - but they never 
articulated any sound reasons for switching so I don't want the hassle. Now 
that I have sound reasons, I'm going to make the switch (actually, R&D will 
make the switch for me).

Apparently all the developers use Tortoise so that's what I'll get as well. 
It's a good thing that's what everyone keeps recommending ;-).

Alison

Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com



-Original Message-
From: Steve Johnson [mailto:chinask...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:30 PM
To: Alison Craig
Cc: Jenny Greenleaf; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: FrameMaker and Version Control Software

We use Subversion and I have no issues with it. If you don't have to
use source control, it's purely a matter of preference but I wouldn't
put up a fight about it if they tell you to use it.

Get the Tortoise shell for Subversion, assuming you use Windows, and
you'll get used to it in no time.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Alison Craig
 wrote:
> Jenny:
>
> I guess I'm lucky. When I started here and said I wanted to use VSS, the lead 
> software engineer set up a VSS DB just for documentation - no sharing with 
> R&D. And it has saved me on a few occasions when I needed to go back into 
> History for something (especially when I was working exclusively in MS Word).
>
> Including my translations, I have more than 10 books, but in English I have 
> only 2 which I use to produce 6 (soon to be 8) different manuals.
>
> Alison Craig, Technical Writer
> Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
> Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
> E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jenny Greenleaf [mailto:jennygreenleaf at comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:58 AM
> To: Alison Craig
> Subject: Re: FrameMaker and Version Control Software
>
> Hi Alison,
>
> I'm a lone writer too. I have several books and release notes to keep track 
> of. I don't want to put stuff in the engineers' DB, so I just use a backup 
> drive that's on the network. IT backs it up.
>
> I just drag my working files over at night and stick them in a working files 
> directory. When I'm done with a book revision, I create a directory for that 
> revision and put the relevant files (sans the backup files, etc.) into that 
> directory as an archive.
>
>
> It's crude, but effective. I've never found source control systems to work 
> very well for tech writing.
>
> I have a fairly limited number of books to keep track of--10 or so--so it's 
> manageable. If you have a lot more, I can see why you would want some source 
> control.
>
> Jenny
>
>
>
> On Aug 3, 2010, at 11:29 AM, Alison Craig wrote:
>
>> FM 9 Version: 9.0p250
>> Unstructured
>> OS: XP Pro with SP3
>> FM Experience: 13 months
>> Writing Experience: 15 years
>> Writing Team: 1 (me)
>>
>>
>> I started asking question last week about backups on my version control 
>> database and it turns out that no backups are done (as the sole writer, I am 
>> the only user of the Documentation database).
>>
>> The Lead Software engineer has been trying to get me to change from 
>> Microsoft's Visual Source Safe to the open source product that the R&D 
>> department has switched to: Subversion. The problem is, he's never given me 
>> any compelling reasons to change and his description of how Subversion works 
>> hasn't made me want to make the switch.
>>
>> After talking with one of the hardware engineers today, I can now see 
>> reasons:
>>
>> - ? ? ? ? ?Microsoft's has very strict "use" recommendations 
>> (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Bb509342) which really mean I 
>> shouldn't be using VSS anymore as I fall outside the 3-5 Gb guideline (after 
>> 4-1/2 years, my db is now 17 Gb). Database corruption is a real threat
>> - ? ? ? ? ?contrary to what I was led to believe, you *can* actually lock 
>> files on checkout. Apparently the programmers don't use this functionality 
>> but as I foresee a second writer at some point, locking files seems pretty 
>> important to me
>>
>> What do other people use for version control of documentation files? Does 
>> anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these specific 
>> programs?
>>
>> Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> FYI: Not only do I keep FM files in VSS, I also keep all my image files and 
>> my older Word-based docs.
>>
>>
>> Alison Craig, Technical Writer
>> Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
>> Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
>> E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>>
>> You are currently subscribed to framers as jennygreenleaf at comcast.net.
>>
>> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a blank e

RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Mike Wickham]

> And yes, the lack of contrast in the UI itself makes the UI a bit
> difficult to stare at and read, but that appears to be an Adobe thing
> because RoboHelp is the same way, only brighter.

There is some adjustment that's possible: File> Preferences> Interface> UI 
Brightness. There is also a third party plugin that colors the icons (like 
the old style) in the toolbar at: http://www.daube.ch/docu/fmaker55.html.

Mike Wickham

FM9 Crashes

[Bob Smith]

Hi,

A problem has just started on FM9. It does not start. The logo screen starts, 
the progess bar gets to localization and then stops with an internal error 
message.

I have uninstalled FM9 and reinstalled it. Same error.

I have plenty of space on the C: drive, and have run check disk. All my other 
applications seem to be running correctly.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Bob   

RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Steve Johnson]

You should post this where it has a chance of doing some good, on the
Adobe forum. My understanding is that Frame 9 was developed entirely
overseas, safely away from anyone who might give them adverse but
useful feedback.

It's a big company thing to do: play up the window dressing without
fussing too much with anything else.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:00 AM, Venkat  wrote:
> 
>
> Hello,
>
> I have just migrated to FM 9.0 yesterday and IMHO, am finding the UI a pain
> to use. ?Some of the issues that I am having are:
>
> 1. When using structured interface, using F8 to select a character style
> creates a new element of the same type at the point where the style has to
> be applied.
>
> 2. When using F8 to apply the Default Format in FM8, we just used to select
> F8 and then press the  key. This is not possible in FM9 as there is
> an entry "Not Applicable" as the first entry in all the lists.
>
> 3. Dialogs persist and do not behave as required. For example, take the
> "Anchored Frame" dialog. When I want to insert an image in my document, I
> use an element "Image". This by default inserts an anchored frame and the
> "Anchored Frame" dialog box is displayed. However, when I click the  Frame> button in the dialog, the frame is inserted but the dialog box
> changes to the edit mode and retains the focus.
>
> My definition of the "Image" element inserts the "Image Title" element below
> the image when I press the  button again. This action is now gone for
> a toss as I have to close this persistent dialog to get focus back to the
> document. This has slowed me down considerably as I work mostly with the
> keyboard.
>
> My question is
>
> Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
> not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in any selectable list.
>
> IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to
> the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit
> of a chore to use it.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatesh Parthasarathy,
> Senior Technical Writer.
>
> --
> ---
> First Do No Harm
> ---
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_gonzo at pobox.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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>
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>



-- 

Steve Johnson, dr_gonzo at pobox.com

Looking to connect with other copyeditors and editors using Frame

[Jp Polk]

Hi all,

I've been lurking here for a few weeks - great list! I'd like to reach out to 
any editors and copyeditors who spar with change tracking or have developed 
other more elegant methods. For example, what's a clean and visible way to 
include lengthy marginal comments?

Is there a separate "Editors n' Frame" list that's been eluding my search? I've 
poked around in the archives here, and sense the editing demographic might be 
hanging out elsewhere.

