Re: [Freedos-devel] still can't find the source code

[Ralf Quint via Freedos-devel]

On 5/10/2024 6:45 AM, Green Fog via Freedos-devel wrote:
There you go. The 2 requirements for free dos being a thing are just 
not there. not ease of use. I need to use an antique mail list for 
communication and wiki/documentation. It's absurd and very not 
efficient. I am very busy, and I can't afford the time to download 
each of these packages one by one. That is not how the source code 
should be distributed. Ease of use is none. Documentations are very 
bad. The sites linked to are web 0.1 material. Good documentation and 
know-hows are what drive further development, so I can say free dos is 
dead, and I will not invest more time on it.


Bottom line is that you don't even tried to understand what "DOS" is.


Ralf




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Re: [Freedos-devel] still can't find the source code

[Ralf Quint via Freedos-devel]

On 5/10/2024 7:02 AM, Jim Hall via Freedos-devel wrote:

I'm usually a very nice guy, but I have to call this out:

If there was ever a prime example of how *not* to ask for help, this
email thread was it.


+1


Ralf
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Re: [Freedos-devel] still can't find the source code

[Jim Hall via Freedos-devel]

On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 11:01 AM Steve Nickolas via Freedos-devel
 wrote:
>[..]
> I'm 44 and surmise that I am one of the *younger* regulars on the list, so
> is it really any surprise things are a bit old-fashioned around here?
> (Some of the other old-times probably know what an ignorant little n00blet
> I was when I first showed up here in the late 1990s.)
>

I don't know if you're the youngest on the list, but definitely not
the youngest person to use FreeDOS.

We get a fair number of new FreeDOS users who are at university - so
that's probably 18 years old? I get a lot of these emails, probably
because my email is everywhere (trademark statement, etc). I suspect
these new users discover FreeDOS as part of a computer science course
or an IT/MIS course. That would make sense, because DOS is a simple
operating system that makes it very easy to walk through "how
computers work" : boot the kernel, which reads CONFIG.SYS, start the
command shell, which reads AUTOEXEC.BAT, and you're ready to enter
commands.

That's why when I updated the website last year, I made such an effort
to do several rounds of design .. usability test .. update ..
usability test .. update. The goal was to answer most questions via
the website, without emailing me. My inbox gets less of these
questions now, so I guess it's working. :-)


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Re: [Freedos-devel] still can't find the source code

[Jerome Shidel via Freedos-devel]

On 5/10/24 09:45, Green Fog via Freedos-devel wrote:
There you go. The 2 requirements for free dos being a thing are just 
not there. not ease of use. I need to use an antique mail list for 
communication and wiki/documentation. It's absurd and very not 
efficient. I am very busy, and I can't afford the time to download 
each of these packages one by one. That is not how the source code 
should be distributed.


That statement is funny. on several levels.

FreeDOS is a combination of multiple programs by different authors. Not 
a single program.


Each are their own project. But we mirror all the ones we provide with 
FreeDOS on GitLab for convenience.


The SOURCES are included with the RELEASE. Download the OS and you have 
the SOURCES.


No need to download hundreds of separate packages.

Why would anyone want to want to "check out" all of those sources?

You probably would spend several lifetimes just trying to understand all 
that source code.


Ease of use is none. Documentations are very bad. The sites linked to 
are web 0.1 material. Good documentation and know-hows are what drive 
further development, so I can say free dos is dead, and I will not 
invest more time on it.


No documentation is every good enough.

Recently, I spent several days trying to figure out how to make the 
pin-head sized icons in the FireFox GUI larger on my 4k monitor under 
Linux. You'd think I could not be the only person with that problem. But 
it took me days to get the problem resolved. And I've been using Linux 
for decades!




Calling me a troll and telling me not to talk to me? How old are you? 
That is not very welcoming and very immature. Either way, I am gone.


You start off aggressive, condescending and belligerent.  When help is 
attempted, you spend little to no effort of your own to investigate the 
advice.


Bye. I won't miss you.




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Re: [Freedos-devel] still can't find the source code

[Steve Nickolas via Freedos-devel]

On Fri, 10 May 2024, Green Fog via Freedos-devel wrote:


There you go. The 2 requirements for free dos being a thing are just not
there. not ease of use. I need to use an antique mail list for
communication and wiki/documentation. It's absurd and very not efficient. I
am very busy, and I can't afford the time to download each of these
packages one by one. That is not how the source code should be distributed.
Ease of use is none. Documentations are very bad. The sites linked to are
web 0.1 material. Good documentation and know-hows are what drive further
development, so I can say free dos is dead, and I will not invest more time
on it.

