RE: and the winner is...
a. I am hoping to see this fixed in 6.x b. This I agree with. As a desktop client FreeBSD still needs work. c. sysutils/portaudit -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott W Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 11:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: and the winner is... Mario Carugno wrote: I there, i was trying freebsd for a while, and comparing it against debian/linux. The winner was Debian by far... Freebsd could be stable, but it is not faster... and Debian is far much more 'usable'. Freebsd package installation is very laborious compared with Debian's apt system. I have to search in each CD, know dependences,... X configuration is hard too when the autodetected configuration doesn't works... I think fbsd is good, but needs some user facilities. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lame. Care to actually _back up_ your statement with something substantial? cvsup and ports is the best package management system I've seen yet in it generally 'just works right.' That statement is made with 12 years of Linux experience, as well as Solaris and other *nixes. For a server system, FreeBSD is really hard to beat. The closest might be Gentoo, but their portage (based on BSD ports) system isn't as consistently stable as BSD ports (meaning things break more often). As it's not a _great_ idea IMO to even have build tools (gcc and toolchain) on a production server, it's not a bad idea to have a seperate build host somewhere, but that applies equally to any system, and you also have the option to go with binary packages. Let me know how the following goes for you with Deb or other Linux distro besides gentoo- install PHP or apache with _only_ the options that you want/need. Oh rightyou can't, without compiling from source, at which point you've lost your 'package management.' Oops? Read the Handbook, try to get enough of a clue to understand it, use it for a month, and then come back with a statement you can back up. Otherwisepiss off. The only 'real' gripes I've got with FreeBSD are: a. thread performance - from what I've seen, still lags behind Linux (mysql benchmarks show this to be true at leat for 5-STABLE). b. desktop BSD 'out of box experience'- mixed, as BSD is primarily a server OS, but with 'roll your own' capabilities...oh, and there are now two 'desktop BSD' type projects. So not really a gripe, but can see someone complaining about it a bit, if they don't find the Dekstop BSD project. c. security patch notification system (may exist now?). Yes, you can get emails from the security ML, but now quite the same as for example, 'smpatch analyze' on Solaris 9/10. This could be argued that's _exactly_ what rel-STABLE is, however, so again, not a real issue, although a user friendly (for people using as a desktop OS) tool would be of benefit. Geeze, compared to my gripes against Linux and *nix distros. these are really pretty damned trivial. If thread performance comes up to par with Linux, FreeBSD has a very good chance of becoming my choice for 'personal *nix' (ie, my primary workstation, laptops, etc) over Gentoo. Scott ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: and the winner is...
Mario Carugno wrote: I there, i was trying freebsd for a while, and comparing it against debian/linux. The winner was Debian by far... Freebsd could be stable, but it is not faster... and Debian is far much more 'usable'. Freebsd package installation is very laborious compared with Debian's apt system. I have to search in each CD, know dependences,... X configuration is hard too when the autodetected configuration doesn't works... I think fbsd is good, but needs some user facilities. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lame. Care to actually _back up_ your statement with something substantial? cvsup and ports is the best package management system I've seen yet in it generally 'just works right.' That statement is made with 12 years of Linux experience, as well as Solaris and other *nixes. For a server system, FreeBSD is really hard to beat. The closest might be Gentoo, but their portage (based on BSD ports) system isn't as consistently stable as BSD ports (meaning things break more often). As it's not a _great_ idea IMO to even have build tools (gcc and toolchain) on a production server, it's not a bad idea to have a seperate build host somewhere, but that applies equally to any system, and you also have the option to go with binary packages. Let me know how the following goes for you with Deb or other Linux distro besides gentoo- install PHP or apache with _only_ the options that you want/need. Oh rightyou can't, without compiling from source, at which point you've lost your 'package management.' Oops? Read the Handbook, try to get enough of a clue to understand it, use it for a month, and then come back with a statement you can back up. Otherwisepiss off. The only 'real' gripes I've got with FreeBSD are: a. thread performance - from what I've seen, still lags behind Linux (mysql benchmarks show this to be true at leat for 5-STABLE). b. desktop BSD 'out of box experience'- mixed, as BSD is primarily a server OS, but with 'roll your own' capabilities...oh, and there are now two 'desktop BSD' type projects. So not really a gripe, but can see someone complaining about it a bit, if they don't find the Dekstop BSD project. c. security patch notification system (may exist now?). Yes, you can get emails from the security ML, but now quite the same as for example, 'smpatch analyze' on Solaris 9/10. This could be argued that's _exactly_ what rel-STABLE is, however, so again, not a real issue, although a user friendly (for people using as a desktop OS) tool would be of benefit. Geeze, compared to my gripes against Linux and *nix distros. these are really pretty damned trivial. If thread performance comes up to par with Linux, FreeBSD has a very good chance of becoming my choice for 'personal *nix' (ie, my primary workstation, laptops, etc) over Gentoo. Scott ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: and the winner is...
Mario Carugno ha scritto: I there, i was trying freebsd for a while, and comparing it against debian/linux. The winner was Debian by far... Freebsd could be stable, but it is not faster... and Debian is far much more 'usable'. Freebsd package installation is very laborious compared with Debian's apt system. I have to search in each CD, know dependences,... X configuration is hard too when the autodetected configuration doesn't works... I think fbsd is good, but needs some user facilities. Maybe do you like the flame but this is really bad place for it. Enjoy what you like. Simone ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: and the winner is...
Mario Carugno wrote: I there, i was trying freebsd for a while, and comparing it against debian/linux. The winner was Debian by far... Freebsd could be stable, but it is not faster... and Debian is far much more 'usable'. Freebsd package installation is very laborious compared with Debian's apt system. I have to search in each CD, know dependences,... X configuration is hard too when the autodetected configuration doesn't works... I think fbsd is good, but needs some user facilities. Depends on what you need. Iv. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: and the winner is...
