Re: [FRIAM] speculative Q
When you say “app”, I assume you’re talking about mobile; is that correct? Even if you consider all non-server software, even stuff that runs on desktops, I think it’s still pretty miniscule (I don’t have numbers to back it up). In my opinion, the reason that open source software has made so little inroads into consumer-facing applications generally is that it’s relatively easy (and fun) to get software about 80% “finished” (perhaps in lines of code), and relatively hard (and boring) to get the last 20%. That 20% represents things like a polished, consistent user interface and good end user documentation. Usually, only a profit motive is enough to get developers through that boring, hard part. As far as mobile apps go, we at least started out with a less sophisticated user base (phone users) than we had with desktop and laptop users, so software and its installation have got to be incredibly easy in order to attract users. For the most part, this means “app stores”, primarily the iTunes Store and Google Play. The iTunes store requires going through the difficult and uncertain process of getting an app approved in order for someone to even be able to use it, even if it is free. The only alternative is “jailbreaking” the phone, which I imagine only a very small percentage of users are interested in. Android’s “sideloading” is an alternative for that OS, but again, most users won’t go to the trouble. So, in order for a company or individual to be willing to go through all the pain of getting an app approved, a profit motive is usually required. That’s my 2cents worth. Gary On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 8:44 PM, Gillian Densmore gil.densm...@gmail.com wrote: Speculative Q: Anyone care to speculate why Open Source apps not have gotten much traction out side some exceptions? I ask because it'd seem like a business wouldn't want to use something where they couldn't see the code (for instance). FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] speculative Q
On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 07:44:35PM -0600, Gillian Densmore wrote: Speculative Q: Anyone care to speculate why Open Source apps not have gotten much traction out side some exceptions? I ask because it'd seem like a business wouldn't want to use something where they couldn't see the code (for instance). As a developer working in commercial software houses for the last decade, I would say the complete opposite has been my experience. Whilst they may be Windows/Office centric, and in some cases Visual Studio, open source software plays a big role, whether it be the Linux server for doing continuous integration, or database functions, Postgres is used in preference to MSSQL or Oracle, subversion or git instead of MS Source Safe, and hundreds of other open source libraries used, such as boost or cairo. What I see is that proprietry software is just the visible tip of the iceberg, but its largely open source underneath. And the reason - it's so easy to do - just slop in a library when you need some functionality, no management approval needed, aside from being a little bit careful around the use of GPL'ed software. Cheers -- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Cube Drone - - Relentless Persistence
yup... "where I'm from, the point of digging is not freedom from digging!" fits much of this crew pretty well! I'll see your Snobol and raise you Griswolds next great thing: Icon ! For those of us who forget, sometimes, to laugh at _javascript_, the World's Weirdest Language (well, the was Snobol (StriNg Oriented and symBOlic Language): http://cube-drone.com/comics/c/relentless-persistence (Sorry if its sorta an in-joke) -- Owen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Cube Drone - - Relentless Persistence
Back in the day, Snobol was one of my favorite languages.. I used it once for a language processing program for a group at IBM, Yorktown. Joe On 7/13/15 11:12 AM, Steve Smith wrote: yup... where I'm from, the point of digging is not freedom from digging! fits much of this crew pretty well! I'll see your Snobol and raise you Griswolds next great thing: Icon ! For those of us who forget, sometimes, to laugh at JavaScript, the World's Weirdest Language (well, the was Snobol (StriNg Oriented and symBOlic Language): http://cube-drone.com/comics/c/relentless-persistence (Sorry if its sorta an in-joke) -- Owen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com -- Sunlight is the best disinfectant. -- Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1913. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Applets · NetLogo/NetLogo Wiki