Please reply or copy me offlist - I'm on digest.

cheers,
Jp

_
Jp Polk
Palantir Technologies | Technical Editor
jpolk at palantir.com|
_

FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Steve Johnson]

Although I don't use Frame daily, I have used Frame 8 on Windows 7
Professional with no issues.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Fred Ridder  wrote:
>
> Gang,
>
> Does anyone have solid information on whether or not FrameMaker 8.x is 
> compatible with Windows 7?
> One of the engineers in a group I work with just got a shiny new laptop with 
> Windows 7 (so far our corporate IT people are only allowing Windows 7 on 
> brand-new machines), and the IT folks insisted that she has to install 
> FrameMaker 9 rather than FrameMaker 8 because FM8 is not compatible. Of 
> course, this now causes file compatibility issues since everybody else in the 
> group still has FrameMaker 8 and can't get FM9 yet because the IT group's 
> "purchase software" website only offers FM8. Yes, I know she can do a Save As 
> to save files she works on in FM8 file format, but she tells me that 
> FrameMaker requires her to change the filename when she does so, and that 
> causes issues with our version control system. I'd love to have some solid 
> information I can forward to the IT group to convince them that it really is 
> OK to install FrameMaker 8 on a Windows 7 machine. (Or I'd like to know that 
> it is definitively *not* OK so that I can work with this engineer to come up 
> with a practical a
> ?nd foolproof workaround.)
> I tried searching for compatibility information on Adobe's website, and the 
> closest I could come were a couple of pages that told me that FM9 is "now 
> compatible" with Windows 7. Useless. And I tried searching Microsoft's 
> website, but the compatibility spreadsheet they provide for "IT pros" doesn't 
> list *any* version of FrameMaker among the 10543 entries, and their Windows 7 
> Compatibility Center only lists FrameMaker 9, and only with the indication 
> "no information available". Even more useless.
> -Fred Ridder
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_gonzo at pobox.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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>
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-- 

Steve Johnson, dr_gonzo at pobox.com

FrameMaker and Version Control Software

[Steve Johnson]

We use Subversion and I have no issues with it. If you don't have to
use source control, it's purely a matter of preference but I wouldn't
put up a fight about it if they tell you to use it.

Get the Tortoise shell for Subversion, assuming you use Windows, and
you'll get used to it in no time.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Alison Craig
 wrote:
> Jenny:
>
> I guess I'm lucky. When I started here and said I wanted to use VSS, the lead 
> software engineer set up a VSS DB just for documentation - no sharing with 
> R&D. And it has saved me on a few occasions when I needed to go back into 
> History for something (especially when I was working exclusively in MS Word).
>
> Including my translations, I have more than 10 books, but in English I have 
> only 2 which I use to produce 6 (soon to be 8) different manuals.
>
> Alison Craig, Technical Writer
> Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
> Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
> E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jenny Greenleaf [mailto:jennygreenleaf at comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:58 AM
> To: Alison Craig
> Subject: Re: FrameMaker and Version Control Software
>
> Hi Alison,
>
> I'm a lone writer too. I have several books and release notes to keep track 
> of. I don't want to put stuff in the engineers' DB, so I just use a backup 
> drive that's on the network. IT backs it up.
>
> I just drag my working files over at night and stick them in a working files 
> directory. When I'm done with a book revision, I create a directory for that 
> revision and put the relevant files (sans the backup files, etc.) into that 
> directory as an archive.
>
>
> It's crude, but effective. I've never found source control systems to work 
> very well for tech writing.
>
> I have a fairly limited number of books to keep track of--10 or so--so it's 
> manageable. If you have a lot more, I can see why you would want some source 
> control.
>
> Jenny
>
>
>
> On Aug 3, 2010, at 11:29 AM, Alison Craig wrote:
>
>> FM 9 Version: 9.0p250
>> Unstructured
>> OS: XP Pro with SP3
>> FM Experience: 13 months
>> Writing Experience: 15 years
>> Writing Team: 1 (me)
>>
>>
>> I started asking question last week about backups on my version control 
>> database and it turns out that no backups are done (as the sole writer, I am 
>> the only user of the Documentation database).
>>
>> The Lead Software engineer has been trying to get me to change from 
>> Microsoft's Visual Source Safe to the open source product that the R&D 
>> department has switched to: Subversion. The problem is, he's never given me 
>> any compelling reasons to change and his description of how Subversion works 
>> hasn't made me want to make the switch.
>>
>> After talking with one of the hardware engineers today, I can now see 
>> reasons:
>>
>> - ? ? ? ? ?Microsoft's has very strict "use" recommendations 
>> (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Bb509342) which really mean I 
>> shouldn't be using VSS anymore as I fall outside the 3-5 Gb guideline (after 
>> 4-1/2 years, my db is now 17 Gb). Database corruption is a real threat
>> - ? ? ? ? ?contrary to what I was led to believe, you *can* actually lock 
>> files on checkout. Apparently the programmers don't use this functionality 
>> but as I foresee a second writer at some point, locking files seems pretty 
>> important to me
>>
>> What do other people use for version control of documentation files? Does 
>> anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these specific 
>> programs?
>>
>> Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> FYI: Not only do I keep FM files in VSS, I also keep all my image files and 
>> my older Word-based docs.
>>
>>
>> Alison Craig, Technical Writer
>> Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
>> Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
>> E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>>
>> You are currently subscribed to framers as jennygreenleaf at comcast.net.
>>
>> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>> or visit 
>> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jennygreenleaf%40comcast.net
>>
>> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
>> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_gonzo at pobox.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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>
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> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>



-- 

Steve Johnson, dr_gonzo at pobox.com

FrameMaker and Version Control Software

[Tim J. Slager]

Alison,

We recently switched to Subversion from Rational ClearCase for some of the same 
reasons. I use Tortoise SVN (http://tortoisesvn.net/), which integrates with 
Windows Explorer. And yes, you can lock files, which is a good idea with binary 
files since you can't merge changes with those anyhow.

SVN has been a huge improvement over ClearCase. Very easy to set up and use. 
Jump at the opportunity. You will probably have to get used to some different 
terminology (for example you commit files not check them in) but that doesn't 
take long. 

tims

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alison Craig
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:29 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: FrameMaker and Version Control Software

FM 9 Version: 9.0p250
Unstructured
OS: XP Pro with SP3
FM Experience: 13 months
Writing Experience: 15 years
Writing Team: 1 (me)


I started asking question last week about backups on my version control 
database and it turns out that no backups are done (as the sole writer, I am 
the only user of the Documentation database).

The Lead Software engineer has been trying to get me to change from Microsoft's 
Visual Source Safe to the open source product that the R&D department has 
switched to: Subversion. The problem is, he's never given me any compelling 
reasons to change and his description of how Subversion works hasn't made me 
want to make the switch.

After talking with one of the hardware engineers today, I can now see reasons:

-  Microsoft's has very strict "use" recommendations 
(http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Bb509342) which really mean I 
shouldn't be using VSS anymore as I fall outside the 3-5 Gb guideline (after 
4-1/2 years, my db is now 17 Gb). Database corruption is a real threat
-  contrary to what I was led to believe, you *can* actually lock files 
on checkout. Apparently the programmers don't use this functionality but as I 
foresee a second writer at some point, locking files seems pretty important to 
me

What do other people use for version control of documentation files? Does 
anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these specific programs?

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

FYI: Not only do I keep FM files in VSS, I also keep all my image files and my 
older Word-based docs.


Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com


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Trouble with printing PDF file

[Carmelo Scaffidi]

I have created a PDF file from a FrameMaker 8 book. When I try printing the
PDF file the printing operation stops at the same page every time I retry
printing. The same thing occurs when I create a PDF from the file in the
book corresponding to the problem.



Attached is the log file generated by Distiller (version 9 pro). The PDF
file stops printing at page 35. Also attached is a PDF file extracted from
the main file (in this file the print stops at page 4).



Carmelo Scaffidi
Senior Technical Writer

AGFA Inc. - Graphics

5975 Falbourne St.

Mississauga, Ontario L5R 3V8

Tel: +1-905-361-6982 ext. 290
Fax: +1-905-502-0304

  www.agfa.com

FM9 Crashes

[Mike Wickham]

> A problem has just started on FM9. It does not start. The logo screen 
> starts, the progess bar gets to localization and then stops with an 
> internal error message.
>
> I have uninstalled FM9 and reinstalled it. Same error.

And what error might that be? You'll probably get more help if you list it.

Mike Wickham

FM9 Crashes

[Whites]

IIRC it's a personal/local dictionary problem. There was a thread on this 
recently.
I think if you delete your personal dictionary it will solve the problem.
Same thing happened to me several month back.
I don't recall what caused the corruption.
Another bit of buggery in FM9.

