Re: [Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Florian Xaver]

Yes, thank you very much! FreeDOS has a great himem and emm386!
bye
  flo

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:05:12 +0200, Jim Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Micheal, if you're ever in Minneapolis, I will definitely buy you a
 beer.  It's been great having you on the list.  I love reading your
 emails with the biting humor.  It's great!  You keep things from getting
 dull.

 Seriously, you're a great developer, and we will miss you.   You've
 contributed a lot to FreeDOS.

 -jh



 Blair Campbell wrote:
 It's sad to see you leaving Michael, but thanks for all the wonderful
 work, and the humour along the way.  The next maintainer has big shoes
 to fill :-).

 On 8/19/06, Michael Devore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

snip






-- 
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[Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Michael Devore]

At 02:00 PM 8/21/2006 -0500, I wrote:
Okay, here's where we have a fundamental conflict.  It's also causing
problems with FDAPM and WARMBOOT options, perhaps other FDAPM options.  It
is the difference between ALTBOOT and NOALTBOOT options in EMM386.

Incidentally, if anyone happens to know why the heck FDAPM cares about 
ALTBOOT, that might be useful knowledge, as well.


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[Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Michael Devore]

At 09:40 PM 8/21/2006 +0200, Bernd Blaauw wrote:
EMM386 already has the ability to detect Vmware (some magic backport),
so EMM386 can set the proper option (be it ALTBOOT or NOALTBOOT) default
for VMware. The detection ability has been used to exclude some UMB
range previously (and might still be)

Yeah, Eric wanted me to tie ALTBOOT defaults to that VMware code.  But I 
don't know of any way to reliably detect Qemu and Ensemble.  Plus whatever 
number of other applications have problems with it.

I'll have a chance to check the port thing in an hour or two, see if Qemu 
and Ensemble work.  If I can get those two working with the ALTBOOT code, 
that will be sufficient to make me reset the default back.

At this rate, I'll be on the list until Christmas.  Hippie love is already 
beginning to fade.



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[Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Michael Devore]

At 09:41 PM 8/21/2006 +0200, Aitor Santamaría wrote:
  int 15/4f is only supported on AT+ style maschines, but this should be
  true for anything with 386+ CPU's

For the rare cases in which this should not happen,
KEYB xx /9
does install such handler for int15h (as the rest of KEYB is also
based in the same principle).
There would remain the problem of loading EMM AFTER KEYB, but I've
always wondered why, at 0 cost, EMM386 cannot be loaded from
commandline.

You could and can, it's just not officially supported now because of all 
the possible effects and potential incompatibilities that making it not 
first in line at known startup state would introduce.  Look at how hard it 
is to keep everything happy even with those conditions present.


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Aitor Santamaría]

Hello Michael,

Thanks for that good piece of work. Besides these late fixings, you
did quite a lot of quite great follow-up to Tom's EMM386 (port to NASM
/ new UPX are my two favourite).
All the best for whatever else you will be doing, in the times of
WinXP+ I am afraid that technical thourough computer knowledge is a
treasure in extinction. We'll miss you here :)

Thanks!
Aitor

PS: Can some charitable soul upload the new EMM/HIMEM to ibiblio? I
continue not to be able to acceed Michael's FTP.


2006/8/20, Michael Devore [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Uploaded to ftp://ftp.devoresoftware.com/downloads/emm386/ are the files
 emmx225.zip, EMM386 2.25 and HIMEM version 3.25 memory manager, mostly
 executable files; and emms225.zip, source code files.

 This release of EMM386 and HIMEM works around a bug in some BIOS chips
 which affects HIMEM, improves compatibility with virtual environments and
 Ensemble/GEOS automatically without requiring manual addition of options,
 and adds an advanced NODISABLEA20 option to EMM386 by popular demand.

 Read on dear reader, if you dare...

 So that no one can feel neglected or ignored, I'm adding credits to each
 change remark.

