Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Travis Siegel]

Not true.

If both of the partitions are primary partitions, and the bootable flag 
is swapped from one to the other, then when one boots, the second will 
be drive d:, and vice versa.  I used to use the fdisk method all the 
time, I dual booted linux, and dos, so I see no reason why it wouldn't 
work with windows and dos as well. Obviously,, I couldn't access the 
linux partition from dos, because it didn't read the linux file system, 
but linux had no trouble seeing the dos partition, and another friend I 
had used dos/windows (as requested in the original post), and that 
worked just fine, he could see both drives no matter which os he booted.


Obviously, I've not tried this in years, but I see no reason why things 
would have changed in this regard.



On 2/11/2022 5:08 PM, Björn Morell wrote:


If you want to access one from the other you cannot as it will be 
hidden, for that to work you need separat drives or the coplcated 
method, if not xfdisk on a bootable floppy or usb will be handy while 
installing.


Den 2022-02-11 kl. 22:14, skrev [GlassNerves] via Freedos-user:

Thanks for the answers guys. I see i have a lot of options.
I don't wanna to install FreeDOS in the same partition of Windows 98 
because this is complicated as hell. I will make two partitions and 
will be using the xfdisk method.


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--- Original Message ---
Em sexta-feira, 11 de fevereiro de 2022 às 2:36 AM, [GlassNerves] 
 escreveu:

Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?

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Re: [Freedos-user] Update FreeDOS Instalation

[Jim Hall]

On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 3:20 PM [GlassNerves] via Freedos-user
 wrote:
>
>
> Is there a way to update old versions of FreeDOS to the new ones with not 
> losing data?
> I have installed version 1.3 RC5 and I'm afraid I'll need to reinstall 
> everything when the final release comes.
>

The advanced installer should be able to do this for you. Boot into
the LiveCD and type:

SETUP ADV



That should put you in the advanced installer, which gives you more
control over what happens.


Jim


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Liam Proven]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 00:28, Bret Johnson  wrote:
>
> Even in Virtual machines, I always set up very small "boot drive" (usually 
> only a few MB) as C:.  It only contains the things required to boot and a few 
> basic utilities (including a simple text editor).

Yep, when I was putting in Windows NT boxes on customers' networks,
that's what I did too. Handy for BIOS reflashing, emergency recovery
and so on. I usually tried to make it big enough to hold the swap file
-- that reduced fragmentation on the NT system drive, and also FAT16's
big clusters make for good swapfile performance (faster than NTFS or
FAT32).


> All of the useful programs are on a separate drive (usually D:, but it 
> depends on the specific environment).  That way I only need to manage one 
> copy of all the programs and can use them consistently no matter how DOS 
> booted.

Good plan.

> The problem with this approach is that the programs are almost never on C:, 
> and they may not be on D: either.  The way I manage that is to set myself up 
> an S: ("System") drive which is where the programs are located.  I use 
> whatever tools I have available in the DOS I'm using to do that (usually 
> SUBST or SWSUBST, but e.g. in DOSBox I need to use MOUNT).  I have the 
> programs and batch files set up to assume S: instead of C: for the default 
> drive.
>
> That's probably too complicated of a setup for most people, but is how I do 
> it.

Aha. That's a good idea. Thank you -- I may try that.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Bret Johnson]

> Small primary FAT16 partition with FreeDOS. Bigger primary FAT32
> partition with Win9x. Then an extended partition, with some logical
> drives in it, which will be visible to both.

Even in Virtual machines, I always set up very small "boot drive" (usually only 
a few MB) as C:.  It only contains the things required to boot and a few basic 
utilities (including a simple text editor).  All of the useful programs are on 
a separate drive (usually D:, but it depends on the specific environment).  
That way I only need to manage one copy of all the programs and can use them 
consistently no matter how DOS booted.

The problem with this approach is that the programs are almost never on C:, and 
they may not be on D: either.  The way I manage that is to set myself up an S: 
("System") drive which is where the programs are located.  I use whatever tools 
I have available in the DOS I'm using to do that (usually SUBST or SWSUBST, but 
e.g. in DOSBox I need to use MOUNT).  I have the programs and batch files set 
up to assume S: instead of C: for the default drive.

That's probably too complicated of a setup for most people, but is how I do it.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Liam Proven]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 23:09, Björn Morell  wrote:
>
> If you want to access one from the other you cannot as it will be hidden, for 
> that to work you need separat drives

Not really, no.

