Re: [FRIAM] Dennis Ritchie: The Shoulders Steve Jobs Stood On (Wired)
You are joking. Aren't you? That's not the sense, I think that you are not pointing to where article is doing. With fair reasons many people is making eulogies to something that transcended. Dennis Ritchie let a legacy which is impossible to deny. Today's software is not Fortran descendant is C descendant. I think that's the sense. No body is telling or asking if C is perfect. To say that programming languages had to be better this way or that way is a good and interesting question but doesn't change current programming languages state. If you let me say a metaphor; I am here thanks to a some rare structure appeared 3500 millions years ago: a Prokariotic cell that contained DNA freely flowing in the citoplams. Why nucleotides?. Wasn't better other kind of structure. Why Adenine, why Guanine. Why diphosphate. Will Structure and Function of ancient ADN emerged 3500 millions years ago be responsible of cancer that with high probabilities will kill me some day? (attending to familiar history. Just an example). They are questions that really don't matter (even if cancer actually will kill me). Is the legacy from C to Java or C++ or PHP responsable of problems that programmers have when are trying to code?. If today's software were Fortran descendant, software were better? No more than the kind of questions made for Albert Camus if were alive. ¿Why something emerged this way and not than that way? 2011/10/15 Russ Abbott russ.abb...@gmail.com How did Dennis Ritchie's death make C a wonderful language? *-- Russ Abbott* *_* *** Professor, Computer Science* * California State University, Los Angeles* * Google voice: 747-*999-5105 Google+: https://plus.google.com/114865618166480775623/ * vita: *http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/ *_* On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:55 PM, Alfredo Covaleda alfredocoval...@gmail.com wrote: Nice article http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2011/10/thedennisritchieeffect/ -- Alfredo FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org -- Alfredo FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] Dennis Ritchie: The Shoulders Steve Jobs Stood On(Wired)
Maybe what Russ meant is the fact that C is widely successful does not make C a beautiful language. I would agree to this point. C was successful because it was useful, not because it was beautiful. Although beauty is in the eye of the beholder, is Haskell beautiful, or Lisp? I doubt it. Ruby has a certain beauty, but it is written in C (and the implementation itself is not beautiful at all). It is also really slow. However, the article was interesting. -J. - Original Message - From: Alfredo Covaleda To: russ.abb...@gmail.com ; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Dennis Ritchie: The Shoulders Steve Jobs Stood On(Wired) You are joking. Aren't you? That's not the sense, I think that you are not pointing to where article is doing. With fair reasons many people is making eulogies to something that transcended. Dennis Ritchie let a legacy which is impossible to deny. Today's software is not Fortran descendant is C descendant. I think that's the sense. No body is telling or asking if C is perfect. To say that programming languages had to be better this way or that way is a good and interesting question but doesn't change current programming languages state. If you let me say a metaphor; I am here thanks to a some rare structure appeared 3500 millions years ago: a Prokariotic cell that contained DNA freely flowing in the citoplams. Why nucleotides?. Wasn't better other kind of structure. Why Adenine, why Guanine. Why diphosphate. Will Structure and Function of ancient ADN emerged 3500 millions years ago be responsible of cancer that with high probabilities will kill me some day? (attending to familiar history. Just an example). They are questions that really don't matter (even if cancer actually will kill me). Is the legacy from C to Java or C++ or PHP responsable of problems that programmers have when are trying to code?. If today's software were Fortran descendant, software were better? No more than the kind of questions made for Albert Camus if were alive. ¿Why something emerged this way and not than that way? FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] Dennis Ritchie: The Shoulders Steve Jobs Stood On (Wired)
On 10/15/2011 2:55 AM, Alfredo Covale da wrote: If today's software were Fortran descendant, software were better? It would probably be faster. Fortran call arguments can't alias, which means a compiler is far less constrained in changing the order of operations (e.g. running work in parallel on multiple cores or on accelerators like GPUs). Fortran 2008 has most of the features of C++ other than permissive use of raw addresses. Ritchie himself joked the power of assembly language and the convenience of ... assembly language. One can find numerous examples of hardcore system programmers like Linus Torvalds loudly objecting to attempts to make C compilers (gcc) too smart. C is a clean small language for portable programming on hardware. I think the world have been a better place had people recognized that a long time a go and moved on. It is pretty much a given that almost any new language that has a chance of success will share properties of C, if not actual syntax. Unfortunately, properties that made for practical systems programming on a PDP/11 35 years ago are not the properties that should guide all kinds of programming today. Many of the security fixes that daily stream into your PC or Mac or Linux system basically you can blame on C (and C++) programmers, and abuse of typing. Dennis Ritchie, of course, moved systems programming forward and made the world a better place. The spectacular lack of creativity that followed can't be blamed on him. Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
[FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
Dear Local Friammers, I asked others on the list to inform me about Occupy Wall Street -type activities in Santa Fe, and, since nobody did and since I learned a little more, myself, I thought I would say what I think I know. (1)The Group at the State Capitol building house seemed to represent many (laudable) interests but to have no over- arching message yet or a well-defined local target. Lots of friendly horn beeping and waves and only one negative comment from a guy who seemed to shout at us that we were prawns! Prawns?! we said. Oh PAWNS! But then the light changed and he was gone. (2)The center of the group's activities has been the Bank of America at the corner of Peralta and St. Francis just where St. Francis starts up the hill toward 599 and Tesuque, etc. Some have been camped (with permission) on an empty lot across the street. (3)That permission is running out and the group will meet there meet tomorrow evening to discuss next steps. All interested parties presumably invited. (4)The group's web presence seemed not yet well organized. Perhaps it is getting organized as I speak, but since there are a lot of people on the Friam list with relevant skills, perhaps some of us might want to take notice. (5)I have some experience with Google Sites and I have offered (please, don't laugh), (if nobody better puts up his/her hand), to put together a primitive Google Site/Group for the purpose of posting information, offering a forum, etc. But I have experience only with private Google Sites and have a sense from reading Google Help Forums that public Google Sites are terribly vulnerable to outside interference. Is this true? Do you have advice to give me in this matter. Is Facebook a far better way of achieving these goals. (6)The above information is gathered informally and may all be incorrect. Thank you for your patience. I stipulate that this is not the place for a political discussion and that many of you would probably disagree with me vehemently on many matters, so I will leave it at that. As soon as there is a local distribution list or equivalent, there will be no need to discuss such matters in this forum, for which, I assume, many of you will be grateful. Back to the discussion of cellphone apps. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://www.cusf.org http://www.cusf.org/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
Ah Nick, you are a treasure. I have no info: very busy with a professional watershed event and my place in it, so I watch and honk as I drive by but choose not to participate. IF I had info, you would definitely be getting it! Tory Tory Hughes www.toryhughes.com RAM- Terra Nova Milagro Hacienda creativity retreat On Oct 15, 2011, at 10:55 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: Dear Local Friammers, I asked others on the list to inform me about Occupy Wall Street – type activities in Santa Fe, and, since nobody did and since I learned a little more, myself, I thought I would say what I think I know. (1)The Group at the State Capitol building house seemed to represent many (laudable) interests but to have no over- arching message yet or a well-defined local target. Lots of friendly horn beeping and waves and only one negative comment from a guy who seemed to shout at us that we were “prawns!” “Prawns?!” we said. Oh PAWNS! But then the light changed and he was gone. (2)The center of the group’s activities has been the Bank of America at the corner of Peralta and St. Francis just where St. Francis starts up the hill toward 599 and Tesuque, etc. Some have been camped (with permission) on an empty lot across the street. (3)That permission is running out and the group will meet there meet tomorrow evening to discuss next steps. All interested parties presumably invited. (4)The group’s web presence seemed not yet well organized. Perhaps it is getting organized as I speak, but since there are a lot of people on the Friam list with relevant skills, perhaps some of us might want to take notice. (5)I have some experience with Google Sites and I have offered (please, don’t laugh), (if nobody better puts up his/her hand), to put together a primitive Google Site/Group for the purpose of posting information, offering a forum, etc. But I have experience only with private Google Sites and have a sense from reading Google Help Forums that public Google Sites are terribly vulnerable to outside interference. Is this true? Do you have advice to give me in this matter. Is Facebook a far better way of achieving these goals. (6)The above information is gathered informally and may all be incorrect. Thank you for your patience. I stipulate that this is not the place for a political discussion and that many of you would probably disagree with me vehemently on many matters, so I will leave it at that. As soon as there is a local distribution list or equivalent, there will be no need to discuss such matters in this forum, for which, I assume, many of you will be grateful. Back to the discussion of cellphone apps. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://www.cusf.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Nicholas Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: Dear Local Friammers, ** ** snip ** ** Back to the discussion of cellphone apps. And emergence. Let's not forget the deep discussions of emergence. ** ** Nick --Doug FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
