Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: Then if it is so unimportant why change it from beastie? I don't know ... why? The discussion I've seen has centered on developing a logo, not changing the cartoon mascot. I personally don't care about any of it for my own use, as long as the software remains at the same high quality level. But a logo would be nice for promoting the OS to other parties, particularly corporations and other similar organizations (as opposed to geeks sitting at home in a t-shirt in front of the machine with a Pepsi in hand). -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: The committers do know about this and are careful about it. You will note that this is discussed more fully here: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributing/contrib- how.html under the section: New Code or Major Value-Added Packages I am very surprised that you missed this. Could it be made any more obvious? Yes, it could be made about a thousand times more obvious. It should be right on the first page of the site, not buried in the documentation. And it is still a bit worrisome, because it says When working with large amounts of code, the touchy subject of copyrights also invariably comes up. Unfortunately, copyright applies to small amounts of code, too, not just large amounts. Even a few lines can lead to litigation if the copyright status of those lines is not verified and cleared before they are incorporated into the product. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: Technically superior products are technically superior because they have MORE than the customary RD put into them. That makes them MORE expensive than the median/mediocre products that dominate a market. Explain Intel. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
On Saturday 12 February 2005 02:07 am, Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: The committers do know about this and are careful about it. You will note that this is discussed more fully here: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributing/co ntrib- how.html under the section: New Code or Major Value-Added Packages I am very surprised that you missed this. Could it be made any more obvious? Yes, it could be made about a thousand times more obvious. It should be right on the first page of the site, not buried in the documentation. And it is still a bit worrisome, because it says When working with large amounts of code, the touchy subject of copyrights also invariably comes up. Unfortunately, copyright applies to small amounts of code, too, not just large amounts. Even a few lines can lead to litigation if the copyright status of those lines is not verified and cleared before they are incorporated into the product. I think it's great that you're volunteering to do this. Keep us updated on your status! - jt ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Oliver Leitner wrote: alot of discussions going on the past 48 hours about this topic, i guess there is alot of room for explanations left, that ppls want to hear, why not give the ppls that actually stand behind FreeBSD and behind the logo contest or whatever it is a chance to tell us what they where thinking about when they started the contest? also id like to know, *is* FreeBSD now coperate, like the previous poster tried to point out, or do we still have the bsd license here? I wasnt really trying to make the point, but it does almost seem that way. I guess I'm not using the right words. More exposure to the corporate world. Maybe thats a little better. __ Frank Laszlo System Administrator The VonOstin Group Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW:http://www.vonostingroup.com Mobile: 248-863-7584 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
On Thursday 10 February 2005 11:11 pm, Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank J. Laszlo writes: Who says it has to be small? Business cards and letterheads say that. Logos are often reproduced at very small sizes, even on large documents. They often appear in a corner or at the bottom of a page. Logos are not used in place of cover art, but they often are a _part_ of cover art. Getting back to the point at hand, the beastie is nothing more than a mascot. plain and simple. But people are talking like there will be no more beastie representing FreeBSD. I dont think this is the point. What surprises me is that people care so much. It's the software that's important, not the cartoon character that represents it. It makes me wonder what sorts of priorities people have. I'd prefer that people worry more about software quality, and less about pretty pictures. You know, I haven't posted anything about this subject to this list itself - such discussions are probably better suited for -advocacy. In any case, I did some checking ... Hmmm, let's see, Anthony Atielski, 30 posts on this subject alone, on a tech help list. Makes you wonder what sort of priorities you have. Anyway, if you feel that way then let the thread die, or take it to -advocacy. - jt ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Joshua Tinnin writes: Hmmm, let's see, Anthony Atielski, 30 posts on this subject alone, on a tech help list. Makes you wonder what sort of priorities you have. At the moment, I'm worried about FreeBSD. Anyway, if you feel that way then let the thread die, or take it to -advocacy. I reply to the posts in whichever list they occur. While I agree that it should be in -advocacy, if the posts are on this list, then I naturally reply to them here. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
On Friday 11 February 2005 02:44 pm, Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joshua Tinnin writes: Hmmm, let's see, Anthony Atielski, 30 posts on this subject alone, on a tech help list. Makes you wonder what sort of priorities you have. At the moment, I'm worried about FreeBSD. Listen. You come in here making vague accusations of legal wrongdoing, not just once, but TWICE! With no foundation or background, I might add. You make these accusations with close to zero actual knowledge of the situations involved. Do you know what that's called? That's called a cartooney threat. Anyway, if you feel that way then let the thread die, or take it to -advocacy. I reply to the posts in whichever list they occur. While I agree that it should be in -advocacy, if the posts are on this list, then I naturally reply to them here. Fine. Worry and worry, then. See what you get. - jt ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
At 2:56 PM -0800 2/11/05, Joshua Tinnin wrote: On Friday 11 February 2005 02:44 pm, Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joshua Tinnin writes: Hmmm, let's see, Anthony Atielski, 30 posts on this subject alone, on a tech help list. Makes you wonder what sort of priorities you have. At the moment, I'm worried about FreeBSD. Listen. You come in here making vague accusations of legal wrongdoing, not just once, but TWICE! With no foundation or background, I might add. You make these accusations with close to zero actual knowledge of the situations involved. Do you know what that's called? That's called a cartooney threat. Oh come on now. Given the recent cartoony lawsuit by SCO against IBM over Linux, I can understand his concern. *He* is not threatening anyone, he's just asking a few worthwhile questions. And the answer is that the Project is well aware that it needs to pay attention to these legal issues. First off, we already won the earlier ATT lawsuit against FreeBSD, and second off we did notice the SCO lawsuit. We are checking in with lawyers more than we used to, and deciding just how far we need to go wrt these issues. Even if we could easily win any cartoony lawsuit, the lawsuit itself takes money and time-resources that we would rather not lose. Certainly the ATT lawsuit in the 1990's caused a major slowdown in progress for FreeBSD while it was being fought. Speaking as a programmer, it is very very annoying that we have to spend time on these issues, but the fact remains that we *DO* have to pay attention to them. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn= [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Instituteor [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
