Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard

[Ralf Quint]

On 12/31/2021 9:19 AM, Wilhelm Spiegl wrote:

mkeyb supports a lot of keyboard layouts e.g. "gr" for german etc.
FreeDOS uses the set lang= xy variable for many country related things.
but the gr etc. in mkeyb xy differ from this variable that is used for 
nls, help etc.


Would it be possible to change the country characters in mkeyb e.g. 
german from "gr" to "de" and so on so that it is possible to say 
"mkeyb %lang%" to get the correct keyboard layout in FD without big 
problems?

This would be a great help for the users and for Jerome.


Well, no,not really.

As Tom already mentioned, those keyboard layout codes have always been 
that way, since the first version of DOS that had a KEYB "driver". And 
for compatibility reasons, this should be the same.


The reason for GR instead of DE is that all those abbreviations are 
derived from the English language, as in "GeRmany", not "DEutschland". 
Hasn't been a problem though either, as there was, at least not 
officially AFAIK, a GReek KEYB option. For the same reason it is SP for 
SPain (not ESpana), HU for Hungary (not Magyar), though they chose SU 
for SUomi  instead of FI for Finland (not sure if that was a stab 
against the then still existing Soviet Union, LOL).


You also need to understand that the keyboard layout codes are NOT 
identical with the "language" being used (for example in translations), 
as for example both US and UK are for different keyboard layouts used in 
the US of A and the United Kingdom, even though they both are supposed 
to be English Speaking countries. Same goes for FR and CF, which defines 
the keyboard layout for FRance and French Canada respectively, though 
the on screen language in both cases is French. Or PO and BT for 
POrtugal and BRazil, which both use (some form of) Portuguese.


I don't have an easy way to test this right now in any Windows version, 
but I am pretty sure that a similar distinction exists there as well, 
though those settings are there made within a GUI tool not by using 
command line parameters line in DOS...


Ralf



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Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard

[thraex]

On 31.12.2021 21:02, tom ehlert wrote:
> 
> However I react supercritically when people that never contributed
> anything suggest that I contribute some  work.

Hi Tom,

I'm a newbie around here, I don't know much of the history of this
mailing-list. Also, I didn't contribute much, and certainly not code.
But Willi helped me quite a lot by spending hours fixing stuff in my
translations, spotting mistakes or erroneous tags. All this to say that
from my point of view, he was very helpful and without him, there
wouldn't be a decent French version of the HTML help (and probably no
German version either) among other things.

Happy new year to all :)


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Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard

[Jerome Shidel]

> On Dec 31, 2021, at 1:02 PM, tom ehlert  wrote:

> However I react supercritically when people that never contributed
> anything suggest that I contribute some  work.

I hope you are not suggesting the Wilhelm does not contribute.

While he may not write code, he has put a lot of work into cleaning up the HTML 
help,
provided numerous translations and translation fixes and has done a lot of 
release and
software testing. My guess that just over the past several months, he has 
contributed 
dozens or even hundreds of hours of his time helping improve FreeDOS. 

Thank you William for all the work you do. 

Jerome

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Re: mkey keyboard

[Wilhelm Spiegl]

 
 first of all i really think about paying money, if yes, you hear from me.as a second, yes, i never learned programming because my parents were not rich.As a second, I am rather engaged in Freedos. If you have a closer look to the english and german help files you will find out that i investigated hundreds of hours to give it a unique look and feel, to coordinate it with french and spanish help that were translated by others, checked htmlhelp for bugs and uncorrect hyperlinks,  made it as simple as possible to add text in other languages etc. etc. Maybe there are translation mistakes, but help consists of more than 100 files per language.How much money would you accept for correcting for one of these companies?I would send you a bank confirmation if you want before you start.Willi--Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit mail.com Mail gesendet.Am 31.12.21, 19:19 schrieb tom ehlert :

   > of course you could try to motivate me by offering some money; estimated time
   > requested (with some error correcting back and forth between me and turkish users)
   > is ~ 5-10 hours, depending in specific turkish requirements.
   
   I forgot to add:
   I don't care about money (somehow I manage have enough of it).
   
   However I react supercritically when people that never contributed
   anything suggest that I contribute some work.
   
   so it would be absolutely fine if instead of giving money (as a
   replacement for time to
   
   Transparency International
   Medecins sans frontieres
   or similar uncontroversial organisation
   Patreon donations to Freedos don't count.
   
   
   Tom
   
   
   
   
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Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard

[tom ehlert]

> of course you could try to motivate me by offering some money; estimated time
> requested (with some error correcting back and forth between me and turkish 
> users)
> is ~ 5-10 hours, depending in specific turkish requirements.

