RE: Translation question
Laura, Have multiple book files, one for the French, one for the English. Those books may share some files. Use conditional text to deal with that. -Gillian From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Laura Fergusson Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 4:18 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Translation question Hi all I'm starting to work on revamping user guides from another division in our company. One of the guides is currently in Word(!), in French, and I'm about to move it to FrameMaker and translate it into English at the same time. I have a question: Is there a case for just having ONE book file for this guide, which contains files which have both French and English in them (hidden or displayed by conditional text)? I can't decide if this is a good idea or not, or if I should instead have two completely separate books for the English and French guides. This will not be a one-off, btw, all guides for this division need both French and English versions. None of them seem horribly long or overly complicated. It may be that I should definitely maintain two separate versions - but I'm just not sure. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Laura ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Translation question
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:17:46 + From: Laura Fergusson l.fergus...@codestuff.net To: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Translation question I have a question: Is there a case for just having ONE book file for this guide, which contains files which have both French and English in them (hidden or displayed by conditional text)? I can't decide if this is a good idea or not, or if I should instead have two completely separate books for the English and French guides. This will not be a one-off, btw, all guides for this division need both French and English versions. None of them seem horribly long or overly complicated. It may be that I should definitely maintain two separate versions - but I'm just not sure. I've always done each language as their own chapter within a book, unless they will actually be distributed as two different books/manuals/files with two different part numbers (then they would just be two books). With any translations, you cannot always assume that text will be the same length as the language it was authored in, which can mean you'll have differences in layouts, page breaks, spacing, etc. - VJW ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Translation question
Hi Laura, If using translation memory, I would keep the languages separate since each memory is language specific. And, while French and English use the same character set, other languages require entirely different character sets and fonts to render those characters. You don't mention the outputs. If PDF, It is easy to combine books after rendering the PDF. Just my experience... Best, Mollye -- Mollye Barrett | ClearPath, LLC 414-331-1378 | mol...@clearpath.cc | www.clearpath.cc http://www.linkedin.com/in/mollyebarrett | http://www.twitter.com/mollye Skype: mollyebarrett On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 6:17 AM, Laura Fergusson l.fergus...@codestuff.netwrote: Hi all ** ** I’m starting to work on revamping user guides from another division in our company. ** ** One of the guides is currently in Word(!), in French, and I’m about to move it to FrameMaker and translate it into English at the same time. ** ** I have a question: Is there a case for just having ONE book file for this guide, which contains files which have both French and English in them (hidden or displayed by conditional text)? I can’t decide if this is a good idea or not, or if I should instead have two completely separate books for the English and French guides. ** ** This will not be a one-off, btw, all guides for this division need both French and English versions. None of them seem horribly long or overly complicated. ** ** ** ** It may be that I should definitely maintain two separate versions – but I’m just not sure. ** ** Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. ** ** Laura ** ** ** ** ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as mol...@clearpath.cc. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mollye%40clearpath.cc Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Translation question
First of all, how is the French to English translation going to take place? Hopefully, it will be done by professional translators using proper translation tools so a Translation Memory (TM) will be created for future translation rounds. Will the master file always be the French file? If so, then you might want to bring the French file into FM and once complete, have that translated into English. If the English translation will become the master file going forward, then I would have the Word file translated into English and then bring it into Frame. Personally, I wouldn't go near mixing the two languages in one book using conditional text. This will make future translations much more difficult and it will also cause problems if you ever translate into an additional language. I've overseen the translation of manuals into as many as 17 different languages and you want them all to stand on their own. Alison Craig Technical Documentation Lead 604-279-8550 | fax 604-279-8559 | toll-free 1-866-437-9508 Ultrasonix Medical Corporation | www.ultrasonix.comhttp://www.ultrasonix.com/ [cid:image001.gif@01CD6B34.E70CF570] From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Laura Fergusson Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 4:18 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Translation question Hi all I'm starting to work on revamping user guides from another division in our company. One of the guides is currently in Word(!), in French, and I'm about to move it to FrameMaker and translate it into English at the same time. I have a question: Is there a case for just having ONE book file for this guide, which contains files which have both French and English in them (hidden or displayed by conditional text)? I can't decide if this is a good idea or not, or if I should instead have two completely separate books for the English and French guides. This will not be a one-off, btw, all guides for this division need both French and English versions. None of them seem horribly long or overly complicated. It may be that I should definitely maintain two separate versions - but I'm just not sure. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Laura inline: image001.gif___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Translation question (risks and costs)