 Per recent discussion in freedos-devel, there exists a BIOS which appears
 to corrupt stack values in a nasty way.  HIMEM now works around this.  All
 hail Tom Ehlert.  The A20 BIOS test was also moved from its front of the
 line position to follow other tests since it's not 100% reliable.  All hail
 Tom.  All hail Norbert.

 EMM386's NOALTBOOT option is now the default.  This doesn't change how it
 works, it just means it's always there unless you use ALTBOOT to inhibit
 it.  The default change was made because several virtual environments would
 have horrible keyboarding problems such as missing, doubled, or
 case-switched keys unless NOALTBOOT was active -- Qemu and VMware, I'm
 looking at you.  Also, Ensemble with GEOS required the option to not crash,
 now GEOS people don't have to remember to manually put it in their
 CONFIG.  I don't think anything depends on the previous ALTBOOT default, so
 we should be fine.  All hail Eric Auer and me.

 CR3 is explicitly forced to flush when using MMIO access outside of the
 standard memory address map.  Frankly I'm not sure this is ever needed, but
 I can't prove it's not, and there may be a rare case where it's
 needed.  Better safe than sorry.  All hail Japheth.

 By multiple request, a NODISABLEA20 option was added to EMM386.  It forces
 EMM386 to never allow A20 to be disabled via its global and local disable
 A20 routines.  All hail Tom, Japheth, and Eric.  Although addition of the
 new option is technically in violation of the hard freeze rules, I received
 a special dispensation from the Pope, umm, no that was Pope Leo X to the
 future Pope Clement VII.  I keep mixing those Popes up with FreeDOS.  OK, I
 received permission to add the option at this late date from one of the
 FreeDOS 1.0 release architects.  Honestly and truly.

 For the impending FreeDOS 1.0 release, and the person without whom there
 would be no all hail's to deliver, all hail Jim Hall.  Several times.  In
 unison.

 On the good news front, I am semi-reliably informed via semi-reliable
 gossip that a new or greatly revised EMM386 model is being worked on.  As
 it should be open source, it can easily serve as the next generation of
 EMM386 for FreeDOS, (effectively the 3.x already discussed) following a
 period of testing, stabilization, and user interaction.  While the new
 EMM386 branch may have a different label, that should not be a big concern
 since FreeDOS has already had several private label changes for various
 base and support utilities, and the current EMM386 2.x has matured to its
 final feature set and code base (possibly with minor future tweaks).  I
 feel certain that the developers will allow proper peer review and sustain
 appropriate mechanisms for bug reports and support feedback.  As such,
 integration into the FreeDOS distribution at a future date should be
 relatively painless and welcomed by everyone.  The future looks promising.

 Originally, I was going to sign-off the SourceForge lists and move to
 strictly e-mail consultations on HIMEM/EMM386 issues following release of
 the (presumed) final EMM386 2.x for FreeDOS 1.0, per all my previous
 remarks on retiring from this position, a new maintainer, and quest for a
 commune, but I decided that would be pretty foolish.  I need to stick
 around for a week or so to make sure no catastrophic failures were somehow
 introduced, and that no new critical items such as the BIOS bug need to be
 addressed at the last minute.  Plus, I'm still helping out a couple of
 people with issues that may be due to FreeDOS, memory managers, or
 something entirely different.  So, you can't scrape me off the FreeDOS shoe
 quite yet.  Soon, though.

 Let us all hope that the latest FreeDOS 1.0 test release, this addition,
 and everything else look so good that the final 1.0 release 

Re: [Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Arkady V.Belousov]

Hi!

19-Авг-2006 18:28 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Devore) wrote to
freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net:

MD Uploaded to ftp://ftp.devoresoftware.com/downloads/emm386/ are the files
MD emmx225.zip, EMM386 2.25 and HIMEM version 3.25 memory manager, mostly
MD executable files; and emms225.zip, source code files.

