Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-20 Thread TechFan
Unfortunately, I tried to setup my usbkey and the computer just ignores 
it though it boots of usb floppy just fine.


- Original Message -
*From:* Johnson Lam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*To:* freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 15, 2006 1:37:47 AM
*Subject:* [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .



On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 01:14:52 +1000, you wrote:

Hi Techfan,

  

Thanks for the info. . .so I just need to sys the usb stick?  That works
with Msdos as well?  I thought I had tried that before. . .the main
issue I have is that I need to be able to boot to it and run ghostcast
off a network drive.  I already use the netboot global boot disk with
good success, but never known how to make the usb stick bootable. . .  I
will have to play with it.



Under 2 condition:

1) Your BIOS must have "USB-ZIP" or "USB-HDD" option, otherwise you
have to use floppy with USBASPI.SYS

2) Your USB stick must be "bootable", I got an old USB stick which
can't boot, no matter how I try it fail, later I change a new one and
it works!

You can try the HP's tools "SP27213" under Windows, if your BIOS
support boot from USB, you may try "SYS" the USB stick, it should
work.


Rgds,
Johnson.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-15 Thread Carl Spitzer
On Wed, 2006-03-15 at 01:14 +1000, TechFan wrote:
> Thanks for the info. . .so I just need to sys the usb stick?  That works
> with Msdos as well?  I thought I had tried that before. . .the main
> issue I have is that I need to be able to boot to it and run ghostcast
> off a network drive.  I already use the netboot global boot disk with
> good success, but never known how to make the usb stick bootable. . .  I
> will have to play with it.
> 

Start with a P4 whose bios allows booting from usb.
Check the Mandrake linux lists there was a mandrake on usb boot drive.

CWSIV



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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-15 Thread Michael Devore

At 12:07 PM 3/15/2006 +0300, Arkady V.Belousov wrote:

15-íÁÒ-2006 02:36 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Devore) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

MD> Yes.  Creating a new partition with FDISK doesn't work.  It thinks it
MD> works, but the stick remains unusable until the HP tool reformats it.

 Why this may happen?


I thought I was asking you.  Because I sure don't know.  If I had to guess, 
I'd say that USBASPI was getting in the way of the partition creation but 
not the removal, which still doesn't make a whole lot of sense.






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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-15 Thread Arkady V.Belousov
Hi!

15-Мар-2006 02:36 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Devore) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

MD> Yes.  Creating a new partition with FDISK doesn't work.  It thinks it
MD> works, but the stick remains unusable until the HP tool reformats it.

 Why this may happen?





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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-15 Thread Michael Devore

At 11:09 AM 3/15/2006 +0300, Arkady V.Belousov wrote:


MD> If I start up FDISK, it sees a partition on the USB
MD> stick.  If I then use FDISK to remove that partition, afterwards the USB
MD> stick cannot be accessed by FreeDOS tools (including FORMAT or DEBUG) or
MD> Windows re-format.

 Of course - they works only with partitions (which you remove with
FDISK). Just recreate partition again. Or I not understand something?


Yes.  Creating a new partition with FDISK doesn't work.  It thinks it 
works, but the stick remains unusable until the HP tool reformats it.





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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-15 Thread Arkady V.Belousov
Hi!

14-Мар-2006 16:51 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Devore) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

>>  As I understand, this is not possible: diskettes do not contain MBR,
>>disks do. And these schemes are not interchangeable.
MD> Well, I have a couple USB sticks that don't know FDISK isn't supposed to
MD> affect them.

 I not say that FDISK shouldn't be used with USB stick, I say, that disk
and diskette schemes are not interchangeable (unless you destroy previous
media content to prepare opposite scheme for use as opposite device).

MD> If I start up FDISK, it sees a partition on the USB
MD> stick.  If I then use FDISK to remove that partition, afterwards the USB
MD> stick cannot be accessed by FreeDOS tools (including FORMAT or DEBUG) or
MD> Windows re-format.

 Of course - they works only with partitions (which you remove with
FDISK). Just recreate partition again. Or I not understand something?





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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-14 Thread Michael Devore

At 12:55 AM 3/15/2006 +0300, Arkady V.Belousov wrote:

14-íÁÒ-2006 00:11 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Devore) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

MD> My own issue is that I can create a stick which either boots as a big
MD> floppy (A: via USB-ZIP) or a hard drive (C: via USB-HDD), but I can't seem
MD> to switch back and forth between the two types after I'm done.  I've not
MD> had time to investigate what's necessary to change to go between them.

