Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Mike Hauber]

On Friday 11 February 2005 12:31 am, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> There can be only ONE 'flagship' logo just as there is only one
> company name in a conglomerate.  But there is plenty of space
> for different subsidiary marks for the product.
>
> For example, Chevrolet, Buick, Saturn, these are all part of
> General Motors.  However they have their own distinct brands
> and logos and such.  But, there is only ONE name for the
> company - GM - that is used when talking about the -entire-
> enchalada.

Heh...  This gives me an idea...  How about FreeBSD "skins."  The 
Beastie as the default (of course), and dis_ey-type themes for 
the "weak in the faith".  If FreeBSD's attempt is not to be 
offensive to anyone, anywhere, anytime, then perhaps it just 
needs to jump into a different skin for everybody (corporate or 
otherwise) it serves...  Perhaps a questionare to be filled out 
in the beginnings of sysinstall would let the system know what is 
to be considered "appropriate."

(hey...  anythings possible)  :)

Mike
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!

[Andrew L. Gould]

On Thursday 10 February 2005 11:38 pm, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dick
> > Davies Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:10 PM
> > To: FreeBSD Questions
> > Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo
> > suchasNetBSD!!!
> >
> > * Ted Mittelstaedt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [0255 08:55]:
> > >   Yep, I was wondering how long it would take before someone
> > > figured this one out.  We know the real rea$on$ that this logo
> > > change is being contemplated, don't we.
> >
> > You seem to think you do, certainly. Why don't you ask core instead
> > of reading their minds?
>
> Why should I when Robert Watson made the following quote in Advocacy:
>
> "We'd like to get a logo we can provide to companies that are willing
> to stick it on their products as "supporting FreeBSD"
>
> Explain how this has nothing to do with money, please?
>
> Ted

I thought it referred to FreeBSD driver support in retail products.  
Sure, it means the companies will get more of my money because there 
would be more compatible hardware that's easy to identify.  It does not 
necessarily equate to money for FreeBSD developers, however.

Andrew Gould
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Mike Hauber writes:

> Heh...  This gives me an idea...  How about FreeBSD "skins."  The
> Beastie as the default (of course), and dis_ey-type themes for 
> the "weak in the faith".  If FreeBSD's attempt is not to be 
> offensive to anyone, anywhere, anytime, then perhaps it just 
> needs to jump into a different skin for everybody (corporate or 
> otherwise) it serves...  Perhaps a questionare to be filled out 
> in the beginnings of sysinstall would let the system know what is 
> to be considered "appropriate."

This sort of idea betrays the geek atmosphere that pervades FreeBSD and
many other open-source efforts.  It might please geeks installing the
OS, but it only makes it look like a toy to people who are installing it
for serious use.  Nobody sitting in a machine room in front of a rack of
servers is going to care anything about "skins."

-- 
Anthony


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mode 1777 /var/mail

[Dikshie]

dear all,

how to keep /var/mail still on mode 1777 ?






regards,

-dikshie-
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo

[Karel Miklav]

Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Personally, I wonder how FreeBSD survives based exclusively on volunteer
efforts.  It's a noble idea, but in the real world, things cost money,
and people need to earn a living.  Something that survives exclusively
from the kindness of strangers leads a fragile existence.
No, this is wrong - you're just piling up arguments for your case. If 
the case is money you should also care about positioning and not 
splitting the eyeballs.

And if there'll ever be a really simple logo like red dot, red heart or 
plain FreeBSD name, where will you hide chuck from concernig citizens?

--
Regards,
Karel Miklav
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!

[Dick Davies]

* Ted Mittelstaedt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [0238 05:38]:
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dick Davies
> > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:10 PM
> > To: FreeBSD Questions
> > Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo
> > suchasNetBSD!!!
> >
> >
> > * Ted Mittelstaedt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [0255 08:55]:
> >
> > >   Yep, I was wondering how long it would take before someone figured
> > > this one out.  We know the real rea$on$ that this logo change is
> > > being contemplated, don't we.
> >
> > You seem to think you do, certainly. Why don't you ask core instead of
> > reading their minds?
> >
> 
> Why should I when Robert Watson made the following quote in Advocacy:

Because Robert Watson is'nt involved. Also then maybe this thread would die.
 
-- 
'Yeah, well I'm gonna build my own themepark! With blackjack aaand Hookers!
Actually, forget the park. And the blackjack.'
-- Bender
Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns
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Re: glade-2

[Dominik Epple]

On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 05:52:38AM +0100, Gert Cuykens wrote:
> Does anyone know how glade-2 works ?
> I made a test gui and now i would like to make a test executable of the gui ?

The menu option "Project -> Save" will save your project's xml files.

Then, "Project -> Build" will generate C code from your project,
together with files used for the GNU autoconf et al build system.

If you're not familiar with autoconf, you might want to read its
documentation (and that of automake also), see
http://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf and .../automake.

Then, on the command line, in the Directory where glade has written
your project:

% setenv ACLOCAL_FLAGS <...>

You need to set the ACLOCAL_FLAGS environment variable to the
directories containing the .m4 files which are needed by the
configure.in script. Have no access now to my FreeBSD box to look
up which directories these are -- have only Linux available here at
work... :\ Usually, it's something like
"-I /usr/X11R6/share/aclocal19 -I /usr/local/share/aclocal19"
or something like that.

% aclocal19 $ACLOCAL_FLAGS && autoheader259 && automake19 -a -c && autoconf259

(or whatever your aclocal and auto* binaries are available as).

Then run

% ./configure && make

which builds your executables.

> PS are there alternatives for glade ?

1. Take another widget set (though imho gtk is one of the best)

2. Write source code directly -- take a look at the C source files
   generated from glade, and visit http://www.gtk.org/tutorial/

Regards, Dominik.
-- 
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I can't BOOT! You all need to WAKE UP and HELP a BROTHER!!!

[Fafa Diliha Romanova]

Hello!

I am running a new HP Compaq DC7100 CMT. For more information, check:
http://www.antonline.com/p_PC928A-ABA--DC7100-CMT-P4-3.0-512MB-40GB-DVD-WXPP-3-3-3-_102136.htm

I've been trying to install FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE for a long time now.
Nobody has bothered to offer me a solution. Let alone a reason!

FreeBSD doesn't boot at all. It doesn't enter the loader prompt, it reboots
before it gets to it. Hence, I've been getting a lot of shit for not being
verbose enough. I've tried disabling ACPI and DMA from the BIOS, which doesn't
contain no settings relating to my use of OS.

I decided to try OpenBSD. And perhaps get more info out of it. But it seems
to be having a problem with my USB, freezing at boot:

uvm_fault[0xd05d62a0, 0x0, 0, 1) -> e
kernel: page fault trap, code = 0
Stopped at usb_schedsoftintr+0x10: movl 0x4(%edx),%eax
ddb>

But I need USB for almost all my devices, keyboard, mouse. So I grabbed this:

[ dmesg ]

OpenBSD 3.6-current (RAMDISK) #542: Sun Feb  6 14:27:42 MST 2005
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/RAMDISK
cpu0: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.20GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 3.20 GHz
cpu0: 
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,PNI,MWAIT,CNXT-ID
real mem  = 1073209344 (1048056K)
avail mem = 975433728 (952572K)
using 4278 buffers containing 53764096 bytes (52504K) of memory
mainbus0 (root)
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(e6) BIOS, date 06/16/04, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xeb560
pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.2 @ 0xeb560/0x4aa0
pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing Table rev 1.0 @ 0xf9600/240 (13 entries)
pcibios0: no compatible PCI ICU found: ICU vendor 0x8086 product 0x2640
pcibios0: Warning, unable to fix up PCI interrupt routing
pcibios0: PCI bus #4 is the last bus
bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xd000 0xcd000/0x1000 0xce000/0x2000 0xe9c00/0x6400!
cpu0 at mainbus0
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (no bios)
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel 915G/P/GV Host" rev 0x04
ppb0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 "Intel 915G/P/GV PCIE" rev 0x04
pci1 at ppb0 bus 1
vga1 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 vendor "ATI", unknown product 0x3e50 rev 0x00
wsdisplay0 at vga1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation)
vendor "ATI", unknown product 0x3e70 (class display subclass miscellaneous, rev 
0x00) at pci1 dev 0 function 1 not configured
ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 "Intel 82801FB PCIE" rev 0x03
pci2 at ppb1 bus 2
ppb2 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 "Intel 82801FB PCIE" rev 0x03
pci3 at ppb2 bus 3
"Broadcom BCM5751" rev 0x01 at pci3 dev 0 function 0 not configured
"Intel 82801FB USB" rev 0x03 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 not configured
"Intel 82801FB USB" rev 0x03 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 not configured
"Intel 82801FB USB" rev 0x03 at pci0 dev 29 function 2 not configured
"Intel 82801FB USB" rev 0x03 at pci0 dev 29 function 3 not configured
"Intel 82801FB USB" rev 0x03 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 not configured
ppb3 at pci0 dev 30 function 0 "Intel 82801BA AGP" rev 0xd3
pci4 at ppb3 bus 4
"Creative Labs SoundBlaster Audigy LS" rev 0x00 at pci4 dev 4 function 0 not 
configured
vendor "Creative Labs", unknown product 0x7005 (class input subclass 
miscellaneous, rev 0x00) at pci4 dev 4 function 1 not configured
vendor "AT&T/Lucent", unknown product 0x048c (class communications subclass 
miscellaneous, rev 0x03) at pci4 dev 9 function 0 not configured
"AT&T/Lucent FW322 1394" rev 0x61 at pci4 dev 11 function 0 not configured
pcib0 at pci0 dev 31 function 0 "Intel 82801FB LPC" rev 0x03
pciide0 at pci0 dev 31 function 1 "Intel 82801FB IDE" rev 0x03: DMA, channel 0 
configured to compatibility, channel 1 configured to compatibility
atapiscsi0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0
scsibus0 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets
cd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0:  SCSI0 5/cdrom 
removable
atapiscsi1 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 1
scsibus1 at atapiscsi1: 2 targets
cd1 at scsibus1 targ 0 lun 0:  SCSI0 5/cdrom 
removable
cd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 3
cd1(pciide0:0:1): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 2
pciide0: channel 1 disabled (no drives)
pciide1 at pci0 dev 31 function 2 "Intel 82801FB SATA" rev 0x03: DMA, channel 0 
configured to native-PCI, channel 1 configured to native-PCI
pciide1: using irq 5 for native-PCI interrupt
wd0 at pciide1 channel 0 drive 0: 
wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA48, 152627MB, 312581808 sectors
wd0(pciide1:0:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 5
isa0 at pcib0
isadma0 at isa0
pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5
pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot)
pckbc0: using irq 1 for kbd slot
wskbd0 at pckbd0 (mux 1 ignored for console): console keyboard, using wsdisplay0
npx0 at isa0 port 0xf0/16: using exception 16
pccom0 at isa0 port 0x3f8/8 irq 4: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo
fdc0 at isa0 port 0x3f0/6 irq 6 drq 2
fd0 at fdc0 drive 0: 1.44MB 80 cyl, 2 head, 18 sec
biomask ffed netmask ffed ttymask ffef
rd0: fixed, 3800 blocks
wd0: no disk label
root on rd0a
rootdev=0x1100 rrootdev=0x2f00 rawdev=0x2f02

[ ps ]

Re: SQL Questions

[Peter Risdon]

On Thu, 2005-02-10 at 18:42 -0500, Sean wrote:
> I would like to install SQL here for my own use, not for any real life 
> currently, round now for learning.
> 
> Right now plan to install MySQL.
> Looking through the ports there is numerous version and some say for 
> server, some say for client.
> 
> Looking for some tips as to what version of SQL and tools to install?
> Also wondering if anyone can point me towards documentation in my 
> learning efforts?

Hi,

I suggest you install the latest production version of mysql:

/usr/ports/databases/mysql41-server

which will install the client too. The command line client is an
excellent working environment but there are also several graphical
interfaces available. Try:

/usr/ports/databases/phpmyadmin

for a widely used web interface.

Mysql documentation can be found at:

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/index.html

and there are a lot of excellent books.

If you're thinking of trying web database programming and are
considering using php as the language, install php5 and mysqli
(mysqli[mproved]):

/usr/ports/lang/php5
and

/usr/ports/lang/php5-extensions
ticking the box for mysqli, or the extension port:

/usr/ports/databases/php5-mysqli

This is because php5 and mysqli can access some of the newer features in
mysql 4.1

php documentation can be accessed at:

http://www.php.net/manual/en/

HTH

Peter.

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Installation Fails (trap 12)

[Jon Francis]

Have been trying to install FreeBSD 5.3 (i386) onto a barebones PC with:
Biostar iDEQ 210P Athlon 64 machine
Nforce3 250Gb chipset
K8NBP motherboard
It fails quite early in the installation with the following message:
Can't re-use a leaf (recvspace)!
Can't re-use a leaf (maxdgram)!
Kernel trap 12 with interrupts disabled
Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode
fault virtual address = 0x63700061
fault code = supervisor read, page not present
instruction pointer = 0x8:0xc0613001
stack pointer= 0x10:0xc1021d50
frame pointer= 0x10:0xc1021d5c
code segment= base 0x0 limit 0xf, type 0x1b
  = DPL 0, pres 1, def 32 1, gran 1
processor eflags= resume, IOPL =0
current process = 0 ()
trap number = 12
panic  : page fault
uptime: 1s
Looking through the mailing lists I can see there are compatability 
problems with the Nforce3 chipset but only relating to driver problems 
with the NIC and sound card.

Have also seen some issues with APCI and APIC so I disabled both from 
the BIOS but still got the same message.

Any ideas?
Thanks,
Jon
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web hosting

[Cezar Fistik]

Hi all,

Does anyone know a good resource that would describe how to implement a web
hositng service? I mean a technical one, descibing which software is better
to use, security mesures and in general how to set up a web hosting sysem
from a sysadmin point of view. I would appreciate if you could give me any
suggestions.

Thank you very much.

Cezar


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Re: SQL Questions

[Jan Branbergen]

>I would like to install SQL here for my own use, not for any real life
> 
> currently, round now for learning.
> 
> Right now plan to install MySQL.
> Looking through the ports there is numerous version and some say for
> 
> server, some say for client.
> 
> Looking for some tips as to what version of SQL and tools to
> install?
> Also wondering if anyone can point me towards documentation in my 
> learning efforts?

i would like to suggest PostgreSQL if your objective is learning SQL. MySQL 
only provides a subset.

it is by no means more complicated to install or to get started.

regards,

Jan

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Re: I can't BOOT! You all need to WAKE UP and HELP a BROTHER!!!

[Erik Norgaard]

Fafa Diliha Romanova wrote:
I am running a new HP Compaq DC7100 CMT. For more information, check:
http://www.antonline.com/p_PC928A-ABA--DC7100-CMT-P4-3.0-512MB-40GB-DVD-WXPP-3-3-3-_102136.htm
I've been trying to install FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE for a long time now.
Nobody has bothered to offer me a solution. Let alone a reason!
1st: People have tried to answer you, if spam-blocking means you don't 
get mail, consider changing the configuration if you can, else take a 
look in the archives,

  http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2005-February/
2nd: Don't cross-post, bugs@ is not the list to post to untill you have 
positively identified it as a bug, in which case you should submit a 
problem report.

3rd: Don't SHOUT, and don't swear in the subject line, people might 
simply delete your mail.

4th: There is regularly sent an email about how to get the best out of 
the mailinglist, read it. If you haven't received a copy you can read it 
here: http://www.lemis.com/questions.html

5th: People can only help you based on the information you provide. If 
you have a dificult problem, or do not provide sufficient information, 
expect answers to come more slowly.