I forgot to add:
I don't care about money (somehow I manage have enough of it).

However I react supercritically when people that never contributed
anything suggest that I contribute some  work.

so it would be absolutely fine if instead of giving money (as a
replacement for time to

   Transparency International
   Medecins sans frontieres
   or similar uncontroversial organisation
   Patreon donations to Freedos don't count.


Tom




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Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard

[tom ehlert]

Hi,

> mkeyb supports a lot of keyboard layouts e.g. "gr" for german etc.
> FreeDOS uses the set lang= xy variable for many country related things.
> but the gr etc. in mkeyb xy differ from this variable that is used for nls, 
> help etc.

> Would it be possible to change the country characters in mkeyb e.g.
> german from "gr" to "de" and so on so that it is possible to say
> "mkeyb %lang%" to get the correct keyboard layout in FD without big problems?

absolutely.


however (m)KEYB GR has been the way to call it for ages.


and it should also be possible for the new users to implement
something like

set KEYBLANG=%LANG%

if %KEYBLANG%==DE set KEYBLANG=GR
...
mKEYB %KEYBLANG%



> This would be a great help for the users and for Jerome.
> If this is not possible for compatibility reasons with other OSes,
> e.g. M$, could you create a modified version, e.g. fdkeyb or something like 
> this?
I have definitively no intention to do this. they change above is
trivial.



> A second proposal, would it be possible to add a turkish keyboard
> support? Of course only if this is possible. If not, simply forget
> it. As you can see the number of turkish users increases. I am sure
> one of the turkish boys can inform you about the layout etc.

do you get the concept of 'open source'?

it's about enabling other people to do exactly this change.

why not do it (or motivate someone else) yourself?

of course you could try to motivate me by offering some money; estimated time
requested (with some error correcting back and forth between me and turkish 
users)
is ~ 5-10 hours, depending in specific turkish requirements.



> Thank you for reading and thinking about this.
 Thank you for reading and thinking about this.

 Tom



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[thraex]

On 31.12.2021 15:32, Jerome Shidel wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>> On Dec 31, 2021, at 5:03 AM, Emir SARI via Freedos-devel
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I have been making the final tests for the installer in Turkish, and
>> have some questions below.
>>
>> Also, the installation process seems to be pretty slow on QEMU. I have
>> used qemu-system-i386 -m 32m -drive
>> file=drivec.img,media=disk,format=raw -drive
>> file=FD13LIVE.iso,media=cdrom -boot order=d command. Any suggestions
>> for improving the speed are welcome.

I have the same problem with AQEMU, it's really slow compared to
VirtualBox (and I couldn't get the network to work) and the mouse
pointer moves very fast, it's hard to control. But it has PC speaker
emulation that VirtualBox seems to lack, which is nice.

My command line parameters are:
/usr/bin/qemu-system-x86_64 \
-monitor stdio \
-soundhw pcspk \
-k fr \
-machine accel=kvm \
-m 128 \
-cdrom /home/tizizi/DEV0LIVE.iso \
-hda /home/tizizi/.aqemu/RC5_HDA.img \
-boot order=adc,menu=on \
-net nic \
-net user \
-rtc base=localtime \
-name "RC5"

> While the installer (FDI) is not fast, the main issue is your whole VM
> is really slow. I could even see the initial boot menu drawing each
> line. I think most of the “slowness” your experiencing is video related.
> You really want to enable some sort of acceleration. Jim has shared his
> invocation of QEMU a couple times. I think the command line may be
> longer than "War and Piece". 
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/36905969/
> 

On Ubuntu 20.04.3, I'm getting

$ qemu-system-i386 -name FreeDOS -machine
pc-i440fx-4.1,accel=kvm,usb=off,dump-guest-core=off -cpu host -m 64
-overcommit mem-lock=off -no-user-config -nodefaults -rtc
base=utc,driftfix=slew -no-hpet -boot menu=on,strict=on -device qxl-vga
-display sdl -device sb16 -device adlib -hda /home/tizizi/freedos.img
-cdrom /home/tizizi/DEV0LIVE.iso -sandbox
on,obsolete=deny,elevateprivileges=deny,spawn=deny,resourcecontrol=deny
-msg timestamp=on
2021-12-31T13:52:11.070315Z qemu-system-i386: Display 'sdl' is not
available.

when I use Jim's invocation, of which I barely understood less than half
of the switches... So VirtualBox it is, for now.