 As I understand, this is not possible: diskettes do not contain MBR,
disks do. And these schemes are not interchangeable.


Well, I have a couple USB sticks that don't know FDISK isn't supposed to 
affect them.  If I start up FDISK, it sees a partition on the USB 
stick.  If I then use FDISK to remove that partition, afterwards the USB 
stick cannot be accessed by FreeDOS tools (including FORMAT or DEBUG) or 
Windows re-format.  In fact, if it weren't for the HP USB tool which can 
restore their formatting at that point, FreeDOS FDISK partition removal on 
the USB sticks would turn them into fish lures, slingshot ammunition, or 
very tiny doorstops.  Maybe Linux tools might work too, I haven't booted 
Linux in a while since my free Red Hat updates ran out.









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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-14 Thread Mark Bailey



Arkady V.Belousov wrote:

Hi!

14-Мар-2006 17:21 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Bailey) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:


T> So, can you direct a fdisk /mbr to remove the mbr on a usb key to get
T> back to the floppy emulation?

 As I understand, this is not possible: diskettes do not contain MBR,
disks do. And these schemes are not interchangeable.

 "fdisk/mbr" just (re)writes MBR booting code, this neither changes nor
deletes anything other (partitions information). And FDISK do not deal with
non-MBR media by definition.

MB> A USB stick can be set up either with or without an MBR.

 I don't mean inverse, I just says that FDISK doesn't helps in this.

MB> You can use Linux commands to switch back and forth.

 With destroying previous content?



Yes.  These destroy any contents of the USB stick and reformat it.

The HP utility will also write a FreeDOS kernel and boot sector
(or MSDOS kernel and boot sector) to the stick.

Mark

Mark


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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-14 Thread Arkady V.Belousov
Hi!

14-Мар-2006 17:21 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Bailey) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

>> T> So, can you direct a fdisk /mbr to remove the mbr on a usb key to get
>> T> back to the floppy emulation?
  As I understand, this is not possible: diskettes do not contain MBR,
 disks do. And these schemes are not interchangeable.
>>  "fdisk/mbr" just (re)writes MBR booting code, this neither changes nor
>> deletes anything other (partitions information). And FDISK do not deal with
>> non-MBR media by definition.
MB> A USB stick can be set up either with or without an MBR.

 I don't mean inverse, I just says that FDISK doesn't helps in this.

MB> You can use Linux commands to switch back and forth.

 With destroying previous content?





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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-14 Thread Mark Bailey


Arkady V.Belousov wrote:

Hi!

15-Мар-2006 08:00 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (TechFan) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

T> So, can you direct a fdisk /mbr to remove the mbr on a usb key to get
T> back to the floppy emulation?

 As I understand, this is not possible: diskettes do not contain MBR,
disks do. And these schemes are not interchangeable.


 "fdisk/mbr" just (re)writes MBR booting code, this neither changes nor
deletes anything other (partitions information). And FDISK do not deal with
non-MBR media by definition.



A USB stick can be set up either with or without an MBR.
Windows (AFAIK) transparently deals with either type.
The two computers I have that will boot a USB stick BOTH
insist on it having an MBR to boot from it, and both
automatically detect the USB stick.

You can use Linux commands to switch back and forth.
There is an HP utility which will write an MBR to a
SuperFloppy formatted memory stick (SP27213.exe) under
Windows.

The Linux command

 mkdosfs /dev/sda (or whatever your device is)

will create a "superfloppy" formatted USB stick.

You can change which way a my USB sticks formatted
with these commands.

Mark



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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-14 Thread Mark Bailey

No, fdisk /mbr writes an MBR (and master boot record)
to the disk.  The easiest way to format as superfloppy
(remove the MBR) is to boot a linux Live CD and do

mkdosfs -I /dev/sda

NOT mkdosfs /dev/sda1

(This assumes your version of Linux will recognize the
device as /dev/sda and will reformat the stick, destroying
any data on it).