It's analagous to pets - you raise them (sometimes) from bottle-feeding and they live to old age - and they die long before you are ready. Sure, there are the occasional turtles and parrots that outlive their owners - COBOL has long outlived Grace Hopper - but most computer languages come and go within their authors and certainly users professional lifetimes. Sometimes you babysit somebody else's pet while they're on vacation or something - the other thread on the cube comic points this out - only a few of us have ever worked with SNOBOL (and we probably didn't like it that much). I started with Algol, moved on to COBOL, assembled various flavours, did some Fortran (various flavours), then CMS II (a regression), C, C++, Java (swore at Grady), and then a succession of scripting languages (none of which have stuck). My strangest language experience was A Programming Language (APL) - oh the damage one can do in almost no code. Ray Parks Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer V: 505-844-4024 M: 505-238-9359 P: 505-951-6084 NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder) JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder) On Jul 11, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: This is sorta sad: https://github.com/NetLogo/NetLogo/wiki/Applets Applets: They're dead Jim. Sad mainly from a history standpoint: Java built a really fascinating cross platform, VM based, language libraries. JS is now the current winner. But then, there's Web Assembly which will provide a path for all languages to replace JS in the browser and in Node.js. Sigh. -- Owen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Applets · NetLogo/NetLogo Wiki
APL was the first actual interactive language that I had the pleasure of using. It sure beat card readers! SmallTalk was fun in that once programmers made the conceptual jump to objects, they really enjoyed programming in it. Maybe it was the sparsity of the language as compared to C++ that made it more congenial to program in. There were just fewer trapdoors to step over (or fall through) on the path to mastery. Having taught both languages (SmallTalk, C++) I’d rather teach SmallTalk. . . . bob On Jul 13, 2015, at 4:33 PM, Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net wrote: I programmed in APL while at Xerox in the 70's. Although dangerous it was really fast to program in, especially as a domain specific language, so to speak. It got so that if you couldn't do a one-liner for anything you wanted to do, you'd be disappointed! Interestingly enough, it was the Finance dept of Xerox that first started using it, and then it leaked into the labs where it went viral. SmallTalk was sorta the same, really great but hard to deploy initially, but really loved in the labs. -- Owen On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Parks, Raymond rcpa...@sandia.gov mailto:rcpa...@sandia.gov wrote: It's analagous to pets - you raise them (sometimes) from bottle-feeding and they live to old age - and they die long before you are ready. Sure, there are the occasional turtles and parrots that outlive their owners - COBOL has long outlived Grace Hopper - but most computer languages come and go within their authors and certainly users professional lifetimes. Sometimes you babysit somebody else's pet while they're on vacation or something - the other thread on the cube comic points this out - only a few of us have ever worked with SNOBOL (and we probably didn't like it that much). I started with Algol, moved on to COBOL, assembled various flavours, did some Fortran (various flavours), then CMS II (a regression), C, C++, Java (swore at Grady), and then a succession of scripting languages (none of which have stuck). My strangest language experience was A Programming Language (APL) - oh the damage one can do in almost no code. Ray Parks Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer V: 505-844-4024 tel:505-844-4024 M: 505-238-9359 tel:505-238-9359 P: 505-951-6084 tel:505-951-6084 NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov mailto:rcpa...@sandia.gov SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov mailto:rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder) JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov mailto:dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder) On Jul 11, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: This is sorta sad: https://github.com/NetLogo/NetLogo/wiki/Applets https://github.com/NetLogo/NetLogo/wiki/Applets Applets: They're dead Jim. Sad mainly from a history standpoint: Java built a really fascinating cross platform, VM based, language libraries. JS is now the current winner. But then, there's Web Assembly which will provide a path for all languages to replace JS in the browser and in Node.js. Sigh. -- Owen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Applets · NetLogo/NetLogo Wiki
In my case, I was asked to help the Comptrollers (Air Force speak for accountants) to optimize the code because they were using an IBM emulator on a Honeywell 6800 and their APL programs were bogging down the entire system. Oh, what tangled web we create, when first we try to emulate - or, perhaps, there was another fine mess they got me into. Ray Parks Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer V: 505-844-4024 M: 505-238-9359 P: 505-951-6084 NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder) JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder) On Jul 13, 2015, at 4:33 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: I programmed in APL while at Xerox in the 70's. Although dangerous it was really fast to program in, especially as a domain specific language, so to speak. It got so that if you couldn't do a one-liner for anything you wanted to do, you'd be disappointed! Interestingly enough, it was the Finance dept of Xerox that first started using it, and then it leaked into the labs where it went viral. SmallTalk was sorta the same, really great but hard to deploy initially, but really loved in the labs. -- Owen On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Parks, Raymond rcpa...