Re: [Freevo-users] [Freevo-devel] Please Read: Making Python 2.5 a requirement
Dirk Meyer wrote: > Jason Tackaberry wrote: >> On Fri, 2009-01-23 at 10:55 +0100, Duncan Webb wrote: >>> When comparing the picture quality of TV broadcasts from CRT TVs and TFT >>> TVs the picture quality was simply much better with the CRTs. >> I'm rather tempted to say the reason is, paradoxically, because of the >> added (temporal) resolution and (spacial) clarity in the newer >> progressive displays. My best guess is that thanks to phosphor decay in >> CRTs, you effectively get the rough equivalent of a blend deinterlacer >> for each pair of fields, which also serves to smooth out artifacts and >> other noise that are rampant in analogue and lower resolution >> broadcasts. >> >> So, maybe apply a gaussian blur to every frame coming from an analogue >> source before displaying to a progressive HD display and it might look >> "equivalent" to your average CRT. :) > > I guess it depends on the source. Years ago I watched a VCD on my > monitor because my TV was broken. The result was very bad. But for > analog TV broadcasts you can record in higher quality, PAL/NTSC isn't > that bad. But you shouldn't use the small VCD resolution. If you record > the full 480 or 576 pixel height, the quality is ok. I guess too that it depends on the source. When I was talking about watching analogue TV, I was meaning using the TVs decoder to watch the source directly from the incoming cable connection. The TV supports analogue and DVB-T and the picture quality with either connection is simply poor compared to the CRT TV. Until the channels become HD it is worth keeping the CRT TV to watch SD material. I guess that the main driving force to TFTs will be the power of marketing and HD material. So the time-scale for everyone having TFTs maybe longer than a couple of years and really depends on the broadcasters. Duncan -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freevo-users mailing list Freevo-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
Re: [Freevo-users] [Freevo-devel] Please Read: Making Python 2.5 a requirement
Jason Tackaberry wrote: > We're moving into the HD era. You need a more capable system to play HD > content. If HD content doesn't interest you and UI eye candy, Freevo > 1.x will continue to be available for as long as Duncan is motivated to > work on it. > > Supporting older hardware is a pain with increasingly diminishing > returns. > > Cheers, > Jason. What sort of hardware are we talking about for Freevo 2? My old media centre hardware has died (Via SP13000) so I am looking at getting a new motherboard etc. Now I have a VERY low profile case (40mm hight clearance internally) and only space for 1 card... now as that slot will probably be a 2 tuner tv card, I don't have any space free for a gfx card :) (one of these http://www.hipergroup.com/products.php?lv=4&cate=2&type=12&pid=128&action=Picture&w=1280&h=590 ) I was thinking about one of the new Atom 330 (dual core) motherboards as these are supposed to be able to handle 720p and some 1080p content with the latest playback drivers, but the graphics card is a very old GMA 950, would you expect that sort of system to cope with Freevo 2? I would expect an atom system to be a very popular choice for a media centre hardware, I certainly don't want to run a full power intel quad core system in my lounge just to run a media centre (and I wouldn't want to pay the power bill on such a system either!). -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freevo-users mailing list Freevo-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
Re: [Freevo-users] [Freevo-devel] Please Read: Making Python 2.5 a requirement
On Sat, 2009-01-24 at 23:00 +, Andrew Flegg wrote: > A $40 PCI card, which'll fit a low (CPU-)power Mini-ITX machine in a > small case with room for only one or two PCI cards? PCI? No. If you have no free PCI-express slot, then clearly you can't upgrade easily. The alternative is a motherboard with a recent Intel GMA chipset, which we will also support. > Freevo's supposed to be for use in a living room, please don't forget > that this often means building a low-noise PC in - probably - a nice > small case. I certainly wouldn't forget that, since that's exactly the situation I use Freevo for. > Myth didn't work well on a low-end box, I'd hate to see Freevo go the same > way. We're moving into the HD era. You need a more capable system to play HD content. If HD content doesn't interest you and UI eye candy, Freevo 1.x will continue to be available for as long as Duncan is motivated to work on it. Supporting older hardware is a pain with increasingly diminishing returns. Cheers, Jason. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freevo-users mailing list Freevo-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