This will remove the MBR and format the entire stick as
a "superfloppy".  See http://www.marlow.dk/site.php/tech/usbkeys

To install an MBR, he suggests first clearing the first 512 bytes
and then using a debian program called install-mbr:


  dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1


to erase the start of the USB Key. After that you can do a "fdisk /dev/sda" and 
create a new FAT partition (FAT16 is suitable). To install a MBR and format the key 
afterwards, do

  install-mbr /dev/sda --force
  mkdosfs -I /dev/sda1
   


Note the use of /dev/sda1.  This means the first PARTITION on the
device and implies that it has a partition table (and MBR).
FDISK /MBR is tricky...make darned sure you are using the
correct hard disk!

Mark







TechFan wrote:

So, can you direct a fdisk /mbr to remove the mbr on a usb key to get
back to the floppy emulation?

- Original Message -
*From:* "Arkady V.Belousov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*To:* freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:55:54 AM
*Subject:* [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .



Hi!

14-Мар-2006 00:11 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Devore) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

MD> My own issue is that I can create a stick which either boots as a big
MD> floppy (A: via USB-ZIP) or a hard drive (C: via USB-HDD), but I can't seem
MD> to switch back and forth between the two types after I'm done.  I've not
MD> had time to investigate what's necessary to change to go between them.

 As I understand, this is not possible: diskettes do not contain MBR,
disks do. And these schemes are not interchangeable.




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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-14 Thread Arkady V.Belousov
Hi!

15-Мар-2006 08:00 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (TechFan) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

T> So, can you direct a fdisk /mbr to remove the mbr on a usb key to get
T> back to the floppy emulation?
>>  As I understand, this is not possible: diskettes do not contain MBR,
>> disks do. And these schemes are not interchangeable.

 "fdisk/mbr" just (re)writes MBR booting code, this neither changes nor
deletes anything other (partitions information). And FDISK do not deal with
non-MBR media by definition.





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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-14 Thread TechFan
So, can you direct a fdisk /mbr to remove the mbr on a usb key to get
back to the floppy emulation?

- Original Message -
*From:* "Arkady V.Belousov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*To:* freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:55:54 AM
*Subject:* [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .


> Hi!
>
> 14-Мар-2006 00:11 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Devore) wrote to
> freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:
>
> MD> My own issue is that I can create a stick which either boots as a big
> MD> floppy (A: via USB-ZIP) or a hard drive (C: via USB-HDD), but I can't seem
> MD> to switch back and forth between the two types after I'm done.  I've not
> MD> had time to investigate what's necessary to change to go between them.
>
>  As I understand, this is not possible: diskettes do not contain MBR,
> disks do. And these schemes are not interchangeable.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
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> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory!
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>   




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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-14 Thread Arkady V.Belousov
Hi!

14-Мар-2006 00:11 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Devore) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

MD> My own issue is that I can create a stick which either boots as a big
MD> floppy (A: via USB-ZIP) or a hard drive (C: via USB-HDD), but I can't seem
MD> to switch back and forth between the two types after I'm done.  I've not
MD> had time to investigate what's necessary to change to go between them.

 As I understand, this is not possible: diskettes do not contain MBR,
disks do. And these schemes are not interchangeable.





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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-14 Thread Michael Devore

At 08:20 PM 3/14/2006 +, Gerry Hickman wrote:
My own issue is that I can create a stick which either boots as a big 
floppy (A: via USB-ZIP) or a hard drive (C: via USB-HDD), but I can't 
seem to switch back and forth between the two types after I'm done.


I'm not sure what you mean, but in general you have to decide if you're 
using floppy emulation or hard-disk emulation; it doesn't make sense (to 
me) that they can be interchangeable? It's a bit like El-Torito vs CD-ROM 
A: drive emulation - two different things...


I mean that I can make the stick work under one or the other boot types, 
but not switch back.  It's some sort of low-level formatting or 
partitioning issue.  I switched two sticks from their original ability to 
boot as USB-ZIP A: to USB-HDD C: while I was working with them, but I can't 
get them back into USB-ZIP boot support now.  Reformatting and/or FDISK 
partitioning doesn't do it.  The two boot types are mutually exclusive, 
either the stick boots one way or the other.  And right now, that way is 
USB-HDD as C:.  I have one USB-ZIP A: booting stick left, but it's my 
original with a lot of debugging and development files on it and I don't 
want to lose the one working A: boot as a sacrifice to testing.





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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-14 Thread Gerry Hickman

Hi Michael,

My own issue is that I can create a stick which either boots as a big 
floppy (A: via USB-ZIP) or a hard drive (C: via USB-HDD), but I can't 
seem to switch back and forth between the two types after I'm done.