Calling me a troll and telling me not to talk to me? How old are you? That
is not very welcoming and very immature. Either way, I am gone.


ROFLMAO, obvious troll is obvious... Can't even take the time to get the 
name right.


I'm 44 and surmise that I am one of the *younger* regulars on the list, so 
is it really any surprise things are a bit old-fashioned around here? 
(Some of the other old-times probably know what an ignorant little n00blet 
I was when I first showed up here in the late 1990s.)


Trash took itself out.

-uso.


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Re: [Freedos-devel] still can't find the source code

[Piotr Kolasiński via Freedos-devel]

Hi!

I’m rather reader of that list not developer.
It takes me 5 minutes to browse this mail thread and based on what I’ve
read it takes me another 3 minutes to find where is the source code of
command.com alternative named freecom. See here:
https://gitlab.com/FreeDOS/base/freecom

Please remember that FreeDos consists of many different programs which
are alternative implementation of DOS kernel (here kernel.sys) and
tools.

So please read the site materials and use your brain.

Kind Regards
Piotr Kolasinski

On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 09:02:05AM -0500, Jim Hall via Freedos-devel wrote:
> On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 8:46 AM Green Fog via Freedos-devel
>  wrote:
> >
> > There you go. The 2 requirements for free dos being a thing are
> > just not there. not ease of use. I need to use an antique mail
> > list for communication and wiki/documentation. It's absurd
> > and very not efficient. I am very busy, and I can't afford
> > the time to download each of these packages one by one. That
> > is not how the source code should be distributed. Ease of use
> > is none. Documentations are very bad. The sites linked to are
> > web 0.1 material. Good documentation and know-hows are what
> > drive further development, so I can say free dos is dead,
> > and I will not invest more time on it.
> >
> > Calling me a troll and telling me not to talk to me? How old
> > are you? That is not very welcoming and very immature. Either
> > way, I am gone.
> 
> 
> I'm usually a very nice guy, but I have to call this out:
> 
> If there was ever a prime example of how *not* to ask for help, this
> email thread was it.
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] still can't find the source code

[Jim Hall via Freedos-devel]

On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 8:46 AM Green Fog via Freedos-devel
 wrote:
>
> There you go. The 2 requirements for free dos being a thing are
> just not there. not ease of use. I need to use an antique mail
> list for communication and wiki/documentation. It's absurd
> and very not efficient. I am very busy, and I can't afford
> the time to download each of these packages one by one. That
> is not how the source code should be distributed. Ease of use
> is none. Documentations are very bad. The sites linked to are
> web 0.1 material. Good documentation and know-hows are what
> drive further development, so I can say free dos is dead,
> and I will not invest more time on it.
>
> Calling me a troll and telling me not to talk to me? How old
> are you? That is not very welcoming and very immature. Either
> way, I am gone.


I'm usually a very nice guy, but I have to call this out:

If there was ever a prime example of how *not* to ask for help, this
email thread was it.


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[Freedos-devel] still can't find the source code

[Green Fog via Freedos-devel]

There you go. The 2 requirements for free dos being a thing are just not
there. not ease of use. I need to use an antique mail list for
communication and wiki/documentation. It's absurd and very not efficient. I
am very busy, and I can't afford the time to download each of these
packages one by one. That is not how the source code should be distributed.
Ease of use is none. Documentations are very bad. The sites linked to are
web 0.1 material. Good documentation and know-hows are what drive further
development, so I can say free dos is dead, and I will not invest more time
on it.

Calling me a troll and telling me not to talk to me? How old are you? That
is not very welcoming and very immature. Either way, I am gone.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] still can't find the source code

[Jim Hall via Freedos-devel]

*First: it is not good "netiquette" to start a new thread when you are
following up from a previous post. You should have written this as a
reply to your first email.

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 4:50 AM Green Fog via Freedos-devel
 wrote:
>
> I can see the potential of Freedos if these 2 conditions are met:


Your subject line says you still cannot find the source code. Why did
you not click on the link that was suggested to you in the reply? In
my reply last night, I told you exactly where to find the source code.
I also said you can install the source code when you install FreeDOS.