Hey Gillian -- I'd add an additional cost and risk factor into the mix (sorry for piling on ... ) Unless you set things up correctly (with the right investment in tools and services) You will end up without any translation memory, which means that you will end up translating the same phrases and sequences as individual items, rather than instances of a class, which has a significant risk of will this phrase get translated the same way in each of the 125 different locations, and a significant workload hit, in that it will have to be translated (and QA'd) 125 times. One way to mitigate this is to use a professional translation house to do the translation, but have your trainers-to-be do the QA/Local usage review. You'll still need someone to referee/arbitrage the differences, but you can then be fairly certain what is being presented to the end user of the document is what you intend, and that the trainers are familiar with what is in the document. (An added plus: they don't go off writing their own, or deprecating the existing document as useless -- both of which I have seen happen in English, as well as in other languages.) Grant -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whites Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:54 PM To: Gillian Flato Cc: framers@FrameUsers.com Subject: Re: Translation question I count about 2 1/2 people for each language -not counting the training. The 1/2 is the type who has experience with translation projects and knows the technology who dejargonizes the English original to ease the translation process.. Then there is the translator in the home country (Korea) who has been educated in Korean in the technology. (Thus, no literature grads translating electronics docs.) Finally, the American-based counterpart who reads Korean and who can verify that everything is in place. My experience is that local resources who know the technology but haven't been educated in the home country generally suffer from severe linguistic corruption (Chinglish, Spanglish, or whatever the equivalent would be for Korean and Japanese). And the people who know the technology but who are not professional translators just let too much slip through the cracks. Sorry for your VP - but if it's going to be done right, it'll cost some serious bucks - especially for the first few docs. will white On Mar 16, 2007, at 3:19 PM, Gillian Flato wrote: Guys, A VP at my company wants to hire a person whose main job functions are the following: Translate technical writing docs to Korean Train the Korean FSE's on the procedures in the docs. He also wants the same position for Japanese. Any idea the type of salary this person would command? Know anyone who qualifies? He thinks this would be cheaper than using a translation house since we have thousands of procedures that need translation and more efficient since the person would also be a trainer. Thank you, ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Translation question
It was a song by Ozzie Nelson. ** Ann Zdunczyk President a2z Publishing, Inc. Language Layout Translation Consulting Phone: (336)922-1271 Fax: (336)922-4980 Cell: (336)456-4493 http://www.a2z-pub.com ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Sgammato Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:39 PM To: Gillian Flato; framers@FrameUsers.com Subject: RE: Translation question unbidden from some dark corner of my mind, the memory I'm looking for a man who plays alto and baritone, doubles on the clarinet, and wears a size 37 suit. I have no idea where I remember that from. But whoever said it may be related to your VP... From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Gillian Flato Sent: Fri 3/16/2007 6:19 PM To: framers@FrameUsers.com Subject: Translation question Guys, A VP at my company wants to hire a person whose main job functions are the following: Translate technical writing docs to Korean Train the Korean FSE's on the procedures in the docs. He also wants the same position for Japanese. Any idea the type of salary this person would command? Know anyone who qualifies? He thinks this would be cheaper than using a translation house since we have thousands of procedures that need translation and more efficient since the person would also be a trainer. Thank you, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gillian Flato Technical Writer (Software) nanometrics 1550 Buckeye Dr. Milpitas, CA. 95035 (408.435.9600 x 316 7 408.232.5911 * [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] .com blocked::mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.co m Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/azdunczyk%40triad.rr.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Translation question
Let's see. * Bilingual Korean-English (or Japanese-English) * capable of translating proprietary technologies in optics, software and systems integration designed to meet the process control requirements of today’s advanced semiconductor technologies (I don't think I even understand that in English!!) * capable of training people on the above Does this person even exist in the universe? I'm going to go with, They would be very very very expensive. :-) Also, I'm pretty sure that your VP is mistaken. Like tech writers, a lot of translators are pretty introverted. Most trainers are pretty extroverted. Rare to find someone who would enjoy both kinds of work. This sounds like two different people to me. Sarah Gillian Flato wrote: Guys, A VP at my company wants to hire a person whose main job functions are the following: Translate technical writing docs to Korean Train the Korean FSE's on the procedures in the docs. He also wants the same position for Japanese. Any idea the type of salary this person would command? Know anyone who qualifies? He thinks this would be cheaper than using a translation house since we have thousands of procedures that need translation and more efficient since the person would also be a trainer. Thank you, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gillian Flato Technical Writer (Software) nanometrics 1550 Buckeye Dr. Milpitas, CA. 95035 (408.435.9600 x 316 7 408.232.5911 * [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] .com blocked::mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ### Sarah O'Keefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scriptorium Publishing Services, Inc. http://www.scriptorium.com Blog: http://www.scriptorium.com/palimpsest/ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Translation question