In the last episode (Sep 01), Mario Carugno said: I there, i was trying freebsd for a while, and comparing it against debian/linux. The winner was Debian by far... Freebsd could be stable, but it is not faster... and Debian is far much more 'usable'. Freebsd package installation is very laborious compared with Debian's apt system. I have to search in each CD, know dependences,... Have you never used pkg_add -r ? You shouldn't need to touch a cd after the base system is installed. -- Dan Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: and the winner is...
Mario Carugno wrote: I there, i was trying freebsd for a while, and comparing it against debian/linux. The winner was Debian by far... Freebsd could be stable, but it is not faster... and Debian is far much more 'usable'. Freebsd package installation is very laborious compared with Debian's apt system. I have to search in each CD, know dependences,... X configuration is hard too when the autodetected configuration doesn't works... I think fbsd is good, but needs some user facilities. i have never used a cd after a freesbd install?? and debian has an 8 disc download, i found myself changing cds for an hour, only to see X fail on my flat pannel.(sarge) had to configure manually i like apt-get as well, but ports/pkg_* are nearly identical, when it comes to dependency handling, usability why do i have the feeling you chose 'Expert Install' oh, well, enjoy... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: and the winner is...
On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 18:19:15 -0300 Mario Carugno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I there, i was trying freebsd for a while, and comparing it against debian/linux. The winner was Debian by far... Freebsd could be stable, but it is not faster... and Debian is far much more 'usable'. Freebsd package installation is very laborious compared with Debian's apt system. I have to search in each CD, know dependences,... X configuration is hard too when the autodetected configuration doesn't works... I think fbsd is good, but needs some user facilities. I am bored, so I bite ^_^ Use pkg_add -r. Make cvsup and portupgrade the first installed, use them. I only ever grab the boot only CD. The autodetected one does not work? Odd, out side of crappy hardware I've not seen this before. X -configure has all ways worked nicely for me except for one system with a weird video chip. As far as speed goes, I've honestly have never had a problem with it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: and the winner is...
I there, i was trying freebsd for a while, and comparing it against debian/linux. The winner was Debian by far... Freebsd could be stable, but it is not faster... and Debian is far much more 'usable'. Freebsd package installation is very laborious compared with Debian's apt system. I have to search in each CD, know dependences,... X configuration is hard too when the autodetected configuration doesn't works... I think fbsd is good, but needs some user facilities. You are going to need a stronger arguement against FreeBSD than ..needs some user facilities. It appears to me that you haven't used either for very long and therefore do not have much of a right to say which is better or worse, no offense. If you went into more detail with your reasoning then I believe you would be taken more seriously, but you fail to show me an legitimate reason that I should install debian over BSD on my next box. As far as installation being too difficult, I downloaded the debian distro and installed it on my laptop. I had more difficulty trying to get it to work than I ever had using FreeBSD. Also, lets not forget that easier doesn't always mean better. I know several people that use Linux over FreeBSD due to how they claim it is easier configure and setup, however I don't find FreeBSD that difficult to setup, especially in comparison to Linux. I believe that once you have become familiar with the process and worked with it, setting up and securing BSD is not all that difficult and is well worth the effort (in my opinion). Bow Sineath Class of 2006, the Citadel [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: and the winner is...
On 9/1/05, Mario Carugno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The winner was Debian by far... I believe you should say that the winner was debian FOR ME IN MY SITUATION. My use for freebsd is for a low-maintenance i'net gateway for my small office, which can range anywhere from four to ten machines of various OSs. I need only a CLI, accessible through SSH, NAT and firewalling capabilities. Yes, you can get this with other OSs, but security was primarily my intent. So...the winner was FreeBSD by far. =) -- Isaac Grover, Owner Quality Computer Services of River Falls, Wisconsin Computer Consulting, Networking, Maintenance, and more. Commercial and Residential Inquiries Welcomed. Web: http://www.qcs-rf.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: and the winner is...
On Sep 2, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Isaac Grover wrote: On 9/1/05, Mario Carugno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The winner was Debian by far... I believe you should say that the winner was debian FOR ME IN MY SITUATION. My use for freebsd is for a low-maintenance i'net gateway for my small office, which can range anywhere from four to ten machines of various OSs. I need only a CLI, accessible through SSH, NAT and firewalling capabilities. Yes, you can get this with other OSs, but security was primarily my intent. So...the winner was FreeBSD by far. =) Who cares about what is the best in any situation? This type of talk is for flamers and n00bs, and as adults I would hope that we have progressed on from this behavior. One should realize that given any situation there is a set tool which best helps for solving each situation, so regardless of which OS, depending on the situation and what needs to be solved/ accomplished the proper tool should be used as the proper solution to any problem. End of story. -Garrett ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: and the winner is...
On Thu, Sep 01, 2005 at 06:19:15PM -0300, Mario Carugno wrote:
I there, i was trying freebsd for a while, and comparing it
against debian/linux. The winner was Debian by far... Freebsd
could be stable, but it is not faster... and Debian is far much
more 'usable'. Freebsd package installation is very laborious
compared with Debian's apt system. I have to search in each CD,
know dependences,... X configuration is hard too when the
autodetected configuration doesn't works... I think fbsd is good,
but needs some user facilities.
Uhh, interesting. Doesn't seem appropriate for freebsd-*questions*,
though, as you don't seem to really ask anything at all.
Could we move this thread to one of the lists better suited for it?
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Thanks...
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o--{ Will Maier }--o
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