...
n'th: Your problem is difficult to debug since you don't get far enough 
to grap some output message. To recite my own response to your last mail:

There is a boot-only cd that you can use for rescue purposes, (I'm not
sure if the install cd will work also. The install cd will give you
sysinstall so you can repeat any steps that might have failed.)
You should be able to get a shell and use the most basic commands, a
good one is dmesg - yeah, I know it's a bit difficult to grap the output
and paste it in your next post :-(.
Things to try: can you mount your partitions? can you find /sbin/init or
/stand/sysinstall? Things to post: output of dmesg, your drive
partitions, other stuff that you think is usefull.
Using the install disk you can also reinstall the boot manager or mbr. 
If you don't get to the boot prompt, then could be that: your mbr is 
screwed, your disk geometry is not recognized, or your partition table 
is screwed. Sometimes bios and fbsd do not agree on the disk geometry.

Hope this helps you debug the problem.
Cheers, Erik
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Re: I can't BOOT! You all need to WAKE UP and HELP a BROTHER!!!

[Dick Davies]

* Fafa Diliha Romanova <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [0239 10:39]:
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I am running a new HP Compaq DC7100 CMT. For more information, check:
> http://www.antonline.com/p_PC928A-ABA--DC7100-CMT-P4-3.0-512MB-40GB-DVD-WXPP-3-3-3-_102136.htm
> 
> I've been trying to install FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE for a long time now.
> Nobody has bothered to offer me a solution. Let alone a reason!

Well, no one knows an answer probably mate. 

As a a total stab, try toggling 'pnp os installed'.
 
> FreeBSD doesn't boot at all. It doesn't enter the loader prompt, it reboots
> before it gets to it.

Then it sounds like the bootcode does'nt like your machine to me.
Does 4.x work?

-- 
'common sense is what tells you that the world is flat.'
-- Principia Discordia
Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns
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Re: disappearance of /dev/mem

[Stephane Le Maure]

Thanks You Kris,

It works now, i will not forget any more to read the UPDATING now.

still thank you.
Stéphane.

> On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 10:00:51PM +0100, St?phane Le Maure wrote:
>> Hello all
>>
>> I have a big problem since the upgrade of 5.2 towards 5.3.
>> The file /dev/mem does not exist any more in /dev and thus all the
>> programs using this file does not function any more.
>> There of another person is who has the concern.
>> Thank you very much for your assistance.
>
> Add 'device mem' to your kernel (you probably also want 'device io').
> In general, read /usr/src/UPDATING whenever you update your system.
>
> Kris
>


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log viewer

[peter.lidell]

Hello,

I am looking for a good log viewer. It would be a plus if it comes with a gui 
but not a must. Do any of you guys use or have heard of a good log viewer tool 
for FreeBSD?

Thanks for your time.

Regards

Peter
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First time DNS setup

[kilim]

Hello,

I'm trying to set up my DNS server and before I go ahead I wanna ask
you to tell me if my config is right.

Thank you.

This is my setup:

FreeBSD 5.3 with Bind 9.3
My Static IP: 123.456.789.999 (example only, obviously)
My domain name: really-cool-domain.com (example too)

my named.conf:


options {
directory   "/etc/namedb";
pid-file"/var/run/named/pid";
dump-file   "/var/dump/named_dump.db";
statistics-file "/var/stats/named.stats";
version "None of your business";

listen-on   { 127.0.0.1; 123.456.789.999 };

// is this ok ?


forwarders {
My_ISPs_DNS1;
My_ISPs_DNS2;
};

query-source address * port 53;
};

zone "." {
type hint;
file "named.root";
};

// whats going on here below

zone "0.0.127.IN-ADDR.ARPA" {
type master;
file "master/localhost.rev";
};

// IPv6 stuff omited !

zone "really-cool-domain.com" {
type master;
file "master/really-cool-domain.com";
};


Thank you !

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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Bart Silverstrim]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 2:18 AM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
That is so not true that it makes me almost as angry as the original
debate.
Maybe getting angry about a mere logo is a bad sign.
Just to sum up things as I understand it...
People want to change the logo from Beastie to something else because 
Beastie isn't professional enough, so some committers decided to hold a 
contest for a new logo?

Out of curiosity, is Beastie so terrible, a logo, that a business would 
be stupid enough to base their server decisions based on it?  Would you 
care if a business were that dumb...would you actually *want* them 
using it?

Someone said people change logos all the time.  That's flat out wrong.  
When a company spends mucho dinero on marketing their logo, they don't 
just flip around and decide to change their logo that they spent so 
much money and time getting mindshare with.  Have any examples of logos 
that have constantly changed?

Windows' logo isn't even a logo.  It's a flag of a window pane falling 
apart in the breeze.  I associate windows with broken glass.  These 
things don't seem to hinder Windows from getting massive market share.

Since when did FreeBSD, a project always driven by volunteers and not 
by commercial matters, suddenly gain a marketing department that is 
trying to steer FreeBSD into the business sector?  Is FreeBSD starting 
to have marketing dictate technology instead of technology dictate 
marketing?

Or is this all some sneaky way of saying that Beastie is too much like 
the Devil and this new logo contest is a way to slip out the 
connotative Beastie with some other more politically correct symbol, 
like the drive in American classrooms for Intelligent Design to be 
taught in science classes ("It's not Creationism! It's not Creationism! 
 It's *science*...")

Just asking, since I was largely ignoring the thread but got curious 
after so MANY posts were made about the topic.

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Re: DNS virgin

[kilim]

On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 04:41:52PM -0600, Kevin Kinsey wrote:
> kilim wrote:
> 

> >  Now that I've registered a certain domain through godaddy.com I
> >  wish to set up my own DNS server. In the Godaddy's web interface
> >  there is a way to set two new DNS server. Can I just put one of the
> >  server to be my DNS primary leaving out the secondary ? Or can I
> >  leave their server to be my secondary ?
> >
> > 



> That said, you could put a site "on the air" without a secondary,
> but I wouldn't charge people to use it.  ;-)

Would it be possible to have only one DNS server to start with and then
get a second one later, on a different subnet ?

Or would this be possible: put this first dns server up and second aswell, 
but then later take the second one off and move it to a different network ?



Thank you 
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!

[Frank Laszlo]

Oliver Leitner wrote:
alot of discussions going on the past 48 hours about this topic, i guess 
there is alot of room for explanations left, that ppls want to hear, why not 
give the ppls that actually stand behind FreeBSD and behind the logo contest 
or whatever it is a chance to tell us what they where thinking about when 
they started the contest?

also id like to know, *is* FreeBSD now coperate, like the previous poster 
tried to point out, or do we still have the bsd license here?

 


I wasnt really trying to make the point, but it does almost seem that 
way. I guess I'm not using the right words. "More exposure to the 
corporate world."  Maybe thats a little better.

__
Frank Laszlo
System Administrator
The VonOstin Group
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW:http://www.vonostingroup.com
Mobile: 248-863-7584

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Re: Can I...

[Leandro D'Addario]

Tnx a lot for your fast answer ;)
I will try it and i will say you if i'll have problems.
Regards, Leandro


On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:11:05 -0600, Eric Kjeldergaard
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi there!
> > I would to know if i can install the last relase of freeBSD on my computer.
> > It's an acer travelmate 201t(It's old i know), celeron 600, 320Mb RAM, HD 
> > 4.7Gb.
> >
> > Can I have problems with KDE (I' ve already had with Mandrake 10...)?!?
> > There is a way to fix these problems (I see the screen only during the
> > install phase (with graphics), then at the reboot the screen becomes
> > black)...
> > I hope there will be no problems with freeBSD.
> > Thank You Leandro
> 
> This would probably be better sent to -mobile, but as long as it's here...
> 
> You can almost assuredly run freeBSD with KDE on that system.  I did
> with my 366mhz thinkpad and it was fine.  If you had the availability
> of more RAM, it would be helpful, but 320 would cut it.  I'm not sure
> what your video issues were with Mandrake and you didn't send your
> video card spex/brand/etc.  It seems from a quick google search that
> people got FreeBSD running on a computer of that model since they are
> asking how to get the winModem running.  I recommend trying it and
> seeing if it works.
> 
> 
> --
> If I write a signature, my emails will appear more personalised.
>
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another logo such asNetBSD!!!

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

I love the, so called "evil" beastie but it's not like the idea of a new 
logo will make the FreeBSD OS any different!

Here's a good view: Get over it... build a bridge... go write some 
software or do something else *useful* that makes a real difference.

If you guy's, love beastie so much, get him printed on your forehead 
next to a love heart and stop wasting FreeBSD.org's bandwidth and my 
time reading this poo!

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributing/index.html
--
Cheers, Mick
E-mail:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: www.deathnet.id.au


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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Greg Barniskis]

Bart Silverstrim wrote:
Out of curiosity, is Beastie so terrible, a logo, that a business would 
be stupid enough to base their server decisions based on it?  Would you 
care if a business were that dumb...would you actually *want* them using 
it?
The problem (from my point of view) really has a lot more to do with 
having to communicate about an OS after it is selected, rather than 
the act of selection (which is rightly based on technical merit). I 
need to communicate about ongoing server operations with boards of 
trustees, with my immediate customers, and indirectly with their 
customers. I can't use Beastie in these discussions because I can't 
afford the time to explain the multiple "inside jokes" re: 
daemon/demon, the tennis shoes, etc., over and over and over again, 
and I really, really can't afford to lose a debate about FreeBSD's 
"appropriateness".

While the amusing subtleties embodied in the Beatie emblem are 
indeed endearing to the IT community, they are a serious *drag* when 
communicating to the less clueful.

Windows' logo isn't even a logo.  It's a flag of a window pane falling 
apart in the breeze.  I associate windows with broken glass.  These 
things don't seem to hinder Windows from getting massive market share.
My board of directors never looked at the Windows logo and said 
"What the f#$% is that!?". Argue all you like about the fact that 
people need to be more open and clueful, and how precious Beatie's 
legacy is (I agree it is), the bottom line is that some rather 
important people aren't very clueful, and many of them can't ever be 
expected to be clueful, and I don't have time to educate dozens of 
people every time I want to compare our organization's use of 
various OS flavors.

So, I limit myself to indicating "FreeBSD" by text only, and I know 
that the impact of that on the decision makers is somewhat lower 
than if I had a stylin' graphic suitable for use in official 
communications like uptime graphs, scope of use, service 
dependencies, project activities, etc.

OK, so now maybe I expect some flamage about bein' chicken, not 
standing up for what's right, etc. Well, horse hockey. I have a duty 
to my employer not to waste everyone's time with the deamon/demon 
discussion (over and over and over again). It would be one thing if 
we could do it once and get it over with, but that is clearly not 
the case.

--
Greg Barniskis, Computer Systems Integrator
South Central Library System (SCLS)
Library Interchange Network (LINK)
, (608) 266-6348
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Re: DNS virgin

[Vince Hoffman]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005, kilim wrote:
On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 04:41:52PM -0600, Kevin Kinsey wrote:
kilim wrote:

 Now that I've registered a certain domain through godaddy.com I
 wish to set up my own DNS server. In the Godaddy's web interface
 there is a way to set two new DNS server. Can I just put one of the
 server to be my DNS primary leaving out the secondary ? Or can I
 leave their server to be my secondary ?


That said, you could put a site "on the air" without a secondary,
but I wouldn't charge people to use it.  ;-)
Would it be possible to have only one DNS server to start with and then
get a second one later, on a different subnet ?
Or would this be possible: put this first dns server up and second aswell,
but then later take the second one off and move it to a different network ?
Both are possible. you just need to keep the configs in sync (the master 
knowing where the secondary is and vice versa) and update the listed 
nameservers at Godaddy.

 >

Thank you
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Re: DNS virgin

[kilim]

On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 02:00:11PM +, Vince Hoffman wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2005, kilim wrote:
> 
> >On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 04:41:52PM -0600, Kevin Kinsey wrote:
> >>kilim wrote:
> >>
> >
> >>> Now that I've registered a certain domain through godaddy.com I
> >>> wish to set up my own DNS server. In the Godaddy's web interface
> >>> there is a way to set two new DNS server. Can I just put one of the
> >>> server to be my DNS primary leaving out the secondary ? Or can I
> >>> leave their server to be my secondary ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >>That said, you could put a site "on the air" without a secondary,
> >>but I wouldn't charge people to use it.  ;-)
> >
> >Would it be possible to have only one DNS server to start with and then
> >get a second one later, on a different subnet ?
> >
> >Or would this be possible: put this first dns server up and second aswell,
> >but then later take the second one off and move it to a different network ?
> 
> Both are possible. you just need to keep the configs in sync (the master 
> knowing where the secondary is and vice versa) and update the listed 
> nameservers at Godaddy.

Thanks a lot ! :) You've helped me. 

 
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Dag-Erling Smørgrav]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Imagine Linux dropping Tux for some meanlingless, lifeless logo?

I'm glad you asked.

Tux is a mascot, not a logo.  These are Linux logos:

http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topiccaldera.gif
http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicdebian.gif
http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicmandrake.gif
http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicredhat.gif
http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicsuse.gif
http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicturbolinux.gif

The image that is sometimes used as an all-round Linux logo is not
"just Tux", but rather a particular representation of Tux in
combination with a logotype and an orange splash.  The author of that
logo is clearly aware of the distinction between a logo and a mascot:

http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/logo/

Likewise, Beastie is a mascot, not a logo.  In fact, it fails the
primary and most important test of logoness: it is not exclusive to
the FreeBSD project, but is shared by all BSD projects.  It also fails
several other important tests of logoness: it is not under the FreeBSD
project's direct control (our use of it is subject to the whim and
mercy of Kirk McKusick); it is not a registered trademark; it is
probably too diluted already to even be eligible to be registered as a
trademark.  This does not even begin to consider the technical aspects
(ease of reproduction, scalability, representability in monochrome,
recognizability under different and sometimes difficult conditions,
etc.)

Here's a page (a NetBSD logo contest entry) which addresses many of
these concerns, and coincidentally underlines my point about the
daemon not being exclusive to FreeBSD:

http://homepage.mac.com/codesamurai/netbsd-logo-entry/

(this is so good I'm surprised NetBSD didn't adopt it, and I'd love to
see it submitted to the FreeBSD logo contest)

DES
-- 
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Louis LeBlanc]

On 02/11/05 09:52 AM, Anthony Atkielski sat at the `puter and typed:
> Mike Hauber writes:
> 
> > Heh...  This gives me an idea...  How about FreeBSD "skins."  The
> > Beastie as the default (of course), and dis_ey-type themes for 
> > the "weak in the faith".  If FreeBSD's attempt is not to be 
> > offensive to anyone, anywhere, anytime, then perhaps it just 
> > needs to jump into a different skin for everybody (corporate or 
> > otherwise) it serves...  Perhaps a questionare to be filled out 
> > in the beginnings of sysinstall would let the system know what is 
> > to be considered "appropriate."
> 
> This sort of idea betrays the geek atmosphere that pervades FreeBSD and
> many other open-source efforts.  It might please geeks installing the
> OS, but it only makes it look like a toy to people who are installing it
> for serious use.  Nobody sitting in a machine room in front of a rack of
> servers is going to care anything about "skins."

They why would they care *what* the logo is?  Those of us that use
FreeBSD every day on our desktops for 99.999% of everything we do on a
computer of any kind would be more likely to have an opinion.

Which should also be obvious by the length of this and at least one
other thread on the subject here on questions alone.  I haven't even
checked on advocacy.

I'm just going to say this.  I use FreeBSD for EVERYTHING I do until
I'm forced to open a word doc someone else will have to edit and see.
I know there are alternatives, but they don't seem to have some of the
features needed for the stuff I get at work.

Regardless, I never had a problem with Beastie.  I like him.  He is
the only mascot/logo/whatever associated with an OS (other than the
window) that is actually relevant.  What the hell does a penguin have
to do with Linux?  What does a red hat have to do, except to repeat
the name?  Even Puffy isn't really relevant except to try to represent
the security features -why not an armadillo?