>> I would appreciate any help (especially Jerome and thraex) :). I see
>> that thraex already made some corrections (thank you!).

You're welcome. If I can be useful in anyway regarding translations,
feel free to send an e-mail. In all cases, I'll keep an eye on this list.

> No problem. :-)
> 
> thraex has done a great job translating. He has also probably learned
> more about GitHub, The Installer and V8Power Tools than he every thought
> possible (or every wanted to either). :-)

:-)


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[Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard

[Wilhelm Spiegl]

 
 Hi,this remembers me to something I wanted to post in the near time.first of all a happy new year and health to everyone in this group.now my wish: (Tom, keep calm)mkeyb supports a lot of keyboard layouts e.g. "gr" for german etc.FreeDOS uses the set lang= xy variable for many country related things.but the gr etc. in mkeyb xy differ from this variable that is used for nls, help etc.Would it be possible to change the country characters in mkeyb e.g. german from "gr" to "de" and so on so that it is possible to say "mkeyb %lang%" to get the correct keyboard layout in FD without big problems?This would be a great help for the users and for Jerome.If this is not possible for compatibility reasons with other OSes, e.g. M$, could you create a modified version, e.g. fdkeyb or something like this?A second proposal, would it be possible to add a turkish keyboard support? Of course only if this is possible. If not, simply forget it. As you can see the number of turkish users increases. I am sure one of the turkish boys can inform you about the layout etc.Thank you for reading and thinking about this.CheersWilli--Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit mail.com Mail gesendet.Am 31.12.21, 17:03 schrieb Emir SARI via Freedos-devel :

  Hello,
   
   > Your welcome.
   > 
   > If your on an Intel based Mac, I recommend using VirtualBox. It’s free, fairly easy to use and works well enough. 
   > 
   > Although, if you scale the display to something other than %100, it can be sluggish. But, that probably has a lot to do with the model of Mac and it’s video card.
   
   VirtualBox is convenient, but I don’t like the fact that it puts all its tentacles all around the system. QEMU is more compact. :)
   
   In the meantime, I’ve observed a critical omission in the Turkish FreeCOM translations; the prompt reply keys were never translated. I was surprised to see that I could not get out of the drive letter error, only to see that it was not there.
   
   I have fixed this, and improved some other error messages in this[1] commit.
   
   Can we please put this in a last minute FreeCOM release? It will be a real bummer to ship it with this error. I am really sorry that I notice this now this late.
   
   Best regards,
   Emir
   
   [1] https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls/pull/84/commits/c8ac0ed6fff0d1da0cd062944da9d86602f21143
   
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Re: [Freedos-devel] PvP Gem game

[TK Chia]

Hello Jim,


Over the last few days, I decided to write a little game, and I wanted
to share it. I call it "PvP Gem" ["Player vs Player Gem"] and it's a
two-player match-3 game.


Thank you for the news! (-:  Incidentally, I am in the middle of adding
more of Open Watcom's  functionality in my libi86 library.  So
hopefully it will soon be possible to compile PvP Gem, with the help of
libi86, under gcc-ia16 or perhaps even the Amsterdam Compiler Kit.

Thank you!

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[Freedos-devel] Fwd: Critical FCOM Error

[Emir SARI via Freedos-devel]

Hello,

> Your welcome.
> 
> If your on an Intel based Mac, I recommend using VirtualBox. It’s free, 
> fairly easy to use and works well enough. 
> 
> Although, if you scale the display to something other than %100, it can be 
> sluggish. But, that probably has a lot to do with the model of Mac and it’s 
> video card.

VirtualBox is convenient, but I don’t like the fact that it puts all its 
tentacles all around the system. QEMU is more compact. :)

In the meantime, I’ve observed a critical omission in the Turkish FreeCOM 
translations; the prompt reply keys were never translated. I was surprised to 
see that I could not get out of the drive letter error, only to see that it was 
not there.

I have fixed this, and improved some other error messages in this[1] commit.

Can we please put this in a last minute FreeCOM release? It will be a real 
bummer to ship it with this error. I am really sorry that I notice this now 
this late.

Best regards,
Emir

[1] 
https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls/pull/84/commits/c8ac0ed6fff0d1da0cd062944da9d86602f21143

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Jerome Shidel]

> 
>> While the installer (FDI) is not fast, the main issue is your whole VM is 
>> really slow. I could even see the initial boot menu drawing each line. I 
>> think most of the “slowness” your experiencing is video related. You really 
>> want to enable some sort of acceleration. Jim has shared his invocation of 
>> QEMU a couple times. I think the command line may be longer than "War and 
>> Piece". 
> 
> Thanks for the link! Some of the commands seem deprecated or removed, but 
> I’ll try to research on this, and being on macOS, KVM acceleration is not 
> present I believe. But, thanks.