Re: [Freevo-users] [Freevo-devel] Please Read: Making Python 2.5 a requirement
On Fri, 2009-01-23 at 10:55 +0100, Duncan Webb wrote: > When comparing the picture quality of TV broadcasts from CRT TVs and TFT > TVs the picture quality was simply much better with the CRTs. I'm rather tempted to say the reason is, paradoxically, because of the added (temporal) resolution and (spacial) clarity in the newer progressive displays. My best guess is that thanks to phosphor decay in CRTs, you effectively get the rough equivalent of a blend deinterlacer for each pair of fields, which also serves to smooth out artifacts and other noise that are rampant in analogue and lower resolution broadcasts. So, maybe apply a gaussian blur to every frame coming from an analogue source before displaying to a progressive HD display and it might look "equivalent" to your average CRT. :) -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freevo-users mailing list Freevo-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
Re: [Freevo-users] [Freevo-devel] Please Read: Making Python 2.5 a requirement
Jason Tackaberry wrote: > On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 08:59 +0100, Duncan Webb wrote: >> For analogue TV and DVB-T of analogue recordings the CRTs are still very >> much better than flat screens; this has to do with the none square >> pixels on CRTs. > > Can you elaborate on this a bit? I'm skeptical, as I don't see why this > couldn't be overcome with high quality scaling. When browsing around different retailers for the TV, just about all the TVs were showing either trailers or the HD channel. It was quite difficult to fine a demo with analogue TV broadcast and when there was one the quality was poor. On the other hand DVDs look good and it doesn't seem to make much difference if the DVD is copied onto freevo as an ISO image or played with an up-scaling DVD player. A HDMI or a DVI to HDMI converter is important for good picture quality; SCART, S-video and composite connections gives a noticeably poorer picture. It is possible to improve the images by some post-processing. Some old 4:3 TV recordings that have been converted to xvid look pretty good. So quite why analogue broadcasts, which have also the same pixel aspect ratio as DVDs, look so poor needs some more thought. May be because the TV does not have any cleaver scaling and the pixel aspect ratio of 1.4 to 1 gets scaled as 2:1 and 1:1. When comparing the picture quality of TV broadcasts from CRT TVs and TFT TVs the picture quality was simply much better with the CRTs. Duncan -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freevo-users mailing list Freevo-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
Re: [Freevo-users] [Freevo-devel] Please Read: Making Python 2.5 a requirement
On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 20:11 +0100, Dirk Meyer wrote: > What gfx card to you have? Note that a $40 nvidia card will provide an excellent Freevo 2 experience :) -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freevo-users mailing list Freevo-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
Re: [Freevo-users] [Freevo-devel] Please Read: Making Python 2.5 a requirement
On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 08:59 +0100, Duncan Webb wrote: > For analogue TV and DVB-T of analogue recordings the CRTs are still very > much better than flat screens; this has to do with the none square > pixels on CRTs. Can you elaborate on this a bit? I'm skeptical, as I don't see why this couldn't be overcome with high quality scaling. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freevo-users mailing list Freevo-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
Re: [Freevo-users] [Freevo-devel] Please Read: Making Python 2.5 a requirement
Dirk Meyer wrote: > Duncan Webb wrote: > >> I've just started the jump from Python-2.4 to Python-2.6 on my DirectFB >> machine. So far it has been easy enough and been fairly trouble free. >> > > Stupid question from the 2.0 development point of view: you use DFB in > Freevo? What card to you have? For 2.0 we are going we are making X a > requirement. Well, sort of. We use clutter, but I'm not sure how good > the clutter SDL backend works on DFB. > > So after the 2.4 question, here a new one: anyone not using X11 and why? > Up until sometime last year I was still using directfb with a matrox g400 card as I was outputting to a CRT. I'd guess that's the main reason why people would still use it? John > > Dischi > > -- John Molohan IT Manager Griffith College Dublin South Circular Road Dublin 8 Ireland Phone: +353 1 4163366 Web: www.it.gcd.ie www.gcd.ie Disclaimer: This E-mail is from Griffith College Dublin. The E-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may be privileged and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the addressee you are prohibited from disclosing its content, copying it or distributing it otherwise than to the addressee. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by replying to this e-mail and delete the e-mail from your computer. Bellerophon Ltd, trades as Griffith College (registered in Ireland No. 60469) with its registered address as Griffith College Campus, South Circular Road, Dublin 8, Ireland. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freevo-users mailing list Freevo-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