Will White

On Aug 3, 2010, at 8:20 AM, Bob Smith wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> 
> A problem has just started on FM9. It does not start. The logo screen starts, 
> the progess bar gets to localization and then stops with an internal error 
> message.
> 
> I have uninstalled FM9 and reinstalled it. Same error.
> 
> I have plenty of space on the C: drive, and have run check disk. All my other 
> applications seem to be running correctly.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as whitefamily at mac.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
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> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

+
"The end result is that a critical mass of influential people 
  in world affairs who once held high hopes for the president 
  have begun to wonder whether they misjudged the man."
   -  Mort Zuckerman on Barack Obama - 6/18/2010
+

RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Venkat]

Hello,

I have just migrated to FM 9.0 yesterday and IMHO, am finding the UI a pain
to use.  Some of the issues that I am having are:

1. When using structured interface, using F8 to select a character style
creates a new element of the same type at the point where the style has to
be applied.

2. When using F8 to apply the Default Format in FM8, we just used to select
F8 and then press the  key. This is not possible in FM9 as there is
an entry "Not Applicable" as the first entry in all the lists.

3. Dialogs persist and do not behave as required. For example, take the
"Anchored Frame" dialog. When I want to insert an image in my document, I
use an element "Image". This by default inserts an anchored frame and the
"Anchored Frame" dialog box is displayed. However, when I click the  button in the dialog, the frame is inserted but the dialog box
changes to the edit mode and retains the focus.

My definition of the "Image" element inserts the "Image Title" element below
the image when I press the  button again. This action is now gone for
a toss as I have to close this persistent dialog to get focus back to the
document. This has slowed me down considerably as I work mostly with the
keyboard.

My question is

Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in any selectable list.

IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to
the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit
of a chore to use it.

Regards,
Venkatesh Parthasarathy,
Senior Technical Writer.

-- 
---
First Do No Harm
---
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RE: Landscape 11 x 17

[Richard Melanson]

I could have sworn you could do it, well at least I feel better about
myself  lol  :-)  Thank you for your help Mr. Quatro. 
Rick 

-Original Message-
From: Rick Quatro [mailto:r...@rickquatro.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 5:24 PM
To: Richard Melanson; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Landscape 11 x 17

Hi Rick,

Your brain is probably OK. You can't remember how to do it because it
can't be done. You can mix portrait and landscape pages in the same
document as long as they are the same size. The only way to do what you
want is to use a book and insert the 11 x 17 document at the appropriate
location in the book.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-659-8267
r...@frameexpert.com

*** Frame Automation blog at http://frameautomation.com

OK Framers,
 
I now officially consider myself brain dead. I, for the life of me,
cannot remember how to put a page that is 11 x 17 landscape into a
document that is all portrait 8.5 x 11 . I have searched through both
the Frame Help manuals I have and I am still dead in the water, sorry
brain dead. May I please ask that someone point me in the correct
direction so I can get this done. I am very embarrassed to have to ask
this  :-(

Rick
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Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Bill Swallow]

> Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
> not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in any selectable list.

I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade through maker.ini
and see if there's anything in there that can be changed.

> IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to
> the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit
> of a chore to use it.

I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM for roughly
12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time to poke
through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head around the UI
for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which selections
need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick"). Granted I
was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the beginning -
because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have been - but I
think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not enough time was
spent use testing with veteran users.

Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to completely
relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same logic,
keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be maintained.

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
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Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Writer]

I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it.

Nadine

--- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallow  wrote:

> From: Bill Swallow 
> Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
> To: "Venkat" 
> Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM
> > Can these behavior be changed. I
> do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
> > not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in
> any selectable list.
> 
> I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade
> through maker.ini
> and see if there's anything in there that can be changed.
> 
> > IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and
> do not add anything to
> > the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In
> fact, I find it a bit
> > of a chore to use it.
> 
> I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM
> for roughly
> 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time
> to poke
> through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head
> around the UI
> for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which
> selections
> need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick").
> Granted I
> was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the
> beginning -
> because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have
> been - but I
> think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not
> enough time was
> spent use testing with veteran users.
> 
> Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to
> completely
> relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same
> logic,
> keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be
> maintained.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Swallow
> 
> Twitter: @techcommdood
> Blog: http://techcommdood.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca.
> 
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> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and
> info.
> 5o

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RE: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB]

Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a
dancing paper clip?

We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to
FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve.

Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend?
Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. 

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:36 AM
To: Venkat; Bill Swallow
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it.

Nadine

--- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallow  wrote:

> From: Bill Swallow 
> Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
> To: "Venkat" 
> Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM
> > Can these behavior be changed. I
> do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
> > not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in
> any selectable list.
> 
> I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade
> through maker.ini
> and see if there's anything in there that can be changed.
> 
> > IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and
> do not add anything to
> > the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In
> fact, I find it a bit
> > of a chore to use it.
> 
> I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM
> for roughly
> 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time
> to poke
> through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head
> around the UI
> for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which
> selections
> need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick").
> Granted I
> was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the
> beginning -
> because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have
> been - but I
> think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not
> enough time was
> spent use testing with veteran users.
> 
> Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to
> completely
> relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same
> logic,
> keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be
> maintained.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Swallow
> 
> Twitter: @techcommdood
> Blog: http://techcommdood.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca.
> 
> Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.
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a
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> 5o

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Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Shmuel Wolfson]

By menu-to-ribbon, are you referring to Word? If yes, click on this 
link, then click "Start the guide":

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/interactive-word-2003-to-word-2007-command-reference-guide-HA010074432.aspx

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133


On 03-Aug-10 6:50 PM, Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB wrote:

Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a
dancing paper clip?

We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to
FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve.

Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend?
Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9.

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:36 AM
To: Venkat; Bill Swallow
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it.

Nadine

--- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallow  wrote:

   

From: Bill Swallow
Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
To: "Venkat"
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM
 

Can these behavior be changed. I
   

do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
 

not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in
   

any selectable list.

I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade
through maker.ini
and see if there's anything in there that can be changed.

 

IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and
   

do not add anything to
 

the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In
   

fact, I find it a bit
 

of a chore to use it.
   

I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM
for roughly
12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time
to poke
through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head
around the UI
for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which
selections
need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick").
Granted I
was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the
beginning -
because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have
been - but I
think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not
enough time was
spent use testing with veteran users.

Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to
completely
relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same
logic,
keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be
maintained.

--
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
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RE: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB]

I was actually referring to FM but thanks for the Microsoft link.
Ribbons are for typewriters not software.

-Original Message-
From: Shmuel Wolfson [mailto:shmue...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:06 PM
To: Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

By menu-to-ribbon, are you referring to Word? If yes, click on this 
link, then click "Start the guide":
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/interactive-word-2003-to-wor
d-2007-command-reference-guide-HA010074432.aspx

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133


On 03-Aug-10 6:50 PM, Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB
wrote:
> Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a
> dancing paper clip?
>
> We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to
> FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve.
>
> Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend?
> Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:36 AM
> To: Venkat; Bill Swallow
> Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
>
> I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it.
>
> Nadine
>
> --- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallow  wrote:
>
>
>> From: Bill Swallow
>> Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
>> To: "Venkat"
>> Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
>> Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM
>>  
>>> Can these behavior be changed. I
>>>
>> do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
>>  
>>> not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in
>>>
>> any selectable list.
>>
>> I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade
>> through maker.ini
>> and see if there's anything in there that can be changed.
>>
>>  
>>> IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and
>>>
>> do not add anything to
>>  
>>> the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In
>>>
>> fact, I find it a bit
>>  
>>> of a chore to use it.
>>>
>> I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM
>> for roughly
>> 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time
>> to poke
>> through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head
>> around the UI
>> for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which
>> selections
>> need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick").
>> Granted I
>> was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the
>> beginning -
>> because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have
>> been - but I
>> think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not
>> enough time was
>> spent use testing with veteran users.
>>
>> Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to
>> completely
>> relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same
>> logic,
>> keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be
>> maintained.
>>
>> -- 
>> Bill Swallow
>>
>> Twitter: @techcommdood
>> Blog: http://techcommdood.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
>> ___
>>
>>
>> You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca.
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>> Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.
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>> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
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>>  
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http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.c
> a
>
>> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com.
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>> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and
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>> 5o
>>  
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Custom Table Rules

[Flato, Gillian]

Got this as a Tweet from RJ Jacquez. It's a good tip in case you didn't know 
it. 