Your welcome.

If your on an Intel based Mac, I recommend using VirtualBox. It’s free, fairly 
easy to use and works well enough. 

Although, if you scale the display to something other than %100, it can be 
sluggish. But, that probably has a lot to do with the model of Mac and it’s 
video card.


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Emir SARI via Freedos-devel]

Hello again,

> While the installer (FDI) is not fast, the main issue is your whole VM is 
> really slow. I could even see the initial boot menu drawing each line. I 
> think most of the “slowness” your experiencing is video related. You really 
> want to enable some sort of acceleration. Jim has shared his invocation of 
> QEMU a couple times. I think the command line may be longer than "War and 
> Piece". 

Thanks for the link! Some of the commands seem deprecated or removed, but I’ll 
try to research on this, and being on macOS, KVM acceleration is not present I 
believe. But, thanks.

> I need to make a doc file on “how to make those v8f files”.

I do draw vector fonts, and I believe I can make some nicer bitmap ones as 
well. Please let me know once you are ready to publish info, I’ll have a look.

> I didn’t see any failure messages in the video. 
> 
> But, if you mean just in general… There are only two. One for normal mode and 
> one for advanced mode. 
> See the section starting at line 113 in the english version. 
> https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls/blob/6fe293d50feeb938de3bd8c8c700a53740f2d652/fdi/language/en/FDSETUP.DEF#L113
>  
> 
Thanks, I’ve realised that some failure messages (a couple of lines below would 
not fit properly. Modified as needed.

> First, the installer files can not be in UTF format. 
> 
> Also, Do not modify and submit updated versions of the files on the install 
> media. Most files of the installer files on the install media undergo a 
> little or a lot of modification by the release build environment (RBE). 
> Consider those files compiled executables. Changes need to be made at the 
> source level. 

Understood.

> If I understand what you are asking….
> 
> There are two separate systems in the installer regarding keyboard settings. 
> The first is the Main selection screen. The installer attempts to pre-select 
> the one matching the users language. The number of keyboard selections 
> matches the number of languages the installer itself supports. 
> 
> The second system is slower but allows any number of additional keyboard 
> choices. 
> 
> When looking at the keyboard sources, the distinction is a little clearer. 
> 
> If the installer was an EXE, it would use only one system for selecting 
> keyboards. However being batch based, breaking it into two pieces yields 
> better performance and overall works better.

No, what I meant was purely semantics. For instance, for Brazilian Portuguese, 
it just says Brazil. The same for Denmark, instead of Danish. For French, there 
is a French, and there is French (alternative). I presume one is the AZERTY 
layout, but I am not sure which, that sort of thing. I can just go ahead and 
fix for Turkish, but the others will stand out.

> Although there are translations for FDI-x86, no means is provided at present 
> to automatically change languages. It will be added eventually. But, it is a 
> low priority for me. In the meantime, it can be done manually. 

Ah, okay then. Fair enough.

Best,
Emir

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Jerome Shidel]

Hello,

> On Dec 31, 2021, at 5:03 AM, Emir SARI via Freedos-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have been making the final tests for the installer in Turkish, and have 
> some questions below.
> 
> Also, the installation process seems to be pretty slow on QEMU. I have used 
> qemu-system-i386 -m 32m -drive file=drivec.img,media=disk,format=raw -drive 
> file=FD13LIVE.iso,media=cdrom -boot order=d command. Any suggestions for 
> improving the speed are welcome.

While the installer (FDI) is not fast, the main issue is your whole VM is 
really slow. I could even see the initial boot menu drawing each line. I think 
most of the “slowness” your experiencing is video related. You really want to 
enable some sort of acceleration. Jim has shared his invocation of QEMU a 
couple times. I think the command line may be longer than "War and Piece". 

https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/36905969/ 


> I am also attaching the videos of my installation[1]. I understand that 
> letters with accents and diacritics might shift a little bit, but the Turkish 
> letter ı also seems to shift. It would be nice to improve this a bit.

Yep, it could use a better Turkish font. 

The installer itself needs to repeatedly change fonts and does not use the 
codepage system. It uses vfont and V8F (vfont font files) to accomplish that. 
The V8F files contain only the subset of characters that need to be changed 
from the default character set. That can include the standard ASCII characters 
or not. vfont can load normal FNT files (like those in the GNUFONTS package). 
But, for the installer (and limited space on floppies) it uses the V8F format 
files to cut the size in half or greater. 