  :(

1. Name scheme not changed (ie., when browsing directory, emmx208.zip comes
   in between emms225.zip and emmx225.zip).
2. patch (source\emm386\build\emm-bld.dif) isn't updated, so applying it to
   2.25 sources makes some mess...

BTW, Michael, what was prevent you to integrate patch directly? It doesn't
changes generated code (thus, not breaks anything). And build system also
replace anyway not working current files (which even you not use for
compilation, because was forced to change/fix it).

MD On the good news front, I am semi-reliably informed via semi-reliable
MD gossip that a new or greatly revised EMM386 model is being worked on.  As

 May you share with us these gossip? Who, when, which model?

MD it should be open source, it can easily serve as the next generation of
MD EMM386 for FreeDOS, (effectively the 3.x already discussed) following a
MD period of testing, stabilization, and user interaction.  While the new

[...]
MD the (presumed) final EMM386 2.x for FreeDOS 1.0, per all my previous
MD remarks on retiring from this position, a new maintainer, and quest for a

 :(

MD commune, but I decided that would be pretty foolish.  I need to stick
MD around for a week or so to make sure no catastrophic failures were somehow
[...]
MD something entirely different.  So, you can't scrape me off the FreeDOS shoe
MD quite yet.  Soon, though.

 :)

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Aitor Santamaría]

Hi,

2006/8/20, tom ehlert [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hello Aitor,

  Thanks for that good piece of work.
 yes, indeed.

  Besides these late fixings, you
  did quite a lot of quite great follow-up to Tom's EMM386 (port to NASM
  / new UPX are my two favourite).

 my favorite is VDS and VCPI; port to NASM and UPX is irrelevant compared to
 that

Sorry, I forgot of VCPI, I agree with you. I admit that I ignore the
amount of work that VDS was (I seem to remember some partial support
from you), but I wouldn't say that the port to NASM is negligible.

Aitor

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Bernd Blaauw]

Aitor Santamari'a schreef:
 I haven't tried to compile it after the port to NASM, but I thought
 that was the trick. So how does this work?
   
original sources -- some PERL(?) script -- nasm sources.
run the script yourself, that's the challenge Michael has for us :)

script is called NoMySo or something.

-- 
Efficiency is intelligent lazyness



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Arkady V.Belousov]

Hi!

20-Авг-2006 20:00 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aitor Santamarэa) wrote to
freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net:

 AS from you), but I wouldn't say that the port to NASM is negligible.
 Trick is, that sources are _not_ ported to NASM (explicitly).  :)
AS ?
AS I haven't tried to compile it after the port to NASM, but I thought

 It was never ported to NASM.

AS that was the trick. So how does this work?

 Sources, as previously, compiled by TASM. Michael's makefiles, which he
send to me, also not use NoMySo to assemble through it.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Michael Devore]

At 09:56 PM 8/20/2006 +0400, Arkady V.Belousov wrote:
AS from you), but I wouldn't say that the port to NASM is 
negligible.  Trick is, that sources are _not_ ported to NASM 
(explicitly). :)

Took my machine about 1 minute to convert it, last I checked.  FreeBSD 
apparently likes Nomyso best, it's in one of their distributions, and 
drives the most downloads by far.  Never would have thought that many BSD 
folks cared about converting TASM/MASM - NASM source.



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Arkady V.Belousov]

Hi!

20-Авг-2006 20:24 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bernd Blaauw) wrote to
freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net:

BB script is called NoMySo or something.

 Not My Sources. Excerpt from build.txt:


Build subsystem supports assembling by NASM and TASM and compilation by
Turbo C 2.01, Turbo C++ 1.01, Borland C, MS VC and OpenWatcom - see
CONFIG.B for details. (Though, HIMEM/EMM386 sources are currently ready
only for TASM and Borland compilers. But NoMySo utility from
ftp://ftp.devoresoftware.com/downloads/nomyso/ allows to assemble some
TASM sources, including HIMEM/EMM386, by NASM.)