@sandia.gov wrote: It's analagous to pets - you raise them (sometimes) from bottle-feeding and they live to old age - and they die long before you are ready. Sure, there are the occasional turtles and parrots that outlive their owners - COBOL has long outlived Grace Hopper - but most computer languages come and go within their authors and certainly users professional lifetimes. Sometimes you babysit somebody else's pet while they're on vacation or something - the other thread on the cube comic points this out - only a few of us have ever worked with SNOBOL (and we probably didn't like it that much). I started with Algol, moved on to COBOL, assembled various flavours, did some Fortran (various flavours), then CMS II (a regression), C, C++, Java (swore at Grady), and then a succession of scripting languages (none of which have stuck). My strangest language experience was A Programming Language (APL) - oh the damage one can do in almost no code. Ray Parks Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer V: 505-844-4024 M: 505-238-9359 P: 505-951-6084 NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder) JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder) On Jul 11, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: This is sorta sad: https://github.com/NetLogo/NetLogo/wiki/Applets Applets: They're dead Jim. Sad mainly from a history standpoint: Java built a really fascinating cross platform, VM based, language libraries. JS is now the current winner. But then, there's Web Assembly which will provide a path for all languages to replace JS in the browser and in Node.js. Sigh. -- Owen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
[FRIAM] Fwd: Cube Drone - - Relentless Persistence
For those of us who forget, sometimes, to laugh at JavaScript, the World's Weirdest Language (well, the was Snobol (StriNg Oriented and symBOlic Language): http://cube-drone.com/comics/c/relentless-persistence (Sorry if its sorta an in-joke) -- Owen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Applets · NetLogo/NetLogo Wiki
I programmed in APL while at Xerox in the 70's. Although dangerous it was really fast to program in, especially as a domain specific language, so to speak. It got so that if you couldn't do a one-liner for anything you wanted to do, you'd be disappointed! Interestingly enough, it was the Finance dept of Xerox that first started using it, and then it leaked into the labs where it went viral. SmallTalk was sorta the same, really great but hard to deploy initially, but really loved in the labs. -- Owen On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Parks, Raymond rcpa...@sandia.gov wrote: It's analagous to pets - you raise them (sometimes) from bottle-feeding and they live to old age - and they die long before you are ready. Sure, there are the occasional turtles and parrots that outlive their owners - COBOL has long outlived Grace Hopper - but most computer languages come and go within their authors and certainly users professional lifetimes. Sometimes you babysit somebody else's pet while they're on vacation or something - the other thread on the cube comic points this out - only a few of us have ever worked with SNOBOL (and we probably didn't like it that much). I started with Algol, moved on to COBOL, assembled various flavours, did some Fortran (various flavours), then CMS II (a regression), C, C++, Java (swore at Grady), and then a succession of scripting languages (none of which have stuck). My strangest language experience was A Programming Language (APL) - oh the damage one can do in almost no code. Ray Parks Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer V: 505-844-4024 M: 505-238-9359 P: 505-951-6084 NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder) JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder) On Jul 11, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: This is sorta sad: https://github.com/NetLogo/NetLogo/wiki/Applets Applets: They're dead Jim. Sad mainly from a history standpoint: Java built a really fascinating cross platform, VM based, language libraries. JS is now the current winner. But then, there's Web Assembly which will provide a path for all languages to replace JS in the browser and in Node.js. Sigh. -- Owen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Applets · NetLogo/NetLogo Wiki
One could say: thise.Day(Pine) print.out(arg YANFL); but the joke might not compile. On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Parks, Raymond rcpa...@sandia.gov wrote: In my case, I was asked to help the Comptrollers (Air Force speak for accountants) to optimize the code because they were using an IBM emulator on a Honeywell 6800 and their APL programs were bogging down the entire system.Oh, what tangled web we create, when first we try to emulate - or, perhaps, there was another fine mess they got me into. Ray Parks Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer V: 505-844-4024 M: 505-238-9359 P: 505-951-6084 NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder) JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder) On Jul 13, 2015, at 4:33 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: I programmed in APL while at Xerox in the 70's. Although dangerous it was really fast to program in, especially as a domain specific language, so to speak. It got so that if you couldn't do a one-liner for anything you wanted to do, you'd be disappointed! Interestingly enough, it was the Finance dept of Xerox that first started using it, and then it leaked into the labs where it went viral. SmallTalk was sorta the same, really great but hard to deploy initially, but really loved in the labs. -- Owen On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Parks, Raymond rcpa...