On Friday 11 February 2005 04:36 pm, Garance A Drosihn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 2:56 PM -0800 2/11/05, Joshua Tinnin wrote: On Friday 11 February 2005 02:44 pm, Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joshua Tinnin writes: Hmmm, let's see, Anthony Atielski, 30 posts on this subject alone, on a tech help list. Makes you wonder what sort of priorities you have. At the moment, I'm worried about FreeBSD. Listen. You come in here making vague accusations of legal wrongdoing, not just once, but TWICE! With no foundation or background, I might add. You make these accusations with close to zero actual knowledge of the situations involved. Do you know what that's called? That's called a cartooney threat. Oh come on now. Given the recent cartoony lawsuit by SCO against IBM over Linux, I can understand his concern. *He* is not threatening anyone, he's just asking a few worthwhile questions. And the answer is that the Project is well aware that it needs to pay attention to these legal issues. First off, we already won the earlier ATT lawsuit against FreeBSD, and second off we did notice the SCO lawsuit. We are checking in with lawyers more than we used to, and deciding just how far we need to go wrt these issues. Even if we could easily win any cartoony lawsuit, the lawsuit itself takes money and time-resources that we would rather not lose. Certainly the ATT lawsuit in the 1990's caused a major slowdown in progress for FreeBSD while it was being fought. Speaking as a programmer, it is very very annoying that we have to spend time on these issues, but the fact remains that we *DO* have to pay attention to them. He is questioning the activities of contributors to the project who are not acting in any way contrary to their employers' interests, copyright law or the FreeBSD project, insinuating that they are destroying the project by doing this for the above reasons. No such thing is happening. He does not have the background information to be making such comments. Constructive comments about liability are worthwhile, but picking stuff out of thin air and getting hysterical over it is not helpful. I have yet to hear anything from Anthony Atielski that would give creedence to his assertions, because according to him geeks don't know what they're doing in regards to intellectual property. Is he an attorney, or is he just another geek who doesn't know what he's talking about, by his own standards? Anyway, useful and constructive discussion in this area is helpful. Saying, The sky is falling ... on FreeBSD RIGHT NOW! without substantiation is only going to invite flames. - jt ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony Atkielski Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:19 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!! Ted Mittelstaedt writes: That is so not true that it makes me almost as angry as the original debate. Maybe getting angry about a mere logo is a bad sign. Then if it is so unimportant why change it from beastie? Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony Atkielski Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 2:47 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!! Joshua Tinnin writes: I don't think you understand the history of FreeBSD. Many people who work at Yahoo! are committers, and their employer not only knows about this but encourages it. That's not good enough. The employer has to assign its copyrights as well, or waive the usual work-for-hire arrangement that is implicit for employees writing code within the scope of their work. Anthony, The committers do know about this and are careful about it. You will note that this is discussed more fully here: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributing/contrib- how.html under the section: New Code or Major Value-Added Packages I am very surprised that you missed this. Could it be made any more obvious? Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony Atkielski Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 2:54 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!! Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: I don't know. Go ask them. Look in the codebase yourself, or pay someone to do so. Is this what you would tell someone contemplating a multimillion-dollar investment in a FreeBSD rollout to 10,000 servers? I don't know? Look it up yourself? No, I would tell them: Please contact my sales manager to discuss terms on which you may retain me to consult for this project Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony Atkielski Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 9:06 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!! Bart Silverstrim writes: People want to change the logo from Beastie to something else because Beastie isn't professional enough, so some committers decided to hold a contest for a new logo? Beastie isn't a logo. There is no logo for FreeBSD at the moment. Wrong, I already answered your earlier post where you claim that the image wasn't used as a logo. A more likely problem is that the devil-worship aspect of Beastie might prevent religiously fanatic potential customers from considering the OS in the first place, thus making it impossible to get a foot in the door. I am sure that Walmart has lots of people working on device drivers that are badly needed in FreeBSD. Would you prefer that FreeBSD remain the best kept secret on the Web? It's a good operating system ... why not promote it? It's better than Linux. It would be nice to see a technically superior product actually win, for once. Fundamentally impossible, Anthony. Technically superior products are technically superior because they have MORE than the customary RD put into them. That makes them MORE expensive than the median/mediocre products that dominate a market. If you want to play on a team that makes the best product in the business, then you are going to have to be content with the minority of the market that truly wants the best product that money can buy. If however your shooting for the largest market segment, then your going to have to make your product as cheap as you can get it and have it still meet the minimum criteria needed to work. This is why the new Rolls Royce puts out 435 hp @ 5000 rpm, will do the quarter mile in 14.3 seconds, has a top speed of 130Mph, and costs nearly half a million dollars. They only make about 600-1000 of them a year, you know. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Vonleigh Simmons Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 8:38 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!! As an artist here is how I see it: Beastie is a mascot, not a logo. It's like having Disney with a Mickey Mouse. The logo is either the word Disney in that very distinct font, or the black ears. The mascot can be part of the logo but not always; in the Disney example it's derived from it (this approach could work with Beastie). Another example is monster.com, that also has a distinct mascot and a logo (don't like the logo, just pointing it out). So the logo contest could use beastie in some interesting way: framed, simplified, stylized, vectorized, etc. In other words made into a real logo from the cartoon character. By stylize I mean for example what the fox looks like in the firefox logo. That already has been done, it was done over a decade ago by Walnut Creek. The logo they created and used for FreeBSD is exactly that. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 09 February 2005 07:09 pm, - wrote: http://www.petitiononline.com/fbsdmsc1/petition.html Julien Gabel wrote: See the thread The FreeBSD Project is announcing a public competition for the new logo design. in -advocacy - I've already replied with my views on the subject, along the same lines as your comments. I'm not subscribed to -advocacy can you provide me with an archive link to this thread in question? I wasn't able to find it based on the subject you provided. You can follow this post at: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/2005-February/ I have been watching the fallout regarding this issue on both the advocacy and questions email lists. It is clear from the advocacy list, that the announcement was made prematurely and did not convey the intended message either clearly or completely. That is true. It is clear from reading both lists that much of the anger is based upon false assumptions, misinformation and incomplete editing of the leaked document. Sorry, but that is false. Much of the anger is based on Robert Watson (and whatever other core members are arguing with him over this) not IMMEDIATELY becoming completely forthright with the FreeBSD community as soon as the leak occurred. I am deeply concerned with what I see going on here. Since when has the FreeBSD Project had secret information of a sales and marketing nature? This is a brand new one to me. I can condone secrets in the area of leaglities - such as back in the bad old days when UCB was sued by USL, there were many secrets, a few that I and some others were able to ferret out but still many buried, and still some people under gag orders. But there has never before in the entire history of the FreeBSD Project been a situation where sales and marketing information has been considered secret Sure, BSDI operated like this - but they were not part of the FreeBSD Project. And, I am also concerned about the historical revisionists who are claiming FreeBSD never had a logo. That is hogwash. Nobody ever said that FreeBSD lacked a logo until after a few days ago when this ill-conceived competition was leaked - because everyone knew the logo was Beastie. Yes I understand that some commercial consultants and such have had problems due to the logo being a devil image. But if Robert Watson had wanted to respond to this then he should have brought it up for discussion with the userbase immediately, not sneaked around talking to his cronies at Apple Computer, trying to figure out how to push this off onto the userbase in a way that people wouldn't object to doing so. This logo competition is childish - 99% of the FreeBSD community members are not graphic artists and couldn't draw their way out of a paper bag - such a competition does not have as it's goal that of obtaining an image, it's only goal is assuaging pissed off people by pretending that they have a hand in the decision. I (just a user) ask that the petition effort be delayed until the official announcement is made and the issues can be drawn out and discussed more clearly. No, sorry. The core team apparently feels that the way to do things now is to made decisions of this nature first, then have discussion later, rather than the reverse which previously has been the case. Therefore if they are going to play it like this, then all users who disagree with this idea should do exactly as they are doing. In short, we have made our decision we don't want to see beastie removed from logo status, and we will be happy to discuss it after we have made up our minds, just like the core team seems happy to discuss their decision to jettison beastie as the logo, after having made up their minds to do so. I personally might have supported a logo change if the core team had started tossing around the idea in the mailing lists FIRST in an informal basis. And I will also say that when I worked with Addison Wesley back in 2000 for the cover art for my book, I did consider this as an issue that might possibly impact sales of my book. However I decided that I would be willing to take the financial impact on a personal basis of losing a few sales to people who are so blinded by their idea of religion that they wouldn't touch a book with an image of a devil on the cover - because the FreeBSD devil image has a historical significance to FreeBSD that is important. After all, in my book I am asking people to put aside their concerns that FreeBSD is a non-commercial operating system, and run it on their production business systems. I would be a hipocrite of the worst kind if I were to have not put aside my concerns that the Beastie image was unacceptable to businesses. However, as the core team as apparently represented by R Watson has stated they want to consider this internally first, then just tell the userbase what they are going to do later on, I say screw you, and I'll argue and fight against this
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 02/09/05 09:45 PM, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC sat at the `puter and typed: Yes, but business is why Microsoft Windows (*) sucks old rocks. Microsoft is in business to make money, not better software. I was always under the impression that while the FreeBSD foundation was in business to promote FreeBSD, the chief focus of the core team has always been a better OS. Keeping Beastie is a statement of sorts that the FreeBSD team is NOT interested in business, just their work. Once upon a time, a geek could get by with their idiosyncrasies because they were obviously not interested in the power points that the businessmen and politicians wanted. They were only interested in their gadgetry, software, and whatever cool new technology came along. Now, one by one, everyone's worried about business like images, logos, and whatnot. Hi Louis, Yep, I was wondering how long it would take before someone figured this one out. We know the real rea$on$ that this logo change is being contemplated, don't we. You may be right, but I still strongly (but respectfully) disagree. And I strongly disagree without any respect. Respectful disagreement is one of the power points that the businessmen and politicians want, it has never been a geek idiosyncracy. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: And, I am also concerned about the historical revisionists who are claiming FreeBSD never had a logo. That is hogwash. Where can I see the logo? Nobody ever said that FreeBSD lacked a logo until after a few days ago when this ill-conceived competition was leaked - because everyone knew the logo was Beastie. That's not a logo. Just about every image I've seen of Beastie has been different, so it's not a logo, it's a character associated with the brand (like Mickey Mouse). Logos are simple and instantly recognizable; they do not mutate from one presentation to the next. Most open-source projects don't have logos; even Linux lacks a proper logo (one could probably be made from the popular penguin character, but I haven't seen any examples). Red Hat, however, _does_ have a logo. Yes I understand that some commercial consultants and such have had problems due to the logo being a devil image. Logos need to be as neutral as possible, since they will be very widely used and very heavily imprinted in customers' minds. They must not conjure up thoughts of anything except the brand they represent. This logo competition is childish - 99% of the FreeBSD community members are not graphic artists and couldn't draw their way out of a paper bag ... That's why I figured I'd try my hand at it; see http://perso.wanadoo.fr/anthony.atkielski/FreeBSDLogo1.jpg It meets the technical criteria for a logo; the aesthetic aspect is an open question. This logo concept uses ITC Garamond Bold (traditionally associated with FreeBSD and the BSDs generally) as the typeface for the logotype, thus retaining a link with prior generations of BSD (and showing kinship with other versions of BSD, such as NetBSD). I've adjusted the spacing of the logotype to tighten up the characters a bit. The squared oval surrounding the logotype represents continuous operation. The figure at the lower right is both a heart (representing the fondness that FreeBSD users have for the operating system) and, in conjunction with the oval, a symbolic pointed tail--an indirect reference to the original Beastie. The gold color for the oval represents reliability; the red color of the rest of logo again is an indirect reference to the original (red) Beastie. The simplicity of the logo makes it inexpensive to print on paper (it can be printed monochrome or with simple two-color offset, or with process offset). There are no complex halftones or shadings or fine details that might be difficult to print or might become muddy or fuzzy when resizing the logo for display. The spot colors used are Pantone 144 CVU (gold) and Pantone 187 CVU (red). These can be easily converted to CMYK, RGB, grayscale, etc., as required. However I decided that I would be willing to take the financial impact on a personal basis of losing a few sales to people who are so blinded by their idea of religion that they wouldn't touch a book with an image of a devil on the cover - because the FreeBSD devil image has a historical significance to FreeBSD that is important. Actually, I think the devil aspect has little impact on public perception of FreeBSD. It's having a cute little cartoon mascot in sneakers that has the real impact--it implies that FreeBSD is a toy for kids, not a serious product for professionals and corporations. A more serious image of Beastie should be considered for these venues. And in any case, this mascot is distinct from a logo. The image used on your book is not a logo. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: Yep, I was wondering how long it would take before someone figured this one out. We know the real rea$on$ that this logo change is being contemplated, don't we. Personally, I wonder how FreeBSD survives based exclusively on volunteer efforts. It's a noble idea, but in the real world, things cost money, and people need to earn a living. Something that survives exclusively from the kindness of strangers leads a fragile existence. FreeBSD has a large following and seems reasonably stable, but when something is a volunteer effort, the larger the following, the better. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Anthony Atkielski ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050210 20:34]: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: Yep, I was wondering how long it would take before someone figured this one out. We know the real rea$on$ that this logo change is being contemplated, don't we. Personally, I wonder how FreeBSD survives based exclusively on volunteer efforts. It's a noble idea, but in the real world, things cost money, and people need to earn a living. Something that survives exclusively from the kindness of strangers leads a fragile existence. FreeBSD has a large following and seems reasonably stable, but when something is a volunteer effort, the larger the following, the better. Netcraft confirms it: FreeBSD is dying! I'd rather see effort towards some of the really *stupid* bugs in 5.x that languish for months with a fix included. Like linux-pango being broken, meaning that by default you can't actually run a lot of recent Linux binaries (a Thunderbird nightly got me on that one). Or /etc/fstab allowing msdos as a disk type but fsck not, and the fsck refusing to accept the fix despite the system inconsistency. *Stupid* little things like that are actually the most distressing thing about 5.x - I use FreeBSD because it mostly does The Right Thing. - d. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
David Gerard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050210 20:41]: I'd rather see effort towards some of the really *stupid* bugs in 5.x that languish for months with a fix included. Like linux-pango being broken, meaning that by default you can't actually run a lot of recent Linux binaries (a Thunderbird nightly got me on that one). Or /etc/fstab allowing msdos as a disk type but fsck not, and the fsck refusing to accept the fix despite the system inconsistency. *Stupid* little things like that are actually the most distressing thing about 5.x - I use FreeBSD because it mostly does The Right Thing. I meant, of course, the fsck.c maintainer. I certainly do not wish to call someone a fsck ;-) and apologise for any offence given! If the new logo doesn't have horns then it will be prima facie evidence that FreeBSD has been taken over by fsckwits. - d. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Anthony Atkielski writes: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: And, I am also concerned about the historical revisionists who are claiming FreeBSD never had a logo. That is hogwash. Where can I see the logo? Nobody ever said that FreeBSD lacked a logo until after a few days ago when this ill-conceived competition was leaked - because everyone knew the logo was Beastie. That's not a logo. Just about every image I've seen of Beastie has been different, so it's not a logo, it's a character associated with the brand (like Mickey Mouse). Logos are simple and instantly recognizable; they do not mutate from one presentation to the next. Most open-source projects don't have logos; even Linux lacks a proper logo (one could probably be made from the popular penguin character, but I haven't seen any examples). Okay, I figured I just as well join in...seems like a good idea. I'm choosing this email to respond to: randomly selected from a relatively large number of messages expressing this same idea. The logo can be seen on the website www.freeBSD.org. it is in fact a relatively (from a printing perspective) high-resolution image of our daemon, holding a pitchfork on his left side. He is slightly facing forward, though looks off somewhat to the right. I know, He's a mascot, not a daemon...but that's not entirely true (not true at all?). dictionary.com says that a logo is a A name, symbol, or trademark designed for easy and definite recognition, especially one borne on a single printing plate or piece of type. or a n : a company emblem or device These are definitely vague enough to not disqualify an image of our daemon on technical merit. Further, FreeBSD proper calls the daemon image our logo (see logo_saver.ko). Before I read another of these stating that beastie is not a logo, I thought I should voice the fact (not my opinion, mind you) that we do indeed have a logo, albeit one that could use some modification to ease reproduction. (The latter part being opinion) -- If I write a signature, my emails will appear more personalised. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Eric Kjeldergaard writes: The logo can be seen on the website www.freeBSD.org. it is in fact a relatively (from a printing perspective) high-resolution image of our daemon, holding a pitchfork on his left side. He is slightly facing forward, though looks off somewhat to the right. I know, He's a mascot, not a daemon...but that's not entirely true (not true at all?). Tell you what: Go out and find out how much it would cost to print 10,000 copies of that logo on paper, exactly as it appears on the site, in crisp detail and bright colors. Then you'll see why a separate logo is required. A name, symbol, or trademark designed for easy and definite recognition, especially one borne on a single printing plate or piece of type. Yes, a _single printing plate_ or a _piece of type_. The image you reference doesn't even come close to that. These are definitely vague enough to not disqualify an image of our daemon on technical merit. It's precisely this technical merit that causes the problem. Beastie is too unsuitable for printing or for use in a wide range of media. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Eric Kjeldergaard writes: The logo can be seen on the website www.freeBSD.org. it is in fact a relatively (from a printing perspective) high-resolution image of our daemon, holding a pitchfork on his left side. He is slightly facing forward, though looks off somewhat to the right. I know, He's a mascot, not a daemon...but that's not entirely true (not true at all?). Tell you what: Go out and find out how much it would cost to print 10,000 copies of that logo on paper, exactly as it appears on the site, in crisp detail and bright colors. Then you'll see why a separate logo is required. A name, symbol, or trademark designed for easy and definite recognition, especially one borne on a single printing plate or piece of type. Yes, a _single printing plate_ or a _piece of type_. The image you reference doesn't even come close to that. you are all looking at a web graphic. Allready rendered as process colors. Its impossible to say how many printing plates its on. Obviously its more than 1. But that graphic could easily be a spot color print job, Which I think by today's standards is acceptable. And I believe you stated a logo should be free of screens You only need 1 plate to do a screen, so this is also irrelevent. Regards, Frank Laszlo ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:09:47 +0100, Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric Kjeldergaard writes: The logo can be seen on the website www.freeBSD.org. it is in fact a relatively (from a printing perspective) high-resolution image of our daemon, holding a pitchfork on his left side. He is slightly facing forward, though looks off somewhat to the right. I know, He's a mascot, not a daemon...but that's not entirely true (not true at all?). Tell you what: Go out and find out how much it would cost to print 10,000 copies of that logo on paper, exactly as it appears on the site, in crisp detail and bright colors. Then you'll see why a separate logo is required. A name, symbol, or trademark designed for easy and definite recognition, especially one borne on a single printing plate or piece of type. Yes, a _single printing plate_ or a _piece of type_. The image you reference doesn't even come close to that. These are definitely vague enough to not disqualify an image of our daemon on technical merit. It's precisely this technical merit that causes the problem. Beastie is too unsuitable for printing or for use in a wide range of media. -- Anthony Very *cough* convenient cut job. I certainly mentioned that the freeBSD logo could use some simplification for ease of printing. My argument was simply that FreeBSD proper calls the beastie a logo, the userbase calls it a logo, and the dictionary does not invalidate it as a logo. the word especially used in a definition means taht it is not a requirement for fulfillment, just a trend in things fulfilling that definition. Further, dictionaries work by listing multiple definitions, and the fulfillment of any of them would qualify the word for acceptable use. Perhaps you missed the following (dictionary.com) n : a company emblem or device Perhaps emblem was troubling. An emblem is defined as (again, dictionary.com) n 1: special design or visual object representing a quality, type, group, etc. 2: a visible symbol representing an abstract idea Since a mascot (which most/all are certainly saying the daemon is) is a n : a person or animal that is adopted by a team or other group as a symbolic figure I should certainly think that a representation of a mascot, is a visual object representing the group that the mascot also represented. And this is definitely an emblem of FreeBSD. What's more important, from a linguistic perspective, is the usage within the group in question. The group in question is definitely FreeBSD core team and the FreeBSD community. These messages and dozens like it show that the commonly understood usage of logo does include images of our mascot, again, easily seen by looking at logo_saver. -- If I write a signature, my emails will appear more personalised. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
On 02/10/05 12:55 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt sat at the `puter and typed: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 02/09/05 09:45 PM, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC sat at the `puter and typed: Yes, but business is why Microsoft Windows (*) sucks old rocks. Microsoft is in business to make money, not better software. I was always under the impression that while the FreeBSD foundation was in business to promote FreeBSD, the chief focus of the core team has always been a better OS. Keeping Beastie is a statement of sorts that the FreeBSD team is NOT interested in business, just their work. Once upon a time, a geek could get by with their idiosyncrasies because they were obviously not interested in the power points that the businessmen and politicians wanted. They were only interested in their gadgetry, software, and whatever cool new technology came along. Now, one by one, everyone's worried about business like images, logos, and whatnot. Hi Louis, Yep, I was wondering how long it would take before someone figured this one out. We know the real rea$on$ that this logo change is being contemplated, don't we. Thank you. I thought I was the only one . . . You may be right, but I still strongly (but respectfully) disagree. And I strongly disagree without any respect. Respectful disagreement is one of the power points that the businessmen and politicians want, it has never been a geek idiosyncracy. LOL! Yeah, well, I have to admit, I'm fuming over here too. Lou -- Louis LeBlanc FreeBSD-at-keyslapper-DOT-net Fully Funded Hobbyist, KeySlapper Extrordinaire :) Please send off-list email to: leblanc at keyslapper d.t net Key fingerprint = C5E7 4762 F071 CE3B ED51 4FB8 AF85 A2FE 80C8 D9A2 Immortality consists largely of boredom. -- Zefrem Cochrane, Metamorphosis, stardate 3219.8 pgpqmNGGAx5oc.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