Even when I was a "spiritual" and "faithful" Catholic, I never had a
problem with Beastie.  I know that christians buy Deviled Ham every
day, watch the Blue Devils play football or whatever it is they do,
and use Red Devil paints and caulking to winterize their houses, and
don't think twice, but now Beastie is coming under fire because he's
red, has horns and a tail and a fork.  Must be Satan.  Therefore
people that love FreeBSD love Satan.  That's logic.

I don't think I have the energy to keep posting to this thread.  I
have other things to deal with.  I'm just going to restate my opinion
here one last time.

There were obviously some assumptions made about the intentions of the
core group.  Most, if not all were probably wrong.  At least about
the way they were planning this whole contest.  I don't think anyone
ever intended to doubt the fact they are genuinely interested in
nothing more than spreading FreeBSD and it's welfare.  The more people
that use it the better appreciated they'll feel.  Perfectly
reasonable.  I suspect that whether they are right or wrong about
Beasties impact on the spread is the only issue at hand.

Beastie is relevant, he's well liked by those that understand him.
There is no good reason to remove him.  You want to build a multi
faced distribution with "skins", go right ahead.  Contrary to the
previous post, I don't think I'd really have any problem with it.
Just don't remove the beastie images from the distribution, and don't
make it a pain in the ass to keep him in the boot screen.

I know there will be plenty of people that disagree, but these are my
opinions and I'm sticking with them.  No, not blindly.  Maybe I'm just
not business savvy, but I never set out to be.  I *have* my reasons
for wanting the look of FreeBSD to stay the same, and they're not
based on other peoples sensitivities, beliefs or hysteria.

Just let me know if the beastie shirts go on sale.  I'll stock up.

Lou
-- 
Louis LeBlanc  FreeBSD-at-keyslapper-DOT-net
Fully Funded Hobbyist,   KeySlapper Extrordinaire :)
Please send off-list email to: leblanc at keyslapper d.t net
Key fingerprint = C5E7 4762 F071 CE3B ED51  4FB8 AF85 A2FE 80C8 D9A2

Cahn's Axiom:
  When all else fails, read the instructions.


pgpymdtHoZBtT.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: wireless-to-wired bridging

[Lowell Gilbert]

"Reid Linnemann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I have a question that is more of a networking question than a BSD
> question, but I am hoping someone out there has faced this same dilemma
> before and has some advice:
> 
> I have a FreeBSD machine running -current that servers as a router for my
> home LAN, using nat. I recently tossed in a DLink DWL-G520 wireless card
> (ath0), and bridged that interface to the internal LAN interface on the
> machine (rl1). After a bit of configurating, I had the ath interface in
> hostap mode, and everything was working great - except the wired clients
> cannot route to eachother.
> 
> I am suspicious that, since the wired network is in AP mode, if a
> wireless client wants to send a packet to another wireless client, it
> must be sent to the AP, which should theoretically redirect the packet
> to the appropriate host on the wireless net. In the wired network, a
> switch handles this automagically on the datalink layer without those
> messages hitting the rl1 interface of the BSD router. I've looked at
> the bridge code, and it seems that unless a packet is multicast or
> broadcast it will be copied to the other bridge interfaces but not
> returned to the original caller. Since the packets being sent between
> wireless clients are not broadcast, I think they are getting dumped into
> the black hole of the wired LAN, and not being processed and pumped back
> out through the ath interface. Is this a correct assumption? Are there
> ways I can overcome this problem?

I think that you mixed up the terms "wired" and "wireless" in some
(but not all) of the uses above.  This makes it somewhat harder to
follow the problem.

I would actually suggest that you make the wireless link a separate
subnet from the Ethernets.  802.11 really is a different protocol than
802.1, and I don't think you'll get any performance benefit from
bridging in this case.
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Greg Barniskis]

Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote:
Here's a page (a NetBSD logo contest entry) which addresses many of
these concerns, and coincidentally underlines my point about the
daemon not being exclusive to FreeBSD:
http://homepage.mac.com/codesamurai/netbsd-logo-entry/
That is not bad. But is it sufficiently different from the original 
Beastie that it is not burdened with being a "derivative worK" in 
terms of copyright?

Understanding that this distinction cannot be really certain except 
as a consequence of litigation on that point, the underlying 
question is "Do you really want to go there?". I suppose the 
solution to the potential ambiguity for this or any other comparable 
logo would be to get McKusick to sign off on it in some formal way, 
indicating "that is not Beastie".

--
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South Central Library System (SCLS)
Library Interchange Network (LINK)
, (608) 266-6348
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Napper]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 07:53:17 -0600
Greg Barniskis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Bart Silverstrim wrote:
> 
> > Out of curiosity, is Beastie so terrible, a logo, that a business would 
> > be stupid enough to base their server decisions based on it?  Would you 
> > care if a business were that dumb...would you actually *want* them using 
> > it?
> 
> The problem (from my point of view) really has a lot more to do with 
> having to communicate about an OS after it is selected, rather than 
> the act of selection (which is rightly based on technical merit). I 
> need to communicate about ongoing server operations with boards of 
> trustees, with my immediate customers, and indirectly with their 
> customers. I can't use Beastie in these discussions because I can't 
> afford the time to explain the multiple "inside jokes" re: 
> daemon/demon, the tennis shoes, etc., over and over and over again, 
> and I really, really can't afford to lose a debate about FreeBSD's 
> "appropriateness".
> 
> While the amusing subtleties embodied in the Beatie emblem are 
> indeed endearing to the IT community, they are a serious *drag* when 
> communicating to the less clueful.
> 
> > Windows' logo isn't even a logo.  It's a flag of a window pane falling 
> > apart in the breeze.  I associate windows with broken glass.  These 
> > things don't seem to hinder Windows from getting massive market share.
> 
> My board of directors never looked at the Windows logo and said 
> "What the f#$% is that!?". Argue all you like about the fact that 
> people need to be more open and clueful, and how precious Beatie's 
> legacy is (I agree it is), the bottom line is that some rather 
> important people aren't very clueful, and many of them can't ever be 
> expected to be clueful, and I don't have time to educate dozens of 
> people every time I want to compare our organization's use of 
> various OS flavors.
> 
> So, I limit myself to indicating "FreeBSD" by text only, and I know 
> that the impact of that on the decision makers is somewhat lower 
> than if I had a stylin' graphic suitable for use in official 
> communications like uptime graphs, scope of use, service 
> dependencies, project activities, etc.
> 
> OK, so now maybe I expect some flamage about bein' chicken, not 
> standing up for what's right, etc. Well, horse hockey. I have a duty 
> to my employer not to waste everyone's time with the deamon/demon 
> discussion (over and over and over again). It would be one thing if 
> we could do it once and get it over with, but that is clearly not 
> the case.

I think that exactly the need Core is trying to address along 
with addressing the mechanics of logo (not mascot) reproduction.

Its been my experience that the corporate suits get the
perception of "teenage hacker" from the cartoonish mascots.  Truth
or not, perception is what matters and we do need something a
bit more mature and professional.

Whether or not I like the mascot is beside the point entirely.
I want to see FreeBSD grow and penetrate new market areas.  I
fully expect things to change to accomodate this and support
Core's decisions.  I hope others can get past their emotional
reactions and approach this from a practical standpoint.

There's been far too much discussion and speculation about all
this.  Just wait for the official announcement.  The draft of
the contest announcement did not necessarily indicate what will
be in the final document.

Nap


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Re: wireless-to-wired bridging

[Reid Linnemann]

On 2/11/2005, "Lowell Gilbert"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>"Reid Linnemann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> I have a question that is more of a networking question than a BSD
>> question, but I am hoping someone out there has faced this same dilemma
>> before and has some advice:
>>
>> I have a FreeBSD machine running -current that servers as a router for my
>> home LAN, using nat. I recently tossed in a DLink DWL-G520 wireless card
>> (ath0), and bridged that interface to the internal LAN interface on the
>> machine (rl1). After a bit of configurating, I had the ath interface in
>> hostap mode, and everything was working great - except the wired clients
>> cannot route to eachother.
>>
>> I am suspicious that, since the wired network is in AP mode, if a
>> wireless client wants to send a packet to another wireless client, it
>> must be sent to the AP, which should theoretically redirect the packet
>> to the appropriate host on the wireless net. In the wired network, a
>> switch handles this automagically on the datalink layer without those
>> messages hitting the rl1 interface of the BSD router. I've looked at
>> the bridge code, and it seems that unless a packet is multicast or
>> broadcast it will be copied to the other bridge interfaces but not
>> returned to the original caller. Since the packets being sent between
>> wireless clients are not broadcast, I think they are getting dumped into
>> the black hole of the wired LAN, and not being processed and pumped back
>> out through the ath interface. Is this a correct assumption? Are there
>> ways I can overcome this problem?
>
>I think that you mixed up the terms "wired" and "wireless" in some
>(but not all) of the uses above.  This makes it somewhat harder to
>follow the problem.
>
>I would actually suggest that you make the wireless link a separate
>subnet from the Ethernets.  802.11 really is a different protocol than
>802.1, and I don't think you'll get any performance benefit from
>bridging in this case.

I'm bridging the devices so that the wired and wireless nets will appear
to be on the same physical network to eachother.

I think I was really tired when I wrote my original email.. so let me
rewrite my hypothesis:

I am suspicious that, since the wireless interface on the BSD machine
operates in AP mode, if a wireless client wants to send a packet to
another wireless client, it must be first sent to the wireless interface
of the BSD machine, which should theoretically redirect the packet to
the appropriate host on the wireless net. In the wired network, a switch
handles this case automagically on the datalink layer before any
messages can hit the rl1 interface of the BSD router. I've looked at
the bridge code, and it seems that unless a packet is multicast or
broadcast it will be copied to the other bridged interfaces but not
returned to the original caller. Since the packets being sent from one
wireless client to another are not broadcast, I think that the bridge
module may be dumping them into the black hole of the wired LAN, and
they are not being processed and pumped back out through the ath
interface. Is this a correct assumption? Are there ways I can overcome
this problem?

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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Bart Silverstrim]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 8:53 AM, Greg Barniskis wrote:
Bart Silverstrim wrote:
Out of curiosity, is Beastie so terrible, a logo, that a business 
would be stupid enough to base their server decisions based on it?  
Would you care if a business were that dumb...would you actually 
*want* them using it?
The problem (from my point of view) really has a lot more to do with 
having to communicate about an OS after it is selected, rather than 
the act of selection (which is rightly based on technical merit). I 
need to communicate about ongoing server operations with boards of 
trustees, with my immediate customers, and indirectly with their 
customers. I can't use Beastie in these discussions because I can't 
afford the time to explain the multiple "inside jokes" re: 
daemon/demon, the tennis shoes, etc., over and over and over again, 
and I really, really can't afford to lose a debate about FreeBSD's 
"appropriateness".

While the amusing subtleties embodied in the Beatie emblem are indeed 
endearing to the IT community, they are a serious *drag* when 
communicating to the less clueful.
I suppose if my employers were that close in resemblance to the PHB in 
Dilbert, I'd probably just not use the logo and use some text version 
of the OS name.  That is, if they care enough to question it.  My 
employers don't know anything about our servers, and they don't care to 
know about them either, so they don't question it; just my immediate 
supervisor cares enough to know about the situation.

Maybe as an experiment I should introduce the logo sometime to the 
administrative staff to see if they question it.

I'm missing the part about the tennis shoes though.  I didn't realize 
that was part of the joke...? :-)

Windows' logo isn't even a logo.  It's a flag of a window pane 
falling apart in the breeze.  I associate windows with broken glass.  
These things don't seem to hinder Windows from getting massive market 
share.
My board of directors never looked at the Windows logo and said "What 
the f#$% is that!?". Argue all you like about the fact that people 
need to be more open and clueful, and how precious Beatie's legacy is 
(I agree it is), the bottom line is that some rather important people 
aren't very clueful, and many of them can't ever be expected to be 
clueful, and I don't have time to educate dozens of people every time 
I want to compare our organization's use of various OS flavors.

So, I limit myself to indicating "FreeBSD" by text only, and I know 
that the impact of that on the decision makers is somewhat lower than 
if I had a stylin' graphic suitable for use in official communications 
like uptime graphs, scope of use, service dependencies, project 
activities, etc.
I suppose you could always migrate to OpenBSD.  I always liked the 
blowfish.

My personal approach if stuck without a cluebat would be to just make 
something up just for your presentations.  If you honestly think they 
are going to run into FreeBSD info out there on the in-tar-net, they're 
GOING to get exposed to the evil devil like being.  And that logo, like 
it or not, is going to continue floating around out there.  It can't be 
pushed aside like some dark family secret.

Most clueless management have interest spans regarding technology that 
lasts about as long as the meeting in which they're exposed to the 
forbidden information.  Get the McDonald's logo or get a picture of a 
stack of pancakes and use that for your presentation.  I doubt they'd 
care about the difference.  Why have the world bend to the will of the 
minority to please a couple PHBs?  That's thinking like a PHB...

OK, so now maybe I expect some flamage about bein' chicken, not 
standing up for what's right, etc. Well, horse hockey. I have a duty 
to my employer not to waste everyone's time with the deamon/demon 
discussion (over and over and over again). It would be one thing if we 
could do it once and get it over with, but that is clearly not the 
case.
If it's your duty not to waste their time with daemon/demon (etc), why 
are you bringing it up?  Oh, you mean THEY are bringing it it up.  
After you already explained it.  So THEY're the problem, since they 
aren't listening and remembering.  AND they're wasting your time by 
having you review the material again and rehash issues regarding a 
*logo* instead of what the meeting is supposed to be about?

Just checking.
Your duty should be to answer their questions and go over pertinent 
information for the presentation.  If they want to know about it 
*again*, give them the info.  If they keep forgetting, print up a 
pamphlet.  There may already be stuff at the FreeBSD advocacy sites 
ready to print.

--
Greg Barniskis, Computer Systems Integrator
South Central Library System (SCLS)
Library Interchange Network (LINK)
, (608) 266-6348

You work in a library and yet they don't want to be educated.  I always 
found that ironic.

The best way to punish educated people?  Make them read.  I found that 
the longer my ema

xinerama with an "ati radeon 9200se"

[Didier Wiroth]

Hi,

I've installed freebsd 5.3 with xorg 6.8.1 (from ports).

I've an "ati radeon 9200se" graphic adapters which has:
a) 1 x digital connector
b) 1 x analog connector

On the digital connector I've a philips lcd monitor and on the
analog connector I've a sony lcd monitor connected.

Unfortunately I'm not only able to get a signal in x11 on the digital
output
(which is connected to the sony lcd monitor). The monitors show a
message "no signal".

Actually running "Xorg -configure" only detects the monitor connected to
the analog output.

What ever I tried I was not able to get a signal on the digital out of
the card?!

When not running X I have a cloned console mode. On both screen I can
see the same consoles.
As soon as I startx only 1 screen works, the one connected to the analog
Monitor.

I (of course) tried to configure a second screen, defining sections etc,
Screen 0, Screen 1, ServerLayout stuff etc
like here for example:
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Dual_Monitors

May be someone is alreay using a more less equal config with an "ati
9200se" in xinerama mode?
Could you please send me your xorg.conf?

Any help is welcome, please give me some suggestions.

In advance, thanks a lot!!!
Didier



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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!

[Louis LeBlanc]

On 02/10/05 10:30 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt sat at the `puter and typed:
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Louis LeBlanc
> > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 7:59 AM
> > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> > Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo
> > suchasNetBSD!!!
> >
> 
> >
> > Those technical criteria were NOT drawn out in community fashion.
> > They forgot one very important thing:
> > The logo must be historically significant.
> >
> > That bit about not offending anyone is bullshit plain and simple.  I
> > for one think this whole PC movement is bull.  Don't get me wrong, I'm
> > all for peoples right to live their lives, but the PC movement should
> > have died exactly two days after it started.
> >
> 
> Louis,
> 
>   There is a difference between deliberately making people feel bad and
> offending people.  The PC movement originally started with the noble
> idea that people should not try to deliberately make other people
> unhappy.  This idea works very well with young children, and I must
> admit that I agree with it.