@sandia.gov wrote: It's analagous to pets - you raise them (sometimes) from bottle-feeding and they live to old age - and they die long before you are ready. Sure, there are the occasional turtles and parrots that outlive their owners - COBOL has long outlived Grace Hopper - but most computer languages come and go within their authors and certainly users professional lifetimes. Sometimes you babysit somebody else's pet while they're on vacation or something - the other thread on the cube comic points this out - only a few of us have ever worked with SNOBOL (and we probably didn't like it that much). I started with Algol, moved on to COBOL, assembled various flavours, did some Fortran (various flavours), then CMS II (a regression), C, C++, Java (swore at Grady), and then a succession of scripting languages (none of which have stuck). My strangest language experience was A Programming Language (APL) - oh the damage one can do in almost no code. Ray Parks Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer V: 505-844-4024 M: 505-238-9359 P: 505-951-6084 NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder) JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder) On Jul 11, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: This is sorta sad: https://github.com/NetLogo/NetLogo/wiki/Applets Applets: They're dead Jim. Sad mainly from a history standpoint: Java built a really fascinating cross platform, VM based, language libraries. JS is now the current winner. But then, there's Web Assembly which will provide a path for all languages to replace JS in the browser and in Node.js. Sigh. -- Owen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Applets · NetLogo/NetLogo Wiki
“Having said that well I for one can only speculate why java has/had a history of not caching on” Wot? http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html Btw, Web Assembly is just mimicking what .NET (and Mono) have been able to do for 10 years. From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Gillian Densmore Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 7:35 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Applets · NetLogo/NetLogo Wiki . Though I am amused how the web has managed to go full circle. Why do I say that, it seems as if the goal to applets and node is simillar to: DHTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_HTML DHTML, was ahead it's time because you could make pages yes even those, the ones that beeped-to what became known as a blog. They also seem to want to get things running in the browser like MS bugy gem's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActiveX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 7:14 PM, Gillian Densmore gil.densm...@gmail.commailto:gil.densm...@gmail.com wrote: One could say: thise.Day(Pine) print.out(arg YANFL); but the joke might not compile. On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Parks, Raymond rcpa...@sandia.govmailto:rcpa...@sandia.gov wrote: In my case, I was asked to help the Comptrollers (Air Force speak for accountants) to optimize the code because they were using an IBM emulator on a Honeywell 6800 and their APL programs were bogging down the entire system. Oh, what tangled web we create, when first we try to emulate - or, perhaps, there was another fine mess they got me into. Ray Parks Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer V: 505-844-4024tel:505-844-4024 M: 505-238-9359tel:505-238-9359 P: 505-951-6084tel:505-951-6084 NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.govmailto:rcpa...@sandia.gov SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.govmailto:rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder) JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.govmailto:dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder) On Jul 13, 2015, at 4:33 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: I programmed in APL while at Xerox in the 70's. Although dangerous it was really fast to program in, especially as a domain specific language, so to speak. It got so that if you couldn't do a one-liner for anything you wanted to do, you'd be disappointed! Interestingly enough, it was the Finance dept of Xerox that first started using it, and then it leaked into the labs where it went viral. SmallTalk was sorta the same, really great but hard to deploy initially, but really loved in the labs. -- Owen On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Parks, Raymond rcpa...@sandia.govmailto:rcpa...@sandia.gov wrote: It's analagous to pets - you raise them (sometimes) from bottle-feeding and they live to old age - and they die long before you are ready. Sure, there are the occasional turtles and parrots that outlive their owners - COBOL has long outlived Grace Hopper - but most computer languages come and go within their authors and certainly users professional lifetimes. Sometimes you babysit somebody else's pet while they're on vacation or something - the other thread on the cube comic points this out - only a few of us have ever worked with SNOBOL (and we probably didn't like it that much). I started with Algol, moved on to COBOL, assembled various flavours, did some Fortran (various flavours), then CMS II (a regression), C, C++, Java (swore at Grady), and then a succession of scripting languages (none of which have stuck). My strangest language experience was A Programming Language (APL) - oh the damage one can do in almost no code. Ray Parks Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer V: 505-844-4024tel:505-844-4024 M: 505-238-9359tel:505-238-9359 P: 505-951-6084tel:505-951-6084 NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.govmailto:rcpa...