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Aitor Santamaría]

Sorry, again my problems to acceed Michael's FTP (I wonder why, I've
been using FileZilla, any user/pwwd so that I can try?).
Could someone send it in private to this mail?

Aitor

2006/8/20, Arkady V.Belousov [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi!

 20-Авг-2006 20:24 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bernd Blaauw) wrote to
 freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net:

 BB script is called NoMySo or something.

 Not My Sources. Excerpt from build.txt:

 
 Build subsystem supports assembling by NASM and TASM and compilation by
 Turbo C 2.01, Turbo C++ 1.01, Borland C, MS VC and OpenWatcom - see
 CONFIG.B for details. (Though, HIMEM/EMM386 sources are currently ready
 only for TASM and Borland compilers. But NoMySo utility from
 ftp://ftp.devoresoftware.com/downloads/nomyso/ allows to assemble some
 TASM sources, including HIMEM/EMM386, by NASM.)
 

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Arkady V.Belousov]

Hi!

20--2006 14:15 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Devore) wrote to
freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net:

MD I needed to release 2.25 and you weren't available during that particular
MD time period,

 I _was_ available. But I not see any letters from you in my postbox -
so how you decide, that I was not available?

MD world of HIMEM and EMM386, so here's what we're gonna do.  You give me a
MD updated DIF file

 See attachment (there for archive added extension .txt).

MD and I'll do an in-place change of the ZIPs, reupload them
MD to the ftp site, and CC to Aitor for ibiblio stuff.  All using the same ZIP
MD name.

MD Yes, in-place updates are naughty.  A rebel thing to do.  Doesn't it feel
MD delicious to sneak one past all those authority figures?  We're the
MD underground, dude!  We shall overcome!  I'll await the covert transfer of
MD the DIF from you (maybe you should ROT-encrypt it to make sure no one
MD suspects), then we will implement the final phases of operation Making A
MD DIFference.  Woo hoo!

 Understanding this paragraph gets from me more time, than updating
dif-file. Well, code name operation MAD (Making A DIFference) is a good
name. :)


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Michael Devore]

At 12:03 AM 8/21/2006 +0400, Arkady V.Belousov wrote:
MD I needed to release 2.25 and you weren't available during that particular
MD time period,

  I _was_ available. But I not see any letters from you in my postbox -
so how you decide, that I was not available?

No, I based it on when you said you were around in previous 
conversations.  And the fact that I was going out to do Real Life Things 
and later would simulate and emulate various sleep patterns and didn't have 
time to wait around, stay up, and reply.

Maybe I should look into that new-fangled instant messaging stuff.  Nah, 
it's only been around a couple decades, any day now people will get tired 
of it and it will die out.

MD world of HIMEM and EMM386, so here's what we're gonna do.  You give me a
MD updated DIF file

  See attachment (there for archive added extension .txt).

That didn't seem to work.  Just attach to my private e-mail.


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Michael Devore]

At 09:59 PM 8/20/2006 +0200, Aitor Santamaría wrote:
That works, many thanks!
Would EMM386 be in webspace too? (the obvious /emm386 didn't work)

I'll stick in there somewhere after we make Arkady happy.  Well, happier.


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[Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Michael Devore]

Uploaded to ftp://ftp.devoresoftware.com/downloads/emm386/ are the files 
emmx225.zip, EMM386 2.25 and HIMEM version 3.25 memory manager, mostly 
executable files; and emms225.zip, source code files.

This release of EMM386 and HIMEM works around a bug in some BIOS chips 
which affects HIMEM, improves compatibility with virtual environments and 
Ensemble/GEOS automatically without requiring manual addition of options, 
and adds an advanced NODISABLEA20 option to EMM386 by popular demand.

Read on dear reader, if you dare...

So that no one can feel neglected or ignored, I'm adding credits to each 
change remark.