I disagree.  That's just good education.  The PC movement was a social
requirement to analyze every thing you say lest someone find a way to
be offended by it.  It did masquerad as a formalization of the idea,
but the idea that you shouldn't deliberately make other people feel
bad was certainly around 37 years ago when Mr. and Mrs. LeBlanc
brought their son home from the hospital.  I suspect it was around
long before then.

My 5 year old never needed to be told or taught not to hurt others'
feelings.  That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  She, however, becomes
quite upset when she's told - however gently - that she's just done or
said something offensive.  That's the way children are when their
parents take a real interest early on.  All we did is make her aware
of her own natural empathy.  She'd probably be a doormat if we really
tried to bring that out.

>   The problem is that when certain individuals get older, they start
> to believe that when someone does something that they don't approve of,
> that has no effect on their lives in any way, shape or form,
> that somehow it hurts them.  For example Ashcroft was certain that when
> 2 gays somewhere got married, that he suffered personal injury.  It is
> these people who have perverted the PC doctorine into something along
> the lines of "well you 2 fags are getting married only to get me
> so upset that I cannot ever get an erection again, so I'm justified
> in taking a club to you and beating your brains in"

I couldn't possibly agree more.  PC became into the new
fundamentalism; it was used primarily as a social weapon instead of a
teaching paradigm.  Zero Tolerance is the new one.

> Beastie became the FreeBSD Project's logo for many reasons, liking
> it was only one of them.  However never at any time did this happen
> just to spite fundies.  Nor does use of this logo affect fundies on
> a personal level, they aren't required to look at it if they run
> FreeBSD, nor are they required to talk about it.  Therefore it is a
> perversion of the politically correct doctorine for fundies to claim
> that use of Beastie isn't politically correct.
> 
> It is just like the breastfeeding in public debate.  It is a sad state of
> affairs in this country today when states have had to pass laws
> (like NY did) that specifically permit a woman to flop out her tit to
> feed a hungry child, because the fundies think that seeing a tit
> somehow harms them.

Agreed.  It's just hard to see people understanding how the backlash
from these societal errors could translate into a fervent wish to keep
a little red dude with horns and a tail on your computer.  Other than
these, I have to admit that the best reason I have for keeping him is
that I like him and he's too ingrained to ever really be removed
anyway.  The "business" reasons in favor of changing him just don't
make sense, but I have seen companies do better after a logo change.
The social reasons just piss me off - possibly for no good reason.

So, do you draw the line in the sand here, or just step back?  I've
drawn my lines before, and most of the time I'm *made* to step back.
Every time you draw another line, you get more fanatical or more
tired.  If you rankle over the lines you've drawn in the past, you get
more fanatical.  Otherwise those lines start to make less sense and
you just get tired and start accepting the ideals you drew lines
against.

Lou
-- 
Louis LeBlanc  FreeBSD-at-keyslapper-DOT-net
Fully Funded Hobbyist,   KeySlapper Extrordinaire :)
Please send off-list email to: leblanc at keyslapper d.t net
Key fingerprint = C5E7 4762 F071 CE3B ED51  4FB8 AF85 A2FE 80C8 D9A2

One can't proceed from the informal to the formal by formal means.


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Description: PGP signature

Re: glade-2

[Gert Cuykens]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:38:13 +0100, Dominik Epple
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 05:52:38AM +0100, Gert Cuykens wrote:
> > Does anyone know how glade-2 works ?
> > I made a test gui and now i would like to make a test executable of the gui 
> > ?
> 
> The menu option "Project -> Save" will save your project's xml files.
> 
> Then, "Project -> Build" will generate C code from your project,
> together with files used for the GNU autoconf et al build system.
> 
> If you're not familiar with autoconf, you might want to read its
> documentation (and that of automake also), see
> http://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf and .../automake.
> 
> Then, on the command line, in the Directory where glade has written
> your project:
> 
> % setenv ACLOCAL_FLAGS <...>
> 
> You need to set the ACLOCAL_FLAGS environment variable to the
> directories containing the .m4 files which are needed by the
> configure.in script. Have no access now to my FreeBSD box to look
> up which directories these are -- have only Linux available here at
> work... :\ Usually, it's something like
> "-I /usr/X11R6/share/aclocal19 -I /usr/local/share/aclocal19"
> or something like that.
> 
> % aclocal19 $ACLOCAL_FLAGS && autoheader259 && automake19 -a -c && autoconf259
> 
> (or whatever your aclocal and auto* binaries are available as).
> 
> Then run
> 
> % ./configure && make
> 
> which builds your executables.
> 
> > PS are there alternatives for glade ?
> 
> 1. Take another widget set (though imho gtk is one of the best)
> 
> 2. Write source code directly -- take a look at the C source files
>generated from glade, and visit http://www.gtk.org/tutorial/
> 
> Regards, Dominik.
> --
> 

thx i think i will just go for the editing source code option :)

PS When i build in c it works but when i try c++ i get this ?

Error running glade-- to generate the C++ source code.
Check that you have glade-- installed and that it is in your PATH.
Then try running 'glade-- ' in a terminal.

Anybody know why ? 

PS is there much difference between C and C++ ?
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Re: log viewer

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Feb 11), [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> I am looking for a good log viewer. It would be a plus if it comes
> with a gui but not a must. Do any of you guys use or have heard of a
> good log viewer tool for FreeBSD?

less?

and if you want a GUI, less in an xterm

-- 
Dan Nelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: xinerama with an "ati radeon 9200se"

[Michael Nottebrock]

On Friday, 11. February 2005 16:01, Didier Wiroth wrote:
> May be someone is alreay using a more less equal config with an "ati
> 9200se" in xinerama mode?

Here's mine (I use two analog CRTs, one connected to the dvi-port with the 
dvi-rgb adapter). Ignore the VMware stuff in there, it's an alternative 
server layout.

-- 
   ,_,   | Michael Nottebrock   | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 (/^ ^\) | FreeBSD - The Power to Serve | http://www.freebsd.org
   \u/   | K Desktop Environment on FreeBSD | http://freebsd.kde.org
Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier "Dualhead"
Screen  0  "Screen0"
Screen  1  "Screen1" RightOf "Screen0"
InputDevice"Mouse0" "CorePointer"
InputDevice"Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
Option "Xinerama" "on"
EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier  "VMware"
Screen  "VMscreen"
InputDevice "Mouse1" "CorePointer"
InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

Section "Files"
RgbPath  "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb"
ModulePath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules"
FontPath"/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc"
FontPath"/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo"
FontPath"/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1"
FontPath"/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi"
FontPath"/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi"
FontPath"/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/bitstream-vera"
FontPath"/usr/local/share/fonts"
FontPath"/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts"
EndSection

Section "Module"
Load  "extmod"
Load  "glx"
Load  "dri"
Load  "dbe"
Load  "record"
Load  "xtrap"
Load  "speedo"
Load  "type1"
Load "freetype"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier  "Keyboard0"
Driver  "keyboard"
Option  "XkbLayout" "de"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier  "Mouse0"
Driver  "mouse"
Option  "Protocol" "auto"
Option  "Device" "/dev/sysmouse"
Option  "Buttons" "7"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier  "Mouse1"
Driver  "vmmouse"
Option  "Protocol" "auto"
Option  "Device" "/dev/sysmouse"
Option  "ZAxisMapping"  "4 5"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"

#DisplaySize  330   240 # mm
Identifier   "Monitor0"
VendorName   "NEC"
ModelName"NEC FE700"
HorizSync31.0 - 70.0
VertRefresh  55.0 - 120.0
Option  "DPMS"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
#DisplaySize  330   240 # mm
Identifier   "Monitor1"
VendorName   "Hyundai"
ModelName"ImageQuest Q790"
HorizSync30.0 - 97.0
VertRefresh  50.0 - 150.0
Option  "DPMS"
EndSection

Section "Device"

### Available Driver options are:-
### Values: : integer, : float, : "True"/"False",
### : "String", : " Hz/kHz/MHz"
### [arg]: arg optional
#Option "NoAccel"   # []
#Option "SWcursor"  # []
#Option "Dac6Bit"   # []
#Option "Dac8Bit"   # []
#Option "ForcePCIMode"  # []
#Option "BusType"   # []
#Option "CPPIOMode" # []
#Option "CPusecTimeout" # 
#Option "AGPMode"   # 
#Option "AGPFastWrite"  # []
#Option "AGPSize"   # 
#Option "GARTSize"  # 
#Option "RingSize"  # 
#Option "BufferSize"# 
#Option "EnableDepthMoves"  # []
#Option "EnablePageFlip"# []
#Option "NoBackBuffer"  # []
#Option "PanelOff"  # []
#Option "DDCMode"   # []
#Option "MonitorLayout" # []
#Option "IgnoreEDID"# []
#Option "OverlayOnCRTC2"# []
#Option "CloneMode" # []
#Option "CloneHSync"# []
#Option "CloneVRefresh" # []
#Option "UseFBDev"  # []
#Option "VideoKey"  # 
#Option "DisplayPriority"   # []
#Option "PanelSize" # []
#Option "ForceMinDotClock"  # 
Identifier  "Card0"
Driver  "radeon"
VendorName  "ATI Technologies Inc"
BoardName   "Unknown Board"
BusID   "PCI:1:0:0"
EndSection

Section "Device"
Identifier  "Card0-DVI"
Driver  "radeon"
VendorName  "ATI Technologies Inc"
BoardName   "Unknown Board"
Screen  1
BusID   "PCI:1:0:0"

Re: Simulating webserver load balancing

[Gerard Samuel]

Nick Pavlica wrote:
Here are a couple of other solutions to look at:
http://www.inlab.de/balance.html
http://pythondirector.sourceforge.net/
--Nick
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 22:07:20 -0500, Gerard Samuel
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 

Im looking for suggestions for a port and/or tips that would assist me in
setting up a webserver cluster.
But the catch is, I only have one physical webserver.
I want to simulate an environment to test some code
that I wrote.
Thanks for anything that you can provide...
Thanks for the links
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linux_base compatibility issue? Counter-Strike

[Jaron Parsons]

Derrick Ryalls,

I came across a post you made regarding the following erros on the CS source
with freebsd 4.9

 

 

Illegal instruction (core dumped)

cat: hlds.12893.pid: No such file or directory

Deprecated bfd_read called at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/binutils/gdb/../../../../contrib/gdb/gdb/dwarf2read.c
line 3049 in dwarf2_read_section

 

 

Dwarf Error: Cannot handle DW_FORM_strp in DWARF reader.

/lib/libm.so.6: No such file or directory.

debug.cmds:1: Error in sourced command file:

email debug.log to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

 

 

 

Did you ever figure out a resolu8tion to the problem or is the only fix to
upgrade to 5.3 ?

 

 

 

 

 

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks

Jaron Parsons

 

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Re: formatting a DVD+RW

[Marc Fonvieille]

On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 11:33:48PM +, Xian wrote:
> On Thursday 10 February 2005 21:51, Marc Fonvieille wrote:
> 
> > Under 5.X or 4.X ?
> 
> 5.3R
>

You have to read
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/creating-dvds.html

Marc
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Re: Please don't change Beastie [bike shed, EOT]

[Greg Barniskis]

Bart Silverstrim wrote:
I'm missing the part about the tennis shoes though.  I didn't realize 
that was part of the joke...? :-)
goes to "why is it cartoonish?", "the shoes mean 'fast'", etc.
Your duty should be to answer their questions and go over pertinent 
information for the presentation.  If they want to know about it 
*again*, give them the info.  If they keep forgetting, print up a 
pamphlet.  There may already be stuff at the FreeBSD advocacy sites 
ready to print.
It's not just a small group of people (the board), nor is it the 
same people for very long (rotating appointments), it's the boards 
and customers of all regional libraries (numbering dozens and 
hundreds of thousands). Having IT staff explain and defend 
"daemon/demon" simply does not scale, is my point. Even if it did, 
there's still the problem of people who are not convinced by the 
logical explanation (the willfully clueless).

Anyway as amusing as this topic is, I am personally /dev/nulling all 
related threads now, with a parting shot repeating my opinion that 
this whole thing is a *bike shed*.

To the defenders of the "no change!" position: if your argument is 
based mainly on love of Beastie or hatred of cluelessness, please 
consider stepping away from the bike shed while those interested in 
the more mundane aspects of this problem design a shed based on more 
practical concerns. ;-)

If a new, more practical shed emerges, I will be happy. If not, I 
will continue to use a high fence to obscure the view of the shed 
that I cannot use. I would of course be thrilled with a solution 
that used a sysinstall "theme" choice for boot screens and other 
"logo embedded" aspects of the OS so that at work I could use the 
"professional theme" while at home I could let Beastie roar.

--
Greg Barniskis, Computer Systems Integrator
South Central Library System (SCLS)
Library Interchange Network (LINK)
, (608) 266-6348
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Re: glade-2

[Rob]

> PS When i build in c it works but when i try c++ i
get this ?
> 
> Error running glade-- to generate the C++ source
code.
> Check that you have glade-- installed and that it is
in your PATH.
> Then try running 'glade-- ' in a
terminal.
> 
> Anybody know why ? 
> 
> PS is there much difference between C and C++ ?

Go to:
 http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/glade-users

where you find people that know everything about
glade and related issues.

Rob.



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too many procmail processes running

[David Banning]

My machine is running too many procmail processes. I believe that
they are taking too long to run.  Eventually it shuts down my machine.

Any idea what could be causing this?

-- 
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RE: xinerama with an "ati radeon 9200se"

[Didier Wiroth]

 Thanks a lot.
Unfortunately still the same result! "no signal" on the digital output.

-Original Message-
From: Michael Nottebrock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 16:22
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Didier Wiroth; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: xinerama with an "ati radeon 9200se"

On Friday, 11. February 2005 16:01, Didier Wiroth wrote:
> May be someone is alreay using a more less equal config with an "ati
> 9200se" in xinerama mode?

Here's mine (I use two analog CRTs, one connected to the dvi-port with
the dvi-rgb adapter). Ignore the VMware stuff in there, it's an
alternative server layout.

--
   ,_,   | Michael Nottebrock   | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 (/^ ^\) | FreeBSD - The Power to Serve | http://www.freebsd.org
   \u/   | K Desktop Environment on FreeBSD | http://freebsd.kde.org



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Re: xinerama with an "ati radeon 9200se"

[Michael Nottebrock]

On Friday, 11. February 2005 16:41, Didier Wiroth wrote:
>  Thanks a lot.
> Unfortunately still the same result! "no signal" on the digital output.

Perhaps you're feeding your LCD/TFT with a signal it can't handle? Try 
conservative timings (60Hz refresh rate).

-- 
   ,_,   | Michael Nottebrock   | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 (/^ ^\) | FreeBSD - The Power to Serve | http://www.freebsd.org
   \u/   | K Desktop Environment on FreeBSD | http://freebsd.kde.org


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Description: PGP signature

Re: I need a cuppa...