Custom Table Rules http://bit.ly/bBKPSS
-Gillian
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FrameMaker and Version Control Software

[Alison Craig]

FM 9 Version: 9.0p250
Unstructured
OS: XP Pro with SP3
FM Experience: 13 months
Writing Experience: 15 years
Writing Team: 1 (me)


I started asking question last week about backups on my version control 
database and it turns out that no backups are done (as the sole writer, I am 
the only user of the Documentation database).

The Lead Software engineer has been trying to get me to change from Microsoft's 
Visual Source Safe to the open source product that the R&D department has 
switched to: Subversion. The problem is, he's never given me any compelling 
reasons to change and his description of how Subversion works hasn't made me 
want to make the switch.

After talking with one of the hardware engineers today, I can now see reasons:

-  Microsoft's has very strict "use" recommendations 
(http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Bb509342) which really mean I 
shouldn't be using VSS anymore as I fall outside the 3-5 Gb guideline (after 
4-1/2 years, my db is now 17 Gb). Database corruption is a real threat
-  contrary to what I was led to believe, you *can* actually lock files 
on checkout. Apparently the programmers don't use this functionality but as I 
foresee a second writer at some point, locking files seems pretty important to 
me

What do other people use for version control of documentation files? Does 
anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these specific programs?

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

FYI: Not only do I keep FM files in VSS, I also keep all my image files and my 
older Word-based docs.


Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com


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RE: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Fred Ridder]

Darren Butler wrote:
 

> Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a
> dancing paper clip?
> 
> We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to
> FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve.
> 
> Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend?
> Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. 

Adobe *didn't* emulate Microsoft, and what they came up with is *not* a ribbon 
UI like MS Office has.
Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating toolbars and 
dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only small changes to the 
original circa 1990 user interface that they bought from Frame Technologies in 
1995, and many people had complained that the UI didn't look sufficiently 
Adobe-like. The fact that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that looks and acts similarly 
to Adobe's flagship apps should be a great benefit to the minuscule handful of 
new users who come to FrameMaker from tools like Photoshop or Illustrator or 
InDesign, but its value to experienced FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable.
-Fred Ridder  
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RE: FrameMaker and Version Control Software

[Alison Craig]

Jenny:

I guess I'm lucky. When I started here and said I wanted to use VSS, the lead 
software engineer set up a VSS DB just for documentation - no sharing with R&D. 
And it has saved me on a few occasions when I needed to go back into History 
for something (especially when I was working exclusively in MS Word).

Including my translations, I have more than 10 books, but in English I have 
only 2 which I use to produce 6 (soon to be 8) different manuals.

Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
 
 

-Original Message-
From: Jenny Greenleaf [mailto:jennygreenl...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:58 AM
To: Alison Craig
Subject: Re: FrameMaker and Version Control Software

Hi Alison,

I'm a lone writer too. I have several books and release notes to keep track of. 
I don't want to put stuff in the engineers' DB, so I just use a backup drive 
that's on the network. IT backs it up.

I just drag my working files over at night and stick them in a working files 
directory. When I'm done with a book revision, I create a directory for that 
revision and put the relevant files (sans the backup files, etc.) into that 
directory as an archive. 


It's crude, but effective. I've never found source control systems to work very 
well for tech writing. 

I have a fairly limited number of books to keep track of--10 or so--so it's 
manageable. If you have a lot more, I can see why you would want some source 
control.

Jenny



On Aug 3, 2010, at 11:29 AM, Alison Craig wrote:

> FM 9 Version: 9.0p250
> Unstructured
> OS: XP Pro with SP3
> FM Experience: 13 months
> Writing Experience: 15 years
> Writing Team: 1 (me)
> 
> 
> I started asking question last week about backups on my version control 
> database and it turns out that no backups are done (as the sole writer, I am 
> the only user of the Documentation database).
> 
> The Lead Software engineer has been trying to get me to change from 
> Microsoft's Visual Source Safe to the open source product that the R&D 
> department has switched to: Subversion. The problem is, he's never given me 
> any compelling reasons to change and his description of how Subversion works 
> hasn't made me want to make the switch.
> 
> After talking with one of the hardware engineers today, I can now see reasons:
> 
> -  Microsoft's has very strict "use" recommendations 
> (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Bb509342) which really mean I 
> shouldn't be using VSS anymore as I fall outside the 3-5 Gb guideline (after 
> 4-1/2 years, my db is now 17 Gb). Database corruption is a real threat
> -  contrary to what I was led to believe, you *can* actually lock 
> files on checkout. Apparently the programmers don't use this functionality 
> but as I foresee a second writer at some point, locking files seems pretty 
> important to me
> 
> What do other people use for version control of documentation files? Does 
> anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these specific 
> programs?
> 
> Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> FYI: Not only do I keep FM files in VSS, I also keep all my image files and 
> my older Word-based docs.
> 
> 
> Alison Craig, Technical Writer
> Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
> Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
> E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
> 
> 
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FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Fred Ridder]

Gang,
 
Does anyone have solid information on whether or not FrameMaker 8.x is 
compatible with Windows 7? 
One of the engineers in a group I work with just got a shiny new laptop with 
Windows 7 (so far our corporate IT people are only allowing Windows 7 on 
brand-new machines), and the IT folks insisted that she has to install 
FrameMaker 9 rather than FrameMaker 8 because FM8 is not compatible. Of course, 
this now causes file compatibility issues since everybody else in the group 
still has FrameMaker 8 and can't get FM9 yet because the IT group's "purchase 
software" website only offers FM8. Yes, I know she can do a Save As to save 
files she works on in FM8 file format, but she tells me that FrameMaker 
requires her to change the filename when she does so, and that causes issues 
with our version control system. I'd love to have some solid information I can 
forward to the IT group to convince them that it really is OK to install 
FrameMaker 8 on a Windows 7 machine. (Or I'd like to know that it is 
definitively *not* OK so that I can work with this engineer to come up with a 
practical a
 nd foolproof workaround.)
I tried searching for compatibility information on Adobe's website, and the 
closest I could come were a couple of pages that told me that FM9 is "now 
compatible" with Windows 7. Useless. And I tried searching Microsoft's website, 
but the compatibility spreadsheet they provide for "IT pros" doesn't list *any* 
version of FrameMaker among the 10543 entries, and their Windows 7 
Compatibility Center only lists FrameMaker 9, and only with the indication "no 
information available". Even more useless. 
-Fred Ridder  
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Re: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Writer]

Check this thread:

http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/2010-July/020620.html

Nadine

--- On Tue, 8/3/10, Fred Ridder  wrote:

> From: Fred Ridder 
> Subject: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 3:18 PM
> 
> Gang,
>  
> Does anyone have solid information on whether or not
> FrameMaker 8.x is compatible with Windows 7? 
> One of the engineers in a group I work with just got a
> shiny new laptop with Windows 7 (so far our corporate IT
> people are only allowing Windows 7 on brand-new machines),
> and the IT folks insisted that she has to install FrameMaker
> 9 rather than FrameMaker 8 because FM8 is not compatible. Of
> course, this now causes file compatibility issues since
> everybody else in the group still has FrameMaker 8 and can't
> get FM9 yet because the IT group's "purchase software"
> website only offers FM8. Yes, I know she can do a Save As to
> save files she works on in FM8 file format, but she tells me
> that FrameMaker requires her to change the filename when she
> does so, and that causes issues with our version control
> system. I'd love to have some solid information I can
> forward to the IT group to convince them that it really is
> OK to install FrameMaker 8 on a Windows 7 machine. (Or I'd
> like to know that it is definitively *not* OK so that I can
> work with this engineer to come up with a practical a
>  nd foolproof workaround.)
> I tried searching for compatibility information on Adobe's
> website, and the closest I could come were a couple of pages
> that told me that FM9 is "now compatible" with Windows 7.
> Useless. And I tried searching Microsoft's website, but the
> compatibility spreadsheet they provide for "IT pros" doesn't
> list *any* version of FrameMaker among the 10543 entries,
> and their Windows 7 Compatibility Center only lists
> FrameMaker 9, and only with the indication "no information
> available". Even more useless. 
> -Fred Ridder    
> 
>       
>   
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RE: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Sharon Burton]

And speaking as a 40-mumbley-aged person, the contrast of the black text on
the grey interface sucks, even with my reading glasses. I hate playing with
all the pods that fly about. I don't like the focus changing unexpectedly, I
just dislike having to pay so much attention to my interface, as it takes
away from authoring effort and breaks my concentration. 

In general, I really dislike the new interface. It doesn't look like a
Windows app and it's hard to use. 


sharon

Sharon Burton
Content Consultant
www.anthrobytes.com
951-369-8590
IM: sharonvbur...@yahoo.com
Twitter: sharonburton
Blog:anthrobytes.wordpress.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonvburton


Darren Butler wrote:
 

> Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a
> dancing paper clip?
> 
> We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to
> FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve.
> 
> Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend?
> Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. 

[snip]

Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating toolbars and
dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only small changes to the
original circa 1990 user interface that they bought from Frame Technologies
in 1995, and many people had complained that the UI didn't look sufficiently
Adobe-like. The fact that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that looks and acts
similarly to Adobe's flagship apps should be a great benefit to the
minuscule handful of new users who come to FrameMaker from tools like
Photoshop or Illustrator or InDesign, but its value to experienced
FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable.
-Fred Ridder  
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Re: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Art Campbell]

It should work fine, although you may have to run the installer as Admin.

I ran it under the W7 betas and didn't have any problems, and I've run
both 7 and 9 on production W7 without incident, so it shouldn't be any
kind of problem.

And to ensure compatibility, I'm not 100% sure I'd trust whatever the
IT guys come up with as far as CDs go -- there's a "fixed for Vista"
version of 8 on the Adobe download site that I'd use before I
installed from an old CD, although I'd certainly go with whatever key
code they provide.

Art Campbell
               art.campb...@gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52
Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
                                                      No disclaimers apply.
                                                               DoD 358



On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Fred Ridder  wrote:
>
> Gang,
>
> Does anyone have solid information on whether or not FrameMaker 8.x is 
> compatible with Windows 7?
> One of the engineers in a group I work with just got a shiny new laptop with 
> Windows 7 (so far our corporate IT people are only allowing Windows 7 on 
> brand-new machines), and the IT folks insisted that she has to install 
> FrameMaker 9 rather than FrameMaker 8 because FM8 is not compatible. Of 
> course, this now causes file compatibility issues since everybody else in the 
> group still has FrameMaker 8 and can't get FM9 yet because the IT group's 
> "purchase software" website only offers FM8. Yes, I know she can do a Save As 
> to save files she works on in FM8 file format, but she tells me that 
> FrameMaker requires her to change the filename when she does so, and that 
> causes issues with our version control system. I'd love to have some solid 
> information I can forward to the IT group to convince them that it really is 
> OK to install FrameMaker 8 on a Windows 7 machine. (Or I'd like to know that 
> it is definitively *not* OK so that I can work with this engineer to come up 
> with a practical a
>  nd foolproof workaround.)
> I tried searching for compatibility information on Adobe's website, and the 
> closest I could come were a couple of pages that told me that FM9 is "now 
> compatible" with Windows 7. Useless. And I tried searching Microsoft's 
> website, but the compatibility spreadsheet they provide for "IT pros" doesn't 
> list *any* version of FrameMaker among the 10543 entries, and their Windows 7 
> Compatibility Center only lists FrameMaker 9, and only with the indication 
> "no information available". Even more useless.
> -Fred Ridder
> ___
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RE: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Fred,

I am running FrameMaker 8 on Windows 7 64-bit with no problems.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-659-8267
r...@frameexpert.com

*** Frame Automation blog at http://frameautomation.com



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RE: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Combs, Richard]

Fred Ridder wrote:
 
> Does anyone have solid information on whether or not FrameMaker 8.x is
> compatible with Windows 7?
> One of the engineers in a group I work with just got a shiny new laptop
> with Windows 7 (so far our corporate IT people are only allowing Windows 7
> on brand-new machines), and the IT folks insisted that she has to install
> FrameMaker 9 rather than FrameMaker 8 because FM8 is not compatible. Of
> course, this now causes file compatibility issues since everybody else in
> the group still has FrameMaker 8 and can't get FM9 yet because the IT
> group's "purchase software" website only offers FM8. Yes, I know she can do
> a Save As to save files she works on in FM8 file format, but she tells me
> that FrameMaker requires her to change the filename when she does so, and
> that causes issues with our version control system.  

I can't help with the FM8/Win7 questions, but I can tell you that the engineer 
with FM9 is simply wrong. You most certainly _can_ save a file in FM8 format 
without changing the name. 

In the Save Document dialog, when you change Save as type to Document 8.0 
(*.fm) and click Save, FM first presents a dialog warning you that you may lose 
"information related to new features." If you click OK to continue, it then 
presents a dialog asking you if it's OK to overwrite the existing file. If you 
click OK again, it overwrites your FM9 version with an FM8 version. No problem. 

HTH!

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--





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RE: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Fred Ridder]

Art Campbell wrote:
 

> It should work fine, although you may have to run the installer as Admin.
> 
> I ran it under the W7 betas and didn't have any problems, and I've run
> both 7 and 9 on production W7 without incident, so it shouldn't be any
> kind of problem.
> 
> And to ensure compatibility, I'm not 100% sure I'd trust whatever the
> IT guys come up with as far as CDs go -- there's a "fixed for Vista"
> version of 8 on the Adobe download site that I'd use before I
> installed from an old CD, although I'd certainly go with whatever key
> code they provide.

Thanks for the info Art. It may be that the FM8 installation is the real issue. 
The way our software installation process works is that everybody installs all 
"standard" apps from a server that IT manages, and it's a very safe bet that 
the CD images there are the original versions from Adobe. Just one of the 
prices you pay for working for a Fortune 500, I guess...
-Fred 
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RE: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Spectrum Writing]

http://forums.adobe.com/message/2325269

Some folks have had to set a compatibility mode to get FM 8 to run on Win 7
64-bit machine, but once set, it runs. 

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
i...@spectrumwritingllc.com


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:39 PM
To: 'Fred Ridder'; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

Hi Fred,

I am running FrameMaker 8 on Windows 7 64-bit with no problems.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-659-8267
r...@frameexpert.com

*** Frame Automation blog at http://frameautomation.com



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Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Bill Swallow]

I wouldn't say it's hard to use, but it certainly is difficult to use
efficiently. As you say, pods are everywhere. I am constantly hiding
and changing the docking location for ones I use regularly because
they are always in the way of the authoring area. The tool should not
get in the way of the task for which it was designed.

And yes, the lack of contrast in the UI itself makes the UI a bit
difficult to stare at and read, but that appears to be an Adobe thing
because RoboHelp is the same way, only brighter.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Sharon Burton  wrote:
> And speaking as a 40-mumbley-aged person, the contrast of the black text on
> the grey interface sucks, even with my reading glasses. I hate playing with
> all the pods that fly about. I don't like the focus changing unexpectedly, I
> just dislike having to pay so much attention to my interface, as it takes
> away from authoring effort and breaks my concentration.
>
> In general, I really dislike the new interface. It doesn't look like a
> Windows app and it's hard to use.