Per recent discussion in freedos-devel, there exists a BIOS which appears 
to corrupt stack values in a nasty way.  HIMEM now works around this.  All 
hail Tom Ehlert.  The A20 BIOS test was also moved from its front of the 
line position to follow other tests since it's not 100% reliable.  All hail 
Tom.  All hail Norbert.

EMM386's NOALTBOOT option is now the default.  This doesn't change how it 
works, it just means it's always there unless you use ALTBOOT to inhibit 
it.  The default change was made because several virtual environments would 
have horrible keyboarding problems such as missing, doubled, or 
case-switched keys unless NOALTBOOT was active -- Qemu and VMware, I'm 
looking at you.  Also, Ensemble with GEOS required the option to not crash, 
now GEOS people don't have to remember to manually put it in their 
CONFIG.  I don't think anything depends on the previous ALTBOOT default, so 
we should be fine.  All hail Eric Auer and me.

CR3 is explicitly forced to flush when using MMIO access outside of the 
standard memory address map.  Frankly I'm not sure this is ever needed, but 
I can't prove it's not, and there may be a rare case where it's 
needed.  Better safe than sorry.  All hail Japheth.

By multiple request, a NODISABLEA20 option was added to EMM386.  It forces 
EMM386 to never allow A20 to be disabled via its global and local disable 
A20 routines.  All hail Tom, Japheth, and Eric.  Although addition of the 
new option is technically in violation of the hard freeze rules, I received 
a special dispensation from the Pope, umm, no that was Pope Leo X to the 
future Pope Clement VII.  I keep mixing those Popes up with FreeDOS.  OK, I 
received permission to add the option at this late date from one of the 
FreeDOS 1.0 release architects.  Honestly and truly.

For the impending FreeDOS 1.0 release, and the person without whom there 
would be no all hail's to deliver, all hail Jim Hall.  Several times.  In 
unison.

On the good news front, I am semi-reliably informed via semi-reliable 
gossip that a new or greatly revised EMM386 model is being worked on.  As 
it should be open source, it can easily serve as the next generation of 
EMM386 for FreeDOS, (effectively the 3.x already discussed) following a 
period of testing, stabilization, and user interaction.  While the new 
EMM386 branch may have a different label, that should not be a big concern 
since FreeDOS has already had several private label changes for various 
base and support utilities, and the current EMM386 2.x has matured to its 
final feature set and code base (possibly with minor future tweaks).  I 
feel certain that the developers will allow proper peer review and sustain 
appropriate mechanisms for bug reports and support feedback.  As such, 
integration into the FreeDOS distribution at a future date should be 
relatively painless and welcomed by everyone.  The future looks promising.

Originally, I was going to sign-off the SourceForge lists and move to 
strictly e-mail consultations on HIMEM/EMM386 issues following release of 
the (presumed) final EMM386 2.x for FreeDOS 1.0, per all my previous 
remarks on retiring from this position, a new maintainer, and quest for a 
commune, but I decided that would be pretty foolish.  I need to stick 
around for a week or so to make sure no catastrophic failures were somehow 
introduced, and that no new critical items such as the BIOS bug need to be 
addressed at the last minute.  Plus, I'm still helping out a couple of 
people with issues that may be due to FreeDOS, memory managers, or 
something entirely different.  So, you can't scrape me off the FreeDOS shoe 
quite yet.  Soon, though.

Let us all hope that the latest FreeDOS 1.0 test release, this addition, 
and everything else look so good that the final 1.0 release plans for the 
immediate future hold.  PeaceLove, out.


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Compatibility EMM386/HIMEM 2.25 New Release

[Blair Campbell]

It's sad to see you leaving Michael, but thanks for all the wonderful
work, and the humour along the way.  The next maintainer has big shoes
to fill :-).

On 8/19/06, Michael Devore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Uploaded to ftp://ftp.devoresoftware.com/downloads/emm386/ are the files
 emmx225.zip, EMM386 2.25 and HIMEM version 3.25 memory manager, mostly
 executable files; and emms225.zip, source code files.