I need to make a doc file on “how to make those v8f files”.

Anyhow, that is all maintained at 
https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls/tree/master/fdi/language 


> There is also a small visual glitch before changing the installer language 
> into Turkish (see the video).

Since the installer does not clear the screen it will always be there. 
That mostly goes away with faster video and looks better than everything 
vanishing and reappearing. 

> 
> I will send a patch once I have improved the needed areas.
> 
> Whilst checking, I have noticed that I am not sure about how all the failure 
> messages are handled, I could not find the frame width for it. I guess they 
> are displayed full screen. If so, please ignore.

I didn’t see any failure messages in the video. 

But, if you mean just in general… There are only two. One for normal mode and 
one for advanced mode. 
See the section starting at line 113 in the english version. 
https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls/blob/6fe293d50feeb938de3bd8c8c700a53740f2d652/fdi/language/en/FDSETUP.DEF#L113
 


> 
> There is another issue with the keyboard layout name definition files. I 
> would like to make some corrections, like some countries are defined by their 
> names instead of the language name (e. g. Brazil, Holland, Denmark etc.). 
> Also some layouts are not clear, like which French is the AZERTY one? I want 
> to proceed with the changes but I am not sure how to handle the encoding. I 
> can modify them to UTF-8, and make corrections in all languages, would that 
> be okay? I think we can change all languages before the release. I can 
> proofread Turkish and Russian and send a public patch for everyone to see 
> after changing the languages.

First, the installer files can not be in UTF format. 

Also, Do not modify and submit updated versions of the files on the install 
media. Most files of the installer files on the install media undergo a little 
or a lot of modification by the release build environment (RBE). Consider those 
files compiled executables. Changes need to be made at the source level. 

If I understand what you are asking….

There are two separate systems in the installer regarding keyboard settings. 
The first is the Main selection screen. The installer attempts to pre-select 
the one matching the users language. The number of keyboard selections matches 
the number of languages the installer itself supports. 

The second system is slower but allows any number of additional keyboard 
choices. 

When looking at the keyboard sources, the distinction is a little clearer. 

If the installer was an EXE, it would use only one system for selecting 
keyboards. However being batch based, breaking it into two pieces yields better 
performance and overall works better.

> 
> Also, it was a while ago, but I was also able to start the Jerome’s new 
> installer in Turkish. How to start that and from where? I would like to test 
> that one as well.

New installer? Do you mean the FloppyEdition installer (FDI-x86)?

Although there are translations for FDI-

[Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Emir SARI via Freedos-devel]

Hello everyone,

I have been making the final tests for the installer in Turkish, and have some 
questions below.

Also, the installation process seems to be pretty slow on QEMU. I have used 
qemu-system-i386 -m 32m -drive file=drivec.img,media=disk,format=raw -drive 
file=FD13LIVE.iso,media=cdrom -boot order=d command. Any suggestions for 
improving the speed are welcome.

I am also attaching the videos of my installation[1]. I understand that letters 
with accents and diacritics might shift a little bit, but the Turkish letter ı 
also seems to shift. It would be nice to improve this a bit. There is also a 
small visual glitch before changing the installer language into Turkish (see 
the video).

I will send a patch once I have improved the needed areas.

Whilst checking, I have noticed that I am not sure about how all the failure 
messages are handled, I could not find the frame width for it. I guess they are 
displayed full screen. If so, please ignore.

There is another issue with the keyboard layout name definition files. I would 
like to make some corrections, like some countries are defined by their names 
instead of the language name (e. g. Brazil, Holland, Denmark etc.). Also some 
layouts are not clear, like which French is the AZERTY one? I want to proceed 
with the changes but I am not sure how to handle the encoding. I can modify 
them to UTF-8, and make corrections in all languages, would that be okay? I 
think we can change all languages before the release. I can proofread Turkish 
and Russian and send a public patch for everyone to see after changing the 
languages.

Also, it was a while ago, but I was also able to start the Jerome’s new 
installer in Turkish. How to start that and from where? I would like to test 
that one as well.

I would appreciate any help (especially Jerome and thraex) :). I see that 
thraex already made some corrections (thank you!).

Once the issues are resolved, I will send a patch.

Happy new year to everyone!
Best regards,
Emir

[1] 
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/4aa0a35db5a58a794c82a588448bb11f20211231093146/527256527e415ca82339a3073feea36820211231093235/4b975c


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