[John]

On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 01:10:31AM -0600, John wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 09:46:03PM -0800, Joshua Tinnin wrote:
> > On Thursday 10 February 2005 09:01 pm, John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 10:53:21PM -0800, Loren M. Lang wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 10:10:00AM -0600, John wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 09:05:22PM -0800, Tabor Kelly wrote:
> > > > > > Jonathan Chen wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 09:06:17PM -0600, John wrote:
> > > > > > >>OK, I must be dumb as a rock, because this has to have been
> > > > > > >> discussed and documented 16 ways from Sunday, but I've
> > > > > > >> looked in the FAQ, and looked in the Handbook, and I've gone
> > > > > > >> through my copy of the latest edition of _The Complete
> > > > > > >> FreeBSD_, but I simply do NOT get how to get Java support
> > > > > > >> for FreeBSD.  I don't need the JDK, unless that's the only
> > > > > > >> way to get a viable JRE.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You can't get a separate 1.4+ JRE for FreeBSD, you need to
> > > > > > > install the JDK; the JDK is available as a port in
> > > > > > > java/jdk14.
> > >
> > > OK - I'm going to cut out a lot of the old, resolved history here,
> > > and cut to the chase.
>
> > > (FreeBSD pearl.starfire.mn.org 5.3-STABLE FreeBSD 5.3-STABLE #3: Thu
> > > Jan 27 23:26:17 CST 2005    
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/PEARL  i386) I
> > > get the following:
>...
> > > a+rx /usr/local/bin/registervm: not found
> > > *** Error code 127
> > >
> > > Stop in /usr/ports/java/jdk14.
> > > pearl#
> > >
> > > Anybody got any clues for me?
> > 
> > You need to install /usr/ports/java/javavmwrapper. When this happens, 
> > sometimes it's worthwhile to search on Google for the name of file that 
> > gave you the problem. In this case it's registervm, which caused the 
> > install to fail because it's not found on your system. javavmwrapper 
> > installs registervm, which I found by checking pkg_info -W registervm 
> > on my system, because it's already there, but a Google search will also 
> > show people who had the same problem, e.g., 
> > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2003-August/015208.html
> > 
> > Just so you know ...

OK, for anyone following along or for those who may be sifting
through the archives in the future...

I installed the javavmwrapper, and re-ran the install.  It errored
out complaining that javavm was already registered.  I looked at
the code, and it was a shell script, so I followed the code
and found that it was looking for the entry in /usr/local/etc/javavms
so I just nuked that file.

The "make install" of jdk14 then succeeded!  Yippee!

When I tried to run java, however, I it said that it needed
libm.so.2 and my system is already at libm.so.3, so I created
an /etc/libmap.conf file as follows:

[/usr/local/jdk1.4.2/]  # All Java 1.4.1 programs use libthr
# This works because "javavms" executes
# programs with the full pathname
libm.so.2   libm.so.3

This is probably because the server on which this was built is
still running 5.2.1 and the system I'm installing it on is
5.3-STABLE.  Now that I think of it, this is probably a BAD
IDEA.  I'm going to go back and upgrade the system that built
it, and do a "make clean" and "make" for jdk14, then do the
"make deinstall" and "make install" for this and see if
I can't get rid of the libmap stuff, but for the moment, at least,
I can do the following:
java -version
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 
1.4.2-p7-john_01_feb_2005_15_43)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.4.2-p7-john_01_feb_2005_15_43, mixed mode)

Yeee hah!

Now I have to get physically near the machine and try the plugin hurdles
and see if I can get java web stuff to run...
-- 

John Lind
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Dick Davies]

* Bart Silverstrim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [0201 13:01]:
> 
> On Feb 11, 2005, at 2:18 AM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
> 
> >Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
> >
> >>That is so not true that it makes me almost as angry as the original
> >>debate.
> >
> >Maybe getting angry about a mere logo is a bad sign.
> 
> Just to sum up things as I understand it...
> 
> People want to change the logo from Beastie to something else because 
> Beastie isn't professional enough, so some committers decided to hold a 
> contest for a new logo?

Let me correct you there. This is what happened.

Someone wanted a logo in addition to beastie.
Someone got the wrong end of the stick.
Everyone with an opinion decided to tell everyone it.
 

-- 
'My life, and by extension everyone else's, is meaningless.'
-- Bender
Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns
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Re : Re: xinerama with an "ati radeon 9200se"

[Didier Wiroth]

Yes, I had already changed that, both have:
VertRefresh 60
But it still doesn't work
On Friday, 11. February 2005 16:41, Didier Wiroth wrote:
>  Thanks a lot.
> Unfortunately still the same result! "no signal" on the digital output.

Perhaps you're feeding your LCD/TFT with a signal it can't handle? Try 
conservative timings (60Hz refresh rate).

-- 
   ,_,   | Michael Nottebrock   | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 (/^ ^\) | FreeBSD - The Power to Serve | http://www.freebsd.org
   \u/   | K Desktop Environment on FreeBSD | http://freebsd.kde.org
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Re: Can't get anything better than 800x600 resolution

[Nathan Kinkade]

On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 03:56:46PM -0500, RL wrote:
> I just got an Nvida PCI GeForce FX card, installed the NVIDIA drivers
> correctly (it loads), did an xorgconfig, and made the appropriate
> changed in xorg.conf.  I have a "DefaultDepth 24" line and under depth
> 24 I have Modes "1024 x768" etc...  However, when I load X, it loads
> at 800x600 and I can't up its resolution in GNOME nor can I up in on
> my keyboard with the numeric +/- keys.

Is is just a typo that you have "1024 x768" with a space between "1024"
and the "x"?  If not, then remove that space.  Also, browse through
/var/log/Xorg.0.log and it should tell you why it rejects a particular
resolution.  Here is a tiny snip from my Xorg.0.log file as an example:

(II) NV(0): Not using default mode "512x384" (bad mode 
clock/interlace/doublescan)
(II) NV(0): Not using default mode "1280x960" (hsync out of range)
(II) NV(0): Not using default mode "640x480" (hsync out of range)

(WW) (1400x1050,Monitor0) mode clock 122MHz exceeds DDC maximum 110MHz

(II) NV(0): Not using default mode "1152x864" (width too large for virtual size)
(II) NV(0): Not using default mode "1152x768" (width too large for virtual size)
(--) NV(0): Virtual size is 1024x768 (pitch 1024)
(**) NV(0): *Default mode "1024x768": 94.5 MHz, 68.7 kHz, 85.0 Hz

And there are a lot more lines than this, and you can see that there are
various reasons why X might not allow a particular resolution or
setting.

Nathan


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Description: PGP signature

Re: too many procmail processes running

[Jerry McAllister]

> 
> My machine is running too many procmail processes. I believe that
> they are taking too long to run.  Eventually it shuts down my machine.
> 
> Any idea what could be causing this?

We saw that sort of thing with some of our systems.  I did not work
on that problem, but I seem to remember that it had to do with a
bug that the procmail processes were not finishing and just hanging
around.  I don't remember what was done to fix it and the guy who
worked on it isn't here right now.  But, you might search for something
about procmail processes not finishing/terminating properly.

jerry

> 
> -- 
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Re: Script Questions

[Nathan Kinkade]

On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 04:24:34PM -0800, Chris Sechiatano wrote:
> > Use -print0 (that's a zero at the end of print), and the -0 option of
> > xargs.  Then the whitespace shouldn't matter.
> > 
> > # cd /storage/users
> > # find . -type d -print0 | xargs -0 du -sk
> > 
> > That should do it.
> > 
> > - Giorgos
>
> This is close to what I was trying before.  Is there a way I can pipe the
> output of locate into xargs?  The filesystem is 680 Gigs and I'd like to
> only search it once if possible.
> 
> This doesn't work:
> 
> # slocate -i -d /tmp/04vfile001_db *.wmv | xargs -0 ls -l

How about using differnt tools altogether?  If you are not concerned
with lots of little files, but mostly worried about lots of large files
then how about using a mixture of find(1) and du(1)?  You can pass a
-size argument to find that will only give you files greater than a
certain size, for example:

# find /home/users -size +10240k > big_files

This should find every file that exceeds approx. 10MB in size and dump
the output to file for later parsing.  Or if you are concerned with  the
overall size of a particular group of directories (perhaps those of
users) something like this should work:

# find /home/users -type d -maxdepth 1 | xargs du -sh

Nathan


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Vonleigh Simmons]

People want to change the logo from Beastie to something else because
Beastie isn't professional enough, so some committers decided to hold a
contest for a new logo?
	As an artist here is how I see it: Beastie is a mascot, not a logo. 
It's like having "Disney" with a Mickey Mouse. The logo is either the 
word Disney in that very distinct font, or the black ears. The mascot 
can be part of the logo but not always; in the Disney example it's 
derived from it (this approach could work with Beastie). Another 
example is monster.com, that also has a distinct mascot and a logo 
(don't like the logo, just pointing it out).

	So the logo contest could use beastie in some interesting way: framed, 
simplified, stylized, vectorized, etc.  In other words made into a real 
logo from the cartoon character. By stylize I mean for example what the 
fox looks like in the firefox logo.

	Changing logos is never a good thing, it's best done if it's done 
gradually (think apple losing the stripes). However I don't feel like 
freebsd has ever really had a logo identity to begin with. Just look 
here, all the beasties are different:


	If you're going to use beastie just standing like that, it has to be 
done much better, vectorize it or do it at a higher resolution. There 
needs to be a real professional logo.

	Finally: it's not about marketing, it's not about commercialization, 
it's about image. This is a very professional product, many people have 
contributed years of very hard work to get FreeBSD where it is today. 
The logo should show the dedication to the project and the high quality 
to which it aspires. If the image looks like it's drawn by a 15 year 
old[1], then that's what the project will look like. Ya, "don't judge a 
book by it's cover" sounds great if no one did it.


Vonleigh Simmons

[1] No offense intended. I don't think beastie is bad in any way, I 
just think that it looks dated; even the lettering for FreeBSD is dated 
as well.

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(mySQL) benchmarks strike back

[Jorge Mario G.]

Hi there

I just read
http://software.newsforge.com/software/04/12/27/1243207.shtml?tid=72&tid=29%20result
and as in any onther benchmark there is a lot stuff
that
can be arguable. I would like to know why is that
happening?
the problem is that "we" are pushing
FreeBSD/postgreSQL as a database solution, and I am
the guy to blame to, because I  was the one who did
advocacy for FreeBSD, so I'm sure my boss is going to
ask me.  And you told us to use FreeBSD instead of
Linux?
and I do not want to answer him "beastie is way more
cool"

I'm doing my own research but some help from here
would be nice!!!


Jorge Mario Mazo

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How to get best results from FreeBSD-questions

[Greg Lehey]

How to get the best results from FreeBSD questions.
===

Last update $Date: 2004/09/19 02:40:48 $

This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD questions mailing list.  If
you got it in answer to a message you sent, it means that the sender
thinks that at least one of the following things was wrong with your
message:

- You left out a subject line, or the subject line was not appropriate.
- You formatted it in such a way that it was difficult to read.
- You asked more than one unrelated question in one message.
- You sent out a message with an incorrect date, time or time zone.
- You sent out the same message more than once.
- You sent an 'unsubscribe' message to FreeBSD-questions.

If you have done any of these things, there is a good chance that you
will get more than one copy of this message from different people.
Read on, and your next message will be more successful.

This document is also available on the web at
http://www.lemis.com/questions.html.

=

Contents:

I:Introduction
II:   How to unsubscribe from FreeBSD-questions
III:  Should I ask -questions, -newbies or -hackers?
IV:   How to submit a question to FreeBSD-questions
V:How to answer a question to FreeBSD-questions

I: Introduction
===

This is a regular posting aimed to help both those seeking advice from
FreeBSD-questions (the "newcomers"), and also those who answer the
questions (the "hackers").

   Note that the term "hacker" has nothing to do with breaking
   into other people's computers.  The correct term for the latter
   activity is "cracker", but the popular press hasn't found out
   yet.  The FreeBSD hackers disapprove strongly of cracking
   security, and have nothing to do with it.

In the past, there has been some friction which stems from the
different viewpoints of the two groups.  The newcomers accused the
hackers of being arrogant, stuck-up, and unhelpful, while the hackers
accused the newcomers of being stupid, unable to read plain English,
and expecting everything to be handed to them on a silver platter.  Of
course, there's an element of truth in both these claims, but for the
most part these viewpoints come from a sense of frustration.

In this document, I'd like to do something to relieve this frustration
and help everybody get better results from FreeBSD-questions.  In the
following section, I recommend how to submit a question; after that,
we'll look at how to answer one.

II:  How to unsubscribe from FreeBSD-questions
==

When you subscribed to FreeBSD-questions, you got a welcome message
from [EMAIL PROTECTED]  In this message, amongst
other things, it told you how to unsubscribe.  Here's a typical
message:

  Welcome to the freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list!

If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to
or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your
subscription page at:

  http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
(obviously, substitute your mail address for "[EMAIL PROTECTED]").  You can
also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to:

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
with the word 'help' in the subject or body (don't include the
quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions.

You must know your password to change your options (including
changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.
  
Normally, Mailman will remind you of your freebsd.org mailing list
passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you
prefer.  This reminder will also include instructions on how to
unsubscribe or change your account options.  There is also a button on
your options page that will email your current password to you.

  Here's the general information for the list you've
  subscribed to, in case you don't already have it:

  FREEBSD-QUESTIONS   User questions
  This is the mailing list for questions about FreeBSD.  You should not
  send "how to" questions to the technical lists unless you consider the
  question to be pretty technical.

Normally, unsubscribing is even simpler than the message suggests: you
don't need to specify your mail ID unless it is different from the one
which you specified when you subscribed.

If Majordomo replies and tells you (incorrectly) that you're not on
the list, this may mean one of two things:

  1.  You have changed your mail ID since you subscribed.  That's where
  keeping the original message from majordomo comes in handy.  For
  example, the sample message above shows my mail ID as
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Since then, I have changed it to
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  If I were to try to remove [EMAIL PROTECTED] from
  the list, it would fail: I would have to specify the name with
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  2.  You're subscribed to a mailing list which is subscribed t

"The Complete FreeBSD": errata and addenda

[Greg Lehey]

The trouble with books is that you can't update them the way you can a web page
or any other online documentation.  The result is that most leading edge
computer books are out of date almost before they are printed.  Unfortunately,
The Complete FreeBSD, published by O'Reilly, is no exception.  Inevitably, a
number of bugs and changes have surfaced.

"The Complete FreeBSD" has been through a total of five editions, including its
predecessor "Installing and Running FreeBSD".  Two of these have been reprinted
with corrections.  I maintain a series of errata pages.  Start at
http://www.lemis.com/errata-4.html to find out how to get the errata
information.

Have you found a problem with the book, or maybe something confusing?  Please
let me know: I'm constantly updating it.

Greg
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Bart Silverstrim writes:

> People want to change the logo from Beastie to something else because
> Beastie isn't professional enough, so some committers decided to hold a
> contest for a new logo?

Beastie isn't a logo.  There is no logo for FreeBSD at the moment.
Creating one is probably a good idea.

> Out of curiosity, is Beastie so terrible, a logo, that a business would
> be stupid enough to base their server decisions based on it?

Overall, no.  But some business owners are stupid.

A more likely problem is that the devil-worship aspect of Beastie might
prevent religiously fanatic potential customers from considering the OS
in the first place, thus making it impossible to get a foot in the door.
Once someone knows something about the operating system, I doubt that
Beastie makes any difference, even among highly religious people.

> Would you care if a business were that dumb...would you actually
> *want* them using it?

They could be dumb in that way, but still smart in IT.  There's
certainly no shortage of people in that category.

> Windows' logo isn't even a logo.  It's a flag of a window pane falling
> apart in the breeze.

It meets the criteria for a logo.

> Since when did FreeBSD, a project always driven by volunteers and not
> by commercial matters, suddenly gain a marketing department that is 
> trying to steer FreeBSD into the business sector?  Is FreeBSD starting
> to have marketing dictate technology instead of technology dictate 
> marketing?

Would you prefer that FreeBSD remain the best kept secret on the Web?
It's a good operating system ... why not promote it?  It's better than
Linux.  It would be nice to see a technically superior product actually
win, for once.

-- 
Anthony


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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Louis LeBlanc writes:

> They why would they care *what* the logo is?

They wouldn't; but the logo has an effect on the people who write the
checks, and it serves a useful purpose as a unifying identifier.

The people who write the checks don't care about "skins," though, since
they'll never actually use the OS.

> Those of us that use FreeBSD every day on our desktops for 99.999% of
> everything we do on a computer of any kind would be more likely to
> have an opinion.

Some of us are so busy using FreeBSD for productive work that we don't
have time to play with "skins."  In the server configurations for which
FreeBSD is best suited, it really doesn't need any kind of GUI at all,
and is more efficient without one.