unbidden from some dark corner of my mind, the memory I'm looking for a man who plays alto and baritone, doubles on the clarinet, and wears a size 37 suit. I have no idea where I remember that from. But whoever said it may be related to your VP... From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Gillian Flato Sent: Fri 3/16/2007 6:19 PM To: framers@FrameUsers.com Subject: Translation question Guys, A VP at my company wants to hire a person whose main job functions are the following: Translate technical writing docs to Korean Train the Korean FSE's on the procedures in the docs. He also wants the same position for Japanese. Any idea the type of salary this person would command? Know anyone who qualifies? He thinks this would be cheaper than using a translation house since we have thousands of procedures that need translation and more efficient since the person would also be a trainer. Thank you, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gillian Flato Technical Writer (Software) nanometrics 1550 Buckeye Dr. Milpitas, CA. 95035 (408.435.9600 x 316 7 408.232.5911 * [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] .com blocked::mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Translation question
Gillian, Your VP doesn't want one those jobs done. There are more than enough man-hours to be full-time at either one of those positions. So which doesn't he want done, translation or training? Robert McNamara insisted on making the F111 a triple mission aircraft, reconnaissance, fighter, bomber. As a result the poor thing did three things equally poorly. Combining missions doesn't necessarily mean cost-effectiveness, savings, or efficiency. Scott At 3:19 PM -0700 3/16/07, Gillian Flato wrote: Guys, A VP at my company wants to hire a person whose main job functions are the following: Translate technical writing docs to Korean Train the Korean FSE's on the procedures in the docs. He also wants the same position for Japanese. Any idea the type of salary this person would command? Know anyone who qualifies? He thinks this would be cheaper than using a translation house since we have thousands of procedures that need translation and more efficient since the person would also be a trainer. Thank you, ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Translation question
I agree with the others, you are looking for 2 people. One to handle the translation and one to train. Your trainer should definitely be bilingual. Another thing that has not been mentioned is that the person or persons translating the documentation has to understand the technology that they are dealing with. Not sure why your VP thinks it would be cheaper to hire a person to handle the translation rather than using a translation house since the trend over the last 10 years or so has been to go the other way. I started out, in this business, with a company that had their own in-house translation and DTP group, later on this group was downsized and the translation and dtp was out sourced, leaving only project management and a very small group of translators in-house. ** Ann Zdunczyk President a2z Publishing, Inc. Language Layout Translation Consulting Phone: (336)922-1271 Fax: (336)922-4980 Cell: (336)456-4493 http://www.a2z-pub.com ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gillian Flato Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:19 PM To: framers@FrameUsers.com Subject: Translation question Guys, A VP at my company wants to hire a person whose main job functions are the following: Translate technical writing docs to Korean Train the Korean FSE's on the procedures in the docs. He also wants the same position for Japanese. Any idea the type of salary this person would command? Know anyone who qualifies? He thinks this would be cheaper than using a translation house since we have thousands of procedures that need translation and more efficient since the person would also be a trainer. Thank you, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gillian Flato Technical Writer (Software) nanometrics 1550 Buckeye Dr. Milpitas, CA. 95035 (408.435.9600 x 316 7 408.232.5911 * [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] .com blocked::mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/azdunczyk%40triad.rr.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Translation question
I count about 2 1/2 people for each language -not counting the training. The 1/2 is the type who has experience with translation projects and knows the technology who dejargonizes the English original to ease the translation process.. Then there is the translator in the home country (Korea) who has been educated in Korean in the technology. (Thus, no literature grads translating electronics docs.) Finally, the American-based counterpart who reads Korean and who can verify that everything is in place. My experience is that local resources who know the technology but haven't been educated in the home country generally suffer from severe linguistic corruption (Chinglish, Spanglish, or whatever the equivalent would be for Korean and Japanese). And the people who know the technology but who are not professional translators just let too much slip through the cracks. Sorry for your VP - but if it's going to be done right, it'll cost some serious bucks - especially for the first few docs. will white On Mar 16, 2007, at 3:19 PM, Gillian Flato wrote: Guys, A VP at my company wants to hire a person whose main job functions are the following: Translate technical writing docs to Korean Train the Korean FSE's on the procedures in the docs. He also wants the same position for Japanese. Any idea the type of salary this person would command? Know anyone who qualifies? He thinks this would be cheaper than using a translation house since we have thousands of procedures that need translation and more efficient since the person would also be a trainer. Thank you, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gillian Flato Technical Writer (Software) nanometrics 1550 Buckeye Dr. Milpitas, CA. 95035 (408.435.9600 x 316 7 408.232.5911 * [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] .com blocked::mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/ whitefamily%40mac.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ++ There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. - Twain ++ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