You didn't read the answer to your question, and now you are requiring
"conditions" for FreeDOS. I think you are trolling, so this is my last
reply to you.


> 1, ease of use. Absolutely both for users and developers. Or else who
> is going to use it? or develop more fun and useful applications to
> it. So that means better documentation, easier access to not only the
> source code but also the known-hows on everything. I am able to find
> some source code from github, which only consists of 3.7MB. I am not
> sure how that translates into a 400MB ISO. I can't find any developer
> section. Are we in the matrix?


The "Developer" page that I pointed to in my last reply has a link
called "FreeDOS sources" that points to the FreeDOS source code
archive at GitLab  which is where you'll
find everything. The "Developer" page also has a link called "Kernel
sources" that points to Jeremy's kernel (he's the current maintainer)
at GitHub .

But maybe you found my personal project on GitHub
 that is called 'freedosproject.' I
originally had a different GitHUb username, but I changed to
'freedosproject' so no one else would try to "claim" that username and
confuse things. My personal project has this description:

"Some of the sample programs I write for the FreeDOS channel on
YouTube. For the FreeDOS source code archive instead, visit
https://gitlab.com/freedos;


> 2, Better documentation. The site has a wiki section that is not part
> of the site, and is very inadequate. The official site absolutely needs
> to provide more information on many aspects including the full source
> code if it's available.


When you clicked on the "Read the wiki" link on the FreeDOS website,
did you *read* the page that came up before you ended up on the wiki
website? The page stays up for 15 seconds, and says this:

"We are currently moving the wiki to a new website. Note that we
haven't finished moving everything over, so some links are "red"
because those pages don't exist yet. They'll be there soon."

That page also has a big button you can click to go right to the wiki
at 


Jim


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Re: [Freedos-devel] still can't find the source code

[Jerome Shidel via Freedos-devel]

> On May 8, 2024, at 5:50 AM, Green Fog via Freedos-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> I can see the potential of Freedos if these 2 conditions are met:
> 
> 1, ease of use. Absolutely both for users and developers. Or else who is 
> going to use it? or develop more fun and useful applications to it. So that 
> means better documentation, easier access to not only the source code but 
> also the known-hows on everything. I am able to find some source code from 
> github, which only consists of 3.7MB. I am not sure how that translates into 
> a 400MB ISO. I can't find any developer section. Are we in the matrix?

On the FreeDOS website there was an other button. But to save you the time:

https://gitlab.com/FreeDOS

> 
> 2, Better documentation. The site has a wiki section that is not part of the 
> site, and is very inadequate. The official site absolutely needs to provide 
> more information on many aspects including the full source code if it's 
> available. 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] still can't find the source code

[Jerome Shidel via Freedos-devel]



> On May 8, 2024, at 5:50 AM, Green Fog via Freedos-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> I can see the potential of Freedos if these 2 conditions are met:
> 
> 1, ease of use. Absolutely both for users and developers. Or else who is 
> going to use it? or develop more fun and useful applications to it. So that 
> means better documentation, easier access to not only the source code but 
> also the known-hows on everything. I am able to find some source code from 
> github, which only consists of 3.7MB. I am not sure how that translates into 
> a 400MB ISO. I can't find any developer section. Are we in the matrix?

On the FreeDOS website there was an other button. But to save you the time:

https://gitlab.com/FreeDOS

> 
> 2, Better documentation. The site has a wiki section that is not part of the 
> site, and is very inadequate. The official site absolutely needs to provide 
> more information on many aspects including the full source code if it's 
> available.
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[Freedos-devel] still can't find the source code

[Green Fog via Freedos-devel]

I can see the potential of Freedos if these 2 conditions are met:

1, ease of use. Absolutely both for users and developers. Or else who is
going to use it? or develop more fun and useful applications to it. So that
means better documentation, easier access to not only the source code but
also the known-hows on everything. I am able to find some source code from
github, which only consists of 3.7MB. I am not sure how that translates
into a 400MB ISO. I can't find any developer section. Are we in the matrix?

2, Better documentation. The site has a wiki section that is not part of
the site, and is very inadequate. The official site absolutely needs to
provide more information on many aspects including the full source code if
it's available.
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