> Which should also be obvious by the length of this and at least one
> other thread on the subject here on questions alone.  I haven't even
> checked on advocacy.

Most of the people here are behaving like teenage boys.  Which means
they are _not_ behaving anything like IT professionals or business
decision makers.

> Regardless, I never had a problem with Beastie.  I like him.  He is
> the only mascot/logo/whatever associated with an OS (other than the
> window) that is actually relevant.

It's cute, but it has never had any effect on my attitude towards
FreeBSD.  The only thing that influences me is the software (and, to a
lesser extent, the attitudes of the people who produce it).

-- 
Anthony


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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Dag-Erling Smørgrav writes:

> Tux is a mascot, not a logo.  These are Linux logos:
>
> http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topiccaldera.gif
> http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicdebian.gif
> http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicmandrake.gif
> http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicredhat.gif
> http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicsuse.gif
> http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicturbolinux.gif

I like Red Hat the best, and SuSE is the worst, IMO.

> The image that is sometimes used as an all-round Linux logo is not
> "just Tux", but rather a particular representation of Tux in
> combination with a logotype and an orange splash.  The author of that
> logo is clearly aware of the distinction between a logo and a mascot:
>
> http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/logo/

These are too complex to be used as logos.

> Here's a page (a NetBSD logo contest entry) which addresses many of
> these concerns, and coincidentally underlines my point about the
> daemon not being exclusive to FreeBSD:
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/codesamurai/netbsd-logo-entry/

Technically very clean, but too cute.

> (this is so good I'm surprised NetBSD didn't adopt it, and I'd love to
> see it submitted to the FreeBSD logo contest)

Eeuh, no.  Too cute.  It's important to avoid anything that looks like a
cartoon.

The logo displayed on the NetBSD site is a zillion times better.

-- 
Anthony


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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Napper writes:

> Its been my experience that the corporate suits get the
> perception of "teenage hacker" from the cartoonish mascots.

Agreed.  And their perception is not always incorrect.

-- 
Anthony


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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Frank Laszlo]

Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Dag-Erling Smørgrav writes:
 

Tux is a mascot, not a logo.  These are Linux logos:
http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topiccaldera.gif
http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicdebian.gif
http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicmandrake.gif
http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicredhat.gif
http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicsuse.gif
http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicturbolinux.gif
   

I like Red Hat the best, and SuSE is the worst, IMO.
 

Are we forgetting about the printing aspect of things? The redhat logo 
has some nice gradients in it.

The image that is sometimes used as an all-round Linux logo is not
"just Tux", but rather a particular representation of Tux in
combination with a logotype and an orange splash.  The author of that
logo is clearly aware of the distinction between a logo and a mascot:
http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/logo/
   

These are too complex to be used as logos.
 

And they just plain suck, IMHO.
 

Here's a page (a NetBSD logo contest entry) which addresses many of
these concerns, and coincidentally underlines my point about the
daemon not being exclusive to FreeBSD:
http://homepage.mac.com/codesamurai/netbsd-logo-entry/
   

Technically very clean, but too cute.
 

Riddled with opinions! :)
 

(this is so good I'm surprised NetBSD didn't adopt it, and I'd love to
see it submitted to the FreeBSD logo contest)
   

Eeuh, no.  Too cute.  It's important to avoid anything that looks like a
cartoon.
The logo displayed on the NetBSD site is a zillion times better.
 

More opinions!! jesus, does everyone have one of these? :)
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Re: (mySQL) benchmarks strike back

[Ean Kingston]

> Hi there
>
> I just read
> http://software.newsforge.com/software/04/12/27/1243207.shtml?tid=72&tid=29%20result
> and as in any onther benchmark there is a lot stuff
> that
> can be arguable. I would like to know why is that
> happening?
> the problem is that "we" are pushing
> FreeBSD/postgreSQL as a database solution, and I am
> the guy to blame to, because I  was the one who did
> advocacy for FreeBSD, so I'm sure my boss is going to
> ask me.  And you told us to use FreeBSD instead of
> Linux?
> and I do not want to answer him "beastie is way more
> cool"
>
> I'm doing my own research but some help from here
> would be nice!!!

Others will provide plenty of reasoning for you. Here are some points for
consideration.

That particulary example used a very small database that was cached
entirely in memory. It has no resemblance to a production environment
where databases are always going to be disk-io bound, not cpu-bound (as
was the benchmark).

Linux mounts its filesystems in async mode by default. This is extremely
unsafe and will almost guarantee data loss on a buisy filesystem if the
computer loses power unexpectedly. FreeBSD with softupdate will give much
better performance than Linux with the filsystems mounted syncronously and
you don't risk the data loss if the power fails.

That was a performance test for MySQL. You are using Postgres. These are
different databases. Postgres is a much better choice. It is a much more
complete database server. For example, last time I checked, there was
absolutely no integrity checking in MySQL whereas Postgres does have very
good integrity checking.

The performance metrics from that article were more a test of the current
state of threading than any realistic database system. At the moment, the
newest Linux kernels have much faster threading than FreeBSD. This will
probably change (many times) in the future. The BSDs and Linux go through
cycles of beating eachother in different areas depending on where the
projects are focused at the time.

I, and many others, have found that Linux tends to focus on getting the
next new feature into their systems as quickly as possible. This, I find,
makes for a much less stable system. I have found that the BSDs are much
better at controlling this featurism. The project teams consider the value
of something before they implement it in the production release. The
result is, to me, that you get a much more reliable OS out of FreeBSD than
you do out of Linux.

Your choices of Postgres and FreeBSD indicate that you are looking for
reliability in your database system. For that goal, I think you made the
right choice.

> Jorge Mario Mazo

-- 
Ean Kingston

E-Mail: ean_AT_hedron_DOT_org
URL: http://www.hedron.org/

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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Bart Silverstrim]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 12:17 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Napper writes:
Its been my experience that the corporate suits get the
perception of "teenage hacker" from the cartoonish mascots.
Agreed.  And their perception is not always incorrect.
Am I the only one that finds some amusement in the reference to 
"corporate suits" then being followed up with a comment about 
perception of a stereotype? :-)

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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Frank Laszlo writes:

> Are we forgetting about the printing aspect of things? The redhat logo
> has some nice gradients in it.

The GIF I'm looking at seems to contain only red and black, except for
the drop shadow, which isn't part of the logo.

> And they just plain suck, IMHO.

They look too puerile for my tastes.  But that goes pretty well with
Linux.

> More opinions!! jesus, does everyone have one of these?

I have lots of them.

-- 
Anthony


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Re: New FreeBSD logo and website design

[Chris Zumbrunn]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 5:58 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Nice.  It still has that devilish look to it, which might cause a
problem politically, but at least it's clean and simple and easy to
print.
:-)  Generally, in the discussion so far, almost everybody jumped 
through the hoops to emphasize that the need for a new logo is based on 
the need for a clean professional look and printability (scaling and 
cost due to colors) - and not about the political correctness.

The fine details on Beastie might be a problem at very small
sizes.  (It has occurred to me that a logo using only part of Beastie
might be able to get around the small-detail problem.)
I redid our beloved beastie in a simplified way that eliminates this 
problem sufficiently. Take a look at the following example which is 
reduced to just 28x42 pixels!  And this is on screen! - when printing, 
it is possible to go even smaller with this design without any trouble. 
No need to drop beastie as the freebsd logo for this reason:

http://top.ch/sitedata/freebsd/minibeastie.gif
Chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  +41 329 41 41 41
Chris Zumbrunn Ventures - http://www.czv.com/
Internet Application Technology - Reduced to the Maximum
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Andrew L. Gould]

On Friday 11 February 2005 08:14 am, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > Imagine Linux dropping Tux for some meanlingless, lifeless logo?
>
> I'm glad you asked.
>
> Tux is a mascot, not a logo.  These are Linux logos:
>
> http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topiccaldera.gif
> http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicdebian.gif
> http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicmandrake.gif
> http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicredhat.gif
> http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicsuse.gif
> http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicturbolinux.gif
>

>
> DES

No Slackware?  In my opinion, Slackware has the widest deviation in 
professionalism between their logo and mascot. 

logo(s):
http://slackware.com/grfx/shared/logo.png
http://store.slackware.com/images/nav/s_topleft.png

mascot (pipe-smoking penguin):
http://store.slackware.com/cgi-bin/store/slacklapel?id=E844B2UK:mv_pc=379

They also have a "When you get serious" Slackware t-shirt that I like.  
I wish I had thought of that for FreeBSD.
http://store.slackware.com/cgi-bin/store/serious?id=E844B2UK:mv_pc=426

Andrew Gould
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Re: (mySQL) benchmarks strike back

[Andrew L. Gould]

On Friday 11 February 2005 10:46 am, Jorge Mario G. wrote:
> Hi there
>
> I just read
> http://software.newsforge.com/software/04/12/27/1243207.shtml?tid=72&;
>tid=29%20result and as in any onther benchmark there is a lot stuff
> that
> can be arguable. I would like to know why is that
> happening?
> the problem is that "we" are pushing
> FreeBSD/postgreSQL as a database solution, and I am
> the guy to blame to, because I  was the one who did
> advocacy for FreeBSD, so I'm sure my boss is going to
> ask me.  And you told us to use FreeBSD instead of
> Linux?
> and I do not want to answer him "beastie is way more
> cool"
>
> I'm doing my own research but some help from here
> would be nice!!!
>
>
> Jorge Mario Mazo
>

Interesting article; but how does it relate to the real world.  I'm not 
saying that the benchmarks aren't valid.  Perhaps Linux has gained 
advantages in performance over FreeBSD -- I don't know, I'm not 
qualified to say.  Regardless, benchmark test results should not be the 
only criteria for selecting an operating system.  Be wary of anyone who 
tells you otherwise.

1. YMMV (Your mileage may vary.)  I've seen benchmarks that favor Linux 
before; but when I've tested Linux using complex queries with large 
databases, the system slowed much more noticeably than with FreeBSD.  
This is based upon my perceptions rather than benchmarks; but it 
reflects the system's effect upon my productivity, which is very real.  
Linux may have improved since then; but it demonstrates that benchmark 
tests do not always reflect what happens outside of the laboratory.  
You should run comparisons using activities that reflect your computing 
needs.

2.  Security -- See the link below.  (beware of wordwrap)
http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/frameset.php?pageid=http%3A//www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/press/021104.php

3.  Usability -- FreeBSD differs from Linux in many ways.  For me, the 
file system hierarchy and the way the operating system works makes more 
sense to me.  FreeBSD was easier for me to learn and to use.

4.  The Linux distro used was Gentoo, which promotes system 
optimizations.  For example: Whereas most distributions install a 
generic kernel, the Gentoo installation defaults to compiling a new 
kernel that is customized to the hardware.  Did the testers perform 
similar steps with other operating systems?  Also, opinions as to 
whether Gentoo is suitable for a production server are polarized.  
Linux gamers tend to say "yes".  More conservative users often say, 
"no".  Running the benchmarks using SUSE Professional, Slackware or 
Debian (or others) would have provided more comfort to business users.

5. Is MySQL different from PostgreSQL in ways that should affect the 
relevance of the benchmark tests to your situation?  (See item #1.)

Best of luck,

Andrew Gould
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traceroute/udp issue

[Chris Johnson]

My laptop can not seem to traceroute using nat. I am running ipnat on 
4.11-stable (code is new as of today) My router is running the same. I cant 
seem to traceroute using udp, if i -P icmp it will work fine. I have no ipfw 
rules blocking this and have tried with 0 firewall rules and still got nothing. 
Below is a few outputs from tcpdump and my ipnat.rules. Thanks


I ran a traceroute to google.com from my laptop, below are the outputs of 
tcpdump -i  udp from while the trace was running.
Also note that i have net.inet.ip.stealth enabled so you wont see the first hop 
from my laptop to my router. But i have tried disabling this and it does not 
make a difference. Also i can traceroute fine from the router itself and from 
another box behind the router. Also i wanted to add that the laptop also has a 
public ip address along with ipv6 and when i -s public_addy i can trace fine. 
The router itself also runs zebra/bgpd.

The Traceroute 

traceroute to google.com (216.239.57.99), 64 hops max, 44 byte packets
 1  * * *
 2  * * *
 3  * * *
 4  * *^C



Laptop during traceroute

tcpdump: listening on ed1
13:12:06.536437 1.10.8.2.33566 > 216.239.39.99.33439: udp 16
13:12:06.958107 bleh.wacky.ws.2195 > ns1.wacky.ws.domain:  28002+ PTR? 
99.39.239.216.inaddr.arpa. (44)
13:12:07.065390 ns1.wacky.ws.domain > bleh.wacky.ws.2195:  28002 NXDomain 0/1/0 
(104)
13:12:07.066478 bleh.wacky.ws.3651 > ns1.wacky.ws.domain:  28003+ PTR? 
2.8.10.1.in-addr.arpa. (39)
13:12:07.067610 ns1.wacky.ws.domain > bleh.wacky.ws.3651:  28003 NXDomain 0/1/0 
(103)
13:12:08.066818 bleh.wacky.ws.3495 > ns1.wacky.ws.domain:  28004+ PTR? 
11.97.130.67.in-addr.arpa. (43)
13:12:08.068268 ns1.wacky.ws.domain > bleh.wacky.ws.3495:  28004 1/2/2 (145)
13:12:08.068920 bleh.wacky.ws.3673 > ns1.wacky.ws.domain:  28005+ PTR? 
10.97.130.67.in-addr.arpa. (43)
13:12:08.070104 ns1.wacky.ws.domain > bleh.wacky.ws.3673:  28005 1/2/2 (149)
13:12:11.546509 1.10.8.2.33566 > 216.239.39.99.33440: udp 16

Router during traceroute


tcpdump: listening on rl0
13:14:49.078748 ma-rockland-cuda1h-204.albyny.adelphia.net.33568 > 
216.239.39.99.33439: udp 16 [ttl 1]
13:14:49.159051 ma-rockland-cuda1h-204.albyny.adelphia.net.1282 > 
nscache1.albyny.adelphia.net.domain:  60589+ PTR? 99.39.239.216.in-addr.arpa. 
(44)
13:14:49.235372 nscache1.albyny.adelphia.net.domain > 
ma-rockland-cuda1h-204.albyny.adelphia.net.1282:  60589 NXDomain 0/1/0 (104) 
(DF)
13:14:49.235751 ma-rockland-cuda1h-204.albyny.adelphia.net.4579 > 
nscache1.albyny.adelphia.net.domain:  60590+ PTR? 201.103.164.69.in-addr.arpa. 
(45)
13:14:49.255934 nscache1.albyny.adelphia.net.domain > 
ma-rockland-cuda1h-204.albyny.adelphia.net.4579:  60590 1/3/3 (203) (DF)
13:14:50.256171 ma-rockland-cuda1h-204.albyny.adelphia.net.4785 > 
nscache1.albyny.adelphia.net.domain:  60591+ PTR? 2.96.168.68.in-addr.arpa. (42)
13:14:50.278134 nscache1.albyny.adelphia.net.domain > 
ma-rockland-cuda1h-204.albyny.adelphia.net.4785:  60591 1/3/3 PTR[|domain] (DF)
13:14:54.086174 ma-rockland-cuda1h-204.albyny.adelphia.net.33568 > 
216.239.39.99.33440: udp 16 [ttl 1]



ifconfig output oflaptop

ed1: flags=8843 mtu 1500
inet 1.10.8.2 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 1.10.8.255
inet6 fe80::204:5aff:fea1:f7cf%ed1 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x6 
inet6 2001:x:x::x prefixlen 48 
inet x.x.x.x netmask 0xff00 broadcast 67.255.255.255
ether 00:04:5a:a1:f7:cf
media: Ethernet autoselect (100baseTX )
status: active


ipnat.rules from the router

map rl0 1.10.8.0/24 -> 0.0.0.0/32

Thank you
-- 
Christopher Johnson - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Newbie upgrade problem

[aklist_061666]

Hi: I upgraded from freebsd 5.1 to 5.3, and the upgrade went pretty 
smoothly.