Re: [Freevo-users] [Freevo-devel] Please Read: Making Python 2.5 a requirement
On Mon, 2009-01-19 at 23:53 +0100, Dirk Meyer wrote: > So after the 2.4 question, here a new one: anyone not using X11 and why? I'm also interested in answers especially that don't involve old hardware. This may be a controversial statement, but we're not considering older hardware at all for Freevo 2.0. Your trusty old Matrox G450 might handle interlaced content like nobody's business, but it's not going to cut it. :) Jason. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freevo-users mailing list Freevo-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
Re: [Freevo-users] [Freevo-devel] Please Read: Making Python 2.5 a requirement
On Mon, 2009-01-19 at 23:50 +0100, Dirk Meyer wrote: > kaa.rpc and we want to rename one function there. I guess you also use > kaa.Process which will be updated with a new API soon (that API requires > 2.5). Not just a new API, but semantic changes that might mean a not-so-straightforward porting. For example, you can now read() even if the child process has exited. ... but now I just looked at the existing Process class, and saw there is no read() method. If you just attach to the 'read' signal, I'm tempted to say things should work the same (except be less broken, because IIRC the existing Process implementation has race conditions in which output from the child maybe lost). > IIRC kaa.base, kaa.imlib2, and kaa.metadata are the old modules working > with 2.4. The others already require 2.5. For kaa.metadata relative > imports would be nice, kaa.imlib2 does not need anything special. With 2.5 as a requirement, bindings could use ctypes. There's probably no reason to change the existing bindings to ctypes though. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freevo-users mailing list Freevo-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
Re: [Freevo-users] [Freevo-devel] Please Read: Making Python 2.5 a requirement
On Mon, 2009-01-19 at 20:18 +0100, Duncan Webb wrote: > Personally, I don't mind making Python-2.5 a requirement. I wonder how > many people are still using Python-2.4 as it can be a biggish task to > migrate all the packages. Biggish, although I think most recent distros take care of that without too much fuss (by providing packages for multiple python versions). I'm prepared now to begin using Python 2.5 features inside kaa.base and make it a formal requirement unless there are no further arguments. This new requirement will apply to svn shortly, and to the next release. As kaa.base is a dependency for all kaa modules, this requirement then applies to all modules under the kaa umbrella. So dischi, we can start using relative imports for kaa.metadata (and elsewhere, where desired). Cheers, Jason. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freevo-users mailing list Freevo-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
Re: [Freevo-users] [Freevo-devel] Please Read: Making Python 2.5 a requirement
Jason Tackaberry wrote: > On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 19:52 -0800, Michel Lespinasse wrote: >> There is an etch package for python 2.5, so this would not be a huge deal. > > This seems to be the general sentiment so far. > > Duncan, you're so far kaa.base's biggest customer (by means of Freevo > 1.x) so I'd definitely like to hear your thoughts. Personally, I don't mind making Python-2.5 a requirement. I wonder how many people are still using Python-2.4 as it can be a biggish task to migrate all the packages. I've just started the jump from Python-2.4 to Python-2.6 on my DirectFB machine. So far it has been easy enough and been fairly trouble free. Cheers, Duncan -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freevo-users mailing list Freevo-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
Re: [Freevo-users] [Freevo-devel] Please Read: Making Python 2.5 a requirement
On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 19:52 -0800, Michel Lespinasse wrote: > There is an etch package for python 2.5, so this would not be a huge deal. This seems to be the general sentiment so far. Duncan, you're so far kaa.base's biggest customer (by means of Freevo 1.x) so I'd definitely like to hear your thoughts. Cheers, Jason. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freevo-users mailing list Freevo-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