Small primary FAT16 partition with FreeDOS. Bigger primary FAT32
partition with Win9x. Then an extended partition, with some logical
drives in it, which will be visible to both.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Björn Morell]

If you want to access one from the other you cannot as it will be 
hidden, for that to work you need separat drives or the coplcated 
method, if not xfdisk on a bootable floppy or usb will be handy while 
installing.


Den 2022-02-11 kl. 22:14, skrev [GlassNerves] via Freedos-user:

Thanks for the answers guys. I see i have a lot of options.
I don't wanna to install FreeDOS in the same partition of Windows 98 
because this is complicated as hell. I will make two partitions and 
will be using the xfdisk method.


Sent with ProtonMail  Secure Email.


--- Original Message ---
Em sexta-feira, 11 de fevereiro de 2022 às 2:36 AM, [GlassNerves] 
 escreveu:

Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?

Sent with ProtonMail  Secure Email.




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[Freedos-user] Update FreeDOS Instalation

[[GlassNerves] via Freedos-user]

Is there a way to update old versions of FreeDOS to the new ones with not 
losing data?
I have installed version 1.3 RC5 and I'm afraid I'll need to reinstall 
everything when the final release comes.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[[GlassNerves] via Freedos-user]

Thanks for the answers guys. I see i have a lot of options.
I don't wanna to install FreeDOS in the same partition of Windows 98 because 
this is complicated as hell. I will make two partitions and will be using the 
xfdisk method.

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.

--- Original Message ---
Em sexta-feira, 11 de fevereiro de 2022 às 2:36 AM, [GlassNerves] 
 escreveu:

> Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?
>
> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.___
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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Liam Proven]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 18:17, Bret Johnson  wrote:
>
> I still have a computer (not hooked up to a keyboard or monitor any more) 
> which uses an old commercial program called System Commander.

I remember that. It was pretty good, yeah.

I was a PowerQuest fan back in the day, so for many years I used
PowerQuest BootMagic. It came with PartitionMagic, but it was also
made freeware at some point and featured on a few magazine cover CDs.

E.g. there seems to be a copy here, but I haven't tried it.
https://powerquest-bootmagic.software.informer.com/

Do run a virus scan though!

The config tool runs under DOS, so you need a DOS bootable partition
to change its settings. It needs to run from FAT, too, but FAT16 or
FAT32 will both do. It can hide and unhide partitions so incompatible
OSes can live side-by-side. It worked with PC and DR DOS, Linux,
BeOS/Haiku, Oberon A2/Bluebottle, and some other things I've thrown at
it -- OS/2 2/3/4, NT up to about XP, and so on.

I think I even had DOS and Win9x side by side using it. I think it
predates Vista and BCD boot so it might struggle with that.

It's my personal favourite, but System Commander was also very capable.

-- 
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Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Bret Johnson]

I still have a computer (not hooked up to a keyboard or monitor any more) which 
uses an old commercial program called System Commander.  System Commander would 
let you load several different versions of DOS on the same C: drive.  I think I 
have about 10 different versions of DOS on the same C: partition (different 
versions of MS-DOS, PC-DOS, DR-DOS, etc.).  I don't remember the exact details, 
and I don't remember if it works with FreeDOS, and it would be a hassle to get 
the system booting again to see exactly what all I have on it.

What System Commander does is make copies of the hidden system files needed to 
boot (IO.SYS & MSDOS.SYS or IBMBIO.COM & IBMDOS.COM), along with COMMAND.COM, 
CONFIG.SYS, & AUTOEXEC.BAT for each version of DOS.  When you boot, you select 
from the System Commander boot menu exactly which version you want to load and 
it does all the manipulation of the hard drive needed to accomplish that 
(backups and copies the necessary files) and then finishes booting.  If you're 
wanting to experiment with several different versions of DOS, I found that the 
best program to use.

Since you're only wanting to experiment with two DOS versions, you probably 
don't need anything as sophisticated as that.  Something like Eric's METAKERN 
might work (I've never used it), or the other suggestion of using two separate 
partitions would also work but you would probably also want some kind of boot 
manager to go along with it.  IIRC the Ranish Partition Manager would let you 
build/manipulate the partitions and also provided a simple boot loader.

I personally use a commercial program called BootIt to manage my booting with 
DOS, Windows, and sometimes Linux.  I know lots of people use *nix utilities 
GRUB or LILO but I have never used those myself.  I also know there are other 
boot managers available out there but haven't used any of them.