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
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RE: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Spectrum Writing]

http://www.idmforums.com/showthread.php?t=50197

There's also a post on this list that states that you can run FM 8 on Win 7
b4-bit without any issues.


TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
i...@spectrumwritingllc.com


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:39 PM
To: 'Fred Ridder'; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

Hi Fred,

I am running FrameMaker 8 on Windows 7 64-bit with no problems.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-659-8267
r...@frameexpert.com

*** Frame Automation blog at http://frameautomation.com



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Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[jdeland1]

Speaking as a newbie, but also more than 40 years old, I really like the 
interface. The black on gray makes the menus and such usable but unobtrusive, 
and I like the fact that I can control the illumination. It's still hard to 
learn (I made a few stabs with FM8), but seems much improved to me. I have no 
history of prior use, and therefore no memories of key commands, etc. Maybe 
they designed 9 to accommodate new users better. 

Jack DeLand 
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RE: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB]

Hi Fred-

okay.but.Adobe FM started out looking similar to a windows app,
then when windows changed its' UI, FM changed also -
coincidence?!!?

 

Well, we were test driving FM9 about the same time as Word 2007 (both by
force). The frustration level was interchangeable betwixt the two
application UIs.

True, the new FM UI isn't a "ribbon" but both are feeble attempts (IMHO)
to get cute with the interface.

To me it's the equivalent of New Coke, KISS when they stopped wearing
makeup and costumes, and middle-aged Caucasian pop stars who start
dressing like they came from *da'hood* - COMPLETELY unnecessary, and a
very distasteful experience. Hopefully Adobe has gotten this out of
their system and can now turn their attention to more serious FM
improvements, like the ones clamored-for on this list.

It's interesting to me that both Adobe and MS used "we want it appeal to
new users" as a reason to change the UI of a well-loved, well-used
product. I've been using FM since version 5 was in diapers and I,
myself, have never heard anyone opine that FM just wasn't "Adobe-like"
The only consistent rant I've heard over the years is "multiple undo,
multiple undo, multiple undo, multiple undo." I must run with the
low brow set of FM users  ;^)

 

You might be right, but I still contend that Adobe just wanted to be
trendy. Maybe I just fear change.

-DJ

 

-Original Message-
From: Fred Ridder [mailto:docu...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:59 PM
To: Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB; generic...@yahoo.ca;
venkat.par...@gmail.com; techcommd...@gmail.com
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: RANT: FM 9.0 -

 

Darren Butler wrote:

 

> Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a

> dancing paper clip?

> 

> We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to

> FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve.

> 

> Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend?

> Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. 

 

Adobe *didn't* emulate Microsoft, and what they came up with is *not* a
ribbon UI like MS Office has.

Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating toolbars
and dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only small changes
to the original circa 1990 user interface that they bought from Frame
Technologies in 1995, and many people had complained that the UI didn't
look sufficiently Adobe-like. The fact that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that
looks and acts similarly to Adobe's flagship apps should be a great
benefit to the minuscule handful of new users who come to FrameMaker
from tools like Photoshop or Illustrator or InDesign, but its value to
experienced FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable.

-Fred Ridder

 

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Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Alan T Litchfield]

Yo,

On 4/08/2010, at 6:59 AM, Fred Ridder wrote:



Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating  
toolbars and dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only  
small changes to the original circa 1990 user interface that they  
bought from Frame Technologies in 1995, and many people had  
complained that the UI didn't look sufficiently Adobe-like. The fact  
that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that looks and acts similarly to  
Adobe's flagship apps should be a great benefit to the minuscule  
handful of new users who come to FrameMaker from tools like  
Photoshop or Illustrator or InDesign, but its value to experienced  
FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable.


Which is why, after testing 9 I am still using 7.

On 4/08/2010, at 7:54 AM, Bill Swallow wrote:


The tool should not
get in the way of the task for which it was designed.




But of course it should, otherwise you might forget that you are using  
an *Adobe Product*. :P


Lightly
Alan
--
Alan T Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 141, Auckland, 1140
New Zealand
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice

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RE: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Fred Ridder]

> From: i...@spectrumwritingllc.com
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: RE: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:55:05 -0600
> 
> http://www.idmforums.com/showthread.php?t=50197
> 
> There's also a post on this list that states that you can run FM 8 on Win 7
> b4-bit without any issues.

Thanks for the pointer, but that reference to "FM8" is *not* a reference to 
FrameMaker. It's a reference to "NI FM8", an 8-voice FM synthesizer application 
from a company called Native Instruments. IDM Forums is dedicated to electronic 
music and music production, not technical writing. 
-FR   
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Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Bill Swallow]

I'll buy that argument, but some consideration for those using it even
before the Adobe years would have been nice.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:03 PM,   wrote:
> Maybe they designed 9 to accommodate new users better.

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
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Re: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Bill Swallow]

> IDM Forums is dedicated to electronic music and music production, not 
> technical writing.

Awww... But it's close enough for funk. ;)

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
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RE: FrameMaker and Version Control Software

[Alison Craig]

Steve: 

I don't *have* to use source control but given a choice I always want to.

R&D wasn't telling me I had to change, just encouraging me to - but they never 
articulated any sound reasons for switching so I don't want the hassle. Now 
that I have sound reasons, I'm going to make the switch (actually, R&D will 
make the switch for me).

Apparently all the developers use Tortoise so that's what I'll get as well. 
It's a good thing that's what everyone keeps recommending ;-).

Alison

Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
 
 

-Original Message-
From: Steve Johnson [mailto:chinask...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:30 PM
To: Alison Craig
Cc: Jenny Greenleaf; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: FrameMaker and Version Control Software

We use Subversion and I have no issues with it. If you don't have to
use source control, it's purely a matter of preference but I wouldn't
put up a fight about it if they tell you to use it.

Get the Tortoise shell for Subversion, assuming you use Windows, and
you'll get used to it in no time.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Alison Craig
 wrote:
> Jenny:
>
> I guess I'm lucky. When I started here and said I wanted to use VSS, the lead 
> software engineer set up a VSS DB just for documentation - no sharing with 
> R&D. And it has saved me on a few occasions when I needed to go back into 
> History for something (especially when I was working exclusively in MS Word).
>
> Including my translations, I have more than 10 books, but in English I have 
> only 2 which I use to produce 6 (soon to be 8) different manuals.
>
> Alison Craig, Technical Writer
> Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
> Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
> E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jenny Greenleaf [mailto:jennygreenl...@comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:58 AM
> To: Alison Craig
> Subject: Re: FrameMaker and Version Control Software
>
> Hi Alison,
>
> I'm a lone writer too. I have several books and release notes to keep track 
> of. I don't want to put stuff in the engineers' DB, so I just use a backup 
> drive that's on the network. IT backs it up.
>
> I just drag my working files over at night and stick them in a working files 
> directory. When I'm done with a book revision, I create a directory for that 
> revision and put the relevant files (sans the backup files, etc.) into that 
> directory as an archive.
>
>
> It's crude, but effective. I've never found source control systems to work 
> very well for tech writing.
>
> I have a fairly limited number of books to keep track of--10 or so--so it's 
> manageable. If you have a lot more, I can see why you would want some source 
> control.
>
> Jenny
>
>
>
> On Aug 3, 2010, at 11:29 AM, Alison Craig wrote:
>
>> FM 9 Version: 9.0p250
>> Unstructured
>> OS: XP Pro with SP3
>> FM Experience: 13 months
>> Writing Experience: 15 years
>> Writing Team: 1 (me)
>>
>>
>> I started asking question last week about backups on my version control 
>> database and it turns out that no backups are done (as the sole writer, I am 
>> the only user of the Documentation database).
>>
>> The Lead Software engineer has been trying to get me to change from 
>> Microsoft's Visual Source Safe to the open source product that the R&D 
>> department has switched to: Subversion. The problem is, he's never given me 
>> any compelling reasons to change and his description of how Subversion works 
>> hasn't made me want to make the switch.
>>
>> After talking with one of the hardware engineers today, I can now see 
>> reasons:
>>
>> -          Microsoft's has very strict "use" recommendations 
>> (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Bb509342) which really mean I 
>> shouldn't be using VSS anymore as I fall outside the 3-5 Gb guideline (after 
>> 4-1/2 years, my db is now 17 Gb). Database corruption is a real threat
>> -          contrary to what I was led to believe, you *can* actually lock 
>> files on checkout. Apparently the programmers don't use this functionality 
>> but as I foresee a second writer at some point, locking files seems pretty 
>> important to me
>>
>> What do other people use for version control of documentation files? Does 
>> anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these specific 
>> programs?
>>
>> Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> FYI: Not only do I keep FM files in VSS, I also keep all my image files and 
>> my older Word-based docs.
>>
>>
>> Alison Craig, Technical Writer
>> Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
>> Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
>> E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
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Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Mike Wickham]