I had BIND 9.2.3 running on 5.1, and when I upgraded to 5.3, BIND 9.3.0 was 
installed.

my old named.conf file is still in /etc, but 9.3.0 doesn't seem to be 
reading it.

I tried restarting bind with /usr/sbin/named -4 -c /etc/named.conf
and it loaded, but for each file in etc/named.conf I received an error:
Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: starting BIND 9.3.0 -4 -c /etc/named.conf
Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: could not listen on UDP socket: address in 
use
Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: creating IPv4 interface xl0 failed; 
interface ig
nored
Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: could not listen on UDP socket: address in 
use
Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: creating IPv4 interface lo0 failed; 
interface ig
nored
Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: not listening on any interfaces
Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: command channel listening on 0.0.0.0#953
Feb 11 12:54:10 ns2 named[596]: client 192.168.1.40#59629: received notify 
for z
one 'climateiseverything.com': not authoritative

...[lots of zones have that error
Feb 11 13:35:05 ns2 named[278]: zone 
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0
.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.IP6.ARPA/IN: loading master file 
master/localhost-v6.rev: f
ile not found
Feb 11 13:35:05 ns2 named[278]: zone 
1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0
.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.IP6.INT/IN: loading master file 
master/localhost-v6.rev: fi
le not found

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Virus question

[Karen Donathan]

To Whom it may concern:
My name is Karen Donathan and I am a computer science teacher at George 
Washington High School in Charleston, WV.  We run our website 
(http://gwhs.kana.k12.wv.us) on a FreeBSD server.  This project was given 
to me, and I am afraid that I really should know more about how this 
works.

My question is as follows:  How can I run a virus scan on my system?  What 
scan do you recommend?

The reason I am asking this question is that our school system 
administrator just found that there were some files infected with Klez.h 
in the webroot directory of our server.  He found this out as he 
downloaded some files from this directory to our Windows-XP school server, 
and Norton flagged it right away.

Any suggestions?
Thank you,
Karen Donathan
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Re: Newbie upgrade problem

[Hexren]

a> Hi: I upgraded from freebsd 5.1 to 5.3, and the upgrade went pretty 
a> smoothly.

a> I had BIND 9.2.3 running on 5.1, and when I upgraded to 5.3, BIND 9.3.0 was 
a> installed.

a> my old named.conf file is still in /etc, but 9.3.0 doesn't seem to be 
a> reading it.

a> I tried restarting bind with /usr/sbin/named -4 -c /etc/named.conf

a> and it loaded, but for each file in etc/named.conf I received an error:

a> Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: starting BIND 9.3.0 -4 -c /etc/named.conf
a> Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: could not listen on UDP socket: address in 
a> use
a> Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: creating IPv4 interface xl0 failed; 
a> interface ig
a> nored
a> Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: could not listen on UDP socket: address in 
a> use
a> Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: creating IPv4 interface lo0 failed; 
a> interface ig
a> nored
a> Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: not listening on any interfaces
a> Feb 11 12:54:09 ns2 named[661]: command channel listening on 0.0.0.0#953
a> Feb 11 12:54:10 ns2 named[596]: client 192.168.1.40#59629: received notify 
a> for z
a> one 'climateiseverything.com': not authoritative

a> ...[lots of zones have that error

a> Feb 11 13:35:05 ns2 named[278]: zone 
a> 1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0
a> .0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.IP6.ARPA/IN: loading master file 
a> master/localhost-v6.rev: f
a> ile not found
a> Feb 11 13:35:05 ns2 named[278]: zone 
a> 1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0
a> .0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.IP6.INT/IN: loading master file 
a> master/localhost-v6.rev: fi
a> le not found


a> ___
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a> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
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-

I am really not that big in BIND but before you start BIND have you
checked if port 53 is already in use as "could not listen on UDP
socket: address in use" seems to imply that.

Hexren

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Re: Virus question

[Bart Silverstrim]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 1:55 PM, Karen Donathan wrote:
To Whom it may concern:
My name is Karen Donathan and I am a computer science teacher at 
George Washington High School in Charleston, WV.  We run our website 
(http://gwhs.kana.k12.wv.us) on a FreeBSD server.  This project was 
given to me, and I am afraid that I really should know more about how 
this works.

My question is as follows:  How can I run a virus scan on my system?  
What scan do you recommend?

The reason I am asking this question is that our school system 
administrator just found that there were some files infected with 
Klez.h in the webroot directory of our server.  He found this out as 
he downloaded some files from this directory to our Windows-XP school 
server, and Norton flagged it right away.

Any suggestions?
The FreeBSD server itself is immune to that virus.  I'd look at the 
files and ask how they got there (who put them there).

Second, personally I'd recommend you go into the ports tree and install 
ClamAV.  Then you can run Clamscan and that will flag which files are 
"infected".  Then you can go through and delete them or quarantine 
them.

-Bart
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re: Newbie upgrade problem

[Joachim Dagerot]

>Hi: I upgraded from freebsd 5.1 to 5.3, and the upgrade went pretty smoothly.

May I ask if you had any guide that you followed nad if you please could post a 
link to it here.

I'm just about to upgrade my system from 5.1 to the latest, but I don't know 
where to start, and I haven't got any answers when asking on this list.

Kind regards,
Joachim



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Re: Newbie upgrade problem

[Lowell Gilbert]

"Joachim Dagerot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> 
> May I ask if you had any guide that you followed nad if you please could post 
> a link to it here.
> 
> I'm just about to upgrade my system from 5.1 to the latest, but I don't know 
> where to start, and I haven't got any answers when asking on this list.

Hey; give it at least 24 hours for people to respond.

The directions for upgrading are part of the FreeBSD Handbook.
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/cutting-edge.html
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Newbie: where is the startup configuration line for BIND?

[aklist_061666]

Hi All:
I just upgraded from freebsd 5.1 to 5.3, and I want to edit the startup 
parameters for named so that it reads my previous config file, basically I 
want the startup parameter to be:

/usr/sbin/named -4 -c /etc/named.conf
But I can't find where that command string is?
all that is in my /etc/rc.conf is "named_enable="YES" "
I have another file called /etc/rc.conf~ which has the line:
"named_program="/urs/sbin/named" "
But is that file a backup file or is it actually used?
Or do I just need to modify that line with the parameters I want it to start 
up with?

Thanks! 

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Re: Newbie: where is the startup configuration line for BIND?

[Frank Laszlo]

aklist_061666 wrote:
Hi All:
I just upgraded from freebsd 5.1 to 5.3, and I want to edit the 
startup parameters for named so that it reads my previous config file, 
basically I want the startup parameter to be:

/usr/sbin/named -4 -c /etc/named.conf
But I can't find where that command string is?
all that is in my /etc/rc.conf is "named_enable="YES" "
I have another file called /etc/rc.conf~ which has the line:
"named_program="/urs/sbin/named" "
But is that file a backup file or is it actually used?
Or do I just need to modify that line with the parameters I want it to 
start up with?

Thanks!
(14:36:08) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]% grep named /etc/defaults/rc.conf
<..snip..>
named_enable="NO"   # Run named, the DNS server (or NO).
named_program="/usr/sbin/named" # path to named, if you want a different 
one.
named_flags="-u bind"   # Flags for named
<..snip..>

Add the approapriote lines to /etc/rc.conf and you're all set. DO NOT, I 
repeat, DO NOT EDIT /etc/defaults/rc.conf. put overrides for it in 
/etc/rc.conf.

__
Frank Laszlo
System Administrator
The VonOstin Group
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW:http://www.vonostingroup.com
Mobile: 248-863-7584
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Re: Virus question

[Louis LeBlanc]

On 02/11/05 01:55 PM, Karen Donathan sat at the `puter and typed:
> To Whom it may concern:
> 
> My name is Karen Donathan and I am a computer science teacher at
> George Washington High School in Charleston, WV.  We run our website
> (http://gwhs.kana.k12.wv.us) on a FreeBSD server.  This project was
> given to me, and I am afraid that I really should know more about
> how this works.
> 
> My question is as follows:  How can I run a virus scan on my system?
> What scan do you recommend?
> 
> The reason I am asking this question is that our school system
> administrator just found that there were some files infected with
> Klez.h in the webroot directory of our server.  He found this out as
> he downloaded some files from this directory to our Windows-XP
> school server, and Norton flagged it right away.

I was doing the same thing last night at 11:30.  Norton flagged over
100 instances of Klez on my sister-in-laws business computer.  There
were at least a dozen others, including a keylogger, backdoor, and at
least 8 other trojans, but Klez was definitely the most proliferated.
Fun, ain't it?

> Any suggestions?

As suggested by another poster, Clam-AV.  I use it and it catches all
kinds of nasties.  There is also f-prot, which you can set up as a
backup scanner through Amavisd-new.

I use Amavisd-new with postfix as my SMTP server, but if you're using
Sendmail, there may be other options you want to check out.  Start
with the handbook:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html
particularly chapter 4, if you're not familiar with the ports, and
chapter 22 to get a good overview of the options involving email.

Good luck

Lou
-- 
Louis LeBlanc  FreeBSD-at-keyslapper-DOT-net
Fully Funded Hobbyist,   KeySlapper Extrordinaire :)
Please send off-list email to: leblanc at keyslapper d.t net
Key fingerprint = C5E7 4762 F071 CE3B ED51  4FB8 AF85 A2FE 80C8 D9A2

Corry's Law:
  Paper is always strongest at the perforations.


pgpJZR4aMVG50.pgp
Description: PGP signature

How do I set the source address on a multi-homed host?

[Daniela]

I have two NICs (one inside and one outside interface) with NAT activated. The 
problem is that every time I establish a connection with a machine on my LAN, 
it uses the address of the outside interface as the source of the packets, 
which creates problems with my firewall. How do I tell my machine to use the 
other address whenever I connect to a local machine?

Daniela

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/tmp on same partition as /

[Chad Morland]

I'm setting up a mail server at the momment, one of the things that I
forgot to do was create /tmp as a separate partiton (/ = 2gb).  There
will be no user logins to the machine aside from admins and the only
thing that it will run is qmail acting as a smarthost (vanilla qmail,
no amavis or anything of the sort.)

In your opinion is having /tmp on the same partition as / really THAT
bad in this case? I'm just wondering cause some people have mentioned
that its a major security risk. Really, I don't think it is for what
this box is doing.

-CM
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Newbie: BIND conf "file not found" error

[aklist_061666]

One last question on configuring Named to run:
I'm able to start BIND from the command line with:
/usr/sbin/named -c /etc/named.conf
but when I modify my rc.conf file with:
named_enable="YES"
named_program="/usr/sbin/named"
named_flags="-u bind -c /etc/named.conf"
I get an error on startup:
Feb 11 14:47:53 ns2 named[275]: none:0 open: /etc/named.conf: file not found
Feb 11 14:47:53 ns2 named[275]: loading configruation: file not found
Feb 11 14:47:53 ns2 named[275]: exiting (due to fatal error)
what's wrong with my config-file path parameter in rc.conf?
Thanks! 

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5.3-RELEASE: Where is the blacklist referenced on the install disks?

[Atle Veka]

ASUS p2b-d motherboards are blacklisted on 5.3-RELEASE and refuse to
install. Where is this blacklist located, I need to manually remove that
block?

The ASUS p2b-d motherboards are quite common, we have probably 100 or so
left of them and have at one point had over 400. Seems really strange to
me to exclude a popular motherboard on acpi issues...


Thanks,

Atle
-
Flying Crocodile Inc, Unix Systems Administrator
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Re: /tmp on same partition as /

[Tom Trelvik]

Chad Morland wrote:
In your opinion is having /tmp on the same partition as / really THAT
bad in this case? I'm just wondering cause some people have mentioned
that its a major security risk. Really, I don't think it is for what
this box is doing.
	It's obviously a much bigger security risk on a multiuser machine, but 
even without that being the case, I'm assuming the machine will be 
providing some sort of network service?  Then it can still be a risk 
worth taking into account.

	One or more network services may be making use of /tmp, and if so an 
unauthenticated external user could plausibly find ways to make those 
services max out their usage of /tmp, possibly filling your root 
partition in the process.

	Even without worrying at all about malicious intent, /tmp on / makes it 
very easily to *accidentally* fill your root partition, but'll still be 
a pain for you to have to deal with it if that happens.

	More seriously, a vulnerability could be found in one of those services 
that could depend on files in /tmp being executable (which should never 
be true).  With a separate /tmp partition, you can easily have it 
mounted with the noexec option for an added layer of security, so that 
even if they create a malicious executable in /tmp, they won't be able 
to execute it without moving it to another file system, which would 
probably require they already have shell access, defeating the purpose.

Tom
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Re: Virus question

[Ean Kingston]

> On 02/11/05 01:55 PM, Karen Donathan sat at the `puter and typed:
>> To Whom it may concern:
>>
>> My name is Karen Donathan and I am a computer science teacher at
>> George Washington High School in Charleston, WV.  We run our website
>> (http://gwhs.kana.k12.wv.us) on a FreeBSD server.  This project was
>> given to me, and I am afraid that I really should know more about
>> how this works.
>>
>> My question is as follows:  How can I run a virus scan on my system?
>> What scan do you recommend?

f-prot makes a virus scanner for FreeBSD.

http://www.f-prot.com/products/corporate_users/unix/


>> The reason I am asking this question is that our school system
>> administrator just found that there were some files infected with
>> Klez.h in the webroot directory of our server.

Do you know how the virus got into the webroot of your server? You should
find out.

>>  He found this out as
>> he downloaded some files from this directory to our Windows-XP
>> school server, and Norton flagged it right away.
>
> I was doing the same thing last night at 11:30.  Norton flagged over
> 100 instances of Klez on my sister-in-laws business computer.  There
> were at least a dozen others, including a keylogger, backdoor, and at
> least 8 other trojans, but Klez was definitely the most proliferated.
> Fun, ain't it?
>
>> Any suggestions?
>
> As suggested by another poster, Clam-AV.  I use it and it catches all
> kinds of nasties.  There is also f-prot, which you can set up as a
> backup scanner through Amavisd-new.
>
> I use Amavisd-new with postfix as my SMTP server, but if you're using
> Sendmail, there may be other options you want to check out.  Start
> with the handbook:
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html
> particularly chapter 4, if you're not familiar with the ports, and
> chapter 22 to get a good overview of the options involving email.
>
> Good luck
>
> Lou
> --
> Louis LeBlanc  FreeBSD-at-keyslapper-DOT-net
> Fully Funded Hobbyist,   KeySlapper Extrordinaire :)
> Please send off-list email to: leblanc at keyslapper d.t net
> Key fingerprint = C5E7 4762 F071 CE3B ED51  4FB8 AF85 A2FE 80C8 D9A2
>
> Corry's Law:
>   Paper is always strongest at the perforations.
>


-- 
Ean Kingston

E-Mail: ean_AT_hedron_DOT_org
URL: http://www.hedron.org/

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Re: /tmp on same partition as /

[Jerry McAllister]

> 
> I'm setting up a mail server at the momment, one of the things that I
> forgot to do was create /tmp as a separate partiton (/ = 2gb).  There
> will be no user logins to the machine aside from admins and the only
> thing that it will run is qmail acting as a smarthost (vanilla qmail,
> no amavis or anything of the sort.)
> 
> In your opinion is having /tmp on the same partition as / really THAT
> bad in this case? I'm just wondering cause some people have mentioned
> that its a major security risk. Really, I don't think it is for what
> this box is doing.

I suppose it could have some security implications, but it is not so much 
a security risk as a potential functional problem.  It is possible for 
something to begin writing an unexpectedly large amount of stuff to /tmp.  
If it is a separate file system, then that process will die or at least 
get stuck waiting when /tmp fills up.   It could also affect any other 
processes trying to use /tmp for scratch space too.  But, if you catch 
it reasonably soon, you can usuall just go in a nuke some unnecessary 
files and it will clean up OK.