I'm not sure what you mean, but in general you have to decide if you're 
using floppy emulation or hard-disk emulation; it doesn't make sense (to 
me) that they can be interchangeable? It's a bit like El-Torito vs 
CD-ROM A: drive emulation - two different things...


--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)


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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-14 Thread Johnson Lam
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 01:14:52 +1000, you wrote:

Hi Techfan,

>Thanks for the info. . .so I just need to sys the usb stick?  That works
>with Msdos as well?  I thought I had tried that before. . .the main
>issue I have is that I need to be able to boot to it and run ghostcast
>off a network drive.  I already use the netboot global boot disk with
>good success, but never known how to make the usb stick bootable. . .  I
>will have to play with it.

Under 2 condition:

1) Your BIOS must have "USB-ZIP" or "USB-HDD" option, otherwise you
have to use floppy with USBASPI.SYS

2) Your USB stick must be "bootable", I got an old USB stick which
can't boot, no matter how I try it fail, later I change a new one and
it works!

You can try the HP's tools "SP27213" under Windows, if your BIOS
support boot from USB, you may try "SYS" the USB stick, it should
work.


Rgds,
Johnson.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-14 Thread TechFan
Thanks for the info. . .so I just need to sys the usb stick?  That works
with Msdos as well?  I thought I had tried that before. . .the main
issue I have is that I need to be able to boot to it and run ghostcast
off a network drive.  I already use the netboot global boot disk with
good success, but never known how to make the usb stick bootable. . .  I
will have to play with it.

- Original Message -
*From:* Michael Devore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*To:* freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 14, 2006 4:11:12 PM
*Subject:* [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .


> At 07:36 AM 3/14/2006 +1000, TechFan  wrote:
>> I saw a thread go around earlier about using a bootable USB key.  Did
>> that get polished or handled?  I have an extra USB key to play with, but
>> I would like to make it bootable. . .getting tired of using the very
>> slow usb floppy drive to boot our ghosting process.
>
> Polished?  Probably not, but the current kernel with FORMAT seem to
> work for everybody who has a USB stick and a computer which supports
> USB stick booting.  There was one recent kernel bugfix made for
> computers which weirded-out with no floppies present, but that's about
> it.
>
> Anyway, there are several ways to get there.  I typically use a
> formatted USB stick recognized via USBASPI.SYS at bootup and then SYS
> it to make it bootable.  Several methods to format the stick if that's
> not already done, but it usually comes that way.
>
> My own issue is that I can create a stick which either boots as a big
> floppy (A: via USB-ZIP) or a hard drive (C: via USB-HDD), but I can't
> seem to switch back and forth between the two types after I'm done. 
> I've not had time to investigate what's necessary to change to go
> between them.  But for most users it probably doesn't matter once they
> get successful obots, so I've not been pushing hard to make the time,
> either.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-13 Thread Michael Devore

At 07:36 AM 3/14/2006 +1000, TechFan  wrote:

I saw a thread go around earlier about using a bootable USB key.  Did
that get polished or handled?  I have an extra USB key to play with, but
I would like to make it bootable. . .getting tired of using the very
slow usb floppy drive to boot our ghosting process.


Polished?  Probably not, but the current kernel with FORMAT seem to work 
for everybody who has a USB stick and a computer which supports USB stick 
booting.  There was one recent kernel bugfix made for computers which 
weirded-out with no floppies present, but that's about it.


Anyway, there are several ways to get there.  I typically use a formatted 
USB stick recognized via USBASPI.SYS at bootup and then SYS it to make it 
bootable.  Several methods to format the stick if that's not already done, 
but it usually comes that way.


My own issue is that I can create a stick which either boots as a big 
floppy (A: via USB-ZIP) or a hard drive (C: via USB-HDD), but I can't seem 
to switch back and forth between the two types after I'm done.  I've not 
had time to investigate what's necessary to change to go between them.  But 
for most users it probably doesn't matter once they get successful obots, 
so I've not been pushing hard to make the time, either.





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[Freedos-user] Instructions for making USB key bootable. . .

2006-03-13 Thread TechFan
I saw a thread go around earlier about using a bootable USB key.  Did
that get polished or handled?  I have an extra USB key to play with, but
I would like to make it bootable. . .getting tired of using the very
slow usb floppy drive to boot our ghosting process.

Thanks.




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