And yes, the lack of contrast in the UI itself makes the UI a bit
difficult to stare at and read, but that appears to be an Adobe thing
because RoboHelp is the same way, only brighter.


There is some adjustment that's possible: File> Preferences> Interface> UI 
Brightness. There is also a third party plugin that colors the icons (like 
the old style) in the toolbar at: http://www.daube.ch/docu/fmaker55.html.


Mike Wickham


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FM9 Crashes

[Bob Smith]

Hi,
 
A problem has just started on FM9. It does not start. The logo screen starts, 
the progess bar gets to localization and then stops with an internal error 
message.
 
I have uninstalled FM9 and reinstalled it. Same error.
 
I have plenty of space on the C: drive, and have run check disk. All my other 
applications seem to be running correctly.
 
Any suggestions?
 
Thanks,
 
Bob   
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Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Steve Johnson]

You should post this where it has a chance of doing some good, on the
Adobe forum. My understanding is that Frame 9 was developed entirely
overseas, safely away from anyone who might give them adverse but
useful feedback.

It's a big company thing to do: play up the window dressing without
fussing too much with anything else.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:00 AM, Venkat  wrote:
> 
>
> Hello,
>
> I have just migrated to FM 9.0 yesterday and IMHO, am finding the UI a pain
> to use.  Some of the issues that I am having are:
>
> 1. When using structured interface, using F8 to select a character style
> creates a new element of the same type at the point where the style has to
> be applied.
>
> 2. When using F8 to apply the Default Format in FM8, we just used to select
> F8 and then press the  key. This is not possible in FM9 as there is
> an entry "Not Applicable" as the first entry in all the lists.
>
> 3. Dialogs persist and do not behave as required. For example, take the
> "Anchored Frame" dialog. When I want to insert an image in my document, I
> use an element "Image". This by default inserts an anchored frame and the
> "Anchored Frame" dialog box is displayed. However, when I click the  Frame> button in the dialog, the frame is inserted but the dialog box
> changes to the edit mode and retains the focus.
>
> My definition of the "Image" element inserts the "Image Title" element below
> the image when I press the  button again. This action is now gone for
> a toss as I have to close this persistent dialog to get focus back to the
> document. This has slowed me down considerably as I work mostly with the
> keyboard.
>
> My question is
>
> Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do
> not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in any selectable list.
>
> IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to
> the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit
> of a chore to use it.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatesh Parthasarathy,
> Senior Technical Writer.
>
> --
> ---
> First Do No Harm
> ---
> ___
>
>
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Looking to connect with other copyeditors and editors using Frame

[Jp Polk]

Hi all,

I've been lurking here for a few weeks - great list! I'd like to reach out to 
any editors and copyeditors who spar with change tracking or have developed 
other more elegant methods. For example, what's a clean and visible way to 
include lengthy marginal comments?

Is there a separate "Editors n' Frame" list that's been eluding my search? I've 
poked around in the archives here, and sense the editing demographic might be 
hanging out elsewhere.

Please reply or copy me offlist - I'm on digest.

cheers,
Jp

_
Jp Polk
Palantir Technologies | Technical Editor
jp...@palantir.com|
_

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Re: FM8 compatibility with Windows 7

[Steve Johnson]

Although I don't use Frame daily, I have used Frame 8 on Windows 7
Professional with no issues.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Fred Ridder  wrote:
>
> Gang,
>
> Does anyone have solid information on whether or not FrameMaker 8.x is 
> compatible with Windows 7?
> One of the engineers in a group I work with just got a shiny new laptop with 
> Windows 7 (so far our corporate IT people are only allowing Windows 7 on 
> brand-new machines), and the IT folks insisted that she has to install 
> FrameMaker 9 rather than FrameMaker 8 because FM8 is not compatible. Of 
> course, this now causes file compatibility issues since everybody else in the 
> group still has FrameMaker 8 and can't get FM9 yet because the IT group's 
> "purchase software" website only offers FM8. Yes, I know she can do a Save As 
> to save files she works on in FM8 file format, but she tells me that 
> FrameMaker requires her to change the filename when she does so, and that 
> causes issues with our version control system. I'd love to have some solid 
> information I can forward to the IT group to convince them that it really is 
> OK to install FrameMaker 8 on a Windows 7 machine. (Or I'd like to know that 
> it is definitively *not* OK so that I can work with this engineer to come up 
> with a practical a
>  nd foolproof workaround.)
> I tried searching for compatibility information on Adobe's website, and the 
> closest I could come were a couple of pages that told me that FM9 is "now 
> compatible" with Windows 7. Useless. And I tried searching Microsoft's 
> website, but the compatibility spreadsheet they provide for "IT pros" doesn't 
> list *any* version of FrameMaker among the 10543 entries, and their Windows 7 
> Compatibility Center only lists FrameMaker 9, and only with the indication 
> "no information available". Even more useless.
> -Fred Ridder
> ___
>
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Re: FrameMaker and Version Control Software

[Steve Johnson]

We use Subversion and I have no issues with it. If you don't have to
use source control, it's purely a matter of preference but I wouldn't
put up a fight about it if they tell you to use it.