 This release of EMM386 and HIMEM works around a bug in some BIOS chips
 which affects HIMEM, improves compatibility with virtual environments and
 Ensemble/GEOS automatically without requiring manual addition of options,
 and adds an advanced NODISABLEA20 option to EMM386 by popular demand.

 Read on dear reader, if you dare...

 So that no one can feel neglected or ignored, I'm adding credits to each
 change remark.

 Per recent discussion in freedos-devel, there exists a BIOS which appears
 to corrupt stack values in a nasty way.  HIMEM now works around this.  All
 hail Tom Ehlert.  The A20 BIOS test was also moved from its front of the
 line position to follow other tests since it's not 100% reliable.  All hail
 Tom.  All hail Norbert.

 EMM386's NOALTBOOT option is now the default.  This doesn't change how it
 works, it just means it's always there unless you use ALTBOOT to inhibit
 it.  The default change was made because several virtual environments would
 have horrible keyboarding problems such as missing, doubled, or
 case-switched keys unless NOALTBOOT was active -- Qemu and VMware, I'm
 looking at you.  Also, Ensemble with GEOS required the option to not crash,
 now GEOS people don't have to remember to manually put it in their
 CONFIG.  I don't think anything depends on the previous ALTBOOT default, so
 we should be fine.  All hail Eric Auer and me.

 CR3 is explicitly forced to flush when using MMIO access outside of the
 standard memory address map.  Frankly I'm not sure this is ever needed, but
 I can't prove it's not, and there may be a rare case where it's
 needed.  Better safe than sorry.  All hail Japheth.

 By multiple request, a NODISABLEA20 option was added to EMM386.  It forces
 EMM386 to never allow A20 to be disabled via its global and local disable
 A20 routines.  All hail Tom, Japheth, and Eric.  Although addition of the
 new option is technically in violation of the hard freeze rules, I received
 a special dispensation from the Pope, umm, no that was Pope Leo X to the
 future Pope Clement VII.  I keep mixing those Popes up with FreeDOS.  OK, I
 received permission to add the option at this late date from one of the
 FreeDOS 1.0 release architects.  Honestly and truly.

 For the impending FreeDOS 1.0 release, and the person without whom there
 would be no all hail's to deliver, all hail Jim Hall.  Several times.  In
 unison.

 On the good news front, I am semi-reliably informed via semi-reliable
 gossip that a new or greatly revised EMM386 model is being worked on.  As
 it should be open source, it can easily serve as the next generation of
 EMM386 for FreeDOS, (effectively the 3.x already discussed) following a
 period of testing, stabilization, and user interaction.  While the new
 EMM386 branch may have a different label, that should not be a big concern
 since FreeDOS has already had several private label changes for various
 base and support utilities, and the current EMM386 2.x has matured to its
 final feature set and code base (possibly with minor future tweaks).  I
 feel certain that the developers will allow proper peer review and sustain
 appropriate mechanisms for bug reports and support feedback.  As such,
 integration into the FreeDOS distribution at a future date should be
 relatively painless and welcomed by everyone.  The future looks promising.

 Originally, I was going to sign-off the SourceForge lists and move to
 strictly e-mail consultations on HIMEM/EMM386 issues following release of
 the (presumed) final EMM386 2.x for FreeDOS 1.0, per all my previous
 remarks on retiring from this position, a new maintainer, and quest for a
 commune, but I decided that would be pretty foolish.  I need to stick
 around for a week or so to make sure no catastrophic failures were somehow
 introduced, and that no new critical items such as the BIOS bug need to be
 addressed at the last minute.  Plus, I'm still helping out a couple of
 people with issues that may be due to FreeDOS, memory managers, or
 something entirely different.  So, you can't scrape me off the FreeDOS shoe
 quite yet.  Soon, though.

 Let us all hope that the latest FreeDOS 1.0 test release, this addition,
 and everything else look so good that the final 1.0 release plans for the
 immediate future hold.  PeaceLove, out.


 -
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 easier
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