On 02/10/05 10:30 AM, Anthony Atkielski sat at the `puter and typed: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: And, I am also concerned about the historical revisionists who are claiming FreeBSD never had a logo. That is hogwash. Where can I see the logo? Nobody ever said that FreeBSD lacked a logo until after a few days ago when this ill-conceived competition was leaked - because everyone knew the logo was Beastie. That's not a logo. Just about every image I've seen of Beastie has been different, so it's not a logo, it's a character associated with the brand (like Mickey Mouse). Logos are simple and instantly recognizable; they do not mutate from one presentation to the next. Most open-source projects don't have logos; even Linux lacks a proper logo (one could probably be made from the popular penguin character, but I haven't seen any examples). Red Hat, however, _does_ have a logo. Yes I understand that some commercial consultants and such have had problems due to the logo being a devil image. Logos need to be as neutral as possible, since they will be very widely used and very heavily imprinted in customers' minds. They must not conjure up thoughts of anything except the brand they represent. Neutrality is purely objective in this case (and many others). Uninformed neutrality can be highly inflammatory. Beastie is only considered inflammatory to those uninformed fundamentalists who haven't been satisfied beating down every other freedom in this country and need someone or something else to pick on. Next they'll be burning books and witches again. Sorry, getting a little OT, but there it is. This logo competition is childish - 99% of the FreeBSD community members are not graphic artists and couldn't draw their way out of a paper bag ... That's why I figured I'd try my hand at it; see http://perso.wanadoo.fr/anthony.atkielski/FreeBSDLogo1.jpg I'm afraid I don't care for it. The heart is a bit hokey, and, as already mentioned by Ted, if you ditch that and make an honest to goodness daemon tail, it'll stand half a chance to be adopted in some degree by the community. It meets the technical criteria for a logo; the aesthetic aspect is an open question. Those technical criteria were NOT drawn out in community fashion. They forgot one very important thing: The logo must be historically significant. That bit about not offending anyone is bullshit plain and simple. I for one think this whole PC movement is bull. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for peoples right to live their lives, but the PC movement should have died exactly two days after it started. This logo concept uses ITC Garamond Bold (traditionally associated with FreeBSD and the BSDs generally) as the typeface for the logotype, thus retaining a link with prior generations of BSD (and showing kinship with other versions of BSD, such as NetBSD). I've adjusted the spacing of the logotype to tighten up the characters a bit. Doesn't someone else own that font? The squared oval surrounding the logotype represents continuous operation. The figure at the lower right is both a heart (representing the fondness that FreeBSD users have for the operating system) and, in conjunction with the oval, a symbolic pointed tail--an indirect reference to the original Beastie. The gold color for the oval represents reliability; the red color of the rest of logo again is an indirect reference to the original (red) Beastie. The simplicity of the logo makes it inexpensive to print on paper (it can be printed monochrome or with simple two-color offset, or with process offset). There are no complex halftones or shadings or fine details that might be difficult to print or might become muddy or fuzzy when resizing the logo for display. The spot colors used are Pantone 144 CVU (gold) and Pantone 187 CVU (red). These can be easily converted to CMYK, RGB, grayscale, etc., as required. However I decided that I would be willing to take the financial impact on a personal basis of losing a few sales to people who are so blinded by their idea of religion that they wouldn't touch a book with an image of a devil on the cover - because the FreeBSD devil image has a historical significance to FreeBSD that is important. Actually, I think the devil aspect has little impact on public perception of FreeBSD. It's having a cute little cartoon mascot in sneakers that has the real impact--it implies that FreeBSD is a toy for kids, not a serious product for professionals and corporations. A more serious image of Beastie should be considered for these venues. And in any case, this mascot is distinct from a logo. The image used on your book is not a logo. And this is still wrong. As mentioned at least one million times on this very list in the years I've been here, it's NOT a devil. It's a daemon. Now the fundies have the FreeBSD community using the wrong word. And for the record, those sneakers
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
On 02/10/05 08:03 AM, Eric Kjeldergaard sat at the `puter and typed: Anthony Atkielski writes: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: And, I am also concerned about the historical revisionists who are claiming FreeBSD never had a logo. That is hogwash. Where can I see the logo? Nobody ever said that FreeBSD lacked a logo until after a few days ago when this ill-conceived competition was leaked - because everyone knew the logo was Beastie. That's not a logo. Just about every image I've seen of Beastie has been different, so it's not a logo, it's a character associated with the brand (like Mickey Mouse). Logos are simple and instantly recognizable; they do not mutate from one presentation to the next. Most open-source projects don't have logos; even Linux lacks a proper logo (one could probably be made from the popular penguin character, but I haven't seen any examples). Okay, I figured I just as well join in...seems like a good idea. I'm choosing this email to respond to: randomly selected from a relatively large number of messages expressing this same idea. The logo can be seen on the website www.freeBSD.org. it is in fact a relatively (from a printing perspective) high-resolution image of our daemon, holding a pitchfork on his left side. He is slightly facing forward, though looks off somewhat to the right. I know, He's a mascot, not a daemon...but that's not entirely true (not true at all?). dictionary.com says that a logo is a A name, symbol, or trademark designed for easy and definite recognition, especially one borne on a single printing plate or piece of type. or a n : a company emblem or device These are definitely vague enough to not disqualify an image of our daemon on technical merit. Further, FreeBSD proper calls the daemon image our logo (see logo_saver.ko). Before I read another of these stating that beastie is not a logo, I thought I should voice the fact (not my opinion, mind you) that we do indeed have a logo, albeit one that could use some modification to ease reproduction. (The latter part being opinion) There are a couple other images labeled as logos on the FreeBSD site: http://www.freebsd.org/gifs/littlelogo.gif http://www.freebsd.org/gifs/powerlogo.gif Plus the fact that anyone who is even remotely familiar with FreeBSDs existence would immediately associate Beastie with FreeBSD. Yeah, maybe that is considered a mascot, but nothing I've seen supports the idea that the mascot can't be part of the logo. Lou -- Louis LeBlanc FreeBSD-at-keyslapper-DOT-net Fully Funded Hobbyist, KeySlapper Extrordinaire :) Please send off-list email to: leblanc at keyslapper d.t net Key fingerprint = C5E7 4762 F071 CE3B ED51 4FB8 AF85 A2FE 80C8 D9A2 All life evolves by the differential survival of replicating entities. -- Dawkins pgprnznyaMQX8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Frank Laszlo writes: you are all looking at a web graphic. Allready rendered as process colors. Its impossible to say how many printing plates its on. Process is always four plates, except for the rare hexachrome offset, which is six plates. Spot colors require one plate per color. Two-color jobs are pretty economical, which is why you see so much two-color work. But that graphic could easily be a spot color print job, Which I think by today's standards is acceptable. I don't know what you mean by this. And I believe you stated a logo should be free of screens You only need 1 plate to do a screen, so this is also irrelevent. Screens cause a problem when you reduce a logo to small sizes, as there are limits on the line frequency you can use for screens, and if the screen is too coarse for a tiny graphic, it will look really bad. So it's best to avoid screens altogether. Worse yet is having multiple screens on several plates, in which case you have to worry about registration issues, and the screens usually have to be much more coarse, which again causes problems for small sizes. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
* Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] [0255 08:55]: Yep, I was wondering how long it would take before someone figured this one out. We know the real rea$on$ that this logo change is being contemplated, don't we. You seem to think you do, certainly. Why don't you ask core instead of reading their minds? -- 'A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction into a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.' -- Calvin discovers Usenet Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Louis LeBlanc writes: Neutrality is purely objective in this case (and many others). Uninformed neutrality can be highly inflammatory. Beastie is only considered inflammatory to those uninformed fundamentalists who haven't been satisfied beating down every other freedom in this country and need someone or something else to pick on. They are potential customers. One of them is even President. I'm afraid I don't care for it. It's just an example. The heart is a bit hokey, and, as already mentioned by Ted, if you ditch that and make an honest to goodness daemon tail, it'll stand half a chance to be adopted in some degree by the community. If you put an obvious demon tail in the logo, some customers may object. Others may say nothing but might be put off by the image. Those technical criteria were NOT drawn out in community fashion. They don't have to be. The technical criteria are imposed by the real world of printing and display technologies. These are the criteria that must be met if you want to print and display with good results and at a reasonable price. It doesn't matter what the community thinks in this case. That bit about not offending anyone is bullshit plain and simple. I for one think this whole PC movement is bull. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for peoples right to live their lives, but the PC movement should have died exactly two days after it started. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's not likely to help the spread of FreeBSD. Doesn't someone else own that font? Typefaces are not protected in that way. You can use any typeface you want for anything. The only protected aspects of typefaces are making copies of the actual font files (which are considered software and are protected by copyright), and using the _name_ of the typeface without authorization (making another typeface and calling it the same thing). The actual outlines themselves can be used in anything. In order to prevent the potential problem of embedding fonts in the EPS file, I converted them to outlines before saving the file. And this is still wrong. As mentioned at least one million times on this very list in the years I've been here, it's NOT a devil. It's a daemon. Now the fundies have the FreeBSD community using the wrong word. Nothing prevents you from designing your own logo and presenting it to everyone else. Then you can get it right. And for the record, those sneakers don't mean anything like a toy. They are for speed. Fine, but are you prepared to explain that in detail to each and every potential corporate user? If you can find something that is still historically significant, doesn't use text (as mentioned by Ted, text logos are BORING) ... As I've said, logos don't have to be interesting, they just have to be memorable. Text logos are everywhere around us. I have only one reason to keep Beastie that has anything to do with the fact that I just plain like him. And that's the reason. I just plain like Beastie. I have *lots* of reasons I think Beastie should stay that have nothing whatsoever to do with that fact. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Interesting. I couldn't care less what the mascot or symbol of FreeBSD might be. The only thing that interests me is the software. I use quite a few software products that have really bad logos, I think (I'm not sure because I don't look at the logos very much). -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Frank Laszlo writes: you are all looking at a web graphic. Allready rendered as process colors. Its impossible to say how many printing plates its on. Process is always four plates, except for the rare hexachrome offset, which is six plates. Spot colors require one plate per color. Two-color jobs are pretty economical, which is why you see so much two-color work. Yes, Process colors being 4 plates, but rendered properly, it could be less. But that graphic could easily be a spot color print job, Which I think by today's standards is acceptable. I don't know what you mean by this. The current logo as it is shown on freebsd.org, COULD be printed on 2 plates, as a 2 color job. those colors being black and red. (of course red isnt true red, it would be some pantone color) But being a web graphic that it is, you cant tell that by looking at it. And I believe you stated a logo should be free of screens You only need 1 plate to do a screen, so this is also irrelevent. Screens cause a problem when you reduce a logo to small sizes, as there are limits on the line frequency you can use for screens, and if the screen is too coarse for a tiny graphic, it will look really bad. So it's best to avoid screens altogether. Worse yet is having multiple screens on several plates, in which case you have to worry about registration issues, and the screens usually have to be much more coarse, which again causes problems for small sizes. This isnt an issue with todays modern digital 4 color presses such as the iGen3. It has no problem with registration if ran by a qualified operator. Now if you are a 80's or 90's printer using an old heidelburg 2 color press, sure.. registration is very difficult when dealing with small print and screens. Furthermore, anyone with experience in the modern printing world knows that getting high quality (and affordable) printed artwork on a small piece is very simple when using the right equipment. I've done several of these type of jobs on the iGen3 we have here at my office. Anyways, this is WAY off from the original post, So I end it with that. Kind Regards, Frank Laszlo ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Frank Laszlo writes: Yes, Process colors being 4 plates, but rendered properly, it could be less. All process printing requires four (or six) colors. That's what process means. The current logo as it is shown on freebsd.org, COULD be printed on 2 plates, as a 2 color job. those colors being black and red. Possibly. It would still look odd, though. This isnt an issue with todays modern digital 4 color presses such as the iGen3. It's an issue with any press. Digital presses have less trouble with registration, but they aren't any better at getting the line frequencies higher. Indeed, normal offset provides higher frequencies. It has no problem with registration if ran by a qualified operator. Now if you are a 80's or 90's printer using an old heidelburg 2 color press, sure.. registration is very difficult when dealing with small print and screens. What sort of printer would FreeBSD best be able to afford? Furthermore, anyone with experience in the modern printing world knows that getting high quality (and affordable) printed artwork on a small piece is very simple when using the right equipment. It doesn't matter what equipment you use. Small artwork with lots of fine detail reduces poorly; if it contains halftones, it reduces even more poorly. I've done several of these type of jobs on the iGen3 we have here at my office. Anyways, this is WAY off from the original post, So I end it with that. Actually it is highly relevant, since a key reason for developing a simple logo is to make it easy to display and print. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Frank Laszlo writes: Yes, Process colors being 4 plates, but rendered properly, it could be less. All process printing requires four (or six) colors. That's what process means. The current logo as it is shown on freebsd.org, COULD be printed on 2 plates, as a 2 color job. those colors being black and red. Possibly. It would still look odd, though. This isnt an issue with todays modern digital 4 color presses such as the iGen3. It's an issue with any press. Digital presses have less trouble with registration, but they aren't any better at getting the line frequencies higher. Indeed, normal offset provides higher frequencies. It has no problem with registration if ran by a qualified operator. Now if you are a 80's or 90's printer using an old heidelburg 2 color press, sure.. registration is very difficult when dealing with small print and screens. What sort of printer would FreeBSD best be able to afford? Well, I'm not going into budget issues, but yes you have a point here. I am open to quote any print job if the FreeBSD Foundation so chooses to do official corporate print work. e.g. letterhead, business cards, printed manuals, etc.. I would of course give my normal discount as I do with any other non-profit organizations. Furthermore, anyone with experience in the modern printing world knows that getting high quality (and affordable) printed artwork on a small piece is very simple when using the right equipment. It doesn't matter what equipment you use. Small artwork with lots of fine detail reduces poorly; if it contains halftones, it reduces even more poorly. Who says it has to be small? and how small are you talking for print work? on a CD? thats not very small IMHO. One should be able to attain excellent quality at that size. I consider small artwork to be 1in. I've done several of these type of jobs on the iGen3 we have here at my office. Anyways, this is WAY off from the original post, So I end it with that. Actually it is highly relevant, since a key reason for developing a simple logo is to make it easy to display and print. Getting back to the point at hand, the beastie is nothing more than a mascot. plain and simple. But people are talking like there will be no more beastie representing FreeBSD. I dont think this is the point. Also, whoever started that petition needs to actually get some inside information other than a non publicized (sp?) anouncement. The true intention of this logo contest is likely to give more of a corporate identity to freebsd as a whole. I am now done with this thread. Once again, I will end it. (hopefully) :) Kind Regards, Frank Laszlo ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
alot of discussions going on the past 48 hours about this topic, i guess there is alot of room for explanations left, that ppls want to hear, why not give the ppls that actually stand behind FreeBSD and behind the logo contest or whatever it is a chance to tell us what they where thinking about when they started the contest? also id like to know, *is* FreeBSD now coperate, like the previous poster tried to point out, or do we still have the bsd license here? cheers on a late night discussion) oliver. On Friday 11 February 2005 01:35, Frank J. Laszlo wrote: Anthony Atkielski wrote: Frank Laszlo writes: Yes, Process colors being 4 plates, but rendered properly, it could be less. All process printing requires four (or six) colors. That's what process means. The current logo as it is shown on freebsd.org, COULD be printed on 2 plates, as a 2 color job. those colors being black and red. Possibly. It would still look odd, though. This isnt an issue with todays modern digital 4 color presses such as the iGen3. It's an issue with any press. Digital presses have less trouble with registration, but they aren't any better at getting the line frequencies higher. Indeed, normal offset provides higher frequencies. It has no problem with registration if ran by a qualified operator. Now if you are a 80's or 90's printer using an old heidelburg 2 color press, sure.. registration is very difficult when dealing with small print and screens. What sort of printer would FreeBSD best be able to afford? Well, I'm not going into budget issues, but yes you have a point here. I am open to quote any print job if the FreeBSD Foundation so chooses to do official corporate print work. e.g. letterhead, business cards, printed manuals, etc.. I would of course give my normal discount as I do with any other non-profit organizations. Furthermore, anyone with experience in the modern printing world knows that getting high quality (and affordable) printed artwork on a small piece is very simple when using the right equipment. It doesn't matter what equipment you use. Small artwork with lots of fine detail reduces poorly; if it contains halftones, it reduces even more poorly. Who says it has to be small? and how small are you talking for print work? on a CD? thats not very small IMHO. One should be able to attain excellent quality at that size. I consider small artwork to be 1in. I've done several of these type of jobs on the iGen3 we have here at my office. Anyways, this is WAY off from the original post, So I end it with that. Actually it is highly relevant, since a key reason for developing a simple logo is to make it easy to display and print. Getting back to the point at hand, the beastie is nothing more than a mascot. plain and simple. But people are talking like there will be no more beastie representing FreeBSD. I dont think this is the point. Also, whoever started that petition needs to actually get some inside information other than a non publicized (sp?) anouncement. The true intention of this logo contest is likely to give more of a corporate identity to freebsd as a whole. I am now done with this thread. Once again, I will end it. (hopefully) :) Kind Regards, Frank Laszlo ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- By reading this mail you agree to the following: using or giving out the email address and any other info of the author of this email is strictly forbidden. By acting against this agreement the author of this mail will take possible legal actions against the abuse. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!
Frank J. Laszlo writes: Who says it has to be small? Business cards and letterheads say that. Logos are often reproduced at very small sizes, even on large documents. They often appear in a corner or at the bottom of a page. Logos are not used in place of cover art, but they often are a _part_ of cover art. Getting back to the point at hand, the beastie is nothing more than a mascot. plain and simple. But people are talking like there will be no more beastie representing FreeBSD. I dont think this is the point. What surprises me is that people care so much. It's the software that's important, not the cartoon character that represents it. It makes me wonder what sorts of priorities people have. I'd prefer that people worry more about software quality, and less about pretty pictures. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