But, if it is in  the root file system that means that root will get 
filled up.   That makes it much more likely that the system will come 
to a grinding halt and be harder, probably impossible,  to clean things
up without taking the system down and mucking around in single user.

jerry

> 
> -CM
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ye ol xargs unterminated quote error, thought it was gone?

[Ken Hawkins]

when I use the usual:
find . -type f -print | xargs grep -sl foobar
i get;
xargs unterminated quote error and have to use:
find . -type f -print | sed 's/^\(.*\)$//'\1'/' | xargs grep -sl foobar
to quote the output from find. anyone know a more elegant solution?
thoughts?
ken;
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Re: is there a cheat-sheet for WINE?

[Ben Dover]

I added the following to the top of my wine config file and the
stoppable errors went away.

[Drive C]
"Path" = "/windows"
"Type" = "hd"
"Label" = "msdos"
"Filesystem" = "win98"


Note that "Path" = "/windows"  is the directory i created to mount the
windows partition in /etc/fstab
Good luck


On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:26:35 -0800, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 12:58:31AM +0100, albi wrote:
> > Gary Kline wrote:
> >
> > > The sh tools/wineinstall did an incomplete job.  I have
> > > ~/.wine/config i nstalled, but I'm missing something because
> > > runnning wine or wine --help yields:
> > >
> > >
> > >fixme:file:get_default_drive_device auto detection of DOS devices not
> > >supported on this platform
> > >Warning: the specified Windows directory L"c:\\windows" is not
> > >accessible.
> >
> > a few weeks ago i tried wine (and linux-winetools) from the ports in
> > 5.3 and it worked pretty well (testing filezilla for windows-users)
> >
> > in linux there's usually the winesetup tool, but this was (not available
> > and) not needed at all
> >
> > i would install wine from ports and do a rm -rf ~/.wine and try again
> >
> 
> Still no luck.  The WINE website is aimed toward Linux
> and as far as I can tell, the OnLamp article no longer
> applies.  Anybody else?
> 
> gary
> 
> --
>Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED]   www.thought.org Public service Unix
> 
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Garance A Drosihn]

At 8:00 AM -0500 2/11/05, Bart Silverstrim wrote:
Just to sum up things as I understand it...
People want to change the logo from Beastie to something else
because Beastie isn't professional enough, so some committers
decided to hold a contest for a new logo?
We thought it would be nice, after fifteen years, to see if our
much-larger user base has any interesting ideas for a new logo.
We thought it would be nice to reward people with a minor
amount of money as a prize.
Out of curiosity, is Beastie so terrible, a logo, that a business
would be stupid enough to base their server decisions based on it?
Businesses are stupid.  People who demand dedicated allegiance to
one single cartoon image are just as stupid.  Both are facts, and
neither is a late-breaking news item.
Someone said people change logos all the time.  That's flat out
wrong.  When a company spends mucho dinero on marketing their
logo, they don't just flip around and decide to change their
logo that they spent so much money and time getting mindshare
with.  Have any examples of logos that have constantly changed?
We do constantly see companies change their logo.  That is not the
same thing as saying any *one* company is constantly changing *its*
logo.  Apple has changed its logo.  AT&T changed its logo several
times.  GE recently changed its one-line motto.  At one point,
McDonalds rebuilt every one of their stores from the old
"golden-arches" look to the newer "family restaurant" look -- and
that cost a hell of a lot more than any logo change.
Right now we're working with an image that was picked 15 years ago
for a very small open-source project.  We now claim to be several
orders of magnitude larger than that.  I doubt there is *any*
company who has stuck with it's original logo as it went from
"five guys running a hobby" to "millions of users".
Since when did FreeBSD, a project always driven by volunteers and
not by commercial matters, suddenly gain a marketing department
that is trying to steer FreeBSD into the business sector?  Is
FreeBSD starting to have marketing dictate technology instead of
technology dictate marketing?
Some of those volunteers would like to see a new logo.  Others
would not.  The vast majority probably do not care at all.  Somehow
the ones who like the present logo seem to think they can simply
dismiss all comments from the other volunteers who would like a
new logo, as if the work done by THOSE volunteers is somehow
irrelevant.
--
Garance Alistair Drosehn=   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Senior Systems Programmer   or  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rensselaer Polytechnic Instituteor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: ye ol xargs unterminated quote error, thought it was gone?

[Lars Kristiansen]

> when I use the usual:
>
> find . -type f -print | xargs grep -sl foobar

Have you tried:
find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -sl foobar

>
> i get;
>
> xargs unterminated quote error and have to use:
>
> find . -type f -print | sed 's/^\(.*\)$//'\1'/' | xargs grep -sl foobar
>
> to quote the output from find. anyone know a more elegant solution?
>
> thoughts?
>
> ken;
>
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Re: 5.3-RELEASE: Where is the blacklist referenced on the install disks?

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Feb 11), Atle Veka said:
> ASUS p2b-d motherboards are blacklisted on 5.3-RELEASE and refuse to
> install. Where is this blacklist located, I need to manually remove
> that block?
> 
> The ASUS p2b-d motherboards are quite common, we have probably 100 or
> so left of them and have at one point had over 400. Seems really
> strange to me to exclude a popular motherboard on acpi issues...

The blacklist is on BIOS versions that have broken ACPI support.  All
it does it disable the ACPI module.  Your system should still boot
fine without it.

-- 
Dan Nelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: 5.3-RELEASE: Where is the blacklist referenced on the install disks?

[Atle Veka]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005, Dan Nelson wrote:

> In the last episode (Feb 11), Atle Veka said:
> > ASUS p2b-d motherboards are blacklisted on 5.3-RELEASE and refuse to
> > install. Where is this blacklist located, I need to manually remove
> > that block?
> >
> > The ASUS p2b-d motherboards are quite common, we have probably 100 or
> > so left of them and have at one point had over 400. Seems really
> > strange to me to exclude a popular motherboard on acpi issues...
>
> The blacklist is on BIOS versions that have broken ACPI support.  All
> it does it disable the ACPI module.  Your system should still boot
> fine without it.

This is during a new install and after loading all floppies it actually
halts the boot process and notifies of an automatic reboot [in 15
seconds].


Atle
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Re: 5.3-RELEASE: Where is the blacklist referenced on the install disks?

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Feb 11), Atle Veka said:
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2005, Dan Nelson wrote:
> > In the last episode (Feb 11), Atle Veka said:
> > > ASUS p2b-d motherboards are blacklisted on 5.3-RELEASE and refuse
> > > to install. Where is this blacklist located, I need to manually
> > > remove that block?
> > >
> > > The ASUS p2b-d motherboards are quite common, we have probably
> > > 100 or so left of them and have at one point had over 400. Seems
> > > really strange to me to exclude a popular motherboard on acpi
> > > issues...
> >
> > The blacklist is on BIOS versions that have broken ACPI support. 
> > All it does it disable the ACPI module.  Your system should still
> > boot fine without it.
> 
> This is during a new install and after loading all floppies it
> actually halts the boot process and notifies of an automatic reboot
> [in 15 seconds].

Paste in the few lines before the automatic reboot message.   You can
also force the acpi module to load even if it was blacklisted by
entering

set hint.acpi.0.disabled=0

at the loader prompt before the kernel boots.

-- 
Dan Nelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 6:00 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote:
Since when did FreeBSD, a project always driven by volunteers and not 
by commercial matters, suddenly gain a marketing department that is 
trying to steer FreeBSD into the business sector?  Is FreeBSD starting 
to have marketing dictate technology instead of technology dictate 
marketing?
Sorry, but this does not make sense.
FreeBSD is driven by commercial matters.  Many of the people that work 
on it are paid to work on it by their employers, who are using it 
commercially.   FreeBSD will wither away if it does not continue to 
receive extensive commercial support like Linux gets.

When is a logo "technology"?  No one is talking about a logo steering 
technology or technology steering a logo.  The sentence "FreeBSD 
starting to have marketing dictate technology instead of technology 
dictate marketing?" is irrelevant to this discussion.

You can have the best technology in the world, but if no one uses it, 
who cares?

Chad
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Robert Marella]

On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 08:00 -0500, Bart Silverstrim wrote:

> 
> Someone said people change logos all the time.  That's flat out wrong.  
> When a company spends mucho dinero on marketing their logo, they don't 
> just flip around and decide to change their logo that they spent so 
> much money and time getting mindshare with.  Have any examples of logos 
> that have constantly changed?
> 
http://www.bellsystemmemorial.com/bell_logos.html



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Re: /tmp on same partition as /

[Oliver Leitner]

well, its ok to have /tmp on the same partition as /, as long as other 
security measurements work, for example a tripwire setup and logging user 
actions of any kind, also having an overview over the logs.

as long as these work, and you take care whats going on on the box, it does 
not really matter where /tmp resides.

On Friday 11 February 2005 21:13, Chad Morland wrote:
> I'm setting up a mail server at the momment, one of the things that I
> forgot to do was create /tmp as a separate partiton (/ = 2gb).  There
> will be no user logins to the machine aside from admins and the only
> thing that it will run is qmail acting as a smarthost (vanilla qmail,
> no amavis or anything of the sort.)
>
> In your opinion is having /tmp on the same partition as / really THAT
> bad in this case? I'm just wondering cause some people have mentioned
> that its a major security risk. Really, I don't think it is for what
> this box is doing.
>
> -CM
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Beastie logo *is* a li'l devil, ya gotta admit

[Mike Brown]

Anthony Atkielski wrote:
> Bob Johnson writes:
> 
> > I work in an office largely populated by born-again Christians, and some
> > of them very definitely object to the BSD logo.  Even after I explained
> > the  "daemon" thing, they still didn't think BSD should use "The Devil"
> > as its logo.
> 
> It doesn't help that some people use "devil" and "daemon"
> interchangeably.  Daemons were originally morally neutral entities; the
> Devil (or devils in generally) have been mostly evil creatures
> throughout history.  Of course, Judeo-Christian tradition turned daemons
> into fundamentally evil creatures (instead of just metaphysical
> helpers), too.

All of these people who try to rationalize that daemons are actually benign, 
helpful creatures and that it was the nasty bad religious nuts who associated 
them with malevolence seem to be overlooking the fact that the mascot's red 
color, pitchfork, spiked tail, and pointy ears are hallmarks of the 
modern/"wrong" interpretation of what a daemon is: a "li'l devil", so to 
speak.

It seems a bit absurd to suggest that the original artists were trying to 
represent the metaphysical helpers. The mascot is clearly a toned-down, 
cartoony rendition of the fundamentally-evil end of the supernatural, like 
Casper the Friendly Ghost, or the kind of devil that sits on Jerry the Mouse's 
shoulder and suggests mischievous things to do to Tom the Cat.
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Re: How do I set the source address on a multi-homed host?

[Alin-Adrian Anton]

Daniela wrote:
I have two NICs (one inside and one outside interface) with NAT activated. The 
problem is that every time I establish a connection with a machine on my LAN, 
it uses the address of the outside interface as the source of the packets, 
which creates problems with my firewall. How do I tell my machine to use the 
other address whenever I connect to a local machine?

Daniela
Hi Daniela,
Can you please be more specific? You mean this happens when you are 
connecting from inside intranet to some other point inside intranet?

I don't understand your topology. Intranet should have the same class 
network, C-class for instance /24, and the gateway should not see the 
packages from between 2 hosts in the same LAN. The switch/hub would see 
them only.

Can you please be more explicit of what's your setup, gateway rules, 
firewall, and what you are trying to do?

PS: if you are connecting from outside to inside, through the gateway 
which does nat, this sounds like bad firewall/nat rules.

Yours,
--
Alin-Adrian Anton
GPG keyID 0x183087BA (B129 E8F4 7B34 15A9 0785  2F7C 5823 ABA0 1830 87BA)
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Eric Kjeldergaard]

> http://www.bellsystemmemorial.com/bell_logos.html


I'm not sure that 6 times  in 110 years is "constantly changed"

-- 
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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Frank Laszlo]

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote:
On Feb 11, 2005, at 6:00 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote:
Since when did FreeBSD, a project always driven by volunteers and not 
by commercial matters, suddenly gain a marketing department that is 
trying to steer FreeBSD into the business sector?  Is FreeBSD 
starting to have marketing dictate technology instead of technology 
dictate marketing?

Sorry, but this does not make sense.
FreeBSD is driven by commercial matters.  Many of the people that work 
on it are paid to work on it by their employers, who are using it 
commercially.   FreeBSD will wither away if it does not continue to 
receive extensive commercial support like Linux gets.
I wouldnt say many, there are few commiters who are actually paid to 
work on it, most commiters/developers do it as a hobby.

__
Frank Laszlo
System Administrator
The VonOstin Group
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW:http://www.vonostingroup.com
Mobile: 248-863-7584

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Re: /tmp on same partition as /

[Chad Morland]

Thanks for the responses. I do have a firewall in place and the only
open port to the public is 25 which is qmail. I think I'll take your
considerations to heart and rebuild the box with its own /tmp
partition with noexec. I should have done that in the first place.
Thankfully it is not yet in production so its no biggie.

-CM 


On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:14:19 +0100, Oliver Leitner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> well, its ok to have /tmp on the same partition as /, as long as other
> security measurements work, for example a tripwire setup and logging user
> actions of any kind, also having an overview over the logs.
> 
> as long as these work, and you take care whats going on on the box, it does
> not really matter where /tmp resides.
> 
> On Friday 11 February 2005 21:13, Chad Morland wrote:
> > I'm setting up a mail server at the momment, one of the things that I
> > forgot to do was create /tmp as a separate partiton (/ = 2gb).  There
> > will be no user logins to the machine aside from admins and the only
> > thing that it will run is qmail acting as a smarthost (vanilla qmail,
> > no amavis or anything of the sort.)
> >
> > In your opinion is having /tmp on the same partition as / really THAT
> > bad in this case? I'm just wondering cause some people have mentioned
> > that its a major security risk. Really, I don't think it is for what
> > this box is doing.
> >
> > -CM
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Re: How do I set the source address on a multi-homed host?

[Frank Laszlo]

Daniela wrote:
I have two NICs (one inside and one outside interface) with NAT activated. The 
problem is that every time I establish a connection with a machine on my LAN, 
it uses the address of the outside interface as the source of the packets, 
which creates problems with my firewall. How do I tell my machine to use the 
other address whenever I connect to a local machine?

Daniela
 

Please fix your system time, either use ntpd or ntpdate.
__
Frank Laszlo
System Administrator
The VonOstin Group
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW:http://www.vonostingroup.com
Mobile: 248-863-7584

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Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Paul Mather]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 12:04:34 -0600, "Andrew L. Gould"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Friday 11 February 2005 08:14 am, Dag-Erling Smrgrav wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > > Imagine Linux dropping Tux for some meanlingless, lifeless logo?
> >
> > I'm glad you asked.
> >
> > Tux is a mascot, not a logo.  These are Linux logos:
> >
> > http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topiccaldera.gif
> > http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicdebian.gif
> > http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicmandrake.gif
> > http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicredhat.gif
> > http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicsuse.gif
> > http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicturbolinux.gif
> >
> 
> >
> > DES
> 
> No Slackware?  In my opinion, Slackware has the widest deviation in 
> professionalism between their logo and mascot. 
> 
> logo(s):
> http://slackware.com/grfx/shared/logo.png
> http://store.slackware.com/images/nav/s_topleft.png
> 
> mascot (pipe-smoking penguin):
> http://store.slackware.com/cgi-bin/store/slacklapel?id=E844B2UK:mv_pc=379

Quite a deviation indeed, especially considering their mascot is an
obvious nod to the Church of the SubGenius (http://www.subgenius.com):
the true purveyors of SLACK!

;-)

Cheers,

Paul.
-- 
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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