Bottom line is that you can do it and there are several ways it can be done, 
and you'll get lots of opinions on the "best" way to do it.  I wouldn't suggest 
doing it the way I do (with commercial programs), though.  I use commercial 
programs because at the time (many, many years ago) the available free programs 
really didn't do what I needed.  I think you can find something free today to 
do what you want.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Björn Morell]

H !

How about making 2 partitions on the drive  and use xfdisk to make the 
partitions whitch have a boot  manager that hide and shows desired 
partition  ? Install Freedos and xfdisk on the first and then hide it 
and instal windows on the second.




Den 2022-02-11 kl. 09:40, skrev Eric Auer:


Hi!


Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?


It is possible, but not easy to install. Both Win98 and FreeDOS
can use the same FAT32 C: drive, so you need a boot sector side
boot menu such as my "metakern". You can also use a MBR style
boot menu which alternately hides one of two FAT partitions,
but I have no experience with that.

To install, you first have to install Windows 98. Then you need
a tool to make a copy of the Windows boot sector and store that
as a file. I think you can use options of our SYS tool to achieve
that. Also make a backup of your config.sys, then install FreeDOS.

Metakern is then used together with the backup of your Windows
boot sector to create a "kernel" file and you use FreeDOS SYS
to change the boot sector of your C: drive to one which loads
that "meta-kernel".

Booting C: will now open a menu where you can either continue
to boot FreeDOS or switch to booting Windows. You have to use
FDCONFIG.SYS for FreeDOS (if it finds one, it will use that
instead of CONFIG.SYS, so the latter stays free for Win98: If
the FreeDOS installer has overwritten the Windows config, you
can rename the FreeDOS config and copy back your backup of the
Windows config). Also, your FDCONFIG.SYS SHELL line has to say
that you want to use FreeDOS FreeCOM instead of command.com of
Win98 with a FreeDOS batch file other than AUTOEXEC.BAT, so you
can keep the latter free for Win98 use.

If anything goes wrong, simply use our SYS to copy your backup
of the Win98 boot sector over the C: boot sector, so you remove
the menu and boot directly into Win98 again. As mentioned, make
sure to backup your config.sys, autoexec.bat, command.com and
boot sector BEFORE you install FreeDOS. So in case any of them
gets overwritten, you can rename the FreeDOS version and copy
back the Windows version.

Regards, Eric

PS: Metakern can aloso offer to continue booting into WinNT/XP/...
or Linux primary partitions if it detects those in the MBR. Patching
the FreeDOS boot sector in RAM, it should be able to work from any
partition where FreeDOS works, but SYS may have started to show some
incompatibilities at any time since 2003. Use at your own risk :-)





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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Eric Auer]

Hi!


Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?


It is possible, but not easy to install. Both Win98 and FreeDOS
can use the same FAT32 C: drive, so you need a boot sector side
boot menu such as my "metakern". You can also use a MBR style
boot menu which alternately hides one of two FAT partitions,
but I have no experience with that.

To install, you first have to install Windows 98. Then you need
a tool to make a copy of the Windows boot sector and store that
as a file. I think you can use options of our SYS tool to achieve
that. Also make a backup of your config.sys, then install FreeDOS.

Metakern is then used together with the backup of your Windows
boot sector to create a "kernel" file and you use FreeDOS SYS
to change the boot sector of your C: drive to one which loads
that "meta-kernel".

Booting C: will now open a menu where you can either continue
to boot FreeDOS or switch to booting Windows. You have to use
FDCONFIG.SYS for FreeDOS (if it finds one, it will use that
instead of CONFIG.SYS, so the latter stays free for Win98: If
the FreeDOS installer has overwritten the Windows config, you
can rename the FreeDOS config and copy back your backup of the
Windows config). Also, your FDCONFIG.SYS SHELL line has to say
that you want to use FreeDOS FreeCOM instead of command.com of
Win98 with a FreeDOS batch file other than AUTOEXEC.BAT, so you
can keep the latter free for Win98 use.

If anything goes wrong, simply use our SYS to copy your backup
of the Win98 boot sector over the C: boot sector, so you remove
the menu and boot directly into Win98 again. As mentioned, make
sure to backup your config.sys, autoexec.bat, command.com and
boot sector BEFORE you install FreeDOS. So in case any of them
gets overwritten, you can rename the FreeDOS version and copy
back the Windows version.

Regards, Eric

PS: Metakern can aloso offer to continue booting into WinNT/XP/...
or Linux primary partitions if it detects those in the MBR. Patching
the FreeDOS boot sector in RAM, it should be able to work from any
partition where FreeDOS works, but SYS may have started to show some
incompatibilities at any time since 2003. Use at your own risk :-)





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