Get the Tortoise shell for Subversion, assuming you use Windows, and
you'll get used to it in no time.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Alison Craig
 wrote:
> Jenny:
>
> I guess I'm lucky. When I started here and said I wanted to use VSS, the lead 
> software engineer set up a VSS DB just for documentation - no sharing with 
> R&D. And it has saved me on a few occasions when I needed to go back into 
> History for something (especially when I was working exclusively in MS Word).
>
> Including my translations, I have more than 10 books, but in English I have 
> only 2 which I use to produce 6 (soon to be 8) different manuals.
>
> Alison Craig, Technical Writer
> Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
> Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
> E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jenny Greenleaf [mailto:jennygreenl...@comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:58 AM
> To: Alison Craig
> Subject: Re: FrameMaker and Version Control Software
>
> Hi Alison,
>
> I'm a lone writer too. I have several books and release notes to keep track 
> of. I don't want to put stuff in the engineers' DB, so I just use a backup 
> drive that's on the network. IT backs it up.
>
> I just drag my working files over at night and stick them in a working files 
> directory. When I'm done with a book revision, I create a directory for that 
> revision and put the relevant files (sans the backup files, etc.) into that 
> directory as an archive.
>
>
> It's crude, but effective. I've never found source control systems to work 
> very well for tech writing.
>
> I have a fairly limited number of books to keep track of--10 or so--so it's 
> manageable. If you have a lot more, I can see why you would want some source 
> control.
>
> Jenny
>
>
>
> On Aug 3, 2010, at 11:29 AM, Alison Craig wrote:
>
>> FM 9 Version: 9.0p250
>> Unstructured
>> OS: XP Pro with SP3
>> FM Experience: 13 months
>> Writing Experience: 15 years
>> Writing Team: 1 (me)
>>
>>
>> I started asking question last week about backups on my version control 
>> database and it turns out that no backups are done (as the sole writer, I am 
>> the only user of the Documentation database).
>>
>> The Lead Software engineer has been trying to get me to change from 
>> Microsoft's Visual Source Safe to the open source product that the R&D 
>> department has switched to: Subversion. The problem is, he's never given me 
>> any compelling reasons to change and his description of how Subversion works 
>> hasn't made me want to make the switch.
>>
>> After talking with one of the hardware engineers today, I can now see 
>> reasons:
>>
>> -          Microsoft's has very strict "use" recommendations 
>> (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Bb509342) which really mean I 
>> shouldn't be using VSS anymore as I fall outside the 3-5 Gb guideline (after 
>> 4-1/2 years, my db is now 17 Gb). Database corruption is a real threat
>> -          contrary to what I was led to believe, you *can* actually lock 
>> files on checkout. Apparently the programmers don't use this functionality 
>> but as I foresee a second writer at some point, locking files seems pretty 
>> important to me
>>
>> What do other people use for version control of documentation files? Does 
>> anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these specific 
>> programs?
>>
>> Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> FYI: Not only do I keep FM files in VSS, I also keep all my image files and 
>> my older Word-based docs.
>>
>>
>> Alison Craig, Technical Writer
>> Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
>> Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
>> E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>>
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>>
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>
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RE: FrameMaker and Version Control Software

[Tim J. Slager]

Alison,

We recently switched to Subversion from Rational ClearCase for some of the same 
reasons. I use Tortoise SVN (http://tortoisesvn.net/), which integrates with 
Windows Explorer. And yes, you can lock files, which is a good idea with binary 
files since you can't merge changes with those anyhow.

SVN has been a huge improvement over ClearCase. Very easy to set up and use. 
Jump at the opportunity. You will probably have to get used to some different 
terminology (for example you commit files not check them in) but that doesn't 
take long. 

tims

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alison Craig
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:29 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: FrameMaker and Version Control Software

FM 9 Version: 9.0p250
Unstructured
OS: XP Pro with SP3
FM Experience: 13 months
Writing Experience: 15 years
Writing Team: 1 (me)


I started asking question last week about backups on my version control 
database and it turns out that no backups are done (as the sole writer, I am 
the only user of the Documentation database).

The Lead Software engineer has been trying to get me to change from Microsoft's 
Visual Source Safe to the open source product that the R&D department has 
switched to: Subversion. The problem is, he's never given me any compelling 
reasons to change and his description of how Subversion works hasn't made me 
want to make the switch.

After talking with one of the hardware engineers today, I can now see reasons:

-  Microsoft's has very strict "use" recommendations 
(http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Bb509342) which really mean I 
shouldn't be using VSS anymore as I fall outside the 3-5 Gb guideline (after 
4-1/2 years, my db is now 17 Gb). Database corruption is a real threat
-  contrary to what I was led to believe, you *can* actually lock files 
on checkout. Apparently the programmers don't use this functionality but as I 
foresee a second writer at some point, locking files seems pretty important to 
me

What do other people use for version control of documentation files? Does 
anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these specific programs?

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

FYI: Not only do I keep FM files in VSS, I also keep all my image files and my 
older Word-based docs.


Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com


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Trouble with printing PDF file

[Carmelo Scaffidi]

I have created a PDF file from a FrameMaker 8 book. When I try printing the
PDF file the printing operation stops at the same page every time I retry
printing. The same thing occurs when I create a PDF from the file in the
book corresponding to the problem.

 

Attached is the log file generated by Distiller (version 9 pro). The PDF
file stops printing at page 35. Also attached is a PDF file extracted from
the main file (in this file the print stops at page 4).

 

Carmelo Scaffidi
Senior Technical Writer

AGFA Inc. - Graphics

5975 Falbourne St.

Mississauga, Ontario L5R 3V8

Tel: +1-905-361-6982 ext. 290
Fax: +1-905-502-0304

  www.agfa.com

 

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Re: FM9 Crashes

[Mike Wickham]

A problem has just started on FM9. It does not start. The logo screen 
starts, the progess bar gets to localization and then stops with an 
internal error message.


I have uninstalled FM9 and reinstalled it. Same error.


And what error might that be? You'll probably get more help if you list it.

Mike Wickham


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Re: FM9 Crashes

[Whites]

IIRC it's a personal/local dictionary problem. There was a thread on this 
recently.
I think if you delete your personal dictionary it will solve the problem.
Same thing happened to me several month back.
I don't recall what caused the corruption.
Another bit of buggery in FM9.

Will White

On Aug 3, 2010, at 8:20 AM, Bob Smith wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> 
> A problem has just started on FM9. It does not start. The logo screen starts, 
> the progess bar gets to localization and then stops with an internal error 
> message.
> 
> I have uninstalled FM9 and reinstalled it. Same error.
> 
> I have plenty of space on the C: drive, and have run check disk. All my other 
> applications seem to be running correctly.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob 
> ___
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+
"The end result is that a critical mass of influential people 
  in world affairs who once held high hopes for the president 
  have begun to wonder whether they misjudged the man."
   -  Mort Zuckerman on Barack Obama - 6/18/2010
+





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Re: Trouble with printing PDF file

[Alan T Litchfield]

On 4/08/2010, at 8:31 AM, Carmelo Scaffidi wrote:

I have created a PDF file from a FrameMaker 8 book. When I try  
printing the
PDF file the printing operation stops at the same page every time I  
retry
printing. The same thing occurs when I create a PDF from the file in  
the

book corresponding to the problem.



Attached is the log file generated by Distiller (version 9 pro). The  
PDF
file stops printing at page 35. Also attached is a PDF file  
extracted from

the main file (in this file the print stops at page 4).




Bit confused here. You have successfully created a PDF from FM8 (using  
Save As?) and you are printing to PDF again. Why?


In any case, if it is stopping on the same page each time then it is  
likely to be an artefact that has an error or some such that the  
printer driver doesn't like. Normally these include image files that  
may have  unusually large numbers of anchor points, unsupported  
postscript commands, etc. The best approach is to progressively remove  
artefacts and regenerating the PDF and printing from it until you find  
that which is causing the problem.


Alan
--
Alan T Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 141, Auckland, 1140
New Zealand
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice

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Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -

[Mike Wickham]

You should post this where it has a chance of doing some good, on the
Adobe forum. My understanding is that Frame 9 was developed entirely
overseas, safely away from anyone who might give them adverse but
useful feedback.



It's a big company thing to do: play up the window dressing without
fussing too much with anything else.


I wouldn't call it window dressing. I work with a lot of graphics in my 
documents. The Anchored Frame dialog, Object Properties, Runaround 
Properties other other dialogue boxes can now stay on screen for easy 
access. The Inset pod lists all graphics in a document and makes it easy to 
jump to them. There's also a Fonts pod that lists fonts in a document and 
makes it easy to substitute different fonts. You can set up workspaces that 
display only the panels/pods you want and change workspaces with a click. 
And more.


I sure wouldn't besmirch the gang in India for their work on FM. Look at all 
the changes they've made in versions 8.0 and 9.0.-- like Unicode, for 
starters.  Compared to when development was in the U.S., you can see things 
happening. I've been using FM since version 6.0. Versions 7.0, 7.1, and 7.2 
were so little different that few upgraded. If you didn't use DITA, there 
wasn't much sense in it. And when we've reported bugs, the Indian gang has 
actually responded, worked with us, and fixed most of them. They've been 
quiet lately. No doubt they've been busy reading the next new version. Based 
on past cycles, it's due out anytime. I look forward to it.


Mike Wickham


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