@sandia.gov SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.govmailto:rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder) JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.govmailto:dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder) On Jul 11, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: This is sorta sad: https://github.com/NetLogo/NetLogo/wiki/Applets Applets: They're dead Jim. Sad mainly from a history standpoint: Java built a really fascinating cross platform, VM based, language libraries. JS is now the current winner. But then, there's Web Assembly which will provide a path for all languages to replace JS in the browser and in Node.js. Sigh. -- Owen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets
Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Applets · NetLogo/NetLogo Wiki
Having said that well I for one can only speculate why java has/had a history of not caching on. Though I am amused how the web has managed to go full circle. Why do I say that, it seems as if the goal to applets and node is simillar to: DHTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_HTML DHTML, was ahead it's time because you could make pages yes even those, the ones that beeped-to what became known as a blog. They also seem to want to get things running in the browser like MS bugy gem's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActiveX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 7:14 PM, Gillian Densmore gil.densm...@gmail.com wrote: One could say: thise.Day(Pine) print.out(arg YANFL); but the joke might not compile. On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Parks, Raymond rcpa...@sandia.gov wrote: In my case, I was asked to help the Comptrollers (Air Force speak for accountants) to optimize the code because they were using an IBM emulator on a Honeywell 6800 and their APL programs were bogging down the entire system.Oh, what tangled web we create, when first we try to emulate - or, perhaps, there was another fine mess they got me into. Ray Parks Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer V: 505-844-4024 M: 505-238-9359 P: 505-951-6084 NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder) JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder) On Jul 13, 2015, at 4:33 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: I programmed in APL while at Xerox in the 70's. Although dangerous it was really fast to program in, especially as a domain specific language, so to speak. It got so that if you couldn't do a one-liner for anything you wanted to do, you'd be disappointed! Interestingly enough, it was the Finance dept of Xerox that first started using it, and then it leaked into the labs where it went viral. SmallTalk was sorta the same, really great but hard to deploy initially, but really loved in the labs. -- Owen On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Parks, Raymond rcpa...@sandia.gov wrote: It's analagous to pets - you raise them (sometimes) from bottle-feeding and they live to old age - and they die long before you are ready. Sure, there are the occasional turtles and parrots that outlive their owners - COBOL has long outlived Grace Hopper - but most computer languages come and go within their authors and certainly users professional lifetimes. Sometimes you babysit somebody else's pet while they're on vacation or something - the other thread on the cube comic points this out - only a few of us have ever worked with SNOBOL (and we probably didn't like it that much). I started with Algol, moved on to COBOL, assembled various flavours, did some Fortran (various flavours), then CMS II (a regression), C, C++, Java (swore at Grady), and then a succession of scripting languages (none of which have stuck). My strangest language experience was A Programming Language (APL) - oh the damage one can do in almost no code. Ray Parks Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer V: 505-844-4024 M: 505-238-9359 P: 505-951-6084 NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder) JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder) On Jul 11, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: This is sorta sad: https://github.com/NetLogo/NetLogo/wiki/Applets Applets: They're dead Jim. Sad mainly from a history standpoint: Java built a really fascinating cross platform, VM based, language libraries. JS is now the current winner. But then, there's Web Assembly which will provide a path for all languages to replace JS in the browser and in Node.js. Sigh. -- Owen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
[FRIAM] speculative Q
Speculative Q: Anyone care to speculate why Open Source apps not have gotten much traction out side some exceptions? I ask because it'd seem like a business wouldn't want to use something where they couldn't see the code (for instance). FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
